By state, the most difficult colleges to get into

[keefe]

Ah the College of Communications, (one of) my college and the one I affectionately refer to as "fake college."

I don't know about fake. I am told you can drink all through finals week. That is an education in itself.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Kids are smart and deserve some credit... even the ones who shouldn't be in college.  A lot of them are figuring out that they're better off jumpstarting their career in HVAC, surgical tech, one of the trades, etc. (essentially, anything you can learn at a community college) and start making $35-40k/year rather than incur $100,000 in student loans for the same income five years later.

When I lived in Indy, I met a kid who wasn't even old enough to drink, and he was pulling in 50 large a year working in a factory while living with his parents... he started working there in facilities on weekends when he was 15, the summer after he turned 17, they made him a machinist assistant, when he turned 18 he was setting up and running a CNC on his own, and at 19 he started programming the CNCs.  The kid was sharp as a tack and was taking courses at either Ivy Tech or IUPUI in the evenings towards an associates degree... he's probably running the shop by now, and even if he's already maxed out his career earnings, without any student debt, he had a few hundred thousand in the bank before he turned 25.

Student Debt + 4 years @ MU >>>>>> working in a factory living with mom & pop in Indy

can't get those 4 years of your life back

[Benny B]

I don't know about fake. I am told you can drink all through finals week. That is an education in itself.

Fake, phony; tomato, tomato.

https://www.youtube.com/e/aDMKXFeBNVU

[jficke13]

I don't know about fake. I am told you can drink all through finals week. That is an education in itself.

We can and we did. But I have no illusions that engineering/business > comm in both difficulty and social/economic value.

[dgies9156]

A lot of them are figuring out that they're better off jumpstarting their career in HVAC, surgical tech, one of the trades, etc. (essentially, anything you can learn at a community college) and start making $35-40k/year rather than incur $100,000 in student loans for the same income five years later.

When I lived in Indy, I met a kid who wasn't even old enough to drink, and he was pulling in 50 large a year working in a factory while living with his parents... The kid was sharp as a tack and was taking courses at either Ivy Tech or IUPUI in the evenings towards an associates degree... he's probably running the shop by now, and even if he's already maxed out his career earnings, without any student debt, he had a few hundred thousand in the bank before he turned 25.

If you're going to college to learn a trade, then you blew it. Sure, learning to do something meaningful in life is important. But learning to think and understand is the real reason we go to college. To be a life-long learner and to know how to think critically is the value of a Marquette education -- then and now.

My first job was a newspaper reporter in the Quad Cities and one of my jobs was to cover manufacturing, which existed there at the time. The union hall guys used to call me "college boy" and bait me to compare my salary to their's. I passed because they probably were making double what I was making at the time.

My Marquette degree in Journalism gave me the critical thinking skills to get an MBA from Loyola in Chicago. Their machining ability came in "real handy" when Deere, International Harvester, Caterpillar and Case all closed manufacturing plants in the Quad Cities region. If I had stayed in Journalism, I'd probably be in the same boat they are in. But because I had a college degree and an ability to think critically, I adapted.

[Chicos' Buzz Scandal Countdown]

Boy, it's a lot easier to get into Harvard's Midwest campus

[4everwarriors]

and UW had about a 1pt edge on MU in this area as well.  college rankings are a joke.  i heard MU failed to reach its enrollment goal pretty handily.  UW now looking to accept more students from out of state.  fewer students nationwide going to college.  going to be some tough times ahead for many colleges/universities i think.

Translates inta more tuition scheckles, ai na?

[77ncaachamps]

if my count is right, 5 schools are easier to get in than MU on that list.

[Eldon]

Kids are smart and deserve some credit... even the ones who shouldn't be in college.  A lot of them are figuring out that they're better off jumpstarting their career in HVAC, surgical tech, one of the trades, etc. (essentially, anything you can learn at a community college) and start making $35-40k/year rather than incur $100,000 in student loans for the same income five years later.

