Well, at least UW-madison won't beat #16 Illinois with their traditional players

[JayCultersChins]

Badger fan here

Gasser v.s. Blue debates are silly but inevitable.  Both players are a jump shot away from being highly productive for their teams.  They seem to have most other parts figured out.  I haven't seen enough of Blue to know if he is going to become a good shooter.  Having seen plenty of Gasser, he looks great shooting the ball but his shots aren't falling.  Both players play similar roles for their teams.  

Gasser wasn't out there at crunch time v.s. MSU and it cost the Badgers dearly.  Bo went with Rob Wilson for the first time this season and he made some stupid plays.  Gasser was out there down the stretch v.s. Illinois and Bo thought enough of him to guard McCamey.  I know most people here hate Bo but we as Badger fans trust him and for him to have so much confidence in a freshman makes us believe that Gasser is going to be a good one.  

Both guys fit nicely into what their teams do.  I question the posters though that say the two wouldn't look good if they switched teams.  The two players aren't mirror images of each other but they are pretty similar.  Both are good defenders, can get to the bucket and draw fouls, both pass the ball nicely, rebound, etc.  Either team would be lucky to have both guys on their roster.  Could have made for a dynamite back court in a few years.  If Marquette didn't recruit Gasser very hard they should be kicking themselves.  Similar to the way I feel about UW and Diante Garrett.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Who is Jay Culter?

[MerrittsMustache]

Badger fan here

Gasser v.s. Blue debates are silly but inevitable.  Both players are a jump shot away from being highly productive for their teams.  They seem to have most other parts figured out.  I haven't seen enough of Blue to know if he is going to become a good shooter.  Having seen plenty of Gasser, he looks great shooting the ball but his shots aren't falling.  Both players play similar roles for their teams.  

Gasser wasn't out there at crunch time v.s. MSU and it cost the Badgers dearly.  Bo went with Rob Wilson for the first time this season and he made some stupid plays.  Gasser was out there down the stretch v.s. Illinois and Bo thought enough of him to guard McCamey.  I know most people here hate Bo but we as Badger fans trust him and for him to have so much confidence in a freshman makes us believe that Gasser is going to be a good one.  

Both guys fit nicely into what their teams do.  I question the posters though that say the two wouldn't look good if they switched teams.  The two players aren't mirror images of each other but they are pretty similar.  Both are good defenders, can get to the bucket and draw fouls, both pass the ball nicely, rebound, etc.  Either team would be lucky to have both guys on their roster.  Could have made for a dynamite back court in a few years.  If Marquette didn't recruit Gasser very hard they should be kicking themselves.  Similar to the way I feel about UW and Diante Garrett.

The biggest difference is that Gasser's ceiling is a Michael Flowers-type of college career and Blue's ceiling is a Dwyane Wade-type of college career.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The biggest difference is that Gasser's ceiling is a Michael Flowers-type of college career and Blue's ceiling is a Dwyane Wade-type of college career.

If Blue ends up being like Wade he better get crackin soon.  Blue's going to be a very good player, but his ceiling is not Dwyane Wade in his college career.  Put another way, there is no way Blue is a top 5 pick out of Marquette.

[Lennys Tap]

If Blue ends up being like Wade he better get crackin soon.  Blue's going to be a very good player, but his ceiling is not Dwyane Wade in his college career.  Put another way, there is no way Blue is a top 5 pick out of Marquette.

Agree. Guys like Wade are once in a lifetime, and even then only if you're lucky.

[MerrittsMustache]

If Blue ends up being like Wade he better get crackin soon.  Blue's going to be a very good player, but his ceiling is not Dwyane Wade in his college career.  Put another way, there is no way Blue is a top 5 pick out of Marquette.

Blue doesn't have to be a top 5 NBA Draft pick to have a Wade-like career at MU (which, by the way, I said was his ceiling). Wade's NBA career and draft status are inconsequential to his college career.

[Marquette84]

Chicos, without ever seeing Josh Gasser play and after one college game, starts a thread about the kid. Calls him "very intelligent", "a good outside shooter", "a spot up shooter" and a "traditional" player who is lacking in athleticism. He knows none of these things, but assumes them as facts based on what? Turns out Chicos was wrong on everything verifiable - he's not a good outside or spot up shooter, but he is a very good athlete. Nobody knows whether or not he's "very intelligent", but why would someone attribute that quality to him without any evidence is puzzling.

