Looking ahead to the Big East Tournament

[willie warrior]

I'm not bumping any brakes until the season comes to an end. If you cannot dream about the FF this year, when the hell can you?

Dream about it every year.

[bilsu]

Yessir.

I'm not saying I'd hate a BET title. But I won't be even a little disappointed if we lose Friday and our guys are healthy, rested and ready for the NCAA tournament.

I'm planning my entire March around the madness!

Virginia Tech won the ACC tournament last year and lost their first game in NCAA tournament.
Georgetown won the Big East tournament two years ago and lost in their first game in NCAA tournament.

[Scoop Snoop]

Virginia Tech won the ACC tournament last year and lost their first game in NCAA tournament.
Georgetown won the Big East tournament two years ago and lost in their first game in NCAA tournament.

Is there a pattern beyond the 2 examples you provided? One from last year, one from 2 years ago. If you could show a pattern among the 6 major bball conferences over at least several seasons, then I think there would be a point to be made.

[wadesworld]

Virginia Tech won the ACC tournament last year and lost their first game in NCAA tournament.
Georgetown won the Big East tournament two years ago and lost in their first game in NCAA tournament.

Kansas won the Big Twelve Tournament last year. Surely they must've been upset in the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament.

[cheebs09]

I feel like this is in the neighborhood of the it's tough to beat a team 3 times thought.

[BM1090]

Kansas won the Big Twelve Tournament last year. Surely they must've been upset in the first weekend of the NCAA Tournament.

Nova won the BET. Made the final four.

[Jay Bee]

Yessir.

I'm not saying I'd hate a BET title. But I won't be even a little disappointed if we lose Friday and our guys are healthy, rested and ready for the NCAA tournament.

I'm planning my entire March around the madness!

Eff that. Some of us actually go to tourneys

[jficke13]

I know that generally speaking you go into the conference tourney week largely locked into place on your seed and it's real hard to move based on either a bad or a good result, but I think any BET title would necessarily require you to take down at least 2 top 4ish seeds (Creighton, UCONN, X, PC in some combo). If we're hovering on the edge of a seed line, cutting the nets in NYC might be enough to bump us up a line simply because that's at a minimum a couple big time wins. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic though. Generally speaking I enjoy winning more than I enjoy losing, and I swear in the long time I've followed this team we've had terrible conference tourney results. It'd be fun to get some success in one for a change.

[Newsdreams]

Eff that. Some of us actually go to tourneys

Sorry JB ron won't travel this year.

[DoctorV]

We're 11th in the country, we may be 9th on Monday.  If you're not thinking about Houston, you're not living.

Oh I'm definitely thinking about Houston.
So much so that I've already set up my housing for the weekend- college buddy of mine lives there- and have a lined up itinerary filled with opening weekend of WhiteSox baseball (versus the Astros) and MU bball.

However, I am also still thinking about the goal I set for this years team in the pre-season, and I am thinking about that much more than about Houston.
To win one game in the NCAA Tournament.
If that makes any sense?

It's been a decade, and both Shaka and Marquette need it after the recent stretch.
I'm thinking about that so much that I'll be traveling to watch the game in person.

It's ok to think about both, plan for both, and only be disappointed if neither happens.

As a caveat, one thing has emerged this season that has caught me by complete surprise and changed my overall viewpoint on my pre-season expectations on what would constitute a successful season.
I will start a thread on it at some point so I can keep up with Muggsy.

As a teaser, it's my belief that if Marquette wins a Big East Conference Championship the entire season is a complete success, an A rated season for Coach Smart and the team, no matter what happens from that point forward.
If might not be the popular opinion, but it is an honest assessment from my pov.
MOPE, COLE, JERK be damned.

[DoctorV]

Yessir.

I'm not saying I'd hate a BET title. But I won't be even a little disappointed if we lose Friday and our guys are healthy, rested and ready for the NCAA tournament.

I'm planning my entire March around the madness!

Coach Smart has made it seem like he would be a bit disappointed so in that sense I think we should all be, albeit even if a minuscule amount.

Doesn't mean that your point isn't valid, or that the season can't be a success without a good showing in NYC, but just that IMO if Shaka wants and expects something special at the BET I think that we should as well.

[MU82]

Coach Smart has made it seem like he would be a bit disappointed so in that sense I think we should all be, albeit even if a minuscule amount.

Doesn't mean that your point isn't valid, or that the season can't be a success without a good showing in NYC, but just that IMO if Shaka wants and expects something special at the BET I think that we should as well.

