MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MuggsyB on January 16, 2022, 09:33:55 AM

Title: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MuggsyB on January 16, 2022, 09:33:55 AM
I've never coached but is there something you experts see in his J that is causing some of his probs?  My personal take is that this is mostly a confidence issue.  He's shooting 84% from the stripe.  Anyway, in order to reach our ceiling, which I believe is top 4/5 in the BEast, the rebounding and TK's shooting percentage needs to go up.  Kolek does a lot of good things on the floor and we are at our best when he is on his game.  I just feel if he can find his confidence with his jumper this MU team becomes monumentally more difficult to guard. 

Having watched every team in the BEast I honestly don't think there's much of a separation between the assumed top trio and us.  The difference I see is that our margin for error may be smaller with the rebounding issues.  Nevertheless, I do feel we have the overall personnel to be in that top 5 and that our spurtability is among the best in the conference.   If Kolek in particular can just increase his percentages a bit I feel we're even more explosive and a big problem for our competition.  In other words it takes us from bubble to a solid tourney team Imao.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: tower912 on January 16, 2022, 09:37:32 AM
Coach Smart keeps saying he is the best shooter in practice and in drills.  He shot decently last season.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Pakuni on January 16, 2022, 09:43:27 AM
I've never coached but is there something you experts see in his J that is causing some of his probs?  My personal take is that this is mostly a confidence issue.  He's shooting 84% from the stripe.  Anyway, in order to reach our ceiling, which I believe is top 4/5 in the BEast, the rebounding and TK's shooting percentage needs to go up.  Kolek does a lot of good things on the floor and we are at our best when he is on his game.  I just feel if he can find his confidence with his jumper this MU team becomes monumentally more difficult to guard. 

Why do some people insist on Kolek being something he''s not? He's not a shooter. Don't force him to be one. It's not a coincidence that MU has gone on this four-game run with TK shooting less.
Over the past four games, he's taken a total of 22 shots, 10 from three.
In the previous four losses, 34 shots, 18 from three.

Could he develop into a better shooter over the next couple of seasons? Sure. But right now, let him do what he does best.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MuggsyB on January 16, 2022, 09:44:12 AM
Coach Smart keeps saying he is the best shooter in practice and in drills.  He shot decently last season.

I know, but he's really struggling this season.  And they're clean looks.  The thing is it changes everything in our h-c offense if he can score the ball consistently.  He's a tremendous distributor.  I just feel we will have more space to operate, guys will get better shots each possession, and defenses can't ignore him, if he can hit some threes along with the floater.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Scoop Snoop on January 16, 2022, 09:44:58 AM
I've never coached but is there something you experts see in his J that is causing some of his probs?  My personal take is that this is mostly a confidence issue.  He's shooting 84% from the stripe.  Anyway, in order to reach our ceiling, which I believe is top 4/5 in the BEast, the rebounding and TK's shooting percentage needs to go up.  Kolek does a lot of good things on the floor and we are at our best when he is on his game.  I just feel if he can find his confidence with his jumper this MU team becomes monumentally more difficult to guard. 

Having watched every team in the BEast I honestly don't think there's much of a separation between the assumed top trio and us.  The difference I see is that our margin for error may be smaller with the rebounding issues.  Nevertheless, I do feel we have the overall personnel to be in that top 5 and that our spurtability is among the best in the conference.   If Kolek in particular can just increase his percentages a bit I feel we're even more explosive and a big problem for our competition.  In other words it takes us from bubble to a solid tourney team Imao.

"Spurtability" Muggs?  OK, what other teams are competing with us on spurtability?

Not sure why Kolek has had shooting problems in games but he is definitely getting better (yeah, I know-in a couple of games he could not have gotten much worse) but as you stated, he does a LOT of good things on the floor.

 
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Pakuni on January 16, 2022, 09:45:29 AM
Coach Smart keeps saying he is the best shooter in practice and in drills.  He shot decently last season.

(https://d37oebn0w9ir6a.cloudfront.net/account_481/image2_b8576f17784f7a5e2b6c038e56b3101d.gif)
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MuggsyB on January 16, 2022, 09:47:52 AM
Why do some people insist on Kolek being something he''s not? He's not a shooter. Don't force him to be one. It's not a coincidence that MU has gone on this four-game run with TK shooting less.
Over the past four games, he's taken a total of 22 shots, 10 from three.
In the previous four losses, 34 shots, 18 from three.

Could he develop into a better shooter over the next couple of seasons? Sure. But right now, let him do what he does best.

I'm not insisting on anything Pakumi.  It's about shooting better than his percentages which to put it mildly are not good.  Nowhere have I suggested he become a volume shooter or look to be one of our top scorers.  I'm essentially hoping he can give us something like 3-7 or 4-9 in games, regardless if he takes threes, in lieu of what his percentage is currently. 
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: panda on January 16, 2022, 09:48:23 AM
We need him to make layups and midrange pull up to keep defenses honest on the pick and roll. Everything else is gravy.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: User Name #251 on January 16, 2022, 09:49:25 AM
I think his shot looks fine.  Regardless, he isn't going to mess with any mechanics in January.  We just gotta hope that they start to fall, which I blame a combination of speed of the game at this level and confidence. 
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MuggsyB on January 16, 2022, 09:50:01 AM
We need him to make layups and midrange pull up to keep defenses honest on the pick and roll. Everything else is gravy.

