Some fun comments here. They start out ripping Shaka and then decide Terry must go. Several good comments about Kolek.
https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/topic/33219-texas-marquette-wednesday-7pm-on-fs1/page/6/#comments
Quote from: BLWarrior91 on December 06, 2023, 09:14:41 PM
Some fun comments here. They start out ripping Shaka and then decide Terry must go. Several good comments about Kolek.
https://www.surlyhorns.com/board/topic/33219-texas-marquette-wednesday-7pm-on-fs1/page/6/#comments
Scoop like
Marquette fans are a pain, but the Texas fan base is so incredibly toxic to their own players/coaches.
My favorite post: So this Shaka Smart guy seems like an up and Comer. We should keep him in mind the next time we need to hire a coach.
Quote from: MUbiz on December 06, 2023, 10:30:44 PM
My favorite post: So this Shaka Smart guy seems like an up and Comer. We should keep him in mind the next time we need to hire a coach.
I'll do you one better.
Quotei've posted this here once before, and only once, and for good reason. but ima go ahead and post it one more time, because i straight up don't like shaka and because i've seen enough evidence to at believe that this is at least plausible, if not probable:
Hide contents
i've heard from a good source- and a look at his recruiting classes and minutes distribution could support this- that shaka doesn't like/essentially resents white people, and avoids recruiting white players whenever he can. obviously this is conjecture; obviously this is a fairly serious accusation as far as personal character goes; that said, the people i've spoken to make a pretty compelling case, and frankly, so does the LHN tape from his time here. plenty of video of him hanging out with the black players and damn near tucking their grown asses into bed; literally zero video of him hanging out with the white guys. then you have will baker as the only white player he recruited while at texas, a five star from his own backyard. im just saying- it's at minimum plausible.
again, this is conjecture. i guess my main point would be that 99% of successful college basketball coaches are slime balls, and the rush to crown shaka as this exemplary human being really really REALLY irks me based on factual crap that i've posted here several times, along with this anti-white people conjecture which appears to be totally plausible. i'm not imploring you to hate the guy- but i am imploring people to stop sanctifying this guy when he's as morally ambiguous as the next cbb coach.
Even in the depths of our despair, I doubt we would say anything remotely this awful.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 07, 2023, 06:31:42 AM
I'll do you one better.
Even in the depths of our despair, I doubt we would say anything remotely this awful.
When we got blown out by UNC two years back there were people on here bringing up Shakas race. I mean this post is next level insanity but we've definitely had posters with moments on par. Difference is they aren't your everyday posters
Yes, some here would.
But everything is bigger in Texas.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 07, 2023, 06:31:42 AM
I'll do you one better.
Even in the depths of our despair, I doubt we would say anything remotely this awful.
Eh...everyone has a nolongerwarriors
Quote from: tower912 on December 07, 2023, 06:37:29 AM
But everything is bigger in Texas.
Including the losses to MU/former coaches.
Absolutely wild thing to say about Shaka, whose mother happens to be white.
Agree with the posts saying they were forced into Terry. Though he did well with Beard's players, they still should have brought in a more proven coach.
Sounds like a more profane scoop talking about Wojo. A couple of them even reached back to take shots at Barnes. And finally, they have an Abe Froman. Going into the way back machine, there was a poster using that name on the jsonline forum. A Badger fan with racist undertones. He and Chico engaged in battles daily. Back when Crean was the coach and Chico defended MU.
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 07, 2023, 06:31:42 AM
I'll do you one better.
Tyler and Ben disagree with that guy's assessment.
Shaka went after Kon, and has offered that 6'9 kid from up near Appleton.
Quote from: tower912 on December 07, 2023, 07:41:01 AM
Shaka went after Kon, and has offered that 6'9 kid from up near Appleton.
Confirmed not a racist
It's the nature of internet forums... they've all got their own ratio of sanity to crazies out there. I've followed their "Laugh and point at Shaka" thread since Shaka came here, it's been pretty entertaining with random splashing of informative.
Overall their board is pretty levelheaded, but it's clear that Shaka and their culture/types of things they demand of a coach don't mix, and the crapshoot of the NCAAT and Shaka's frustrating run in it became the scapegoat.
QuoteI think Kolek could play one on five and still beat Texas by himself.
