Sean
Jop, Stevie, and Oso honorable mentions. If Oso scored a bit more would've been him. Dominant on the boards and defensively. Jop some big time offense down the stretch. Stevie so important in ways that don't show up on a box score.
Gotta be Sean.
CBS feed. Crystal clear 4K all game without interruption
Sean. Really happy for that kid.
Confidence is a big thing - hopefully this flips a switch for him. Don't need 40% from 3 but 30-33% would be outstanding.
Oso ?? He shot like he had money on the Jays.
S Jones. Joplin in conversation 'til dunk celebration.
Sean woke everyone up. Give it to the man
SEAN
Quote from: PointWarrior on December 30, 2023, 03:02:21 PM
Oso ?? He shot like he had money on the Jays.
Great defense + 16 boards?
Sean individually
But 18 offensive boards is a fabulous and unexpected stat from this team. Huge impact why they won.
Oso should win.
16 boards. and 9 offensive.
(sean played flawlessly after his first possesion. But Creighton's gameplan was clearly to let him fire off shots)
I propose in the future an offense and defense stud of the game.
Oso with 16 rebounds is phenomenal for defense.
Sean hit some nice shots for offense.
Quote from: Jockey on December 30, 2023, 03:04:22 PM
Great defense + 16 boards?
Kalkbrenner came in shooting 77% and went 3-7 with
3 total rebounds. Defense is always under appreciated.
Sean Jones
O rebounds impressive. Defense strangling. Shooting meh.
SJ22 opened it up, and played some ferocious D. Really never thought it would happen even just a couple of weeks ago, but Sean's STOG.
Sean Jones
Shawn
Sean was the difference.
Sean.
Honorable men to Oso for his rebounding and D
Special mention to TK - 15, 4, 8 (8 assists would have been much higher had we made some lay ups and 3s in the first half) and the entire team for great effort on D.
Quote from: NCMUFan on December 30, 2023, 03:07:38 PM
I propose in the future an offense and defense stud of the game.
Oso with 16 rebounds is phenomenal for defense.
Agree totally! Need O and D SOTG. Sometimes it will be the same guy, sometimes not.
Sean Jones
His energy in the 1st half was the spark to snap Marquette out of its funk.
Then in the 2nd half he scored 12 points during the key stretch where Marquette outscored Creighton 21-10.
Sean honorable mention to Oso
Great to see Stevie back.....making a couple of big 3s....and drawing a huge charge(?).......l
Sean Jones
Stevie Mitchell finally hit some shots when they really needed him, then Sean Jones and at the end Jop. Defense wins games, but you need to hit open shots as well, they did in the second half. First half was a disaster
Quote from: Jockey on December 30, 2023, 03:04:22 PM
Great defense + 16 boards?
If Oso made half of the bunnies he missed, he'd have been a runaway choice. But once again he made some clutch free throws after Kam's miss.
Sean was great in the second half, but boy he had a rough start. Because of that, I'm going Oso. Locked up Kalkbrenner, dominant on the glass against a good rebounding team. The game was won with defense and he was the key to that.
I think I'm giving Jop another nod. Really good defense, another really good rebounding effort, two huge threes. Sean is a close second.
I came here thinking SJ was the lock, but folks here have me thinking Oso and Jop are valid options.
Good games by Oso and Jop (first dunk at MU), but give it to Jones the younger.
Sean. In addition may be the domino of the game. Rattling in his first three seemed to wake up the offense.
Definitely Sean. Mods- please use the mother/son picture:)
Oso was so dominant on the boards and defense. One of the main reasons we won this game was we killed them on the boards - not a sentence anybody usually says about Marquette - and our defense was excellent most of the game.
Sean Jones was quite the ignitor and did a lot of great things in his 12 minutes of play, but Oso waged war against Kalkbrenner for 35 minutes, and Oso dominated yet another acclaimed center. Those 2 FTs at the end, after Kam had just missed a 1-and-1, were huge as well.
Absolutely no problem if SoG goes to Sean, though. Kolek played well, as usual. Jop did a nice job. When Stevie hit his second 3, I declared victory.
Sean. But if the Jop we've seen the last two games is the one we get moving forward, this team has another level they can reach.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 30, 2023, 02:58:31 PM
Sean
Jop, Stevie, and Oso honorable mentions. If Oso scored a bit more would've been him. Dominant on the boards and defensively. Jop some big time offense down the stretch. Stevie so important in ways that don't show up on a box score.
100% Sean. Jop hit bug shots but immediately gave them back up on the other end. Jop also had some brutal defensive possession helping off Scheirman and giving him open 3s
Jop.
He's back and here to stay. To follow up his stellar Georgetown game with the 2nd half intensity he showed today on D and to be assertive with his shot selection, without the ball sticking, was just what this team needed.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 04:51:07 PM
100% Sean. Jop hit bug shots but immediately gave them back up on the other end. Jop also had some brutal defensive possession helping off Scheirman and giving him open 3s
Yes he had a couple times where his help D left Scheirman wide open, but he also had some possessions where he really disrupted people.
steph jones for his clutch 3's and overall tenacity
very close 2nd steph joplin for an excellent all around game
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on December 30, 2023, 03:47:08 PM
I think I'm giving Jop another nod. Really good defense, another really good rebounding effort, two huge threes. Sean is a close second.
Teal?
Sean.
Said it before, say it again, he is the key to the season.
Excellent defender, drives at will, and if he hits a high percentage of open looks, this team is unstoppable.
Oso played big boy basketball against a top player and won that battle easily. My vote, Oso.
I'd have to go with Sean. Part of what was so impressive was that he came back from a really rough first half and then ignited us to turn the game in our favor. We can't depend on him to do that every night, but man it was beautiful today. Really happy for him.
Sean all the way! He was HUGE in knocking down those threes.
Sean Jones, Steph Jones, Shawn Jones - one of those 3 has to get it.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 04:51:07 PM
100% Sean. Jop hit bug shots but immediately gave them back up on the other end. Jop also had some brutal defensive possession helping off Scheirman and giving him open 3s
As a former dunker yourself, what did you think of Jop's slam?
Jop
Sean Jones. Honorable mention to Stevie. His minutes were impactful, but it was more what his presence allowed for in terms of other lineups. Just immensely important for shaping the rest of the units. I don't think it was a coincidence that Ross' hands and defense felt more impactful.
Gonna say Sean Jones - he ignited the team with smart drives, passes, and 3 three-pointers - in a SINGLE GAME! Outside the missed breakaway layup a great game! It's Sean!
Quote from: panda on December 30, 2023, 05:25:42 PM
As a former dunker yourself, what did you think of Jop's slam?
Highly impressed (9.5 out of 10), and highly worried he was going to biff it and get stuffed by the rim. Bet you slo mo that one and he had about 1 inch of clearance. The 2 second celebration with the fans in the stands behind the basket? 0 out of 10.
Sean Jones. He will not make that dunk mistake again. He was the spark that lit the fire. Strong honorable mention to Oso for a great game playing defense and rebounding.
Wasn't until SJ got going that I through we would win. They needed energy and he delivered. Give it to him!
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 06:03:03 PM
Highly impressed (9.5 out of 10), and highly worried he was going to biff it and get stuffed by the rim. Bet you slo mo that one and he had about 1 inch of clearance. The 2 second celebration with the fans in the stands behind the basket? 0 out of 10.
Shaka was not pleased. It should be pointed out that when Sean Jones blew the layup due to maybe thinking dunk....he immediately responded defensively on the two ensuing possessions. The thing Shaka should say to David is: Jop, SJ is the fastest man in college hoops, and even he had to work to get back involved with play after making a bad decision.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 06:03:03 PM
Highly impressed (9.5 out of 10), and highly worried he was going to biff it and get stuffed by the rim. Bet you slo mo that one and he had about 1 inch of clearance. The 2 second celebration with the fans in the stands behind the basket? 0 out of 10.
Bragging about dunking on a message is wayyy better than high fiving the fans after a real dunk.
Sean
HM -- Oso & Tyler
Shaka - had the game plan that put the guys in position to win.
Oso - for playing amazing Defense, making key FT's and rebounds, rebounds, rebounds. Oh, and no foul trouble.
