McMurrow And Buzz's Thinking - Should He Think "Position" or "Best Available?"

[muarmy81]

Mufanatic, I think  your best point is the redshirt fact.  Although McMorrow is sitting out the year due to transfer rules we never saw any patience with the old regime.  Granted, our interior coaching was non existent so being patient probably wouldn't have paid off anyway but with a couple of asst coaches with a reputation for developing or at least working with Bigs I'm curious to see how Otule and McMorrow develop and hopefully contribute.  I think we're all a little jaded by the fact that the only real developed Big we saw come thru MU was Ooze.  Like everything Buzz does I think we should wait and see what happens before we jump on his back.  Hopefully it works out and if these 2 bigs develop we'll get a reputation for doing so and we'll start seeing more and more quality bigs take an interest in MU.

[CAINMUTINY]

It should be noted what a tireless worker Ooze was while he was at MU; First in the gym and the last one out.  I also think its unfair to criticize Grimm; The guy was runner up as Mr. Basketball (which by definition means you have to be a damn good bball player)in the state of Michigan and from all accounts Crean seriously messed with his head.  It should be noted that he's averaging somewhere in the neighborhood of 20ppg in a tough league in Switzerland. 

Let's start to realize that we are better by having McMurrow on our team; and if he doesn't work out its no biggie as scholarships are renewed on a yearly basis, that also could be said for Hazel or even for Otule.   

Buzz has done a tremendous job in his first 90 days and we should look forward to seeing what kind of a bench coach his is considering that was creans huge and I mean HUGE flaw; the man couldn't adjust to save his life.

[tower912]

Absolutely right about Grimm, Cain.   He finished 2nd to Paul Davis, who went to MSU and had a very nice career, though he, too, never really reached the heights expected.   Grimm was thought to be every bit as good as Davis.    Didn't quite work out that way.   I had never heard about Crean messing with his head, but it tracks.

[Pakuni]

Absolutely right about Grimm, Cain.   He finished 2nd to Paul Davis, who went to MSU and had a very nice career, though he, too, never really reached the heights expected.   Grimm was thought to be every bit as good as Davis.    Didn't quite work out that way.   I had never heard about Crean messing with his head, but it tracks.

Let's not get crazy.
Paul Davis was a McDonald's All American and rated by Scout the #4 player in the class of 2002.
Chris Grimm was the 24th ranked center in that class and nowhere close to the top 100.
Nobody, and I mean nobody, thought Grimm was every bit as good as Davis, or anywhere near Davis' league.
Also, Chris Grimm finished 8th in Michigan Mr. Baksetball voting, not second.
http://www.peschstats.com/MrBasketball.htm
The revisionist history that goes on around here in an effort to take shots at Crean is ridiculous.

And anybody who thinks Grimm is playing in a "tough" league in Switzerland doesn't know their European basketball very well. The Swiss league is one of the worst in Europe. Not one team in the Swiss league is ranked in the Euro Baskert Top 100. In other words, there are 100 teams in the other European leagues better than the very best team in the Swiss league. Take a look at some of the guys playing in that league:

http://www.eurobasket.com/imports.asp?Cntry=SUI&CntryNbr=57

[CAINMUTINY]

I am happy to admit that I was wrong regarding the information on Grimm; but I stand firmly planted in stating that Crean is a plague and we should all be happy that he is gone.  This is coming from former players and managers that stated that they feared the guy; does that really sound like someone you want as our coach? His transfer rates were abysmal and that is directly correlated to him as a person/coach.

I'm looking forward to seeing Buzz put a good squad together, which he already well on his way to doing

[bma725]

Nobody, and I mean nobody, thought Grimm was every bit as good as Davis, or anywhere near Davis' league.

Not exactly true.  The Ann Arbor News named Grimm the Class A player of the year that year, ahead of Paul Davis.  So at least one person thought Grimm was the better player.

[Pakuni]

Not exactly true.  The Ann Arbor News named Grimm the Class A player of the year that year, ahead of Paul Davis.  So at least one person thought Grimm was the better player.

Or perhaps that is a local award for players in the Ann Arbor area.
For example, when the Chicago Sun-Times does its all area team and names its player of the year, kids from Peoria don't get in on the fun.

[avid1010]

I had never heard about Crean messing with his head, but it tracks.

FWIW, saw it on two occassions in practices...TC would ream him out, call him a know it all, stick him in a one-on-one drill against Wade, then tell him he couldn't stop Wade because he wasn't listening.  Not too many NBA teams could blitz a pick and roll with Wade involved.  I believe Grimm was a frosh at the time...didn't like how TC handled him, but figured TC understood the individuals at hand.

[mviale]

Yes.
The better question is "Are you happy going into the '09-'10 with only one player above 6'7" - and only two post players in all -and with an overload of wings because Scouts, Inc. and Rivals told you so?"

It's mind-boggling how some people are so wrapped up in these star rankings. If MU had a great shot at a five-star player, I could understand it. Certainly there have been dozens of five-star players who've flopped, but more often than not they're good.
But all this hand wringing over three-star guys? Guys rated lower than Chris Grimm (four stars) and Joe Chapman (four stars)? Guys rated the same as Brandon Bell (three stars) and Marcus Jackson (three stars)? Those are the kind of players that have you in a tizzy?
It's bizarre that you're apparently upset that Buzz signed McMorrow over, for example, Shawn Kemp, and the entire basis is that one is a three-star recruit whose name you've previously heard.

