MUScoop

MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: wadesworld on April 21, 2022, 09:50:00 PM

Title: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on April 21, 2022, 09:50:00 PM
My girlfriend and her parents are down in Columbia, MO house hunting for her new job that she will start in August. We just offered $40K over asking price on a house plus agreed to let the owners stay in the house 2 months beyond the closing date and they went with a different offer. We have 3 other houses in mind and plan to make an even more aggressive offer on one tomorrow, but our agent thinks the owners are just trying to set up a bidding war on it (Zestimate is $633K, in a desirable neighborhood, they’re asking $460K so doesn’t make much sense).

We’ll both be first time home owners. Any tips for offers in today’s housing market? Besides putting in a cash offer, as that isn’t an option for us right now (we can put 20% down and are pre approved for more than what we thought we’d need). Our agent definitely thought we made a good offer on the one we didn’t get today.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on April 21, 2022, 10:06:54 PM
No advice, just saying hang in there and I feel ya.

My daughter and her husband live in Seattle and are going through the exact same thing. I know several people in Charlotte going through it too. It's crazy out there. Good luck, wades!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MuggsyB on April 21, 2022, 10:11:46 PM
My girlfriend and her parents are down in Columbia, MO house hunting for her new job that she will start in August. We just offered $40K over asking price on a house plus agreed to let the owners stay in the house 2 months beyond the closing date and they went with a different offer. We have 3 other houses in mind and plan to make an even more aggressive offer on one tomorrow, but our agent thinks the owners are just trying to set up a bidding war on it (Zestimate is $633K, in a desirable neighborhood, they’re asking $460K so doesn’t make much sense).

We’ll both be first time home owners. Any tips for offers in today’s housing market? Besides putting in a cash offer, as that isn’t an option for us right now (we can put 20% down and are pre approved for more than what we thought we’d need). Our agent definitely thought we made a good offer on the one we didn’t get today.

I would consider waiting.  It's completely insane right now.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on April 21, 2022, 10:13:47 PM
I would consider waiting.  It's completely insane right now.

Typically, as mortgage rates move up, there's a rush of buying for people trying to get in before rates go higher ... and then the market cools some.

But this market is so crazy that it's hard to know what's gonna happen. Eventually the bubble will burst, at least in some parts of the country, but when and where and how "burst-y" it'll be nobody knows.

EDIT: Just stumbled across a new article on this subject, with Zillow predicting home prices won't go up quite as much as earlier forecasts because of quick-rising mortgage rates. And other housing analysts say prices won't even go up nearly as much as Zillow says:

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/home-prices-look-2023-according-205714287.html
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MuggsyB on April 21, 2022, 10:24:15 PM
Typically, as mortgage rates move up, there's a rush of buying for people trying to get in before rates go higher ... and then the market cools some.

But this market is so crazy that it's hard to know what's gonna happen. Eventually the bubble will burst, at least in some parts of the country, but when and where and how "burst-y" it'll be nobody knows.

There's no way to predict when it will burst.  My opinion is if you're certain about where you want to live for 10+ years and can afford to buy it will be alright.  At the same time this of course isn't sustainable and it pretty ubiquitous. 

Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on April 21, 2022, 10:41:41 PM
The Milwaukee market slowed way down from around October to February. Not sure if waiting is an option or if weather impacts Missouri as much, but school being in session and weather being less move friendly slowed things.

We bought in August, going $15k over asking and got it, I think because we waived the inspection and were able to bring 20% cash. But the timing hurt us because we sold our old house when the market slowed and we were stretched too thin to wait until spring not knowing if the market would bounce right back.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MUeng on April 21, 2022, 10:56:06 PM
It's risky but you could try inserting an escalation clause in your offer or waiving the inspection. You could also just do a health and safety inspection if you're too uncomfortable with waiving altogether. Crazy market, good luck, try not to let emotion get too involved
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: forgetful on April 21, 2022, 11:36:47 PM
I would consider waiting.  It's completely insane right now.

The problem is, a lot of this is driven by hedge funds, and big money investors. They know if they control the market, they set rates and can make a profit.

This is what happened in California, Toronto, and many other places first.

I'm not sure this ends soon. The goal is to control the market to the point that people have to pay absurd rental prices.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Jockey on April 22, 2022, 12:04:27 AM
The problem is, a lot of this is driven by hedge funds, and big money investors. They know if they control the market, they set rates and can make a profit.

This is what happened in California, Toronto, and many other places first.

I'm not sure this ends soon. The goal is to control the market to the point that people have to pay absurd rental prices.

Over 20% now are bought by investors/ hedge funds.

Just one more instance of the ultra-rich eating America.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MuggsyB on April 22, 2022, 12:12:35 AM
Over 20% now are bought by investors/ hedge funds.

Just one more instance of the ultra-rich eating America.

In the country or major cities?  I know it's definitely bad.  It seems like there are zoning problems as well in downtown areas. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2022, 12:22:19 AM
Advice?  As I alluded in the retirement thread...buy what you need today, not what you think you need in 5 years.  If you can afford a crappy 1BR 1BA house (in an OK neighborhood), buy it now.  In a few years of paying it off, you can probably buy another house that will suit your needs at that time, and rent out the first at more than more than your mortgage payment.

Don't get trapped into buying too much house today for the unknown future.  Most people move several times - don't throw money at the "forever" house that will only last a few years.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MuggsyB on April 22, 2022, 12:26:23 AM
Advice?  As I alluded in the retirement thread...buy what you need today, not what you think you need in 5 years.  If you can afford a crappy 1BR 1BA house (in an OK neighborhood), buy it now.  In a few years of paying it off, you can probably buy another house that will suit your needs at that time, and rent out the first at more than more than your mortgage payment.

Don't get trapped into buying too much house today for the unknown future.  Most people move several times - don't throw money at the "forever" house that will only last a few years.

Excellent advice.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on April 22, 2022, 04:19:08 AM
The problem is, a lot of this is driven by hedge funds, and big money investors. They know if they control the market, they set rates and can make a profit.

This is what happened in California, Toronto, and many other places first.

I'm not sure this ends soon. The goal is to control the market to the point that people have to pay absurd rental prices.

What you describing is happening in a few markets but likely not in Columbia, MO. The issues in Wisconsin for instance are due to lack of housing stock and is centered on a few markets. Builders have been doing more renovations than new building because people are sitting at home with cash and finally want to fix up that bathroom or add that sunroom.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: jesmu84 on April 22, 2022, 05:02:08 AM
Recently, freakonomics podcast had 2 tips for current housing searches:

1. Don't use a buyer's agent.
2. Write a letter to the seller describing yourself and your situation/reason for wanting the house.

No idea if either would help you, but worth a shot.

I can imagine paying the ridiculous prices right now. Skipping inspection? No chance I'd ever agree to that
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 22, 2022, 06:26:13 AM
I would consider waiting.  It's completely insane right now.

Inventory is low.  I'm not sure housing prices will go down for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 22, 2022, 06:27:58 AM
My girlfriend and her parents are down in Columbia, MO house hunting for her new job that she will start in August. We just offered $40K over asking price on a house plus agreed to let the owners stay in the house 2 months beyond the closing date and they went with a different offer. We have 3 other houses in mind and plan to make an even more aggressive offer on one tomorrow, but our agent thinks the owners are just trying to set up a bidding war on it (Zestimate is $633K, in a desirable neighborhood, they’re asking $460K so doesn’t make much sense).

We’ll both be first time home owners. Any tips for offers in today’s housing market? Besides putting in a cash offer, as that isn’t an option for us right now (we can put 20% down and are pre approved for more than what we thought we’d need). Our agent definitely thought we made a good offer on the one we didn’t get today.

Welcome to the crap show.  I have two sets of friends who both had similar situations.  Eventually, both found something... but they're both fixer uppers.  And they overpaid. 

There were people in Madison writing (ridiculous) 'love' letters to the sellers telling their story.  Basically, a "Pick us!" essay.  Good luck out there.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: dgies9156 on April 22, 2022, 07:02:43 AM
We're closing on our new home Tuesday. We sold our existing home in Indian River County, FL and bought a new "forever" home three miles closer to town. We bid over ask and the only contingency in the contract was an inspection walk-away contingency. We had not sold our home down here yet and ran the risk we would own three homes (a third is in the Chicago suburbs).

Cash offers only mean that you'll produce cash at close They don't care how you get it, as long as you have it at close. Our cash offer included financing (short-term) from Chase. We had no financing contingency but felt confident we could get the money we needed. Maybe it is because I work in finance, but I knew what the banks would lend us and the terms under which they'd lend. Also, we put a massive amount of funds in earnest money (escrow).

My view is absent a market correction, you're going to have to take risk somewhere to get what you want. Make sure you have financing in place before hand. If you're bidding over market, you may need a bigger down payment because the home may not appraise out for what you pay. Review the comps closely (including those used on the tax assessment) and make sure your closing cost estimates are comprehensive. 

Finally, do an amortization of the loan and check on any potential tax benefit. Don't forget the SALT limitations though!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on April 22, 2022, 07:50:06 AM
Recently, freakonomics podcast had 2 tips for current housing searches:

1. Don't use a buyer's agent.
2. Write a letter to the seller describing yourself and your situation/reason for wanting the house.

No idea if either would help you, but worth a shot.

I can imagine paying the ridiculous prices right now. Skipping inspection? No chance I'd ever agree to that


If you are moving to an area new to you, I don't know if I agree with #1.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2022, 08:30:33 AM
A couple that I know is combining this thread with the retirement thread. Unfortunately, they have not been good about their retirement planning. At all. So, they're selling their home right now hoping to make a killing. The person they're working with seems to think a bidding war is possible. For their sake, I hope she's right. It's way too little and way too late, but at this point it's what they've got. I feel for the buyers out there right now, but I hope that this couple gets a good price. Because if I was in their shoes right now vis a vis retirement...I'd be terrified. Hell, even if the house sells for well over asking, I'd be terrified, but that's another issue.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on April 22, 2022, 08:41:13 AM
I would agree it's a crap shoot.  I've got clients making offers with escalation clauses, appraisal gap riders with no ceiling, inspection waivers, open ended closing and possession dates, and still lose the house.  I'm not a fan of an appraisal gap with no ceiling, but people are doing it.  Some are putting in their offers without seeing the house, then getting their offer accepted and turning around and terminating it during attorney review if they don't like it when finally seeing it in person.

Unfortunately, there's no magic answer for getting your offer accepted. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on April 22, 2022, 08:54:51 AM
Thanks for all of the information and advice.

We did try for an escalation clause, but the seller's agent said they just wanted best offers by noon so we put ours in.  I think our agent even thought we were offering too much, but we still didn't get the house.  Which is probably good news for us overall.  Our agent seemed to think our offer was plenty good, so if we can put in a similar offer on another house that we like hopefully it will work out better for us.  From the sounds of it, there were only 3 offers on the house, which is much better than some of the stories I've heard about Wauwatosa and some Chicago suburbs.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: NCMUFan on April 22, 2022, 09:21:00 AM
Is the way to go to find a lot and have a contractor build?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: muwarrior69 on April 22, 2022, 09:24:12 AM
A couple that I know is combining this thread with the retirement thread. Unfortunately, they have not been good about their retirement planning. At all. So, they're selling their home right now hoping to make a killing. The person they're working with seems to think a bidding war is possible. For their sake, I hope she's right. It's way too little and way too late, but at this point it's what they've got. I feel for the buyers out there right now, but I hope that this couple gets a good price. Because if I was in their shoes right now vis a vis retirement...I'd be terrified. Hell, even if the house sells for well over asking, I'd be terrified, but that's another issue.

Have you looked at "private sales"? There are folks that need to sell quickly so they go through an "agent" that looks for customers that want to buy quickly as well. These homes are not usually listed and the seller just wants an honest price for their home and some don't want the hassle of a bidding war. I would say just google private sales in your area and you might strike  gold; just a thought.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MUBurrow on April 22, 2022, 09:29:50 AM
Advice?  As I alluded in the retirement thread...buy what you need today, not what you think you need in 5 years.  If you can afford a crappy 1BR 1BA house (in an OK neighborhood), buy it now.  In a few years of paying it off, you can probably buy another house that will suit your needs at that time, and rent out the first at more than more than your mortgage payment.

Don't get trapped into buying too much house today for the unknown future.  Most people move several times - don't throw money at the "forever" house that will only last a few years.

This is really good advice.  I bought my first house a little earlier than I'd planned about 8 years ago, and spent a lot of time, energy, and some money trying to forecast what this version of me would want.  I'm still in the house and happy enough with it, but not for any of the reasons I would have guessed at the time.  When you start having to leave house "wants" on the cutting room floor in favor of "needs" don't forecast out any further than 3 years.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: jficke13 on April 22, 2022, 09:30:24 AM
Recently, freakonomics podcast had 2 tips for current housing searches:

1. Don't use a buyer's agent.
2. Write a letter to the seller describing yourself and your situation/reason for wanting the house.

No idea if either would help you, but worth a shot.

I can imagine paying the ridiculous prices right now. Skipping inspection? No chance I'd ever agree to that

We went through the ringer of homebuying a threeish years ago. Bid more than asking and got outbid on so many houses that I lost count (high teens minimum). We got this whole "write a letter" advice too and while we did it, it makes no dang sense to me. When I'm selling my house I'm taking the highest $, I don't care about you wanting a yard for your puppy to run around in. Do sellers actually take these things into account?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on April 22, 2022, 09:34:48 AM
I've heard the love letters are more for houses not on the market in hopes that you find someone who's about to sell and just contacts you directly instead of putting it on the market. I know one person who it actually worked for
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on April 22, 2022, 09:43:01 AM
We went through the ringer of homebuying a threeish years ago. Bid more than asking and got outbid on so many houses that I lost count (high teens minimum). We got this whole "write a letter" advice too and while we did it, it makes no dang sense to me. When I'm selling my house I'm taking the highest $, I don't care about you wanting a yard for your puppy to run around in. Do sellers actually take these things into account?

We had letter writing recommended to us by more than one person.  We asked our agent about it and she actually said while it's not illegal, it's kind of unethical and can create some bias in the selling process.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2022, 09:43:27 AM
Have you looked at "private sales"? There are folks that need to sell quickly so they go through an "agent" that looks for customers that want to buy quickly as well. These homes are not usually listed and the seller just wants an honest price for their home and some don't want the hassle of a bidding war. I would say just google private sales in your area and you might strike  gold; just a thought.

I might be misunderstanding your point. They are actually hoping for a bidding war and that a lot of people will be interested and will drive the price up. Can't the seller always end the "hassle of a bidding war" at any point by accepting an offer?

Honestly, it's a very simple, humble house. It's appreciated quite a lot since they purchased it 25 years ago, but even in this market it's probably not even a $500k home. But it's a nice house and I hope they find some people who love it and will pay them for it. They're planning to list within a week or so.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2022, 09:47:28 AM
We had letter writing recommended to us by more than one person.  We asked our agent about it and she actually said while it's not illegal, it's kind of unethical and can create some bias in the selling process.

Interesting. Of course it can create some bias in the selling process...that's the point. I'm having a really hard time understanding why that could possibly be unethical. I've never done it and, like jficke13, wonder why it would work, but it doesn't seem like an ethics situation to me at all.  Unless, of course, you think that the ethical position is to ensure the highest price (and fee) possible.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MUBurrow on April 22, 2022, 09:52:50 AM
Interesting. Of course it can create some bias in the selling process...that's the point. I'm having a really hard time understanding why that could possibly be unethical. I've never done it and, like jficke13, wonder why it would work, but it doesn't seem like an ethics situation to me at all.  Unless, of course, you think that the ethical position is to ensure the highest price (and fee) possible.

I don't know this for sure, but given the (appropriate) sensitivity around historically racist residential real estate practices, I can understand if agents are uneasy about sellers taking into account certain characteristics of their buyers rather than just taking the best economic offer.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on April 22, 2022, 09:56:43 AM
We once bought a house from a couple who were selling without a realtor.  The whole process went fine, with just a couple small hiccups (per usual), but at the closing they congratulated us and said "we are glad we are selling to the right family."  That creeped us out a bit.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on April 22, 2022, 10:08:37 AM
We went through the ringer of homebuying a threeish years ago. Bid more than asking and got outbid on so many houses that I lost count (high teens minimum). We got this whole "write a letter" advice too and while we did it, it makes no dang sense to me. When I'm selling my house I'm taking the highest $, I don't care about you wanting a yard for your puppy to run around in. Do sellers actually take these things into account?
For a lot of people selling the home they raised their family in for many years is a very emotional decision and process.  I could see how a seller might give preference to a slightly lower (but competitive) offer if they knew the buyer was a younger family that would be raising children in the home. 

