MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on December 06, 2019, 04:48:05 PM

Title: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: tower912 on December 06, 2019, 04:48:05 PM
You can only post things that have disappointed you about Wojo.    Go out of your comfort zone.    See if this leads to meaningful dialogues.


I will start:     Should have played Deonte Burton more.    Should have burned Greg's red shirt last year.    His play this year convinces me more that he was the missing piece last year.     IF the letter happened, he should have kicked both Hausers off the team immediately.    Should have brought in an experienced bench coach earlier.   
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 06, 2019, 04:50:45 PM
Should've benched Markus more against Maryland and against SHU last year
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Boston Warrior on December 06, 2019, 04:57:27 PM
Would like to see a more intense defensive focus...

Would like more paying time risk if we have turnovers....

More halftime adjustments....

A more cohesive set of recruits with a strategy....
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: BrewCity83 on December 06, 2019, 05:00:26 PM
I would like Wojo to post a copy of The Letter on Scoop.

You know, for program transparency.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: mileskishnish72 on December 06, 2019, 05:02:20 PM
He gets hoarse too quickly.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 06, 2019, 05:11:32 PM
His first hire should have been an experienced head coach with a knack for in-game adjustments. He is slowly getting better.

He should have a quicker hook when a starter is playing poorly or, worse, getting down on himself. I am looking at Joey late last season, Markus against Maryland, etc. Mike Deane had his flaws, but he was a solid bench coach and he never hesitated to yank a guy like Hutch of Wardle when they did something he didn't like. And they almost always played better after a good lecture. (And I'm not talking about benching guys; just pulling them after bad or distracted playing and making it clear they need to step up.)



Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: MU62 on December 06, 2019, 05:12:34 PM
What Letter should he post and from whom?   
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Pakuni on December 06, 2019, 05:14:08 PM
1. Poor huddle speeches
2. Insufficiently folksy
3. Shameful lack of Wisconsin natives on the roster

Ok, seriously, my biggest criticism is his seeming inability to consistently make changes or adjustments to his offensive gameplan/system when it's not working.  Far too often we've seen teams go on big runs against MU because we go on a long stretch of bad looks and turnovers, often resulting in easy scores and open looks on the other end.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 06, 2019, 05:32:31 PM
The continued use of the god damn weave offense.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: DJO's Jaw on December 06, 2019, 05:33:52 PM
The continues use of the god damn weave offense.

+1
I already didn’t like the weave the last few years that our offense was good, and I certainly don’t like it any more this year
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 06, 2019, 05:33:58 PM
His first hire should have been an experienced head coach with a knack for in-game adjustments. He is slowly getting better.

He should have a quicker hook when a starter is playing poorly or, worse, getting down on himself. I am looking at Joey late last season, Markus against Maryland, etc. Mike Deane had his flaws, but he was a solid bench coach and he never hesitated to yank a guy like Hutch of Wardle when they did something he didn't like. And they almost always played better after a good lecture. (And I'm not talking about benching guys; just pulling them after bad or distracted playing and making it clear they need to step up.)

  jamaal would probably vehemently disagree while the "hook" was desperately needed more with jh last year despite the "audience" directly behind him. 
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Newsdreams on December 06, 2019, 05:55:05 PM
Doesn't go to Arby's -Fact
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on December 06, 2019, 05:57:09 PM
Doesn't go to Arby's -Fact

Never has been to Real Chili - also a fact
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Its DJOver on December 06, 2019, 05:59:11 PM
Wojo coached teams have consistently (but not always) had problems opening games, and more specifically second half's well.  This had led to us frequently playing from behind, and/or blowing a lead built in the 1st half within the 1st 4 minutes of the second half.  I would like to see Wojo grow in this aspect of coaching.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: WarriorFan on December 06, 2019, 06:21:08 PM
Not enough Paint Touches and Switchables.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: PointWarrior on December 06, 2019, 06:29:25 PM
Based on board history, I believe the proper title for this category is actually “Wojo Slurpers”

Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: brewcity77 on December 06, 2019, 06:36:49 PM
Just going to put out there that a lot of people seem to want Wojo to hire a Rob Judson type. Rob Judson has been on staff for a little over 2 years now.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Cheeks on December 06, 2019, 06:41:57 PM
You can only post things that have disappointed you about Wojo.    Go out of your comfort zone.    See if this leads to meaningful dialogues.


I will start:     Should have played Deonte Burton more.    Should have burned Greg's red shirt last year.    His play this year convinces me more that he was the missing piece last year.     IF the letter happened, he should have kicked both Hausers off the team immediately.    Should have brought in an experienced bench coach earlier.

From day one of hire I believe I said something to the effect of him being at Duke with nothing but great players to mold how good does that make you as a coach to get far talent better?  Risky.  Mixed results so far on that front.

Our lack of great point guards has been a concern.  Easier to recruit, but we have had trouble landing one.

Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: panda on December 06, 2019, 07:01:27 PM
The most wojo slurper move of all is denying the letter ever took place.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: TheyWereCones on December 06, 2019, 07:10:38 PM
I'm good with most things Wojo but I don't like when I feel like the other team out hustles us.  I miss the junkyard dog mentality of the Buzz teams.  We didn't always win but it was always a battle for teams playing Marquette.  I feel like Wojo teams, as a whole, are a lot softer and less intimidating, and have lapses where the other team flat out outworks us.  Bring back the MU toughness.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: panda on December 06, 2019, 07:15:43 PM
Wojo teams are a far cry from the brand built by Buzz and Tc in the 2000’s. Perennial NCAA tournament bids, nails tough teams and NBA level talent. The only thing Wojo has going for him is the perennial, wait until next year crowd because of his high level recruiting ability.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: MU82 on December 06, 2019, 07:18:43 PM
Wojo teams are a far cry from the brand built by Buzz and Tc in the 2000’s. Perennial NCAA tournament bids, nails tough teams and NBA level talent. The only thing Wojo has going for him is the perennial, wait until next year crowd because of his high level recruiting ability.

Congrats for breaking the spirit of the OP. I am pleasantly surprised it took this long for a NoJo to attempt to ruin this thread, though. Almost made it to the second page.

My answer, of course:

Wojo has never done anything wrong. He is the red-cheeked, large-cup-of-water-guzzling,  absolutely perfect coach and human being!
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: oldwarrior81 on December 06, 2019, 07:25:29 PM
as far as coaches sideline drinks go:

Diet Coke > Ice water
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on December 06, 2019, 07:29:48 PM
Our lack of great point guards has been a concern.  Easier to recruit, but we have had trouble landing one.

I see and hear this a lot. It is really a criticism of Wojo’s system then as his system doesn’t really utilize point guards, but combo guards in a pro system. And, I have a hard time criticizing his system as it has delivered some of the best offenses in the country and in MU’s history. It may not be as traditional for your taste.

In fact, Hank was one of the great early pioneers in this offense. Both Butch and Boylan were combo guards in reality and they also subbed in Rosie. Wilson and Doc was the same thing. It was a deviation in philosophy from Al and Hank opened it up more (and his teams scored more). That said, Hank also brought in Worthen and Mandy Johnson to balance. Wojo has brought in Traci and Sy.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: panda on December 06, 2019, 07:34:20 PM
Congrats for breaking the spirit of the OP. I am pleasantly surprised it took this long for a NoJo to attempt to ruin this thread, though. Almost made it to the second page.

My answer, of course:

Wojo has never done anything wrong. He is the red-cheeked, large-cup-of-water-guzzling,  absolutely perfect coach and human being!

Classic slurper. Deflecting legitimate points with pathetic attempts at humor. Mediocrity has been accepted for far too long and I’m not sure how any proud Marquette fan from any era can accept the results from the past 5 years.

This is the year we should be back to expected levels of success. If it doesn’t happen this year, it’s time to move on.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Newsdreams on December 06, 2019, 07:57:58 PM
Never has been to Real Chili - also a fact
Major problem lack of commitment to the MU process
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on December 06, 2019, 07:59:58 PM
as far as coaches sideline drinks go:

Diet Coke > Ice water

Crean was Diet Pepsi though at Marquette so Chilled H2O wins.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: MU82 on December 06, 2019, 08:01:36 PM
Classic slurper. Deflecting legitimate points with pathetic attempts at humor. Mediocrity has been accepted for far too long and I’m not sure how any proud Marquette fan from any era can accept the results from the past 5 years.

This is the year we should be back to expected levels of success. If it doesn’t happen this year, it’s time to move on.

Classic obnoxious mope. The OP specifically asked for ProWojoers, which of course didn't deter you from trying to ruin the thread.

But while I have you ...

What if the administration disagrees with you that it's time to move on after this season? What is your "or else"? You gonna become a UW-Madison Campus fan? A UWM fan? A Seton Hall fan?

If so, see ya!
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on December 06, 2019, 08:02:11 PM
Major problem lack of commitment to the MU process

There is something to be said for some one who hasn’t been in a ditch to ditch oyster cracker war. Band of Brothers, hey?
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Cheeks on December 06, 2019, 08:13:05 PM
I see and hear this a lot. It is really a criticism of Wojo’s system then as his system doesn’t really utilize point guards, but combo guards in a pro system. And, I have a hard time criticizing his system as it has delivered some of the best offenses in the country and in MU’s history. It may not be as traditional for your taste.

In fact, Hank was one of the great early pioneers in this offense. Both Butch and Boylan were combo guards in reality and they also subbed in Rosie. Wilson and Doc was the same thing. It was a deviation in philosophy from Al and Hank opened it up more (and his teams scored more). That said, Hank also brought in Worthen and Mandy Johnson to balance. Wojo has brought in Traci and Sy.

