MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on December 02, 2023, 01:32:52 PM
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1. No #1 regular season ranking any time soon for MU.
2. I knew it was going to be a long afternoon when they said that the officiating crew is the same one that worked the Northwestern Purdue game. They sucked in two consecutive games. Combined with Wiscy at the Kohl hole.
3. Wisconsin played like a vintage Bo Ryan team. Stayed in front of everybody, cut off passing lanes, cut off driving lanes. Craftily physical. Complaining on every call. Efficient on offense. A little Sparty flavor on defense, too. Presenting a large wall.
4. Rebounding hurt a lot. I look forward to future seasons with frontcourt depth.
5. Klesmit was Jean Felix today in the first half.
6. I want more Stevie Mitchell, less Chase Ross/Sean Jones/Tre Norman. I know this goes against the board zeitgeist (I've done it before), but to my eyes the team is better with him on the floor.
7. No quit. The hole was too deep. And the rebounds too few.
8. I think Wisconsin won the turnover battle. Well, MU not dominating it was a win for Wisconsin.
9. Wiscy won their super bowl
10. Let the other game dictate how the game is played, lose. Only thing to do now is learn, bounce back, and not let it become a losing streak.
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11. Jop would have pay someone for the rights to his NIL
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Back-to-back years where Marquette's worst performance of the season by a mile is Wisconsin. Sucks for now -- who cares in a month. Or three.
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Need more from the 4 spot. I know Shaka’s standing on the portal. But when you have a legitimate chance at a national title, you have to do everything you can to put the best roster out there. Ignoring the portal is not the best approach in that situation.
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Mr. High Steps =Bad Guy
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It's cliche, but Wisky wanted it more. Sure seemed better prepared. Executed way better. Played harder.
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Need more from the 4 spot. I know Shaka’s standing on the portal. But when you have a legitimate chance at a national title, you have to do everything you can to put the best roster out there. Ignoring the portal is not the best approach in that situation.
Think the portal would tell the team minutes are earned. Jop doesn't deserve to be out there
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11. Sean needs to turn down the open threes.
This is a bad loss - Bucky will more than likely end up as a bottom half Big 10 team.
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Back-to-back years where Marquette's worst performance of the season by a mile is Wisconsin. Sucks for now -- who cares in a month. Or three.
Nonsense.
The weaknesses that Gard exposed will resurface early in the tourney, as they did last year.
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(https://snipboard.io/9NKFoy.jpg)
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Shaka not being able to win this rivalry is becoming an issue for me.
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It's cliche, but Wisky wanted it more. Sure seemed better prepared. Executed way better. Played harder.
This is how I felt. They were very well coached for most of the game, we had them on the ropes and our coaching let us down. Hurst most cause it’s UW, hopefully they respond well vs Texas. David Joplin should never start.
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Nonsense.
The weaknesses that Gard exposed will resurface early in the tourney, as they did last year.
I support you on here! I'm the one looking after you, apologizing for your poor crack at bring a father. But please, redirect your energy away from these posts and towards your children. They still need you.
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It’s quite possible although hard to admit that maybe Wisconsin is a bit better than we all thought.
Not going to blame the refs one bit for this loss. The terrible effort on 50-50 balls, terrible 3 pt defense and terrible 3 pt shooting is why we lost. Joplin being 1-8 is basically 7 turnovers when he shot. Let’s move onto Texas
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Shaka HAS to reconsider transfer policy. Joplin clearly not worthy of starting role
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(https://snipboard.io/9NKFoy.jpg)
I could think of a fireable moderator offense right about now.
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Surprised no one brought it up, but the Maui hangover is real. Purdue/Tennessee/MU all lose their first road games after Maui, just like Arizona did a year ago.
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Shaka HAS to reconsider transfer policy. Joplin clearly not worthy of starting role
He needs to go back to the sixth man role.
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It’s quite possible although hard to admit that maybe Wisconsin is a bit better than we all thought.
Not going to blame the refs one bit for this loss. The terrible effort on 50-50 balls, terrible 3 pt defense and terrible 3 pt shooting is why we lost. Joplin being 1-8 is basically 7 turnovers when he shot. Let’s move onto Texas
Terrible 3 pt. defense? One guy got hot for one half and overall the Bagders shot 25% from 3. Hardly the problem.
Kolek, Oso, Joplin, and S. Jones were all far below average today = the problem
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Back-to-back years where Marquette's worst performance of the season by a mile is Wisconsin. Sucks for now -- who cares in a month. Or three.
I kind of care, basically my whole family (who all live in the Milwaukee area) are Badger fans, so I pretty much have to watch with them, and now when I’m invested in the team we have to lose every year to the critters.
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When we got it to a one possession game, early in the 2H we were beyond bad, almost indescribably bad. Kam missed two wide open looks but we basically never went to Oso the entire gane. We got terrible shots for the most part after a solid 4 mins. Tyko took over the Illnois game, he was very passive today.
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For an offensive philosophy that favors the three, there just aren’t enough shooters on this team.
And Ben’s awful defense means you can’t really ride with him either.
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You can’t lose this rivalry and disappoint in the NCAAs. Those two are mutually exclusive. Regardless of the rest of the regular season.
