MUScoop

I can't decide who should be the 6th man for this team. It feels like Shaka wants it to be Joplin, but I can't tell if Joplin actually wants it. Apparently, he did play fantastic in the Mizzou scrimmages earlier this fall, but if he shoots like he did last night I don't see his minutes going up. Sean Jones obviously had hype, but how much of him is just a highlight player? He seems to be a little out of control, could just be a learning curve for the freshman. Then, Chase Ross, who in my opinion looked like the best out of the 3 last night. He played maturely and knew his rotations on defense. He has my vote.

One game at a time.   It will reveal itself.

I think it's been one game. I also think that Joplin will have night last night and he will also have nights were he scores 28 in 30 minutes. Jones I think will see his minutes rise throughout the season. Ross I think will settle into 10-15 minutes off the bench role.

I also wouldn't count out Wrightsil yet. Transfers always have an adjustment period and he missed a lot of the offseason due to injury. Maybe he never gets there but it's too early to say.

Based on 1 game-It's Ross but I do feel like Joplin is much better than what he showed last night. Him and Wrightsil showed literally nothing.

Chase Ross looked very composed last night and I thought in this one game he looked to be the best "6th man."  But one game is not exactly a good sample size.

Sean Jones showed some serious flashes of skill and I'm looking forward to the player he becomes.  Last night though he looked exactly like you'd expect a freshman to be: young and nervous in their first game.  It was very evident when he was at the line.  This should take care of itself with a few more games under his belt and as the season progresses.

I saw huge improvement on Joplins defense from last year.  Is her perfect yet, clearly not... but the rotations and where he is on the floor was a HUGE leap.  Now let's see him hit some of those shots!

I'm officially starting the Chase Ross fan club.  Bold prediction:  Honestly saw all I needed to see to say that he's the best looking freshman guard prospect at MU that I recall in a long time - perhaps since Jerel/Wes.  The physical skills are there - strength, athleticism - and he was really poised for a freshman playing in his first college basketball game.  His defense was really good last night too.

He's going to force his way to a 20-25 minute role per game.

Ross looks a lot better than I thought he would look. I think he'll be pretty consistent and solid this year overall. I think he fits in well anywhere from 2-4 and will be good for small ball when Oso is in foul trouble. Jones and Joplin will have more better individual games but also more terrible games mixed in. Expecting Wrightsil to be just more of a role player, which is fine.

Quote from: UWW2MU on November 08, 2022, 11:08:20 AM
I saw huge improvement on Joplins defense from last year.  Is her perfect yet, clearly not... but the rotations and where he is on the floor was a HUGE leap.  Now let's see him hit some of those shots!

The steal was nice, but I'll disagree that Jop's defense looked better. He was out of position a couple of times last night. Once Kam literally had to push him into position because he had picked up the wrong man in transition. But like you said earlier in your post, one game sample size. Doesn't mean he hasn't improved, I just don't think he showed it last night.

Quote from: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on November 08, 2022, 10:43:36 AM
I think it's been one game. I also think that Joplin will have night last night and he will also have nights were he scores 28 in 30 minutes. Jones I think will see his minutes rise throughout the season. Ross I think will settle into 10-15 minutes off the bench role.

I also wouldn't count out Wrightsil yet. Transfers always have an adjustment period and he missed a lot of the offseason due to injury. Maybe he never gets there but it's too early to say.

Night(s) plural? Multiple 28pt games from Joplin? I'll take under .5 28pt games from Joplin this season. I agree with your overall point that he'll be hot/cold throughout the season and I'm still optimistic about him this season. Wish he would try to be more versatile on offense instead of just a spot-up shooter.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 08, 2022, 11:10:51 AM
I'm officially starting the Chase Ross fan club.  Bold prediction:  Honestly saw all I needed to see to say that he's the best looking freshman guard prospect at MU that I recall in a long time - perhaps since Jerel/Wes.  The physical skills are there - strength, athleticism - and he was really poised for a freshman playing in his first college basketball game.  His defense was really good last night too.

He's going to force his way to a 20-25 minute role per game.

