No one to blame but ourselves. This was a cluster F of mistakes down the stretch and very questionable coaching decisions frankly. I can't figure out the Elliott/Jones combo the final 7 mins at all. Somehow we're going to have to shake it off but this was a complete meltdown and beyond disappointing.
Our seniors really stepping up when it matters. Great job guys
soul crushing. Luckily I have other things to now occupy my Sunday afternoon. Glad MUBB isnt one of them anymore.
We'd better figure out late game possessions quick or it will be a very early exit in March. Puke
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 20, 2022, 04:23:40 PM
No one to blame but ourselves. This was a cluster F of mistakes down the stretch and very questionable coaching decisions frankly. I can't figure out the Elliott/Jones combo the final 7 mins at all. Somehow we're going to have to shake it off but this was a complete meltdown and beyond disappointing.
Easy to figure out Muggsy. It is called coach's judgement. How did it work out?
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 20, 2022, 04:23:40 PM
No one to blame but ourselves. This was a cluster F of mistakes down the stretch and very questionable coaching decisions frankly. I can't figure out the Elliott/Jones combo the final 7 mins at all. Somehow we're going to have to shake it off but this was a complete meltdown and beyond disappointing.
We were picked at the bottom of the conference. We will finish in the middle and likely get a bid. All in all better than I expected when the season started.
Worst coached game of the season. Marquette over relied on Darryl to keep making inefficient buckets. Jones and Elliot lineups dont work.
At work. Caught a small fire. Missed from the end of the first half up to the last minute, which I listened to. Let this be the thread.
Why was Kolek not in? PG should have the ball in his hands on these late possessions.
Quote from: jfp61 on February 20, 2022, 04:27:50 PM
Worst coached game of the season. Marquette over relied on Darryl to keep making inefficient buckets. Jones and Elliot lineups dont work.
It worked until it didn't. They should have brought Kolek back earlier. Multiple people mentioned it in the game thread.
I (rightfully) expect to get $hit for this, but I'm on a flight to Maui right now, was following the game on ESPN's app, and wifi crashed with 17 seconds left in the game. Guess I didn't miss anything.
Terrible collapse
WHY was Kolek on the bench ? This is really getting ugly. Missed layups.. turnovers...
New team / new coach ... another
February Fade ??
As bad as it gets:
1. Poor decisions and execution by our seniors.
2. Poor game plan an execution against a tired and depleted team
3. Did Kolek just give up? Why did he ride the bench?
Numbnuts, a 29% 3-point shooter goes 4-6. Reminiscent of Butler with guy shooting way above their season average.
Have to play position defensive. Can't let guys have open 3's and can't let guys establish position near the basket. Offensive rebounds hurt again.
Quote from: Mu8891 on February 20, 2022, 04:30:04 PM
Terrible collapse
WHY was Kolek on the bench ? This is really getting ugly. Missed layups.. turnovers...
New team / new coach ... another
February Fade ??
Don't bring up "Feb fades" this board will crucify for it.
The last inbound with 5 seconds was piss poor from the get go. The most effective play in that situation is to pass back to the inbounder with a running start. You wouldn't have elliot in that situation either. Shaka really botched the end of both Creighton games this year.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 20, 2022, 04:27:27 PM
We were picked at the bottom of the conference. We will finish in the middle and likely get a bid. All in all better than I expected when the season started.
yeah, the stupid house money argument again. No thanks.
total choke job
elliott can go
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 20, 2022, 04:31:41 PM
The last inbound with 5 seconds was piss poor from the get go. The most effective play in that situation is to pass back to the inbounder with a running start. You wouldn't have elliot in that situation either. Shaka really botched the end of both Creighton games this year.
The most effective play with 5 seconds remaining is to throw it back to the guy 94 feet away? I don't think so. That's a half court heave at best.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 20, 2022, 04:27:27 PM
We were picked at the bottom of the conference. We will finish in the middle and likely get a bid. All in all better than I expected when the season started.