If we win the BEast tournament but don't have a good March run, I will be disappointed. If we flame out early in the BET but have a great March run, I will be ecstatic.

Obviously, they are not mutually exclusive; it would be lovely to show well in both. I happen to put a premium on the NCAA tournament; others are free to disagree. I also happen to think a regular-season BEast title, won through extremely hard work and excellent play over 3 months, is more impressive than a tourney title; again, others can disagree.

[CountryRoads]

If we win the BEast tournament but don't have a good March run, I will be disappointed. If we flame out early in the BET but have a great March run, I will be ecstatic.

Obviously, they are not mutually exclusive; it would be lovely to show well in both. I happen to put a premium on the NCAA tournament; others are free to disagree. I also happen to think a regular-season BEast title, won through extremely hard work and excellent play over 3 months, is more impressive than a tourney title; again, others can disagree.

The BET is a completely awesome event to attend and it's an amazing experience watching MU compete on that stage in that environment. Though winning it doesn't move the needle nearly as much as regular season success (Top25) and NCAA success does.

As far as regular season success vs NCAA success goes, I'd prefer a good balance between the two with a slight edge to regular season success. There's something to be said about being good for 4 months versus a few games at the end of the year. That said, I don't want to be known as a team that always craps the bed in March either.

[MU82]

The BET is a completely awesome event to attend and it's an amazing experience watching MU compete on that stage in that environment. Though winning it doesn't move the needle nearly as much as regular season success (Top25) and NCAA success does.

As far as regular season success vs NCAA success goes, I'd prefer a good balance between the two with a slight edge to regular season success. There's something to be said about being good for 4 months versus a few games at the end of the year. That said, I don't want to be known as a team that always craps the bed in March either.

Reasonable take, CR.

All I'll add is that great programs win a LOT in the NCAA tournament. They regularly reach the second weekend and advance fairly often to the Elite Eight and Final Four. I want Marquette to be that great program again -- the elusive "Next Villanova," as it has been termed on Scoop. Now, of course, one way to pave the way for regular NCAAT success is to be a protected seed year after year. So having great regular seasons and having great NCAATs co-exist very nicely.

[DoctorV]

If we win the BEast tournament but don't have a good March run, I will be disappointed. If we flame out early in the BET but have a great March run, I will be ecstatic.

Obviously, they are not mutually exclusive; it would be lovely to show well in both. I happen to put a premium on the NCAA tournament; others are free to disagree. I also happen to think a regular-season BEast title, won through extremely hard work and excellent play over 3 months, is more impressive than a tourney title; again, others can disagree.

It's hard to disagree, you're correct.

March Madness >>>> BET in importance and at the end of the day >>>> regular season performance all things being equal.

Of course without a very good to elite nearly 4 months of ball before Selection Sunday there is no March Madness (sans a miracle run in the BET).

The all things being equal part comes in play when you bring a Conference Championship into play.
Of course March Madness is one of the greatest sporting events in the world, and "the casuals" all live for March Madness, so the big show brings all the hype, joy, enthrallment, memories to life and takes them to a new level.

That gives it a leg up on importance in nearly all instances to anything done from Nov-March 10.
A Conference Championship strikes different though, and has its place in folklore, especially when you are a Marquette fan and they haven't come around too often.

Hopefully one day Shaka will continue to ascend and take Marquette to the heights where a Big East Title is just another trophy and loses some of its luster, but for now it would be a dream come true.

[PGsHeroes32]

I know that generally speaking you go into the conference tourney week largely locked into place on your seed and it's real hard to move based on either a bad or a good result, but I think any BET title would necessarily require you to take down at least 2 top 4ish seeds (Creighton, UCONN, X, PC in some combo). If we're hovering on the edge of a seed line, cutting the nets in NYC might be enough to bump us up a line simply because that's at a minimum a couple big time wins. Maybe I'm being overly optimistic though. Generally speaking I enjoy winning more than I enjoy losing, and I swear in the long time I've followed this team we've had terrible conference tourney results. It'd be fun to get some success in one for a change.

Yes, thats why I think we could still move up to a 2 seed.

If we win out(not expecting to). Thats a really good chance for 3 more Q1 wins. Creighton obviously and then the last two at MSG.

I do think though that if there are MSG upsets and either the semi final or the final ends up being someone someone other than the other 4 top 5 teams, we would not move up to a 2.

