Buzz On Chris

[MU06CU10]

Technically a doctor here, but still not sure what to make of it. From the video, my immediate concern was ACL. If it was just the ligament and not the meniscus or bone, then it's definitely true, as others have mentioned, that you can walk on it afterwards without much difficulty (other than instability). If there was any concern for that, however, I too would hope that the trainers would have at least stabilized his knee before letting him walk around. I'm sure the examined and reexamined the stability of his knee in the locker room multiple times, so my hope is that it's not as bad as it looked. Regardless, MRI is the answer for this. Here's to hoping for the obvious!

[CrazyEcho]

It would be hilarious if you had a PhD in Sociology. 

[MU06CU10]

It would be hilarious if you had a PhD in Sociology.  

Haha, that probably would have been an easier, less expensive route. I'm legit (MD) but just started residency July, so still have the training wheels on. Also, as a disclaimer, I'm not going into ortho and I didn't examine his knee, so I'm pretty much just Fristin' it over here.

[TomW1365]

Fools, fools, fools... An injury to a key player will freak us all out.  But there's many that go straight to the ACL tear?  Thank God you're not my Doctor! 
I have no idea if OTule is going to be alright, but I'm not going to diagnose him via ESPN.  Let's get behind our guy and not speculate.

[4everwarriors]

I'm a doctor. All you Otule critics out there, eat feces.

[Tulsa Warrior]

"I'm not going to diagnose him via ESPN."  Lots of people practicing tele-medicine. 

[mu03eng]

I tore my ACL and meniscus 2 months ago playing basketball, open court non-contact somewhat similar to Chris, had surgery 5 weeks ago.  I could walk on it immediately afterwards but I knew something wasn't right and had a limited range of motion.  Injured it on a Monday and by Saturday I was taking my dog for a walk when the doc called to give me the MRI results.  The big thing after the injury is lateral movement and walking I would occasionally feel like my knee was going to "flamingo".  Based on talking to the docs, my wife is a PT, and general research how people react to ACL tears is all dependent on how strong the muscles around the knee are.  If Chris has a strong quad and hamstring he could walk on it without much visible evidence of injury.

Unless you can't walk they don't put you on crutches you've already done all the damage you can do.

Having said all that, thee are all sorts of less significant injuries he could have suffered, meniscus tear or bone bruising are just a few.  I was surprised the SID came out with the sprained knee diagnosis so quick, really can't tell for sure until you have the MRI

[MUDPT]

I'm a PT and most people are right in that any speculation done now is speculation.  You can walk around with a torn ACL.  Most ligaments have little pain sensation, so many times they are non-painful as people have explained here.  I guess it's good that he was walking around after the game, I didn't see it.  Another PT friend said it didn't look good, however.  Most of my PT friends were trying to convince each other that he didn't tear his ACL.

[Lighthouse 84]

I also blew out my ACL playing basketball.  I played (or at least, tried) another 10 minutes before stopping (we were short players).  Within a very short time, my knee blew up into the proverbial volleyball.  The Dr. drained a large amount of blood off the knee several days later.  I'll add that if it's an ACL tear, Chris could definitely walk afterwards but he'd have a very noticeable limp.  He'd also have an extremely tight and large knee because of all the blood.  Obviously, an MRI will confirm it but they'll have a good idea it it's an ACL even without the MRI.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

most people are right in that any speculation done now is speculation.

Are you sure you're not a Republican candidate for President!?! 

[MUDPT]

I get upset a lot about people speculating on injuries without ever examining a patient, which I guess I just did.  There was a huge article about Jay Cutler's injury by a physician in Chicago who had never seen Cutler, was just guessing on what the surgery was and how long he had been out.  And I know I'm off topic, but Matt Forte just got diagnosed with the same injury as Cutler in last year's playoff and there is no backlash against Forte for going to a Victoria Secret promotion last night instead of resting.  That's why any speculation is speculation right now.

[mu03eng]

I get upset a lot about people speculating on injuries without ever examining a patient, which I guess I just did.  There was a huge article about Jay Cutler's injury by a physician in Chicago who had never seen Cutler, was just guessing on what the surgery was and how long he had been out.  And I know I'm off topic, but Matt Forte just got diagnosed with the same injury as Cutler in last year's playoff and there is no backlash against Forte for going to a Victoria Secret promotion last night instead of resting.  That's why any speculation is speculation right now.