Sean - The game he's been about to have for a year now he just had. Need more of this from him
but.... Kolek, with the quietest 15 pt, 8 ast, 4 board 3 steal game in history kind of has to be the stud.
Quote from: WarriorFan on December 30, 2023, 06:55:56 PM
Shaka - had the game plan that put the guys in position to win.
Oso - for playing amazing Defense, making key FT's and rebounds, rebounds, rebounds. Oh, and no foul trouble.
Sean - The game he's been about to have for a year now he just had. Need more of this from him
but.... Kolek, with the quietest 15 pt, 8 ast, 4 board 3 steal game in history kind of has to be the stud.
It's almost like we are starting to take TK for granted. He was exactly what you said + excellent on defense.
Jop celebrated the dunk with Jae.
He also had time to get back and chest bump Stevie before Creighton even got the ball down court. His celebration is not what allowed a Creighton basket. Honestly it was just fouling being the worst thing you could do, so MU showed no resistance at all.
Sean Jones
Honorable mentions Oso Tyler Jop
Quote from: wadesworld on December 30, 2023, 07:11:01 PM
Jop celebrated the dunk with Jae.
He also had time to get back and chest bump Stevie before Creighton even got the ball down court. His celebration is not what allowed a Creighton basket. Honestly it was just fouling being the worst thing you could do, so MU showed no resistance at all.
I thought the same thing. Shaka looked pissed at the whole team for parting like the Dead Sea.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 30, 2023, 07:11:01 PM
Jop celebrated the dunk with Jae.
He also had time to get back and chest bump Stevie before Creighton even got the ball down court. His celebration is not what allowed a Creighton basket. Honestly it was just fouling being the worst thing you could do, so MU showed no resistance at all.
Video on Marquette instagram supports this. Jop wagon clearly appears to be back on defense and as prepared as ever before the ball is even in the officials hands underneath the basket.
Yet another point in Jop's column.
To the haters and losers, keep trying but the jop wagon is rollin, rollin, rollin.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 30, 2023, 07:11:01 PM
Jop celebrated the dunk with Jae.
He also had time to get back and chest bump Stevie before Creighton even got the ball down court. His celebration is not what allowed a Creighton basket. Honestly it was just fouling being the worst thing you could do, so MU showed no resistance at all.
Offering absolutely no resistance and an automatic layup was the worst thing he could have done on that possession. And that's what Jop did. But at least it was Jae that he celebrated the dunk with. So. There's that!!
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 07:34:35 PM
Offering absolutely no resistance and an automatic layup was the worst thing he could have done on that possession. And that's what Jop did. But at least it was Jae that he celebrated the dunk with. So. There's that!!
One has nothing to do with the other.
Quote from: panda on December 30, 2023, 07:18:52 PM
Video on Marquette instagram supports this. Jop wagon clearly appears to be back on defense and as prepared as ever before the ball is even in the officials hands underneath the basket.
Yet another point in Jop's column.
To the haters and losers, keep trying but the jop wagon is rollin, rollin, rollin.
I misunderstood Shaka's rage after that bucket. Even thinking Jop messed up, I still have been very much pulling for him. Happy he is turning the corner. Two very solid games in a row.
Quote from: panda on December 30, 2023, 07:37:07 PM
One has nothing to do with the other.
You're right. Jop definitely didn't lose focus in that moment at all. Wonder why Shaka was so pissed off right after giving up that gimme layup?
Easy. TyKo. KPom agrees. Oso was not great offensively and many of his Orebs were his own misses.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 07:40:45 PM
You're right. Jop definitely didn't lose focus in that moment at all. Wonder why Shaka was so pissed off right after giving up that gimme layup?
Jop was back on defense. Go watch the tape.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 07:40:45 PM
You're right. Jop definitely didn't lose focus in that moment at all. Wonder why Shaka was so pissed off right after giving up that gimme layup?
Not sure if he "lost focus" or not, but it's not a great look.
https://x.com/marquettembb/status/1741264979678973981?s=46&t=el-XnIMOEDcxAw3lmg3L5A
Pathetic from Stevie not being in a defensive stance right here
S. Jones 13 mins were Fire!
Quote from: panda on December 30, 2023, 07:57:48 PM
Jop was back on defense. Go watch the tape.
Dude. I know he was back on defense. He was mentally still caught up on his dunk. He was an absolute turn style on that play. Your point makes it worse. He was back, and just let the guy go to the basket with zero resistance. Watch the immediate aftermath, Kolek kind of looked at him like WTF?
Look, Jop hit 2 huge shots and those were clutch. He just got a little carried away in the moment and I have no doubt Shaka will point it out and Jop learns from it.
Jop is the biggest X-factor for this team. If he's good we are really good. But, Sean Jones very well may become the X-Factor. He is a disruptor.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 08:26:40 PM
Dude. I know he was back on defense. He was mentally still caught up on his dunk. He was an absolute turn style on that play. Your point makes it worse. He was back, and just let the guy go to the basket with zero resistance. Watch the immediate aftermath, Kolek kind of looked at him like WTF?
Look, Jop hit 2 huge shots and those were clutch. He just got a little carried away in the moment and I have no doubt Shaka will point it out and Jop learns from it.
Jop is the biggest X-factor for this team. If he's good we are really good. But, Sean Jones very well may become the X-Factor. He is a disruptor.
You a mind reader now too ?
Quote from: panda on December 30, 2023, 08:29:51 PM
You a mind reader now too ?
Do you disagree with my post? Think Jop was locked in on D on that possession? Yes or no?
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 08:42:34 PM
Do you disagree with my post? Think Jop was locked in on D on that possession? Yes or no?
Players make mistakes. I don't believe giving a high five contributed to the mistake in question.
Quote from: panda on December 30, 2023, 08:47:56 PM
Players make mistakes. I don't believe giving a high five contributed to the mistake in question.
I mean...maybe?
Shaka didn't seem to think so. And that makes it a teachable moment regardless.
I will follow up on a previous post, no one should miss a second on TK's play at MU. He is a joy to watch and should not be taken for granted. To be honest, I think too many are taking him for granted and think they are missing out.
Quote from: panda on December 30, 2023, 08:47:56 PM
Players make mistakes. I don't believe giving a high five contributed to the mistake in question.
I agree players make mistakes and I'm a huge fan of letting players play through them (one of the reasons I hated Wojo was his quick hook with most guys).
I don't think Jop's high five was the reason ha man blew by him on the other end, but that's he wasn't locked in still reveling in the play. But all good. We won.
Quote from: Goose on December 30, 2023, 08:54:09 PM
I will follow up on a previous post, no one should miss a second on TK's play at MU. He is a joy to watch and should not be taken for granted. To be honest, I think too many are taking him for granted and think they are missing out.
Yep yep. He does a ton of things that don't show up in a box score.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 08:55:12 PM
I agree players make mistakes and I'm a huge fan of letting players play through them (one of the reasons I hated Wojo was his quick hook with most guys).
I don't think Jop's high five was the reason ha man blew by him on the other end, but that's he wasn't locked in still reveling in the play. But all good. We won.
Oso set a great pick on Jop which didn't help.
Sultan
The more I watch TK the more impressed I am with his play. Hate to say it all of the time, but he is climbing the ladder of all time MU players. He is already second best post Al and in my all time top ten.
It is not often a program has a player that you know will have his number retired while he still has a lot of games still to be played. Other than Wade, I have never been so convinced on a guy's place in program history.
Going to say this until I can't say it anymore, enjoy every second of TK's time at MU. Very likely to never see another player like him. I am sure there will be better prototypical PG in the future, but never another TK.
Quote from: Goose on December 30, 2023, 09:08:26 PM
Sultan
The more I watch TK the more impressed I am with his play. Hate to say it all of the time, but he is climbing the ladder of all time MU players. He is already second best post Al and in my all time top ten.
It is not often a program has a player that you know will have his number retired while he still has a lot of games still to be played. Other than Wade, I have never been so convinced on a guy's place in program history.
Going to say this until I can't say it anymore, enjoy every second of TK's time at MU. Very likely to never see another people like him. I am sure there will be better prototypical PG in the future, but never another TK.
He will be in the NBA for awhile after his time at MU is done so we will get a chance to see him in the future.