Perhaps this is more realistic and a better more simple analysis. 
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on January 16, 2022, 09:55:12 AM
Fitness and mentality. His mechanics are fine, he’s clearly a good player. He’s being asked to do a lot, and his shooting is what is suffering. Yesterday, his mental strength was not up to his standards nor was his fitness level (perhaps he is under the weather) and it affected his game. I’m not sold he is or isn’t a shooter yet.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: GB Warrior on January 16, 2022, 09:55:24 AM
Why do some people insist on Kolek being something he''s not? He's not a shooter. Don't force him to be one. It's not a coincidence that MU has gone on this four-game run with TK shooting less.
Over the past four games, he's taken a total of 22 shots, 10 from three.
In the previous four losses, 34 shots, 18 from three.

Could he develop into a better shooter over the next couple of seasons? Sure. But right now, let him do what he does best.

Don't think he needs to be a lights out shooter - just needs to be a threat to hit if left open. Don't do that and his passing windows start closing.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MuggsyB on January 16, 2022, 09:56:38 AM
"Spurtability" Muggs?  OK, what other teams are competing with us on spurtability?

Not sure why Kolek has had shooting problems in games but he is definitely getting better (yeah, I know-in a couple of games he could not have gotten much worse) but as you stated, he does a LOT of good things on the floor.

My definition of spurtability is a team capable of inflicting damage, with a medieval type arsenal, that directly leads to buckets in heavy numbers.  Meaning 15-2 spurts or what have you.  MU can field a line-up with multiple guys, from multiple spots, that fit this description.  Nova can also go ballistic with small ball but do not have an interior player.  UCONN probably has the most explosive roster with their inside/outside game and Xavier also has their moments.  However, I think JLew gives MU a bit of an X-factor.  Regardless, we are 1-3 in my spurtability rankings.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: User Name #251 on January 16, 2022, 09:58:07 AM
My definition of spurtability is a team capable of inflicting damage, with a medieval type arsenal, that directly leads to buckets in heavy numbers.


What does this even mean?
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: User Name #251 on January 16, 2022, 09:58:40 AM
Fitness and mentality. His mechanics are fine, he’s clearly a good player. He’s being asked to do a lot, and his shooting is what is suffering. Yesterday, his mental strength was not up to his standards nor was his fitness level (perhaps he is under the weather) and it affected his game. I’m not sold he is or isn’t a shooter yet.


I think SHU's interior length was a big issue for him yesterday too.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Goose on January 16, 2022, 10:00:40 AM
Muggsy

We once had a program that accomplished your goal virtually every game for a 13 year period. I am 100% in on that style of basketball. It will happen, maybe not this year, but we will have that type of program shortly.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Pakuni on January 16, 2022, 10:01:59 AM
Don't think he needs to be a lights out shooter - just needs to be a threat to hit if left open. Don't do that and his passing windows start closing.

Conventional wisdom says you're right, but the results are the results. MU is playing really well right now, and it's not because Kolek is shooting better.
One could argue (I know, I know ... causation/correlation) that it's at least in part because he's shooting less.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: JakeBarnes on January 16, 2022, 10:05:13 AM

What does this even mean?

I think it means Kolek needs to have a mace and a shield?
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: User Name #251 on January 16, 2022, 10:06:01 AM
I think it means Kolek needs to have a mace and a shield?

Also a trebuchet would be pretty intimidating.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: JakeBarnes on January 16, 2022, 10:08:32 AM
Also a trebuchet would be pretty intimidating.

A trebuchet would definitely help scoring from deep.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: willie warrior on January 16, 2022, 10:12:39 AM
I've never coached but is there something you experts see in his J that is causing some of his probs?  My personal take is that this is mostly a confidence issue.  He's shooting 84% from the stripe.  Anyway, in order to reach our ceiling, which I believe is top 4/5 in the BEast, the rebounding and TK's shooting percentage needs to go up.  Kolek does a lot of good things on the floor and we are at our best when he is on his game.  I just feel if he can find his confidence with his jumper this MU team becomes monumentally more difficult to guard. 

Having watched every team in the BEast I honestly don't think there's much of a separation between the assumed top trio and us.  The difference I see is that our margin for error may be smaller with the rebounding issues.  Nevertheless, I do feel we have the overall personnel to be in that top 5 and that our spurtability is among the best in the conference.   If Kolek in particular can just increase his percentages a bit I feel we're even more explosive and a big problem for our competition.  In other words it takes us from bubble to a solid tourney team Imao.
he does not follow through in a smooth motion and has no lift to it. It appears to not have enough elevation, more like he is jerking it on a flat trajectory.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: NotAnAlum on January 16, 2022, 10:21:33 AM
Why do some people insist on Kolek being something he''s not? He's not a shooter.

Something he's not???  Last year at George Mason he WAS a shooter.  He hit 35% of his 3s and 3/4 of his attempts were 3 pointers so he WAS a long range snipper.  What he was not last year was much of a distributor.  That is what he has become this year and its good for the team that he has.  that extra load has cut down on his 3 point shooting.  So he WAS a very good shooter and its certainly reasonable for people to hope he can do both.  But its his point guard distribution skills where we have asked him to be something he wasn't and so far its worked.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Scoop Snoop on January 16, 2022, 10:23:01 AM
A trebuchet would definitely help scoring from deep.

