STOG

[Da 'Lanche]

Great to see that type of game by Davante.   He is SOTG with a great counter to "God's Gift" (who, by the way, would have looked absolutely wonderful in a Marquette uniform!)

[DCWarriors04]

Ox's defense wasn't great in the first half, but how much of that can be attributed to the fact that Crowder, DJO, and Wilson were on the bench for most of the 1st half with foul trouble.

Also, DJO got hot in the second half when St Johns began to tire.

[NersEllenson]

DJO had a solid game, great passing game to go along with the points. Van also played a very good game, solid D, fantastic facilitating, and picked his spots well in terms of taking shots. Crowder seemed quiet as a mouse at times, yet in DJO fashion managed to finish with a great line, 15 points, 9 rebounds, and 4 steals.

But let's be honest...this one is a no-brainer. 22 and 15? Awesome game from Ox. His defense lacked in the first half and he was the primary reason Achiuwa had 13 at the break. Thankfully, he tightened that up in the second half and didn't spend so much time doubling guys beyond the three-point line. Gardner is the SOTG and deserves to be smoking a STOGie.

Van had 5 points and 3 turnovers in 26 minutes - but his 5 assists probably were a career high.  How do you reconcile Gardner being able to play 34 minutes tonight Brew, after your summer long..and fall long campaign telling us he could only play spot minutes, and wasn't capable of playing more than 15-18 minutes per game with diminishing returns?  Looked like he elevated and got down the court pretty well on that dunk late in the 2nd half...just sayin...

[AZWarrior]

DG - a powerful center who is capable of running the floor with a great offensive and rebounding performance.   

[DCWarriors04]

It's too bad that fast break dunk wasn't like this...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sqSwZgpOad8...maybe then everyone would be on board for the Ox.

[GGGG]

Van had 5 points and 3 turnovers in 26 minutes - but his 5 assists probably were a career high.  How do you reconcile Gardner being able to play 34 minutes tonight Brew, after your summer long..and fall long campaign telling us he could only play spot minutes, and wasn't capable of playing more than 15-18 minutes per game with diminishing returns?  Looked like he elevated and got down the court pretty well on that dunk late in the 2nd half...just sayin...

This is what makes you so obnoxious - constantly calling people out who have disagreed with you even once.  Brew just said it was a "no-brainer"..."awesome"...  

But instead of being happy that a guy you have been in on from the beginning had a big game, you have to use this opportunity to right some perceived wrong.  Seriously, grow up.  This isn't middle school.

[CTWarrior]

Part of the reason his D sucked though was because he was hedging out so high.  Buzz seemed to pull him back in the second half cause I only remember seeing him out there a couple times.

Agree 100%.  When he hedges he takes forever to get back.

[LA]

Van had 5 points and 3 turnovers in 26 minutes - but his 5 assists probably were a career high. 

Vander had 5 against SU and 6 against GU. He had 7 iirc in a game earlier this season...thanks for playing though.

[NersEllenson]

(your post has been deleted)

Mod Edit: We have a language filter for a reason. We realize you can circumvent these filters by replacing a vowel with cute dollar signs and explanation points, but please don't.

[brewcity77]

Van had 5 points and 3 turnovers in 26 minutes - but his 5 assists probably were a career high.  How do you reconcile Gardner being able to play 34 minutes tonight Brew, after your summer long..and fall long campaign telling us he could only play spot minutes, and wasn't capable of playing more than 15-18 minutes per game with diminishing returns?  Looked like he elevated and got down the court pretty well on that dunk late in the 2nd half...just sayin...

Have you ever watched Van with an objective eye? 5 assists isn't his career high. He had 5 assists in his first game ever for Marquette. His career high is 7, and he's had 6 on two other occasions this year. He also has had a MINIMUM of 5 assists in his past 3 games.

As far as Gardner, great game by him tonight. He did a great job handling the minutes, but I still doubt he could do that game in and game out. If you look at the first 16 games of the season, I think that my feelings are fairly well supported in terms of diminishing returns. Before tonight, he had 10 games when he played <20 minutes and 6 games when he played 21+ minutes. Here are the averages:

<20: 13.7 mpg, 3.8 rpg, 7.3 ppg, 61.1% from the field
21+: 26.7 mpg, 6.8 rpg, 11 ppg, 57.4% from the field

At a glance, it looks like everything is better, right? Wrong. Gardner's rebounds are only down from 11.1 per 40 minutes to 10.2 per 40, but his scoring is down from 21.3 per 40 minutes to 16.5 per 40, and his shooting percentage is lower. He's still playing better than I expected considering the minutes, but he's still more efficient in shorter stretches. I think that in the long run, however, this will be very good for us as a team. Otule is still the starter when he gets back, but my guess is next year they probably split time closer to 50/50, and it wouldn't surprise me at all now to start seeing Gardner and Otule on the court together. I'd much rather Gardner were in a position to play 15-20 mpg, but in the coming years, the necessity to play 20+ at times will definitely be a benefit to our team.

