How Bad Is This For Georgetown?

[Golden Avalanche]

    Altogether a  more pleasant view than the colonscape you inhabit

   anyone can play the name game but it doesn't advance anyone's ideas.

Weird, I don't even know who you are. Not sure I've ever interacted with you. Have no time for losers! Only like winners! I win! I win so much people get jealous of my winning! You don't how that feels. Sad!

[forgetful]

+1

[TilTuesday]

All I've heard that Georgetown is officially doing is offering preferential admission to the descendants -- just treating them as legacies.  Has it been announced yet that they're actually doing anything else?  Sure, they might respond to the request for foundation (and potential pressure to do so), but I haven't heard yet that they will.  I think they are being pretty deliberate in this, and that if they were inclined to offer financial assistance that would have been part of the announcement they made a week or two ago.

The plan is for preferential admission and full cost of attendance by way of special endowed scholarships, according to one professor.  Seems to me that the school should also look to the descendants of those that risked their lives so their fellow man could be free, and ultimately have the ability to attend a university like Georgetown.  Take the free admission aspect out of it for a moment, perhaps merely the same preferential admission criteria to the young men and women of union soldiers is in order, too. 

Union soldiers across the river from Georgetown University, 1861

[rocket surgeon]

"Gif of some celebrity clapping whilst smiling"

Well there you have it!  It ain't legit until a kardashian or a decraprio endorses it, Eyn'a?

[GGGG]

The plan is for preferential admission and full cost of attendance by way of special endowed scholarships, according to one professor.  Seems to me that the school should also look to the descendants of those that risked their lives so their fellow man could be free, and ultimately have the ability to attend a university like Georgetown.  Take the free admission aspect out of it for a moment, perhaps merely the same preferential admission criteria to the young men and women of union soldiers is in order, too. 

Chicos, you once again have done what you always do.  Shift the goalposts.

First, your "idea" is completely irrelevant to the issue.  Georgetown was found to profit from slavery by accepting slaves as a donation and profiting from them.  This has nothing to do with the Civil War or union soldiers.

Second, if someone wants to create an endowed scholarship so that the decendants of union soldiers can attend the school, they are free to do so.  In fact a number already exist.

http://www.suvcw.org/?page_id=807

https://bigfuture.collegeboard.org/scholarships/grand-armyofthe-republic-living-memorial-scholarship

https://www.scholarships.com/financial-aid/college-scholarships/scholarships-by-type/veteran-scholarships/daughters-of-union-veterans-of-the-civil-war/

[Pakuni]

Today I learned that serving in the military, often as a volunteer and always for pay and pension, is comparable to slavery.

[StillAWarrior]

The plan is for preferential admission and full cost of attendance by way of special endowed scholarships, according to one professor.

What professor?  Where has this been reported?  I haven't seen it.  It would not particularly surprise me if this -- or something similar -- ultimately happens, but I don't understand why Georgetown would have very publicly announced that they were going to give admissions preferences and change the name of a couple buildings, but keep this much bigger benefit a secret.

Obviously, one of the challenges of offering financial aid to a group of "descendants" is the exponential growth of that group.

[TilTuesday]

What professor?  Where has this been reported?  I haven't seen it.  It would not particularly surprise me if this -- or something similar -- ultimately happens, but I don't understand why Georgetown would have very publicly announced that they were going to give admissions preferences and change the name of a couple buildings, but keep this much bigger benefit a secret.

Obviously, one of the challenges of offering financial aid to a group of "descendants" is the exponential growth of that group.

I believe it was David Collins, SJ who said (perhaps his own personal opinion) that we need to do more, endow scholarships for these people.  Let me circle back and find it. 

It could have also been Professor Brown (Dorothy or Debra?), who is a Georgetown almunus and professor at Emory (I think), who demanded that what Georgetown was not nearly enough.  Basically demanded a lot of money for each person, scholarships, and more.  She was on CNN and extremely vocal about it.

If it was the latter, than please accept my apologies.  If it was Collins, I'm sure he was saying if it was up to him we would do more and not an official Georgetown policy.

[TilTuesday]

Today I learned that serving in the military, often as a volunteer and always for pay and pension, is comparable to slavery.

If that is what you learned, perfectly fine.  I learned that an institution was trying in some fashion to make amends for something they felt needed to be amended.  Of course serving in the military in the 1860's wasn't exactly an opportunity to be All You Can Be. 

Slavery is a blight on our country's history.  My suspicion is that as guilty as some people feel about things from hundreds of years ago, it will continue to go on and on.  Then, if we believe it to be the blight that it is and in need of continual repairs, we should acknowledge the bravery it took to end it.  People lost their lives, their families, their fortunes in the battle for freedom.  They, too, sacrificed ultimately for people they didn't even know.  It would complete the circle, help with healing, to acknowledge those sacrifices as well.  Georgetown would no have existed, some claim, if not for selling slaves.  There are other historians that will tell you Georgetown would not have existed if it were not for the North's victory in the Civil War, too. 

[Pakuni]

If that is what you learned, perfectly fine.  I learned that an institution was trying in some fashion to make amends for something they felt needed to be amended.  Of course serving in the military in the 1860's wasn't exactly an opportunity to be All You Can Be. 

Slavery is a blight on our country's history.  My suspicion is that as guilty as some people feel about things from hundreds of years ago, it will continue to go on and on.  Then, if we believe it to be the blight that it is and in need of continual repairs, we should acknowledge the bravery it took to end it.  People lost their lives, their families, their fortunes in the battle for freedom.  They, too, sacrificed ultimately for people they didn't even know.  It would complete the circle, help with healing, to acknowledge those sacrifices as well.  Georgetown would no have existed, some claim, if not for selling slaves.  There are other historians that will tell you Georgetown would not have existed if it were not for the North's victory in the Civil War, too.