This is kind of where I come out too. This team was never top teens in the country good, and I feel like they're in the right spot in the BEast standings now. Bummer given how high they rose, but there's still a couple weeks to get hot again at the right time.
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 20, 2022, 04:31:41 PM
The last inbound with 5 seconds was piss poor from the get go. The most effective play in that situation is to pass back to the inbounder with a running start. You wouldn't have elliot in that situation either. Shaka really botched the end of both Creighton games this year.
Yep. No idea why Oso was even in the game in that situation either.
The thing is it wasn't only the obvious disaster chippie misses and turns. We had a 5 point lead and the ball when the s-storm happened. We were lucky not to turn it over immediately that possession with Morsell, then Kam dribbles in traffic and takes a prayer shot which was knocked out of bounce with 8 secs on the shot clock. We still have 8 full seconds on their end of the court and throw the ball from under their hoop to almost half-court.
That leads to a 30 footer and they score in semi-transtion at the other end. It was a horsecrap possession and showed a total lack of focus on the task at hand.
Morsell had a great game. But he is not a point guard. He should not bring the ball up full court even with light pressure. We all saw the turnovers at the end of the first and second halves before they happened. Get him the ball after crossing half court.
Shaka needed a point guard to bring it up. Bad call on his part. As soon as Morsell tried multiple crossovers the ball was there for the picking.
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 20, 2022, 04:31:41 PM
The last inbound with 5 seconds was piss poor from the get go. The most effective play in that situation is to pass back to the inbounder with a running start. You wouldn't have elliot in that situation either. Shaka really botched the end of both Creighton games this year.
Excellent point and 100% correct. That play was going nowhere.
The 8/9 game should be fun
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on February 20, 2022, 04:34:16 PM
Morsell had a great game. But he is not a point guard. He should not bring the ball up full court even with light pressure. We all saw the turnovers at the end of the first and second halves before they happened. Get him the ball after crossing half court.
Shaka needed a point guard to bring it up. Bad call on his part. As soon as Morsell tried multiple crossovers the ball was there for the picking.
How about a bad call for having both Jones and GE in the game for the last 7+ mins?
MU did not score for last five minutes of the game, until Jones hit the three. BAD again slump
MU had 10 turnovers in the second half.
Kolek sat for like the last 16 minutes after a terrible start to second half. Never returned, not like Shaka, more of a Buzz thing.
Two missed layups was just a dagger. MU makes them and I believe they win.
Elliott guarding Hawkins was terrible coaching decision. Hawkins took him three times and finally Shaka subbed Elliott for Prosper, who of course then missed a layup.
CU knew Morsell was going to get ball and doubled him, but Morsell did not pass out or attempt to. He wanted to dribble thru by himself. Ballgame. I would of had Kolek in for that possession.
So, MU loses to CU twice. Once on a not fouling, and another when CU had a starter and main bench player out AND O'Connell going out with an injury with five minutes left. Two coulda/shoulda wins, along with Butler loss. Hurts.
Shaka can be blamed for both losses against Creighton this year. The decision not to foul in the first game was obviously wrong. Today the lineup late in the game was as odd as it gets. From missed layups to unforced errors and no offensive game plan under the five minute mark, this was as ignominious an ending as you'll ever see. The most frustrating part is the EXPERIENCED players made all the late mistakes.
Hard to believe this team beats Villanova twice and loses twice to a chump team like Creighton.
Quote from: ATWizJr on February 20, 2022, 04:31:59 PM
yeah, the stupid house money argument again. No thanks.
Ya, I couldn't agree with you more. This is a ridiculous narrative.
Quote from: BLM on February 20, 2022, 04:32:38 PM
The most effective play with 5 seconds remaining is to throw it back to the guy 94 feet away? I don't think so. That's a half court heave at best.
With a full head of steam and no one covering him initially, I think Kam especially would have had a chance to make a play in that situation. It's a low percentage situation either way. But neither here nor there. MU turned it over on their last 2 possessions in embarrassing ways. Had flashbacks of Hayward.