When I lived in Indy, I met a kid who wasn't even old enough to drink, and he was pulling in 50 large a year working in a factory while living with his parents... he started working there in facilities on weekends when he was 15, the summer after he turned 17, they made him a machinist assistant, when he turned 18 he was setting up and running a CNC on his own, and at 19 he started programming the CNCs.  The kid was sharp as a tack and was taking courses at either Ivy Tech or IUPUI in the evenings towards an associates degree... he's probably running the shop by now, and even if he's already maxed out his career earnings, without any student debt, he had a few hundred thousand in the bank before he turned 25.

I generally agree with this and lament the stigma attached to not going to college.  There are respectable fields in the trades that pay handsome salaries with little debt.

Anyone have any idea to what extent HS counselors are the motivating force behind the push not to go into the trades? 

[warriorchick]

I generally agree with this and lament the stigma attached to not going to college.  There are respectable fields in the trades that pay handsome salaries with little debt.

Anyone have any idea to what extent HS counselors are the motivating force behind the push not to go into the trades?

As long as the percentage of kids who go onto college is an important stat for a high school, I don't see that changing much.

[Benny B]

As long as the percentage of kids who go onto college is an important stat for a high school, I don't see that changing much.

This might just be a coincidence, but at the two high schools I attended, the GC was probably the most educated person on the payroll.  Both of them had PhD's and were the only times I ever saw "Dr." on a high school office door (that didn't belong to a principal).

I've also found that "most educated" doesn't typically equate to "most intelligent."  So if the PhD-GC thing is a trend elsewhere, then this probably has something to do with it, too. 

[real chili 83]

If you're going to college to learn a trade, then you blew it. Sure, learning to do something meaningful in life is important. But learning to think and understand is the real reason we go to college. To be a life-long learner and to know how to think critically is the value of a Marquette education -- then and now.

My first job was a newspaper reporter in the Quad Cities and one of my jobs was to cover manufacturing, which existed there at the time. The union hall guys used to call me "college boy" and bait me to compare my salary to their's. I passed because they probably were making double what I was making at the time.

My Marquette degree in Journalism gave me the critical thinking skills to get an MBA from Loyola in Chicago. Their machining ability came in "real handy" when Deere, International Harvester, Caterpillar and Case all closed manufacturing plants in the Quad Cities region. If I had stayed in Journalism, I'd probably be in the same boat they are in. But because I had a college degree and an ability to think critically, I adapted.

Your point about critical thinking is good.  However, it's too bad we view "trade schools" along with a bunch of big Union slackers. 

The right term is technical school.  There is a slew of tremendous programs out there.  They are teaching the technologies of automation control, fluid power, nursing, and manufacturing technology, to name a few.  They are graduating future Nursing Managers, Plant Managers, VP's of Tecnical Sales, and Application Engineers, to name a few.  Some of the two year RN's I've worked with are nothing short of amazing.

Further, colleges are full of kids that don't belong in a four year school.  They go, in part, because their parents are too embarrassed to tell their neighbors that they go to a "tech school", and push them into a four year school. 

[Galway Eagle]

Your point about critical thinking is good.  However, it's too bad we view "trade schools" along with a bunch of big Union slackers. 

The right term is technical school.  There is a slew of tremendous programs out there.  They are teaching the technologies of automation control, fluid power, nursing, and manufacturing technology, to name a few.  They are graduating future Nursing Managers, Plant Managers, VP's of Tecnical Sales, and Application Engineers, to name a few.  Some of the two year RN's I've worked with are nothing short of amazing.

Further, colleges are full of kids that don't belong in a four year school.  They go, in part, because their parents are too embarrassed to tell their neighbors that they go to a "tech school", and push them into a four year school.

For the record most states have outlawed 2yr RN programs.

But you're right about who colleges are full of.

[real chili 83]

For the record most states have outlawed 2yr RN programs.

But you're right about who colleges are full of.

That is incorrect. 

[Galway Eagle]

That is incorrect.