Fair points doc.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Cheeks on December 06, 2019, 08:13:32 PM
Classic slurper. Deflecting legitimate points with pathetic attempts at humor. Mediocrity has been accepted for far too long and I’m not sure how any proud Marquette fan from any era can accept the results from the past 5 years.

This is the year we should be back to expected levels of success. If it doesn’t happen this year, it’s time to move on.

You don’t get this thread, do you?
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: panda on December 06, 2019, 08:13:43 PM
Classic obnoxious mope. The OP specifically asked for ProWojoers, which of course didn't deter you from trying to ruin the thread.

But while I have you ...

What if the administration disagrees with you that it's time to move on after this season? What is your "or else"? You gonna become a UW-Madison Campus fan? A UWM fan? A Seton Hall fan?

If so, see ya!

Nope. Yet another pathetic attempt to deflect. Are you John Dodds? - I know it’s hard for you to wrap your head around this concept, but I truly care about this team and university. I will continue to to support both through thick/thin and hope that Wojo can turn it around. He’s a solid representative of the school/program and I would love for him to build something special here.

Having said that, there’s not much evidence he’s shown that he’s capable of accomplishing anything more than what he has done so far.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: MU82 on December 06, 2019, 08:17:10 PM
Nope. Yet another pathetic attempt to deflect. Are you John Dodds? - I know it’s hard for you to wrap your head around this concept, but I truly care about this team and university. I will continue to to support both through thick/thin and hope that Wojo can turn it around. He’s a solid representative of the school/program and I would love for him to build something special here.

Having said that, there’s not much evidence he’s shown that he’s capable of accomplishing anything more than what he has done so far.

OK. Have a nice evening arguing for the sake of arguing in a thread that wasn't meant for you.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: jesmu84 on December 06, 2019, 08:20:00 PM
Nope. Yet another pathetic attempt to deflect. Are you John Dodds? - I know it’s hard for you to wrap your head around this concept, but I truly care about this team and university. I will continue to to support both through thick/thin and hope that Wojo can turn it around. He’s a solid representative of the school/program and I would love for him to build something special here.

Having said that, there’s not much evidence he’s shown that he’s capable of accomplishing anything more than what he has done so far.

Thanks for trying to ruin what, so far, was a solid thread.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: panda on December 06, 2019, 08:20:11 PM
You don’t get this thread, do you?

I learned it from you - The greatest thread hijacker of them all !
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Cheeks on December 06, 2019, 08:37:18 PM
I learned it from you - The greatest thread hijacker of them all !

The OP specifically stated what was desired....other threads don't, and if they do will abide.   Sorry, this one is totally on you and your actions.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: panda on December 06, 2019, 08:42:38 PM
The OP specifically stated what was desired....other threads don't, and if they do will abide.   Sorry, this one is totally on you and your actions.


Lol - Fair enough. Just be careful Chicos. I’m watching you........

Don’t slip up.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: war1980rior on December 06, 2019, 08:48:43 PM
OK, truth be told, I was a Real Chili's holdout. Made all the way until junior year without going there, but addicted after that.

How has Wojo not gone there after 5 years?

I'm now worried.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: BallBoy on December 06, 2019, 09:06:45 PM
I think I can categorize the Nojos in two camps.
1.  He went to Duke
2.  He isn’t just a little bit off. Al was a little crazy. Buzz was a little crazy. Wojo is not.

That said, I don’t have overall complaints on his ability to coach as he has had good offensive teams and good defensive teams. He has switched his approach to match the team.

My biggest complaint is that he hasn’t recruited a complete team. This years or last years  team are probably the closest to complete teams. This year is balanced but not yet elite and last years struggled with chemistry at the end.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 06, 2019, 09:29:58 PM
Just going to put out there that a lot of people seem to want Wojo to hire a Rob Judson type. Rob Judson has been on staff for a little over 2 years now.


Not sure why you say that. The only comments I can see on that specific issue are Tower's and mine.

Tower said: Should have brought in an experienced bench coach earlier.

I said: His first hire should have been an experienced head coach with a knack for in-game adjustments.

So we both knew, but were critiquing Wojo for not doing it sooner.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: dinger on December 06, 2019, 09:52:17 PM
I think I can categorize the Nojos in two camps.
1.  He went to Duke
2.  He isn’t just a little bit off. Al was a little crazy. Buzz was a little crazy. Wojo is not.