This was my favorite
First, it is a 99.9999999% certainty that the guy accusing Shaka of racism is a raging racist.
His charge is so absurd that nothing else needs be said.
Second, FIFY ...
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 06, 2023, 09:22:39 PM
Marquette fans are a pain, but the Texas fan base is so incredibly toxic to their own players/coaches so are fans of every major college basketball and football program.
Quote from: tower912 on December 07, 2023, 07:41:01 AM
Shaka went after Kon, and has offered that 6'9 kid from up near Appleton.
Good points. Last time I looked, Gold and Kolek are Shaka recruits and getting big minutes. And Shaka's mother is white? Bunch of bull crap that he is anti-white. He recruits kids who fit his system and play basketball. Period.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 07, 2023, 09:07:52 AM
Good points. Last time I looked, Gold and Kolek are Shaka recruits and getting big minutes. And Shaka's mother is white? Bunch of bull crap that he is anti-white. He recruits kids who fit his system and play basketball. Period.
Counterpoint - he "missed" on two whities. Probably offered purely for optics
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 07, 2023, 06:31:42 AM
I'll do you one better.
Even in the depths of our despair, I doubt we would say anything remotely this awful.
LMFAO - I am speechless, but as other scoopers pointed out, Tyler and Ben disagree.
Stevie and Oso have white moms should we assume Shaka ignored them during recruiting and only talked to their dads? This poster is the type of person who clearly sees anyone who isn't pasty and says they must be sub Saharan African ::)
Did this guy get any replies or does the forum just ignore him?
Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 07, 2023, 11:33:26 AM
Stevie and Oso have white moms should we assume Shaka ignored them during recruiting and only talked to their dads? This poster is the type of person who clearly sees anyone who isn't pasty and says they must be sub Saharan African ::)
Did this guy get any replies or does the forum just ignore him?
Easy answer bub - Wojo recruited em
The evidence is mounting against Shaka
Quote from: panda on December 07, 2023, 11:40:20 AM
Easy answer bub - Wojo recruited em
The evidence is mounting against Shaka
It makes sense now why Oso didn't commit to Shaka when he was recruiting him to Texas. Only explanation
Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 07, 2023, 11:33:26 AM
Stevie and Oso have white moms should we assume Shaka ignored them during recruiting and only talked to their dads? This poster is the type of person who clearly sees anyone who isn't pasty and says they must be sub Saharan African ::)
Did this guy get any replies or does the forum just ignore him?
This was the reply:
I like you and I like your posting. You provide value to this board. I have sympathy for you and some of the issues you've discussed on this board. I like that you and I want a NC in basketball, and we seem to be one of the few people who actually want a competitive basketball program and not just entertainment in between football and baseball.
With that said, you should strongly considering deleting this. This is a very, very strong accusation, and (I'm not lawyer) it seems that if someone from that side go ahold of this, it could be trouble for you and the board.
But more importantly, I'm genuinely concerned that your hatred of Shaka and inability to move on has an influence on your health. I was ready for him to go and I got my wish. Moreover, I got my bigger wish which was us hiring Beard. 3 years later, I just don't care what Shaka does. He wins? Great. He loses? Cool, I don't care. Same for Herman and Strong in football. But accusations like the above have the ability to do harm to many people, yourself included. You aren't going to change the minds of media and what other people think about Shaka because of what he didn't or didn't do at Texas because you're personally hurt for some of the things he did (didn't do) while here.
Just a quick thot...
And the other reply was this:
I don't know, his white guard ABSOLUTELY torched us last night.
Quote from: MUbiz on December 07, 2023, 11:46:27 AM
This was the reply:
I like you and I like your posting. You provide value to this board. I have sympathy for you and some of the issues you've discussed on this board. I like that you and I want a NC in basketball, and we seem to be one of the few people who actually want a competitive basketball program and not just entertainment in between football and baseball.
With that said, you should strongly considering deleting this. This is a very, very strong accusation, and (I'm not lawyer) it seems that if someone from that side go ahold of this, it could be trouble for you and the board.
