Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 21, 2025, 09:46:36 PMProbably years of seeing Wisconsin have success doing it for about 25 years..

Nope, nope, nope.
Made this same point in another thread. Bo Ryan's "projects" were by and large four-star, top 100 recruits, not zero stars he was snaring away from prep schools and low majors.
Copy/pasting from the other thread ...

Bo Ryan's developmental bigs:
Brian Butch, 5-star, McDonald's AA, RSCI #7
Greg Steinsma, 4-star, RSCI #37
Jon Leuer, 4-star, RSCI #87
JP Gavinski, 4-star, #92 on 247 Composite
Jared Berggren, RSCI #100, 4-star
Evan Anderson, RSCI #95, 4-star
Frank Kaminsky, 3-star, 247
Ethan Happ, 3-star, 247 #150

All of these "developmental" guys, with the exception of Kaminsky and Happ, were top 100 players recruited by high-major programs. Kaminsky had offers from other P5 programs and in Happ's case, he grew three inches from high school to college, so he was seen coming out as a kind of unathletic 3/4 who developed into a crafty/skilled post player when he got tall.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 21, 2025, 09:32:11 PMCaedin was known to be a 5 year project. I don't see it as doubling down/tripling down by staying the course on him.  He's just at the mid-point of his development at MU. I think he is better than what he has shown.  He's pressing a ton and sped up, trying to prove he belongs and is a mess mentally.  Think the whole team is pressing for that matter.

I just find ripping the crap out of Shaka for one bad year incredibly ignorant and classless considering he brought a better resume to the job than any MU hire in history - and massively exceeded expectations in Years 1-3, met expectations in Year 4.

I understand this season has been brutal, we've gotten blown out repeatedly. Yet it was the stress test of RGV, and I feel the players have largely been the ones who haven't performed - and from that underperformance Shaka has gotten into the spin cycle grasping for straws to try to improve the performance. 

There's nothing Shaka can do during the season - other than do what he's done - trying to tinker with lineups.  To jump to the conclusion that he won't do anything different this off season is pure speculation at best.

Like Pakuni said, I don't blame Caedin. He seems like a decent kid, great teammate, etc. I just don't think he's very good at basketball, and has never really shown himself capable. My larger point though, is why are we at a place where he's starting? The idea that Shaka could be the one high major coach who could eschew the portal was ludicrous. Everyone whiffs on high school recruits; I don't want Marquette's coach to be the only one who drags his bat back to the dugout while everyone else takes another crack at it.

I like Shaka, but my larger point was that there were choices made over multiple years that led us here. This isn't a fluke. He made some mistakes (like all coaches do), and yet Tre Norman is still getting an NIL check. And it's been repeated ad nauseam, but those teams in year 1-3 had transfers.

I'm not writing him off, and I do think it's possible that he rights the ship. I think his recruiting has improved. But he's gonna need to eat some crow and not run these third years back next year.

Quote from: Johnny B on December 21, 2025, 09:36:50 PMWhat the hell is the point of seeking out a "5 year project". Seems like massive amounts of resources and time for very little to no pay off.

Probably years of seeing Wisconsin have success doing it for about 25 years..

Quote from: Pakuni on December 21, 2025, 09:08:10 PM"Huh?" Derrick Wilson, probably.

Derrick Wilson had no business playing D-1 basketball.  No guard in D-1 should be so disrespected that defenders play off 5 feet.  That aside, my criticism of him was almost all directed at Buzz and Wojo, and those Scoopers who tried to suggest he was deserving of 30+ minutes per game.

Caedin Hamilton is more worthy of a D-1 scholarship than was Derrick Wilson. Tre Norman's numbers are better than Derrick's FFS.  Imagine if Shaka started playing Tre 30 minutes night in night out....Scoop would implode.

What the hell is the point of seeking out a "5 year project". Seems like massive amounts of resources and time for very little to no pay off.

Quote from: Small Orange Soda on December 21, 2025, 07:08:31 PMI know he's been everyone's favorite whipping boy, from the biggest haters to the most optimistic, but the process over multiple years that has led to Caedin Hamilton being our starting center is the prime example of Shaka doubling and tripling down on a guy he absolutely shouldn't have.