Nope
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 06, 2019, 09:56:27 PM
+1
I already didn’t like the weave the last few years that our offense was good, and I certainly don’t like it any more this year

Do u guys even know why they run the weave?  If u did u prolly wouldnt dislike it so much
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 06, 2019, 09:58:36 PM
Just going to put out there that a lot of people seem to want Wojo to hire a Rob Judson type. Rob Judson has been on staff for a little over 2 years now.
Haha exactly was gonna type the same
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: MUDPT on December 06, 2019, 09:59:22 PM
1. Early on, no clue how to control pace, leading to lots of blowouts at home.
2. Not splitting Howard and Rowsey minutes more when the numbers showed how much better they were with one on the bench.
3. Inability to dig out of early holes (might be getting better?)
4. Lack of motion on offense. Ran those Horns sets so much at the end of the season and allowed JH of all people to facilitate the offense. Haven’t seen it this year. Wish he would have spent the off-season watching Purdue sets.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: WellsstreetWanderer on December 06, 2019, 10:58:02 PM
Doesn't practice inbounding the ball
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 06, 2019, 11:07:31 PM
Doesn't practice inbounding the ball

yes!  gotta have a plan "B', plan "C"...same for a game plan. 
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Shooter Flatch on December 07, 2019, 12:29:16 AM
Teams tend to start out games slow and uninspired.
Has recruited 2 siblings too many.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: GB Warrior on December 07, 2019, 01:11:07 AM
I would like him to punch more whiteboards

I would like to see him go Bobby Cox on the refs of they're bringing bullish!t calls on Theo
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: lawdog77 on December 07, 2019, 06:13:57 AM
Not enough development of bigs, for my liking. In terms of one being able to hit the pick and pop,
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 07, 2019, 07:22:42 AM
His first hire should have been an experienced head coach with a knack for in-game adjustments. He is slowly getting better.



He had Mark Phelps on his staff. Made no difference.

He’s a good recruiter. Mediocre bench coach. Fantastic representative of the university.

If he could get better at the actual coaching I would be satisfied. But I’m not really satisfied at this point.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 07, 2019, 08:49:48 AM

He had Mark Phelps on his staff. Made no difference.

He’s a good recruiter. Mediocre bench coach. Fantastic representative of the university.

If he could get better at the actual coaching I would be satisfied. But I’m not really satisfied at this point.


I said an experienced bench coach with a knack for in-game adjustments. Phelps went a paltry 9-9 in the MVC in his best season as a HC (at Drake). He went 7-11 in each of his other four seasons (total 37-53 in the MVC). Not exactly the stuff of a guy with a knack for adjustments.

I am perfectly fine with a HC from a mid or low major school, but he needed to at least pick a guy who'd had some good seasons at that level.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 07, 2019, 09:00:09 AM

I said an experienced bench coach with a knack for in-game adjustments. Phelps went a paltry 9-9 in the MVC in his best season as a HC (at Drake). He went 7-11 in each of his other four seasons (total 37-53 in the MVC). Not exactly the stuff of a guy with a knack for adjustments.

I am perfectly fine with a HC from a mid or low major school, but he needed to at least pick a guy who'd had some good seasons at that level.

Those kind of coaches are usually employed as head coaches.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 07, 2019, 09:14:51 AM
Those kind of coaches are usually employed as head coaches.


The purpose of the thread was to critique the things we see as Wojo's faults. One of my critiques is that he wasn't able to find one of the few who weren't employed as head coaches.

Difficult? Sure. But we pay him to do difficult things.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2019, 10:14:52 AM
I've made a coupla snarky responses, but I'll now make a serious one (for those scoring at home) ...

++ Hausershima ruined his best season, and he has to get some of the blame. One of a coach's main jobs, in any sport at any level, is managing player-ego-driven situations just like that one. Even if he wasn't primarily responsible (that's a matter of opinion, and everybody has one on this subject), it happened on his watch and he wasn't able to quell it. Can even the most Pro of the ProWojo-ers say he had 0.00% responsibility for what happened?

++ After a couple years of significant improvement, Theo seems to have plateaued or even regressed a little this season. Same could be said of Morrow. I don't want either of them EVER touching the basketball on offense in the last 5 minutes of a close game. Luke also was not better as a senior than he was in prior years. Some of that obviously is on the players themselves, but it's not the greatest look for a coach who is said to be a big-man-game guru.

++ The Henry year, last season and now this season, the offense sometimes has gotten stagnant, with others on the court merely watching the star do his thing.

++ Like others, I wish he would have found a way to get Burton to stick around. Wojo, like all coaches, has players transfer. Most of Wojo's were role players or mid-major (or low-major) players. Burton was an outstanding scorer and powerful presence (although many Scoopers no doubt would have complained non-stop about his poor defense and his effect on the overall team defense). Sam is the only other Wojo-era transfer I will have missed. Joey obviously has talent, but he has since admitted more than once that he was never really wanting to be a Warrior.

++ I really liked Wojo's baseline-inbound plays for several years. This season, however, the Warriors have struggled even inbounding the ball at all several times, let alone getting good scoring opportunities.

++ Talking up the contribution that Froling was going to make. Obviously, Wojo is where Bilas and others got it from. That Froling sucked big-time made me question Wojo's judgment.

Bottom line: I obviously believe that many basketball coaches -- including his predecessor -- are better than Wojo. I simply wonder if Marquette can attract any proven, multiple-NCAA-tournament-winning, non-desperate-retread name or can be lucky/good enough to uncover the next Buzz or Beard.