Sultan
You may be right, but he is a bonafide superstar as a college player.
Jop's defense has been a bit underrated this year. The guy is working every possession.
Quote from: Goose on December 30, 2023, 08:54:09 PM
I will follow up on a previous post, no one should miss a second on TK's play at MU. He is a joy to watch and should not be taken for granted. To be honest, I think too many are taking him for granted and think they are missing out.
Totally agree. And yet you, like me, said this about who should be SoG ...
Quote from: Goose on December 30, 2023, 05:06:33 PM
Oso played big boy basketball against a top player and won that battle easily. My vote, Oso.
It's OK to pick someone other than Kolek as SoG; doing so doesn't mean one is taking Tyler for granted.
Aside from the TOs, he played quite well today. As he almost always does. And what a comfort it must be for Shaka to know he has a guy who will ALWAYS knock down the clinching FTs.
Hell of a player, and we're so lucky to have him.
But Oso, probably followed by Sean, for SoG.
Tyler as always. So happy for Sean. Will give him the confidence he needs taking that shot. His pesky defense was awesome.
Quote from: MU82 on December 30, 2023, 09:24:32 PM
Totally agree. And yet you, like me, said this about who should be SoG ...
It's OK to pick someone other than Kolek as SoG; doing so doesn't mean one is taking Tyler for granted.
Aside from the TOs, he played quite well today. As he almost always does. And what a comfort it must be for Shaka to know he has a guy who will ALWAYS knock down the clinching FTs.
Hell of a player, and we're so lucky to have him.
But Oso, probably followed by Sean, for SoG.
Oso can't go 2-11 against the upper echelon teans. He was great on the glass but he rushed vs Kalky today.
Sean ! ! ! 8-)
As much as I want to give it to Sean, this is STUD of the game. Not surprise of the game or spark of the game. Stud. Sean was at best our third best player today.
1. Oso - This game was won with defense and rebounding. Oso had 9 offensive boards. NINE. Y'all understand that is second most in program history? 16 total is nothing to sneeze at either, that's tied for ninth most in program history. Not only that, but he turned one of the best big men in the country to a potted plant on offense and the boards. Yes, he had a bad shooting game but there's more to winning than scoring.
2. TKO - Slow first half but a masterful second half. Pretty much every bucket in the second half other than Sean's buckets were engineered by TKO. 15 points (same as Sean), 8 assists (8 more than Sean), 4 rebounds (4 more than Sean) 3 steals (1 more than Sean). Schierman also stopped scoring when Tyler was switched to him.
3. Sean - He was the big spark and the big surprise, happy he had this game and hope it will break him out of his shooting slump, but his 13 minutes doesn't equate to the impact that Oso and TKO had on the game.
Honorable mention to Jopwagon. Very efficient offensive performance. Congrats on his first dunk. Loved his interior defense...but fell asleep on the perimeter multiple times leading to open Creighton threes.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 30, 2023, 11:37:16 PM
As much as I want to give it to Sean, this is STUD of the game. Not surprise of the game or spark of the game. Stud. Sean was at best our third best player today.
1. Oso - This game was won with defense and rebounding. Oso had 9 offensive boards. NINE. Y'all understand that is second most in program history? 16 total is nothing to sneeze at either, that's tied for ninth most in program history. Not only that, but he turned one of the best big men in the country to a potted plant on offense and the boards. Yes, he had a bad shooting game but there's more to winning than scoring.
2. TKO - Slow first half but a masterful second half. Pretty much every bucket in the second half other than Sean's buckets were engineered by TKO. 15 points (same as Sean), 8 assists (8 more than Sean), 4 rebounds (4 more than Sean) 3 steals (1 more than Sean). Schierman also stopped scoring when Tyler was switched to him.
3. Sean - He was the big spark and the big surprise, happy he had this game and hope it will break him out of his shooting slump, but his 13 minutes doesn't equate to the impact that Oso and TKO had on the game.
Honorable mention to Jopwagon. Very efficient offensive performance. Congrats on his first dunk. Loved his interior defense...but fell asleep on the perimeter multiple times leading to open Creighton threes.
Sean Jones was SOTG. 15 points and 2 steals in 13 minutes of action and a 125 O-Rating, not to mention absolutely dominating Creighton's guards while defending. Sean also woke that team up from an awful first half performance with his energy.
Oso? His backtap O "rebounds" were very helpful, and he was active. Kalkbrenner was a non-factor and Oso deserves some credit, yet our perimeter D was so disruptive that Creighton had a hard time getting the ball into Kalkbrenner. Oso's 2 of 11 shooting night wasn't very studly either.
Goose
I completely agree with your comments about TyKo. He is special.
When his playing days are done, I'd love to see him as an assistant coach for Shaka, eventually taking over as HC. Guy's basketball IQ and competitiveness is off the charts.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 11:56:13 PM
Sean Jones was SOTG. 15 points and 2 steals in 13 minutes of action and a 125 O-Rating, not to mention absolutely dominating Creighton's guards while defending. Sean also woke that team up from an awful first half performance with his energy.
Oso? His backtap O "rebounds" were very helpful, and he was active. Kalkbrenner was a non-factor and Oso deserves some credit, yet our perimeter D was so disruptive that Creighton had a hard time getting the ball into Kalkbrenner. Oso's 2 of 11 shooting night wasn't very studly either.
Why are you putting "rebounds" in parantheses? You're not bringing back "easy assists/rebounds" again are you? 2nd most offensive boards in a game in program history. 9th most total rebounds in a game in program history. Both studly numbers and more than make up for a poor shooting night IMHO. And Oso deserves a lot more than "some" credit for negating Kalkbrenner on offense and keeping him off the glass.
As for the rest, you and I have different criteria for "stud" which is fine. Your criteria I would categorize more as being the "spark of the game", he made the most of a smaller amount of playing time. I think Oso and Kolek impacted the game a lot more overall.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 31, 2023, 12:29:27 AM
Why are you putting "rebounds" in parantheses?
Why are you calling quotation marks "parantheses"?
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 31, 2023, 12:29:27 AM
Why are you putting "rebounds" in parantheses? You're not bringing back "easy assists/rebounds" again are you? 2nd most offensive boards in a game in program history. 9th most total rebounds in a game in program history. Both studly numbers and more than make up for a poor shooting night IMHO. And Oso deserves a lot more than "some" credit for negating Kalkbrenner on offense and keeping him off the glass.
As for the rest, you and I have different criteria for "stud" which is fine. Your criteria I would categorize more as being the "spark of the game", he made the most of a smaller amount of playing time. I think Oso and Kolek impacted the game a lot more overall.
Oso was fantastic today and was more aggressive than usual. It's fair game per the rules, but I think the tap out rebounds are at least somewhat controversial from a statistical standpoint. Not a hill I'd die on either way by any means, but it's essentially a loose ball and it's not like they give him a turnover when the other team gets the ball. In any case, hope they keep it up as it's gotten the team a lot of second chances recently.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 31, 2023, 12:29:27 AM
Why are you putting "rebounds" in parantheses? You're not bringing back "easy assists/rebounds" again are you? 2nd most offensive boards in a game in program history. 9th most total rebounds in a game in program history. Both studly numbers and more than make up for a poor shooting night IMHO. And Oso deserves a lot more than "some" credit for negating Kalkbrenner on offense and keeping him off the glass.
As for the rest, you and I have different criteria for "stud" which is fine. Your criteria I would categorize more as being the "spark of the game", he made the most of a smaller amount of playing time. I think Oso and Kolek impacted the game a lot more overall.
I mean if that's how they're scored, that's how they're scored - but a lot of those back taps were 50-50 balls that were secured via the hustle of a teammate
Sean Jones' 13 minutes won Marquette that game.
Full stop.
SOTG: Jae's Slap of Five
Quote from: 1SE on December 31, 2023, 01:47:25 AM
I mean if that's how they're scored, that's how they're scored - but a lot of those back taps were 50-50 balls that were secured via the hustle of a teammate
There is no 50-50 ball or opportunity to hustle without the back taps. They are simply Creighton rebounds, possibly turning into Creighton fast-break baskets.
Quote from: DoctorV on December 31, 2023, 02:22:36 AM
Sean Jones' 13 minutes won Marquette that game.
