Play of the game....

[warthog-driver]

Now, Hurley tried to force the issue and submit the paperwork himself--but he cannot do that--the request has to come from the player and signed by a parent.

What we can all agree upon, I feel, is that Coach Hurley is a very bad man. A very conniving man. A very evil man.

[warthog-driver]

Moses.

Now wait a minute! If Moses had been named coach at MU Taylor would be in Blue and Gold today. You know, that Promised Land thing?

[Pakuni]

We know based on the facts available that Taylor did not request his release was not filed until 4/16.

It was not filed the evening of 4/1/08 as you claim.

Why are you obsessed with the date he formally filed the correct paperwork? It's irrelevant. What is relevant is that:
a) Taylor (not just Hurley, as you claim) made clear within hours of Crean's departure that he wanted out of his commitment.
b) Taylor's decision had little to nothing to do with Buzz Williams, because he himself (again, not Hurley) said Buzz Williams would be the only reason for him to still come to MU at that point.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why you choose to ignore what Taylor himself said. Oh wait, I know ... it contradicts what you're saying.

The difference is Rosiak on 4/2/08 did not know the facts in a fluid & changing situation

You cannot be serious. Rosiak did not know the facts????
Rosiak was reporting what Taylor told him. What other facts are you speaking of? Taylor made clear within hours of Crean's departure he wanted out, and he never wavered from that.

Simply put, you were wrong when you said Taylor asked to be released on the evening of 4/1.  Perhaps in the heat of the moment he told a reporter that he would.  But the truth is that he did not do so until 4/16.  

Is this the best you got? You're going to hang your argument on process and semantics? The fact is, there were numerous attempts by Taylor and his people to file formal requests seeking his release prior to April 16. Their intent was clear. What was not clear, to them at least, was the process, and that confusion is what delayed matters until April 16.
This line of argument is shameless.
But even following your line of reasoning, what difference does it make? Fine, Tyshawn Taylor did not correctly file the formal paperwork seeking a release from his commitment on immediately after TC's departure. He only made clear through multiple outlets on repeated occasions that that is what he was seeking.
Huge difference.


Of course, you continue to ignore Taylor's statements that he would only come to MU for Buzz. Obviously, you must. It doesn't fit into the claim that he never wanted to play for Buzz.
And you conveniently left out this from a link you posted:

I followed that up by asking the New Jersey star if he would like to see one of the assistants hired, to which he said: "I think that would be nice. . . . I fell in love with those guys. . . . I doubt that any of the assistants would get hired, but it would be nice." He specifically mentioned Brent Williams, the coach that recruited him along with Crean.
http://northstarbasketball.blogspot.com/2008/04/update-on-tyshawn-taylor.html

Yep, sounds like a guy who backed out of his commitment because of Buzz.

[Pakuni]

Actually, this is not true. Anyone here in Jersey knows that Kansas was always Taylor's school of choice. During recruiting, KU only sniffed, never offered, because they were stacked until a perfect chain of events occurred with them winning the title and all their guards leaving as well as Crean leaving for Indiana.

Once the second shoe dropped with Crean, Taylor was always going to go to Kansas no matter who the new coach was at Marquette whether it be Buzz, Bob McKillop, Brad Brownell, God, Muhammad, or Moses.

Thank you.
This is exactly what happened. The kid got a better offer and he took it. It had much less to do with Buzz Williams and Marquette than it did Bill Self and Kansas.
And Taylor's coach ran cover for him, allowing himself to be the bad guy for the sake of his player and, let's face it, it's another feather in his cap to have a kid at Kansas.

[Marquette84]

Why are you obsessed with the date he formally filed the correct paperwork? It's irrelevant. What is relevant is that:
a) Taylor (not just Hurley, as you claim) made clear within hours of Crean's departure that he wanted out of his commitment.
b) Taylor's decision had little to nothing to do with Buzz Williams, because he himself (again, not Hurley) said Buzz Williams would be the only reason for him to still come to MU at that point.

The issue here is whether Crean left the cupboard bare.  Buzz was able to convince two of four recruits to remain with him (Fulce & Otule), and failed on two others (Taylor and N. Williams).  He also failed to retain Mbakwe, Hazel and Christopherson.    

Your implication that Buzz never had a chance because Taylor cut ties with MU on 4/1 is false.  