Shaka takes a project in Itejere that he likely shouldn't have. After two years, it doesn't work out. The smart move would be to replace him with a guy with experience, since all of a sudden there's a two year development hole with that roster spot. Instead, he takes a zero star recruit in Caedin Hamilton who we beat out a prep school for. I could also never dream of playing at the D1 level, but that didn't seem like a great idea.

So Caedin comes in and redshirts as planned. No biggie, we got Oso. Still, looking forward it's concerning that there doesn't seem to be a bridge between Oso and Caedin. What Itejere or his equivalent replacement would've been.

So Oso goes to the NBA. It's clear that Caedin isn't ready. Last year's squad clearly could've used said bridge, but Shaka didn't bother. Things fall apart.

This year, it's clear Caedin still isn't ready. Shaka again doesn't bother. We enter the season with Caedin as our starting center. At no point in his career has Caedin shown he's suited for this level, yet here we are.

Shaka has doubled and tripled down on Caedin. He never should've been recruited, yet three years later he's starting for this terrible squad. In his third year he continues to be a detriment to this squad, yet over and over again, Shaka has made the wrong decision regarding him.

Itejere was a Top 100 recruit, who's rating obviously was too high.  It's entirely possible Shaka tried to recruit a higher level big the year Caedin was recruited, and he didn't land one - I don't recall.  MU hasn't had a long history of talented big men lining up to play here.  Additionally, as I recall, we were involved with Owen Freeman this past portal season, but he chose Creighton.

Caedin was known to be a 5 year project. I don't see it as doubling down/tripling down by staying the course on him.  He's just at the mid-point of his development at MU. I think he is better than what he has shown.  He's pressing a ton and sped up, trying to prove he belongs and is a mess mentally.  Think the whole team is pressing for that matter.

I just find ripping the crap out of Shaka for one bad year incredibly ignorant and classless considering he brought a better resume to the job than any MU hire in history - and massively exceeded expectations in Years 1-3, met expectations in Year 4.

I understand this season has been brutal, we've gotten blown out repeatedly. Yet it was the stress test of RGV, and I feel the players have largely been the ones who haven't performed - and from that underperformance Shaka has gotten into the spin cycle grasping for straws to try to improve the performance. 

There's nothing Shaka can do during the season - other than do what he's done - trying to tinker with lineups.  To jump to the conclusion that he won't do anything different this off season is pure speculation at best.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 21, 2025, 03:38:41 PMa level in which you could never possibly dream of playing in, in your wildest dreams - yet have no problem absolutely trashing our players?

"Huh?" Derrick Wilson, probably.

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on December 21, 2025, 07:36:19 PMAgreed, but I'm more annoyed by the TeSlaa penalty on the ASB TD

It was so close. He wasn't much beyond a yard.

Quote from: CreightonWarrior on December 20, 2025, 12:20:06 PMAvatar 3 is virtually a Copy + Paste of Avatar 2. Incredible visuals as usual but very boring storyline. Quaritch character is the star.

I think it was pretty clear with the second Avatar that Cameron's only interest in non-documentary movies anymore was cool visual effects/shooting.  For someone who has always written his movies, not just directed them, he is terribly out of practice.  Up until the 2 Avatar sequels, he wrote 2 movies/screenplays in the 25 years since Titanic.  One was Avatar, the other was the random Terminator sequel that was a horrific box office bomb.  He's still absolutely brilliant behind the camera, but I don't think he has much storytelling chops anymore, its not his focus.

SOS nailed it.
This isn't bashing Caedin. I don't doubt he's tried/trying his best and has put in all the work. But reality is, the vast majority of human beings aren't capable of playing high-major college basketball, no matter how hard they try. Caedin, through no fault of his own, sure seems to be among that vast majority.
That Shaka and staff either can't see that or can see it, but have messed up the roster so badly they have to play him anyhow, is what deserves the criticism here, not Caedin.