Kam Jones? 1st Team All Big East Freshman

Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on November 08, 2022, 11:49:13 AM
Kam Jones? 1st Team All Big East Freshman

Good point.   8-)  But from my perspective Ross is a physical specimen already, was disruptive defensively, and played a really poised/sound floor game. Kam, definitely more gifted offensively at this stage.  Projecting long term Ross looks like the kind of player that could develop into an NBAer. 

Quote from: LAZER on November 08, 2022, 11:47:30 AM
Night(s) plural? Multiple 28pt games from Joplin? I'll take under .5 28pt games from Joplin this season. I agree with your overall point that he'll be hot/cold throughout the season and I'm still optimistic about him this season. Wish he would try to be more versatile on offense instead of just a spot-up shooter.

Well if you include the scrimmages, you already lost on your bet.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 08, 2022, 11:10:51 AM
I'm officially starting the Chase Ross fan club.  Bold prediction:  Honestly saw all I needed to see to say that he's the best looking freshman guard prospect at MU that I recall in a long time - perhaps since Jerel/Wes.  The physical skills are there - strength, athleticism - and he was really poised for a freshman playing in his first college basketball game.  His defense was really good last night too.

He's going to force his way to a 20-25 minute role per game.

I mean come on.  You can not like how the guy played or how he was allowed to play by the coach, but Chase Ross looks not even remotely close to as good as Markus Howard did as a freshman.

Quote from: wadesworld on November 08, 2022, 12:06:39 PM
I mean come on.  You can not like how the guy played or how he was allowed to play by the coach, but Chase Ross looks not even remotely close to as good as Markus Howard did as a freshman.

Chase Ross reminded me of Dwyane Wade

Ross reminds me of Joe Chapman but with DJO athleticism.

Good defender, good spot up shooter, and a real threat as a transition finisher.  A lot to build off of.

Quote from: Juan Anderson's Mixtape on November 08, 2022, 12:08:30 PM
Ross reminds me of Joe Chapman but with DJO athleticism.

Did you just put them in a blender?

Quote from: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on November 08, 2022, 12:02:13 PM
Well if you include the scrimmages, you already lost on your bet.

Definitely not counting scrimmages!

Quote from: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on November 08, 2022, 11:42:40 AM
The steal was nice, but I'll disagree that Jop's defense looked better. He was out of position a couple of times last night. Once Kam literally had to push him into position because he had picked up the wrong man in transition. But like you said earlier in your post, one game sample size. Doesn't mean he hasn't improved, I just don't think he showed it last night.

Agreed, and on another occasion he did the point to his guy for a teammate to guard only to stand and do nothing and guard no one himself. He is out of position a lot and doesn't seem to have the scrappy gene to get back into a good spot on the floor. I know it's early, but there doesn't seem to be a drive. Even Wrightsil and Gold showed spark. I hope I am wrong that Joplin doesn't have it.

Can i choose a healthy Emarion Ellis? He looks nearly 6'8" now.

Quote from: tower912 on November 08, 2022, 10:42:27 AM
One game at a time.   It will reveal itself.

Man, I just finished a good long laugh at that one. You know you're on Scoop, right?

Quote from: wadesworld on November 08, 2022, 12:06:39 PM
I mean come on.  You can not like how the guy played or how he was allowed to play by the coach, but Chase Ross looks not even remotely close to as good as Markus Howard did as a freshman.

Stop it! Just because in his freshman year Markus shot 55% from 3, had multiple 20+ point games, and came up huge down the stretch as we won 4 of 5 to make the NCAAs (18.8 ppg, 69%!! from 3) ... and just because he went on to be a two-time All-American who led us to 3 NCAA tournaments in 4 seasons ... don't ever forget he was a Wojo guy, therefore pure evil and a total failure.

No Arby's ?????

Quote from: wadesworld on November 08, 2022, 12:06:39 PM
I mean come on.  You can not like how the guy played or how he was allowed to play by the coach, but Chase Ross looks not even remotely close to as good as Markus Howard did as a freshman.

When you compare John Dawson to Magic Johnson, anything is possible.