Let's go back to being the Warriors and have Joan of Arc as our mascot. She could ride out onto the court on a huge horse and in full armor, charging at the opponents during time outs or scaring the crap out of coaches like Cooley. If a bat terrified him, just think what Joan of Arc swinging a sword and charging at him with her horse would do. Better yet, imagine if she was there yesterday when Williard wouldn't shut up?
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Elonsmusk on January 16, 2022, 10:24:44 AM
I think he's a little sped up, still adjusting to the uptick in high major athleticism, AND being asked to do so much as the PG.  He played off the ball primarily last year.

His shot does seem a little flat, and his form reminds me a bit of Michael Redd - seems to be a bit of a slingshot, flatter release than traditional form. 

I think he'll improve and is a better shooter than what we've seen so far, but his playmaking/vision are incredible asset to the team.  He's also a solid on-ball defender.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MuggsyB on January 16, 2022, 10:26:15 AM
Stop mocking me Fluffy.  Scoop Snoop asked for a definition and I explained it perfectly.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: asdfasdf on January 16, 2022, 10:26:45 AM

I think SHU's interior length was a big issue for him yesterday too.

I agree with this. The last few games kolek has been shooting more layups. Obiagu shut that down last night. Some guys can go into obiagu's body and challenge him, right now kolek cant do that.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: JTJ3 on January 16, 2022, 10:27:47 AM
He had way better elevation on his jumper at GMU.  For some reason he's not using his legs as much this year.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MuggsyB on January 16, 2022, 10:29:33 AM
Muggsy

We once had a program that accomplished your goal virtually every game for a 13 year period. I am 100% in on that style of basketball. It will happen, maybe not this year, but we will have that type of program shortly.

I couldn't agree more Goose.  The trajectory for MU is sky high, I stated that after the WVU game.  I can get inpatient but have no doubt that in due time MU will turn the corner.  Short-term we do need a glass cleaner of course.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MuggsyB on January 16, 2022, 10:30:35 AM
He had way better elevation on his jumper at GMU.  For some reason he's not using his legs as much this year.

Interesting....I hadn't noticed.  Did he lose some hops?
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MU82 on January 16, 2022, 10:33:57 AM
(https://d37oebn0w9ir6a.cloudfront.net/account_481/image2_b8576f17784f7a5e2b6c038e56b3101d.gif)
Yeah, Shaq used to say he was a great free-throw shooter in practice. If true, that can only mean he choked in games, so it wasn't something to brag about.

I am NOT saying Tyler is choking. It's hard to know exactly what the deal is. Sometimes his shot looks flat with little rotation, but sometimes it looks OK. Sometimes, especially down the stretch of games, he looks like he has no legs, which is expected given his PT and responsibility. So perhaps it's a mix of inconsistency, lack of confidence, the need to get him a little more rest, and the simple fact that -- as you perfectly said -- "he's not a shooter."

I also agree that the middle of a season is not the best time to be messing around with his shooting form. During the offseason, hopefully he'll improve as a 3-point threat while also adding a little bit of a float/pull-up game. He seems like a bright and motivated guy, so if he's got the ability to improve his game, he will.

Otherwise, he, like the rest of the team, has exceeded most expectations. We are fortunate to have the Big East assist leader, and a very good game-organizer, in our backcourt. He's a big reason why we are a contender for a spot in the NCAA tournament.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: JTJ3 on January 16, 2022, 10:36:49 AM
Interesting....I hadn't noticed.  Did he lose some hops?

Nah, he wouldnt just lose his hops unless he's hurt.  I'd guess in games his legs just arent there due to how much responsibility he has in all the other areas.  He probably actually knows it, its just a tough thing to focus on in games with everything else going on.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Pakuni on January 16, 2022, 10:40:03 AM
Something he's not???  Last year at George Mason he WAS a shooter.  He hit 35% of his 3s and 3/4 of his attempts were 3 pointers so he WAS a long range snipper.  What he was not last year was much of a distributor.  That is what he has become this year and its good for the team that he has.  that extra load has cut down on his 3 point shooting.  So he WAS a very good shooter and its certainly reasonable for people to hope he can do both.  But its his point guard distribution skills where we have asked him to be something he wasn't and so far its worked.

Hmm. We seem to have different definitions of "long-range sniper" and "very good shooter."
Against a far lesser level of competition (the A-10 was the 13th best conference last year, per Warren Nolan), Kolek shot .353 from three-point range at George Mason. For a little perspective, that would have put him behind Dawson Garcia (.356) and just ahead of Jamal Cain (.343) on last year's MU team.
On the 2019-20 MU team, that three-point shooting percentage would have put him behind Sacar Anim, Brendan Bailey, Jamal Cain and Symir Torrance. Again, that's in the 13th best league, and George Mason played zero P6 opponents last year.

All that said, we're working with an 18-game sample size at this point, which is just four fewer games than George Mason played all last season. At some point, don't you have to give up on what he was last year with a different team and different level of competition, and accept who he is now with this team and this level of competition?
Are Michigan State fans still arguing that Joey Hauser is a long-range sniper because of what he did as a frosh at Marquette?