Full stop.
So if Oso or Kolek gets hurt on the first play and can't return, we still win the game? If Stevie and Joplin go 0-fer on their 3-point attempts in the second half, we still win the game?
Lots of reasons we won the game. Sean certainly was one the big reasons. But it's not the He Came Off The Bench and Surprisingly Hit a Few Threes award.
Though again, Sean would be a perfectly fine choice for SoG, even if he's not my first choice.
Rocky will decide this one next year.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 30, 2023, 11:37:16 PM
As much as I want to give it to Sean, this is STUD of the game. Not surprise of the game or spark of the game. Stud. Sean was at best our third best player today.
1. Oso - This game was won with defense and rebounding. Oso had 9 offensive boards. NINE. Y'all understand that is second most in program history? 16 total is nothing to sneeze at either, that's tied for ninth most in program history. Not only that, but he turned one of the best big men in the country to a potted plant on offense and the boards. Yes, he had a bad shooting game but there's more to winning than scoring.
2. TKO - Slow first half but a masterful second half. Pretty much every bucket in the second half other than Sean's buckets were engineered by TKO. 15 points (same as Sean), 8 assists (8 more than Sean), 4 rebounds (4 more than Sean) 3 steals (1 more than Sean). Schierman also stopped scoring when Tyler was switched to him.
3. Sean - He was the big spark and the big surprise, happy he had this game and hope it will break him out of his shooting slump, but his 13 minutes doesn't equate to the impact that Oso and TKO had on the game.
Honorable mention to Jopwagon. Very efficient offensive performance. Congrats on his first dunk. Loved his interior defense...but fell asleep on the perimeter multiple times leading to open Creighton threes.
TAMU
I'm very much in general agreement with you. I watch games and ask myself who was our most impactful player. It's usually Kolek, sometimes Oso and occasionally Kam. As you say, other's provide spark - but over 40 minutes the big 3 are our keys.
I almost picked Oso yesterday but talked myself out of it due to 2-11 shooting. Could have picked Tyler but talked myself out of it due to 4 TOs. So I picked "The Spark" - Sean. But given more time to think about it, the two guys most responsible for us winning were the usual suspects - Oso and Tyler.
Quote from: CountryRoads on December 31, 2023, 01:34:20 AM
Oso was fantastic today and was more aggressive than usual. It's fair game per the rules, but I think the tap out rebounds are at least somewhat controversial from a statistical standpoint.
I assume the rule re stats is if your own player taps a loose ball off of a missed shot and a teammate secures it the guy who tapped it gets credit for the rebound. If the opposing team comes up with that same ball the player who recovers it gets credit. Arbitrary, but they were big plays nonetheless.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 31, 2023, 08:15:34 AM
I assume the rule re stats is if your own player taps a loose ball off of a missed shot and a teammate secures it the guy who tapped it gets credit for the rebound. If the opposing team comes up with that same ball the player who recovers it gets credit. Arbitrary, but they were big plays nonetheless.
Yep. According to the NCAA stats manual, that's exactly how it is credited.
"An individual rebound (player rebound) is credited to a player who recovers a live ball that has missed scoring a goal (field goal or free throw). The recovery may be accomplished:
(1) By gaining control of the ball.
(2) By tipping or batting the ball in an attempt to score a goal.
(3) By tipping or batting the ball to a teammate so that the teammate or another teammate is the first to gain control.
(4) By retrieving a rebound simultaneously with an opposing player and having his or her own team be the first to be entitled to the ball."
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 31, 2023, 08:21:16 AM
Yep. According to the NCAA stats manual, that's exactly how it is credited.
"An individual rebound (player rebound) is credited to a player who recovers a live ball that has missed scoring a goal (field goal or free throw). The recovery may be accomplished:
(1) By gaining control of the ball.
(2) By tipping or batting the ball in an attempt to score a goal.
(3) By tipping or batting the ball to a teammate so that the teammate or another teammate is the first to gain control.
(4) By retrieving a rebound simultaneously with an opposing player and having his or her own team be the first to be entitled to the ball."
MU won despite hitting their deflections goal. Now I can tell my grandson why he won't be getting his free Taco Bell: Because John Dodds credited those deflections as rebounds.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 31, 2023, 08:21:16 AM
Yep. According to the NCAA stats manual, that's exactly how it is credited.
"An individual rebound (player rebound) is credited to a player who recovers a live ball that has missed scoring a goal (field goal or free throw). The recovery may be accomplished:
(1) By gaining control of the ball.
(2) By tipping or batting the ball in an attempt to score a goal.
(3) By tipping or batting the ball to a teammate so that the teammate or another teammate is the first to gain control.
(4) By retrieving a rebound simultaneously with an opposing player and having his or her own team be the first to be entitled to the ball."
Re: #4 - two guys (on different teams) get a rebound simultaneously. Tie-up, "jump ball." So one player gets credit for a rebound because his team has the arrow?
Sean led the turmoil defense that broke Creighton us momentum.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 30, 2023, 08:26:40 PM
Dude. I know he was back on defense. He was mentally still caught up on his dunk. He was an absolute turn style on that play. Your point makes it worse. He was back, and just let the guy go to the basket with zero resistance. Watch the immediate aftermath, Kolek kind of looked at him like WTF?
Look, Jop hit 2 huge shots and those were clutch. He just got a little carried away in the moment and I have no doubt Shaka will point it out and Jop learns from it.
Jop is the biggest X-factor for this team. If he's good we are really good. But, Sean Jones very well may become the X-Factor. He is a disruptor.
This is why I chose Jop. To me the SOTG is the X factor or someone that plays a level above their norm. Of course, Tyler can be chosen every game, but I prefer to give my nod to the difference maker. Also, pretty sure Shaka yelled "wtf are you thinking" to Jop after the ole defense as he walked to the time out huddle. Loved the celebration w Jae, did not love that he had a mental lapse. Jop, still my choice.
Please see attached.
Unfathomably poor court awareness from oso as he's obstructing Jop's movement while kalkbrenner is 45 feet from the basket.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 31, 2023, 12:29:27 AM
Why are you putting "rebounds" in parantheses? You're not bringing back "easy assists/rebounds" again are you? 2nd most offensive boards in a game in program history. 9th most total rebounds in a game in program history. Both studly numbers and more than make up for a poor shooting night IMHO. And Oso deserves a lot more than "some" credit for negating Kalkbrenner on offense and keeping him off the glass.
As for the rest, you and I have different criteria for "stud" which is fine. Your criteria I would categorize more as being the "spark of the game", he made the most of a smaller amount of playing time. I think Oso and Kolek impacted the game a lot more overall.
Yes, I'm not going to value back tap "rebounds" the same as physically securing the ball personally, as at best it's maybe a 65/35 odds the backtap will be corraled by our team. And yes, there are easy assists in basketball and Derrick Wilson was the epitome of highlighting the concept of easy assists (doing nothing to create a good look, but getting an assist by virtue of executing a 5th grade basketball level chest pass to a teammate who makes the basket), versus the kind you see Tyler Kolek make for this team.
We can argue all day long about would we have won this game if Oso didn't play or Sean didn't play - the answer would be no in both cases. However, takeaway Sean Jones performance today and we are absolutely boatraced even with Oso playing.
I think people are overrating Oso's defense from yesterday. Sure, he played good defense but his teammates gave him great support.
The ball pressure from all 5 guards was swarming. They made entry passes very difficult. They cut off driving lanes, which allowed Oso to stay home on Kalk. And did a great job timing their double teams.
So while Oso played well on defense, I really view the team defense as the star.
Lenny
Sean and Joplin played a big role in the game and they were needed big time. That said, no TK or Oso and their performances would have been in a loss. Not to diminish what they did, but a number of guys could have provided that spark if given a chance. A number of guys were not replacing TK and Oso yesterday.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 31, 2023, 11:20:41 AM
Yes, I'm not going to value back tap "rebounds" the same as physically securing the ball personally, as at best it's maybe a 65/35 odds the backtap will be corraled by our team. And yes, there are easy assists in basketball and Derrick Wilson was the epitome of highlighting the concept of easy assists (doing nothing to create a good look, but getting an assist by virtue of executing a 5th grade basketball level chest pass to a teammate who makes the basket), versus the kind you see Tyler Kolek make for this team.