Quote from: rocky_warrior on November 08, 2022, 12:14:04 PM
Did you just put them in a blender?

Yes...yes, I did...put them in...a blender.

Quote from: Newsdreams on November 08, 2022, 02:20:39 PM
No Arby's ?????

https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/south/2022/11/08/iconic-cudahy-arbys-hat-sign-saved-from-dumpster-to-be-restored-milwaukee-wisconsin/69629019007/ (https://www.jsonline.com/story/communities/south/2022/11/08/iconic-cudahy-arbys-hat-sign-saved-from-dumpster-to-be-restored-milwaukee-wisconsin/69629019007/)
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2022/11/08/PMJS/b62886cc-a034-4813-aba2-4e3f8ef6a7c0-ArbysSignDistance.jpg?width=660&height=495&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp)

Quote from: wadesworld on November 08, 2022, 12:06:39 PM
I mean come on.  You can not like how the guy played or how he was allowed to play by the coach, but Chase Ross looks not even remotely close to as good as Markus Howard did as a freshman.

As you like to say Wades:  Chase is a "dude."  Markus was a prolific scorer, marginal (at best) defender, and quite frankly, pretty selfish. 

Quote from: Sultan Sultanberger on November 08, 2022, 02:27:07 PM
When you compare John Dawson to Magic Johnson, anything is possible.

Haha.  Sultan trying to make the same joke that has been made 100s of times here.  Time for some new material.  But, you are a prodigious user of the search function.  Please place the quote from the past where I  said anything like John Dawson was as good as Magic Johnson.  Saying a guy makes some Magic Johnson like passes - as in no look passes/creative passing doesn't mean one is saying he'll be as good, etc.

By the way, I was early here to say Jamal Cain had NBA potential/prospects and the same handful of Projos ridiculed that projection.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 08, 2022, 03:54:08 PM
As you like to say Wades:  Chase is a "dude."  Markus was a prolific scorer, marginal (at best) defender, and quite frankly, pretty selfish. 

It continues to baffle me that people will continue to rip on the most accomplished player we have had around here in awhile. Most fanbases would trip over themselves to laud a guy who put in four years for their program, ended as its leading scorer and was a consensus all-American their senior year.  And did so while being an absolutely wonderful representative of the school.

But our fanbase labels such a guy as "selfish" and proclaims that a freshman who has played a grand total of 21 minutes is a better player. ::)

Not to mention that this type of comparison is horribly unfair to Chase Ross. Let the guy play. If he ends up a better player, that would be wonderful. But if he doesn't, I hope he makes his mark. Making such predictions now is beyond silly.

Quote from: TAMU, the Wizard of MU Basketball on November 08, 2022, 11:42:40 AM
The steal was nice, but I'll disagree that Jop's defense looked better. He was out of position a couple of times last night. Once Kam literally had to push him into position because he had picked up the wrong man in transition. But like you said earlier in your post, one game sample size. Doesn't mean he hasn't improved, I just don't think he showed it last night.

Jop definitely still got out of position, but last year it felt like every possession and he looked absolutely lost.  This year seemed more confident and only got out of position at times.   At least to my very untrained eye.

Quote from: Sultan Sultanberger on November 08, 2022, 04:10:43 PM

It continues to baffle me that people will continue to rip on the most accomplished player we have had around here in awhile. Most fanbases would trip over themselves to laud a guy who put in four years for their program, ended as its leading scorer and was a consensus all-American their senior year.  And did so while being an absolutely wonderful representative of the school.

I have no problem with Howard as a person or player but there is some nuance to this rhetoric. Some would argue that the system that allowed for his amazing individual accomplishments was actually a net negative  for the program overall.

Quote from: Sultan Sultanberger on November 08, 2022, 04:10:43 PM

It continues to baffle me that people will continue to rip on the most accomplished player we have had around here in awhile. Most fanbases would trip over themselves to laud a guy who put in four years for their program, ended as its leading scorer and was a consensus all-American their senior year.  And did so while being an absolutely wonderful representative of the school.