Look, the guy's a fantastic passer and the offense hums when he's focused on that. Why mess with that?
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Spirit Of James on January 16, 2022, 10:41:01 AM
He has the yips, IMO. Guessing it’s mostly a mental hurdle at this point
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: 21Jumpstreet on January 16, 2022, 10:41:08 AM

I think SHU's interior length was a big issue for him yesterday too.

Totally agree, which, I think, affected his mindset. When I saw how SHU defend the pick and slide with OSO, I thought okay TK is gonna have to adapt his game a bit. Unfortunately whatever ailed him yesterday kept him from adjusting well.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MU62 on January 16, 2022, 10:47:34 AM
Kolak is awesome.  He does not take a lot of shots and does not need to.  He makes our team go when he is in there.  He helps the other guys look great.  He is as good an assist man as any other MU player I have seen watching games live and near the floor in over 60 years.
   
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Lennys Tap on January 16, 2022, 10:47:50 AM
Stop mocking me Fluffy.  Scoop Snoop asked for a definition and I explained it perfectly.

Muggsy - your point was a good one that was easily understood. Don’t worry that it went over a few people’s heads.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: User Name #251 on January 16, 2022, 10:49:55 AM
Stop mocking me Fluffy.  Scoop Snoop asked for a definition and I explained it perfectly.

And I asked a follow up question because I have no idea what a “medieval type arsenal” means in a basketball context. 
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: forgetful on January 16, 2022, 10:58:03 AM
I don't see much difference in the shot form, or his lift between MU and George Mason. Rather just different types of shots.

He had more 3's on kickouts from the post/lane at George Mason. That is an easier shot for most players.

Also, I'd like to see his shot close-up. But on some of the videos/games it looks like he might be using his thumb a bit on his right hand to aid the shot. I think that is what leads to him missing left or right often.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: panda on January 16, 2022, 10:58:47 AM
Muggsy - your point was a good one that was easily understood. Don’t worry that it went over a few people’s heads.

Don’t worry Muggsy. Your creative analogies are much appreciated and understood by most. Keep it up.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MU82 on January 16, 2022, 11:00:55 AM
Something he's not???  Last year at George Mason he WAS a shooter.  He hit 35% of his 3s and 3/4 of his attempts were 3 pointers so he WAS a long range snipper.  What he was not last year was much of a distributor.  That is what he has become this year and its good for the team that he has.  that extra load has cut down on his 3 point shooting.  So he WAS a very good shooter and its certainly reasonable for people to hope he can do both.  But its his point guard distribution skills where we have asked him to be something he wasn't and so far its worked.

With all due respect ... a .358 percentage does not make a guy a sniper or a very good shooter.

That would have ranked him 71st in the nation last year if he had enough makes to qualify. This season, that would rank him 100th. (Elliott would be tied for 4th but he doesn't quite qualify to be among official leaders.)

Along with a career .814 FT percentage, Tyler's decent showing last season does give hope that, over time, he can be a respectable shooter from deep.

Agree that it's possible his added responsibilities this season have adversely affected his shooting.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: ATL MU Warrior on January 16, 2022, 11:04:18 AM
With all due respect ... a .358 percentage does not make a guy a sniper or a very good shooter.

That would have ranked him 71st in the nation last year if he had enough makes to qualify. This season, that would rank him 100th. (Elliott would be tied for 4th but he doesn't quite qualify to be among official leaders.)

Along with a career .814 FT percentage, Tyler's decent showing last season does give hope that, over time, he can be a respectable shooter from deep.

Agree that it's possible his added responsibilities this season have adversely affected his shooting.
Are you suggesting top 100 out of approximately 4,300 players (top 2%) isn’t very good?
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: forgetful on January 16, 2022, 11:08:29 AM
Are you suggesting top 100 out of approximately 4,300 players (top 2%) isn’t very good?

Not speaking for 82, but he was giving Kolek the benefit of assuming he had enough makes to qualify. He didn't. Neither did the vast majority of the 4300 players.

If you included all, with no qualifying makes, he would be no where near top 100.

Also, not sure where he got the #71 rank from. To make the top 100, with qualifying number of makes required shooting 43.4% last year (based on ESPN stats).
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MU82 on January 16, 2022, 11:11:03 AM
Are you suggesting top 100 out of approximately 4,300 players (top 2%) isn’t very good?

No. The 4,300 include guys who don't qualify, which is the vast majority of the 4,300. Oso was one of the 4,300 last year; he didn't qualify for any statistical leadership positions.

We have exactly one "sniper," and he is a role player who doesn't get enough PT to get the 2.5 makes necessary to qualify among NCAA leaders. Kam Jones is looking like he can be that, too. And Morsell has a nice shot when he is open and his feet are set. Joplin also has a very nice stroke and has potential.

Also, not sure where he got the #71 rank from.

Official NCAA stats, here:

http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/rankings

Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: User Name #251 on January 16, 2022, 11:15:28 AM
Don’t worry Muggsy. Your creative analogies are much appreciated and understood by most. Keep it up.
Muggsy - your point was a good one that was easily understood. Don’t worry that it went over a few people’s heads.

This is becoming way too easy.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: forgetful on January 16, 2022, 11:16:06 AM

Official NCAA stats, here:

http://web1.ncaa.org/stats/StatsSrv/rankings

Thanks!! I was trying to find the ones on the NCAA, and either I'm not very bright, or they are hard to find the full archived lists (also possible it is both).

Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: StillWarriors on January 16, 2022, 11:40:43 AM
Seems to me the ball comes off the heel of his hand on 3s a lot rather than rolling off his fingers. As a result, at times his release looks more like a push than a smooth release should. This could definitely contribute to being significantly off line and a flatter than desired arc. Clearly in his head now too.  Still love his game and figure the shot will come around.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Uncle Rico on January 16, 2022, 11:45:18 AM
I wouldn’t let him leave the gym until he made 100 3’s in a row
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: We R Final Four on January 16, 2022, 11:52:27 AM
I think his shot looks fine.  Regardless, he isn't going to mess with any mechanics in January.  We just gotta hope that they start to fall, which I blame a combination of speed of the game at this level and confidence.
Agree that now is not the time to change mechanics, and probably correct on the speed of the game at this level, coupled with additional tasks he is being asked to do.
TK has plenty of confidence, and don’t think that is an issue at all.
I disagree that his shot “looks fine”. It doesn’t. It needs to be corrected with more lift and arc, but now is not the time.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: BCHoopster on January 16, 2022, 12:04:00 PM
He has proven to me that he is as good passer in the country on the pick and roll, against SH they have a man mountain down below and Tyler had chances to make layups but he missed them.  Had a bunny layup he totally missed. If MU wants to get to the next level, Kolek needs to score a little as yesterday Prosser, Kuath, Oso, and Kolek scored less then 10 points combine. As I was very lefty dominate point, he needs to work on driving with his right hand once in awhile.  3 years from now he should be really good.  Needs to improve his quickness on D, SH was going right at him yesterday plus get stronger which he will do.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MuggsyB on January 16, 2022, 12:05:28 PM
And I asked a follow up question because I have no idea what a “medieval type arsenal” means in a basketball context.

Fluffy, I really don't know what to say anymore.  I assume you are familiar with medieval weapons and their wide range of uses and capabilities?  Not to mention their badass nature and emphatic results if used properly?  There's nothing further I can elucidate about the subject.  If you cannot comprehend  my analogy or matter of speech what can I do?  I certainly hope you're familiar with zoomability and why I stress it and find it vitally important to future MU rosters.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Galway Eagle on January 16, 2022, 12:54:42 PM
Fluffy, I really don't know what to say anymore.  I assume you are familiar with medieval weapons and there wide range of uses and capabilities?  Not to mention their badass nature and emphatic results if used properly?  There's nothing further I can elucidate about the subject.  If you cannot comprehend  my analogy or matter of speech what can I do?  I certainly hope you're familiar with zoomability and why I stress it and find it vitally important to future MU rosters.

After the pandemic making zoom a lot more popular I don't think the term zoomability has the same connotation it once would have.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: jesmu84 on January 16, 2022, 01:05:38 PM
Fluffy, I really don't know what to say anymore.  I assume you are familiar with medieval weapons and there wide range of uses and capabilities?  Not to mention their badass nature and emphatic results if used properly?  There's nothing further I can elucidate about the subject.  If you cannot comprehend  my analogy or matter of speech what can I do?  I certainly hope you're familiar with zoomability and why I stress it and find it vitally important to future MU rosters.

Would a medieval army beat a modern day equipped army?
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Superfan on January 16, 2022, 01:14:29 PM
From what I’ve seen he has a hard time shooting off the dribble. He’s a much better shooter when he’s catching it off a pass. I think the fact that he’s playing point guard forces him to take too many shots off the dribble.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: willie warrior on January 16, 2022, 01:28:42 PM
Would a medieval army beat a modern day equipped army?
Only if they go to big pots of boiling oil dumped down from the castle wall while under siege.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: forgetful on January 16, 2022, 01:35:27 PM
Would a medieval army beat a modern day equipped army?

Depends on which army better knew the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Herman Cain on January 16, 2022, 01:44:28 PM
I've never coached but is there something you experts see in his J that is causing some of his probs?  My personal take is that this is mostly a confidence issue.  He's shooting 84% from the stripe.  Anyway, in order to reach our ceiling, which I believe is top 4/5 in the BEast, the rebounding and TK's shooting percentage needs to go up.  Kolek does a lot of good things on the floor and we are at our best when he is on his game.  I just feel if he can find his confidence with his jumper this MU team becomes monumentally more difficult to guard. 

Having watched every team in the BEast I honestly don't think there's much of a separation between the assumed top trio and us.  The difference I see is that our margin for error may be smaller with the rebounding issues.  Nevertheless, I do feel we have the overall personnel to be in that top 5 and that our spurtability is among the best in the conference.   If Kolek in particular can just increase his percentages a bit I feel we're even more explosive and a big problem for our competition.  In other words it takes us from bubble to a solid tourney team Imao.
Off Season  is the time for skills improvement . I am sure all the players on the team will be working on specific skills as the coaching staff suggest.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: PGsHeroes32 on January 16, 2022, 02:45:03 PM
I think Kolek will be fine over time.

Im actually less concerned with his outside shot then some of his current misses inside the arc.