I'm not saying I would do that, but I might.  But, it's easy to say that when the house we bought 4 years ago would probably sell for close to double what we paid for it and almost 150% what we still owe on it.  I could afford to be choosy for emotional reasons if I wanted to.

Also need to consider the fact that many people writing letters are probably full of sh*t and are writing what they think sellers want to hear rather than the truth. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 22, 2022, 10:14:37 AM
If I got a sappy letter about my goddammed house, that jackass is going to the bottom of the pile of offers.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: jficke13 on April 22, 2022, 10:15:18 AM
Who knows, I guess it's hard to imagine that letter writing could possibly hurt you, so it's on balance a low cost potentially high reward strategy (even if it's one I think is rather silly). So pen to paper, puppies, kiddos, yards, give 'em the works.

More to the point, I'm afraid I don't have any good advice besides offer more and offer on lots of houses. Fire enough bullets and eventually one is bound to land. Sucks though.

Good luck.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: jficke13 on April 22, 2022, 10:16:08 AM
If I got a sappy letter about my goddammed house, that jackass is going to the bottom of the pile of offers.

lol, cross posted with my last one. I guess there are some people where the letter would do harm.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 22, 2022, 10:17:28 AM
lol, cross posted with my last one. I guess there are some people where the letter would do harm.

I remember the letter you wrote me in crayon.  Only moved you to 2nd bottom.  ;D
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2022, 10:18:40 AM
If I got a sappy letter about my goddammed house, that jackass is going to the bottom of the pile of offers.

What if it's from Joey?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 22, 2022, 10:19:20 AM
What if it's from Joey?

Joey is lookin at buying Nads' house.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on April 22, 2022, 10:20:15 AM
What if it's from Joey?

Then it would most certainly be in crayon.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: mu_hilltopper on April 22, 2022, 10:21:41 AM
Understood about creating bias when writing a letter to the sellers .. that is indeed the point.

Speaking for myself, (but likely 90% of all others) .. I am more emotionally attached to my home than any other item I possess.  I've poured so much sweat and tears into it, the windows, the doors, the roof, the trees, the neighborhood. 

I want to know who I am entrusting my home to for the future, and only looking at the dollars someone is giving me for it isn't nearly enough information.   Example: If the highest bidder wanted to cut down my trees, I would tell them to fock right off.

If they wanted to bulldoze it and turn it into an Arby's, I'd uh, well, hmm. Ok, that's a bad example.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on April 22, 2022, 10:21:48 AM
What if it's from Joey?
That offer would go right in the trash.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: dgies9156 on April 22, 2022, 10:26:44 AM
I might be misunderstanding your point. They are actually hoping for a bidding war and that a lot of people will be interested and will drive the price up. Can't the seller always end the "hassle of a bidding war" at any point by accepting an offer?

Honestly, it's a very simple, humble house. It's appreciated quite a lot since they purchased it 25 years ago, but even in this market it's probably not even a $500k home. But it's a nice house and I hope they find some people who love it and will pay them for it. They're planning to list within a week or so.

We bid over ask on the home we are buying Tuesday. We did so in part because we R-E-A-L-L-Y wanted the house (though right now with packing, I'm not so sure).

We're in Florida and you see that where we live. Also, we did our analysis and think the real estate agent underpriced the ask price. Based on five other sales in the same neighborhood, we think we paid about $40.00 per square foot less than market. They had multiple offers after a three-day showing period.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on April 22, 2022, 10:30:47 AM
Understood about creating bias when writing a letter to the sellers .. that is indeed the point.

Speaking for myself, (but likely 90% of all others) .. I am more emotionally attached to my home than any other item I possess.  I've poured so much sweat and tears into it, the windows, the doors, the roof, the trees, the neighborhood. 

I want to know who I am entrusting my home to for the future, and only looking at the dollars someone is giving me for it isn't nearly enough information.   Example: If the highest bidder wanted to cut down my trees, I would tell them to fock right off.

If they wanted to bulldoze it and turn it into an Arby's, I'd uh, well, hmm. Ok, that's a bad example.


I doubt 90% of people are as emotionally connected to their house as you are.  But the longest I have owned a single house has been 12 years, and since that one was a bit of a bitch to sell, I was just really to get rid of it.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2022, 10:32:34 AM
I am more emotionally attached to my home than any other item I possess.

Hm, that's a terrible way to think about one of the biggest investments of your life.  I'm still a little emotionally attached to my first house, but nonetheless I rent it out like an high priced 'escort"
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 22, 2022, 10:36:20 AM
Joey is lookin at buying Nads' house.



If Joey really wants Nads' crib, he'd wise to show up at da front door with a vanilla ice cream cone from Leon's, aina?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: mu_hilltopper on April 22, 2022, 10:55:30 AM
I've lived in my house, my first, for 24 years now.  Brought a wife home, brought two infants, two pets home.   It's not an investment, it's my home.

I have no problem having a 2nd home, but we have zero plan for moving ever.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: jesmu84 on April 22, 2022, 10:55:53 AM
Commidification/financialization of items like housing is bad for society.

Re:letter - if I knew I was selling to a family vs hedge fund, family would absolutely get preference.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on April 22, 2022, 10:59:58 AM
I've lived in my house, my first, for 24 years now.  Brought a wife home, brought two infants, two pets home.   It's not an investment, it's my home.

I have no problem having a 2nd home, but we have zero plan for moving ever.


Honestly I am glad I am not that emotionally attached to my house.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 22, 2022, 11:04:33 AM
I feel for ya Wades, I managed to miss the housing boom cause I got lucky and bought in September 2020, but certainly feeling a similar effect looking for a new car right now.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: warriorchick on April 22, 2022, 11:06:53 AM
Who knows, I guess it's hard to imagine that letter writing could possibly hurt you.

Good luck.

Here's a couple of examples:

"The yard would be perfect to hold my daughter's quinceanera".

"I can just picture our Menorah in the bay window".
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on April 22, 2022, 11:17:27 AM
Here's a couple of examples:

"The yard would be perfect to hold my daughter's quinceanera".

"I can just picture our Menorah in the bay window".

We promise not to hang ornaments in our front yard trees.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: lawdog77 on April 22, 2022, 11:22:47 AM


If Joey really wants Nads' crib, he'd wise to show up at da front door with a vanilla ice cream cone from Leon's, aina?
Hes good as long as he doesnt tell him he will be putting up Christmas lights.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: tower912 on April 22, 2022, 11:23:17 AM
I made my daughter cry by telling her what we paid for our house in 1993.

I am amused by the number of cold call phone calls and mailers offering to sell our house for us.   
I do not envy those buying their first house today.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: cheebs09 on April 22, 2022, 11:45:30 AM
We had a friend sell their house in the last few years and they said the letters have graduated to videos now.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Spotcheck Billy on April 22, 2022, 11:49:03 AM
We had a friend sell their house in the last few years and they said the letters have graduated to videos now.

pr0n?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on April 22, 2022, 11:54:03 AM
If I got a sappy letter about my goddammed house, that jackass is going to the bottom of the pile of offers.

SAME
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2022, 11:57:05 AM
pr0n?

Zig would sell his house for $1 if he he got a batch of those videos.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: jficke13 on April 22, 2022, 12:05:31 PM
We had a friend sell their house in the last few years and they said the letters have graduated to videos now.

Sounds like hostage videos.

The fact that the letter does differentiate you from Blackrock (assuming Blackrock wouldn't just hire someone to write one) I guess might move the needle.

<shrug>

What I found infuriating was the fact that the sellers didn't actually engage in a negotiation. You list for X, you get offers of X, 1.1X, .9X, and 1.11X. Wtf are you doing not calling X and 1.1X and saying "that guy over there has you beat, wanna up your offer?" Why simply just grab the highest one and never try to actually get the bidding war going?

There were several houses where we were outbid but would have been willing to consider going a little higher if we had been engaged in a negotiation.

Anyway, residential real estate transactions suck. If there's anything to be said for a "forever" home is that you avoid having to do this nonsense again in a few years when your begging letter will be in the metaverse.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: JWags85 on April 22, 2022, 12:10:13 PM
We had a friend sell their house in the last few years and they said the letters have graduated to videos now.

My best friend and his wife just sold a condo in Wicker Park in Chicago.  Were shocked how fast they got offers.  They had 3 offers within a week, 2 above asking.  A couple made an offer, $25K under asking, knowing there were already multiple offers on the condo, and wrote a note how, not even kidding, they had their first kiss on a street corner...2 blocks over.  So the neighborhood had memories and then included some dumbass engagement video about it from their Knot page a year or so prior hoping it would help.  His wife has a tendency to be sappy and emotional and even her response was "are these idiots F'ing serious?"

Meanwhile they bought a house in the northern Chicago burbs that included the seller's agent hiding a competing offer in his back pocket that he sprung the day they planned to agree/sign to dissuade them from any contingencies and the 90 something year old seller insisting on discussing anything and everything IN PERSON with his broker and lawyer, so simple adjustments or changes to terms could take up to a week due to scheduling.  They nearly missed a lending deadline cause a winter storm came through Chicago and it made travel difficult and they couldn't do it on the phone.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2022, 12:13:00 PM
I'm still a little emotionally attached to my first house, but nonetheless I rent it out like an high priced 'escort"

By the hour?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on April 22, 2022, 12:15:42 PM
What I found infuriating was the fact that the sellers didn't actually engage in a negotiation. You list for X, you get offers of X, 1.1X, .9X, and 1.11X. Wtf are you doing not calling X and 1.1X and saying "that guy over there has you beat, wanna up your offer?" Why simply just grab the highest one and never try to actually get the bidding war going?


Many people don't like "haggling" whether it is buying or selling.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: drewm88 on April 22, 2022, 12:15:49 PM
I like Rocky's advice about buying what you need now, not what you expect to need in a few years. We were told during our buying process that the median first time homebuyer stays for under 5 years. (So also consider that 7 or 10-year ARM if you don't see yourself staying past that.)

Also, go for escalation clauses. They're not going to say no to more money.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: StillAWarrior on April 22, 2022, 12:18:35 PM
If I got a sappy letter about my goddammed house, that jackass is going to the bottom of the pile of offers.

I'd respond with a letter telling them how I plan to spend the money and that they could make everyone happy by upping their offer.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: rocky_warrior on April 22, 2022, 12:24:50 PM
By the hour?

Hah.  Guess I should work on my analogy!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on April 22, 2022, 12:28:41 PM
I would just be annoyed by receiving letters.

When I eventually sell my place, I’m gonna request to my realtor that he burns all letters/video so I never have to deal with them.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 22, 2022, 12:32:00 PM
I would just be annoyed by receiving letters.

When I eventually sell my place, I’m gonna request to my realtor that he burns all letters/video so I never have to deal with them.

That's the thing, I would just ignore them. Same with cover letters on resumes, or thank you notes after interviews in the workplace. They do not materially change the conversation.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on April 22, 2022, 12:33:25 PM
Cover letters are more important than resumes in my opinion.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Skatastrophy on April 22, 2022, 12:36:08 PM
Cover letters are more important than resumes in my opinion.

I haven't seen a cover letter in 10 years (that I can recall). Different industries maybe? The good people don't even have an updated resume, they just send a link to their Linkedin.

Edit: Thinking more, I may be out on an island with this one. Most people we've hired in the past bunch of years have come with a warm intro, and if they can't get a warm intro they usually don't get an interview. That's probably going above and beyond in the same spirit as a cover letter, and I'll take the L here.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on April 22, 2022, 12:39:30 PM
I haven't seen a cover letter in 10 years (that I can recall). Different industries maybe? The good people don't even have an updated resume, they just send a link to their Linkedin.

I'm sure it's a different industry where what the resume or LinkedIn says about where they work and what their title is doesn't really tell the entire story about how they see themselves fitting here.  I also don't hire THAT many people so it is more of a process.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: jficke13 on April 22, 2022, 12:46:17 PM
Cover letters are more important than resumes in my opinion.

Saw something recently about how the labor market tipping in favor of labor has "made people rethink traditional parts of the application process" namely the cover letter. The comment made by the guy sharing the link was "cover letter? You want me to write an origin story for my resume? F off."
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on April 22, 2022, 12:53:49 PM
Saw something recently about how the labor market tipping in favor of labor has "made people rethink traditional parts of the application process" namely the cover letter. The comment made by the guy sharing the link was "cover letter? You want me to write an origin story for my resume? F off."


Yeah it was in the Wall Street Journal.  But again this is likely specific to certain industries.

But you aren't working in my department without a cover letter.  I don't need your origin story, but if you can't quickly encapsulate why you want to work here and why you think you fit in a couple of paragraphs, then it's just not going to work.  And in my career, I have occasionally hired people with better resumes but the letters were...poor.  And it wasn't great.  Like Shaka, I have learned how important culture is, and you can't figure that out in a resume.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: muwarrior69 on April 22, 2022, 01:00:43 PM
I made my daughter cry by telling her what we paid for our house in 1993.

I am amused by the number of cold call phone calls and mailers offering to sell our house for us.   
I do not envy those buying their first house today.

In 1977 we paid 55k for our house. We sold it for 395k in 2017. When we were expecting our daughter my dad painted a Mickey Mouse on one wall and a Donald Duck on the other wall in the nursery. After 40 years in the house we could never paint over those "murals". Interestingly enough it was those paintings that sold the house. The young couple's little girl just had to have Mickey and Donald in her room. They made an offer that day.

Buying/building and selling a home can be stressful. I sold 3 homes (my inlaws, my parents and our home) and built a new home in a 7 year span.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on April 22, 2022, 03:50:40 PM
I'm not connected to what's going on everywhere, but the place I do see a lot of real estate transactions is suburban Seattle because my daughter lives there and they're looking at houses ... and it's absolutely bonkers.

I think some of the sold listings would shock some of y'all.

Here's a listing for a 3BR, 2BA, 1800 SF house that isn't even in one of Bellevue's most prestigious neighborhoods. It listed for $1.1M and sold immediately for $1.35M.

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Bellevue/6102-115th-Pl-SE-98006/home/414079

Here's a little 1300 SF rambler that listed for $1.1M and sold for $1.42M.

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Bellevue/5614-117th-Ave-SE-98006/home/414567

And those aren't even extreme examples, just a couple I happened to have saved in my inbox. All the time I'm seeing $1M+ houses that go for $400K or $500K or more over list. Even houses in Renton, which has lousy schools and isn't considered as desirable, are going for $100K-$200K over list. Even condos are.

Maybe it's even worse in San Fran or NY or other places, but I've never personally seen anything like this Seattle stuff.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MuggsyB on April 22, 2022, 04:02:17 PM
I'm not connected to what's going on everywhere, but the place I do see a lot of real estate transactions is suburban Seattle because my daughter lives there and they're looking at houses ... and it's absolutely bonkers.

I think some of the sold listings would shock some of y'all.

Here's a listing for a 3BR, 2BA, 1800 SF house that isn't even in one of Bellevue's most prestigious neighborhoods. It listed for $1.1M and sold immediately for $1.35M.

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Bellevue/6102-115th-Pl-SE-98006/home/414079

Here's a little 1300 SF rambler that listed for $1.1M and sold for $1.42M.

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Bellevue/5614-117th-Ave-SE-98006/home/414567

And those aren't even extreme examples, just a couple I happened to have saved in my inbox. All the time I'm seeing $1M+ houses that go for $400K or $500K or more over list. Even houses in Renton, which has lousy schools and isn't considered as desirable, are going for $100K-$200K over list. Even condos are.

Maybe it's even worse in San Fran or NY or other places, but I've never personally seen anything like this Seattle stuff.

It's worse in suburban San Fran.  Median prices of similar homes are now 1.7 in Sunnyvale and most of the South suburbs until you get to San Jose. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: jficke13 on April 22, 2022, 04:48:54 PM
Several years ago I knew a Husband-Wife trying to buy a 2BR apartment in San Francisco. Both were subspecialty radiologists. The put in an offer on a place and pulled it. Said to me "we just didn't think we could reasonably afford it."

Not sure exactly where within the city. But if two radiologists can't afford a 2BR joint, the housing market is irrevocably broken.