But more importantly, I'm genuinely concerned that your hatred of Shaka and inability to move on has an influence on your health. I was ready for him to go and I got my wish. Moreover, I got my bigger wish which was us hiring Beard. 3 years later, I just don't care what Shaka does. He wins? Great. He loses? Cool, I don't care. Same for Herman and Strong in football. But accusations like the above have the ability to do harm to many people, yourself included. You aren't going to change the minds of media and what other people think about Shaka because of what he didn't or didn't do at Texas because you're personally hurt for some of the things he did (didn't do) while here.
Just a quick thot...
Why has that poster moved on from Shaka? Any good fan obsesses over the previous coach and how or what they're doing
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 07, 2023, 11:50:51 AM
Why has that poster moved on from Shaka? Any good fan obsesses over the previous coach and how or what they're doing
I got better things to do than watch G league games uncle rico! ;D
Quote from: MUbiz on December 07, 2023, 11:52:51 AM
I got better things to do than watch G league games uncle rico! ;D
Like watch TAMU and root against them!
Quote from: MU82 on December 07, 2023, 09:06:43 AM
First, it is a 99.9999999% certainty that the guy accusing Shaka of racism is a raging racist.
His charge is so absurd that nothing else needs be said.
Second, FIFY ...
Perfectly said.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 07, 2023, 06:36:50 AM
When we got blown out by UNC two years back there were people on here bringing up Shakas race. I mean this post is next level insanity but we've definitely had posters with moments on par. Difference is they aren't your everyday posters
probably the same idiots who call play-by-play man Steve 'Homer' True a racist
Quote from: Viper on December 07, 2023, 12:31:29 PM
probably the same idiots who call play-by-play man Steve 'Homer' True a racist
:o ::) :-X
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 07, 2023, 06:31:42 AM
Even in the depths of our despair, I doubt we would say anything remotely this awful.
We've called that "Traditional", as in "we need more
traditional players".....
Quote from: Viper on December 07, 2023, 12:31:29 PM
probably the same idiots who call play-by-play man Steve 'Homer' True a racist
That guy is still employed? Embarrassing for the program
Quote from: lurch91 on December 07, 2023, 01:08:12 PM
We've called that "Traditional", as in "we need more traditional players".....
By "we", you mean Chicos. Almost every other reference to traditionals was just making fun of him.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 07, 2023, 11:55:16 AM
Like watch TAMU and root against them!
What did i ever do to you!? ;D
Quote from: Hards Alumni on December 07, 2023, 06:31:42 AM
I'll do you one better.
Even in the depths of our despair, I doubt we would say anything remotely this awful.
So a while back I wandered over to this site to see what they thought of Shaka doing well at Marquette. I found the "Point and Laugh at Shaka Smart" thread and read some of the most recent posts. It's embarrassing to admit, but I do poke my head over there after we have a big win to read what they wrote and enjoy some schadenfreude.
The poster who wrote this is "Shadow Operative". He kind of seems like their version of Chicos. The man is absolutely deranged and obsessed with Shaka. He posts multiple times during each of our games cursing Shaka, laughing when we lose and tearing him down when we win. This isn't the first time he's made up wild sh*t about Shaka. He claims to regularly speak with some of Shaka's former players at Texas and has claimed that they all hated Shaka, that he was verbally abusive, drove players to transfer, benched a player because the player's grandmother died, revealed personal information about players that they didn't want shared. Racist against White people is a new one.
No one agreed with his latest allegation. Several other posters called him out. Here are some of his responses to being called out:
Quotei can promise you im fine. i don't ever think about him unless there's a tangible reason to, and i don't think that anything that i've posted in this thread points towards an unhealthy obsession with a guy. again, i essentially never even think about the guy unless there's a basketball related reason to.
i only really hate one sports figure, and that's jeff fisher, and even he takes up zero space in my head unless his name gets brought up.
to recap: i want to see shaka smart fail as a HC. other than that, i don't ever think about the guy, and i don't hate him. i just don't like the repeated insistence that he's a "great guy", when i know from talking to some of his former players that he's just as crappy a guy as you'd expect any major d-1 basketball coach to be, specifically in terms of mistreating his players.
Quotei've been wondering kolek might cause him to rethink his *alleged* feelings towards fairer skinned athletes, lol.