When he goes in for lay ups he does a weird "lob" type of shot where he kinda toss it of the back board rather than laying it in frequently. Which has resulted in missing lay ups(had 1 yesterday)


Also yesterday he did a free throw line pull up, where I mentioned in the game thread it was almost as if he shot it thinking he was behind the 3 line. Thats how much force he put into it.

I do think he will be ok over time though. And I absolutely love what he brings overall
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: GoldenEagles03 on January 16, 2022, 03:28:22 PM
I've never coached but is there something you experts see in his J that is causing some of his probs?  My personal take is that this is mostly a confidence issue.  He's shooting 84% from the stripe.  Anyway, in order to reach our ceiling, which I believe is top 4/5 in the BEast, the rebounding and TK's shooting percentage needs to go up.  Kolek does a lot of good things on the floor and we are at our best when he is on his game.  I just feel if he can find his confidence with his jumper this MU team becomes monumentally more difficult to guard. 

Having watched every team in the BEast I honestly don't think there's much of a separation between the assumed top trio and us.  The difference I see is that our margin for error may be smaller with the rebounding issues.  Nevertheless, I do feel we have the overall personnel to be in that top 5 and that our spurtability is among the best in the conference.   If Kolek in particular can just increase his percentages a bit I feel we're even more explosive and a big problem for our competition.  In other words it takes us from bubble to a solid tourney team Imao.

Easy to see why in my opinion. He isn't a shooter, maybe never will be.

He has a set shot rather than a jumpshot and has a weird release with his wrist. He will never be a shooter in the Big East, but still can make us tough to guard if he can hit open shots.

If he gets an open look he should take it and if he can hit the ones that matter it will change things in a major way for this team.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MuggsyB on January 16, 2022, 07:47:12 PM
I think Kolek will be fine over time.

Im actually less concerned with his outside shot then some of his current misses inside the arc.

When he goes in for lay ups he does a weird "lob" type of shot where he kinda toss it of the back board rather than laying it in frequently. Which has resulted in missing lay ups(had 1 yesterday)


Also yesterday he did a free throw line pull up, where I mentioned in the game thread it was almost as if he shot it thinking he was behind the 3 line. Thats how much force he put into it.

I do think he will be ok over time though. And I absolutely love what he brings overall

Very good point.  Do you think his chippie misses are part nerves?
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Disco Hippie on January 16, 2022, 10:26:23 PM
He has proven to me that he is as good passer in the country on the pick and roll, against SH they have a man mountain down below and Tyler had chances to make layups but he missed them.  Had a bunny layup he totally missed. If MU wants to get to the next level, Kolek needs to score a little as yesterday Prosser, Kuath, Oso, and Kolek scored less then 10 points combine. As I was very lefty dominate point, he needs to work on driving with his right hand once in awhile.  3 years from now he should be really good.  Needs to improve his quickness on D, SH was going right at him yesterday plus get stronger which he will do.

Completely agree that Kolek needs to score more.  How that happens doesn't really matter but given his size / position, you'd think most of his scoring will occur from the perimeter.  His outside shot clearly needs improvement which I suspect will come eventually.  As others have mentioned, he's playing at a faster pace now and handling point which is very different than what he's used to so hopefully his outside shot will improve.  He doesn't have to be Diener or Novak esque but he absolutely needs to score more.  While I agree that a PG's primary role is to distribute, Tyler plays way too many minutes to score so little.  I firmly believe that any starting PG at the high-major level needs to average at least 9PPG if not double figures.  I can't think of an elite level team with a starting PG that doesn't.  During the Wilson years, I looked at the stats regularly and while very good defensively, his PPG his last season was half that of every other starting PG in the league.   At the time the starting PG's in the conference all averaged right around 11PPG I think, and Derrick was like 5.2 or something so basically just half of all his peers.   Tyler's PPG as of yesterday is 6.6.   If he could get that avg up another 3.4 points, it would help tremendously.  I went back and looked at Derricks PPG AVG for all 4 years and it was 3, so the good news is Tyler is already more than double that so that's a good sign.   Making 1 more 3pt shot per game will get him very close to that avg. which seems more than doable.  I'm not going to bother looking it up but it would be interesting to see where he stands vs others in terms of total minutes played vs. ppg and what that disparity is.  It wouldn't surprise me if it was among the lowest in conf.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: WarriorFan on January 17, 2022, 08:35:02 AM
Kolek looks to me like he's carrying a leg injury.  Sometimes his shot looks good when he gets his legs into it and gets some lift but lately especially it's all arms and hands.  I recall he had some kind of leg injury early in the season but cannot recall what it was... but it seems to be still bothering. 

With any luck and good coaching he'll make it through the season and get better, and fix/rest it in the offseason while also working on his mechanics a little. 

Helluva PG, definitely not a Derrick... I still predict he'll be more of a Tony Miller. 
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Magnum on January 17, 2022, 09:28:49 AM
Conventional thinking is that you focus on fundamentals in practice and try not to think about it during the game. One interesting in game adjustment that I heard about recently was from Khris Middleton, he apparently has notes on his shot that he reviews at half time when his shot feels off, and he has had some great bounce backs from poor shooting first halfs. Not sure if this is an answer, but I think it’s been effective for Khris.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MU82 on January 17, 2022, 10:12:38 AM
Kolek looks to me like he's carrying a leg injury.  Sometimes his shot looks good when he gets his legs into it and gets some lift but lately especially it's all arms and hands.  I recall he had some kind of leg injury early in the season but cannot recall what it was... but it seems to be still bothering.