People built barricades for less in the past.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: BM1090 on April 22, 2022, 05:05:08 PM
My girlfriend and her parents are down in Columbia, MO house hunting for her new job that she will start in August. We just offered $40K over asking price on a house plus agreed to let the owners stay in the house 2 months beyond the closing date and they went with a different offer. We have 3 other houses in mind and plan to make an even more aggressive offer on one tomorrow, but our agent thinks the owners are just trying to set up a bidding war on it (Zestimate is $633K, in a desirable neighborhood, they’re asking $460K so doesn’t make much sense).

We’ll both be first time home owners. Any tips for offers in today’s housing market? Besides putting in a cash offer, as that isn’t an option for us right now (we can put 20% down and are pre approved for more than what we thought we’d need). Our agent definitely thought we made a good offer on the one we didn’t get today.

We closed on a house last month. Made an offer nearly identical to yours. 40K over asking and 2 months post occupancy. They countered our offer and two others. We threw in an escalation clause up to 10K higher and ended up getting it for 42.5 over asking.

Turns out the family who sold the house is still looking for an upgrade. They haven't found a house yet so they are going to rent it back from us for a few months for our mortgage cost + more while we stay in our condo.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: warriorchick on April 22, 2022, 05:18:21 PM
We closed on a house last month. Made an offer nearly identical to yours. 40K over asking and 2 months post occupancy. They countered our offer and two others. We threw in an escalation clause up to 10K higher and ended up getting it for 42.5 over asking.

Turns out the family who sold the house is still looking for an upgrade. They haven't found a house yet so they are going to rent it back from us for a few months for our mortgage cost + more while we stay in our condo.

Risky move.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: BM1090 on April 22, 2022, 05:25:03 PM
Risky move.

The escalation? Or the rent back?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on April 22, 2022, 06:22:41 PM
Cash is king and has been in Cali for quite some time. There are cash brokers out there who will pay the cash upfront for you with a quick close and then you secure your mortgage after.
https://themortgagereports.com/77830/cash-offer-with-or-without-cash

Funny thing, all cash isn't always enough. Sellers are demanding Apple RSU's being signed over.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on April 22, 2022, 07:51:47 PM
The escalation? Or the rent back?
The rent back can be. Unless you get a good possession agreement with a bunch of cash held to (a) pay for damages caused during seller’s possession, and (2) be forfeited of sellers don’t vacate timely. There has to be an incentive for them to get out when they say they will. Of course, there also has to be enough rent held or paid in advance to pay for the  occupancy.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: BM1090 on April 22, 2022, 10:03:03 PM
The rent back can be. Unless you get a good possession agreement with a bunch of cash held to (a) pay for damages caused during seller’s possession, and (2) be forfeited of sellers don’t vacate timely. There has to be an incentive for them to get out when they say they will. Of course, there also has to be enough rent held or paid in advance to pay for the  occupancy.

Yep. They are paying for any damages, responsible for lawn care, have a hard deadline, etc
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: warriorchick on April 22, 2022, 10:03:39 PM
The rent back can be. Unless you get a good possession agreement with a bunch of cash held to (a) pay for damages caused during seller’s possession, and (2) be forfeited of sellers don’t vacate timely. There has to be an incentive for them to get out when they say they will. Of course, there also has to be enough rent held or paid in advance to pay for the  occupancy.

Exactly. Let's hope that you don't wind up having to evict them. I have heard real estate people much smarter than me say you should never let a buyer or seller occupy property when they don't currently own it.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on April 22, 2022, 10:19:44 PM
That’s why you require a huge deposit that is forfeited if they aren’t out. You have to make it more affordable for them to move out than to stay.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Scoop Snoop on April 22, 2022, 10:54:11 PM
There are several references in this thread regarding market corrections coming at some time in the future. While I agree the current price escalations are simply not sustainable long term, expecting that overheated housing prices will crash as they did this past recession may be unrealistic.

Here's my reasoning: In addition to much higher prices for materials, construction wages are also much higher and likely to escalate even higher. Contractors have had great difficulty finding skilled labor and many young people today want no part of earning their living via physical labor. After the housing market crash, some construction workers left the housing industry for good. When the market is hot, there is plenty of regular work plus overtime. When the market cools, you are under or unemployed sometimes.

While home prices may decline at some point in the future, the correction will, I believe, be very modest and probably short term. I am not saying that things in general cannot fall to prices below their replacement costs but the floor for homes in the next recession is probably fairly high. Recessions typically affect people with moderate to lower incomes more than those with higher incomes.     
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on April 23, 2022, 09:43:00 PM
My girlfriend and her parents are down in Columbia, MO house hunting for her new job that she will start in August. We just offered $40K over asking price on a house plus agreed to let the owners stay in the house 2 months beyond the closing date and they went with a different offer. We have 3 other houses in mind and plan to make an even more aggressive offer on one tomorrow, but our agent thinks the owners are just trying to set up a bidding war on it (Zestimate is $633K, in a desirable neighborhood, they’re asking $460K so doesn’t make much sense).

We’ll both be first time home owners. Any tips for offers in today’s housing market? Besides putting in a cash offer, as that isn’t an option for us right now (we can put 20% down and are pre approved for more than what we thought we’d need). Our agent definitely thought we made a good offer on the one we didn’t get today.

Ended up landing the house I reference at the end of the first paragraph here. Very excited about it. We knew we’d get something nice, but it’s nice to know we for sure will have a nice house.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: lostpassword on April 23, 2022, 10:10:17 PM

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Bellevue/6102-115th-Pl-SE-98006/home/414079


Calling the exterior of this house ugly would be a compliment.  It's 60% garage door.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on April 23, 2022, 11:17:41 PM
Ended up landing the house I reference at the end of the first paragraph here. Very excited about it. We knew we’d get something nice, but it’s nice to know we for sure will have a nice house.

Congrats Wades!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on April 24, 2022, 12:15:11 AM
Congrats Wades!

Thank you!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: 4everwarriors on April 24, 2022, 04:27:56 AM
Figurin' you won't hafta make that drive down unsafe Capitol much longer, aina?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Scoop Snoop on April 24, 2022, 07:55:53 AM
Ended up landing the house I reference at the end of the first paragraph here. Very excited about it. We knew we’d get something nice, but it’s nice to know we for sure will have a nice house.

Nice! ;D

I think many here can easily relate to the feeling of buying your first house. It's slightly like your first love. If it's too much like your first love, ummm....

Congrats on your new home. I'm happy for the two of you.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: cheebs09 on April 24, 2022, 10:08:39 AM
Ended up landing the house I reference at the end of the first paragraph here. Very excited about it. We knew we’d get something nice, but it’s nice to know we for sure will have a nice house.

Congrats! Definitely not an easy accomplishment in this day and age. Good luck with the closing process.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on April 24, 2022, 02:04:32 PM
Nice! ;D

I think many here can easily relate to the feeling of buying your first house. It's slightly like your first love. If it's too much like your first love, ummm....

Congrats on your new home. I'm happy for the two of you.

Congrats! Definitely not an easy accomplishment in this day and age. Good luck with the closing process.

Thank you! Definitely a relief having the accepted offer part out of the way.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2022, 03:55:10 PM
Ended up landing the house I reference at the end of the first paragraph here. Very excited about it. We knew we’d get something nice, but it’s nice to know we for sure will have a nice house.

That's fantastic, wades. Very happy for you.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on April 24, 2022, 07:53:06 PM
That's fantastic, wades. Very happy for you.

Thank you!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on April 24, 2022, 08:54:26 PM
Ended up landing the house I reference at the end of the first paragraph here. Very excited about it. We knew we’d get something nice, but it’s nice to know we for sure will have a nice house.

Congrats!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on April 24, 2022, 08:54:42 PM
Congrats!

Thank you!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on April 24, 2022, 09:21:18 PM
Calling the exterior of this house ugly would be a compliment.  It's 60% garage door.

Yep … and it coulda been yours for only a little more than a quarter-mil over list!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Lennys Tap on April 24, 2022, 11:07:24 PM
Ended up landing the house I reference at the end of the first paragraph here. Very excited about it. We knew we’d get something nice, but it’s nice to know we for sure will have a nice house.

Congratulations!

You’ll never forget your first house. Hope you both fill it with happiness and fond memories.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on April 25, 2022, 05:49:40 AM
Congratulations!

You’ll never forget your first house. Hope you both fill it with happiness and fond memories.

Thank you! We’re looking forward to it.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Goose on April 25, 2022, 06:33:19 AM
Wades

Congrats!!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: lawdog77 on April 25, 2022, 07:11:24 AM
Thank you! We’re looking forward to it.
Congrats! When's the Scoop Housewarming party? Rocket can supply the novacaine.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: cheebs09 on April 25, 2022, 07:48:43 AM
Congrats! When's the Scoop Housewarming party? Rocket can supply the novacaine.

I believe we coordinate that with Wade’s HR department.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on April 25, 2022, 07:51:52 AM
Wades

Congrats!!

Congrats! When's the Scoop Housewarming party? Rocket can supply the novacaine.

Thank you!  If MU ever plays at Mizzou, SLU, or in KC I'll host and DD to whatever city its' in!

I believe we coordinate that with Wade’s HR department.

Lol awesome.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Herman Cain on April 25, 2022, 10:22:51 AM
Ended up landing the house I reference at the end of the first paragraph here. Very excited about it. We knew we’d get something nice, but it’s nice to know we for sure will have a nice house.
Excellent work. Congrats and hope you enjoy it.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 23, 2022, 01:51:08 PM
A couple that I know is...selling their home right now hoping to make a killing. The person they're working with seems to think a bidding war is possible. For their sake, I hope she's right...

Honestly, it's a very simple, humble house. It's appreciated quite a lot since they purchased it 25 years ago, but even in this market it's probably not even a $500k home. But it's a nice house and I hope they find some people who love it and will pay them for it. They're planning to list within a week or so.


They finally got the house listed last Thursday. By the end of the day Sunday they had 19 offers. They had a cash offer the first day that was $27k over their asking price of $399k. I'm told that there are higher offers, but not cash. I haven't heard all the details yet. They're going to sit down with the realtor tonight to look at all the offers and figure out what to do next. One of the sellers really wanted to list it at $419k but the realtor convinced him that it would be better to list under $400k and that she was confident they'd get his number. Thankfully, it appears that she was right. I don't know if they're going to keep pushing to try to get increased offers or if they're going to pick an offer and sell.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on May 23, 2022, 02:27:00 PM
Apologies for my ignorance, but as a seller what is the benefit of a cash offer outside of not having to worry about funding falling through over the next month or two while the loan is being processed?  Obviously as the seller you would want preapproval, but is the benefit of a cash offer really worth taking a lower dollar amount?  I've clearly never sold a home (since this was our first experience buying), but once the funding goes through does that cash not all hit your bank account?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: warriorchick on May 23, 2022, 02:29:30 PM
Apologies for my ignorance, but as a seller what is the benefit of a cash offer outside of not having to worry about funding falling through over the next month or two while the loan is being processed?  Obviously as the seller you would want preapproval, but is the benefit of a cash offer really worth taking a lower dollar amount?  I've clearly never sold a home (since this was our first experience buying), but once the funding goes through does that cash not all hit your bank account?

Well, for one thing, you don't have to worry about a low appraisal spiking the deal.  That's probably especially important in an environment where prices are rising quickly.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: lawdog77 on May 23, 2022, 02:37:02 PM
Well, for one thing, you don't have to worry about a low appraisal spiking the deal.  That's probably especially important in an environment where prices are rising quickly.
Plus, you get to do this:
(https://c.tenor.com/2rh1Xx4OfSkAAAAM/money-cash.gif)
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 23, 2022, 02:37:26 PM
Apologies for my ignorance, but as a seller what is the benefit of a cash offer outside of not having to worry about funding falling through over the next month or two while the loan is being processed?  Obviously as the seller you would want preapproval, but is the benefit of a cash offer really worth taking a lower dollar amount?  I've clearly never sold a home (since this was our first experience buying), but once the funding goes through does that cash not all hit your bank account?

Also, at least in Arizona a home inspection is required if someone is going to borrow the money. Cash buyers can waive the inspection. That can be a benefit. I can't imagine buying a home and not getting it inspected, but I suppose others differ. I know my friend that is selling is confident that the house is fine (he's a property manager that is very skilled at maintaining a home), but he still is a bit leery about the post-inspection haggling that can ultimately reduce the selling price. Also, if there's no inspection things can go faster and that's one less thing to go wrong. That said, I suspect they'll likely go with the highest offer.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on May 23, 2022, 03:01:22 PM
Well, for one thing, you don't have to worry about a low appraisal spiking the deal.  That's probably especially important in an environment where prices are rising quickly.

Also, at least in Arizona a home inspection is required if someone is going to borrow the money. Cash buyers can waive the inspection. That can be a benefit. I can't imagine buying a home and not getting it inspected, but I suppose others differ. I know my friend that is selling is confident that the house is fine (he's a property manager that is very skilled at maintaining a home), but he still is a bit leery about the post-inspection haggling that can ultimately reduce the selling price. Also, if there's no inspection things can go faster and that's one less thing to go wrong. That said, I suspect they'll likely go with the highest offer.

Got it, makes sense.  I know in Wisconsin and Missouri you can waive the inspection even if you are financing.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on May 23, 2022, 03:21:14 PM
As most are saying really the biggest thing is waviing the inspection. And also playing to their seller schedule. If you can be really flexible on your move in, it truly helps.

Obviously a huge over bid or crazy cash offer will almost always top you.

But if you can be as flexible as possible on anything else, close offers will always go to those. Most people want to get the hell out and done with the sale.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on May 23, 2022, 03:28:48 PM
Also, at least in Arizona a home inspection is required if someone is going to borrow the money. Cash buyers can waive the inspection. That can be a benefit. I can't imagine buying a home and not getting it inspected, but I suppose others differ. I know my friend that is selling is confident that the house is fine (he's a property manager that is very skilled at maintaining a home), but he still is a bit leery about the post-inspection haggling that can ultimately reduce the selling price. Also, if there's no inspection things can go faster and that's one less thing to go wrong. That said, I suspect they'll likely go with the highest offer.

We waived our inspection last year. The reason was because I knew the guy that originally built the house, the house had sold 3 years prior with an inspection, and they were using a relocation company that did an inspection prior to taking the relocation contract. So while we never got the independent inspection, we felt the risk was minimized of there being serious issues. But it was definitely a risk driven by the current market.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on May 23, 2022, 03:38:26 PM

They finally got the house listed last Thursday. By the end of the day Sunday they had 19 offers. They had a cash offer the first day that was $27k over their asking price of $399k. I'm told that there are higher offers, but not cash. I haven't heard all the details yet. They're going to sit down with the realtor tonight to look at all the offers and figure out what to do next. One of the sellers really wanted to list it at $419k but the realtor convinced him that it would be better to list under $400k and that she was confident they'd get his number. Thankfully, it appears that she was right. I don't know if they're going to keep pushing to try to get increased offers or if they're going to pick an offer and sell.


I hope they are planning on working with someone on the retirement planning aspect of this whole sale.  I know another couple who did this (striking while the iron is hot with their house sale), and outside of paying off a couple credit cards, have pissed away most of their $$$.  Renting a high end apartment didn't help.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 23, 2022, 03:53:50 PM

I hope they are planning on working with someone on the retirement planning aspect of this whole sale.

You and me both. The fact that they're in this situation is an indicator that they haven't make good decisions in this area in the past. One thing they have going for them -- at least for their short-term living arrangements -- is that they are moving in to help care for a recently widowed parent. Thus, little or no home expense in the short term and the ability to wait for the market to come back to earth before buying...if they ever buy again (they may just buy the parent's home at some point). I hope to help nudge them in the right direction without overstepping any boundaries.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: warriorchick on May 23, 2022, 09:04:39 PM
I recently returned from a trip down to visit my folks in suburban Nashville.

The market is so hot down there that they have several transferees in their upscale neighborhood that made their offers sight unseen.  They bought houses priced in the high six figures based on internet photos.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: PorkysButthole on May 23, 2022, 10:10:58 PM
I'm not connected to what's going on everywhere, but the place I do see a lot of real estate transactions is suburban Seattle because my daughter lives there and they're looking at houses ... and it's absolutely bonkers.

I think some of the sold listings would shock some of y'all.

Here's a listing for a 3BR, 2BA, 1800 SF house that isn't even in one of Bellevue's most prestigious neighborhoods. It listed for $1.1M and sold immediately for $1.35M.