We can argue all day long about would we have won this game if Oso didn't play or Sean didn't play - the answer would be no in both cases. However, takeaway Sean Jones performance today and we are absolutely boatraced even with Oso playing.
You realize that a back tap is only counted as a rebound if a Marquette player controls it right?
Quote from: Goose on December 31, 2023, 11:42:06 AM
Lenny
Sean and Joplin played a big role in the game and they were needed big time. That said, no TK or Oso and their performances would have been in a loss. Not to diminish what they did, but a number of guys could have provided that spark if given a chance. A number of guys were not replacing TK and Oso yesterday.
I mean you can pretty much say that about everyone yesterday. Which is why the same was so satisfying.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on December 31, 2023, 11:48:58 AM
You realize that a back tap is only counted as a rebound if a Marquette player controls it right?
Of course. The back tap is probably our team's best offensive rebounding strategy, yet my point was it's probably a 65/35 maybe 70/30 at absolute best odds to control the rebound.
So, our hope is that we can corral the backtap and it has been said hope isn't a strategy...but due to our team being undersized it is our best strategy, and Oso did a great job yesterday on the back taps. Will be interesting to see if going forward this is how Oso is instructed to pursue going after offensive rebounds.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 31, 2023, 12:37:10 PM
Of course. The back tap is probably our team's best offensive rebounding strategy, yet my point was it's probably a 65/35 maybe 70/30 at absolute best odds to control the rebound.
So, our hope is that we can corral the backtap and it has been said hope isn't a strategy...but due to our team being undersized it is our best strategy, and Oso did a great job yesterday on the back taps. Will be interesting to see if going forward this is how Oso is instructed to pursue going after offensive rebounds.
So I guess if Oso can swat the ball, but not actually gain control of it, better to just back off and let the opposing player have it.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on December 31, 2023, 10:36:12 AM
This is why I chose Jop. To me the SOTG is the X factor or someone that plays a level above their norm. Of course, Tyler can be chosen every game, but I prefer to give my nod to the difference maker. Also, pretty sure Shaka yelled "wtf are you thinking" to Jop after the ole defense as he walked to the time out huddle. Loved the celebration w Jae, did not love that he had a mental lapse. Jop, still my choice.
I always appreciate your positive and optimistic takes, 21J. However, the stud is the stud. If it were the X-factor award, it would be the XFoG. If it were the guy who plays above his norm award, it would be the GWPAHNoG.
Given how the game unfolded, I can understand why some here are choosing Sean. Maybe rocky will even choose him. But one can argue pretty easily that he wasn't the Stud of the Game.
Oso and Kolek battled for 35+ minutes each and profoundly affected that game with what they provided. Pretty studly.
Quote from: warriorchick on December 31, 2023, 01:15:33 PM
So I guess if Oso can swat the ball, but not actually gain control of it, better to just back off and let the opposing player have it.
How did you arrive at this conclusion from my post?
Sean
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 31, 2023, 11:20:41 AM
Yes, I'm not going to value back tap "rebounds" the same as physically securing the ball personally, as at best it's maybe a 65/35 odds the backtap will be corraled by our team.
So they are rebounds, not "rebounds", yes? And they only count if he taps them to a teammate. Watch the game again, Oso isn't swatting and praying that it goes to a teammate. Most of those are intentional hits to open players. Several of which gave us a wide open three attempt or allowed us to initiate the offense while the defense was still scrambling. Could be argued that those are more valuable when successful. Either way, it's a rebound and has always been a rebound.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on December 31, 2023, 11:20:41 AM
However, takeaway Sean Jones performance today and we are absolutely boatraced even with Oso playing.
In the first half, Sean checked in and we were down 9. When he checked out, we were down 9.
In the second half, Sean checked in when we were down 1. And when he went out, we were winning by 4. He helped us extend the lead by 5. Which is great! But I don't see the math for "we get absolutely boatraced" without him. I don't know if we win without Sean yesterday. I think it would have been closer for sure. But I think a lack of Oso or a lack of Tyler would have been more likely to lead to a boatracing, just given how unique and difficult to replace they are.
Sean had the best 8 minutes (he played 5 minutes in the first, 8 in the second) of anyone on the floor yesterday. It was such a good eight minutes, that I think he was a third most impactful player. But there's only so much impact you can have when you play in less than a third of the game. On a per minute basis, Sean was the best player. That's not how I judge SOTG (which again, is a meaningless award argued about by internet dweebs and chose by a moderator who probably won't remember to decide until 5 minutes before the next game). Internet dweebs are allowed to have different criteria.
Quote from: Goose on December 31, 2023, 11:42:06 AM
Lenny
Sean and Joplin played a big role in the game and they were needed big time. That said, no TK or Oso and their performances would have been in a loss. Not to diminish what they did, but a number of guys could have provided that spark if given a chance. A number of guys were not replacing TK and Oso yesterday.
Yep. They are the straws that stir the drink.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 31, 2023, 03:06:47 PM
So they are rebounds, not "rebounds", yes? And they only count if he taps them to a teammate. Watch the game again, Oso isn't swatting and praying that it goes to a teammate. Most of those are intentional hits to open players. Several of which gave us a wide open three attempt or allowed us to initiate the offense while the defense was still scrambling. Could be argued that those are more valuable when successful. Either way, it's a rebound and has always been a rebound.
In the first half, Sean checked in and we were down 9. When he checked out, we were down 9.
In the second half, Sean checked in when we were down 1. And when he went out, we were winning by 4. He helped us extend the lead by 5. Which is great! But I don't see the math for "we get absolutely boatraced" without him. I don't know if we win without Sean yesterday. I think it would have been closer for sure. But I think a lack of Oso or a lack of Tyler would have been more likely to lead to a boatracing, just given how unique and difficult to replace they are.
Sean had the best 8 minutes (he played 5 minutes in the first, 8 in the second) of anyone on the floor yesterday. It was such a good eight minutes, that I think he was a third most impactful player. But there's only so much impact you can have when you play in less than a third of the game. On a per minute basis, Sean was the best player. That's not how I judge SOTG (which again, is a meaningless award argued about by internet dweebs and chose by a moderator who probably won't remember to decide until 5 minutes before the next game). Internet dweebs are allowed to have different criteria.
Good facts, you dweeb!
Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on December 31, 2023, 11:39:26 AM
I think people are overrating Oso's defense from yesterday. Sure, he played good defense but his teammates gave him great support.
The ball pressure from all 5 guards was swarming. They made entry passes very difficult. They cut off driving lanes, which allowed Oso to stay home on Kalk. And did a great job timing their double teams.
So while Oso played well on defense, I really view the team defense as the star.
The team defense was great. But Oso was certainly not just sitting down low banging with Kalk while the guards did the perimeter work. Oso is constantly switching onto guards, and he keeps them out on the perimeter and pressures them so they can't take advantage of the mismatch down low, not letting the guard make the entry pass or blow by him.
For my money, he might be the best all around defensive players I've seen all year in college basketball.
"The 18 offensive rebounds, including nine from Oso, was absolutely the difference in the game." - Shaka Smart
Meh ... what does he know?
Quote from: wadesworld on December 31, 2023, 10:50:26 PM
The team defense was great. But Oso was certainly not just sitting down low banging with Kalk while the guards did the perimeter work. Oso is constantly switching onto guards, and he keeps them out on the perimeter and pressures them so they can't take advantage of the mismatch down low, not letting the guard make the entry pass or blow by him.
For my money, he might be the best all around defensive players I've seen all year in college basketball.
Oso is our best, and most important, defender overall. But on Saturday, I thought he was merely our 4th best defender. Chase, Tyler, and Sean were super disruptive. Oso's defense was good, just not as good as the others IMO.
Quote from: MU82 on January 01, 2024, 09:16:50 AM
"The 18 offensive rebounds, including nine from Oso, was absolutely the difference in the game." - Shaka Smart
Meh ... what does he know?
You think Shaka will award Oso "Domino of the game?" I'll wager it goes to Sean. You want Oso? $50 to charity of winners choice.
Quote from: MU82 on January 01, 2024, 09:16:50 AM
"The 18 offensive rebounds, including nine from Oso, was absolutely the difference in the game." - Shaka Smart
Meh ... what does he know?