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Terrible 3 pt. defense? One guy got hot for one half and overall the Bagders shot 25% from 3. Hardly the problem.
Kolek, Oso, Joplin, and S. Jones were all far below average today = the problem
LOL, like Joplin hasn't shown you he's crap over and over and over and over and over again.
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Really concerning from Jop - something in his head right now ' hope he gets it sorted soon
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#6 is spot on, especially regarding Sean Jones. Shaka played him far too much today. He makes some flashly plays on offense but he is routinely out of position on D and really struggles with decision making on offense.
Stevie needs to play as many minutes as he can handle and Chase needs to stay out of foul trouble.
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I kind of care, basically my whole family (who all live in the Milwaukee area) are Badger fans, so I pretty much have to watch with them, and now when I’m invested in the team we have to lose every year to the critters.
If they're still bringing it up in three months it means you've won.
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So Wojo is the last Marquette coach to beat Wisconsin. After that performance I am almost, almost missing the guy.
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This team isn’t tough. They’re really good - but very soft. Never respond after a punch in the mouth
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So Wojo is the last Marquette coach to beat Wisconsin. After that performance I am almost, almost missing the guy.
Ummmm, no.
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So Wojo is the last Marquette coach to beat Wisconsin. After that performance I am almost, almost missing the guy.
Still not even close.
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warriorfred on a god posting run right now
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This team isn’t tough. They’re really good - but very soft. Never respond after a punch in the mouth
So you slept through the Illinois, UCLA, and Purdue games?
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This team isn’t tough. They’re really good - but very soft. Never respond after a punch in the mouth
This is incredibly stupid.
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This team isn’t tough. They’re really good - but very soft. Never respond after a punch in the mouth
UCLA?
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They responded against UCLA, Kansas, Purdue, Illinois. This team is tough. This team is small. And their lack of size was exposed.
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This is incredibly stupid.
Par for panda
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We're going to win a national championship, this isn't really a big deal.
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UCLA?
Marquette. Soft as hell style of play.
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Brook Lopez would be a great fit on this team.
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I think the team is incredibly tough, but when they are checked out, they are brutal and soft. Hopefully they raise both the effort and the consistency as the year progresses. They clearly have what it takes, they have to be in the fight as we are told
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Awful game. No one showed up aside from Kam.
Getting punched in the face isn't a bad thing, it just sucks it was against WI.
Confident the team will respond against Texas and in conference play.
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We're going to win a national championship, this isn't really a big deal.
Correct.
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Shaka not being able to win this rivalry is becoming an issue for me.
Why? Shaka always routes for his hometown college basketball team. He is a Madison guy all the way. Shaka is UWs trojan coach.
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Toughness? Where is the toughness you speak of?
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Brew …. Come ON !
You’re gonna mention a NC after that ?
I’m w / 5 dollar…. Going 0 - 3 v UW is a serious issue. Getting trounced makes it worse
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UCLA?
Playing on the road against a lesser team and got out toughed. Sorry
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Brew …. Come ON !
You’re gonna mention a NC after that ?
I’m w / 5 dollar…. Going 0 - 3 v UW is a serious issue. Getting trounced makes it worse
Yes. Because it's true. On April 8, the only thing Wisconsin will have over us is multiple angles to watch us cut nets because they'll be doing it from their couch.
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Rebounding was the killer, along with Klesmit first half. Just too many bigs on UW. Gold didn't play much because he is too slow for their bigs and all he did was foul them as they drived. Rafferty even mentioned it twice.
MU had 23. UW had 38. 7 to 15 on offensive, but UW was +16 on putbacks. Sixteen points off offensive rebounds. Ballgame.
Same with Purdue game, that putback by Edey was the dagger.
Joplin and Sean Jones going 1 for 12 from three didn't help either.
Many scoopers have said five MU players will be in NBA, didn't show that today. Bring on Texas who is a lot better than UW.
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The pre-game meal of Mackinac Island fudge should not be served ever again.
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We're going to win a national championship, this isn't really a big deal.
In 2077!
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We're going to win a national championship, this isn't really a big deal.
Too many flaws on this team to win 6 in a row come March.
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Playing on the road against a lesser team and got out toughed. Sorry
You posited that this team has “never responded to a punch in the mouth”.
I responded with a situation where they did.
You responded by changing the goalposts.
You lose - sorry.
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In 2077!
In 4 months.
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Too many flaws on this team to win 6 in a row come March.
You guys are pathetic. Remember when UConn lost seven times in conference play last season?
By all means, be upset today. But don't make it into more than it is.
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:P
For an offensive philosophy that favors the three, there just aren’t enough shooters on this team.
And Ben’s awful defense means you can’t really ride with him either.
+1000
Shaka needs to recruit shooters if this is how he wants to play.
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Yes. Because it's true. On April 8, the only thing Wisconsin will have over us is multiple angles to watch us cut nets because they'll be doing it from their couch.
If you slip the teen employee $10 at Dave and Busters he let's you cut nets on the "Hoop-a-Lot" machine.
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It’s quite possible although hard to admit that maybe Wisconsin is a bit better than we all thought.
Not going to blame the refs one bit for this loss. The terrible effort on 50-50 balls, terrible 3 pt defense and terrible 3 pt shooting is why we lost. Joplin being 1-8 is basically 7 turnovers when he shot. Let’s move onto Texas
His obsession with driving into nothing killed us. He can't create and becomes a black hole when he drives.
