Texas Longhorns Forum

[Jay Bee]

Maybe I'm off-base, but college sports fans expand a lot of energy hating the former guys versus what you see from fans of professional sports.

Expend as well, aina

[Galway Eagle]

So if it were a completely different situation it would be the same?

I mean Wojo's still young there's plenty of time for him to get a shot at another school or become something in the pros. But let's put this another way, if scoop had been around when Majerus was at Utah we'd have been obsessing about why he couldn't do that at MU. Or Tex was at KState

[dgies9156]

The racial component of this discussion is amazingly ignorant and fails to understand what's happening in society at large in the last 68 years. The dude fails to understand we're not in the 1950s anymore.

We became one of the best basketball teams in America when we became inclusive. All of the big wins we have had since 1966 have been in no small measure because we were inclusive. And because we did this with our basketball team, our leaders also have done the same with our university. When we won our Natty in 1977, four of our five starters were African Americans. We're much better off because we ARE inclusive.

The two greatest ballplayers of all time, Michael and Kareem, were diverse.

Ultimately, I don't care who Coach Shaka puts on the floor as long as they win and they're good representatives of the university. I'm not supporting them any more or less based on their ethnic or any other classification.

Sounds to me as if Texas is having a bit of seller's remorse!

[Uncle Rico]

Expend as well, aina

That, too

[Dr. Blackheart]

Sounds to me as if Texas is having a bit of seller's remorse!

Mississippi (and rival Oklahoma) have the fifth longest unbeaten streaks in the country.

[brewcity77]

He underperformed expectations.  No postseason success.  Remarkably similar records.   A fanbase that hated his offense, hated his defense, was glad to see him go and yet still obsessed with him.    Which one am I talking about?

I stand by what I said.

I do think the when is significantly different, though. Shaka had arguably his best team when they let him walk. Basically tied for second in the B12, the toughest league in the country, and won the Big 12 tourney title. I know the ACU loss led to a lot of frustration for them, but they let Shaka walk away at his peak there while we fired Wojo at his nadir.

Reading their comments, I'm sure Rodney Terry will be out in no more than 2-3 years. It will be interesting to see not just who replaces him, but where he goes and what success he has there. I think the biggest difference between the fanbases is that Marquette's fanbase believes they deserve to return to a level we were once at decades ago but have never been able to repeat, while Texas fans believe they deserve to be at a level they have never shown the capability of reaching. Might we both be a little bit delusional? Sure, but one fanbase's delusion is based on actual history as opposed to entitlement.

[MU82]

I am thrilled we have Shaka, but to try to paint his time at Texas as anything but significant underachievement is really trying to rewrite history.

And it's really not necessary to rewrite that history. In the end, what happened with him at Texas only benefited Marquette.

Like good players, good coaches learn and grow and improve. It's great to have the little-bit-older, little-bit-wiser, little-bit-better Shaka Smart as our coach.

[Scoop Snoop]

"Entitlement" is the key word. Brew. This is their M.O. as fans. So, Barnes has a few seasons that are not good enough for Texas, and he lands at Tennessee and does well. Shaka did not live up to their expectations, and he is named COY at Marquette. Then they trash talk their former coaches. Kolek 'em!

[dgies9156]

I am thrilled we have Shaka, but to try to paint his time at Texas as anything but significant underachievement is really trying to rewrite history.

And it's really not necessary to rewrite that history. In the end, what happened with him at Texas only benefited Marquette.

Like good players, good coaches learn and grow and improve. It's great to have the little-bit-older, little-bit-wiser, little-bit-better Shaka Smart as our coach.

I've said this before and I'll say it again:

Had Coach Shaka not gone to Texas, I doubt we would have him today. Were we successful in hiring Coach Shaka when we brought in Coach Wojo, the question would have been how long we would have kept Coach Shaka. Had we experienced the success we're having today, I'd bet anything Power 5 conference universities would be all over him.

Instead, he's tasted Texas. I'm guessing he's had enough!

Now, I think Coach Shaka is here as long as we want him. Which I trust will be the rest of my life! He's incredible!

[withoutbias]

Where did the idea that Shaka's mother is white come from?  Did the spray tan go wrong here then?

[HowardsWorld]

Texas basketball hasn't been relevant since we made the final four last. They have been to one elite 8 since. Not sure why there fans act like they should be Duke.