The easy variety.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 01, 2024, 11:50:40 AM
You think Shaka will award Oso "Domino of the game?" I'll wager it goes to Sean. You want Oso? $50 to charity of winners choice.
1. The criteria for Shaka's Domino of the Game might be different than Scoop's Stud of the Game.
2. This debate has reached epic levels of silliness.
Quote from: jfp61 on December 30, 2023, 03:07:26 PM
Oso should win.
16 boards. and 9 offensive.
(sean played flawlessly after his first possesion. But Creighton's gameplan was clearly to let him fire off shots)
If Oso boards like that more often than not rest of the way the boys are in fantastic shape.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 01, 2024, 11:50:40 AM
You think Shaka will award Oso "Domino of the game?" I'll wager it goes to Sean. You want Oso? $50 to charity of winners choice.
I don't bet on dopey things.
"The 18 offensive rebounds, including nine from Oso, was absolutely the difference in the game." - Shaka Smart
Shaka also lumped Sean's 3s in with Stevie's 3s as being important contributions.
Quote from: MU82 on January 01, 2024, 01:37:02 PM
I don't bet on dopey things.
"The 18 offensive rebounds, including nine from Oso, was absolutely the difference in the game." - Shaka Smart
Shaka also lumped Sean's 3s in with Stevie's 3s as being important contributions.
Good judgement because Shaka did give Sean Domino of the game (His MVP), and he also gave him the EGB award too.
But no doubt Scoop MVP should carry more weight than Shaka's.
Quote from: The Sultan of Semantics on January 01, 2024, 01:22:26 PM
1. The criteria for Shaka's Domino of the Game might be different than Scoop's Stud of the Game.
2. This debate has reached epic levels of silliness.
Quote from: MU82 on January 01, 2024, 01:37:02 PM
"The 18 offensive rebounds, including nine from Oso, was absolutely the difference in the game." - Shaka Smart
Quote from: MU82 on January 01, 2024, 07:16:22 PM
And yet Shaka sent Sean out for the presser as Tyler was busy with Goody on The Field of 68.
#kpom
Maybe Shaka wanted to give somebody other than Kolek and Oso a chance to talk to the media.
Look, as I said numerous times, Sean would be a fine choice. He wouldn't be my choice, but he would be A-OK by me.
I can't believe folks (including me) are spending so much time debating something that means so little.
Wait ... what am I saying? I'm not new here, so I certainly can believe it. We're still having debates about Crean, Dawson, the Ellensons, the Hausers and Wojo, for crissakes.
Quote from: MU82 on January 01, 2024, 08:23:46 PM
Maybe Shaka wanted to give somebody other than Kolek and Oso a chance to talk to the media.
Look, as I said numerous times, Sean would be a fine choice. He wouldn't be my choice, but he would be A-OK by me.
I can't believe folks (including me) are spending so much time debating something that means so little.
Wait ... what am I saying? I'm not new here, so I certainly can believe it. We're still having debates about Crean, Dawson, the Ellensons, the Hausers and Wojo, for crissakes.
And Porter Moser!
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 01, 2024, 04:11:47 PM
Good judgement because Shaka did give Sean Domino of the game (His MVP), and he also gave him the EGB award too.
But no doubt Scoop MVP should carry more weight than Shaka's.
The domino of the game is not an MVP award. It's an award given to the player who made his teammates better that game. You know, one domino falling leads to another domino falling. It's more akin to a "spark of the game" award.
And I'll say this for the third or fourth time this thread. It is okay if some internet dweebs have differing opinions about this fake award.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 31, 2023, 03:06:47 PM
Sean had the best 8 minutes (he played 5 minutes in the first, 8 in the second) of anyone on the floor yesterday. It was such a good eight minutes, that I think he was a third most impactful player. But there's only so much impact you can have when you play in less than a third of the game. On a per minute basis, Sean was the best player. That's not how I judge SOTG (which again, is a meaningless award argued about by internet dweebs and chose by a moderator who probably won't remember to decide until 5 minutes before the next game). Internet dweebs are allowed to have different criteria.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 01, 2024, 10:30:38 PM
And I'll say this for the third or fourth time this thread. It is okay if some internet dweebs have differing opinions about this fake award.
BANHAMMER!
Sad.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 01, 2024, 04:11:47 PM
Good judgement because Shaka did give Sean Domino of the game (His MVP), and he also gave him the EGB award too.
Have you coached? Coaches prop up role players whenever they have the opportunity, figuring that the stars always get plenty of accolades.
And as TAMU said, Domino of the game is not MVP.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 31, 2023, 03:06:47 PM
a moderator who probably won't remember to decide until 5 minutes before the next game
Hey now! I've legit forgot a few times :)
This one, I decided immediately after the game. I just like to let you guys argue about it for a few days!
I agree with those that say Sean. My eyes told me we won the game because of him. I don't normally pay too much attention to torvik's BPM or NET but for this particular game it's clear we were outplayed when he was off the court, and won when he was on the court (BPM +34.7!!, NET +7). I don't disagree with anyone that says other players were important to this win with defense or otherwise, but my eyes told me we won with Sean, and probably lose without him.
Meaningless Stud :)
I want my money back.
Quote from: tower912 on January 02, 2024, 11:20:14 AM
I want my money back.
I only give refunds if you go back and edit all your posts to "NM"
Also, just realized I messed up and never put stats up for Jop's SOTG. I owe him a refund.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 02, 2024, 11:19:10 AM
Hey now! I've legit forgot a few times :)
This one, I decided immediately after the game. I just like to let you guys argue about it for a few days!
I agree with those that say Sean. My eyes told me we won the game because of him. I don't normally pay too much attention to torvik's BPM or NET but for this particular game it's clear we were outplayed when he was off the court, and won when he was on the court (BPM +34.7!!, NET +7). I don't disagree with anyone that says other players were important to this win with defense or otherwise, but my eyes told me we won with Sean, and probably lose without him.
Meaningless Stud :)
Just rewatching the 2nd half - his energy when he comes in at 13:00 is incredible - shortly after we take our first lead of the game. Both spark and stud.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 01, 2024, 10:30:38 PM
The domino of the game is not an MVP award. It's an award given to the player who made his teammates better that game. You know, one domino falling leads to another domino falling. It's more akin to a "spark of the game" award.
And I'll say this for the third or fourth time this thread. It is okay if some internet dweebs have differing opinions about this fake award.
Who ever said it wasn't okay for internet dweebs to have differing opinions about SOTG? You're welcome to have a differing opinion and think Oso was SOTG for the Creighton game. Scoop is an opinion exchange.
Are you sure the Domino of the game from Shaka is the "Spark of the game award?" If so its weird that he's awarded it to:
Sean against Creighton
Joplin against Georgetwon (leading scorer and KenPom MVP)
Oso against St. Thomas (leading scorer and KenPom MVP)
Oso against Notre Dame (leading scorer)
Kolek against Texas (leading scorer and Ken Pom MVP)
Kolek against Southern (leading scorer and Ken Pom MVP)
Quote from: MU82 on January 02, 2024, 08:33:45 AM
Have you coached? Coaches prop up role players whenever they have the opportunity, figuring that the stars always get plenty of accolades.
And as TAMU said, Domino of the game is not MVP.
Yes, I've coached. And see the above post. Pretty odd that Shaka's Dominos of the Game are usually the leading scorer AND/or Ken Pom MVP.
TAMU trying to assert Domino of the game is "Spark of the Game" is as absurd as his belief Wojo was the goods as a coach, because Jay Wright didn't win immediately.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 02, 2024, 11:19:10 AM
Hey now! I've legit forgot a few times :)
Gave up the bong for New Year's?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 02, 2024, 11:43:57 AM
Gave up the bong for New Year's?
Clearly not as Sean is listed as the 'Stud of the G-town game' on my screen.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 02, 2024, 11:46:36 AM
Clearly not as Sean is listed as the 'Stud of the G-town game' on my screen.
Ah hell.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 02, 2024, 11:46:36 AM
Clearly not as Sean is listed as the 'Stud of the G-town game' on my screen.
Jop deserves a double refund plus punitive damages.