Well, Tyler's had a grand total of 3 good-shooting games the entire season ... and I don't think he's been hurt the entire season.

I do think he has gotten worn down during some of the tougher games in which he's played heavy minutes. He also probably has confidence issues because he hasn't seen the ball go through the hoop enough.

But there's also the simple fact that he's never been a great shooter at this level. He was OK playing off the ball last season (.358 from 3, .399 overall), and he has a lot of responsibilities this season.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Viper on January 17, 2022, 10:17:54 AM
I've never coached but is there something you experts see in his J that is causing some of his probs?  My personal take is that this is mostly a confidence issue.  He's shooting 84% from the stripe.  Anyway, in order to reach our ceiling, which I believe is top 4/5 in the BEast, the rebounding and TK's shooting percentage needs to go up.  Kolek does a lot of good things on the floor and we are at our best when he is on his game.  I just feel if he can find his confidence with his jumper this MU team becomes monumentally more difficult to guard. 

Having watched every team in the BEast I honestly don't think there's much of a separation between the assumed top trio and us.  The difference I see is that our margin for error may be smaller with the rebounding issues.  Nevertheless, I do feel we have the overall personnel to be in that top 5 and that our spurtability is among the best in the conference.   If Kolek in particular can just increase his percentages a bit I feel we're even more explosive and a big problem for our competition.  In other words it takes us from bubble to a solid tourney team Imao.
i’ve said it numerous times on Scoop, Kolek’s release is as such that the ball rotation is off. It’s a side-rotation. Therefore he’ll not get the friendly bounce. Sure, he’ll have games from time-to-time where he’s 5/7, 6/8, but not often. Release, hence ball rotation, is critical. A slightly flat shot too, which doesn’t help.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: JakeBarnes on January 17, 2022, 10:39:28 AM
i’ve said it numerous times on Scoop, Kolek’s release is as such that the ball rotation is off. It’s a side-rotation. Therefore he’ll not get the friendly bounce. Sure, he’ll have games from time-to-time where he’s 5/7, 6/8, but not often. Release, hence ball rotation, is critical. A slightly flat shot too, which doesn’t help.

The rotation overall seems to minimal too. Feels like a shot put at times. Because speculative scoop is speculative, some of his flatness and weird rotation could be from pushing it--maybe just a nagging finger/wrist issue? Might also be why there's less spin on the layups, leading to some inconsistency.

 Viper, have you been able to view previous film of him to see if the rotation is different during his GM days? It'd be interesting to see.

Either way, TK's court vision is amazing and he's the epitome of a glue guy that keeps things moving and makes everyone better.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: brewcity77 on January 17, 2022, 10:57:11 AM
Kolek is a very good shooter on the catch and shoot. When he can square up, he's reliable. However, he's a horrible shooter off the dribble, which is where we see many of his misses. He just doesn't have that in his toolbox. I think the key is that his game is all about creating for others, but when he shoots from deep, it needs to be created BY others.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MU82 on January 17, 2022, 03:43:05 PM
Kolek is a very good shooter on the catch and shoot. When he can square up, he's reliable. However, he's a horrible shooter off the dribble, which is where we see many of his misses. He just doesn't have that in his toolbox. I think the key is that his game is all about creating for others, but when he shoots from deep, it needs to be created BY others.

brew, curious if you have numbers for him re catch-and-shoot vs. off-the-dribble.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Jockey on January 17, 2022, 03:48:11 PM
Kolek is a very good shooter on the catch and shoot. When he can square up, he's reliable. However, he's a horrible shooter off the dribble, which is where we see many of his misses. He just doesn't have that in his toolbox. I think the key is that his game is all about creating for others, but when he shoots from deep, it needs to be created BY others.

I also seem to notice his shot is way too flat when he shoots off the dribble - almost like a line drive.

Even off the C&S, his arc is nowhere near that of guys like Kam, Greg, and Justin.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Viper on January 17, 2022, 04:41:44 PM
The rotation overall seems to minimal too. Feels like a shot put at times. Because speculative scoop is speculative, some of his flatness and weird rotation could be from pushing it--maybe just a nagging finger/wrist issue? Might also be why there's less spin on the layups, leading to some inconsistency.

 Viper, have you been able to view previous film of him to see if the rotation is different during his GM days? It'd be interesting to see.

Either way, TK's court vision is amazing and he's the epitome of a glue guy that keeps things moving and makes everyone better.
i do recall a video highlight from when he signed w/Marquette where it seemed his shot did have more rotation than it does now, and his shot was less of a ‘set’. Also wondering if the point guard role has hurt Kolek’s shooting. More tired legs?
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on January 17, 2022, 05:04:05 PM
Tyler is playing now at the highest level against bigger, quicker and more athletic players. Last season his eFG% was 57.4%, 72.2% at the rim, 38.5% for 2 point jumpers and 36.6% from treyland as a two guard. This season his eFG% is 36.7%, 41.0% at the rim, 36.8% for 2 point jumpers and 23.0% from three as the PG.