Why did Chicos engage in this type of (incorrect) sterotyping as regards Josh Gasser and his game? I don't know, but I (and others) correctly pointed out what it SOUNDED LIKE.

But I NEVER said he was a racist and for you to claim it is a lie. My belief is he was doing his usual thing - finding anything he can to rip the program. In the process he unintentionally made some foolish and insensitive comments. But for him to play the  victim in the fight he clearly started is silly.

So no retraction or apology here. Your assertion that I called Chicos a racist is still a lie. I'll anxiously await your apology.

Well, you've basically confirmed my suspicion that you were really trying to make some sort of accusation of racisim.  Your defense is that you never said the word racist--you used "code words" yourself--and that you were justified based on what Chicos posted.   

I accept your defense that you used "code words" for racism rather the word itself and apologize for saying that you called him racist directly. 

But I think you also owe an apology for calling me a liar, since my comments were based on a correct interpretation of the underlying sentiment of your post.   

[brewcity77]

If Blue ends up being like Wade he better get crackin soon.  Blue's going to be a very good player, but his ceiling is not Dwyane Wade in his college career.  Put another way, there is no way Blue is a top 5 pick out of Marquette.

Blue's biggest problem is his jump shot, which was a problem for Wade also when he got here. He improved it vastly between his sophomore and junior years. If Blue can do the same, with his defense and slashing ability where it is, there's no reason he can't have a Wade-like impact on the program. Doesn't mean he'll go top 5, but if he improves his finishing, he could be an All-American type player.

[Wisco]

As with most super polarizing, overblown debates I think that most of this community has fallen into that ol'logical fallacy of the false dichotomy. People seem to be clawing at each other over the following division:
1. Chicos is unfairly treated by some (the overwhelming minority - they just happen to be active and vocal) posters and is frequently attacked unfairly
2. Chicos brings it upon himself and is simply a mean spirited instigator.

Surprise! Neither is right. At least not all the way. There are probably shades of both positions in how the real situation has played out, but the vast majority of "the problem" lies somewhere in the middle. Chicos has unpopular (though not unjustifiable views) on some issues discussed here and is criticized for them. That's what having unpopular views will do to you. Unfortunately, this criticism sometimes comes in the form of ad hominem and "poisoning the well" so that everything he says is dismissed out of hand only because it comes from him.

On the other hand, threads like this one (just looking at the title, not how it has developed) do have an undeniably antagonizing tone to them. Especially when TIMING in considered. To post that UW beat Illinois is not out of bounds here - I think we all care about the failure (or unfortunate success) of UW basketball. But given the wording and timing (right after the event that shall not be named) it sure comes off as mean spirited. Maybe history has something to do with this (the "traditional" joke is pretty played out at this point) but that doesn't change the fact that it was sort of lame.

So. For the sake of the board and it's quality, it would seem a detente is in order. We get it. You guys disagree. You might not even like each other (I have no idea). But if we could all just not get tied up in these he said, she said arguments, the whole board would be better - and don't we all want that? At this point, who cares who started it - let's just all agree that it should end. Your self image should not be caught up in what posters on an online message board think of you and "who wins the argument."

That was probably too many words - but this place is starting to suck, which is a shame, because I used to really like reading and posting here.

I'm mainly a lurker here, but I agree - this forum has really gone downhill over the past few months.

[Lennys Tap]

Well, you've basically confirmed my suspicion that you were really trying to make some sort of accusation of racisim.  Your defense is that you never said the word racist--you used "code words" yourself--and that you were justified based on what Chicos posted.   

I accept your defense that you used "code words" for racism rather the word itself and apologize for saying that you called him racist directly. 

But I think you also owe an apology for calling me a liar, since my comments were based on a correct interpretation of the underlying sentiment of your post.   

The" underlying sentiment" of my post is simply that Chicos seizes on any chance he can to passive aggressively criticize our coaching staff. He'll go so far as to make untrue assumptions (Gasser's not too athletic, Gasser's a good 3 point and spot up shooter) and unknowable (after one game) assumptions (Gasser is very intelligent) to "prove" those criticisms valid.