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Bellevue/6102-115th-Pl-SE-98006/home/414079

Here's a little 1300 SF rambler that listed for $1.1M and sold for $1.42M.

https://www.redfin.com/WA/Bellevue/5614-117th-Ave-SE-98006/home/414567

And those aren't even extreme examples, just a couple I happened to have saved in my inbox. All the time I'm seeing $1M+ houses that go for $400K or $500K or more over list. Even houses in Renton, which has lousy schools and isn't considered as desirable, are going for $100K-$200K over list. Even condos are.

Maybe it's even worse in San Fran or NY or other places, but I've never personally seen anything like this Seattle stuff.

The NYC Suburban market has been bonkers just like everywhere else but while still extremely expensive compared to the Midwest, it's not as high as Seattle or SF, which are on another other level entirely.  In northern NJ, Westchester Co., Nassau & Suffolk county on Long Island and Fairfield County in CT, there has always been and still is a significant price disparity in towns with great public schools vs mediocre or poor schools.  Pricing and Demand are still way up across the board even in towns with mediocre schools, but my understanding from speaking with several folks who have lived out west is that inventory is at such a premium there that the disparity in prices between towns with good schools and so so schools is negligible, if there is one at all.  Anecdotally, a colleague of mine who recently moved back to her native Southern CA during the height of the pandemic right around this time last year told me straight up the public schools in her neighborhood.... where the average home lists for $1.5M.....are downright awful.   Thankfully, her kids are very young and right now they're living in an apt complex but will need to move in a few years when they start 1st grade or go to a private.   There is no suburb that I'm aware of anywhere within a 60M radius of NYC (Yes 60 miles from Manhattan is still considered suburban here) with avg. home values of $1.5M that have mediocre public schools. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on May 23, 2022, 10:16:48 PM
How much of the problem is real estate investors buying up the inventory?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Herman Cain on May 24, 2022, 06:38:52 AM
A neighbor just listed their house for $4.7 million. It has a contract on it already . They bought it in 2018 for $1.5. Not a large house a little under 3000 square feet but well done and spectacular views. I hope the new buyers are nice people.

Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on May 24, 2022, 08:05:49 AM
How much of the problem is real estate investors buying up the inventory?

I think that's part of it.  But I also think its because we have a shortage of rental units in many parts of the country.  Oh and inflation.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on May 24, 2022, 08:06:56 AM
I think that's part of it.  But I also think its because we have a shortage of rental units in many parts of the country.  Oh and inflation.

Also, a shortage of new house builds.

It's everything, really.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: StillAWarrior on May 24, 2022, 08:40:08 AM
How much of the problem is real estate investors buying up the inventory?

I know that the cash offer my friends received was from someone that didn't even tour the home -- purely based on looking at the pictures online. I assume that is an investor.

They finally got all the information about their offers last night. Highest offer was $440k ($41k above the list price). They had others in the $420s and $430s. They're in the process of considering the offers and picking one.

At present, they're really not interested in the cash offer. The offer contains a provision that the buyer can back out up to three days before closing. The seller really doesn't like that. They want to get the house under contract and get some peace of mind. They're looking at the better offers and assessing who is financing the smaller amounts so they will have fewer concerns about the appraisal coming in below the amount to be financed (which can screw up the deal). And, yes, they are interested in knowing who is planning to raise kids in the home because this is the home where they raised their family. Not sure if they got any letters, however.

Ultimately, though, I think they'll go with the highest bidder.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: JWags85 on May 24, 2022, 01:43:44 PM
The NYC Suburban market has been bonkers just like everywhere else but while still extremely expensive compared to the Midwest, it's not as high as Seattle or SF, which are on another other level entirely. 

I liked this article...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/keep-the-beachthese-homeowners-are-trying-lagoons-on-for-size-11651089674

A house the size of many 2 BR apartments in SF.  Not on the ocean or even the bay proper, but a lagoon sells for $3.7MM and the article is glowing about appeal and value and it being a fine deal.  Just the absolute absurdity that is SF.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: warriorchick on May 24, 2022, 04:32:46 PM
Another thing that is contributing to the housing spike in certain areas is the change in the WFH paradigm.  If you can live anywhere you want and still keep the same job, why not move to the beach, or the lake, or out in the middle of the woods?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: LAZER on May 24, 2022, 04:34:57 PM
I liked this article...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/keep-the-beachthese-homeowners-are-trying-lagoons-on-for-size-11651089674

A house the size of many 2 BR apartments in SF.  Not on the ocean or even the bay proper, but a lagoon sells for $3.7MM and the article is glowing about appeal and value and it being a fine deal.  Just the absolute absurdity that is SF.
Belvedere is really nice and a great place to live, not surprised it's commanding those type of prices. Absurd, but understandable when looking at Bay Area alternatives.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on May 24, 2022, 11:38:50 PM
How much of the problem is real estate investors buying up the inventory?

The Charlotte and Raleigh newspapers teamed up to do a multiple-part series on this subject. It was both interesting and infuriating.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: JWags85 on May 25, 2022, 10:18:54 AM
Belvedere is really nice and a great place to live, not surprised it's commanding those type of prices. Absurd, but understandable when looking at Bay Area alternatives.

Oh I wasn't meaning to slag on Belvedere at all, but rather highlight the insanity of Bay Area real estate.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: dgies9156 on May 25, 2022, 10:41:31 AM
Gang, need some advice.

How many real estate agents do you interview before selecting an agent? How did you go about the process?

We still have our home in the Chicago suburbs and are planning to sell this summer. Given taxes and the overall ownership costs in the Chicago market, we have elected to become part-time renters. We've owned our home since 1994 and the last two sales experiences in Illinois were AWFUL!!!!!

By contrast, in Florida, we used a friend who worked our neighborhood hard. She was incredible both from a sales and market understanding basis. Heck, she didn't like how we cleaned our house so instead of asking us to do something, she jumped in and did it. She earned every cent of her commission.

Let me know your thoughts. We hope to list in the next few weeks.

Thanks....
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 25, 2022, 10:59:53 AM
If you don't have a trusted agent in your network already, I'd suggest going with your local Compass agent. Compass acquired all of the competent brokerages nationwide and has the most modern tech to facilitate buying/selling.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Herman Cain on May 25, 2022, 11:37:36 AM
Gang, need some advice.

How many real estate agents do you interview before selecting an agent? How did you go about the process?

We still have our home in the Chicago suburbs and are planning to sell this summer. Given taxes and the overall ownership costs in the Chicago market, we have elected to become part-time renters. We've owned our home since 1994 and the last two sales experiences in Illinois were AWFUL!!!!!

By contrast, in Florida, we used a friend who worked our neighborhood hard. She was incredible both from a sales and market understanding basis. Heck, she didn't like how we cleaned our house so instead of asking us to do something, she jumped in and did it. She earned every cent of her commission.

Let me know your thoughts. We hope to list in the next few weeks.

Thanks....
Interview Several and pick the one that is most committed to a complete marketing program and has the experience closing deals and working through issues .

Good luck with Your sale .
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on May 25, 2022, 12:37:15 PM
Also, a shortage of new house builds.

It's everything, really.

And the stimulus checks gave younger people enough cash to make a down payment. Now their mortgage payments are less than their rents.

And they are buying from boomers who now need a place to move.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: JWags85 on May 25, 2022, 01:05:29 PM
And the stimulus checks gave younger people enough cash to make a down payment. Now their mortgage payments are less than their rents.

Teal?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Skatastrophy on May 25, 2022, 03:29:06 PM
Teal?

I mean it's one banana. What could it cost? $10?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: PorkysButthole on May 25, 2022, 07:43:55 PM
Gang, need some advice.

How many real estate agents do you interview before selecting an agent? How did you go about the process?

We still have our home in the Chicago suburbs and are planning to sell this summer. Given taxes and the overall ownership costs in the Chicago market, we have elected to become part-time renters. We've owned our home since 1994 and the last two sales experiences in Illinois were AWFUL!!!!!

By contrast, in Florida, we used a friend who worked our neighborhood hard. She was incredible both from a sales and market understanding basis. Heck, she didn't like how we cleaned our house so instead of asking us to do something, she jumped in and did it. She earned every cent of her commission.

Let me know your thoughts. We hope to list in the next few weeks.

Thanks....

Hopefully rents in the Chicago Market aren't as insane as they are elsewhere.   There are plenty of folks in Porky's NYC suburban town that would love to take advantage of this market and sell but most of those people can't afford what's available and are stuck.  There are very little condo or rental units in the burbs for empty nesters, so demand for those types of units exceeds supply by a substantial margin.  There's virtually no difference in rents in Stamford CT, a desirable place for empty nesters about 35 miles northeast of the city than in Manhattan itself.   Sure you'll get a little more space than you would in the city, but the monthly outlay is more or less the same as Manhattan these days, and in most cases that rent will be at least 75% more if not double what their previous mortgage / property tax taxes were.  It's a bad situation.   Personally both Porky and Mrs. Porky think home ownership is a pain in the ass, and much prefer city living, but we couldn't afford $60K a year for pvt special needs school tuition so we had to move to the burbs.  We'd happy sell our home if there was a viable condo or even rental property to move into until our son graduates from high school but what little is available costs more than double our mortgage payment. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on May 26, 2022, 09:45:39 AM
Mortgage rates actually have ticked down two weeks in a row.

30-year fixed-rate mortgage averaged 5.10% with an average 0.9 point for the week ending May 26, down from last week when it averaged 5.25%, according to the Freddie Mac Primary Mortgage Survey.

That's still high compared to the historic lows of 2021, but quite low compared to anything before the Great Recession.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on May 26, 2022, 03:00:10 PM
Teal?

???

$5600 per family wasn't a significant boost to an average family on their credit rating (paying off debt) or towards a down payment? That and shelter in place, migration to cheaper areas played a significant part in jump starting home sales.

Scoopers must be in the 1% if that only covered their banana bills. That's over 8% of the median family income.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: JWags85 on May 26, 2022, 03:13:21 PM
???

$5600 per family wasn't a significant boost to an average family on their credit rating (paying off debt) or towards a down payment? That and shelter in place, migration to cheaper areas played a significant part in jump starting home sales.

Scoopers must be in the 1% if that only covered their banana bills. That's over 8% of the median family income.

You said it "gave them enough cash to make a down payment".  10% down on a $250K house is $25K.  That stimulus is barely 20% of that down payment if they used it for nothing else.  That seems to be a pretty big leap in saying that started a rush of home buying.

Many things caused the housing market to do what it has, millenials with fat stacks of stimulus payments now being able to buy a house as a result is not one of them
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on May 26, 2022, 03:37:41 PM
You said it "gave them enough cash to make a down payment".  10% down on a $250K house is $25K.  That stimulus is barely 20% of that down payment if they used it for nothing else.  That seems to be a pretty big leap in saying that started a rush of home buying.


My guess is a lot of first time homebuyers aren't putting 10% down and probably buying a house less than $250k.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on May 26, 2022, 04:00:22 PM

My guess is a lot of first time homebuyers aren't putting 10% down and probably buying a house less than $250k.

There are houses below $250k?

Only half joking here.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: JWags85 on May 26, 2022, 04:28:25 PM

My guess is a lot of first time homebuyers aren't putting 10% down and probably buying a house less than $250k.

Last time I saw, pre-COVID, the median first time home buyer price nationally was like $230-240K.

And fine, call it 7% on a $200K home, my point still stands.  Inventory issues and the current insanity of the housing market isn't driven in any meaningful way cause people had an extra $5K and were suddenly spurred to buy a house.

I'm a millennial.  I know about a dozen fellow millenials that moved in some way as a result of the pandemic.  None of them doing so became first time home buyers in the process.  And 3 of them were home owners and then became renters in their new location, at least for the short/mid term.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: reinko on August 11, 2022, 01:08:23 PM
Giving this an old bump bump.

Finally taking the leap at buying our first home, hopefully in the next six months...the fam currently is on a month to month to rental, access to a pretty solid down payment (at least 15-20%), and was prequalified for a jumbo loan to save some on the interest side of things.

I am consuming as much information as possible, want to find the right agent, in the hopes of the right place at the right price.  I know it's basic, but holding true to the one thing you can never change about a home is the location, and we have narrowed it down to a few in the area (Montgomery County Maryland), with schools, safety, quality of life, and the of course the house/property.

Happy to listen to any and all tips or strategies that folks have learned over the years.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 11, 2022, 01:29:01 PM
Giving this an old bump bump.

Finally taking the leap at buying our first home, hopefully in the next six months...the fam currently is on a month to month to rental, access to a pretty solid down payment (at least 15-20%), and was prequalified for a jumbo loan to save some on the interest side of things.

I am consuming as much information as possible, want to find the right agent, in the hopes of the right place at the right price.  I know it's basic, but holding true to the one thing you can never change about a home is the location, and we have narrowed it down to a few in the area (Montgomery County Maryland), with schools, safety, quality of life, and the of course the house/property.

Happy to listen to any and all tips or strategies that folks have learned over the years.

Hope that mortgage rates drop soon so you can refinance at a lower rate than 5% (give or take).   :P

Get a really good home inspector.  Don't be afraid to overbid for a property you really like... because once your home inspector goes through it he should be able to pay for his services, and ideally lower the agreed upon offer.  I haven't bought a house in over a decade, but waiving the inspection is becoming much more common, and I don't like it.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 11, 2022, 01:53:35 PM
Reeks, listen ta Hards, Fluffy BM, Jockster, and Smithy cuz dem youngsters no everythin', hey?


 
#freerocket2022v2

#freeziggy2022

Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: JWags85 on August 11, 2022, 02:28:07 PM
Hope that mortgage rates drop soon so you can refinance at a lower rate than 5% (give or take).   :P

Get a really good home inspector.  Don't be afraid to overbid for a property you really like... because once your home inspector goes through it he should be able to pay for his services, and ideally lower the agreed upon offer.  I haven't bought a house in over a decade, but waiving the inspection is becoming much more common, and I don't like it.

My good friend bought a beautiful old house in Evanston a couple months ago from an elderly widower.  It clearly needed a lot of work.  Great bones, but a 100 year old house with an 80+ year old resident just screams "there is some stuff that needs to be inspected".  The seller's agent and team was AGGRESSIVELY pushing for no inspection.  Even bluffing with a pocket offer that they were ready to accept with no inspection.  Luckily my friend and his wife stuck to their guns and still made out ok.

My sister just bought in Richmond end of July.  They were ready to put in 3 different offers on places before no inspection clauses were presented.  2 of them were higher bids, well over asking, and agreeing to no inspection.  Just wild and unsustainable.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 11, 2022, 04:21:15 PM
Reeks, listen ta Hards, Fluffy BM, Jockster, and Smithy cuz dem youngsters no everythin', hey?


 
#freerocket2022v2

#freeziggy2022

Whenz da last tyme u an da missus bowt a houz, da same year da Bearz one the hole shebang?

Wags seams ta no hiz chit two, aina?

#slacktivism

#lockdemup
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on August 11, 2022, 04:35:45 PM
We just agreed terms on a duplex yesterday. Two 3BR units and in good shape. Strictly investment, got a 4.5% rate and will be inheriting two tenants both on month-to-month. Really hope to keep them (both have been there for 4+ years) but need to raise rents to cover the mortgage.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on August 11, 2022, 04:54:04 PM
Currently in a holding pattern hoping this is a bubble about to burst
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 11, 2022, 05:23:13 PM
Currently in a holding pattern hoping this is a bubble about to burst

I thought this a couple of years ago that we were in a bubble.  I have been seriously convinced otherwise.

Your area may be different, but materials are very expensive still, and there isn't a ton of inventory.

We bought a second property a few years ago and are very glad we did.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 11, 2022, 05:28:26 PM
Whenz da last tyme u an da missus bowt a houz, da same year da Bearz one the hole shebang?

Wags seams ta no hiz chit two, aina?

#slacktivism

#lockdemup




Pretty sure Roosevelt was da POTUS, hey?


#freerocket2022v2

#freeziggy2022
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 11, 2022, 05:43:54 PM



Pretty sure Roosevelt was da POTUS, hey?


#freerocket2022v2

#freeziggy2022

Witch Roosevelt, ya owld goat?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: tower912 on August 11, 2022, 05:45:50 PM
He likes to 'Bully'.   And he rejects 'the only thing we have to fear is fear itself'.   So I am going with Teddy.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: reinko on August 11, 2022, 06:04:41 PM
Currently in a holding pattern hoping this is a bubble about to burst

The market by us has cooled, but inventory is still quite low. At least buyers generally aren’t going over 20-50K over ask, with waiving inspection…I think buyers have more  leverage than they did a few months back, and if houses sit more than 2-3 weeks you’ll see price reductions.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Lennys Tap on August 11, 2022, 06:28:44 PM
I thought this a couple of years ago that we were in a bubble.  I have been seriously convinced otherwise.