But our fanbase labels such a guy as "selfish" and proclaims that a freshman who has played a grand total of 21 minutes is a better player. ::)

Not to mention that this type of comparison is horribly unfair to Chase Ross. Let the guy play. If he ends up a better player, that would be wonderful. But if he doesn't, I hope he makes his mark. Making such predictions now is beyond silly.

Ahh..I didn't compare Chase to Markus.  Compared him to Jerel/Wes, as the best Freshman prospect.  Markus was a fantastic scorer. Prolific.  But, you'd think as a two-time All-American and the program's leading scorer - he'd have been able to stick on an NBA roster if he was such an amazing prospect.  I'm projecting out to the NBA...

Btw - Predictions are fun to make. We all speculate a lot here.  It's part of scooping.  But, thanks for being the no fun police for Scoop Sultan! 

Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 08, 2022, 04:51:50 PM
Ahh..I didn't compare Chase to Markus.  Compared him to Jerel/Wes, as the best Freshman prospect.  Markus was a fantastic scorer. Prolific.  But, you'd think as a two-time All-American and the program's leading scorer - he'd have been able to stick on an NBA roster if he was such an amazing prospect.  I'm projecting out to the NBA...

Btw - Predictions are fun to make. We all speculate a lot here.  It's part of scooping.  But, thanks for being the no fun police for Scoop Sultan!

I forgot how much NBA success Jerel McNeal had.  All 36 career minutes.  Markus only had 10x that.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 08, 2022, 04:51:50 PM
Ahh..I didn't compare Chase to Markus.  Compared him to Jerel/Wes, as the best Freshman prospect.  Markus was a fantastic scorer. Prolific.  But, you'd think as a two-time All-American and the program's leading scorer - he'd have been able to stick on an NBA roster if he was such an amazing prospect.  I'm projecting out to the NBA...

Btw - Predictions are fun to make. We all speculate a lot here.  It's part of scooping.  But, thanks for being the no fun police for Scoop Sultan!

I don't have a dog in this fight but maybe look at it objectively and think "oh at 5'10" (generously) maybe there's a reason a scorer like him played four years as opposed to leaving as a sophomore or junior"

I'd say playing 1.5 NBA seasons is an accomplishment for a guy who's short enough to lie about his height on tinder

Quote from: Sultan Sultanberger on November 08, 2022, 04:10:43 PM

It continues to baffle me that people will continue to rip on the most accomplished player we have had around here in awhile. Most fanbases would trip over themselves to laud a guy who put in four years for their program, ended as its leading scorer and was a consensus all-American their senior year.  And did so while being an absolutely wonderful representative of the school.

But our fanbase labels such a guy as "selfish" and proclaims that a freshman who has played a grand total of 21 minutes is a better player. ::)

Not to mention that this type of comparison is horribly unfair to Chase Ross. Let the guy play. If he ends up a better player, that would be wonderful. But if he doesn't, I hope he makes his mark. Making such predictions now is beyond silly.

I think the Howard haters are less than 1% of the hardcore fan base.  Most recognize that he was a special scoring guard who gave his all for Marquette, is the MU scoring leader by far and a two time all American.   

If we start having NCAA tournament success again, the bitterness toward the Wojo era will fade.  When it does even the less than 1% will give him his due.  Wojo was the problem, not Markus.   His recruiting/retention and coaching errors submarined what should have been undeniably, inarguably great MU career.  Despite our lack of post season success, I believe he made four years of the Wojo era more palatable than it would have been otherwise.

Chase Ross looks like he's going to be a BEAST!!

Having said that, he's never going to shoot like Markus Howard.  Shooters like Markus are few and far between.

But Ross has an exceptional physicality that will already play well in the Big East.  Can't wait to watch him develop into a complete player.

Quote from: CountryRoads on November 08, 2022, 04:47:22 PM
I have no problem with Howard as a person or player but there is some nuance to this rhetoric. Some would argue that the system that allowed for his amazing individual accomplishments was actually a net negative  for the program overall.

And that's Howard's fault how?

Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 08, 2022, 04:51:50 PM
Ahh..I didn't compare Chase to Markus.  Compared him to Jerel/Wes, as the best Freshman prospect.  Markus was a fantastic scorer. Prolific.  But, you'd think as a two-time All-American and the program's leading scorer - he'd have been able to stick on an NBA roster if he was such an amazing prospect.  I'm projecting out to the NBA...

Btw - Predictions are fun to make. We all speculate a lot here.  It's part of scooping.  But, thanks for being the no fun police for Scoop Sultan! 

You should try being less sensitive for once.

Shooter

As you know, I was not a Howard or Wojo guy, but I hold no bad feelings towards Howard. He was not might type of player, but that is my preference. He was a very accomplished scorer and has a big place in MU history. Truthfully, I am 100% looking forward and looking forward to watching the Shaka era.

At this point, I have zero idea if any one guy is going to be an all time great, but I think the foundation is being built for long term success. All I care about is program success and if a guy emerges as a great player, all the better.

Quote from: Goose on November 08, 2022, 05:27:14 PM
Shooter

As you know, I was not a Howard or Wojo guy, but I hold no bad feelings towards Howard. He was not might type of player, but that is my preference. He was a very accomplished scorer and has a big place in MU history. Truthfully, I am 100% looking forward and looking forward to watching the Shaka era.

At this point, I have zero idea if any one guy is going to be an all time great, but I think the foundation is being built for long term success. All I care about is program success and if a guy emerges as a great player, all the better.

This x 1000

Can there be Threads about current players and team not derailed by the same stupid arguments and even stupider comparisons to former players?

Quote from: Goose on November 08, 2022, 05:27:14 PM
Shooter

As you know, I was not a Howard or Wojo guy, but I hold no bad feelings towards Howard. He was not might type of player, but that is my preference. He was a very accomplished scorer and has a big place in MU history. Truthfully, I am 100% looking forward and looking forward to watching the Shaka era.

At this point, I have zero idea if any one guy is going to be an all time great, but I think the foundation is being built for long term success. All I care about is program success and if a guy emerges as a great player, all the better.

Yep yep

Agreed Goose.

Quote from: Sultan Sultanberger on November 08, 2022, 05:26:24 PM

You should try being less sensitive for once.

You and Wades are the two getting all sensitive about my take on Chase Ross and thinking it is or was a diss of Markus.  It wasn't. I didn't and don't "hate" Markus.  He was a prolific scorer and good kid - other than being selfish on the basketball court - yet that was exacerbated by his clueless Head Coach imploring him to "shoot more, and the ultimate green light."

Try harder Sultan.

Quote from: Uncle Rico on November 08, 2022, 05:42:55 PM
This x 1000

Can there be Threads about current players and team not derailed by the same stupid arguments and even stupider comparisons to former players?

Good call.  Take it up with Wades and Sultan for getting all sensitive and bringing Markus into the discussion.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 08, 2022, 06:03:35 PM
You and Wades are the two getting all sensitive about my take on Chase Ross and thinking it is or was a diss of Markus.  It wasn't. I didn't and don't "hate" Markus.  He was a prolific scorer and good kid - other than being selfish on the basketball court - yet that was exacerbated by his clueless Head Coach imploring him to "shoot more, and the ultimate green light."

Try harder Sultan.

Hey aside from being all sensitive about any criticism, some reading comprehension should probably do you some good. I never claimed you hate Markus, no matter if you put the word in quotes or not.

So excuse me for not taking your advice seriously.

It had better be Jop or we are in for a long season.

Chase and Sean will be nice surprises, but we need some big scoring games from Jop to win games this year.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 08, 2022, 04:51:50 PM
Ahh..I didn't compare Chase to Markus.  Compared him to Jerel/Wes, as the best Freshman prospect.  Markus was a fantastic scorer. Prolific.  But, you'd think as a two-time All-American and the program's leading scorer - he'd have been able to stick on an NBA roster if he was such an amazing prospect.  I'm projecting out to the NBA...

So, in the Ners world, a guy has to have stuck on an NBA roster to have been a great prospect as a college freshman?

Markus had a freakin' amazing freshman year. The guy shot 56% from 3 and carried us down the stretch, all within the flow of an offense that had seven guys who averaged between 8 and 13 ppg.