I'll take Wojo over Howland, Martin and that ilk, and I'll take him over most of the other mid-major/low-major/assistant types that Marquette has hired forever. Right now, there is zero body of evidence suggesting that Shaka would have done one iota better, and we were all hyperventilating when that supposedly was a donedeal.

Thanks for starting a fun thread, tower.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: brewcity77 on December 07, 2019, 10:39:03 AM
My criticisms:

Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: zcg2013 on December 07, 2019, 10:46:02 AM
We haven’t seen a big man make significant offensive improvements in his tenure. The closest might have been Heldt from sophomore to junior year in terms of production but that also was due to minutes increasing.
Had a lot of high hopes for Theo and Ed this year, but so far it’s been disappointing to say the least.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 07, 2019, 02:36:53 PM
The last few posters have a good point about development of bigs. Anyone who saw Theo play as a frosh would expect him to be having a monster year by now. Instead, he spends most of his time on the bench, and struggles when he's on the court.

Frustrating, because I hoped Theo/Ed/Jayce would combine to give us a formidable interior game. Instead, the inside game has killed us.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 07, 2019, 02:55:55 PM

The purpose of the thread was to critique the things we see as Wojo's faults. One of my critiques is that he wasn't able to find one of the few who weren't employed as head coaches.

Difficult? Sure. But we pay him to do difficult things.

Lol. Ok. Whatever.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 07, 2019, 03:02:46 PM
Lol. Ok. Whatever.



Your compelling and eloquent post has led me to rescind my critique. Wojo did a fabulous job picking a bench coach his first season!

Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Pakuni on December 07, 2019, 03:07:46 PM
The last few posters have a good point about development of bigs. Anyone who saw Theo play as a frosh would expect him to be having a monster year by now. Instead, he spends most of his time on the bench, and struggles when he's on the court.

Frustrating, because I hoped Theo/Ed/Jayce would combine to give us a formidable interior game. Instead, the inside game has killed us.

Luke Fischer's eFG% went from .610 his first year to .647 his last. His offensive win share went from 1.2 to 2.7. His ORtg per 100 possessions went from 108.5 to 127.6.
Not massive improvement, but it would be wrong to say there was no development.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: wiscwarrior on December 07, 2019, 03:22:12 PM
Luke Fischer's eFG% went from .610 his first year to .647 his last. His offensive win share went from 1.2 to 2.7. His ORtg per 100 possessions went from 108.5 to 127.6.
Not massive improvement, but it would be wrong to say there was no development.

Also, as I recall Luke's development was hampered by shoulder injuries in each of his off seasons.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Buffalo Gap on December 07, 2019, 03:29:29 PM
He considers chicken a legitimate pizza topping.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Cheeks on December 07, 2019, 03:31:52 PM
My criticisms:

  • Lack of big man development. This stands out because MU has long struggled to develop complete big men & I hoped Wojo would be the fix for that.
  • Propensity to get blasted a couple times a year in marquee games. Maryland, Indiana, St John's, Purdue...I liked when Buzz at least kept the losses competitive.
  • Not finding a way to keep the Hausers and Howard happy. There needed to be changes sooner last year and when you have a top-5 team coming back, it's important to be cognizant of how you keep that together.
  • Lack of March success. Not just in the NCAA tournament, but we've only once played on Friday in the Big East Tourney and never made a final. As much as we covet that NCAA win, programs like Providence & Seton Hall winning Big East Tournaments have been great fanbase boosters.

Buzz got blasted in plenty of big profile games....he kept some close as has Wojo.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: BM1090 on December 07, 2019, 04:34:03 PM
My criticisms:

  • Lack of big man development. This stands out because MU has long struggled to develop complete big men & I hoped Wojo would be the fix for that.
  • Propensity to get blasted a couple times a year in marquee games. Maryland, Indiana, St John's, Purdue...I liked when Buzz at least kept the losses competitive.
  • Not finding a way to keep the Hausers and Howard happy. There needed to be changes sooner last year and when you have a top-5 team coming back, it's important to be cognizant of how you keep that together.
  • Lack of March success. Not just in the NCAA tournament, but we've only once played on Friday in the Big East Tourney and never made a final. As much as we covet that NCAA win, programs like Providence & Seton Hall winning Big East Tournaments have been great fanbase boosters.

Buzz got smoked every year too. Vanderbilt, @ Creighton, @ Florida, @ ND, Dayton.

Just off the top of my head. Agree with your other points.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: bilsu on December 07, 2019, 04:40:00 PM
You can only post things that have disappointed you about Wojo.    Go out of your comfort zone.    See if this leads to meaningful dialogues.


I will start:     Should have played Deonte Burton more.    Should have burned Greg's red shirt last year.    His play this year convinces me more that he was the missing piece last year.     IF the letter happened, he should have kicked both Hausers off the team immediately.    Should have brought in an experienced bench coach earlier.
Might of been as dumb as pulling Junior Cadougan's redshirt.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: drewm88 on December 07, 2019, 04:56:41 PM
Nothing new here, but off the top of my head...