A bubble a couple of years ago? LOL. That’s about the time real estate just began to explode.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on August 11, 2022, 07:44:34 PM
From the WSJ today:

In 184 out of 185 metro areas, the median sale price for an existing single-family home in the second quarter rose from a year earlier. According to the National Association of Realtors, the national median is a record $413,500.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 11, 2022, 07:53:38 PM
Reeks, listen ta Hards, Fluffy BM, Jockster, and Smithy cuz dem youngsters no everythin', hey?


 
#freerocket2022v2

#freeziggy2022


Still salty because you don't understand monthly inflation statistics?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on August 11, 2022, 10:49:33 PM
I thought this a couple of years ago that we were in a bubble.  I have been seriously convinced otherwise.

Your area may be different, but materials are very expensive still, and there isn't a ton of inventory.

We bought a second property a few years ago and are very glad we did.

I'm the opposite. I've been thinking that this wasn't a bubble and the best move was to grit my teeth and pull the trigger on a ridiculous offer. Lately, I've been reading some things that lead me to believe that we will see a significant correction in the next year or two. Hope I'm right, renting is a bitch.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: mu_hilltopper on August 11, 2022, 11:40:13 PM
Agree on the concept of not being afraid of bidding high if you want the house.

Imagine the $400k house .. bidding $440k seems outrageous, but .. it's 10%.   Had you gotten the house at $400k, its value will be $440k in 1-2 years anyhow. .. Not withstanding a housing crash, of course.    It's hard to see a housing surplus any time soon.

As for getting a "good inspector" .. that's fine.  But no doubt, if you're buying in a location that has low inventory, unless the house has nuclear waste in the back yard, the seller will just wait for the next bidder.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 12, 2022, 04:26:15 AM
Agree on the concept of not being afraid of bidding high if you want the house.

Imagine the $400k house .. bidding $440k seems outrageous, but .. it's 10%.   Had you gotten the house at $400k, its value will be $440k in 1-2 years anyhow. .. Not withstanding a housing crash, of course.    It's hard to see a housing surplus any time soon.

As for getting a "good inspector" .. that's fine.  But no doubt, if you're buying in a location that has low inventory, unless the house has nuclear waste in the back yard, the seller will just wait for the next bidder.

I bought a house in 2007 - just before the real estate crash. When I sold it 11 years later, I made a very modest gain. About 1.5% annual return if you include the commission. I likely would have had to sell at a loss if I had sold it any time within the first five or six years of ownership.

But we loved the house. If I had it all over, I wouldn’t have changed a thing. (I did make a killing on the house I sold to buy the one back in 2007. So that eases the pain a little.)
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 12, 2022, 05:35:10 AM

Still salty because you don't understand monthly inflation statistics?





I understand my monthly grocery bill, hey?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 12, 2022, 06:12:32 AM
A bubble a couple of years ago? LOL. That’s about the time real estate just began to explode.

8,000 members of your generation are dying every day and so I assumed that many of the homes that you've been sitting on would find their way to market.  Instead, investment firms have snatched up properties left and right and rent them instead of selling. 

Lenny, if you knew that the real estate market was only going to explode then why, pray tell, are you not wholly invested in real estate instead of the stock market?

I'll tell you.  Because hindsight is 20/20 and you knew as much as I did at the time.  So while you're attempt to make fun of my prognostications regarding real estate a decade ago seems hilarious, know that you are simply calling yourself and anyone who didn't chase real estate from that time period equally foolish.  Dumb take, as usual.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: muwarrior69 on August 12, 2022, 06:58:06 AM
We just agreed terms on a duplex yesterday. Two 3BR units and in good shape. Strictly investment, got a 4.5% rate and will be inheriting two tenants both on month-to-month. Really hope to keep them (both have been there for 4+ years) but need to raise rents to cover the mortgage.

I am sure the mortgage also includes paying the property tax as well. Will your rental income also cover any maintenance or repairs when they come up (ie. central air/heating, kitchen appliances, plumbing, leaky roof etc.).
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 12, 2022, 07:25:05 AM
I understand my monthly grocery bill, hey?

So you don't understand monthly inflation stats. Thanks for the confirmation.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 12, 2022, 08:49:55 AM
O, bye da wey. Make sure ewe back da dude hoo didant dismantle da once grate skool system, hey?



#freerocket2022v2

#freeziggy2022
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 12, 2022, 08:52:41 AM
O, bye da wey. Make sure ewe back da dude hoo didant dismantle da once grate skool system, hey?



#freerocket2022v2

#freeziggy2022

I wasn’t at the Toss Vos event.  Was it fun?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Lennys Tap on August 12, 2022, 08:58:33 AM
8,000 members of your generation are dying every day and so I assumed that many of the homes that you've been sitting on would find their way to market.  Instead, investment firms have snatched up properties left and right and rent them instead of selling. 

Lenny, if you knew that the real estate market was only going to explode then why, pray tell, are you not wholly invested in real estate instead of the stock market?

I'll tell you.  Because hindsight is 20/20 and you knew as much as I did at the time.  So while you're attempt to make fun of my prognostications regarding real estate a decade ago seems hilarious, know that you are simply calling yourself and anyone who didn't chase real estate from that time period equally foolish.  Dumb take, as usual.

You thought we were in a real estate “bubble” a couple of years ago. A couple of years ago the general economy/stock market had roared back from the crash. The real estate market had only limped backed, barely surpassing pre crash values. You saw this as a “bubble” because 8000 evil baby boomers were dying daily? Totally ignoring the supply side and value side of the equation? Lazy, simplistic analysis - while, as you point out, the smart money was buying.

As to my investments, I’m 73. It’s no longer prudent for me to chase trends. I’m fortunate that I don’t need to. I’m still somewhat over invested in real estate - I have some money with a private equity fund in that space - but I sold the rental home that I bought in 2012 this year.

Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 12, 2022, 09:08:24 AM
You thought we were in a real estate “bubble” a couple of years ago. A couple of years ago the general economy/stock market had roared back from the crash. The real estate market had only limped backed, barely surpassing pre crash values. You saw this as a “bubble” because 8000 evil baby boomers were dying daily? Totally ignoring the supply side and value side of the equation? Lazy, simplistic analysis - while, as you point out, the smart money was buying.

As to my investments, I’m 73. It’s no longer prudent for me to chase trends. I’m fortunate that I don’t need to. I’m still somewhat over invested in real estate - I have some money with a private equity fund in that space - but I sold the rental home that I bought in 2012 this year.

Glad to see you're predictions played out to your benefit.  Can I borrow a buck?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Skatastrophy on August 12, 2022, 09:10:11 AM
Agree on the concept of not being afraid of bidding high if you want the house.

Imagine the $400k house .. bidding $440k seems outrageous, but .. it's 10%.   Had you gotten the house at $400k, its value will be $440k in 1-2 years anyhow. .. Not withstanding a housing crash, of course.    It's hard to see a housing surplus any time soon.

As for getting a "good inspector" .. that's fine.  But no doubt, if you're buying in a location that has low inventory, unless the house has nuclear waste in the back yard, the seller will just wait for the next bidder.

Unless I had $50k in cash (after accounting for downpayment/closing-costs), I would not waive an inspection.

Regarding low inventory: If you have a decent-sized network in the area you're looking, ask those people if they know anyone that's considering selling their homes. A lot of people are sitting on the sidelines instead of listing because of current economic uncertainty, and picking up an off-market home can save you a ton of money if you're comfortable closing the transaction with just attorneys and not agents.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on August 12, 2022, 09:26:33 AM
What are the thoughts on waiving the inspection for newer builds?  When we were looking it was pretty much at the height of the craziness and we missed out on the first house we put an offer on even though we put a pretty aggressive offer in, so we were considering waiving the inspection in future offers because we were looking at mostly newer houses.  We ended up not having to do that and had our offer accepted a couple hours after we submitted it on the second house we offered, but would people be somewhat comfortable waiving the inspection on a house that was built in 2019?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 12, 2022, 09:34:34 AM
What are the thoughts on waiving the inspection for newer builds?  When we were looking it was pretty much at the height of the craziness and we missed out on the first house we put an offer on even though we put a pretty aggressive offer in, so we were considering waiving the inspection in future offers because we were looking at mostly newer houses.  We ended up not having to do that and had our offer accepted a couple hours after we submitted it on the second house we offered, but would people be somewhat comfortable waiving the inspection on a house that was built in 2019?

Define newer.  Under two years?  Sure why not.  The house had been fully inspected upon completion.  After five years?  Was the builder reputable?  I'd get it inspected.  The house has been fully lived in and any major problems will start to develop.  A 2019 build?  You'd probably be safe waiving, but the builder's reputation would be something to look into instead.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on August 12, 2022, 09:44:01 AM
I am sure the mortgage also includes paying the property tax as well. Will your rental income also cover any maintenance or repairs when they come up (ie. central air/heating, kitchen appliances, plumbing, leaky roof etc.).

By a little bit. It will take a little time for the property to build itself a maintenance fund, until then it'll be out of pocket and write-offs. We're factoring all the and hoping to make some improvements to hopefully keep the tenants even as we raise rents over the next 2-3 years.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 12, 2022, 09:52:26 AM
What are the thoughts on waiving the inspection for newer builds?  When we were looking it was pretty much at the height of the craziness and we missed out on the first house we put an offer on even though we put a pretty aggressive offer in, so we were considering waiving the inspection in future offers because we were looking at mostly newer houses.  We ended up not having to do that and had our offer accepted a couple hours after we submitted it on the second house we offered, but would people be somewhat comfortable waiving the inspection on a house that was built in 2019?

Newer houses, yes, though as said, check the history of the builders.

In my neighborhood, the houses were built in the 50’s and people are waiving the inspection to buy and it’s insanity.  At least with newer houses you can hope the previous owners couldn’t do too much damage but houses with multiple owners or single, long-term owners, no way.  I’m selling a family members house who didn’t do any upkeep.  The house needs so much work and updating, anyone offering without an inspection?  Well, buyer beware
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: muwarrior69 on August 12, 2022, 10:15:04 AM
Newer houses, yes, though as said, check the history of the builders.

In my neighborhood, the houses were built in the 50’s and people are waiving the inspection to buy and it’s insanity.  At least with newer houses you can hope the previous owners couldn’t do too much damage but houses with multiple owners or single, long-term owners, no way.  I’m selling a family members house who didn’t do any upkeep.  The house needs so much work and updating, anyone offering without an inspection?  Well, buyer beware

My In-law's home needed a lot of work as well. It is not only the buyer's inspectors but some townships won't let you sell until they issue a certificate of occupancy. We had more issues with the township getting everything up to code.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 12, 2022, 10:19:37 AM
My In-law's home needed a lot of work as well. It is not only the buyer's inspectors but some townships won't let you sell until they issue a certificate of occupancy. We had more issues with the township getting everything up to code.

I think we’re ok in that regard where the house is but other than the roof and furnace, it’s a whole project
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 12, 2022, 10:21:01 AM
By a little bit. It will take a little time for the property to build itself a maintenance fund, until then it'll be out of pocket and write-offs. We're factoring all the and hoping to make some improvements to hopefully keep the tenants even as we raise rents over the next 2-3 years.

I assume you've looked into this, but remember to depreciate your rental property.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/060815/how-rental-property-depreciation-works.asp
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 12, 2022, 10:23:04 AM
I think we’re ok in that regard where the house is but other than the roof and furnace, it’s a whole project

If the structure, electrical, and plumbing are fine... I would leave it up to the buyer to redo what they want. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on August 12, 2022, 03:16:15 PM
I assume you've looked into this, but remember to depreciate your rental property.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/060815/how-rental-property-depreciation-works.asp

Yep. My daughter and her husband have a couple of rental properties, and they say some of the best value they get is in the tax treatment of the properties.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Lennys Tap on August 12, 2022, 04:18:25 PM
Glad to see you're predictions played out to your benefit.  Can I borrow a buck?

Sure.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: rocky_warrior on August 12, 2022, 07:02:54 PM
Sure.

Ah hell.  Keep this up and people will start expecting to be able to access Scoop for free!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: wadesworld on August 12, 2022, 07:03:55 PM
Ah hell.  Keep this up and people will start expecting to be able to access Scoop for free!

You guys are making too many young posters like me entitled. We have it way too easy around here.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: jesmu84 on August 12, 2022, 07:20:15 PM
Yep. My daughter and her husband have a couple of rental properties, and they say some of the best value they get is in the tax treatment of the properties.

Maybe we could use housing not as an investment vehicle?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Spaniel with a Short Tail on August 12, 2022, 09:08:04 PM
I bought a house in 2007 - just before the real estate crash. When I sold it 11 years later, I made a very modest gain. About 1.5% annual return if you include the commission. I likely would have had to sell at a loss if I had sold it any time within the first five or six years of ownership.

But we loved the house. If I had it all over, I wouldn’t have changed a thing. (I did make a killing on the house I sold to buy the one back in 2007. So that eases the pain a little.)

You gotta live somewhere. I never thought of my house as primarily an investment. It was primarily a place to live. If it grew in value, great. If it didn't, NBD.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Lennys Tap on August 12, 2022, 09:30:07 PM
You gotta live somewhere. I never thought of my house as primarily an investment. It was primarily a place to live. If it grew in value, great. If it didn't, NBD.

This is (imo) the way to view a home. First and foremost, does it help make your life happier? There’s great value in that. The $ value is really only important on the day you buy and the day you sell. Otherwise it’s noise.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: jesmu84 on August 12, 2022, 10:27:48 PM
You gotta live somewhere. I never thought of my house as primarily an investment. It was primarily a place to live. If it grew in value, great. If it didn't, NBD.

Sure.

But that doesn't mean housing isn't used as an investment vehicle by many others. Landlords, investment groups, etc
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on August 12, 2022, 10:35:03 PM
Maybe we could use housing not as an investment vehicle?

Sounds like a good platform for you to run on.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: mu_hilltopper on August 12, 2022, 10:42:47 PM
Funny/odd closing story.

Last year, we bought a place that's a unit in a resort.  We'd stayed there before, but bought the unit sight unseen, no inspection, cash purchase.  (Everything was fine.)

The funny part was the closing.  Every closing I've ever been a part of .. your hand hurts from signing a thousand documents a million pages long.

I'd previously asked the escrow people we wanted to do a virtual/zoom signing, and that was acknowledged.   June 1st comes and we're waiting for a zoom link that never comes.  Eventually, I called my agent and asked what was going on.   He calls me back and says "oh, you already own it, it closed."    Uh, what now?

"Yeah, there was that 1-page Excel document that had the numbers and you signed it and wired a check.  That's it."    Uh, really?

Later the (now previous) owner calls me and asks "um, did we close today?"  "I'm like 80% sure we did.  Maybe?"

Everything turned out OK, about a week later we got a stack of official looking deed type papers.  Wasn't 100% sure until we got the property tax bill months later.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 13, 2022, 05:10:04 AM
You gotta live somewhere. I never thought of my house as primarily an investment. It was primarily a place to live. If it grew in value, great. If it didn't, NBD.

Exactly. And in the end it was all cheaper than renting.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Scoop Snoop on August 13, 2022, 10:20:58 AM
The market by us has cooled, but inventory is still quite low. At least buyers generally aren’t going over 20-50K over ask, with waiving inspection…I think buyers have more leverage than they did a few months back, and if houses sit more than 2-3 weeks you’ll see price reductions.

If you are open to the idea of buying an older home that has not been updated in a very long time, you may find a really good deal, even in this market. Many buyers lack the imagination to see beyond dated and often ugly paint colors, wallpaper, flooring, cabinets etc. in older homes. Other buyers simply do not want to deal with major remodeling. It is not for the faint of heart. If you are up to the challenge, the end result after a remodel would be having a home just the way you want it. You mentioned being in a month-to-month rental. You and your family could stick it out 2-3 more months while you remodel or have it done by a contractor. Your kids could decide what they want their rooms to look like. Of course, you would need to act fast to beat out the flippers.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: warriorchick on August 13, 2022, 10:34:20 AM
If you are open to the idea of buying an older home that has not been updated in a very long time, you may find a really good deal, even in this market. Many buyers lack the imagination to see beyond dated and often ugly paint colors, wallpaper, flooring, cabinets etc. in older homes. Other buyers simply do not want to deal with major remodeling. It is not for the faint of heart. If you are up to the challenge, the end result after a remodel would be having a home just the way you want it. You mentioned being in a month-to-month rental. You and your family could stick it out 2-3 more months while you remodel or have it done by a contractor. Your kids could decide what they want their rooms to look like. Of course, you would need to act fast to beat out the flippers.