Could his assumptions be characterized as suggesting a sterotype? Since he drew his conclusions based on almost no facts, they certainly can be said to SOUND like that. But my guess, like Kara's, was that he got carried away and said something inarticulately.

Of course, even if he made a racially insensitive remark that in no way, shape or form would make him a racist. I don't know of anyone (myself included) who hasn't made remarks that upon reflection are inarticulate and don't SOUND right.

So, in summation, I do NOT, nor have I ever thought Chicos to be a racist, and I have NEVER called him one. Your assertion that I did remains, as it always has been, untrue.
 

[ChicosBailBonds]

The" underlying sentiment" of my post is simply that Chicos seizes on any chance he can to passive aggressively criticize our coaching staff. He'll go so far as to make untrue assumptions (Gasser's not too athletic, Gasser's a good 3 point and spot up shooter) and unknowable (after one game) assumptions (Gasser is very intelligent) to "prove" those criticisms valid.

I made those assumptions based on his high school criteria Lenny.  I do not seize on "any chance" or "vast majority" of times to rip on Buzz or the staff.  These wild lies you keep stating are just that, lies.  I hope this guy posts his audit soon but he's told me you're absolutely full of crap (as if I needed an audit to tell me).

Could his assumptions be characterized as suggesting a sterotype? Since he drew his conclusions based on almost no facts, they certainly can be said to SOUND like that. But my guess, like Kara's, was that he got carried away and said something inarticulately.

Of course, even if he made a racially insensitive remark that in no way, shape or form would make him a racist. I don't know of anyone (myself included) who hasn't made remarks that upon reflection are inarticulate and don't SOUND right.

So, in summation, I do NOT, nor have I ever thought Chicos to be a racist, and I have NEVER called him one. Your assertion that I did remains, as it always has been, untrue.
 

Your last line is mindboggling as is your spinning.  You have stated it twice with your code word nonsense and then gave a +1 just two days ago to another poster's message who's entire message was "I'm not calling you a racist but...." .  That's how I interpreted it and that's certainly how 84 and that's how others interpreted it.   

I'm tired of your implications on that, but sorry you earned what people believe you said...sound familiar?  And I'm really sick of your "vast majority" comments.  They are flat out untrue, and you no it but you continue to perpetuate it.  Your obsession is crazy.

[Lennys Tap]

I made those assumptions based on his high school criteria Lenny.  I do not seize on "any chance" or "vast majority" of times to rip on Buzz or the staff.  These wild lies you keep stating are just that, lies.  I hope this guy posts his audit soon but he's told me you're absolutely full of crap (as if I needed an audit to tell me).

Your last line is mindboggling as is your spinning.  You have stated it twice with your code word nonsense and then gave a +1 just two days ago to another poster's message who's entire message was "I'm not calling you a racist but...." .  That's how I interpreted it and that's certainly how 84 and that's how others interpreted it.   

I'm tired of your implications on that, but sorry you earned what people believe you said...sound familiar?  And I'm really sick of your "vast majority" comments.  They are flat out untrue, and you no it but you continue to perpetuate it.  Your obsession is crazy.

I give up. You're absolutely out of control. I'm hitting the ignore button. Go stalk somebody else.

[rocky_warrior]

So. For the sake of the board and it's quality, it would seem a detente is in order. We get it. You guys disagree. You might not even like each other (I have no idea). But if we could all just not get tied up in these he said, she said arguments, the whole board would be better - and don't we all want that? At this point, who cares who started it - let's just all agree that it should end. Your self image should not be caught up in what posters on an online message board think of you and "who wins the argument."

1) I agree with the above, and I'm getting closer and closer to banning everyone involved in the arguments.  I don't give a sh*t who started it, or who ended it.

2) The next person that demands an apology is going to get banned.  That's a load of crap, and posturing to post publicly.  If you really want to demand something of someone, give them a call.  Don't post it here.

3) This thread was going bad, went ok for a couple posts about Blue and Gasser (including a post by a *gasp*, UW fan), and then derailed again.  Locked, though I do appreciate those who wanted to discuss the topic.

p.s. - I'm on vacation and forced to moderate this which means my ban "safety" is off...