Third Season Verdict

[Lennys Tap]

Especially when in your mind you categorize "the vast majority" (your words) of comments by some posters as negative which is comical and categorically false.  I'd love to know what isn't negative the way you paint so many posts as having negative intent. 

As explained in a post to which you never replied to, my words were and are accurate.

[mviale]

I certainly didn't come up with this theory, but I've seen it hold up in both college basketball and college football. The third season is often a major indicator of where a coach and a program are headed — or what they already are. This third season will serve that purpose for MU.

It's far from over, but this measuring stick campaign is not promising. As MU moves through Buzz Williams's third go-around, the positives are...

His teams are tough. They don't quit and are difficult to put away. The offense is based on aggressive, high-percentage scoring. He can recruit quick athletes to drive that system.

But, he is not a strong defensive coach. The long-held Marquette tradition of outstanding, shut down defense is dead. No team is made uncomfortable against MU. It is not difficult to score on a Buzz Williams team — nor is it difficult to grab offensive rebounds against MU.  The teams are so obsessed with transition and paint touches, they forget to protect their own rim.

When you add in the bizarre recruiting shenanigans we see every year, (speaking as just one fan who's been going to games since 1974) I don't like where this program is headed right now, but I hope all of Buzz's platitudes and his faith prove me very wrong.

 
How is Mr Crean doing so far into his 3rd season?  Based on last nights performance, I am seeing good progress at MU.

[El Duderino]

 
How is Mr Crean doing so far into his 3rd season?  Based on last nights performance, I am seeing good progress at MU.

I don't buy much into this third year verdict theory for any college coach because context needs to be used when evaluating the job that any coach is doing, not just randomly picking the third season. Crean being an example of that and i'm not big fan of his after how he left MU.

When any college coach takes over the head coaching job of a program, that coach is taking over his own unique situation. The tradition of that school. What the roster looks like that the new coach is taking over. What the scholarship grid looks like.

Various factors can play a big role in why a new coach wins or loses during the first year or two, but then does better or worse in year three.

Unless a coach is just flat out terrible for say his first three years and his recruiting classes show little reason to have hope that the future can get significantly better, i think five years is a better evaluation point. By then, that coach will have coached both players he initially inherited and many of his recruits will have had time to develop and play under that coaches system.

So if by year five the program under a coach hasn't had much success on the court and the recruiting has also been mediocre to poor, then it's time to either get rid of that coach or inform him that he's now on paper thin ice. None of that fits Buzz for me so far to then believe that he's in way over his head, thus i have no problem with showing him some patience with this year unless it becomes a trend going forward into year 4 and 5.

[mviale]

I agree with 5 years.  If Buzz cannot make the NCAAs in 2011 and 2012, he will be asked to move on.

[ChicosBailBonds]

BS.  The F500 analogy is ridiculous...I'm just going to leave that one alone.

On to you then claiming Buzz should expect to deal with critical people....absolutely, but if important people within the program are critical, they better have a good plan in place prior to going too far in that direction. 

In a bit of irony, tonight on ESPN radio they were talking about coaching performances in college football and the NFL.  They were interviewing Patterson of TCU and the question came up who is accountable for a team...the players, the coaches, etc?  Here was the answer

"It all falls on the coach, no different than a CEO of a Fortune 500 company" 

Loved it.  Wish they had TiVo radio so I could have saved it.  LOL

[ChicosBailBonds]

Name drop all you want, the fact is that Crean was recruiting jucos and signing them right from the start. This jibes with indee's inside sources' "facts" but not with yours.

As for Crean getting extra money and years color me unsurprised. He was and I guess remains the undisputed champ of using phony leverage to extort years and money out of institutions run by people thought to smart enough to know better.

As for my tremendous wood, I guess I should feel complimented, but your fixation with it and with "sucking johnsons" just creeps me out.

You would be wrong, but then that's a natural patter for you.  Perhaps a New Year's resolution you could work on...trying to be more right.

[ChicosBailBonds]

As explained in a post to which you never replied to, my words were and are accurate.

Nope, and this will be revealed in a few days that not only were your words not accurate, they aren't even remotely CLOSE to being accurate.   LOL.  You'll see why and the joke will be on you.  I asked if there were any auditors on this board (on the superbar) because I was sick of your ridiculous comments and outright lies.  As somewhat of a joke I asked if they could do what they do in their normal, everyday jobs, and validate your ridiculous claims.  Several PM'd me and one volunteered to take up the mantle of seeing if your statement was true.  Of course it wasn't, which I knew.  It wasn't even close.  Of course, that's also where it comes into "what is negative" which is why I laughed at your earlier post tonight.  One guy could say cherry ice cream and depending who the poster is, you would label it negative.  That's why it's good to have someone independent on this.