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You guys are pathetic. Remember when UConn lost seven times in conference play last season?
By all means, be upset today. But don't make it into more than it is.
The rebounding issues are what they are. And that's a big hurdle. But what's more concerning is that they don't have enough shooters to keep the defense honest.
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You guys are pathetic. Remember when UConn lost seven times in conference play last season?
By all means, be upset today. But don't make it into more than it is.
First time on scoop?
You aren't wrong, but rationality is always in short supply after a loss.
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Shaka not being able to win this rivalry is becoming an issue for me.
Agree!
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Nonsense.
The weaknesses that Gard exposed will resurface early in the tourney, as they did last year.
Agreed that was a great MU performance, whisky just that much better. LOL why is this f#cking lunatic alllwed to spam this board all day
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For an offensive philosophy that favors the three, there just aren’t enough shooters on this team.
And Ben’s awful defense means you can’t really ride with him either.
Your premise categorically incorrect.
The offensive philosophy favors dribble drives, cutting, and points in the paint. We hammered Kansas, UCLA, and Purdue in this category despite being significantly “out-sized” against all three.
The issue today was Wisconsin gameplanned against this by building a Toronto Raptors style wall and cutting off passing lanes while leaving our “shooters” naked. We played the style of basketball they wanted us to.
They also took away our other big strength of forcing turnovers and chaos to makeup for a lack of rebounding and second chance points. This has always been Wisconsin’s strength which unfortunately neutralizes Shaka’s style in this rivalry (at least for the past three years).
This is the exact type of team we have to learn to beat. Michigan State did not play too differently to beat us in the NCAAs. We will run into another team that plays this style of ball in the NCAAs if we think we’re winning a championship or going to a Final Four.
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(https://snipboard.io/9NKFoy.jpg)
Would Porter Moser be 3 & 0 right now?
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Agreed that was a great MU performance, whisky just that much better. LOL why is this f#cking lunatic alllwed to spam this board all day
He was actually a decent member 3 years ago then something happened. Mods won’t ban him though because of what happened
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You posited that this team has “never responded to a punch in the mouth”.
I responded with a situation where they did.
You responded by changing the goalposts.
You lose - sorry.
We did get out toughed big time today. You are right re ucla. These performances scare me for a potential march run
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Your premise categorically incorrect.
The offensive philosophy favors dribble drives, cutting, and points in the paint. We hammered Kansas, UCLA, and Purdue in this category despite being significantly “out-sized” against all three.
The issue today was Wisconsin gameplanned against this by building a Toronto Raptors style wall and cutting off passing lanes while leaving our “shooters” naked. We played the style of basketball they wanted us to.
They also took away our other big strength of forcing turnovers and chaos to makeup for a lack of rebounding and second chance points. This has always been Wisconsin’s strength which unfortunately neutralizes Shaka’s style in this rivalry (at least for the past three years).
This is the exact type of team we have to learn to beat. Michigan State did not play too differently to beat us in the NCAAs. We will run into another team that plays this style of ball in the NCAAs if we think we’re winning a championship or going to a Final Four.
Excellent post
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We did get out toughed big time today. You are right re ucla. These performances scare me for a potential march run
Agreed. “We’re gonna cut down nets” is cocky as unnatural carnal knowledge for a team that loses to teams built like this.
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Look, we're not beating good teams going
-15 on the glass and -14 in FTA's. I don't think we took a FT in the 2H and Whisky only had 2 fouls. The tenacity and poise were not there today for some reason. We can all take losing or being outplayed, but what we saw today mostly was that our team wasn't ready to play and our two leaders were essentially invisible. They hopefully will learn from this one.
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Highly over-rated at this point. The advertised growth by anyone not named Kolek, Oso, or Kam is non-existent. Rebounding effort must get way better or this team is not cutting any nets down anywhere.
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We did get out toughed big time today. You are right re ucla. These performances scare me for a potential march run
Agree. Out-toughed.
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Your premise categorically incorrect.
The offensive philosophy favors dribble drives, cutting, and points in the paint. We hammered Kansas, UCLA, and Purdue in this category despite being significantly “out-sized” against all three.
The issue today was Wisconsin gameplanned against this by building a Toronto Raptors style wall and cutting off passing lanes while leaving our “shooters” naked. We played the style of basketball they wanted us to.
They also took away our other big strength of forcing turnovers and chaos to makeup for a lack of rebounding and second chance points. This has always been Wisconsin’s strength which unfortunately neutralizes Shaka’s style in this rivalry (at least for the past three years).
This is the exact type of team we have to learn to beat. Michigan State did not play too differently to beat us in the NCAAs. We will run into another team that plays this style of ball in the NCAAs if we think we’re winning a championship or going to a Final Four.
Wow, you and I agree on what Wiscy did to beat MU today. You are coming around.
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Wow, you and I agree on what Wiscy did to beat MU today. You are coming around.
5dollar knows ball?
Enjoy your Saturday, Tower.
March is a long time from now.
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Your premise categorically incorrect.
The offensive philosophy favors dribble drives, cutting, and points in the paint. We hammered Kansas, UCLA, and Purdue in this category despite being significantly “out-sized” against all three.