The vast majority of Marquette fans would be over the moon if any of this season's freshmen play their role as well as Markus did and contribute as much to this team as Markus did to that fun-to-watch, tourney-bound 2016-17 Marquette team.

And if Shaka lands a recruit with the exact same skill set that Markus had coming out of high school -- when he was a 4-star who would have been a 5-star had he not opted to graduate as a 17-year-old -- you would be trumpeting it as an incredible recruiting get. And you'd be right.

Chase Ross played very effectively in his 22-minute stint against Radford. He seems to have all the tools to excel, and I'll be looking forward to seeing how he does against better competition. (And BTW, you're not the only one who has been bullish on him. Several Scoopers were talking glowingly about him last week, and he's received a ton of praise since the game.)

Maybe he'll become the 6th man -- to get back to what this thread is about -- or maybe he'll even break into the starting lineup. Or maybe not. We'll see!

Quote from: MU82 on November 08, 2022, 06:15:56 PM
So, in the Ners world, a guy has to have stuck on an NBA roster to have been a great prospect as a college freshman?

Markus had a freakin' amazing freshman year. The guy shot 56% from 3 and carried us down the stretch, all within the flow of an offense that had seven guys who averaged between 8 and 13 ppg.

The vast majority of Marquette fans would be over the moon if any of this season's freshmen play their role as well as Markus did and contribute as much to this team as Markus did to that fun-to-watch, tourney-bound 2016-17 Marquette team.

And if Shaka lands a recruit with the exact same skill set that Markus had coming out of high school -- when he was a 4-star who would have been a 5-star had he not opted to graduate as a 17-year-old -- you would be trumpeting it as an incredible recruiting get. And you'd be right.

Chase Ross played very effectively in his 22-minute stint against Radford. He seems to have all the tools to excel, and I'll be looking forward to seeing how he does against better competition. (And BTW, you're not the only one who has been bullish on him. Several Scoopers were talking glowingly about him last week, and he's received a ton of praise since the game.)

Maybe he'll become the 6th man -- to get back to what this thread is about -- or maybe he'll even break into the starting lineup. Or maybe not. We'll see!

Great post.  Markus was a great guard.  I'm excited to see a return of the Buzz-like, physical guards, and thus Chase Ross and Sean Jones.  I'm equally excited to see a return to good team basketball.  Have a great night!

Quote from: Sultan Sultanberger on November 08, 2022, 04:10:43 PM

It continues to baffle me that people will continue to rip on the most accomplished player we have had around here in awhile. Most fanbases would trip over themselves to laud a guy who put in four years for their program, ended as its leading scorer and was a consensus all-American their senior year.  And did so while being an absolutely wonderful representative of the school.

But our fanbase labels such a guy as "selfish" and proclaims that a freshman who has played a grand total of 21 minutes is a better player. ::)

Not to mention that this type of comparison is horribly unfair to Chase Ross. Let the guy play. If he ends up a better player, that would be wonderful. But if he doesn't, I hope he makes his mark. Making such predictions now is beyond silly.

If he was a traditional it would have been fine

Markus was a generational talent.  An all time scorer.  A multi-year All American.    A leader and a trailblazer for mental health awareness for student athletes. He should be on MU's Mount Rushmore by any objective measure.

It was his unfortunate fate to be so tightly linked to an unsuccessful coach.    Because of that association, some seize on and even seek reasons to dislike him.  It will take a few more years for him to get the appreciation he deserves.

The NBA didn't like him because he is 5'10.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on November 08, 2022, 04:51:50 PM
Ahh..I didn't compare Chase to Markus.  Compared him to Jerel/Wes, as the best Freshman prospect.  Markus was a fantastic scorer. Prolific.  But, you'd think as a two-time All-American and the program's leading scorer - he'd have been able to stick on an NBA roster if he was such an amazing prospect.  I'm projecting out to the NBA...

Btw - Predictions are fun to make. We all speculate a lot here.  It's part of scooping.  But, thanks for being the no fun police for Scoop Sultan!