Quotethe context is that people keep repeating over and over that shaka is this particularly wonderful man, and he's not. now, i put what i said in spoilers, and i bent over backwards to repeat that what i was saying was secondhand information from sources who i trust, and that it's not necessarily a fact, but that this idea about him has legs for a reason.
i, and many other people here with connections, have been sharing secondhand info like this for more than a decade around here, and it's never been a problem before. suddenly when the post is a hot button topic like race everyone is scrambling to clutch their pearls and distance themselves from this info. it's seriously not even remotely as big a deal as y'all are making it out to be. at this point it's an internet rumor that's buried deep within a texas basketball thread in a minuscule corner or the internet. everything is going to be ok. you all are overreacting to this.
Quotealso, pancho- you were there when a bunch of your homeboys shoulder checked me and then surrounded me at disch falk field, trying to get me to hit one of them so that they could jump me. you were *right there*, and you didn't seem to have any worries about those guys and their insanely unhealthy obsession with me. in fact someone near where you were standing (you?) was even taking photos. you were just going to watch me get jumped had i decided to make a move, all because of one line that i said to a guy on shaggy. you didn't intervene then, and when i finally brought it up on the boards you didn't admonish your friends for their psycho behavior. but now i pass along some info that shaka allegedly doesn't really like white people and now you're worried for my health? come on man, stop it. that crap is patronizing and unfounded. just ridiculous really.
To which Pancho responded:
QuoteMe? I 100% do not believe I've met or seen you in real life.
To which he responded:
Quoteyou were at the shoulder check thing. you watched it happen.i walked up to you after and asked you, "what the hell was that?" you just shrugged. that's the extent of our meeting.
edit: and if that wasn't you then i've been under the impression it was all this time. you were there, yes?
The man does not seem well
That dude has some serious mental health issues that he should go seek help for.
Therapy is good folks
There have been variations on that level of unhinged on this board over the years. I would argue there is one going on right now.
Obviously, me and diet Pepsi.
Duh.
For a guy who claims he doesn't think about Shaka, he seemed obsessed with him.
Their fan base is completely delusional about their program, ignoring the fact that they're only gone to one Final Four in most our lifetimes. Oddly enough, it was 2003. They've won zero natys. Even Wisconsin has one!
Mexican Coke > Yankee Coke
Shaka is Texas's Wojo.
Quote from: tower912 on December 08, 2023, 07:43:57 AM
Shaka is Texas's Wojo.
I don't think this is even close to the right analogy.
So far its shaping up like Barnes 2.0.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 08, 2023, 07:48:32 AM
I don't think this is even close to the right analogy.
Probably would be if Wojo went off and was crazy successful, there'd 100% be posters with a weird obsession.
Quote from: BLWarrior91 on December 08, 2023, 07:28:30 AM
They've won zero natys. Even Wisconsin has one!
Ah yes back when the NIT was viewed as the better field, basketball wasn't integrated, half the youths were off fighting in WW2, and the tournament was 8 teams.
He underperformed expectations. No postseason success. Remarkably similar records. A fanbase that hated his offense, hated his defense, was glad to see him go and yet still obsessed with him. Which one am I talking about?
I stand by what I said.
Quote from: tower912 on December 08, 2023, 07:54:31 AM
He underperformed expectations. No postseason success. Remarkably similar records. A fanbase that hated his offense, hated his defense, was glad to see him go and yet still obsessed with him. Which one am I talking about?
I stand by what I said.
Crean?
Crean made a final 4. And a lot of money off of it.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on December 08, 2023, 07:52:21 AM
Probably would be if Wojo went off and was crazy successful, there'd 100% be posters with a weird obsession.
So if it were a completely different situation it would be the same?
Quote from: tower912 on December 08, 2023, 07:54:31 AM
He underperformed expectations. No postseason success. Remarkably similar records. A fanbase that hated his offense, hated his defense, was glad to see him go and yet still obsessed with him. Which one am I talking about?
I stand by what I said.
You're correct.
It's a unique college sports thing, imo, the obsession with former coaches. Maybe I'm off-base, but college sports fans expand a lot of energy hating the former guys versus what you see from fans of professional sports.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 08, 2023, 08:29:18 AM
Maybe I'm off-base, but college sports fans expand a lot of energy hating the former guys versus what you see from fans of professional sports.