The issue today was Wisconsin gameplanned against this by building a Toronto Raptors style wall and cutting off passing lanes while leaving our “shooters” naked. We played the style of basketball they wanted us to.
They also took away our other big strength of forcing turnovers and chaos to makeup for a lack of rebounding and second chance points. This has always been Wisconsin’s strength which unfortunately neutralizes Shaka’s style in this rivalry (at least for the past three years).
This is the exact type of team we have to learn to beat. Michigan State did not play too differently to beat us in the NCAAs. We will run into another team that plays this style of ball in the NCAAs if we think we’re winning a championship or going to a Final Four.
Great analysis. Marquette is not designed for slug-it-out games, and needs to rely on speed and dictating tempo . . . though I wouldn't mind a decent outside shooter on the roster.
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Shaka got out-coached today by Gard. Clear and simple. Watching the game you could see an exquisite game plan for which we had no answer in the first half.
Everybody learns from this, including Coach Shaka. The silver lining is this happened early in the season and will leave our guys with a sour taste in their mouth.
A return to a little bit of F@@k ‘em is a good thing!
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5dollar knows ball?
Enjoy your Saturday, Tower.
March is a long time from now.
We agree today. You enjoy yours, also.
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Despite Scoop's resident comedian's snarks, Shaka and Nevada have not beat a gap containment defense while at MU (Miss State, MSU, Badgers (3), Purdue (2)). Yes, that means mid-range has to be a viable option. They struggled at Texas too. Piss poor performance by the coaching staff.
As to shooting, it's a MAJOR concern despite no NBA arc stripes.
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Look, we're not beating good teams going
-15 on the glass and -14 in FTA's. I don't think we took a FT in the 2H and Whisky only had 2 fouls. The tenacity and poise were not there today for some reason. We can all take losing or being outplayed, but what we saw today mostly was that our team wasn't ready to play and our two leaders were essentially invisible. They hopefully will learn from this one.
You cannot continue to criticize the refs. MU was overly aggressive on defense today, ie Sean Jones. and Ross.
Rafferty made the comment that when the refs are calling it close and might have used the word ticky tacky, you have to back off little. MU did not make that adjustment and continued to be aggressive. Violence, violence, attack, attack. It bit them in the butt. You can also rewatch the game and see Ben Gold getting beat on the dribble drive to basket and fouling the shooter three times because of his slow feet.
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Despite Scoop's resident comedian's snarks, Shaka and Nevada have not beat a gap containment defense while at MU (Miss State, MSU, Badgers (3), Purdue (2)). Yes, that means mid-range has to be a viable option. They struggled at Texas too. Piss poor performance by the coaching staff.
As to shooting, it's a MAJOR concern despite no NBA arc stripes.
Yeah this sums up my thoughts completely.
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Look, we're not beating good teams going
-15 on the glass and -14 in FTA's. I don't think we took a FT in the 2H and Whisky only had 2 fouls. The tenacity and poise were not there today for some reason. We can all take losing or being outplayed, but what we saw today mostly was that our team wasn't ready to play and our two leaders were essentially invisible. They hopefully will learn from this one.
How many of the FTA came as the result of a legitimate foul by us 90 feet from the basket trying to rebound over a legal box out by Wisconsin?
Refs were ticky tack but not egregiously bad. We were outplayed and outcoached. Anything other than that as your main takeaway leaves us susceptible to this type of loss again and again in the future.
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How many of the FTA came as the result of a legitimate foul by us 90 feet from the basket trying to rebound over a legal box out by Wisconsin?
Refs were ticky tack but not egregiously bad. We were outplayed and outcoached. Anything other than that as your main takeaway leaves us susceptible to this type of loss again and again in the future.
The refs were pretty bad. In regards to the list of reasons why Marquette lost the game they're way down the list.
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Despite Scoop's resident comedian's snarks, Shaka and Nevada have not beat a gap containment defense while at MU (Miss State, MSU, Badgers (3), Purdue (2)). Yes, that means mid-range has to be a viable option. They struggled at Texas too. Piss poor performance by the coaching staff.
As to shooting, it's a MAJOR concern despite no NBA arc stripes.
UCLA plays that defense. There’s not a single BE team that plays that defense? We beat them all last year.
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I'm not well-versed in game mechanics, but man this reminded me a lot of the Michigan State game in the tourney. Going to need to find ways to beat teams with this play style.
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Rebounding will always be the rate limiting factor for us if we’re willing to play a half court game against a bigger team like Wisconsin. Marquette is a small team that becomes smaller when it plays soft. Wisconsin bully balled us today in the same manner Michigan State did last year and we didn’t have a response. There has to be a complete team commitment to rebounding the damn ball, it cannot just be on Oso to do it by himself.
Lastly for this team to meet its goals, Jop needs to figure things out quickly and find some measure of consistency. He simply cannot be a 9 pt, 3 board guy starting at the four when the depth behind him(Gold) is also inconsistent.
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I support you on here! I'm the one looking after you, apologizing for your poor crack at bring a father. But please, redirect your energy away from these posts and towards your children. They still need you.
You think this dude has had sex? HELL no.
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Ok we vented. Move on!
Next up!!!!