Its abundantly clear that Taylor gave Buzz a chance to recruit him, that Buzz tried to do just that--travelling to visit him on 4/10 and speaking with him, his mother and his step dad "all the time",  but in the end was unable to seal the deal.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why you choose to ignore what Taylor himself said. Oh wait, I know ... it contradicts what you're saying.

I happen to believe that actions speak louder than words--especially in light of conflicting statements.

You are singling out one quote, and pretending that none of the other statements were made.

For the life of me, I cannot figure out why you choose to ignore what Taylor himself actually did, as well his other contradictory quotes.  

Oh wait, I know . . .it contradicts what YOU'RE saying.  

You cannot be serious. Rosiak did not know the facts????
Rosiak was reporting what Taylor told him. What other facts are you speaking of? Taylor made clear within hours of Crean's departure he wanted out, and he never wavered from that.

Of course he didn't, because the facts were based on events that had not yet taken place!!!

Rosiak couldn't possibly have known the fact that Taylor would make several contradictory statements after his interview with Rosiak experessing continued interest in MU.  

He couldn't possibly have known that Buzz would be named coach, or travel on 4/10 to meet with Taylor, his coach and his family.  

He couldn't possibly have known that Taylor would not ultimately request a release until 4/16.

and he never wavered from that.

Yes he did. You just choose to ignore those statements because, well, it contradicts what you're saying.

You're going to hang your argument on process and semantics? The fact is, there were numerous attempts by Taylor and his people to file formal requests seeking his release prior to April 16. Their intent was clear. What was not clear, to them at least, was the process, and that confusion is what delayed matters until April 16.

Here is the form--it's pretty simple:
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/e9d8b7004e0dc6e094f2f41ad6fc8b25/Release+Request+Form+9.24.08).pdf?MOD=AJPERES&CACHEID=e9d8b7004e0dc6e094f2f41ad6fc8b25


It took me about 10 seconds to find this online.  I can't imagine it would take Bob Hurley more than 30 seconds to tell Tyshawn that he had to fill it out and get a parent to sign it.

But I guess you're going to hang your hat on the fact that it took 15 days for Tyshawn and his coach to figure out how to complete this simple form.

But even following your line of reasoning, what difference does it make? Fine, Tyshawn Taylor did not correctly file the formal paperwork seeking a release from his commitment on immediately after TC's departure. He only made clear through multiple outlets on repeated occasions that that is what he was seeking.
Huge difference.

Again, actions speak louder than words-- especially when the words contradict themselves from one day to the next.

When you look at the release form, you cannot possibly believe that it is so complex that it required two weeks to complete.

So yes, there is a huge difference between a comment made in the heat of the moment, and a two week process of actions and words that contradict that one statement.

[Lennys Tap]

Thank you.
This is exactly what happened. The kid got a better offer and he took it. It had much less to do with Buzz Williams and Marquette than it did Bill Self and Kansas.
And Taylor's coach ran cover for him, allowing himself to be the bad guy for the sake of his player and, let's face it, it's another feather in his cap to have a kid at Kansas.

You know it, I know it, Avalance knows it. Basically everyone but 84 and Chicos knows it. Seems to happen with an alarming frequency.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You know it, I know it, Avalance knows it. Basically everyone but 84 and Chicos knows it. Seems to happen with an alarming frequency.

Excuse me, where did ANYONE say he didn't get a great offer from Kansas?  No one said otherwise.  What happens with alarming frequency, however, is your inability to correctly state those facts.  Someone, Pakuni or someone said he didn't want to play for Marquette.  This is patently WRONG.  The kid SIGNED to play at Marquette, so to say he didn't want to play is just wrong.  The issue is who he wanted to play for.  He wanted to play for Crean AT MARQUETTE, not Buzz AT MARQUETTE, not Crean AT INDIANA.  When Crean left, that certainly opened the door for him, no one has said otherwise. 

Buzz tried to get him to stay, but the kid didn't want to play for Buzz nor did his high school coach want him to play for Buzz.  Can you blame him?  Buzz was totally unknown, had no history worth crowing about as a DI head coach, would you put your potential NBA talents in his hands at that stage of your life?  Some would, he chose not to.

But that didn't stop Buzz from trying to get him to come to MU and it certainly didn't stop TT from taking Buzz's calls and visits, did it? 