Bigs development
Not managing last year's situation. Even just keeping Sam.
Inability to perform in BET and NCAA
Unforced turnovers. It's either fundamentals or focus. Wojo has responsibility for both.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Pakuni on December 07, 2019, 05:10:00 PM
Buzz got smoked every year too. Vanderbilt, @ Creighton, @ Florida, @ ND, Dayton.

Just off the top of my head. Agree with your other points.

Buzz's last two seasons saw these big game results:
Ohio State 52, MU 35
Creighton 67, MU 49 (1st new BE game on New Year's Eve)
Nova 73, MU 56
Florida 82, MU 49
Louisville 70, MU 50
Syracuse 55, MU 39

I mean, it's not one of the more enduring traits of Wojo's teams, but it's not unique to Wojo's teams either.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 07, 2019, 05:13:12 PM
Buzz's last two seasons saw these big game results:
Ohio State 52, MU 35
Creighton 67, MU 49 (1st new BE game on New Year's Eve)
Nova 73, MU 56
Florida 82, MU 49
Louisville 70, MU 50
Syracuse 55, MU 39

I mean, it's not one of the more enduring traits of Wojo's teams, but it's not unique to Wojo's teams either.


ThAt’S cAuSe BuZz WaS StIcKiNg It To ThE aDmInIsTrAtIoN!!!111!!!
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Cheeks on December 07, 2019, 05:18:06 PM
Nothing new here, but off the top of my head...

Bigs development
Not managing last year's situation. Even just keeping Sam.
Inability to perform in BET and NCAA
Unforced turnovers. It's either fundamentals or focus. Wojo has responsibility for both.

Became a family situation, no way Sam stays when Joey is going.  Jesus H could have been our coach and they were either both staying or both going.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Cheeks on December 07, 2019, 05:18:44 PM
Buzz's last two seasons saw these big game results:
Ohio State 52, MU 35
Creighton 67, MU 49 (1st new BE game on New Year's Eve)
Nova 73, MU 56
Florida 82, MU 49
Louisville 70, MU 50
Syracuse 55, MU 39

I mean, it's not one of the more enduring traits of Wojo's teams, but it's not unique to Wojo's teams either.

Exactly...the memories here continue to be clouded by koolaid or memory loss.  You aren’t even including UNC and other “big profile” games.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: TAMU Eagle on December 07, 2019, 06:56:18 PM
Personally I think his recruiting is overrated by most here. Other than landing Henry by signing Wally, Wojo hadn't landed any top 40 recruits until Dawson (though Markus was top 40 before reclassifying). His 2017-2019 classes were filled with near misses that left the classes pretty average in my opinion. 2020 is off to a great start.

Development of transfers. He got off to a great start with Car3no, Katin, and Rowdy. But the last few, Froling, Morrow, Chartouney were all worse here than they were at their previous stops. McEwen and Johnson have shown flashes this season, and Jayce is injured, but to date they are less than what I was hoping for.

Secondary defensive adjustments. Wojo has always excelled at initial defensive gameplanning. The past two season if you check the box scores, our opponent's best players often have season worst shooting nights against us. But when of those third, fourth, or fifth scoring options gets hot, Wojo usually gambles that they will regress rather than adjusting to them. Sometimes he's right other times we've gotten burned (see Brevin Pritzl and Jermaine Samuels).

Interviews. I support the coach but my goodness he's the blandest interview. Been told he's better 1 on 1 but those post game presses are often drier than unbuttered toast.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Indrid Cold on December 07, 2019, 08:11:46 PM
You can only post things that have disappointed you about Wojo.    Go out of your comfort zone.    See if this leads to meaningful dialogues.


I will start:     Should have played Deonte Burton more.    Should have burned Greg's red shirt last year.    His play this year convinces me more that he was the missing piece last year.     IF the letter happened, he should have kicked both Hausers off the team immediately.    Should have brought in an experienced bench coach earlier.

What experienced (and successful) coach has he brought in? If you're referring to Judson, his resume is underwhelming at best. Look at the impact Phil Martelli has had at Michigan so far this season.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Its DJOver on December 07, 2019, 10:33:10 PM
Wojo coached teams have consistently (but not always) had problems opening games, and more specifically second half's well.  This had led to us frequently playing from behind, and/or blowing a lead built in the 1st half within the 1st 4 minutes of the second half.  I would like to see Wojo grow in this aspect of coaching.

That -12 the first 7 minutes of the second half was no bueno.  Been consistent enough of a problem that it needs to be addressed.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2019, 10:34:36 PM
That -12 the first 7 minutes of the second half was no bueno.  Been consistent enough of a problem that it needs to be addressed.