You utterly miss the point.
Let's go over this slowly:

1. Georgetown's actions have nothing to do with the Civil War. They have to do with the university's engagement with (and profit from) the slave trade nearly 25 years before the Civil War.

2. The vast majority of Union soldiers were volunteers who not only were paid for their service, but also received  pensions that were handed down to their families. As recently as 2013, the government was still paying Civil War pensions. Your suggestion is that we compensate the descendants of people who have already been compensated.

3. The notion that we need to acknowledge the bravery that was needed to fight the Civil War is laughable. This country has constantly acknowledged that bravery not only monetarily (via pay, pensions, scholarships), but statues, memorials, monuments, national historic sites, etc., etc. These soldiers have hardly gone unrecognized and their sacrifices were and continue to be acknowledged in many, many ways.

Could you direct me to some of these historians who say the future of Georgetown University was dependent on the outcome of the Civil War?

[Coleman]

You utterly miss the point.
Let's go over this slowly:

1. Georgetown's actions have nothing to do with the Civil War. They have to do with the university's engagement with (and profit from) the slave trade nearly 25 years before the Civil War.

2. The vast majority of Union soldiers were volunteers who not only were paid for their service, but also received  pensions that were handed down to their families. As recently as 2013, the government was still paying Civil War pensions. Your suggestion is that we compensate the descendants of people who have already been compensated.

3. The notion that we need to acknowledge the bravery that was needed to fight the Civil War is laughable. This country has constantly acknowledged that bravery not only monetarily (via pay, pensions, scholarships), but statues, memorials, monuments, national historic sites, etc., etc. These soldiers have hardly gone unrecognized and their sacrifices were and continue to be acknowledged in many, many ways.

Could you direct me to some of these historians who say the future of Georgetown University was dependent on the outcome of the Civil War?

Well said.

[GGGG]

If that is what you learned, perfectly fine.  I learned that an institution was trying in some fashion to make amends for something they felt needed to be amended.  Of course serving in the military in the 1860's wasn't exactly an opportunity to be All You Can Be. 

Slavery is a blight on our country's history.  My suspicion is that as guilty as some people feel about things from hundreds of years ago, it will continue to go on and on.  Then, if we believe it to be the blight that it is and in need of continual repairs, we should acknowledge the bravery it took to end it.  People lost their lives, their families, their fortunes in the battle for freedom.  They, too, sacrificed ultimately for people they didn't even know.  It would complete the circle, help with healing, to acknowledge those sacrifices as well.  Georgetown would no have existed, some claim, if not for selling slaves.  There are other historians that will tell you Georgetown would not have existed if it were not for the North's victory in the Civil War, too. 

Go start a scholarship for descendants of Union soldiers.  Or donate to one that already exists.  No one is preventing you from doing that.

[tower912]

Maybe 'TilTuesday' was actually a guess on how long he could go without being banned. 

[StillAWarrior]

I believe it was David Collins, SJ who said (perhaps his own personal opinion) that we need to do more, endow scholarships for these people.  Let me circle back and find it. 

It could have also been Professor Brown (Dorothy or Debra?), who is a Georgetown almunus and professor at Emory (I think), who demanded that what Georgetown was not nearly enough.  Basically demanded a lot of money for each person, scholarships, and more.  She was on CNN and extremely vocal about it.

If it was the latter, than please accept my apologies.  If it was Collins, I'm sure he was saying if it was up to him we would do more and not an official Georgetown policy.

Thanks.  I think we can agree that even if it is Collins, there is a huge difference between his personal opinion and saying that the "plan is for preferential admission and full cost of attendance by way of special endowed scholarships."

I'll be interested to see what you saw once you have a chance to circle back around to it.  Just a couple weeks ago, Collins -- the chair of the Georgetown working group addressing this very issue -- wrote an Op-Ed in the NYT referring to the pending release of the recommendations of the work group that he was leading.  In light of the fact that the Collins-led work group's  "recommendations for how best to acknowledge and recognize the school's historical relationship with slavery" did not include any mention of endowed scholarships, it would seem odd to me that he would be advocating for them in other areas.  It would be a bit of a PR cluster**** if person leading the group responsible for making recommendations on how to address the situation is actually voicing a opinion different than that of the committee he leads.  But, I've seen lots of organizations walk right in to PR cluster****s.  That said, the report the committee issued suggests there could be additional recommendations in the future.  Perhaps there is a longer term plan and scholarships will be recommended at a later date.  I suppose I can conceive or reasons to handle it this way.

And if it is not Collins, but is another Georgetown professor advocating for endowed scholarships...well I suspect you can find professors on every college campus in America who would advocate for endowed scholarships for one aggrieved group or another.  This also would be far, far different than your original claim that there is a "plan is for...full cost of attendance by way of special endowed scholarships."

At present, I've seen nothing at all that leads me to believe that such a plan exists.  In fact, the things I've read and seen seem to suggest that there is no such plan.  But that doesn't mean there isn't such a plan or won't be one in the future.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I'll be interested to see what you saw once you have a chance to circle back around to it. 

You may see this but it will be under some sort of new screen name

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52289.msg859605#new

[StillAWarrior]

You may see this but it will be under some sort of new screen name

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=52289.msg859605#new

Truth be told, I wasn't exactly holding my breath.