So sorry Lenny, your posts on that subject were ridiculous, dead wrong (or in your terms...definitely INACCURATE).  The best part about it, I didn't have to do any of the work to prove it.  LOL.  I believe he is posting the finalized results tomorrow or Sunday.  Happy New Year...it's always fun to deal with someone like you.  It really is.   

[avid1010]

In a bit of irony, tonight on ESPN radio they were talking about coaching performances in college football and the NFL.  They were interviewing Patterson of TCU and the question came up who is accountable for a team...the players, the coaches, etc?  Here was the answer

"It all falls on the coach, no different than a CEO of a Fortune 500 company" 

Loved it.  Wish they had TiVo radio so I could have saved it.  LOL

I didn't see it as you talking CEO's...the way you made it sound you were comparing the pressures you have at work to the pressures Buzz faces.

[NersEllenson]

Especially when in your mind you categorize "the vast majority" (your words) of comments by some posters as negative which is comical and categorically false.  I'd love to know what isn't negative the way you paint so many posts as having negative intent. 

Pretty ironic as usual Chicos - when you make the above post..and then make this below post (less than 4 hours after posting the above) in the Poor Maymon and Tenn thread - you just make yourself look like a complete tool.

"Can you imagine any coaching staff buying into Tim Maymon and signing his kid....oh wait."

No negative intent here Chicos??  Please spare all of us yet another feeble attempt to backtrack from stupid comments you make, and your continued hypocrisy.  I really was hoping you'd change your ways for 2011, but it looks like more of the same.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yeah, we wouldn't want kids who were brought into this country by their parents to be able to earn citizenship by completing two years of college or serving in our military for two years.  Happy New Year.

I'm ok with that part, it's the other parts of the legislation like rewarding someone for breaking the law I have problems with.  Or pushing these kids to the head of the line over people that didn't break the law from the start.  But generally speaking, I'm not against it...you can't pick your parents.

Until they secure the borders, however, no dice.  Let the folks in charge show they are actually going to, ahem, FOLLOW THE LAW and ENFORCE IT.  Then we can talk about more goodies and giveaways. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Pretty ironic as usual Chicos - when you make the above post..and then make this below post (less than 4 hours after posting the above) in the Poor Maymon and Tenn thread - you just make yourself look like a complete tool.

"Can you imagine any coaching staff buying into Tim Maymon and signing his kid....oh wait."

No negative intent here Chicos??  Please spare all of us yet another feeble attempt to backtrack from stupid comments you make, and your continued hypocrisy.  I really was hoping you'd change your ways for 2011, but it looks like more of the same.

Not really....I fully admit that post was negative toward Buzz and we never should have signed the kid in the first place.  Here's the problem Ners, Lenny will take that one post and extrapolate it to mean VAST majority.  The evidence is overwhelmingly contrary to what he's saying.  Thus the irony.

The search function is there for anyone else to do the checking.  The problem is that in Lenny's mind if you're not ringing praised in every post about Buzz, it's automatically deemed negative in his mind.  Of course most posts are neither negative or positive but that little factoid escapes him.  Or, better yer, in some posts there is both praise and criticism and he will focus on ONLY one part, and we all know which part that is.

But rest assured Ners, that post about Buzz recruiting Maymon WAS negative and absolutely intentional.  One of the very FEW negative posts I've had toward Buzz and the data proves it out.

Happy New Year.

[Lennys Tap]

Nope, and this will be revealed in a few days that not only were your words not accurate, they aren't even remotely CLOSE to being accurate.   LOL.  You'll see why and the joke will be on you.  I asked if there were any auditors on this board (on the superbar) because I was sick of your ridiculous comments and outright lies.  As somewhat of a joke I asked if they could do what they do in their normal, everyday jobs, and validate your ridiculous claims.  Several PM'd me and one volunteered to take up the mantle of seeing if your statement was true.  Of course it wasn't, which I knew.  It wasn't even close.  Of course, that's also where it comes into "what is negative" which is why I laughed at your earlier post tonight.  One guy could say cherry ice cream and depending who the poster is, you would label it negative.  That's why it's good to have someone independent on this.

So sorry Lenny, your posts on that subject were ridiculous, dead wrong (or in your terms...definitely INACCURATE).  The best part about it, I didn't have to do any of the work to prove it.  LOL.  I believe he is posting the finalized results tomorrow or Sunday.  Happy New Year...it's always fun to deal with someone like you.  It really is.   

For the absolute last possible time. I don't count neutral posts. If you say you liked or didn't like his tie, for example, I don't care. I only care about the ones that are POSITIVE or NEGATIVE. Every squirming post, every DJ Newbill post, every post about his hiring, every post from disgruntled UNO fans or obscure Milwaukee bloggers, etc, etc, etc. You may have even ripped him more often for one loss last year (DePaul) than you've praised him for all of his wins. You've been more negative than positive from the jump, though I have noticed you posting what could be construed as vaguely positive (though tepid at best) items lately. Now that I understand you've assigned one of your toadies to tally up the pro/con posts I understand why.