I'd rather it not happen, also, but even more important to me is how the team responds after it does happen. I like when they respond as they did tonight -- toughness, good D, opportunistic hoops, made FTs.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Its DJOver on December 07, 2019, 10:38:52 PM
I'd rather it not happen, also, but even more important to me is how the team responds after it does happen. I like when they respond as they did tonight -- toughness, good D, opportunistic hoops, made FTs.

I don't disagree, and given the choice between winning the 1st four minutes of a half, or the last 4 minutes, I'll take the latter every time, but following the OP of this thread, this has been a consistent problem of Wojo teams almost from day 1 (of year 2, we never had leads to blow in year 1).
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: seakm4 on December 07, 2019, 10:58:56 PM
He should comment on this thread that the term for wojo backers is

PRO-JO
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: #UnleashDiener on December 07, 2019, 11:11:24 PM
I've made a coupla snarky responses, but I'll now make a serious one (for those scoring at home) ...

++ Hausershima ruined his best season, and he has to get some of the blame. One of a coach's main jobs, in any sport at any level, is managing player-ego-driven situations just like that one. Even if he wasn't primarily responsible (that's a matter of opinion, and everybody has one on this subject), it happened on his watch and he wasn't able to quell it. Can even the most Pro of the ProWojo-ers say he had 0.00% responsibility for what happened?

This was about 99.9% wojos fault. It was completely preventable. But some scoopers have presented some very very stupid conspiracy theories that have almost ran as fact throughout this community.

I have some very first hand knowledge of this and will just say that the hausers were not the first to leave early/transfer due to the exact same concerns. (while Howard had a decent part in their decision the ultimate error was wojo) that's all I'll share about that ever.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2019, 11:46:44 PM
This was about 99.9% wojos fault. It was completely preventable. But some scoopers have presented some very very stupid conspiracy theories that have almost ran as fact throughout this community.

I have some very first hand knowledge of this and will just say that the hausers were not the first to leave early/transfer due to the exact same concerns. (while Howard had a decent part in their decision the ultimate error was wojo) that's all I'll share about that ever.

Sorry, but without you making more information available, I have trouble believing that it was 99.9% Wojo's fault or that "it was completely preventable." I am NOT calling you a liar or anything close to that. Just saying that with the information I have available to me, it's hard for me to agree with your assertion.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: MU82 on December 07, 2019, 11:50:47 PM
Should have burned Greg's red shirt last year.    His play this year convinces me more that he was the missing piece last year.

Maybe ... but when?

Elliott couldn't have played early in the season. By the time he seemingly was starting to get healthy enough, we were in the midst of winning almost every game without him. And then, it would have taken him quite some time to round into game shape.

Maybe he would have been "the missing piece." Or maybe he and Wojo -- and Scoop -- would have regretted it, much the same way many regretted Cadougan not being redshirted.

Finally, maybe Elliott actually wanted to redshirt, especially after quite a bit of time had passed before he was healthy enough. Has he talked about that?
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: CountryRoads on December 07, 2019, 11:55:34 PM


Finally, maybe Elliott actually wanted to redshirt, especially after quite a bit of time had passed before he was healthy enough. Has he talked about that?

Don’t have the source but I recall Wojo addressing this last year and I believe it was Greg’s decision to redshirt.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: TAMU Eagle on December 08, 2019, 12:12:58 AM
This was about 99.9% wojos fault. It was completely preventable. But some scoopers have presented some very very stupid conspiracy theories that have almost ran as fact throughout this community.

I have some very first hand knowledge of this and will just say that the hausers were not the first to leave early/transfer due to the exact same concerns. (while Howard had a decent part in their decision the ultimate error was wojo) that's all I'll share about that ever.

I have very first hand knowledge that says it was 99.9% Joey's fault. I also have very first hand knowledge that says it's 99.9% Dave Hauser's fault. I also have very first hand knowledge that it is 99.9% Howard's fault. I've even had very first hand knowledge that said Sam was mostly to blame. Combine that with your very first hand knowledge and it sounds like there's plenty of blame to go around.

Ultimately, Wojo is the GM so it was his responsibility and he couldn't get it done. But let's not act like everyone involved were selfless saints.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Cheeks on December 08, 2019, 12:32:23 AM
This was about 99.9% wojos fault. It was completely preventable. But some scoopers have presented some very very stupid conspiracy theories that have almost ran as fact throughout this community.

I have some very first hand knowledge of this and will just say that the hausers were not the first to leave early/transfer due to the exact same concerns. (while Howard had a decent part in their decision the ultimate error was wojo) that's all I'll share about that ever.

Give it a rest.  Joey never wanted to be at MU in the first place.  Read his comments about MSU from two weeks ago...said he loves the big campus, football games, and quite frankly good for him to be out of his brother’s shadow.  He’s way more comfortable in his current setting.  Sometimes things are preventable no matter how badly we want them to be.  Relations end all the time.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: BallBoy on December 08, 2019, 10:32:41 AM
This was about 99.9% wojos fault. It was completely preventable. But some scoopers have presented some very very stupid conspiracy theories that have almost ran as fact throughout this community.

