Worst coached team in the conference. Period.

[NersEllenson]

So  what is the difference between Buzz being in the Sun Belt and the others being in MVC or Horizon? Buzz came from the Sun Belt and is recruiting at his current level. Why would those qualified coaches from the MVC or Horizon not be able to recruit at that level

Let's see how the MU team looks in 2 years - with Blue, Jones, Otule, Gardner, Jamil Wilson, Cadougan and Erik Williams having been in the program for 3-4 years.  I like their chances for competing at a high level in the Big East.

[groove]

Let's see how the MU team looks in 2 years - with Blue, Jones, Otule, Gardner, Jamil Wilson, Cadougan and Erik Williams having been in the program for 3-4 years.  I like their chances for competing at a high level in the Big East.

Yeah I agree lets take a look then. You are optimistic, fine. I think Otule has improved greatly over the last two months. Gardner has potential but needs to lose weight, get in condition.  I would be optimistic with them. Williams has not been able to get off the bench in two years and there are no signs that he is getting better. Jones, none of us have seen enough of to make a judgement. Cadougan looks like he will be a good back-up point guard. Wilson averaged 4 points a game as a freshman at oregon. How much Blue improves will be a big key in how well this team does in the next two years. For me that doesn't add up to a lot of optimism. I also don't see a stubborn buzz making any adjustments over the season to defensive schemes and he seems over his head a lot. So there are differences of opinions on this board of what the future holds. But if anyone is on the glass half empty side of the argument you want to shout them down and cut off the discussion. Whatever floats your boat dude.

[bamamarquettefan]

There's no denying the fact or defending what we've seen in the last few games. Just awful, clueless, gutless basketball.

We ARE and will continue to be the worst coached team in the Big East. There are teams with less talent behind us in the standings. But given our players, they would also display higher basketball IQ and more hustle than us.

This is also the worst defensive squad seen at Marquette since at least Mike Deane's last couple of teams — or since Dukiet's era at the very least. The proud, tough defensive identity of Marquette basketball built by O'Neill and Crean has been so totally wiped out by this current rube's "paint touches, free throws, just outscore them" idiocy that I'm left dreaming of the day when this Three Stooges reject from Texas takes his sweet tea and barnyard wisdom on to his next victim.

Get upset and sanctimonious, if you choose. Drink the blue and gold kool-aid and pretend the future is bright. But the Buzz honeymoon is over regardless of how this season progresses. Local media is onto him, and so are fans who've been around long enough to know better. The calls for new leadership will begin now with whispers and build consistently now that Crean's properly developed players are gone.

I'll stay a fan and await the inevitable. There will come a new day of proper, well-developed Marquette recruits from major high schools instead of a mishmash of kids not talented or not bright enough to play at a major program out of high school. There will come a day when the high school players we do get are developed properly and put in a position to succeed. There will come a day when this overdressed Boo Radley with a clipboard leads another program to insignificance.

"See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve."

Buzz is worse even than Coach K, Calhoun, Huggins and Brey?

Those are the guys who should be fired.  Average score in those four games was St. John's 84-69, so those four idiots gave up 4 points more to St. John's than Buzz Williams, the worst coach in the conferenence. Period.

[NCMUFan]

Its always easy to see what we don't have than to see what we do have.  The talent level and preparation on this team is really pretty good.  We play in the toughest basketball conference in the USA against the best teams every night.  No margin for error.  One just needs to look at Wake Forest (and the firing of Dino) in regards to fans with unrealistic expectations getting major doses or reality now.  Wake up before you really get to learn the meaning of "door mat".

[NersEllenson]

Its always easy to see what we don't have than to see what we do have.  The talent level and preparation on this team is really pretty good.  We play in the toughest basketball conference in the USA against the best teams every night.  No margin for error.  One just needs to look at Wake Forest (and the firing of Dino) in regards to fans with unrealistic expectations getting major doses or reality now.  Wake up before you really get to learn the meaning of "door mat".

You can add NC State to this list..after their fanbase criticized the hell out of Herb Sendik..and he chose to leave.  Sidney Lowe hasn't quite gotten the job done.

[groove]

You can add NC State to this list..after their fanbase criticized the hell out of Herb Sendik..and he chose to leave.  Sidney Lowe hasn't quite gotten the job done.

Lowe is a complete idiot. Down here in Raleigh it was funny how it seemed the main reason people hated Sendik was because they hated his "boring" offense and his "boring" personality. Never mind that he got them to the sweet 16 with hardly any talent.

[GGGG]

You can add NC State to this list..after their fanbase criticized the hell out of Herb Sendik..and he chose to leave.  Sidney Lowe hasn't quite gotten the job done.

Lowe completely sucks.  But do you honestly think NC State fans are longing for the days of Herb Sendek???  Ask Arizona State fans about what they think of Sendek...

[groove]

Lowe completely sucks.  But do you honestly think NC State fans are longing for the days of Herb Sendek???  Ask Arizona State fans about what they think of Sendek...

No, they are not longing for Sendek. They still hate him. And Sendek has been in a nose dive at Arizona State. But he did seem to have things figured out, at least ow to get to the NCAA every year, at NCST.

[Marquette84]

It is also highly suspect to think MVC/Horizon coaches could recruit at a Big East required level. 

No more suspect than thinking that a Sun Belt coach could recruit at a Big East required level.