Jimmer, Morrison, Markus. 3 players went off night after night but couldn't play in the NBA. Just cause you can score in College doesn't mean anything in the NBA.

Yup.  And short guys struggle in the NBA, too.

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2022, 08:07:07 AM
Yup.  And short guys struggle in the NBA, too.

My philosophy as an NBA GM would be to never take a guard under 6'5" in the top 5-10. When your a bad team you need a difference maker, someone to put you in title contention. Outside of Wade and Curry there hasn't been a short NBA guard that has really lead their team to a finals. All the best players are taller.

Would it suck missing on AI and Ja Morant certainly, but you are better of looking for that transcendent start with taller players.

Quote from: jfp61 on November 09, 2022, 09:39:09 AM
My philosophy as an NBA GM would be to never take a guard under 6'5" in the top 5-10. When your a bad team you need a difference maker, someone to put you in title contention. Outside of Wade and Curry there hasn't been a short NBA guard that has really lead their team to a finals. All the best players are taller.

Would it suck missing on AI and Ja Morant certainly, but you are better of looking for that transcendent start with taller players.

Ben Simmons

Quote from: jfp61 on November 09, 2022, 09:39:09 AM
My philosophy as an NBA GM would be to never take a guard under 6'5" in the top 5-10. When your a bad team you need a difference maker, someone to put you in title contention. Outside of Wade and Curry there hasn't been a short NBA guard that has really lead their team to a finals. All the best players are taller.

Would it suck missing on AI and Ja Morant certainly, but you are better of looking for that transcendent start with taller players.

I wouldn't hate having Steve Nash or Chris Paul run my team for years.  Obviously height helps in almost all major sports.  That's why most players who are drafted high are taller.  But if you've proven you're one of the top draft prospects despite being short, I can't think of many who failed because of their lack of height.

Quote from: wadesworld on November 09, 2022, 09:53:31 AM
I wouldn't hate having Steve Nash or Chris Paul run my team for years.  Obviously height helps in almost all major sports.  That's why most players who are drafted high are taller.  But if you've proven you're one of the top draft prospects despite being short, I can't think of many who failed because of their lack of height.

Stockton, too. Lillard ain't bad, either.

If we're gonna limit "greatness" only to those who have led their team to NBA titles, we're sure leaving out a lot of great players, regardless of height.

Quote from: jfp61 on November 09, 2022, 09:39:09 AM
My philosophy as an NBA GM would be to never take a guard under 6'5" in the top 5-10. When your a bad team you need a difference maker, someone to put you in title contention. Outside of Wade and Curry there hasn't been a short NBA guard that has really lead their team to a finals. All the best players are taller.

I mean...Steph Curry.

Quote from: Sultan Sultanberger on November 09, 2022, 10:06:02 AM

I mean...Steph Curry.

He said outside of curry... I don't think he meant the spice

Quote from: Galway Eagle on November 09, 2022, 10:07:12 AM
He said outside of curry... I don't think he meant the spice

Yeah I missed that.

But even then, "outside of two of the two 75 players in NBA history, no one else has really done it."  OK.

Wait until Muggsy gets caught up in this thread.

I would love to see a pro basketball league where there was a 6ft height maximum. I think that'd be more entertaining than the three v three. It'd be like weight classes in fighting sports except with height.

Quote from: Spotcheck Billy on November 09, 2022, 10:30:30 AM
Wait until Muggsy gets caught up in this thread.

LOL

Isaiah Thomas.   With Dumars and Vinnie Johnson.

Quote from: tower912 on November 09, 2022, 01:42:56 PM
Isaiah Thomas.   With Dumars and Vinnie Johnson.

Great call.

Stars - especially Thomas, truly an all-time great - and champions, too.

Odds are against guys who are under 6-4 or 6-5 -- especially for guys who will be role players or on the fringe of making a roster at all -- but the greats are the greats.

Quote from: wadesworld on November 09, 2022, 09:53:31 AM
I wouldn't hate having Steve Nash or Chris Paul run my team for years.  Obviously height helps in almost all major sports.  That's why most players who are drafted high are taller.  But if you've proven you're one of the top draft prospects despite being short, I can't think of many who failed because of their lack of height.