Normally conference tournies down mean much. But I think snagging 2 more Q1s on top of a hypothetical 17-3 conference record would move the needle.

[willie warrior]

Yep. In 2003, we were ranked 11th this exact same week. And in 2013, the last time in the Elite 8, we never were this highly ranked.  I get that it's not LIKELY. But it certainly more likely now than it has been in awhile.

But willie's gonna willie.

And Sultans gonna be Bozo the clown.
Pumping the brakes a tad is simply being cautiously optimistic. But hey, you are the all knowing prophet.

[wisblue]

Reasonable take, CR.

All I'll add is that great programs win a LOT in the NCAA tournament. They regularly reach the second weekend and advance fairly often to the Elite Eight and Final Four. I want Marquette to be that great program again -- the elusive "Next Villanova," as it has been termed on Scoop. Now, of course, one way to pave the way for regular NCAAT success is to be a protected seed year after year. So having great regular seasons and having great NCAATs co-exist very nicely.

I would add that those great programs  regularly win conference tournaments too, or at least make it to the tournament final, something MU has never done in the Big East.

My opinion about the value of losing early in conference tournaments to "rest up" for the NCAA tournament is that it's a consolation prize for losers.

A lot of the examples of teams that have won conference tournaments and then flamed out early in the NCAA (like Georgetown a few years ago) are teams that weren't that good that happened to get hot for a weekend. They lose in the NCAA because they aren't that good and return to earth a week later.

There are many, many examples of conference tournament champions that have gone on to win the NCAA title, or reach the Final Four. Those are the elite championship caliber teams, not ones that just caught lightning in a bottle.

The original Villanova won several regular season and conference tournament championships in addition to its postseason success. IMHO that should be the goal.

[Uncle Rico]

The big tourney is the thing but the Big East tournament still holds a lot of cache and given Marquette's rather pedestrian results in it, I'd like to see them playing Saturday night

[Jables1604]

And Sultans gonna be Bozo the clown.
Pumping the brakes a tad is simply being cautiously optimistic. But hey, you are the all knowing prophet.

Exactly. The first thing that always comes to mind when reading your posts over the last few years is "optimistic."

[Jay Bee]

Let's hope we don't draw Abilene Christian aina

[MU82]

I would add that those great programs  regularly win conference tournaments too, or at least make it to the tournament final, something MU has never done in the Big East.

My opinion about the value of losing early in conference tournaments to "rest up" for the NCAA tournament is that it's a consolation prize for losers.

A lot of the examples of teams that have won conference tournaments and then flamed out early in the NCAA (like Georgetown a few years ago) are teams that weren't that good that happened to get hot for a weekend. They lose in the NCAA because they aren't that good and return to earth a week later.

There are many, many examples of conference tournament champions that have gone on to win the NCAA title, or reach the Final Four. Those are the elite championship caliber teams, not ones that just caught lightning in a bottle.

The original Villanova won several regular season and conference tournament championships in addition to its postseason success. IMHO that should be the goal.

All reasonable. Of course, any of us can find examples of worthy conference champions who flame out early in the NCAAs, with Virginia being Exhibit #1 and plenty of others, but those are probably the outliers.

The big tourney is the thing but the Big East tournament still holds a lot of cache and given Marquette's rather pedestrian results in it, I'd like to see them playing Saturday night

Also fair. Look, I'll certainly be happy if Marquette wins the BET. All I did was say the NCAAT matters more to me because, as you said, it's "the thing."

The good thing is none of us is forced to choose. We're all just gonna watch and cheer and let Shaka's squad take us along for the ride. Hopefully the ride lasts all the way till April!

[withoutbias]

All reasonable. Of course, any of us can find examples of worthy conference champions who flame out early in the NCAAs, with Virginia being Exhibit #1 and plenty of others, but those are probably the outliers.

Also fair. Look, I'll certainly be happy if Marquette wins the BET. All I did was say the NCAAT matters more to me because, as you said, it's "the thing."

The good thing is none of us is forced to choose. We're all just gonna watch and cheer and let Shaka's squad take us along for the ride. Hopefully the ride lasts all the way till April!

Haven't you been the conductor on the "these are 18-22 year old male freak athletes who get super long timeouts every 4 minutes.  They shouldn't need rest" train?  Now you're conducting the, "I wouldn't mind if our 18-22 year old male freak athletes get 2 extra days of rest, when they'll already be getting a minimum of 4 days of rest even if they win a BET title" train?