[brewcity77]

I am thrilled we have Shaka, but to try to paint his time at Texas as anything but significant underachievement is really trying to rewrite history.

And it's really not necessary to rewrite that history. In the end, what happened with him at Texas only benefited Marquette.

Like good players, good coaches learn and grow and improve. It's great to have the little-bit-older, little-bit-wiser, little-bit-better Shaka Smart as our coach.

I'm not saying he didn't meet the expectations they had. But there were strong reasons to suggest Shaka's program was going in the right direction (sustained defense, offensive improvement, best conference regular season/tournament finish) whereas Wojo had a second losing season to go out on. ACU was a terrible matchup, but if the sub-50% free throw shooter doesn't swish two at the buzzer, Smart would've been a pretty heavy favorite to at least make the Sweet 16 and possibly the Final Four (Mick Cronin's upstart UCLA team would've been next).

How Smart's tenure at Texas ended was radically different from how Wojo's ended at Marquette, particularly when the real underachievement they cared about was only about 3 games:

1) Halfcourt buzzer beater to lose in 2016 NCAA Tournament
2) Overtime defeat after leading the entire second half in 2018 NCAA Tournament
3) Free throws at the buzzer to lose in 2021 NCAA Tournament

Three coin flip losses for Shaka in six years as opposed to two blowouts in seven years for Wojo. I'm glad he lost those games because otherwise he's not here now, but the two are not apples to apples comparisons.

[Shooter McGavin]

Thanks for the recap Brew.  Those 3 losses shaped our program for hopefully years to come. Crazy!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Where did the idea that Shaka's mother is white come from?  Did the spray tan go wrong here then?

.... thats not Shakas mom. I believe that is his mother in law.

I don't have a picture but I've seen her at games.  Here it is in writing

https://www.espn.com/ncb/tournament/2011/columns/story/_/columnist/forde_pat/id/6276122

There has been much to fight and much to prove in Smart's life.

Born to an African-American father and a white mother, he was too black for some in his hometown of Oregon, Wis.; too white for others.

[brewcity77]

Thanks for the recap Brew.  Those 3 losses shaped our program for hopefully years to come. Crazy!

Even more wild, in those last two stints, the bracket Texas was in were won by 11-seeds, Loyola in 2018 and UCLA in 2021. He had paths to the Final Four, but came up a possession short both times. I strongly expect in the long-term, that will be very good for us. If you go back to his two first-round exits at VCU, those were also both in overtime. He was on the wrong end of a long string of single-possession NCAA games.

[Shooter McGavin]

Even more wild, in those last two stints, the bracket Texas was in were won by 11-seeds, Loyola in 2018 and UCLA in 2021. He had paths to the Final Four, but came up a possession short both times. I strongly expect in the long-term, that will be very good for us. If you go back to his two first-round exits at VCU, those were also both in overtime. He was on the wrong end of a long string of single-possession NCAA games.

He's due for a run of good luck then.  Just had to change black jack tables!  Final Four here we come!

[PointWarrior]

Nah, I still dislike Mediocre Mike...

You're correct.

It's a unique college sports thing, imo, the obsession with former coaches.  Maybe I'm off-base, but college sports fans expand a lot of energy hating the former guys versus what you see from fans of professional sports.

[MU82]

I'm not saying he didn't meet the expectations they had. But there were strong reasons to suggest Shaka's program was going in the right direction (sustained defense, offensive improvement, best conference regular season/tournament finish) whereas Wojo had a second losing season to go out on. ACU was a terrible matchup, but if the sub-50% free throw shooter doesn't swish two at the buzzer, Smart would've been a pretty heavy favorite to at least make the Sweet 16 and possibly the Final Four (Mick Cronin's upstart UCLA team would've been next).

How Smart's tenure at Texas ended was radically different from how Wojo's ended at Marquette, particularly when the real underachievement they cared about was only about 3 games:

1) Halfcourt buzzer beater to lose in 2016 NCAA Tournament
2) Overtime defeat after leading the entire second half in 2018 NCAA Tournament
3) Free throws at the buzzer to lose in 2021 NCAA Tournament

Three coin flip losses for Shaka in six years as opposed to two blowouts in seven years for Wojo. I'm glad he lost those games because otherwise he's not here now, but the two are not apples to apples comparisons.