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Despite Scoop's resident comedian's snarks, Shaka and Nevada have not beat a gap containment defense while at MU (Miss State, MSU, Badgers (3), Purdue (2)). Yes, that means mid-range has to be a viable option. They struggled at Texas too. Piss poor performance by the coaching staff.
As to shooting, it's a MAJOR concern despite no NBA arc stripes.
Xavier plays this same defense and we beat them twice last year
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Too many flaws on this team to win 6 in a row come March.
12, I think you (unfortunately) are correct. Our inability to rebound at either end will likely kill us. Playing good D for 30 seconds and then having to do it another 20, and too often another 20 will wear us out. Second chance points killed us today. Shaka underemphasizes rebounds but the only team that can score is the one with the ball.
The other problem is too many 3's from people with little chance of making a reasonable percentage of them - shots like that basically equal a turnover.
I love this team and most nights the're fun to watch, but they don't seem to have the complete package.
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You think this dude has had sex? HELL no.
Not in a very long time, but it evidently happened on a couple of occasions!
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Yes. Because it's true. On April 8, the only thing Wisconsin will have over us is multiple angles to watch us cut nets because they'll be doing it from their couch.
Won't get past the 2nd round with rebounding like that...
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12, I think you (unfortunately) are correct. Our inability to rebound at either end will likely kill us. Playing good D for 30 seconds and then having to do it another 20, and too often another 20 will wear us out. Second chance points killed us today. Shaka underemphasizes rebounds but the only team that can score is the one with the ball.
The other problem is too many 3's from people with little chance of making a reasonable percentage of them - shots like that basically equal a turnover.
I love this team and most nights the're fun to watch, but they don't seem to have the complete package.
I think the inability to rebound is we mentally check out when the shot goes up or the ball hits the floor. It’s like my son says in soccer, it’s about the second ball. At least box out, at least keep an eye on the ball and your man, at least run someone over to get the ball if you have to
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I imagine the chances of this happening are remote but I hope Zaide can develop enough to get more minutes down the stretch this year. He has the frame, mindset and athleticism to help on the boards.
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I imagine the chances of this happening are remote but I hope Zaide can develop enough to get more minutes down the stretch this year. He has the frame, mindset and athleticism to help on the boards.
After the Southern game, many were praising Lowery and Amadou to extremes. With Ross and Gold in early foul trouble, Joplin in a funk and MU getting destroyed on boards, why didn't they get any minutes??
Tre Norman played like one minute, took an ill advised shot and was yanked never to be seen again.
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Everyone not named k Jones or gold was 2-18 from behind the arc. That's like 8th grade team bad. Sample size getting larger and % not moving in the right direction.
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I imagine the chances of this happening are remote but I hope Zaide can develop enough to get more minutes down the stretch this year. He has the frame, mindset and athleticism to help on the boards.
I am surprised he did not get a run, only player that has a nice looking shot
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13. Road games against rivals are difficult
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Watching some of the replays - thought Oso played way too high up on the floor...like the worst thing that could happen was a Crowl 3. I would have traded a couple of those for some more bodies around the basket.
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Really concerning from Jop - something in his head right now ' hope he gets it sorted soon
??? He’s the same guy he’s always been.
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Xavier plays this same defense and we beat them twice last year
Miller changed his coaching philosophies in his year off. Higher tempo games on offense and more of a funnel defense versus pack line that he used before.
Last year was Millet's highest tempo team (elite offense, meh defense). X wasn't really playing a gap containment defense (although granted there are tenants to pack line). Tyler was having his way against them mostly last season (even in the 1st half of the X loss).
Whereas Tyler has yet to have a good game against Wisconsin. Those other teams are putting up the picket fence against MU which is why TKo was so frustrated again.
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??? He’s the same guy he’s always been.
I must have been watching a different game then - in the one I saw most of his misses were terrible- even w decently open looks. The shot doesn't go that far off, that often if you're just having a night where they don't fall
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I must have been watching a different game then - in the one I saw most of his misses were terrible- even w decently open looks. The shot doesn't go that far off, that often if you're just having a night where they don't fall
I'm not really worried about his shot. I am worried about this idea he has that he has a dribble drive game. That hurt us far more than. his shot.
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How many timeouts did Shaka bank today? Seriously, when you have guys that have to play as many minutes as we do, why not give them a blow now and then? Today it certainly wouldn't have disrupted our game flow, as if we had one for all except 8 minutes.
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Shaka not being able to win this rivalry is becoming an issue for me.
A majority of Marquette’s enrollment is from out of state. This game doesn’t mean much for most involved.
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Your premise categorically incorrect.
The offensive philosophy favors dribble drives, cutting, and points in the paint. We hammered Kansas, UCLA, and Purdue in this category despite being significantly “out-sized” against all three.
The issue today was Wisconsin gameplanned against this by building a Toronto Raptors style wall and cutting off passing lanes while leaving our “shooters” naked. We played the style of basketball they wanted us to.
They also took away our other big strength of forcing turnovers and chaos to makeup for a lack of rebounding and second chance points. This has always been Wisconsin’s strength which unfortunately neutralizes Shaka’s style in this rivalry (at least for the past three years).
This is the exact type of team we have to learn to beat. Michigan State did not play too differently to beat us in the NCAAs. We will run into another team that plays this style of ball in the NCAAs if we think we’re winning a championship or going to a Final Four.