Expend as well, aina
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 08, 2023, 08:24:04 AM
So if it were a completely different situation it would be the same?
I mean Wojo's still young there's plenty of time for him to get a shot at another school or become something in the pros. But let's put this another way, if scoop had been around when Majerus was at Utah we'd have been obsessing about why he couldn't do that at MU. Or Tex was at KState
The racial component of this discussion is amazingly ignorant and fails to understand what's happening in society at large in the last 68 years. The dude fails to understand we're not in the 1950s anymore.
We became one of the best basketball teams in America when we became inclusive. All of the big wins we have had since 1966 have been in no small measure because we were inclusive. And because we did this with our basketball team, our leaders also have done the same with our university. When we won our Natty in 1977, four of our five starters were African Americans. We're much better off because we ARE inclusive.
The two greatest ballplayers of all time, Michael and Kareem, were diverse.
Ultimately, I don't care who Coach Shaka puts on the floor as long as they win and they're good representatives of the university. I'm not supporting them any more or less based on their ethnic or any other classification.
Sounds to me as if Texas is having a bit of seller's remorse!
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 08, 2023, 08:37:46 AM
Sounds to me as if Texas is having a bit of seller's remorse!
Mississippi (and rival Oklahoma) have the fifth longest unbeaten streaks in the country.
Quote from: tower912 on December 08, 2023, 07:54:31 AM
He underperformed expectations. No postseason success. Remarkably similar records. A fanbase that hated his offense, hated his defense, was glad to see him go and yet still obsessed with him. Which one am I talking about?
I stand by what I said.
I do think the when is significantly different, though. Shaka had arguably his best team when they let him walk. Basically tied for second in the B12, the toughest league in the country, and won the Big 12 tourney title. I know the ACU loss led to a lot of frustration for them, but they let Shaka walk away at his peak there while we fired Wojo at his nadir.
Reading their comments, I'm sure Rodney Terry will be out in no more than 2-3 years. It will be interesting to see not just who replaces him, but where he goes and what success he has there. I think the biggest difference between the fanbases is that Marquette's fanbase believes they deserve to return to a level we were once at decades ago but have never been able to repeat, while Texas fans believe they deserve to be at a level they have never shown the capability of reaching. Might we both be a little bit delusional? Sure, but one fanbase's delusion is based on actual history as opposed to entitlement.
I am thrilled we have Shaka, but to try to paint his time at Texas as anything but significant underachievement is really trying to rewrite history.
And it's really not necessary to rewrite that history. In the end, what happened with him at Texas only benefited Marquette.
Like good players, good coaches learn and grow and improve. It's great to have the little-bit-older, little-bit-wiser, little-bit-better Shaka Smart as our coach.
"Entitlement" is the key word. Brew. This is their M.O. as fans. So, Barnes has a few seasons that are not good enough for Texas, and he lands at Tennessee and does well. Shaka did not live up to their expectations, and he is named COY at Marquette. Then they trash talk their former coaches. Kolek 'em!
Quote from: MU82 on December 08, 2023, 09:18:58 AM
I am thrilled we have Shaka, but to try to paint his time at Texas as anything but significant underachievement is really trying to rewrite history.
And it's really not necessary to rewrite that history. In the end, what happened with him at Texas only benefited Marquette.
Like good players, good coaches learn and grow and improve. It's great to have the little-bit-older, little-bit-wiser, little-bit-better Shaka Smart as our coach.
I've said this before and I'll say it again:
Had Coach Shaka not gone to Texas, I doubt we would have him today. Were we successful in hiring Coach Shaka when we brought in Coach Wojo, the question would have been how long we would have kept Coach Shaka. Had we experienced the success we're having today, I'd bet anything Power 5 conference universities would be all over him.
Instead, he's tasted Texas. I'm guessing he's had enough!
Now, I think Coach Shaka is here as long as we want him. Which I trust will be the rest of my life! He's incredible!
Where did the idea that Shaka's mother is white come from? Did the spray tan go wrong here then?
Texas basketball hasn't been relevant since we made the final four last. They have been to one elite 8 since. Not sure why there fans act like they should be Duke.
Quote from: MU82 on December 08, 2023, 09:18:58 AM
I am thrilled we have Shaka, but to try to paint his time at Texas as anything but significant underachievement is really trying to rewrite history.