I know NY requires it, I know il had proposed it and I know tons of hospitals are starting to require nurses to have a bachelors or get it within a few years of being hired.

Maybe it's just speciality but my mom just had to go back to get her college degree after being a nurse since the 70s. 

[real chili 83]

I know NY requires it, I know il had proposed it and I know tons of hospitals are starting to require nurses to have a bachelors or get it within a few years of being hired.

Maybe it's just speciality but my mom just had to go back to get her college degree after being a nurse since the 70s.

NY may require it, but most states don't. With the nursing shortage, and the quality of two year programs, NY is the exception. 

Many states require a nursing instructor to be a masters level or a mid level provider.  Quality educators.  Many of them start with a 2 year RN degree. 

To have a BSN is a great accomplishment.  It is clearly a path to higher level specialties. 

If you are in an ER and hurt badly, you want a 5 year RN with a 2 year degree versus a brand new BSN.

Both degrees are great.  I have great respect for both.  One thing I respect about Wisconsin's requirement for a 2 year RN, you have to put in your time as a CNA. 

By the way, the finest nurses are the MU nurses.....

[Galway Eagle]

North Dakota does as well. But you're right I jumped the gun on the whole "most states" thing.

The recommendation that the institute of medicine has is for 80% of nurses to hold a bsn.

Personally I don't care much if they have a bsn for ER oncology etc but dealing with plastics and aesthetics so much prefer more educated practiced nurses.

[MU82]

I don't know about fake. I am told you can drink all through finals week. That is an education in itself.

Who would make up a crazy story like that?

Oh wait ... sorry ... I was too wasted to remember that I did.

BTW, my daughter was accepted by Grinnell (Iowa's toughest), Oberlin (Ohio's toughest), Marquette (Wisconsin's toughest) and Carleton (Minnesota's toughest) ... and she chose to go to none of the above!

[Benny B]

Personally I don't care much if they have a bsn for ER oncology etc but dealing with plastics and aesthetics so much prefer more educated practiced nurses.

That wouldn't have anything to do with the correlation that BSN's skew much younger than their RN colleagues, would it?

[warriorchick]

Personally I don't care much if they have a bsn for ER oncology etc but dealing with plastics and aesthetics so much prefer more educated practiced nurses.

So, can you get people discounts on that stuff?

Um, asking for a friend.

[Benny B]

So, can you get people discounts on that stuff?

Um, asking for a friend.

Keefe might be able to hook your friend up with someone from the interwebs who might be willing to subsidize the purchase or help defray the costs.

[JWags85]

Its funny, most of the nurses I know have 6 years of schooling. 4 undergrad and then 2 years of nursing school at somewhere like Rush after, to get a Masters in Nursing I believe.  They weren't nursing majors in undergrad for a variety of reasons.

[MU82]

Its funny, most of the nurses I know have 6 years of schooling. 4 undergrad and then 2 years of nursing school at somewhere like Rush after, to get a Masters in Nursing I believe.  They weren't nursing majors in undergrad for a variety of reasons.

The nurse I know best graduated from Marquette with a Journalism degree, decided to be a stay-at-home mom, enrolled in a community college at age 40 and graduated with an associate's degree in nursing two years later (the same year she ran the Chicago Marathon), got a job at Children's Memorial Hospital and went on to become my Sugar Mama after we moved to N.C. Just last year, at age 52, got her BSN.

As Sinatra would say, she's a pretty classy dame.

[Galway Eagle]

So, can you get people discounts on that stuff?

Um, asking for a friend.

If your "friend" wants to risk being used as a training patient it's 100% free!

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

The nurse I know best graduated from Marquette with a Journalism degree, decided to be a stay-at-home mom, enrolled in a community college at age 40 and graduated with an associate's degree in nursing two years later (the same year she ran the Chicago Marathon), got a job at Children's Memorial Hospital and went on to become my Sugar Mama after we moved to N.C. Just last year, at age 52, got her BSN.

As Sinatra would say, she's a pretty classy dame.

Love that Sinatra.