<sigh> Your lack of basketball knowledge is frustrating, but not surprising.
Yes they want points in the paint. But they also want threes when the defense clogs the lane. And they just don't have the shooters to make good defensive teams pay.
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He was actually a decent member 3 years ago then something happened. Mods won’t ban him though because of what happened
Because MU hired a black head coach. He's been quite clear about it.
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Because MU hired a black head coach. He's been quite clear about it.
Broken brain
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<sigh> Your lack of basketball knowledge is frustrating, but not surprising.
Yes they want points in the paint. But they also want threes when the defense clogs the lane. And they just don't have the shooters to make good defensive teams pay.
When the offense is humming, we are scoring in the paint off dribble drives from Kam, Jones, TK, dribble handoffs from Oso, and hard cuts from Ross, Joplin, and Mitchell.
This is not a Mike Budenholzer 5 out team. We are not built to bury you from deep.
Would it be nice if we had more consistency from the open guys in the corner when Option A is taken away? (Looking at you Stevie, Sean Jones, Joplin). Absolutely. But that doesn’t make us a team with an offensive philosophy built around three point shooting as you originally suggested.
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When the offense is humming, we are scoring in the paint off dribble drives from Kam, Jones, TK, dribble handoffs from Oso, and hard cuts from Ross, Joplin, and Mitchell.
This is not a Mike Budenholzer 5 out team. We are not built to bury you from deep.
Would it be nice if we had more consistency from the open guys in the corner when Option A is taken away? (Looking at you Stevie, Sean Jones, Joplin). Absolutely. But that doesn’t make us a team with an offensive philosophy built around three point shooting as you originally suggested.
No kidding they aren't built to bury you from deep. That's the whole point. Their philosophy is built around scoring in the lane AND from deep. Good defenses (like MSU last year and UW today) can take one of those things away. Marquette can't consistently make them pay for that.
From the Athletic. Read the whole thing, but I quoted below.
https://theathletic.com/4052114/2023/01/03/marquette-shaka-smart-tyler-kolek/
"Smart hired Nevada Smith, a former Division III and G League coach known for playing fast and shooting a ton of 3s, as Texas’ director of program development. (The first team Smith coached in the G League shot 45.4 3s and just one mid-range attempt per game.) Smart also connected with Northwest Missouri State coach Ben McCollum, a name sent to him when he was looking to replace an assistant coach. McCollum had already won two Division II national titles — he’s since won two more — and his teams were scoring at historically efficient rates. Smart told McCollum he should remain a head coach, but he still wanted to learn from him."
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When was the last time we got court stormed?
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When was the last time we got court stormed?
Funny This may be the first time. Unless court storming was a thing in the 70s
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Par for panda
Shouldn’t you be watching msnbc now ?
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Funny This may be the first time. Unless court storming was a thing in the 70s
I remember East Carolina stormed after beating a top 10 MU in 2003
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Was the season over?
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One game. Clean some stuff up. Eyes on Texas and move forward.
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Over impressed with themselves?- young persons disease.
Read the hype and believe it…. Gotta prove it might in and night out. Otherwise you gotta be changing fecal stain bed linen way too often.
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It’s always tough losing, especially to Wisconsin. But this week a lot of good ranked teams have been losing. Duke lost to Georgia Tech today. As frustrated as I am about today’s game, Shaka will make some adjustments and we will move forward. There’s a long season left in a lot of games to play. We will be fine.
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There are some pretty amazing stats in this one. How about the fact that no one on Whisky hit a 3 other than Klesmit and they had zero in tbe 2H.
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Shaka says.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_104WL-A_Co
Time to be a big boy.
Just play harder...
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It’s always tough losing, especially to Wisconsin. But this week a lot of good ranked teams have been losing. Duke lost to Georgia Tech today. As frustrated as I am about today’s game, Shaka will make some adjustments and we will move forward. There’s a long season left in a lot of games to play. We will be fine.
Kentucky also lost at Home to a freakin no name cup cake
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Kentucky also lost at Home to a freakin no name cup cake
It feels like they do that every year. But I'm not really keeping track.
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They did at least year.
Can’t forget the s h it storm the fans raised after that one.
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I kind of care, basically my whole family (who all live in the Milwaukee area) are Badger fans, so I pretty much have to watch with them, and now when I’m invested in the team we have to lose every year to the critters.
last season worked out ok in terms of the RED hoard trash talk since we won the BE, BE tourney and had a high tournament seed to their bottom feeder conf finish and NIT. Hopefully we can duplicate a year ago, only better. Otherwise, the December’24 rematch is a long 12 months away (would love to play them again in March in the tournament, if the ncaa would gift us that).
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Despite Scoop's resident comedian's snarks, Shaka and Nevada have not beat a gap containment defense while at MU (Miss State, MSU, Badgers (3), Purdue (2)). Yes, that means mid-range has to be a viable option. They struggled at Texas too. Piss poor performance by the coaching staff.
As to shooting, it's a MAJOR concern despite no NBA arc stripes.
This is exactly the point. There are teams with prevailing philosophies (and the ability to execute) who can beat MU if MU doesn't make some adjustments. Simply tell Kam and Kokel that open mid-range jumpers are OK when there is a wall preventing the drive and suddenly the game changes.