If you are going to go this route, you had better be capable of doing a lot of the upgrades yourself, or in a lot of places, be willing to either wait or pay a premium.  Hiring contractors is a bitch right now.  In my area, you can't even get contractors to come out and give a quote.  A neighbor of mine has given up on local companies and is paying a premium to bring in contractors from 100 miles away.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Scoop Snoop on August 13, 2022, 11:16:05 AM
If you are going to go this route, you had better be capable of doing a lot of the upgrades yourself, or in a lot of places, be willing to either wait or pay a premium.  Hiring contractors is a bitch right now.  In my area, you can't even get contractors to come out and give a quote.  A neighbor of mine has given up on local companies and is paying a premium to bring in contractors from 100 miles away.

Fair enough.

Painting is something anyone can do, but some people hate doing it or are sloppy. Flooring is typically installed by the retailer's crew. If you get into electrical, plumbing, HVAC and roofing, major plumbing etc. yeah...a contractor is typically needed. Installing cabinets and light plumbing is not rocket science but some people may not be willing or able to do their own work. The point about finding a contractor is valid though. Finding a really good one is even tougher.

If you can get by with a total repaint and reflooring before moving in and the HVAC, roof, plumbing etc. are OK, and if the kitchen and bath remodels can wait (a big if for many people I would guess) it's still a possibility. One way to repaint so that you can get into the home quickly is to do the walls, ceiling, and the baseboards and crown molding and leave the time-consuming window sashes and trim for later.

Edit: For those old enough to remember the movie "The Money Pit" (with Tom Hanks and Shelly Long) ,,,I loved the scene of the contractor who acted like he was God's gift from heaven and insisted that the prospective client offer him a drink before he would even consider quoting the job. Moments later the contractor storms out of the house and angrily shouts "You gave me the cheap stuff!" Tom Hanks apologizes profusely, convinces the contractor to come back into the house and offers his best whiskey. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on August 14, 2022, 06:15:29 AM
I assume you've looked into this, but remember to depreciate your rental property.

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/060815/how-rental-property-depreciation-works.asp

Good stuff. We have a company that does our taxes but I'll make sure to mention it when we send our documents in January.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on August 14, 2022, 06:24:11 AM
What are the thoughts on waiving the inspection for newer builds?

I wouldn't, just because you don't know the quality of the workmanship put into it. We waived inspection on our 2008 home that was sold (and thus reinspected) in 2018 and we've had a few issues crop up in the first year that an inspection would've caught. Nothing huge, but sump pump issues that led to a replacement, wiring issues that needed an electrician, would've much rather caught those on the front end.

The market is competitive, but I don't think it's so competitive now that I'd waive, even on new construction.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on August 20, 2022, 08:59:51 AM
Systemic racism runs through the mortgage and appraisal industries. A very recent example:

In a predominantly white neighborhood in Baltimore, an upper-middle-class Black couple wanted to refinance their home. Their loan application was rejected when their house was valued at $472K by the appraiser chosen by the mortgage company. That was significantly lower than comparable homes -- owned by white people -- in the neighborhood were going for. It stunned the couple, who then decided to conduct an experiment.

Three months later, they removed all traces that a Black family lived there. They took down their family photos and replaced them with photos of a white family, they removed their art and replaced it with artwork from Ikea, etc. On the day of the appraisal, they left the house and a white, male friend greet the appraiser. Otherwise, the couple made no changes or improvements to the home. This time, the house appraised for $750K, more in line with similar homes in the neighborhood.

They have sued both the lender and the appraiser for discrimination.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/18/realestate/housing-discrimination-maryland.html?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220820&instance_id=69845&nl=the-morning&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=101940&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: muwarrior69 on August 20, 2022, 01:02:25 PM
If you are going to go this route, you had better be capable of doing a lot of the upgrades yourself, or in a lot of places, be willing to either wait or pay a premium.  Hiring contractors is a bitch right now.  In my area, you can't even get contractors to come out and give a quote.  A neighbor of mine has given up on local companies and is paying a premium to bring in contractors from 100 miles away.

I got a quote from a local landscaper in March when I put down a small deposit. He just started the project this past week. He told my neighbor he wouldn't be able to start his job until late winter or early spring next year.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on August 20, 2022, 01:15:01 PM
The house we're renting has an atrocious driveway, it needs to be torn up and repaved. My landlords agreed to do something about it but were having trouble finding someone who could do it for a reasonable price and in a reasonable timeframe. Eventually, they got a referral from their handyman and found a guy who said he could do it for cheap and right away. We told our landlords that this sounded too good to be true. They put 50% down and now it's been three weeks since they were supposed to start and they haven't been able to get ahold of the guy or the handyman who referred them. Now they're out a few thousand and we have to deal with an atrocious driveway
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Retire0 on August 21, 2022, 07:03:42 AM
The house we're renting has an atrocious driveway, it needs to be torn up and repaved. My landlords agreed to do something about it but were having trouble finding someone who could do it for a reasonable price and in a reasonable timeframe. Eventually, they got a referral from their handyman and found a guy who said he could do it for cheap and right away. We told our landlords that this sounded too good to be true. They put 50% down and now it's been three weeks since they were supposed to start and they haven't been able to get ahold of the guy or the handyman who referred them. Now they're out a few thousand and we have to deal with an atrocious driveway

50% down on a driveway replacement, should’ve known right then it was a bad deal.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on August 22, 2022, 12:02:17 PM
The house we're renting has an atrocious driveway, it needs to be torn up and repaved. My landlords agreed to do something about it but were having trouble finding someone who could do it for a reasonable price and in a reasonable timeframe. Eventually, they got a referral from their handyman and found a guy who said he could do it for cheap and right away. We told our landlords that this sounded too good to be true. They put 50% down and now it's been three weeks since they were supposed to start and they haven't been able to get ahold of the guy or the handyman who referred them. Now they're out a few thousand and we have to deal with an atrocious driveway

This is one of the main reasons we're going to use a rental management firm. They have a network of contractors they use normally so if we don't have someone in mind to do the job, they can find someone. Costs a little bit out of pocket, but makes it easy to address that stuff while also handling all the legalese that we aren't expertly versed in.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Jay Bee on August 22, 2022, 02:36:58 PM
City of Minneapolis hands out free tents for people to live in. The sh1tters aren’t ideal, but the water bill is also zero
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: dgies9156 on August 23, 2022, 08:54:24 AM
We sold our Illinois home yesterday (second sale since April) and now own but one house in Florida. Some thoughts on the sale process:

1) Know your real estate agent well. You are going to have to live with him/her for up to a year. Make sure there is a trust factor. Above all, listen to them on price but verify using Realtor.Com, Zillow.com and Redfin.com.

2) Make sure your buyers understand they're buying a used house. There will be issues. In our case, our Chicago home was 38 years old. The buyer, after a bid was accepted, came back with $13,000 of changes. We said "no" but threw something at them to grease the transaction. In short, we're not paying for your renovations.

3) I hate HGTV. I hate the concept that everyone has to have a white or gray kitchen and I hate the idea that anything not white is garbage. It's a fad and it too will go away, like avocado colored toilets and earth tones.

4) Radon is a scam. Period. End of discussion. Don't trust anyone who uses instrumentation to measure radon. Ask for a calibration report before you allow it into your basement. Remediation is not expensive but a nusiance. Radon is an emotionally charged issue especially for an element that's everywhere.

5) Be realistic about pricing. As a seller, we reached for the stars on the Realtor's private network and when that didn't work, we went for the public market at her recommended price. Our's sold and most of the competition around us is still on the market.

6) Track comparable homes that go on the market when your's does. We had a spreadsheet and tracked days on market for 15 comparable homes in our area, when they reduced price and how we compared on a price per square foot to all our competition. Due it independent of the real estate agent, so you know before he/she recommends a price reduction.

7) Final thought: Because our primary residence is in Florida, we have to pay capital gains on our Illinois sale. Save every receipt you can, just in case. We're not going much, if anything, in capital gains because of that factor. That does not speak well of the Chicago suburban housing market, but it is reality.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on August 23, 2022, 09:52:12 AM
We sold our Illinois home yesterday (second sale since April) and now own but one house in Florida. Some thoughts on the sale process:

1) Know your real estate agent well. You are going to have to live with him/her for up to a year. Make sure there is a trust factor. Above all, listen to them on price but verify using Realtor.Com, Zillow.com and Redfin.com.

2) Make sure your buyers understand they're buying a used house. There will be issues. In our case, our Chicago home was 38 years old. The buyer, after a bid was accepted, came back with $13,000 of changes. We said "no" but threw something at them to grease the transaction. In short, we're not paying for your renovations.

3) I hate HGTV. I hate the concept that everyone has to have a white or gray kitchen and I hate the idea that anything not white is garbage. It's a fad and it too will go away, like avocado colored toilets and earth tones.

4) Radon is a scam. Period. End of discussion. Don't trust anyone who uses instrumentation to measure radon. Ask for a calibration report before you allow it into your basement. Remediation is not expensive but a nusiance. Radon is an emotionally charged issue especially for an element that's everywhere.

5) Be realistic about pricing. As a seller, we reached for the stars on the Realtor's private network and when that didn't work, we went for the public market at her recommended price. Our's sold and most of the competition around us is still on the market.

6) Track comparable homes that go on the market when your's does. We had a spreadsheet and tracked days on market for 15 comparable homes in our area, when they reduced price and how we compared on a price per square foot to all our competition. Due it independent of the real estate agent, so you know before he/she recommends a price reduction.

7) Final thought: Because our primary residence is in Florida, we have to pay capital gains on our Illinois sale. Save every receipt you can, just in case. We're not going much, if anything, in capital gains because of that factor. That does not speak well of the Chicago suburban housing market, but it is reality.

We've gone through three sale processes in the past year. A few thoughts on some of these:

1) Agree. Our agent is a really good buying agent, but we were disappointed with her in the selling process. Unfortunately, we didn't know that ahead of time.

3) Honestly, this goes for pretty much everything. My parents are considering moving back up from Florida but want to get their home "ready" to sell. Don't waste your time. If people want it, if they want the HGTV look, let them do it after they move in. Any last minute changes you make (new carpet, fresh paint, etc) are things they could just as easily do and will cost you more money out of pocket than it will net you in the sale.

4) There's a lot of radon in the midwest, but it's a few hundred dollars for the mitigation system. Suck it up, buttercup. We put in a mitigation system, moved into another property that already had one, and purchased a third that didn't need it.

5) Timing is also key. If you're going on the market or purchasing in March-July, you can expect some inflated prices. Once August/September hit, it's going to slow down and if you want to sell then, you have to adjust accordingly. We were able to catch a lower price on the purchase than comparable properties because we bought in August, but when we finally agreed a sale in December it hurt us on the back end. Had we held out, I'm sure we would've got more for our previous residence.

6) Yes, especially keeping up independent of your realtor. We were checking neighborhood prices on a near daily basis so we could adjust accordingly.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Scoop Snoop on August 23, 2022, 10:07:08 AM
We sold our Illinois home yesterday (second sale since April) and now own but one house in Florida. Some thoughts on the sale process:

1) Know your real estate agent well. You are going to have to live with him/her for up to a year. Make sure there is a trust factor. Above all, listen to them on price but verify using Realtor.Com, Zillow.com and Redfin.com.

2) Make sure your buyers understand they're buying a used house. There will be issues. In our case, our Chicago home was 38 years old. The buyer, after a bid was accepted, came back with $13,000 of changes. We said "no" but threw something at them to grease the transaction. In short, we're not paying for your renovations.

3) I hate HGTV. I hate the concept that everyone has to have a white or gray kitchen and I hate the idea that anything not white is garbage. It's a fad and it too will go away, like avocado colored toilets and earth tones.

4) Radon is a scam. Period. End of discussion. Don't trust anyone who uses instrumentation to measure radon. Ask for a calibration report before you allow it into your basement. Remediation is not expensive but a nusiance. Radon is an emotionally charged issue especially for an element that's everywhere.

5) Be realistic about pricing. As a seller, we reached for the stars on the Realtor's private network and when that didn't work, we went for the public market at her recommended price. Our's sold and most of the competition around us is still on the market.

6) Track comparable homes that go on the market when your's does. We had a spreadsheet and tracked days on market for 15 comparable homes in our area, when they reduced price and how we compared on a price per square foot to all our competition. Due it independent of the real estate agent, so you know before he/she recommends a price reduction.

7) Final thought: Because our primary residence is in Florida, we have to pay capital gains on our Illinois sale. Save every receipt you can, just in case. We're not going much, if anything, in capital gains because of that factor. That does not speak well of the Chicago suburban housing market, but it is reality.

Great post dgies. Regarding #2- I think it's much more than the buyers needing to be aware that they are buying an older house. It's a game to see if the sellers are desperate/anxious about closing the deal and, if so, shake them down.

#3 My wife loves those shows and I sometimes watch just to keep her happy, but I agree with you regarding the HGTV remodels. It sets unrealistic design standards and I suspect leads buyers to be super critical and in a negative mood when the homes they tour look nothing like the ones on HGTV.

#5 and 6- Excellent points! Just as in business, you must know your customer and know your market. Ignorance and/or laziness will come back to haunt you.

I was briefly in real estate after I retired and absolutely hated the business, so I left after one year. I thought I would eventually embrace the business, but it simply was never going to happen. The agents who you can trust are few and far between. I heard what they said to their clients on the phone and then what they said to other agents after the call was finished. If your agent knows that you are market savvy and will demand solid answers to your questions, great! The old adage "Trust, but verify" should be front and center.   

 



Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: dgies9156 on August 23, 2022, 10:39:50 AM
We've gone through three sale processes in the past year. A few thoughts on some of these:

4) There's a lot of radon in the midwest, but it's a few hundred dollars for the mitigation system. Suck it up, buttercup. We put in a mitigation system, moved into another property that already had one, and purchased a third that didn't need it.

Brother Brew:

I respectfully disagree. The mitigation system estimates for our house were $2,000 to $4,000. We got raped 28 years ago on the radon system requirement for our Naperville home and sadly, got raped again here. It's a gigantic fraud and the FTC should investigate.

We compared the radon results from our inspection 28 years ago to those of our buyer. It was complete and total BS. Plus the hour to hour results from the more recent test made absolutely no sense. Sadly, the cat was out of the bag and we had to offer a concession to close the deal.

One other point: Know your buyer's weakness. Our's closed on a house sale the same day and we knew they had no other options. We could be tough because the alternative was no home as thyeir children started school.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on August 23, 2022, 10:45:15 AM
I would look further for mitigation systems, then. Our most recent purchase, the previous owner was complaining and refusing to spend "thousands of dollars" on a mitigation system. The cost for testing and installation was $800, which was virtually the same price we paid to have one put in back in January. And the most recent property didn't even need the system, so after testing was done no more money had to be spent. Just not that big a deal, especially when it's likely less than 1% of the total sale cost.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on August 23, 2022, 11:08:41 AM
I respectfully disagree. The mitigation system estimates for our house were $2,000 to $4,000. We got raped 28 years ago on the radon system requirement for our Naperville home and sadly, got raped again here. It's a gigantic fraud and the FTC should investigate.

How exactly did a radon mitigation system "rape" you?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MUfan12 on August 23, 2022, 12:03:32 PM
How exactly did a radon mitigation system "rape" you?

That's some thick PVC, had to be painful.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 23, 2022, 12:23:56 PM
One other point: Know your buyer's weakness. Our's closed on a house sale the same day and we knew they had no other options. We could be tough because the alternative was no home as thyeir children started school.

Hold on.  Are you saying that you could have played hardball with the buyer after they closed on the sale of their house but before they closed on the purchase of yours?

My understanding is that unless there was a breach by the buyer of some sort, most states would require you to go through with the contract PLUS cover any additional expenses incurred.  (legal fees, housing, etc.) 

If that is your suggestion, that is terrible advice.  Not to mention unethical.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on August 23, 2022, 12:27:06 PM
The idea of holding an agreed on home purchase over a family as their children are starting school seems unnecessarily cruel as well.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: dgies9156 on August 23, 2022, 12:31:37 PM
That's some thick PVC, had to be painful.
\

Damn straight. Ouch!

Seriously, I have very little trust in the radon people. I have yet to see a radon test (absent the one on our house 28 years ago that we bought) that showed no radon. It's like a home inspector. Of course he's going to find something wrong. If he doesn't, he will be perceived as not doing his job.