Nash was picked 15th.

Missing on Chris Paul would suck. But honestly how would anyone know how appalling that draft would be after him. Also Chris Paul requires a whole high level team around him to in order to be competitive in the playoffs. So as great as he would be it is probably better to stupidly pick Marvin Williams and then stumble into Al Horford a few year later. Like Atlanta did.

Also a Chris Paul is the worst case scenario for this strategy.

Quote from: jfp61 on November 09, 2022, 02:02:24 PM
Nash was picked 15th.

Missing on Chris Paul would suck. But honestly how would anyone know how appalling that draft would be after him. Also Chris Paul requires a whole high level team around him to in order to be competitive in the playoffs. So as great as he would be it is probably better to stupidly pick Marvin Williams and then stumble into Al Horford a few year later. Like Atlanta did.

Also a Chris Paul is the worst case scenario for this strategy.

I mean yeah.  How many teams in the history of the NBA are competitive in the Playoffs without having a "whole high level team" around one player?

I just don't think being 6' to 6'3" makes you undraftable.  If you've proven yourself to the point where you're a first round/lottery pick player, then you can play.  I'm not drafting Thon Maker over some little guard just because Thon's 7' and the other guy isn't.

Quote from: wadesworld on November 09, 2022, 09:53:31 AM
I wouldn't hate having Steve Nash or Chris Paul run my team for years.  Obviously height helps in almost all major sports.  That's why most players who are drafted high are taller.  But if you've proven you're one of the top draft prospects despite being short, I can't think of many who failed because of their lack of height.

Nash and Santa Clara sure $h¥t  the bed at the hands of Mike Deane's xxxxx's and oooooo's eh? Or was that game early-on in Crean's tenure? I was at the game with my Dad, and if you'd have told us right then and there that he would rise to NBA stardom, we both would've laughed at the time. Most at MECCA that night would've.

Quote from: GoFastAndWin on November 09, 2022, 06:42:35 PM
Nash and Santa Clara sure $h¥t  the bed at the hands of Mike Deane's xxxxx's and oooooo's eh? Or was that game early-on in Crean's tenure? I was at the game with my Dad, and if you'd have told us right then and there that he would rise to NBA stardom, we both would've laughed at the time. Most at MECCA that night would've.

Nash graduated Santa Clara in 1996.  He would've played us at the Bradley Center, not MECCA.

Quote from: BrewCity83 on November 10, 2022, 12:13:13 PM
Nash graduated Santa Clara in 1996.  He would've played us at the Bradley Center, not MECCA.

Not that game. Scheduling conflict at the BC. MU put the clamps on Nash and ran away with it.

I went thru this thread pretty quickly so forgive me if someone already said this.

The 6th man on this team doesn't matter. Different guys will fill that role at different times this year.

It may be Joplin for his shooting, Sean Jones for his speed and playmaking, Stevie for his defense, Ross for his multiple skills.

IOW, there won't be one guy who fulfills the role game after game.

Quote from: Jockey on November 10, 2022, 03:56:55 PM
I went thru this thread pretty quickly so forgive me if someone already said this.

The 6th man on this team doesn't matter. Different guys will fill that role at different times this year.

It may be Joplin for his shooting, Sean Jones for his speed and playmaking, Stevie for his defense, Ross for his multiple skills.

IOW, there won't be one guy who fulfills the role game after game.

So 6th man no matta

Quote from: wadesworld on November 09, 2022, 03:50:55 PM
I mean yeah.  How many teams in the history of the NBA are competitive in the Playoffs without having a "whole high level team" around one player?

I just don't think being 6' to 6'3" makes you undraftable.  If you've proven yourself to the point where you're a first round/lottery pick player, then you can play.  I'm not drafting Thon Maker over some little guard just because Thon's 7' and the other guy isn't.

Bucks couldn't draft guards either they took Jimmer 10th. Donte was 17th got traded before people figured out how low his value was. Vaughan was the 17th pick.

The 6'4" 10th overall pick this year is already in the g league.