I have some very first hand knowledge of this and will just say that the hausers were not the first to leave early/transfer due to the exact same concerns. (while Howard had a decent part in their decision the ultimate error was wojo) that's all I'll share about that ever.

You should be able to tell us the concerns otherwise there is not merit to your claim.

If we look at the transfers
Burton - left due to his personal situation and let’s even say playing time.
Dawson - not high D1 talent and played like it at Liberty.
Henry - Drafted in NBA. Started as a one and done and left as that
Wally - see Henry.
Sandy Cohen - transfer to a place more suited to his talents.
Steve Taylor - foot out the door with Buzz and he didn’t make a move up so went to a lower school
Wilson - Grad transfer because he was behind Markus and Rowsey
Traci - saw his playing time decrease and relative to the talent around him understandable. He went to LaSalle grad transferred to Hartford.
Cheatham - transfer due to family reasons to FGCU. Didn’t get a good run there and then transferred to Nebraska.
Hausers - none of the above seem similar to the above unless the concern is that Wojo is recruiting talent that would cut into there PT and they transferred due to it.

Also note that Transfers have been an issue at MU since at least Crean. Buzz had a stretch we’re he didn’t have a single 4 yr player stay all four years.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 08, 2019, 02:15:07 PM
seems at times, we pass up some good looks/shots only to try to jam a square peg into a round hole and turning it over as opposed to getting a shot.  i don't know if wojo wants a certain amount of time used off the clock, a specific player(s) to shoot from specific areas on the floor, touches??  but the more they try to get the "perfect" shot off, the more chances they have to turn it over. 


 anyone ever try watching your team while flying?  got the ipad on bluetooth, headphones on...ya look up and everyone is looking at you?  my wife dang near broke one of my ribs while i was hootin and hollering with every basket or call.  SWA might have me on a list
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Cheeks on December 08, 2019, 02:36:17 PM
You should be able to tell us the concerns otherwise there is not merit to your claim.

If we look at the transfers
Burton - left due to his personal situation and let’s even say playing time.
Dawson - not high D1 talent and played like it at Liberty.
Henry - Drafted in NBA. Started as a one and done and left as that
Wally - see Henry.
Sandy Cohen - transfer to a place more suited to his talents.
Steve Taylor - foot out the door with Buzz and he didn’t make a move up so went to a lower school
Wilson - Grad transfer because he was behind Markus and Rowsey
Traci - saw his playing time decrease and relative to the talent around him understandable. He went to LaSalle grad transferred to Hartford.
Cheatham - transfer due to family reasons to FGCU. Didn’t get a good run there and then transferred to Nebraska.
Hausers - none of the above seem similar to the above unless the concern is that Wojo is recruiting talent that would cut into there PT and they transferred due to it.

Also note that Transfers have been an issue at MU since at least Crean. Buzz had a stretch we’re he didn’t have a single 4 yr player stay all four years.

Transfers are happening everywhere
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Pakuni on December 08, 2019, 02:59:53 PM
This was about 99.9% wojos fault. It was completely preventable. But some scoopers have presented some very very stupid conspiracy theories that have almost ran as fact throughout this community.

I have some very first hand knowledge of this and will just say that the hausers were not the first to leave early/transfer due to the exact same concerns. (while Howard had a decent part in their decision the ultimate error was wojo) that's all I'll share about that ever.

I was disinclined to believe you until you said your info was very firsthand.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: MU82 on December 08, 2019, 04:42:20 PM
I was disinclined to believe you until you said your info was very firsthand.

Damn straight. A whole lot better than sorta firsthand, and even better than quite firsthand.
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 10, 2019, 06:13:08 AM
well, unless you guys have firsthand knowledge that his knowledge isn't firsthand, ya gotta take jayce' word for it-sounds pretty legit and now enquiring minds got to know...come on man!!  let's have the juice!
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 10, 2019, 08:20:49 AM
This was about 99.9% wojos fault. It was completely preventable. But some scoopers have presented some very very stupid conspiracy theories that have almost ran as fact throughout this community.

I have some very first hand knowledge of this and will just say that the hausers were not the first to leave early/transfer due to the exact same concerns. (while Howard had a decent part in their decision the ultimate error was wojo) that's all I'll share about that ever.

If you say there was no letter then you ought to be banned
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 10, 2019, 08:29:23 AM
If you say there was no letter then you ought to be banned


It was a silent letter....
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: MU82 on December 10, 2019, 08:38:22 AM

It was a silent letter....

Have you noticed that more and more people are pronouncing the "t" in "often"?
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: tower912 on December 10, 2019, 08:41:35 AM
Not very offen. 
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: GooooMarquette on December 10, 2019, 12:44:11 PM
Have you noticed that more and more people are pronouncing the "t" in "often"?


How many silent letters are there in Wojciechowski?
Title: Re: For PROWOJO-ers only
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 10, 2019, 12:56:06 PM
Not very offen.

too effen ofton