On home inspections, I'd be all in favor of telling a buyer "factor your estimated repairs" into your bid. Let your inspector do his/her work and you have two options -- move forward or cancel the proposal.

Unfortunately, that's not the way things are done today!

As to the comment on hardball, twice our buyer came back looking for more based on their view of the condition of our house. What we knew was that he/she was as motivated as we were. With an approved sale contract, he/she either had to meet our terms -- or something approximating them -- or incur the cost of temporary housing while they found another buyer to nickel and dime. The temporary housing and the uprooting of the family was going to be painful.

He/she put themselves in that situation. Are you suggesting one should cave to what is perceived as unreasonable demands on the basis of children in school? Really?

That's negotiating advantage and far from unethical.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 23, 2022, 12:37:29 PM
\

Damn straight. Ouch!

Seriously, I have very little trust in the radon people. I have yet to see a radon test (absent the one on our house 28 years ago that we bought) that showed no radon.


I have sold four houses. One didn't have a radon test done. The three that did all came back well under the threshold required for remediation.

Just because something bad happens to you, that doesn't mean its a scam.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 23, 2022, 12:42:23 PM
As to the comment on hardball, twice our buyer came back looking for more based on their view of the condition of our house. What we knew was that he/she was as motivated as we were. With an approved sale contract, he/she either had to meet our terms -- or something approximating them -- or incur the cost of temporary housing while they found another buyer to nickel and dime. The temporary housing and the uprooting of the family was going to be painful.

He/she put themselves in that situation. Are you suggesting one should cave to what is perceived as unreasonable demands on the basis of children in school? Really?

That's negotiating advantage and far from unethical.


If you are saying they made demands, that you refused to meet, that is something else entirely.  And that's not the scenario that you initially laid out.

Furthermore, the buyer would need a basis on which to make those demands (home inspection, sale of their house, etc.)  They can't just say "either reduce the price by $5,000 or I am not buying it."  At worst you would keep the earnest money, but the courts would probably require them to buy it at the agreed upon price.

But again, that not what you initially said.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on August 23, 2022, 12:43:30 PM
Except that's not how it works. The offer comes before the home inspection. And if they pull out, you are obligated by law to disclose everything found in the home inspection to any potential future buyers. "Factor your estimated repairs into your bid"? How do you factor in things that aren't determined until after the inspection is complete? That's not the way things are done today.

And it's not playing hardball for a buyer to make requests after the inspection is done. It's the seller's responsibility to make the product they are selling one that is worth the price agreed on in the offer, and if they don't, they have to tell everyone else in the future all the problems that are there.

Regardless, the way you worded it came across as "We knew we could f*** them because they wouldn't have anywhere to live at the beginning of the school year."
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Jockey on August 23, 2022, 01:46:40 PM
There has been some good advice in some of the posts here that I've read.

The best advice, though (i haven't read every post so forgive me if it was given) is getting the right realtor to work with. Especially with a first house purchase because it is so scary. It took me 7 tries before I found a realtor who actually tried to help me find what I wanted.

I wanted a specific area to buy - I had realtors call me about houses on the other side of town. I wanted 3 bedrooms - I had realtors call me with 5 bedroom houses that they 'knew' I would love. A couple would call about almost every house that went up for sale.

I had realtor refuse to put in an offer. I knew that land had been purchased surrounding the house for a new subdivision. A week later a realtor for another buyer put in an even lower offer that was accepted. My realtor cost me at least $150,000.

I told every realtor that I was in no hurry and that I just wanted to come into their offices once or twice a week to look at their MLS books. Some said that was illegal. Some just said no. Finally, the 7th one said to drop in any time even if they were out of the office. I had an accepted offer within 3 weeks.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on August 23, 2022, 02:37:17 PM
That's some thick PVC, had to be painful.

It emanated from the Yadi Treasures Room. Loiuisville Sluggers, ouch.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Herman Cain on August 23, 2022, 02:52:53 PM
We sold our Illinois home yesterday (second sale since April) and now own but one house in Florida. Some thoughts on the sale process:

1) Know your real estate agent well. You are going to have to live with him/her for up to a year. Make sure there is a trust factor. Above all, listen to them on price but verify using Realtor.Com, Zillow.com and Redfin.com.

2) Make sure your buyers understand they're buying a used house. There will be issues. In our case, our Chicago home was 38 years old. The buyer, after a bid was accepted, came back with $13,000 of changes. We said "no" but threw something at them to grease the transaction. In short, we're not paying for your renovations.

3) I hate HGTV. I hate the concept that everyone has to have a white or gray kitchen and I hate the idea that anything not white is garbage. It's a fad and it too will go away, like avocado colored toilets and earth tones.

4) Radon is a scam. Period. End of discussion. Don't trust anyone who uses instrumentation to measure radon. Ask for a calibration report before you allow it into your basement. Remediation is not expensive but a nusiance. Radon is an emotionally charged issue especially for an element that's everywhere.

5) Be realistic about pricing. As a seller, we reached for the stars on the Realtor's private network and when that didn't work, we went for the public market at her recommended price. Our's sold and most of the competition around us is still on the market.

6) Track comparable homes that go on the market when your's does. We had a spreadsheet and tracked days on market for 15 comparable homes in our area, when they reduced price and how we compared on a price per square foot to all our competition. Due it independent of the real estate agent, so you know before he/she recommends a price reduction.

7) Final thought: Because our primary residence is in Florida, we have to pay capital gains on our Illinois sale. Save every receipt you can, just in case. We're not going much, if anything, in capital gains because of that factor. That does not speak well of the Chicago suburban housing market, but it is reality.
I am going through tracking the improvements made right now. Very time consuming and tedious. We had a  capital gain well in excess of the allowance and so every little bit we can add to the basis is going to be a plus.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Scoop Snoop on August 23, 2022, 03:02:31 PM
There has been some good advice in some of the posts here that I've read.

The best advice, though (i haven't read every post so forgive me if it was given) is getting the right realtor to work with. Especially with a first house purchase because it is so scary. It took me 7 tries before I found a realtor who actually tried to help me find what I wanted.

I wanted a specific area to buy - I had realtors call me about houses on the other side of town. I wanted 3 bedrooms - I had realtors call me with 5 bedroom houses that they 'knew' I would love. A couple would call about almost every house that went up for sale.

I had realtor refuse to put in an offer. I knew that land had been purchased surrounding the house for a new subdivision. A week later a realtor for another buyer put in an even lower offer that was accepted. My realtor cost me at least $150,000.

I told every realtor that I was in no hurry and that I just wanted to come into their offices once or twice a week to look at their MLS books. Some said that was illegal. Some just said no. Finally, the 7th one said to drop in any time even if they were out of the office. I had an accepted offer within 3 weeks.

Wow! Refusing to present an offer may be illegal, but that may vary by state. What was his/her excuse?

And how was looking at the old, printed MLS books illegal?

The BS about showing houses that you have no interest in whatsoever is often a case of an agent wanting to tell the owners of his/her listings how many times the house was shown. Some will also show the houses to help other agents with their listings. It's a game. Remember the old anti-drug slogan, "Just say no".

You are spot on regarding getting the right realtor. Make it very clear from the beginning what your goals are and insist on staying on track. They're selling. You're buying. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 23, 2022, 03:29:58 PM
There has been some good advice in some of the posts here that I've read.

The best advice, though (i haven't read every post so forgive me if it was given) is getting the right realtor to work with. Especially with a first house purchase because it is so scary. It took me 7 tries before I found a realtor who actually tried to help me find what I wanted.

I wanted a specific area to buy - I had realtors call me about houses on the other side of town. I wanted 3 bedrooms - I had realtors call me with 5 bedroom houses that they 'knew' I would love. A couple would call about almost every house that went up for sale.

I had realtor refuse to put in an offer. I knew that land had been purchased surrounding the house for a new subdivision. A week later a realtor for another buyer put in an even lower offer that was accepted. My realtor cost me at least $150,000.

I told every realtor that I was in no hurry and that I just wanted to come into their offices once or twice a week to look at their MLS books. Some said that was illegal. Some just said no. Finally, the 7th one said to drop in any time even if they were out of the office. I had an accepted offer within 3 weeks.

I think home buying has changed since 1967, but go on with your bad self.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: dgies9156 on August 23, 2022, 03:34:15 PM
Wow! Refusing to present an offer may be illegal, but that may vary by state. What was his/her excuse?

And how was looking at the old, printed MLS books illegal?

The BS about showing houses that you have no interest in whatsoever is often a case of an agent wanting to tell the owners of his/her listings how many times the house was shown. Some will also show the houses to help other agents with their listings. It's a game. Remember the old anti-drug slogan, "Just say no".

You are spot on regarding getting the right realtor. Make it very clear from the beginning what your goals are and insist on staying on track. They're selling. You're buying.

The showing houses with no interest just angers me to no end as a seller. When we sold our first Florida home, we had a real estate agent who showed our home to a woman in a wheelchair. The doors were not ADA compliant and the woman could not fit through the front door comfortably. The interior steps were killers and were in the home photos.

We had several home showings in Chicago with folks who had NO interest in our home or neighborhood. We also saw it when we bought in Libertyville where our agent took our specs about "no power lines out our front window and showed us -- you guessed it -- a home with power lines in the back!

As a final thought, ya'll probably misread what I was saying. Maybe I did not explain things well, but I never wanted to change the terms of the contract or use negotiating leverage in bad faith. I do use every advantage I have though and when a buyer wants more than $10,000 of improvements after signing the contract, the answer is NO. Where the leverage entered the picture is knowing the buyer hasn't got a lot of time if he/she wants to enroll in school and avoid significant incremental expenses. We communicated through both our lawyer and real estate agent we were ready to walk and asked for a new marketing plan! That solved everything.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Goose on August 23, 2022, 03:36:25 PM
Welcome back, ziggy. Put a smile on my face right out of the gate!!!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 23, 2022, 07:04:21 PM
I think home buying has changed since 1967, but go on with your bad self.

wb
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 23, 2022, 08:09:19 PM
Welcome back, ziggy. Put a smile on my face right out of the gate!!!

Monkeypox is a bïtch.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: tower912 on August 23, 2022, 08:13:39 PM
I have missed the funny ziggy.   Well played.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Lighthouse 84 on August 24, 2022, 07:37:37 AM

If you are saying they made demands, that you refused to meet, that is something else entirely.  And that's not the scenario that you initially laid out.

Furthermore, the buyer would need a basis on which to make those demands (home inspection, sale of their house, etc.)  They can't just say "either reduce the price by $5,000 or I am not buying it."  At worst you would keep the earnest money, but the courts would probably require them to buy it at the agreed upon price.

But again, that not what you initially said.
No and no.

In Illinois, even if the Buyers defaulted, or indicated they wouldn't buy because unless the Sellers reduced the price by $5,000, the Sellers don't get to just "keep the earnest money", unless both parties agreed or a court awarded the earnest money to the Sellers.  And in a residential transaction, if the Buyers backed out and Sellers sued Buyers, the successful Sellers would get money damages, but Illinois courts aren't going to specifically enforce a Buyer to buy a house. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Jay Bee on August 24, 2022, 08:23:14 AM
I’m not usually one for optional warranties, but I was pleased with my purchase of a Home Warranty (from HSA.. which I think may be based in the Madison area… guess that town is good for something at least).
 
As a seller, it’s something I’ve offered to include for the buyer as well.
 
Especially in times when inspections may be frowned upon by sellers, a buyer may want to strongly consider buying one. They’re not expensive.. with the ‘7-star upgrade’ that covers more stuff, I think I paid just over $700 for a year of coverage.
 
I’ve requested a number of services and have been pleased with the companies they’ve used and the results. Won’t list out the MANY things I’ve had addressed, but one by itself covered my warranty cost alone – issue with the water softener. Need a complete replacement.
 
You have to pay a fee (for me, $100/each) to get a service person to your property, and I would tip everyone who came out.. but, that water softener was slick. He had one in his truck. Quick visit, brand new water softener. Now my hair feels like a babies (I’m only guessing) and my Marquette gear is crisp and clean.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 24, 2022, 08:26:02 AM
No and no.

In Illinois, even if the Buyers defaulted, or indicated they wouldn't buy because unless the Sellers reduced the price by $5,000, the Sellers don't get to just "keep the earnest money", unless both parties agreed or a court awarded the earnest money to the Sellers.  And in a residential transaction, if the Buyers backed out and Sellers sued Buyers, the successful Sellers would get money damages, but Illinois courts aren't going to specifically enforce a Buyer to buy a house. 


Thank you for the clarification.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: brewcity77 on August 24, 2022, 10:04:51 AM
I’m not usually one for optional warranties, but I was pleased with my purchase of a Home Warranty (from HSA.. which I think may be based in the Madison area… guess that town is good for something at least).
 
As a seller, it’s something I’ve offered to include for the buyer as well.
 
Especially in times when inspections may be frowned upon by sellers, a buyer may want to strongly consider buying one. They’re not expensive.. with the ‘7-star upgrade’ that covers more stuff, I think I paid just over $700 for a year of coverage.
 
I’ve requested a number of services and have been pleased with the companies they’ve used and the results. Won’t list out the MANY things I’ve had addressed, but one by itself covered my warranty cost alone – issue with the water softener. Need a complete replacement.
 
You have to pay a fee (for me, $100/each) to get a service person to your property, and I would tip everyone who came out.. but, that water softener was slick. He had one in his truck. Quick visit, brand new water softener. Now my hair feels like a babies (I’m only guessing) and my Marquette gear is crisp and clean.

I think it's a great hook as a seller. Offer the one-year warranty and you're basically telling the buyer "you're okay if anything goes wrong." As someone who's used home warranties...they vary greatly. We currently have one through Cinch for our new home and despite the realtor telling us it was really easy to use, we've had nothing but problems. Too much stuff that it turns out they won't cover and when we do finally get someone out, the share we have to pay and the time it takes to get them there isn't worth it compared to just calling someone ourselves.

In the past year, we've called for a leaky toilet, roof damage, and a sump pump all looked at. The toilet call was the only one we got any benefit from, and I'm not sure the $100 was that much money saved considering we had to wait 3 weeks for them to get a plumber out. When they looked at the roof, they claimed it had no damage (despite the damage being included in the condition report when we bought the house) and the sump pump we simply couldn't wait for them to get someone out (another 3 weeks with water on the verge of backing up into the basement).
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 24, 2022, 12:42:12 PM
I’m not usually one for optional warranties, but I was pleased with my purchase of a Home Warranty (from HSA.. which I think may be based in the Madison area… guess that town is good for something at least).
 
As a seller, it’s something I’ve offered to include for the buyer as well.
 
Especially in times when inspections may be frowned upon by sellers, a buyer may want to strongly consider buying one. They’re not expensive.. with the ‘7-star upgrade’ that covers more stuff, I think I paid just over $700 for a year of coverage.
 
I’ve requested a number of services and have been pleased with the companies they’ve used and the results. Won’t list out the MANY things I’ve had addressed, but one by itself covered my warranty cost alone – issue with the water softener. Need a complete replacement.
 
You have to pay a fee (for me, $100/each) to get a service person to your property, and I would tip everyone who came out.. but, that water softener was slick. He had one in his truck. Quick visit, brand new water softener. Now my hair feels like a babies (I’m only guessing) and my Marquette gear is crisp and clean.

Agree.  Ours was totally worth the price as well.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: UWW2MU on August 25, 2022, 12:34:55 PM
Swinging the conversation back to writing letters with your offer. 

Yesterday we had our offer accepted on a house.  There were at least two other offers, one came in after ours that we're told was more attractive, but I'll never know how much more attactive it was.  However, I did include a "love letter" that told them our story.  It was genuine and heartfelt.  Apparently, it connected with the sellers and they accepted our offer over the better one. 

Since I'll never know how close the offers really were in the end I don't know the value of it.  However, I do know from our agent and the seller's agent conversations that it was the piece that turned the sale in our favor.


Now I just need to figure out how to sell my house asap when we were not at all planning/prepared to do so!!!

Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 25, 2022, 12:49:03 PM
Swinging the conversation back to writing letters with your offer. 

Yesterday we had our offer accepted on a house.  There were at least two other offers, one came in after ours that we're told was more attractive, but I'll never know how much more attactive it was.  However, I did include a "love letter" that told them our story.  It was genuine and heartfelt.  Apparently, it connected with the sellers and they accepted our offer over the better one. 