And it's really not necessary to rewrite that history. In the end, what happened with him at Texas only benefited Marquette.
Like good players, good coaches learn and grow and improve. It's great to have the little-bit-older, little-bit-wiser, little-bit-better Shaka Smart as our coach.
I'm not saying he didn't meet the expectations they had. But there were strong reasons to suggest Shaka's program was going in the right direction (sustained defense, offensive improvement, best conference regular season/tournament finish) whereas Wojo had a second losing season to go out on. ACU was a terrible matchup, but if the sub-50% free throw shooter doesn't swish two at the buzzer, Smart would've been a pretty heavy favorite to at least make the Sweet 16 and possibly the Final Four (Mick Cronin's upstart UCLA team would've been next).
How Smart's tenure at Texas ended was radically different from how Wojo's ended at Marquette, particularly when the real underachievement they cared about was only about 3 games:
1) Halfcourt buzzer beater to lose in 2016 NCAA Tournament
2) Overtime defeat after leading the entire second half in 2018 NCAA Tournament
3) Free throws at the buzzer to lose in 2021 NCAA Tournament
Three coin flip losses for Shaka in six years as opposed to two blowouts in seven years for Wojo. I'm glad he lost those games because otherwise he's not here now, but the two are not apples to apples comparisons.
Thanks for the recap Brew. Those 3 losses shaped our program for hopefully years to come. Crazy!
Quote from: withoutbias on December 08, 2023, 09:30:11 AM
Where did the idea that Shaka's mother is white come from? Did the spray tan go wrong here then?
.... thats not Shakas mom. I believe that is his mother in law.
I don't have a picture but I've seen her at games. Here it is in writing
https://www.espn.com/ncb/tournament/2011/columns/story/_/columnist/forde_pat/id/6276122
QuoteThere has been much to fight and much to prove in Smart's life.
Born to an African-American father and a white mother, he was too black for some in his hometown of Oregon, Wis.; too white for others.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on December 08, 2023, 09:47:05 AM
Thanks for the recap Brew. Those 3 losses shaped our program for hopefully years to come. Crazy!
Even more wild, in those last two stints, the bracket Texas was in were won by 11-seeds, Loyola in 2018 and UCLA in 2021. He had paths to the Final Four, but came up a possession short both times. I strongly expect in the long-term, that will be very good for us. If you go back to his two first-round exits at VCU, those were also both in overtime. He was on the wrong end of a long string of single-possession NCAA games.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 08, 2023, 09:57:56 AM
Even more wild, in those last two stints, the bracket Texas was in were won by 11-seeds, Loyola in 2018 and UCLA in 2021. He had paths to the Final Four, but came up a possession short both times. I strongly expect in the long-term, that will be very good for us. If you go back to his two first-round exits at VCU, those were also both in overtime. He was on the wrong end of a long string of single-possession NCAA games.
He's due for a run of good luck then. Just had to change black jack tables! Final Four here we come!
Nah, I still dislike Mediocre Mike...
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 08, 2023, 08:29:18 AM
You're correct.
It's a unique college sports thing, imo, the obsession with former coaches. Maybe I'm off-base, but college sports fans expand a lot of energy hating the former guys versus what you see from fans of professional sports.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 08, 2023, 09:39:00 AM
I'm not saying he didn't meet the expectations they had. But there were strong reasons to suggest Shaka's program was going in the right direction (sustained defense, offensive improvement, best conference regular season/tournament finish) whereas Wojo had a second losing season to go out on. ACU was a terrible matchup, but if the sub-50% free throw shooter doesn't swish two at the buzzer, Smart would've been a pretty heavy favorite to at least make the Sweet 16 and possibly the Final Four (Mick Cronin's upstart UCLA team would've been next).
How Smart's tenure at Texas ended was radically different from how Wojo's ended at Marquette, particularly when the real underachievement they cared about was only about 3 games:
1) Halfcourt buzzer beater to lose in 2016 NCAA Tournament
2) Overtime defeat after leading the entire second half in 2018 NCAA Tournament
3) Free throws at the buzzer to lose in 2021 NCAA Tournament
Three coin flip losses for Shaka in six years as opposed to two blowouts in seven years for Wojo. I'm glad he lost those games because otherwise he's not here now, but the two are not apples to apples comparisons.