+1

Even the doctors examining Otule may not know the extent of the injury yet.  My ortho doc did a Lachman test on my knee and thought I might have escaped with just a meniscus tear.  It wasn't until we had an MRI that we knew the extent of the injury, and we are dealing with even less information so lets all just take a deep breath and wait it out.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

But he's only got one eye!!

[JD]

I'm a doctor

-Dr. Suess.

[NickelDimer]

Didn't see anyone reference this quote, but it's encouraging...

Williams on the status of center Chris Otule who suffered a knee injury 2 minutes into the game: "He has a sprained knee. He'll get an X-ray, an MRI, whatever they do, late tomorrow afternoon with our team doctors." (Williams did say that he thought Otule would be OK).

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/135150133.html

[4everwarriors]

Yeah sure, he'll be OK, sooner or later.

[PVMagic]

Really just rationalizing what I want the hear soon in my head, but again, the fact that he wasn't on crutches or at all immobilized is very encouraging... I keep reminding myself of how conservative they tend to be with injuries (how many guys have we heard about wearing "precautionary" walking boots).

[MUMac]

Didn't see anyone reference this quote, but it's encouraging...
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/135150133.html

Normally I think coaches refrain from saying anything like that unless the initial testing by the staff came out positive.  I know McCarthy usually says what they believe the injury may be.  With Buzz, I have not seen how he handles it, but hopefully it is the same.

[NickelDimer]

Normally I think coaches refrain from saying anything like that unless the initial testing by the staff came out positive.  I know McCarthy usually says what they believe the injury may be.  With Buzz, I have not seen how he handles it, but hopefully it is the same.

I agree.  More times than not if there's concern it's serious they say something along the lines of "we'll see what the tests reveal", etc. 

[Benny B]

Would one of the resident doctors (or medically inclined) answer the following:

1. Can you have a "sprained knee" but not have any damage to the ACL in that knee?

2. Is an MRI primarily used to determine where a knee injury occurred or the extent of a knee injury?  For example, is an examining physician typically able to conclude that the ACL is injured before an MRI or X-Ray is done (even though the extent of the injury is not known)?

[PVMagic]

Would one of the resident doctors (or medically inclined) answer the following:

1. Can you have a "sprained knee" but not have any damage to the ACL in that knee?

2. Is an MRI primarily used to determine where a knee injury occurred or the extent of a knee injury?  For example, is an examining physician typically able to conclude that the ACL is injured before an MRI or X-Ray is done (even though the extent of the injury is not known)?

There are probably others on here with more expertise than me (just a lowly med student at this point... I'd assume there is an orthopod or two floating around here?), so by all means, correct me if I'm wrong.

1) A "sprain" is pretty generic, and can technically mean anything from a stretched ligament to a tear.  So yes, you could sprain the knee without damage to the ACL (though there are a few other ligaments/menisci in there that would also put Otule down for a while).

2)  Depends on the extent of the injury.  There are definitely clinical exams (someone mentioned the Lachman) that can demonstrate damage.  But an MRI should show diagnosis/location/extent definitively.

[mileskishnish72]

Benny,

A "sprain" indicates damage to a ligament, which is a fibrous structure that connects bones. There is a continuum from a mild sprain that might produce some pain, but where there is no gross damage or instability, to a complete rupture. Yes, there can be a "sparin" and the ACL can be fine, because the sprain involves other ligaments.

The ligaments involved and the amount of damage can be difficult to determine on the basis of physical exam only. The MRI can pinpoint what's involved and what is the extent of the disruption.

Was at the game, saw the play, but was screened by the press row. The description is scary. I would not get too optimistic about his being on the bench, not using crutches, etc. Often by exam the amount of damage is underestimated. Sad to say, I think it's fair to think it's an ACL unless and until the MRI shows otherwise. Here's hoping.

[Dr. Dunkenstein]

Could somebody please put all this speculation to rest and check with Doc Rivers.  "You know Doc's a nickname, right?"

I am absolutely hoping for the best for Chris.

[dwaderoy2004]

Honestly, watching the replays, it just didn't look that bad to me.  He twisted it, but the knee never actually gave out in any way.  I think Chris was scared more than anything else.  I'm am guessing he will miss a couple games as a precautionary measure and be back in time for LSU, probably with a brace, but also probably no worse for the wear.  Time will tell, I suppose.