[Aughnanure]

How dare you guys criticize In Buzz we trust? Even if we have a bad year, which nobody wants,  it should be chalked up as just that-a bad year. There is not any indicator by that. Remember, Buzz led us to the promised land the last two years, even though he was left with a bare cupboard. And it was not his fault that a few of the recruits did not work out like: Roseboro, Smith, Clark, Mbao, Maymon, Newbill, Cadougan, etc.--after all 40 % of D I men's BB players transfer every year. And it is not his fault that MU missed out on all of its top priorities in the early signing period.

We will perservere this year, because the season is not yet half over, we have about 8 top 25 teams on the schedule with whom we will definitely pick up many quality wins, and our rotation is now permanently set. In Buzz we trust!

Do you ever have a point with your sarcastically negative aggressive posts? We get it, you think Buzz should be openly criticized more. Guess what? He is.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Nope, and this will be revealed in a few days that not only were your words not accurate, they aren't even remotely CLOSE to being accurate.   LOL.  You'll see why and the joke will be on you.  I asked if there were any auditors on this board (on the superbar) because I was sick of your ridiculous comments and outright lies.  As somewhat of a joke I asked if they could do what they do in their normal, everyday jobs, and validate your ridiculous claims.  Several PM'd me and one volunteered to take up the mantle of seeing if your statement was true.  Of course it wasn't, which I knew.  It wasn't even close.  Of course, that's also where it comes into "what is negative" which is why I laughed at your earlier post tonight.  One guy could say cherry ice cream and depending who the poster is, you would label it negative.  That's why it's good to have someone independent on this.

So sorry Lenny, your posts on that subject were ridiculous, dead wrong (or in your terms...definitely INACCURATE).  The best part about it, I didn't have to do any of the work to prove it.  LOL.  I believe he is posting the finalized results tomorrow or Sunday.  Happy New Year...it's always fun to deal with someone like you.  It really is.   

Oh my GOD.  you are the most annoying person in the world!  Nobody gives a s**t about this and you actually are going to have someone do an analysis and start a thread about it?  Talk about arrogance.  Talk about narcissism!  Using a board that's supposed to be about MU basdketball to score some petty victory in an argument nobody cares about except you? GET A LIFE!

I for one hope whatever BS thread gets started is removed immediately.  This has NOTHING to do with MU basketball and everything to do with your super-inflated ego. 

[willie warrior]

Do you ever have a point with your sarcastically negative aggressive posts? We get it, you think Buzz should be openly criticized more. Guess what? He is.

Wow--thanks for the tutorial. I did not know "sarcastically" was a word.

[warriorfred]

Interesting thread, but back to the point of discussion, you can judge a coach and the direction of the program after three years.  We'll have a good idea during the heart of the Big East season.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Oh my GOD.  you are the most annoying person in the world!  Nobody gives a s**t about this and you actually are going to have someone do an analysis and start a thread about it?  Talk about arrogance.  Talk about narcissism!  Using a board that's supposed to be about MU basdketball to score some petty victory in an argument nobody cares about except you? GET A LIFE!

I for one hope whatever BS thread gets started is removed immediately.  This has NOTHING to do with MU basketball and everything to do with your super-inflated ego.  

Not really, it has everything to do with correcting a complete liar.  I've let it go for months and months and finally had it.  You can't keep stating a lie for months and months and let it go unanswered.  Nothing to do with ego, everything to do with proving a liar wrong.  Happy New Year.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Not really, it has everything to do with correcting a complete liar.  I've let it go for months and months and finally had it.  You can't keep stating a lie for months and months and let it go unanswered.  Nothing to do with ego, everything to do with proving a liar wrong.  Happy New Year.

Happy New Year to you too. 

Whatever it's about, NOBODY cares except you so please just let it go and let's talk about MU hoops. 

Happy with the win today.  let's hope it's the first of many. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Happy New Year to you too. 

Whatever it's about, NOBODY cares except you so please just let it go and let's talk about MU hoops. 

Happy with the win today.  let's hope it's the first of many. 

I'm happy to drop...have him apologize or rescind his lie and it's over.  Pretty simple.

[ATL MU Warrior]

I'm happy to drop...have him apologize or rescind his lie and it's over.  Pretty simple.

Now you're just being childish

[muarmy81]

Back to the topic...didn't somebody once say that you shouldn't judge a coach until his 5th year?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Now you're just being childish

So is he, but I don't see you attacking him for making ridiculous claims that are false on every level.......