[ChicosBailBonds]

SC's first six games: 22.8 minutes, 6.7 attempts, 10.2 points
SC's last four games: 19.8 minutes, 2.5 attempts, 4.0 points.

Nope, nothing to see here.

Yup, he's gone down a whole 3 minutes per game....damn, he's nearly riding the bench.     The coach is so disillusioned with him now, he's only playing 50% of the game instead of 57%.  You crack me up.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sigh ... let's go over this very slowly, Chico's.
Afternoon of April 1, 2008 ... TC leaves Marquette for Indiana.
Evening of April 1, 2008 ... Tyshawn Taylor asks out of his commitment.
April 9, 2008 ... Marquette announces Buzz Williams as its new head coach.

Taylor asked out of his Marquette commitment eight days before Buzz was named coach, and just hours after Crean left.
Now, knowing these facts are you really going to stand by this notion that the reason Tyshawn Taylor isn't at Marquette is because he didn't want to play for Buzz Williams? Did he somehow know just hours afterwards that Buzz was going to be named the next coach?

Then why did Taylor ask out of his commitment even before he knew who the coach would be?
Call it nonsense all you like, but the facts are the facts.

Ummmm .... no. Because I'm a smart enough guy to know Indiana was placed on probation in November 2008, seven months after Taylor and Christopherson chose to go elsewhere, and three months after Mbakwe did. And that probation was devastating .... no loss of postseason play, the loss of one scholarship for one year and a public reprimand. Gasp! A virtual death penalty.

But you're right ... no way Scott Christopherson or Trevor Mbakwe would want to sit out a year at a school that's on probation. I mean, what fun is it sitting on the bench for a team on probation, as opposed to playing in the exciting world of JUCO or sitting on the bench in Ames, Iowa? I mean, sure, Iowa State wasn't much better than Indiana last year, but at least they weren't on probation.
Of course, Nick Williams didn't mind so much. Until he was shown the door, that is.

Please, get your facts straight.
From Tyshawn Taylor Q&A in Zags blog, April 10, 2008:

Q: What kind of relationship do you have with Coach Williams?

A: He recruited me. I had a better relationship with him than with Coach Crean.

"Q: What are you concerned about at Marquette going forward?

A: I want to know how many minutes I would play this year. They have a lot of guards. I know three of them are going to be seniors, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthew, and Dominic James. David Cubilllan and Maurice Acker are on the bench. That's five guards.  Nick Williams asked for his released before we knew who the coach was going to be. That's six guards not including me."

Yeah, it's naive and silly to deal with facts. Much better to make up stuff about Indiana being on probation when those kids decided not to go there or how Tyshawn Taylor never knew Buzz Williams.

I'd go into it line by line the areas you "forgot" to mention, but 84 did a great job so no need to do it again.  Your timelines conveniently left out a lot, go figure.

[ChicosBailBonds]

chicos i cannot disagree with you on the kids that left.  but that really has nothing to do with the fact of why is Crean offering scholarships to Acker and Cubes and chrsitopherson another one who left.

Simple yes or no question...are Acker and Cubes big east caliber players?


another simple yes or no questions... from waht you have seen since 4/8/2008.  would Buzz Williams have offered those two guys?  (acker and cubes)?

Sorry that I skipped over your question...I do not think he would offer Acker or Cubes.  They are not the type of players that Buzz seems to like.  On the other hand, there was a reason MU took Acker.  He was recommended by Jerel McNeal and Tim Buckley.  I'm glad we have him this year or we would be even more screwed.  Sometimes you have to recruit a few kids for cohesiveness that are willing to be practice players or spot players, not everyone can be a 4 or 5 star recruit IMO

[Marquette84]

Sorry that I skipped over your question...I do not think he would offer Acker or Cubes.  They are not the type of players that Buzz seems to like.  On the other hand, there was a reason MU took Acker.  He was recommended by Jerel McNeal and Tim Buckley.  I'm glad we have him this year or we would be even more screwed.  Sometimes you have to recruit a few kids for cohesiveness that are willing to be practice players or spot players, not everyone can be a 4 or 5 star recruit IMO

Buzz actually did offer Acker and Cubillan.  Twice each.  Scholarships are renewable.  Buzz chose to renew both their scholarships for both 08-09 and 09-10.   Compare those actions to Roseboro.