Good detail, brew, and I mostly agree.

I'm not as willing to give Texas a pass on the "bad matchup" with ACU, as that's a pretty lame excuse for a team with significant talent and size advantages; nor on the FTs made by the bad shooter, because a game against the likes of ACU (which subsequently lost by 20 to UCLA) shouldn't come down to that.

Although there was an 11-22 season sprinkled in there that was Wojo on Steroids bad, I'll acknowledge that Shaka wasn't quite as underachieving at Texas as Wojo was at Marquette, and I'll definitely agree that Shaka left Texas in far better shape than Wojo left Marquette.

Thank goodness for the rich guy(s) who made it possible for Marquette to dump Wojo and bring in Shaka.

[5DollarPitcher]

Shaka is Texas's Wojo.

The more apt analogy: Shaka is Texas's Hausers.

Shaka had great reg season success with them, failed embarrassingly in the postseason, and ran away when pressure got high. Now some weirdos in the fanbase act like jilted lovers (see 80 page SuperBar thread).

Your analogy gives Wojo way more credit than he deserves.

[UWW2MU]

I do think the when is significantly different, though. Shaka had arguably his best team when they let him walk. Basically tied for second in the B12, the toughest league in the country, and won the Big 12 tourney title. I know the ACU loss led to a lot of frustration for them, but they let Shaka walk away at his peak there while we fired Wojo at his nadir.

Reading their comments, I'm sure Rodney Terry will be out in no more than 2-3 years. It will be interesting to see not just who replaces him, but where he goes and what success he has there. I think the biggest difference between the fanbases is that Marquette's fanbase believes they deserve to return to a level we were once at decades ago but have never been able to repeat, while Texas fans believe they deserve to be at a level they have never shown the capability of reaching. Might we both be a little bit delusional? Sure, but one fanbase's delusion is based on actual history as opposed to entitlement.

One difference I'll point out, is that Texas has shown a proclivity to get more one-and-dones and the fans and large donors seem to push the program towards doing so.  This probably makes up for the lack of national level success regarding their level of expectations.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Shaka is younger than Wojo. Wojo had two winning conference seasons out of seven which did him in when he refused offers to upgrade his staff.

Let's hope both learned from their past mistakes. It is quite evident that Shaka has (with still room for improvement).  More so, he has incredibly reenergized the program and university, and his style of offense AND defense are far more exciting to watch.

[UWW2MU]

I have to agree that Shaka was kind of Texas' Wojo... but a Wojo-lite version of it.   He had more success than Wojo, but in the broadest brush the idea is that both had regular season successes (with some non-success) without much to show post season.   One went out on an upswing, one on a down and a few other caveats... but it's not all that different.

[HowardsWorld]

You think that's bad look at the Iowa board. Pretty unnatural carnal knowledgeing pathetic.
https://iowa.forums.rivals.com/threads/what-do-you-expect-when-you-start-4-white-guys-our-b-ball-team-is-a-bigger-national-joke-than-our-fball-offense-both-f'n-pathetic.432669/#post-11701349

[jfp61]

Shaka is Texas's Wojo.

Except he was good at coaching. Shaka kept Justin Lewis right away. Wojo lost Deonte Burton after a few games. Shaka won straight away. Wojo didn't make the tournament until his 3rd season. Shaka has been able to recruit and have rosters with 12 scholarship players on them. Wojo hardly ever did that. Shaka was never crazy enough to start two 5'10" guards. Wojo did that for nearly an entire season. Shaka never recruited and played bad players to keep their brother happy. Wojo both recruited and played Wally. Shaka never made large promises to recruits. Wojo made promises all the time.

And finallly the AD and Shaka never saw eye to eye. Meanwhile at Marquette, the AD gives you his undivided attention. So much so that the AD was wiling to give wojo another year if he was willing to change his staff. Wojo refused. He kept a boosters kid on as a Program Assistant. He didn't fill his  staff with diserable and talented staff members that other BigEastSchools would want. Outside Justin Gainey and arguabbly Stan Johnson, wojo's staffs were rough.

[Jay Bee]

Our team has Wojo's fingerprints all over it. He largely designed this, and is winning when we win. #PraiseDue