If you look at his GM videos, the difference in the quality of his defenders is clearly evident. The good news is he is focusing more on efficiency, moving the ball and taking better quality shots. His Orating is 102.2 in conference versus 89.7 for the season. A new league, school and position.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Goose on January 17, 2022, 05:09:51 PM
While I think Kolek is a better shooter than he has shown thus far, I have given up on the big improvement dream for this season. I hope he continues to dish the ball at a high level and Kam gets more open looks. As the season progresses different guys need to step up. The good thing is we have guys that can step up. This is the first MU team  since Buzz that I can say that I have no clear-cut favorite player. Whatever guy(s) step up in a given night are my favorite for the night. It is like my kids; I tell them that whichever one I am with is my favorite at that moment. All are tied at the top, but at any given moment one stands out for that period in time. Yesterday there was a three way tie for leader in the clubhouse at our office.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: willie warrior on January 17, 2022, 06:10:41 PM
Kolek looks to me like he's carrying a leg injury.  Sometimes his shot looks good when he gets his legs into it and gets some lift but lately especially it's all arms and hands.  I recall he had some kind of leg injury early in the season but cannot recall what it was... but it seems to be still bothering. 

With any luck and good coaching he'll make it through the season and get better, and fix/rest it in the offseason while also working on his mechanics a little. 

Helluva PG, definitely not a Derrick... I still predict he'll be more of a Tony Miller.
Got that right, definitely not a Derrick, but Tony Miller is a tall comparison. Does not matter, as long as he is in the game, MU has a chance.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MU82 on January 17, 2022, 06:35:04 PM
While I think Kolek is a better shooter than he has shown thus far, I have given up on the big improvement dream for this season. I hope he continues to dish the ball at a high level and Kam gets more open looks. As the season progresses different guys need to step up. The good thing is we have guys that can step up. This is the first MU team  since Buzz that I can say that I have no clear-cut favorite player. Whatever guy(s) step up in a given night are my favorite for the night. It is like my kids; I tell them that whichever one I am with is my favorite at that moment. All are tied at the top, but at any given moment one stands out for that period in time. Yesterday there was a three way tie for leader in the clubhouse at our office.

Well said, Goose.

On Kam: He sure has a sweet-looking shot. Great arc, release, rotation and follow-through. He's gonna be a big-time player for us once he gains experience and improves his overall game.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Galway Eagle on January 17, 2022, 06:52:53 PM
Well said, Goose.

On Kam: He sure has a sweet-looking shot. Great arc, release, rotation and follow-through. He's gonna be a big-time player for us once he gains experience and improves his overall game.

At least once a game for awhile now I've turned to my fiancé and said "I was so not excited about Kam but I have never been so happy to eat my words!"
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Scoop Snoop on January 17, 2022, 07:37:24 PM
At least once a game for awhile now I've turned to my fiancé and said "I was so not excited about Kam but I have never been so happy to eat my words!"

So when is the Big Day?
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Goose on January 17, 2022, 07:49:47 PM
Galway

IMO Kam has a very high ceiling. His D continues to improve and no worries on him putting it in the hoop.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: rocky_warrior on January 17, 2022, 07:52:11 PM
IMO Kam has a very high ceiling. His D continues to improve and no worries on him putting it in the hoop.

In the past 8 games he has actually developed a decent consciousness on whether he should launch. Before that, there were certainly worries!
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: brewcity77 on January 17, 2022, 07:53:28 PM
brew, curious if you have numbers for him re catch-and-shoot vs. off-the-dribble.

I got the numbers from pux2mex. I was overstating it when I said very good, and these include 2s and 3s, but here are his splits in terms of points per possession:

Catch & Shoot: 36 points on 38 possessions, 0.947 PPP (44th percentile, so average)

Jumper off the Dribble: 7 points on 29 possessions, 0.241 PPP (2nd percentile, so abysmal)
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Goose on January 17, 2022, 07:59:48 PM
Rocky

Shooters should shoot. I had zero worries about his decisions on offensive side of ball. First few games he was trying too hard, but you did not need to be basketball expert to see the kid was born scorer.
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: Galway Eagle on January 17, 2022, 08:23:08 PM
So when is the Big Day?

132 days.

Galway

IMO Kam has a very high ceiling. His D continues to improve and no worries on him putting it in the hoop.

Yeah his D is pretty much what I expected. But his offense is much more polished than I expected for a low 4 star high 3 three star. Can't remember if it was Shaka or if it was Wojo but someone said "Kam's going to score a ton of points at MU" and I rolled my eyes at that. I was definitely wrong there!
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: jesmu84 on January 17, 2022, 08:30:02 PM
Are there any medieval weapons that would help out in this situation? Catapult?
Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MuggsyB on January 17, 2022, 08:50:45 PM
Are there any medieval weapons that would help out in this situation? Catapult?

There very well could be training exercises that would help and perhaps lead to a more relaxed jump shot.    :)

Title: Re: Kolek's Shot
Post by: MU82 on January 17, 2022, 09:38:52 PM
I got the numbers from pux2mex. I was overstating it when I said very good, and these include 2s and 3s, but here are his splits in terms of points per possession:

Catch & Shoot: 36 points on 38 possessions, 0.947 PPP (44th percentile, so average)

Jumper off the Dribble: 7 points on 29 possessions, 0.241 PPP (2nd percentile, so abysmal)

Thanks brew. This is one example of the eye test concluding just about the same thing.