Not picking a side in this fight because I really don't know Shaka's intent with these awards, but I do note that in addition to the "Domino of the Game" award, he has a "EGB Champion" award. If the Domino is the "spark of the game" award, what do you think the EGB Champ is for?
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 02, 2024, 11:40:24 AM
Who ever said it wasn't okay for internet dweebs to have differing opinions about SOTG? You're welcome to have a differing opinion and think Oso was SOTG for the Creighton game. Scoop is an opinion exchange.
Notice how everyone else in this thread (and every other SOTG thread) just posted their picks and left it at that? You on the other hand started quoting people who didnt agree with you, telling them why they were wrong, and stating your opinion as fact.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 02, 2024, 11:40:24 AM
Are you sure the Domino of the game from Shaka is the "Spark of the game award?" If so its weird that he's awarded it to:
Sean against Creighton
Joplin against Georgetwon (leading scorer and KenPom MVP)
Oso against St. Thomas (leading scorer and KenPom MVP)
Oso against Notre Dame (leading scorer)
Kolek against Texas (leading scorer and Ken Pom MVP)
Kolek against Southern (leading scorer and Ken Pom MVP)
Shaka has explained what a domino is many times, its a key tenet of his culture. If you want to read up https://apnews.com/article/sports-march-madness-mens-college-basketball-college-basketball-shaka-smart-31d563760753b839f510b47ddd6abcf5
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 02, 2024, 11:43:05 AM
TAMU trying to assert Domino of the game is "Spark of the Game" is as absurd as his belief Wojo was the goods as a coach, because Jay Wright didn't win immediately.
You won't find one post where i call Wojo the goods or anything similar or make any sort of argument that because Jay Wright didn't win immediately that meant that Wojo was good.
I welcome you to find a source where Shaka refers to domino of the game award as his mvp award. If you do, I'll gladly admit I was wrong. I can find you dozens of sources about what Shakas definition of a domino is. Presumably he doesn't change the definition for the domino of the game award
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 02, 2024, 12:04:10 PM
Not picking a side in this fight because I really don't know Shaka's intent with these awards, but I do note that in addition to the "Domino of the Game" award, he has a "EGB Champion" award. If the Domino is the "spark of the game" award, what do you think the EGB Champ is for?
Domino is for play in game. EGB is for out of game behavior (ie cheering a teammate, slapping the floor, celebrating when appropriate)
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 02, 2024, 12:14:23 PM
Notice how everyone else in this thread (and every other SOTG thread) just posted their picks and left it at that? You on the other hand started quoting people who didnt agree with you, telling them why they were wrong, and stating your opinion as fact.
Shaka has explained what a domino is many times, its a key tenet of his culture. If you want to read up https://apnews.com/article/sports-march-madness-mens-college-basketball-college-basketball-shaka-smart-31d563760753b839f510b47ddd6abcf5
You won't find one post where i call Wojo the goods or anything similar or make any sort of argument that because Jay Wright didn't win immediately that meant that Wojo was good.
I welcome you to find a source where Shaka refers to domino of the game award as his mvp award. If you do, I'll gladly admit I was wrong. I can find you dozens of sources about what Shakas definition of a domino is. Presumably he doesn't change the definition for the domino of the game award
Ners always needs to "win," so he will die on every hill he climbs. And if the facts go against him, he always tries to end the debate with "Oh yeah ... you thought Wojo was the best coach ever," even if Wojo had nothing to do with the discussion.
Which I guess is fair in its own Scoopy way, since many of us so enjoy poking fun at him for claiming that Magic Dawson was better than Rowsey and for believing that dunking in high school gives a person a big basketball brain.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 02, 2024, 12:16:37 PM
Domino is for play in game. EGB is for out of game behavior (ie cheering a teammate, slapping the floor, celebrating when appropriate)
Thanks.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 02, 2024, 12:14:23 PM
Notice how everyone else in this thread (and every other SOTG thread) just posted their picks and left it at that? You on the other hand started quoting people who didnt agree with you, telling them why they were wrong, and stating your opinion as fact.
Shaka has explained what a domino is many times, its a key tenet of his culture. If you want to read up https://apnews.com/article/sports-march-madness-mens-college-basketball-college-basketball-shaka-smart-31d563760753b839f510b47ddd6abcf5
You won't find one post where i call Wojo the goods or anything similar or make any sort of argument that because Jay Wright didn't win immediately that meant that Wojo was good.
I welcome you to find a source where Shaka refers to domino of the game award as his mvp award. If you do, I'll gladly admit I was wrong. I can find you dozens of sources about what Shakas definition of a domino is. Presumably he doesn't change the definition for the domino of the game award
New Scoop Rules per TAMU:
No quoting of other's posts shall be allowed in the SOTG threads (which btw I quoted Wades and agreed with his selection of Sean as SOTG)
EGB's are only "out of game behavior." WTAF? Does TAMU really believe Energy Generating Behaviors are restricted to those on the bench and that no player in the game can actually be perform Energy Generating Behavior? Like Shaka says - Hey guys on the floor - I don't want you to dive for loose balls, or "celebrate appropriately," or slap the floor - I need you to be robots and flat throughout the game."
Domino of the game is: "Spark of the game" despite Shaka awarding it to the high scorer and/or Ken Pom MVP every game.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 02, 2024, 12:16:37 PM
Domino is for play in game. EGB is for out of game behavior (ie cheering a teammate, slapping the floor, celebrating when appropriate)
Not always. In fact, passing the basketball in game has been called the "ultimate" EGB by #mubb staff.
It's an open ended definition... like SOTG
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 02, 2024, 02:24:54 PM
It's an open ended definition... like SOTG
Scorer of the game
Stealer of the game
Skunk of the game
Shame of the game
Sean of the game
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 02, 2024, 02:34:12 PM
Scorer of the game
Stealer of the game
Skunk of the game
Shame of the game
Sean of the game
STOG?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 02, 2024, 11:49:49 AM
Jop deserves a double refund plus punitive damages.
Jop needs to contract the leg
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 02, 2024, 01:51:05 PM
New Scoop Rules per TAMU:
No quoting of other's posts shall be allowed in the SOTG threads (which btw I quoted Wades and agreed with his selection of Sean as SOTG)
EGB's are only "out of game behavior." WTAF? Does TAMU really believe Energy Generating Behaviors are restricted to those on the bench and that no player in the game can actually be perform Energy Generating Behavior? Like Shaka says - Hey guys on the floor - I don't want you to dive for loose balls, or "celebrate appropriately," or slap the floor - I need you to be robots and flat throughout the game."
Domino of the game is: "Spark of the game" despite Shaka awarding it to the high scorer and/or Ken Pom MVP every game.
Never said anything about rules for SOTG thread (like I never said other things you like to claim I did). Pointing out your tendency to not let things go and to state your opinion as fact.
I clearly didn't mean out of game as in players not on the floor. I literally gave slapping the floor as an example, something done by players on the floor.
Congrats to Sean Jones, very deserving choice.
We Are Marquette!
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 02, 2024, 03:18:37 PM
Never said anything about rules for SOTG thread (like I never said other things you like to claim I did). Pointing out your tendency to not let things go and to state your opinion as fact.
I clearly didn't mean out of game as in players not on the floor. I literally gave slapping the floor as an example, something done by players on the floor.
Quote from: TAMU, Knower of Ball on January 02, 2024, 12:16:37 PM
Domino is for play in game. EGB is for out of game behavior (ie cheering a teammate, slapping the floor, celebrating when appropriate)
It is laughable coming from you that you want to "point out my tendency to not let things go and state opinion as fact." You just stated EGB's are for out of game behavior as fact. And you really struggle to let things go..like I'm sure you'll feel the need to reply to this post too.
Reality is, is you can try to suggest Domino of the game isn't the equivalent of MVP, and you can also continue to argue that Stud of the Game on Scoop isn't MVP, yet the evidence is such that SOTG and Domino = MVP.
But, I'm all for creating a Sub SOTG on Scoop and we can call it the TAMUSOTG - and pick a player that isn't the leading scorer or KenPom MVP. In fact, I'll start that thread next game.
Happy New Year, and when I have more time I'll quote 5-10 of your all-time best Projo/Slurper quotes!