The shooters not shooting well makes it even worse. Maybe even Jop heats up if he hits the forbidden 15 footer. I know the metrics say these are bad shots. I'd rather win with bad shots than lose with 3's and layups. How did 'nova win so many tournament games? Guards who can hit floaters and mid-range jumpers. It's not something for every game because MU's prevailing style is going to beat 95% of teams. Problem is we need to beat 100% to win the NCAA tournament.
As for Jop - he probably needs a game or two of 10-15 minutes off the bench against the other team's reserves to see if he can get his game back. Gold played like crap today and he outplayed Jop... and it's the 3rd game in a row like that.
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This is exactly the point. There are teams with prevailing philosophies (and the ability to execute) who can beat MU if MU doesn't make some adjustments. Simply tell Kam and Kokel that open mid-range jumpers are OK when there is a wall preventing the drive and suddenly the game changes.
The shooters not shooting well makes it even worse. Maybe even Jop heats up if he hits the forbidden 15 footer. I know the metrics say these are bad shots. I'd rather win with bad shots than lose with 3's and layups. How did 'nova win so many tournament games? Guards who can hit floaters and mid-range jumpers. It's not something for every game because MU's prevailing style is going to beat 95% of teams. Problem is we need to beat 100% to win the NCAA tournament.
As for Jop - he probably needs a game or two of 10-15 minutes off the bench against the other team's reserves to see if he can get his game back. Gold played like crap today and he outplayed Jop... and it's the 3rd game in a row like that.
Exactly correct
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We are so far, far from the elite offensively efficient team we were last year. Combined with poor rebounding - Shaka said today UW got 52% of their offensive rebounds versus our 18% - combined with poor free throw shooting and overall poor shooting this year, it makes for tough games. Shaka and the team will clean up some of this - try Lowery in there to try to get some deflections and rebounds. Go Marquette!
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Sobering game. Wake up call. Success last year does not guarantee success this year.
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You cannot continue to criticize the refs. MU was overly aggressive on defense today, ie Sean Jones. and Ross.
Rafferty made the comment that when the refs are calling it close and might have used the word ticky tacky, you have to back off little. MU did not make that adjustment and continued to be aggressive. Violence, violence, attack, attack. It bit them in the butt. You can also rewatch the game and see Ben Gold getting beat on the dribble drive to basket and fouling the shooter three times because of his slow feet.
I'm not blaming the refs. We were outplayed and didn't attack the rim.
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I'm not blaming the refs. We were outplayed and didn't attack the rim.
Officiating was not great, but we also played like crap.
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Officiating was not great, but we also played like crap.
No doubt. The only good news is that we have a ranked opponent coming into Fiserv on Wednesday and a win will perhaps assuage some of our worries.
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Officiating was not great, but we also played like crap.
Badgers having two 2nd half fouls is an absolute joke. It isn’t why we lost at all, but that is a sh!t job officiating.
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Badgers having two 2nd half fouls is an absolute joke. It isn’t why we lost at all, but that is a sh!t job officiating.
When Mr High Steps Ref has our games it is very difficult to win
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Didn't get to watch the game but it never looked in doubt judging from the box score. Maui hangover is real. Texas is almost a must win if we want to claim back any elite status.
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Will be fun to see how Marquette bounces back.
Rise to the challenge.
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Had visitors and watched this morning. I predicted we would lose this game in the preseason poll and I am not surprised. I'm pretty sure I said the same thing last year. Wisconsin is Shaka's kryptonite. We are weak rebounders, they are strong rebounders. We thrive on turnovers, they don't turn the ball over. They clogged the middle and played Kolek as a scorer, always having someone on the situational hand of the penetrator, forcing him to pass or take a very tough shot and the only people they left open on the perimeter were our weak shooters.
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Shaka says.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_104WL-A_Co
Time to be a big boy.
Just play harder...
I watched this again. Shaka says what he thinks is wrong with the team pretty clearly.
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Bad loss in all a lot of ways. Really nothing positive about the game itself. The positive was having a great time with my youngest son. Spent most of the day with him and that was enjoyable. Other than that, no real silver linings, IMO.
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No kidding they aren't built to bury you from deep. That's the whole point. Their philosophy is built around scoring in the lane AND from deep. Good defenses (like MSU last year and UW today) can take one of those things away. Marquette can't consistently make them pay for that.
From the Athletic. Read the whole thing, but I quoted below.
https://theathletic.com/4052114/2023/01/03/marquette-shaka-smart-tyler-kolek/
"Smart hired Nevada Smith, a former Division III and G League coach known for playing fast and shooting a ton of 3s, as Texas’ director of program development. (The first team Smith coached in the G League shot 45.4 3s and just one mid-range attempt per game.) Smart also connected with Northwest Missouri State coach Ben McCollum, a name sent to him when he was looking to replace an assistant coach. McCollum had already won two Division II national titles — he’s since won two more — and his teams were scoring at historically efficient rates. Smart told McCollum he should remain a head coach, but he still wanted to learn from him."
Just to close the loop on this… From Steele’s post-mortem this morning (great piece):
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"You don't predetermine the number of threes you are going to take," Smart said. "I think we played a game recently where we only shot in the low teens.