Since I'll never know how close the offers really were in the end I don't know the value of it.  However, I do know from our agent and the seller's agent conversations that it was the piece that turned the sale in our favor.


Now I just need to figure out how to sell my house asap when we were not at all planning/prepared to do so!!!


I don’t think this is a good trend. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2022, 01:06:13 PM

I don’t think this is a good trend.

Why?

A heartless prick like you wouldn't be swayed by a love letter, but someone who's  more emotional might be.  And it got UWW his house.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Babybluejeans on August 25, 2022, 01:14:08 PM
Yikes, Zigs, slow down on the coffee.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 25, 2022, 01:17:21 PM
Why?

A heartless prick like you wouldn't be swayed by a love letter, but someone who's  more emotional might be.  And it got UWW his house.


I don’t blame UWW for writing it and getting it. It just opens the door to discriminatory practices. The National Association of Realtors has expressed such concerns to their members.

https://www.nar.realtor/fair-housing-corner/love-letters-or-liability-letters

When my kid bought a house the realtor only agreed to deliver the letter after their offer was accepted and all contingencies cleared.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 25, 2022, 01:18:08 PM
Yikes, Zigs, slow down on the coffee.

One would think a vacation from here would have calmed him down. But alas…
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2022, 01:54:09 PM
One would think a vacation from here would have calmed him down. But alas…

Snowflake
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 25, 2022, 02:03:54 PM
Snowflake

I mean you can insult me all you want. I really don’t care much for your opinions so it just slides off my back.

It just makes you look bitter and sad.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Goose on August 25, 2022, 02:06:33 PM
ziggy

Kind of funny how the mope squad thinks you are bitter and sad. I think you are honest and refreshing.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 25, 2022, 02:09:40 PM
ziggy

Kind of funny how the mope squad thinks you are bitter and sad. I think you are honest and refreshing.

That’s why I’m looking forward to the new message board.  Refreshing honesty.  Can’t wait for it!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 25, 2022, 02:12:11 PM
ziggy

Kind of funny how the mope squad thinks you are bitter and sad. I think you are honest and refreshing.

Careful now, I'm not sure you'll be able to breathe with that much of Ziggy's member down your throat.

#wouldn'twantyoutochoke

#flipmopesquad
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Goose on August 25, 2022, 02:17:13 PM
hards


It is cute when the mope squad defends each other. I enjoy when the bitter posters gang up and have some joy in life. Plus, nice to see the squad move on from bashing Naples, FL and find a new topic to enjoy.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 25, 2022, 02:18:53 PM
I don't understand why we can't all be friends, hey?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 25, 2022, 02:22:32 PM
hards


It is cute when the mope squad defends each other. I enjoy when the bitter posters gang up and have some joy in life. Plus, nice to see the squad move on from bashing Naples, FL and find a new topic to enjoy.

I couldn't even tell you any of these guys first or last names.  We certainly aren't a squad of any sort, but if you want to create some fantasy about us all being 'boys' go right ahead.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2022, 02:25:26 PM
That’s why I’m looking forward to the new message board.  Refreshing honesty.  Can’t wait for it!

We'll be sure to lose your invite.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2022, 02:26:59 PM
I couldn't even tell you any of these guys first or last names.  We certainly aren't a squad of any sort, but if you want to create some fantasy about us all being 'boys' go right ahead.

No, the hive mind of the Mope Squad just magically forms daily.   ::) ::)
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Goose on August 25, 2022, 02:29:18 PM
hards


It is a common mindset and arrogance that brings you and the squad together and I am fine with that. You fella's like to make meat eater references at a drop of hat and how do you know we know all of the meat eater's name?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Uncle Rico on August 25, 2022, 02:32:45 PM
We'll be sure to lose your invite.

Aw, shucks. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on August 25, 2022, 02:40:34 PM
ziggy

Kind of funny how the mope squad thinks you are bitter and sad. I think you are honest and refreshing.

You think calling someone a heartless prick with no provocation is honest and refreshing? I thought better of you Goose
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Goose on August 25, 2022, 02:46:41 PM
TAMU

Truth be told, I think there has been provocation from all sides over the years and nothing shocks me. That said, I do think Sultan has everything that comes his way because he has style that I think goes beyond friendly jabs. So, I guess I think ziggy was honest, which I do find refreshing. Plus, I know ziggy and do not think he is bitter or sad. I find him to be one of the cleverest guys on scoop.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on August 25, 2022, 02:54:09 PM
You think calling someone a heartless prick with no provocation is honest and refreshing? I thought better of you Goose

You new here, kin?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Jay Bee on August 25, 2022, 02:58:11 PM
it just slides off my back.

paws
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: tower912 on August 25, 2022, 02:59:45 PM
Masses
Of
Positive
Energy


I can lean into that. 
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 25, 2022, 03:00:07 PM
No, the hive mind of the Mope Squad just magically forms daily.   ::) ::)

lmao
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 25, 2022, 03:03:28 PM
hards


It is a common mindset and arrogance that brings you and the squad together and I am fine with that. You fella's like to make meat eater references at a drop of hat and how do you know we know all of the meat eater's name?

I mean, the proof is in the pudding.  You guys talk about meeting up and blowing each other all the time.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.  But you can probably stop imagining that the 'mope squad' communicates outside of what you see here. 

Well, if they are, I'm certainly being left out of their parties.  But who could blame them?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Goose on August 25, 2022, 03:10:51 PM
hards

What is your fixation on guys blowing each other? Two posts this afternoon on the very topic. Honestly, it seems strange that an accepting guy like you would ever need to make such references. Your posts come across as anti gay and I thought we were past that way of thinking in the USA.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 25, 2022, 03:14:12 PM
hards

What is your fixation on guys blowing each other? Two posts this afternoon on the very topic. Honestly, it seems strange that an accepting guy like you would ever need to make such references. Your posts come across as anti gay and I thought we were past that way of thinking in the USA.

Hey man, I never said it was a bad thing at all.  Sounds like a good time, actually.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: 4everwarriors on August 25, 2022, 03:20:38 PM
Hell, have at it, hey?


#freeziggy2022v2


Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on August 25, 2022, 03:22:06 PM
TAMU

Truth be told, I think there has been provocation from all sides over the years and nothing shocks me. That said, I do think Sultan has everything that comes his way because he has style that I think goes beyond friendly jabs. So, I guess I think ziggy was honest, which I do find refreshing. Plus, I know ziggy and do not think he is bitter or sad. I find him to be one of the cleverest guys on scoop.

You new here, kin?

Is that really how you guys go about Scoop? Anytime Sultan or another poster who has pissed you off enough posts, you attack them regardless of what has been said in a thread? I mean I remember things that others have said, and it certainly colors my opinion of specific posters, but I don't go into random threads and insult them when they haven't said anything provoking in that thread.

I really never thought of either of you as bitter or sad. Ziggy seems pissy at times but not bitter or sad. But if you're really following around Sultan to different threads to insult him because he was mean to you in the past...that does seem a little bitter and sad. A little high schoolish too. I mean at least be more clever than "heartless prick".
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 25, 2022, 03:22:54 PM
Why you gotta dox me like that, 4ever.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: rocket surgeon on August 25, 2022, 03:23:12 PM
Careful now, I'm not sure you'll be able to breathe with that much of Ziggy's member down your throat.

#wouldn'twantyoutochoke

#flipmopesquad

this sounds like a been there done that comment
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Hards Alumni on August 25, 2022, 03:24:16 PM
this sounds like a been there done that comment

I wonder if Goose will show up to defend me from your anti-gay rhetoric.

I'm in need of a Lancelot!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Goose on August 25, 2022, 03:29:06 PM
TAMU

I think you know my main reason for visiting scoop and it is not to have a confrontation with Fluff.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: UWW2MU on August 25, 2022, 03:30:56 PM
So I think what most of you are saying is "Congrats UWW!"


Seriously though, I don't think the letter's are a bad trend by themselves.  Life isn't all transactional and money isn't everything, this is a way to facilitate that idea between two groups who may agree with that point.  Can you run afoul of some discrimination issues?  YES!  But the realtor can be a gatekeeper on that, making sure there's no obvious legal issues or information that can be used to discriminate (one way or another).   

I know though that if a realtor just straight up refused to send the letter until after an offer is accepted without justifying it based on content, I'd be pissed and I would find myself a new buyer's agent.

Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on August 25, 2022, 03:43:21 PM
TAMU

I think you know my main reason for visiting scoop and it is not to have a confrontation with Fluff.

No one ever said it was your main reason but you just cosigned that behavior. Lately it seems to be Ziggy's.

EDIT: Holy crap, I was curious so I looked at Ziggy's posts. Besides one post about season tickets and another about JFB, Ziggy doesn't mention Marquette basketball once in his last 233 posts. At least 80% of them are insults towards one of MU82, Sultan, Pakuni, Hards, TSmith, or Jockey (maybe missing a name or two), about 10% are posts about other sports, 8% are other, and 2% are telling GRR Martin "Finish the books you fat unnatural carnal knowledge" (which I couldn't agree with more)
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Goose on August 25, 2022, 03:44:35 PM
TAMU

I’m ready for the season to start.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: WithoutBias on August 25, 2022, 04:03:57 PM
The irony of the meat eating men flocking to this thread to defend their own, mere hours after mocking the "mope squad" for flocking to this thread to defend their own, is very, very rich!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on August 25, 2022, 04:10:41 PM
So I think what most of you are saying is "Congrats UWW!"


Seriously though, I don't think the letter's are a bad trend by themselves.  Life isn't all transactional and money isn't everything, this is a way to facilitate that idea between two groups who may agree with that point.  Can you run afoul of some discrimination issues?  YES!  But the realtor can be a gatekeeper on that, making sure there's no obvious legal issues or information that can be used to discriminate (one way or another).   

I know though that if a realtor just straight up refused to send the letter until after an offer is accepted without justifying it based on content, I'd be pissed and I would find myself a new buyer's agent.


How is a buyer's agent supposed to judge that vis-a-vis another letter submitted by another's agent?  Hypothetically, what if you wrote a very nice letter about starting a family or whatever, and the other buyer was an older mixed race couple with no children? Now there are potential issues.

Life isn't always transactional, but there is plenty of history that shows that this can be abused - many times in ways that are completely unintentional no doubt.  But that is still problematic.

This is why the Chicago Assocation of Realtors is basically advising its members to stay away from the entire practice.  It makes sense.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Herman Cain on August 25, 2022, 05:03:40 PM
An NFL player bought a house nearby . Paid a huge price per square foot $1500. Another loony person bought the house next to that for a similar per square foot Unfortunately the taxes will most likely rose for everyone else in the neighborhood .
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: MU82 on August 25, 2022, 10:33:34 PM
An NFL player bought a house nearby . Paid a huge price per square foot $1500. Another loony person bought the house next to that for a similar per square foot Unfortunately the taxes will most likely rose for everyone else in the neighborhood .

Sounds like you'll make a killing selling your house to an NFL player. Congrats 9-9-9 ... pretty damn good for a dead guy!
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: UWW2MU on August 26, 2022, 12:05:07 PM

How is a buyer's agent supposed to judge that vis-a-vis another letter submitted by another's agent?  Hypothetically, what if you wrote a very nice letter about starting a family or whatever, and the other buyer was an older mixed race couple with no children? Now there are potential issues.

Life isn't always transactional, but there is plenty of history that shows that this can be abused - many times in ways that are completely unintentional no doubt.  But that is still problematic.

This is why the Chicago Assocation of Realtors is basically advising its members to stay away from the entire practice.  It makes sense.

I'm not sure what you mean by asking how a buyers agent would know what another buyer (besides their own buyer) letter contained... The buyers agent would only know what their own buyer's letter contained.  The sellers agent would see both, but why would a buyers agent?

And you can come up with all sorts of ways a seller could discriminate.  They could just look up the potential buyers online... they have the names and addresses on the offer.  Most people have a social media presence of some sort.

Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: warriorchick on August 29, 2022, 10:20:46 PM



And you can come up with all sorts of ways a seller could discriminate.  They could just look up the potential buyers online... they have the names and addresses on the offer.  Most people have a social media presence of some sort.

It's all about proof, and that letter could be used as evidence.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Jay Bee on August 30, 2022, 12:47:46 PM
Sounds like we have consensus…

UWW2MU2slammer
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: UWW2MU on September 08, 2022, 03:29:38 PM
It's all about proof, and that letter could be used as evidence.

That's no proof of anything.  You can't show intent of the seller based on a letter that the buyer sends.  It would be pretty hard to connect the dots, especially if the letter doesn't overtly give away any information regarding protected categories.

Sounds like we have consensus…

UWW2MU2slammer

Whoa whoa whoa...  I'm the buyer in this case!  I'm not going to jail, the sellers are!


Although, we just listed our current house and my neighbor asked me if we could sell to a "hot single mom."  I told him I'd see what I could do.   ::)
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Sultan Sultanberger on September 08, 2022, 03:40:01 PM
That's no proof of anything.  You can't show intent of the seller based on a letter that the buyer sends.  It would be pretty hard to connect the dots, especially if the letter doesn't overtly give away any information regarding protected categories.


Hypothetically...

Someone gets two offers

Offer One:  $250,000 from a white couple who writes a beautiful letter about how they would like to raise their children in that house. 

Offer Two:  $260,000, but otherwise the same as offer one, from a gay, mixed race couple who writes a pretty crappy letter detailing that they don't plan to have any children.

Can't you see how problematic this can be if the buyer choses #1?  And why an agent would want to stay far away from that?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: ZiggysFryBoy on September 08, 2022, 04:39:38 PM
No one ever said it was your main reason but you just cosigned that behavior. Lately it seems to be Ziggy's.

EDIT: Holy crap, I was curious so I looked at Ziggy's posts. Besides one post about season tickets and another about JFB, Ziggy doesn't mention Marquette basketball once in his last 233 posts. At least 80% of them are insults towards one of MU82, Sultan, Pakuni, Hards, TSmith, or Jockey (maybe missing a name or two), about 10% are posts about other sports, 8% are other, and 2% are telling GRR Martin "Finish the books you fat unnatural carnal knowledge" (which I couldn't agree with more)

Rent free, aína?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: dgies9156 on September 08, 2022, 05:01:39 PM

Hypothetically...

Someone gets two offers

Offer One:  $250,000 from a white couple who writes a beautiful letter about how they would like to raise their children in that house. 

Offer Two:  $260,000, but otherwise the same as offer one, from a gay, mixed race couple who writes a pretty crappy letter detailing that they don't plan to have any children.

Can't you see how problematic this can be if the buyer choses #1?  And why an agent would want to stay far away from that?

A big issue is the real estate agent’s behavior in the process. I theoretically could sell to anyone I want, no questions asked, and be as stupid as I want to be. Or as bigoted as Archie Bunker. It’s tough to prove an individual case, no matter how bad.

But if the real estate agent, for any personal reputational reasons, pushes a sale away from a protected class, then there is a problem. Especially if there is a pattern of behavior that can be traced. Then, anti-discrimination laws can and will enter the picture.

Case in point: Back in the 1980s, when my parents moved back to the North Shore, my Mom found a listing for a home she thought would be very nice. The real estate agent said back to Mom, “oh, you don’t want to live there — that’s a Jewish neighborhood.”

Fortunately, those days are mostly behind us.

Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on September 08, 2022, 05:18:58 PM
Rent free, aína?

Yes, you seem to have at least 6 scoopers living in your head rent free. That's a good summation.
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: tower912 on September 08, 2022, 05:20:56 PM
When banned, which scoopers live rent free in Ziggy's head?
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: UWW2MU on September 09, 2022, 08:29:10 AM
A big issue is the real estate agent’s behavior in the process. I theoretically could sell to anyone I want, no questions asked, and be as stupid as I want to be. Or as bigoted as Archie Bunker. It’s tough to prove an individual case, no matter how bad.

But if the real estate agent, for any personal reputational reasons, pushes a sale away from a protected class, then there is a problem. Especially if there is a pattern of behavior that can be traced. Then, anti-discrimination laws can and will enter the picture.

Case in point: Back in the 1980s, when my parents moved back to the North Shore, my Mom found a listing for a home she thought would be very nice. The real estate agent said back to Mom, “oh, you don’t want to live there — that’s a Jewish neighborhood.”

Fortunately, those days are mostly behind us.


This right here.   
Title: Re: House Buying
Post by: Jockey on September 09, 2022, 12:07:46 PM
Yes, you seem to have at least 6 scoopers living in your head rent free. That's a good summation.

I think there’s a lot of room in there. Space has to be filled somehow.