I mean if you really feel Domino is what your definition is, Stevie Mitchell would ba
To me, this is art
Quote from: Uncle Rico on January 02, 2024, 04:45:01 PM
To me, this is art
Lol. I'd say the same about this post.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 02, 2024, 04:41:13 PM
It is laughable coming from you that you want to "point out my tendency to not let things go and state opinion as fact." You just stated EGB's are for out of game behavior as fact. And you really struggle to let things go..like I'm sure you'll feel the need to reply to this post too.
Reality is, is you can try to suggest Domino of the game isn't the equivalent of MVP, and you can also continue to argue that Stud of the Game on Scoop isn't MVP, yet the evidence is such that SOTG and Domino = MVP.
But, I'm all for creating a Sub SOTG on Scoop and we can call it the TAMUSOTG - and pick a player that isn't the leading scorer or KenPom MVP. In fact, I'll start that thread next game.
Happy New Year, and when I have more time I'll quote 5-10 of your all-time best Projo/Slurper quotes!
I mean if you really feel Domino is what your definition is, Stevie Mitchell would ba
I mean Shaka has told us what a domino is. He's told us what an egb is. I guess youre right that I'm assuming that he's sticking to those definitions for those awards.
I've never said anything about Stud of the Game not being (Rocky's) MVP of the game.
This is also I believe the first time this season that I picked the non leading scorer or KenPom MVP for SotG. So make your thread if you want, it doesn't make much sense.
Your opinion is just as valid as anyone elses but try not to make things up
Spoken like a true Projo.
Because that has a lot to do with any of this.
Congrats to Sean.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 02, 2024, 04:41:13 PM
It is laughable coming from you that you want to "point out my tendency to not let things go and state opinion as fact." You just stated EGB's are for out of game behavior as fact. And you really struggle to let things go..like I'm sure you'll feel the need to reply to this post too.
Reality is, is you can try to suggest Domino of the game isn't the equivalent of MVP, and you can also continue to argue that Stud of the Game on Scoop isn't MVP, yet the evidence is such that SOTG and Domino = MVP.
But, I'm all for creating a Sub SOTG on Scoop and we can call it the TAMUSOTG - and pick a player that isn't the leading scorer or KenPom MVP. In fact, I'll start that thread next game.
Happy New Year, and when I have more time I'll quote 5-10 of your all-time best Projo/Slurper quotes!
I mean if you really feel Domino is what your definition is, Stevie Mitchell would ba
I agree - jop should've won yet another sotg
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 02, 2024, 11:19:10 AM
Hey now! I've legit forgot a few times :)
This one, I decided immediately after the game. I just like to let you guys argue about it for a few days!
I agree with those that say Sean. My eyes told me we won the game because of him. I don't normally pay too much attention to torvik's BPM or NET but for this particular game it's clear we were outplayed when he was off the court, and won when he was on the court (BPM +34.7!!, NET +7). I don't disagree with anyone that says other players were important to this win with defense or otherwise, but my eyes told me we won with Sean, and probably lose without him.
Meaningless Stud :)
This is where I was.
The entire team was excellent defensively, Sean included.
While there were others that were possibly deserving as well, and others that did great things offensively, the stretch from the 10 minute mark to the under 4 minute mark was the difference in the game.
Marquette was down 2 at the 10 minute mark in the 2H and up 4 at the 4 minute mark.
In that 6 pt swing SJ22 scored 10 of MUs 12 pts.
It was more the eye test and the magnitude of the moment for me though, and what he did with his 13 minutes.
I'll probably be in the minority here, but I was pretty surprised that TyKo was KenPom MVP. The stats are fine and he was still a solid performer, very very good defensively, but I'd be willing to bet he would say it wasn't one of his better performances offensively.
Maybe it was just me.
Either way, I was actually shocked that Shaka had Sean on the bench in the last 3/4 mins.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 02, 2024, 11:25:21 AM
I only give refunds if you go back and edit all your posts to "NM"
Also, just realized I messed up and never put stats up for Jop's SOTG. I owe him a refund.
With NIL now, you can take him on the scoop yacht and pay him for going!
Can someone now explain the criteria for DAWG?
https://www.facebook.com/100066492972180/posts/703960208497072/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 03, 2024, 07:55:29 AM
Can someone now explain the criteria for DAWG?
https://www.facebook.com/100066492972180/posts/703960208497072/?mibextid=rS40aB7S9Ucbxw6v
Ask Ners
Quote from: Elonsmusk on January 02, 2024, 04:41:13 PM
It is laughable coming from you that you want to "point out my tendency to not let things go and state opinion as fact." You just stated EGB's are for out of game behavior as fact. And you really struggle to let things go..like I'm sure you'll feel the need to reply to this post too.
Reality is, is you can try to suggest Domino of the game isn't the equivalent of MVP, and you can also continue to argue that Stud of the Game on Scoop isn't MVP, yet the evidence is such that SOTG and Domino = MVP.
But, I'm all for creating a Sub SOTG on Scoop and we can call it the TAMUSOTG - and pick a player that isn't the leading scorer or KenPom MVP. In fact, I'll start that thread next game.
Happy New Year, and when I have more time I'll quote 5-10 of your all-time best Projo/Slurper quotes!
I mean if you really feel Domino is what your definition is, Stevie Mitchell would ba
Good lord, just learn to take the L and move on, dude.
I watched the 10-minute "extended highlights" on YT last night.
Was definitely impressed (again) with the spark - and valuable/necessary points - Sean provided. We don't win the game without that unexpected lift.
Also was very impressed by Oso's work on the boards. Most of the tap-outs they showed were not just slaps that produced 50/50 balls; most were directed toward where his teammates were on the perimeter. One beauty in particular was aimed right at Kolek, who flipped to Kam for an open 3 (which Kam made). Oso also did a tremendous job boxing out and pursuing defensive boards. We don't win the game without that effort on the glass.
And finally, Kolek ... after a shaky early part of the game, he was so in control in the second half. Went anywhere he wanted on the court and made the offense flow. Plus, he was outstanding on D. We don't win the game without TK's overall outstanding performance.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 03, 2024, 08:32:45 AM
Good lord, just learn to take the L and move on, dude.
Bwahahahahaha
Gotta admit, before the season started I was definitely thinking we'd see Ross listed in the SoG Tally a time or two by this point. I'm hoping he'll be there within our next five games.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 03, 2024, 10:45:51 AM
Gotta admit, before the season started I was definitely thinking we'd see Ross listed in the SoG Tally a time or two by this point. I'm hoping he'll be there within our next five games.
Very uneven season for him and Jop so far, especially on offense. If they become more dependable offensive contributors, we will be very tough to beat.
Quote from: MU82 on January 03, 2024, 10:58:20 AM
Very uneven season for him and Jop so far, especially on offense. If they become more dependable offensive contributors, we will be very tough to beat.
Simply put, this factor is the difference between the wildly optimistic prediction I had for this point in the season (13-1) and the merely very solid performance thus far (11-3). I've been through some s**t with Marquette over the years... I absolutely will not complain about 11-3 and a No. 7 ranking even if it's not quite what I predicted.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 03, 2024, 11:23:29 AM
Simply put, this factor is the difference between the wildly optimistic prediction I had for this point in the season (13-1) and the merely very solid performance thus far (11-3). I've been through some s**t with Marquette over the years... I absolutely will not complain about 11-3 and a No. 7 ranking even if it's not quite what I predicted.
Yep. This is where I am at. Great to see Sean and Stevie break out of shooting slumps. Hopefully they and Chase and Joplin become more consistent offensively. And in the case of Chase maybe even have a couple big break out games where it becomes apparent he is ready for the next step of team leader next year. Lots of room for improvement and development throughout the season even with the number 7 ranking. This is more encouraging than discouraging to me.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on January 03, 2024, 10:45:51 AM
Gotta admit, before the season started I was definitely thinking we'd see Ross listed in the SoG Tally a time or two by this point. I'm hoping he'll be there within our next five games.
I'd like to see the offensive efficiency increase for him, but the overall numbers probably never will. He isn't really an offensive juggernaut, he's just a very solid player all around.
The kinda guy that could just go average his same numbers in the NBA. Tremendous impact, not a box score guy.