"So it's really based on the way that you're guarded. We shot (29), I'd take about 20-something of those. I'd say a handful of those were forced that we really should have passed the ball.”
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Seems to me Shaka thinks we were baited into taking more threes than the offense is designed because of the way we were guarded. He would’ve passed out of a third of those threes?
Guess Sultan thinks he knows Shaka’s offense better than he does?
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Watch the presser. Lots of good stuff there.
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When Mr High Steps Ref has our games it is very difficult to win
i don't remember seeing shaka as animated as he was in 2nd half going at it with anderson and that says A LOT!!
makes one wonder if andy went to the tim donaghy school of how to become rich n famous on the budget of a basketball ref
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Time to be a big boy.
Just play harder...
Yes. Other than the first 8 minutes of the 2H, there was so little energy and passion. Very little pressure on the perimeter/ball handler. Strange they were so flat.
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Don’t you think Wisconsin had something to do w that? That’s a top 25 team playing at home.
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Just to close the loop on this… From Steele’s post-mortem this morning (great piece):
————————————————
"You don't predetermine the number of threes you are going to take," Smart said. "I think we played a game recently where we only shot in the low teens.
"So it's really based on the way that you're guarded. We shot (29), I'd take about 20-something of those. I'd say a handful of those were forced that we really should have passed the ball.”
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Seems to me Shaka thinks we were baited into taking more threes than the offense is designed because of the way we were guarded. He would’ve passed out of a third of those threes?
Guess Sultan thinks he knows Shaka’s offense better than he does?
WTF are you talking about? I agree with everything Shaka is saying and that's the point. If he thinks they only forced a handful, and was fine with 20+ of them, Marquette IMO doesn't have the shooters to shoot 20 a game.
If threes are going to be an important part of this offense, and they most definitely are, then they are going to need more consistent shooters.
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Don’t you think Wisconsin had something to do w that? That’s a top 25 team playing at home.
Do I think Wisconsin had something to do with MU not playing with passion and energy? No. Do I think Wisconsin played with more passion and energy? Yes. Control what you can control.
"It's their Super Bowl" is cliche and dismissive, but if you watch Wahl both last year and this, he clearly wanted it more than any MU player wanted it.
I also thought he was great as Rolf in The Sound of Music.
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FWIW, MU was 23/55 from the field and UW was 23/54. MU made two more 3s so outscored UW from the field by 2. Whether the officiating was good or bad, UW played more “aggressive”, etc., UW won because they made 13 more free throws than MU attempted.
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Badgers having two 2nd half fouls is an absolute joke. It isn’t why we lost at all, but that is a sh!t job officiating.
We lost because we are small, could not rebound and were awful from 3. Refs excuse is a cop out. We were outplayed.
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FWIW, MU was 23/55 from the field and UW was 23/54. MU made two more 3s so outscored UW from the field by 2. Whether the officiating was good or bad, UW played more “aggressive”, etc., UW won because they made 13 more free throws than MU attempted.
Of the four factors, Wisconsin won the free throw rate and the offensive rebound rate by a large margin.
Marquette actually had a better eFG. They were basically even from a turnover rate perspective.
Marquette's defense was much better in the second half because they stopped doubling the ball. They just didn't get enough flow on the offensive end.
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Yes. Other than the first 8 minutes of the 2H, there was so little energy and passion. Very little pressure on the perimeter/ball handler. Strange they were so flat.
yes, i completely agree with you(for a change) and i think the refs took them out of their game. i hesitate to use that as an excuse because that's where shaka needs to refocus them, get a technical, put zaire, amadou, norman in to shake things up this is where many times you see an unsung hero arrive
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Just watched the game this morning.
Obviously didn’t shoot well. In “big” games like that, I think Kolek has to have the mindset that he is going to shoot if open. He passed up about 5 open looks. Would have had to get them off quickly but they were open nonetheless. We will need him to do this to be a final four team. An open TK three is better than an open Sean Jones three. And I’m not giving up on Sean Jones at all.
Oso only had one jump hook and that was in the second half. He had plenty of drives to the middle of the lane but would not rise and fire. He needs to be more aggressive offensively for MU to play its best basketball.
Kam obviously did his job. We are going to miss him when he leaves. Needs to keep it up to be a final four team.
Joplin had an off shooting night shooting threes but never put his head down and kept taking them. Loved that he hit a three in the second half. He just needs to understand that he cannot create his own shot. All his shots must come off assists with open threes and good cuts to the basket only. Not athletic enough to drive to the hoop, ride and fire. The rising part just is not there. I wouldn’t mind him taking open mid range shots from him dribbling around a defender flying at him at the three point line and then stopping and popping. Maybe Shaka can make an exception for him only. Not worried about him going forward, just needs to stop driving in the lane.
Would like to see Ross bust out offensively more. Foul trouble killed him. But still waiting all year for it.
The other guys just have to keep doing what they are doing and get better over the course of the season. Hopefully the 3 point percentage goes up.
Rebounding issues will be there all year but MUs strengths on defense and offense will mitigate that in most games.
I’m not concerned about the loss at Wisconsin. I thought they would win but it was a wake up call and it probably came at the right time.
Can’t wait for the Texas game. Go MU!