In fact, it doesn't take long to develop a list of lower-level coaches who have been able to recruit at a high-major level

Thad Matta's Horizon and A10 experience is proving to be no detriment at Ohio State.
Bo Ryan's Horizon League coaching has resulted in decent success at Wisconsin
Bill Howland's Big Sky experience at Northern Arizona didn't seem to bother his recruiting at Pittsburgh.
Bill Self from the WAC recruited final four talent to Illinois
Matt Painter has recruited just fine at Purdue based on his MVC experience at SIU

Would we really be happy with bringing in coaches like Brownell and Les?? 

No more so than most people were when MU hired an assistant with one year head coaching experience in the Sun Belt.

In fact, Les (with a recent Sweet 16 and three straight 20+ win seasons at Bradley) and Brownell (getting both UNC-Wilmington and Wright State to the NCAA) probably would have led to less grumbling than Buzz did.

And I would suggest that they would have easily duplicated Buzz's results. 

What have they accomplished? Why would Stallings leave Vandy for MU?  What upside does MU offer that Vandy does not?

Maybe a 20% pay raise. More prestigious conference.  After a decade taken Vandy as far as he could. Better facilities. Chance to become the dean of the conference when Boeheim, Calhoun and Calipari retire.   I don't know--a host of possible reasons.  We'll never know because he was never considered.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Maybe a 20% pay raise. More prestigious conference.  After a decade taken Vandy as far as he could. Better facilities. Chance to become the dean of the conference when Boeheim, Calhoun and Calipari retire.   I don't know--a host of possible reasons.  We'll never know because he was never considered.

A bummer, too.  He was in my top two for MU back in 2007 when speculation of Crean to Kentucky came up. 

"If it's Crean {to Kentucky}, MU then has to hire a coach when we don't even have an Athletic Director....not good.

Majerus is the easy fall back and would at least hold things together short term, but is he willing to get out there and recruit?  He better hire an incredible recruiter.

If not Majerus, I would love to make a play on Stallings who may finally feel the need to get out of Vanderbilt (especially with the SEC the way it is and Tennessee coming on strong in his own state)."

[Lennys Tap]

A bummer, too.  He was in my top two for MU back in 2007 when speculation of Crean to Kentucky came up. 

Who was on your list in April of 2008 when we actually needed a coach? After Bennett and Miller declined interviews, iirc the names mentioned were McKillop, Lowery, Grant and Keno Davis - all guys with less credentials than Stallings. If he had any interest I think MU would have at least given him a look.

[alexius23]

For the first time since Mike Deane I am losing faith in a team & it's coach

[nyg]

Who was on your list in April of 2008 when we actually needed a coach? After Bennett and Miller declined interviews, iirc the names mentioned were McKillop, Lowery, Grant and Keno Davis - all guys with less credentials than Stallings. If he had any interest I think MU would have at least given him a look.

Wasn't there a poll back then?  I remember I voted for Grant, then the "shocking" hire of Buzz happened shortly after.

[rocky_warrior]

Wasn't there a poll back then?  I remember I voted for Grant, then the "shocking" hire of Buzz happened shortly after.

Yup, looks like those that haven't already can still vote too.  hah!

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8236.0

[NersEllenson]

No more suspect than thinking that a Sun Belt coach could recruit at a Big East required level.

In fact, it doesn't take long to develop a list of lower-level coaches who have been able to recruit at a high-major level

Thad Matta's Horizon and A10 experience is proving to be no detriment at Ohio State.
Bo Ryan's Horizon League coaching has resulted in decent success at Wisconsin
Bill Howland's Big Sky experience at Northern Arizona didn't seem to bother his recruiting at Pittsburgh.
Bill Self from the WAC recruited final four talent to Illinois
Matt Painter has recruited just fine at Purdue based on his MVC experience at SIU


No more so than most people were when MU hired an assistant with one year head coaching experience in the Sun Belt.

In fact, Les (with a recent Sweet 16 and three straight 20+ win seasons at Bradley) and Brownell (getting both UNC-Wilmington and Wright State to the NCAA) probably would have led to less grumbling than Buzz did.

And I would suggest that they would have easily duplicated Buzz's results. 


Maybe a 20% pay raise. More prestigious conference.  After a decade taken Vandy as far as he could. Better facilities. Chance to become the dean of the conference when Boeheim, Calhoun and Calipari retire.   I don't know--a host of possible reasons.  We'll never know because he was never considered.

Decent points you make here - though I don't agree Stallings owuld hve jumped at the chance to come to MU - even if for more money.  Whatever the case, one thing always rings true in your posts - for whatever reason...you are hell bent on criticizing Buzz.  Why? 

[Marquette84]

Decent points you make here - though I don't agree Stallings owuld hve jumped at the chance to come to MU - even if for more money.  Whatever the case, one thing always rings true in your posts - for whatever reason...you are hell bent on criticizing Buzz.  Why? 

What do you consider criticism?  

Pointing out that Buzz came from the Sun Belt?  That's not a criticism of Buzz--it's a criticism of YOU for making the stupid statement that a coach from a low level conference can't recruit Big East quality players.

For suggesting that Les or Brownell probably could have achieved the same results with Lazar, the Amigos, etc.?  Sorry--that's not a criticism of Buzz either.  Les took an arguably less talented team to a Sweet 16.  Brownell did well with FAR less talented teams at Wright State and UNC-Wilmington.  

For pointing out that Buzz wasn't the only coach in America willing to take the lousy MU job? Sorry--that's your revisionist history. The truth is that the MU administration was extremely high on Buzz, offering him 3rd (after Miller and Bennett), without even considering anyone else.

Too bad you haven't looked at the posts from around the time Buzz was hired, because I was the first to defend his hiring--one of the few to do so at the time. And I gave him credit each of the past two years for keeping MU at the level of play in the Big East that we were at each of our first three years in the conference.