10 games 137 minutes 38 rebs 73 pts 22/36
7 games 160 mins 41 rebs 66 pts 27/47

[GGGG]

Notice how both you and Brew tried to diss Devante's defense in your posts, and had to compliment Blue for such an all around great floor game, solid D, etc...just to try (albeit ridiculously) to validate your positions on how valuable Vander is to the team.  

1. I was actually sticking up for Gardner's defense by saying that he was forced to hedge out way too high given the scheme they were playing.  Not many centers can get back from that far out in time.  Buzz seemed to make changes in the second half.

2. I never once brought up Vander in regards to this game.  

Other than that, you are right on.  

[GGGG]

Have you ever watched Van with an objective eye? 5 assists isn't his career high. He had 5 assists in his first game ever for Marquette. His career high is 7, and he's had 6 on two other occasions this year. He also has had a MINIMUM of 5 assists in his past 3 games.

As far as Gardner, great game by him tonight. He did a great job handling the minutes, but I still doubt he could do that game in and game out. If you look at the first 16 games of the season, I think that my feelings are fairly well supported in terms of diminishing returns. Before tonight, he had 10 games when he played <20 minutes and 6 games when he played 21+ minutes. Here are the averages:

<20: 13.7 mpg, 3.8 rpg, 7.3 ppg, 61.1% from the field
21+: 26.7 mpg, 6.8 rpg, 11 ppg, 57.4% from the field

At a glance, it looks like everything is better, right? Wrong. Gardner's rebounds are only down from 11.1 per 40 minutes to 10.2 per 40, but his scoring is down from 21.3 per 40 minutes to 16.5 per 40, and his shooting percentage is lower. He's still playing better than I expected considering the minutes, but he's still more efficient in shorter stretches.

I also will point out that Gardner will likely not be guarded by a 6'8" center in Auchiwa for the rest of the BE year.

[brewcity77]

Sure Sultan..will do...You know I've never beat my chest around here about being right about quite a few things in advance of there outcome..but feel it is necessary now:   Such as Buzz being the real deal, Gardner having game, guaranteeing MU would beat Wisconsin, that we are close to being an Elite 8 type of program, etc...all the while taking <expletive deleted> from guys like you...who tell others to "grow up."  

Notice how both you and Brew tried to diss Devante's defense in your posts, and had to compliment Blue for such an all around great floor game, solid D, etc...just to try (albeit ridiculously) to validate your positions on how valuable Vander is to the team.   Not being able to admit you are wrong is at minimum equally grade school...as what I posted.  I'm just asking Brew to explain his thoughts on how Gardner could go 34 minutes, after 9 months of telling me/the board he is a 15-18 minute a game guy who can only be successful in favorable matchup situations...

Vander has potential, Buzz is doing everything he can to instill confidence in Van - which is exactly what Van needs.  At this rate I don't see any way Vander ever averages more than 12-14ppg, 6 rebound, 5 assist guy in the Big East even as a senior.  Vander will end up being a solid player at MU when his career is all said and done...but that's about it.  It is clear that just watching the game that Mayo and Harrison from St. John's have a good deal more game than Van....

You know, Ners, I used to think that you were quite often the victim of some rough treatment from CBB. But honestly, I think I was simply blinded by your overwhelming positivity. Now I see it for what it is. You are just as bad as Chicos ever was. Christ, I talk up what a great game DG had, I praise him, and all you can do is note that I am honest enough to call out the deficiencies in his game (Achiuwa made Gardner his bitch on their offensive end just as often as DG did it to him when we had the ball) and give credit to Vander for a solid game.

FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, I SAID THAT GARDNER WAS A NO-BRAINER!

He had the game of his life, I acknowledged it, and you still nitpick at me. Christ, just because I disagree with you on which center is more valuable, you have to attack every single goddamn post I ever make. You are like a 6-year old who was told he was wrong. Every single chance you have to poke back, you have to point your finger and say "Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah!!!" It's pathetic. While people like Chicos and hoopaloop and MuggsyB bring boards down with their negativity, you do it just as much, if not more so, with your constant needling, pot-stirring, and all this passive-aggressive crap that (eventually) just turns into aggressive.

There is no other member on any MU message board I have encountered that does more to ruin the board as a whole. It's baffling that they didn't ban you when they shipped Chicos. The truth is you're worse than he is, but because you are constantly propping the team up, you get away with it.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Van had 5 points and 3 turnovers in 26 minutes - but his 5 assists probably were a career high.  How do you reconcile Gardner being able to play 34 minutes tonight Brew, after your summer long..and fall long campaign telling us he could only play spot minutes, and wasn't capable of playing more than 15-18 minutes per game with diminishing returns?  Looked like he elevated and got down the court pretty well on that dunk late in the 2nd half...just sayin...

DG had a great game tonight!

But, to be fair, he is averaging 18min. per game. Let's not get carried away, Ners.

[mu_hilltopper]

aaaaaaaaand we're done here.   

Give it a rest guys.  We won tonight.

[MU82]

Hey, you two ... do I have to turn the car around right now?

[Markusquette]

Sheesh, guys.

[Benny B]

This is what happens when you mess up acronyms.

[UticaBusBarn]

The big guy, with the grin of a fox, gets it hands down.