Good detail, brew, and I mostly agree.
I'm not as willing to give Texas a pass on the "bad matchup" with ACU, as that's a pretty lame excuse for a team with significant talent and size advantages; nor on the FTs made by the bad shooter, because a game against the likes of ACU (which subsequently lost by 20 to UCLA) shouldn't come down to that.
Although there was an 11-22 season sprinkled in there that was Wojo on Steroids bad, I'll acknowledge that Shaka wasn't quite as underachieving at Texas as Wojo was at Marquette, and I'll
definitely agree that Shaka left Texas in far better shape than Wojo left Marquette.
Thank goodness for the rich guy(s) who made it possible for Marquette to dump Wojo and bring in Shaka.
Quote from: tower912 on December 08, 2023, 07:43:57 AM
Shaka is Texas's Wojo.
The more apt analogy: Shaka is Texas's Hausers.
Shaka had great reg season success with them, failed embarrassingly in the postseason, and ran away when pressure got high. Now some weirdos in the fanbase act like jilted lovers (see 80 page SuperBar thread).
Your analogy gives Wojo way more credit than he deserves.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 08, 2023, 09:05:58 AM
I do think the when is significantly different, though. Shaka had arguably his best team when they let him walk. Basically tied for second in the B12, the toughest league in the country, and won the Big 12 tourney title. I know the ACU loss led to a lot of frustration for them, but they let Shaka walk away at his peak there while we fired Wojo at his nadir.
Reading their comments, I'm sure Rodney Terry will be out in no more than 2-3 years. It will be interesting to see not just who replaces him, but where he goes and what success he has there. I think the biggest difference between the fanbases is that Marquette's fanbase believes they deserve to return to a level we were once at decades ago but have never been able to repeat, while Texas fans believe they deserve to be at a level they have never shown the capability of reaching. Might we both be a little bit delusional? Sure, but one fanbase's delusion is based on actual history as opposed to entitlement.
One difference I'll point out, is that Texas has shown a proclivity to get more one-and-dones and the fans and large donors seem to push the program towards doing so. This probably makes up for the lack of national level success regarding their level of expectations.
Shaka is younger than Wojo. Wojo had two winning conference seasons out of seven which did him in when he refused offers to upgrade his staff.
Let's hope both learned from their past mistakes. It is quite evident that Shaka has (with still room for improvement). More so, he has incredibly reenergized the program and university, and his style of offense AND defense are far more exciting to watch.
I have to agree that Shaka was kind of Texas' Wojo... but a Wojo-lite version of it. He had more success than Wojo, but in the broadest brush the idea is that both had regular season successes (with some non-success) without much to show post season. One went out on an upswing, one on a down and a few other caveats... but it's not all that different.
You think that's bad look at the Iowa board. Pretty unnatural carnal knowledgeing pathetic.
https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/what-do-you-expect-when-you-start-4-white-guys-our-b-ball-team-is-a-bigger-national-joke-than-our-fball-offense-both-f'n-pathetic.432669/#post-11701349 (https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/what-do-you-expect-when-you-start-4-white-guys-our-b-ball-team-is-a-bigger-national-joke-than-our-fball-offense-both-f'n-pathetic.432669/#post-11701349)
Quote from: tower912 on December 08, 2023, 07:43:57 AM
Shaka is Texas's Wojo.
Except he was good at coaching. Shaka kept Justin Lewis right away. Wojo lost Deonte Burton after a few games. Shaka won straight away. Wojo didn't make the tournament until his 3rd season. Shaka has been able to recruit and have rosters with 12 scholarship players on them. Wojo hardly ever did that. Shaka was never crazy enough to start two 5'10" guards. Wojo did that for nearly an entire season. Shaka never recruited and played bad players to keep their brother happy. Wojo both recruited and played Wally. Shaka never made large promises to recruits. Wojo made promises all the time.
And finallly the AD and Shaka never saw eye to eye. Meanwhile at Marquette, the AD gives you his undivided attention. So much so that the AD was wiling to give wojo another year if he was willing to change his staff. Wojo refused. He kept a boosters kid on as a Program Assistant. He didn't fill his staff with diserable and talented staff members that other BigEastSchools would want. Outside Justin Gainey and arguabbly Stan Johnson, wojo's staffs were rough.