Again, I have no idea how good McMorrow will or won't be, but to criticize his commitment because he's not a three-star recruit whose name you know is silly, especially since Scout and Rivals don't rank players at Canadian colleges and I suspect you don't follow the Canadian college leagues all that closely.

I would take another Lazar Hayward at 4 stars

[mviale]

It should be noted what a tireless worker Ooze was while he was at MU; First in the gym and the last one out.  I also think its unfair to criticize Grimm; The guy was runner up as Mr. Basketball (which by definition means you have to be a damn good bball player)in the state of Michigan and from all accounts Crean seriously messed with his head.  It should be noted that he's averaging somewhere in the neighborhood of 20ppg in a tough league in Switzerland. 

Let's start to realize that we are better by having McMurrow on our team; and if he doesn't work out its no biggie as scholarships are renewed on a yearly basis, that also could be said for Hazel or even for Otule.   

Buzz has done a tremendous job in his first 90 days and we should look forward to seeing what kind of a bench coach his is considering that was creans huge and I mean HUGE flaw; the man couldn't adjust to save his life.

  Grimm should have been better at college -wonder why he didnt do well at MU?

[MUDPT]

I know the Chicago Tribune puts out of Chicago area players on its all state team.  The point guard from Decatur? going to Purdue was on their top team.

Anybody that has ever played competitive basketball can see when a player is playing scared.  When I say playing scared, I mean playing "not to screw up."  Grimm was always like that in games.  Always doing what he was told, even if it didn't make sense.  Remember how he used to try and screen the post, when the guy already had the ball? Basically bringing a double team to the post.

[mviale]

Grimm could show moments of greatness too.  Then Crean would pull him - hard to get in a flow when you average under 10 min.

[Pakuni]

Boy, to read this thread one would think that the only thing standing between Chris Grimm and NBA millions was Tom Crean. 

Anyhow, for those of you who don't frequent the Scout board there's a poster over there who says he's seen McMorrow play and offers some insight on him.
One particularly encouraging passage:

"He is a smart young man, quite athletic and healthy, very strong and fairly quick. I like him better right now than I ever liked Courtney Sims (Michigan), for example - although Courtney played quite well against Greg Oden. For one thing, Liam is a big man and he loves it. He is tough, and he knows it."

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415&f=2850&t=2624632&stm=32231897

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=415&f=2850&t=2624632&stm=32354300

[bilsu]

Sometimes you just get good feelings about recruits. Of course I had good feelings about Amoroso, so that does not mean much. I have to say why most posters were worried about him being a wasted scholarship, I have been worried about him going pro early. He is big, strong and agile. There are so few players like that, that he is a rare commodity. The number of 6'11" plus players that MU has had is small. Centers like Butrym were not strong enough. Others were not agile. The only question I have regarding McMorrow is whether he will be an offensive threat. Frankly we do not need a big scorer at center. We need someone to play defense and control the boards. With Otule that gives us 10 fouls at the center position, before we have to drop down to a 6'7" center.

[The Lens]

I have to say why most posters were worried about him being a wasted scholarship, I have been worried about him going pro early. He is big, strong and agile. There are so few players like that, that he is a rare commodity.

In two years it wouldn't surprise me if they we're talking non stop about his hockey and LAX backgrounds making him into a great hoops player.  Those sports require coordination which usually seems to be a big obstacle with big men.  My only question is how good at hockey and LAX was he?

[CAINMUTINY]

Whether or not he was an all-star hockey or lax player is somewhat irrelevant as they are both sports that you don't continue to play for long if you're not somewhat decent. That is most relevant for lax which is a sport that requires a ton of coordination and stamina, and hockey is no slouch.

This team is continuing its momentum that it had prior to crean leaving and I think the only question is Buzz's talent as a bench coach. Give Mike dean all crap about being a poor recruiter as you want, but the guy could flat out coach with half the talent as crean and he hardly if ever got blown out by 47 points.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I would take another Lazar Hayward at 4 stars

Welcome back the this thread.

Can you please clarify your point re: banking the scholarship?

I believe you are saying that you would rather bank the scholarship than sign McMorrow, is that correct?

[tower912]

McMorrow is a big, strong, athletic, raw 7 footer with a mean streak, if you believe the guy bma quoted from the scout board.   16 months to learn big man skills.   I have traded shots with Murf on the other board comparing Liam's background to Olajuwon's.   I don't believe he is the next Olajuwon.   I do believe that this is the kind of recruit we were begging TC to get.   Even better, we have a coaching staff that has developed bigs elsewhere and a philosophy that won't completely eliminate them from the offense.     At worst, we have another 5 fouls from another 7 footer, or a 7 ft Burke.   At best, 2-3 years from now, we will have a bona fide twin tower inside presence.  I really see no downside.   Hell, I would have taken this guy AS IS to lean against the Lopez twins.  

[OneMadWarrior]

I am surprised everyone is so insistent on MU having a PG in the next recruiting class. The way I see it they will have plenty of guards to play a combo like guard which is all they seem to have anyway (James plays more like a combo then a true pg) The truth of the matter is that you never draft/recruit for need. You get the best player you can. If you have enough athletes on your team with enough handle, you can find a guy to help run your offense. Personally I'd rather have a group of big combo guards on my team then a bunch of midgets running around the court at all times.