Our team has Wojo's fingerprints all over it. He largely designed this, and is winning when we win. #PraiseDue
Quote from: MU82 on December 08, 2023, 10:27:13 AMI'm not as willing to give Texas a pass on the "bad matchup" with ACU, as that's a pretty lame excuse for a team with significant talent and size advantages; nor on the FTs made by the bad shooter, because a game against the likes of ACU (which subsequently lost by 20 to UCLA) shouldn't come down to that.
Sorry, I phrased that poorly. It was terrible execution rather than the matchup, but I think Texas came in primed to see a team like UCLA who they would've played next and wasn't ready for a game that was frankly just ugly on both sides. There's definitely some coaching and prep blame to be cast there, so I'm not saying Shaka is wholly innocent, but I do think he was very unfortunate not just in how that game went but essentially losing 4 straight single possession/OT games in the NCAA Tournament.
Upsets will happen, so losing one isn't that big a deal in the long run, and 50/50 games go the wrong way, so losing one also isn't a big deal in the long run, but losing five in essentially the same fashion shows they were prepared enough to be competitive but ultimately got unlucky a ton. I have a feeling that had 2-3 of those flipped the other way, there would be at least 1-2 additional second or third weekend appearances, but there weren't and those are the breaks. Texas' loss is our gain.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 08, 2023, 11:11:54 AM
Sorry, I phrased that poorly. It was terrible execution rather than the matchup, but I think Texas came in primed to see a team like UCLA who they would've played next and wasn't ready for a game that was frankly just ugly on both sides. There's definitely some coaching and prep blame to be cast there, so I'm not saying Shaka is wholly innocent, but I do think he was very unfortunate not just in how that game went but essentially losing 4 straight single possession/OT games in the NCAA Tournament.
Upsets will happen, so losing one isn't that big a deal in the long run, and 50/50 games go the wrong way, so losing one also isn't a big deal in the long run, but losing five in essentially the same fashion shows they were prepared enough to be competitive but ultimately got unlucky a ton. I have a feeling that had 2-3 of those flipped the other way, there would be at least 1-2 additional second or third weekend appearances, but there weren't and those are the breaks. Texas' loss is our gain.
Reasonable. I won't argue with any of it ... especially the last sentence!
Soon enough, after Shaka has gotten us to at least one Final Four, Texas can enjoy their third coach since ACU did us the biggest favor imaginable.
Just like the condition of attending a specific university can not be a part of NIL ...
Quote from: Jay Bee on December 08, 2023, 11:09:16 AM
Our team has Wojo's fingerprints all over it. He largely designed this, and is winning when we win. #PraiseDue
Quote from: MU82 on December 08, 2023, 12:04:56 PM
Reasonable. I won't argue with any of it ... especially the last sentence!
Soon enough, after Shaka has gotten us to at least one Final Four, Texas can enjoy their third coach since ACU did us the biggest favor imaginable.
Buzz is waiting for that call.
Quote from: MU82 on December 08, 2023, 12:04:56 PM
Reasonable. I won't argue with any of it ... especially the last sentence!
Soon enough, after Shaka has gotten us to at least one Final Four, Texas can enjoy their third coach since ACU did us the biggest favor imaginable.
I still think the best part of the story is Joe Golding, the ACU coach that beat Shaka. Here's why:
1) Golding beats Shaka, leading Smart to leave Texas for Marquette.
2) Chris Beard leaves Texas Tech for Texas.
3) Beard hires UTEP coach Rodney Terry, creating a coaching vacancy, filled by...
4) Joe Golding, whose win over Smart indirectly led to the vacancy he filled & raise he received in the process.
And every one of those coaches was under a long-term contract with his team. Tells you all you need to know about coaching contracts, and why I root for athletes to get every $$$ they can.
Quote from: MU82 on December 08, 2023, 10:24:43 PM
And every one of those coaches was under a long-term contract with his team. Tells you all you need to know about coaching contracts, and why I root for athletes to get every $$$ they can.
Disagree on the students, but coaching contracts, yeah. Always been like that. "Locked up coach so and so for X years!" Uhhh, no