Quote from: PointWarrior on February 20, 2022, 04:38:14 PM
Hard to believe this team beats Villanova twice and loses twice to a chump team like Creighton.
the same "chump team" that beat Nova by 20 on the same floor and is a game ahead of us in the standings? Maybe CU is pretty much equal to us, not DePaul-Omaha.
Quote from: BLM on February 20, 2022, 04:32:38 PM
The most effective play with 5 seconds remaining is to throw it back to the guy 94 feet away? I don't think so. That's a half court heave at best.
They were going to in bound it to Oso. What exactly is he going to do with it?
Quote from: Clarissa on February 20, 2022, 04:41:29 PM
They were going to in bound it to Oso. What exactly is he going to do with it?
Why on God's Green Earth was he in the game? I hadn't even thought of this. WTH was going on here? I don't think there's a rational answer.
Quote from: Clarissa on February 20, 2022, 04:41:29 PM
They were going to in bound it to Oso. What exactly is he going to do with it?
That doesn't mean the most effective play in a situation where you have to go the full length of the court with 5 seconds left is to in bound it and then throw it backwards. That's guaranteed to leave you with a half court heave, in the best case scenario.
Quote from: Boone on February 20, 2022, 04:32:25 PM
total choke job
elliott can go
I love when Elliott flexes after a bucket instead of playing D. Guy is good occasionally.
Up 5 with 4 to play and Shaka chose not to put Kolek in to run the show and close it out.
Instead he tried to let Lewis and Morsell do too much and they both failed.
That's a season altering decision to not go to the floor general with a lead.
Butler, @DePaul, St. John's
Those are all realistic games we could and may lose. Danger zone for Marquette but the season is still in their control and they should embrace it...will they?
Not sure why the "we should have never been good this year so its fine" mentality is around right now...MU lost a game they clearly could have won. That is the concern as far as "building" goes.
If we don't finish next 3 games 3-0 then I'll agree with a lot that has been said here; and if you think the refs were bad here calling fouls just wait for the BET where we always get short changed.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 20, 2022, 04:45:22 PM
Up 5 with 4 to play and Shaka chose not to put Kolek in to run the show and close it out.
Instead he tried to let Lewis and Morsell do too much and they both failed.
That's a season altering decision to not go to the floor general with a lead.
Butler, @DePaul, St. John's
Those are all realistic games we could and may lose. Danger zone for Marquette but the season is still in their control and they should embrace it...will they?
Great point. The scoopers are very wise fans. I pointed out in the thread NOT to play hero ball down the stretch but we decided to go with a lot of one on one garbage.
Quote from: Clarissa on February 20, 2022, 04:41:29 PM
They were going to in bound it to Oso. What exactly is he going to do with it?
Hand off to a running elite with action for Morsell and Lewis going down the wings.
Quote from: jfp61 on February 20, 2022, 04:27:50 PM
Worst coached game of the season. Marquette over relied on Darryl to keep making inefficient buckets. Jones and Elliot lineups dont work.
Lol - Morsell has proven he can make the shots he does (so they are efficient) and he did it at a high clip today. Wrong game for this take.
60% from the line didn't help either
Quote from: muwarrior69 on February 20, 2022, 04:47:33 PM
If we don't finish next 3 games 3-0 then I'll agree with a lot that has been said here; and if you think the refs were bad here calling fouls just wait for the BET where we always get short changed.
Yep, need to finish 3-0 now otherwise Shaka's season will no longer be "exceeding exoectations"
Quote from: panda on February 20, 2022, 04:48:48 PM
Hand off to a running elite with action for Morsell and Lewis going down the wings.
Good point. But I just don't like him in there. Too young. Freezes up.
Quote from: MU24 on February 20, 2022, 04:45:45 PM
Not sure why the "we should have never been good this year so its fine" mentality is around right now...MU lost a game they clearly could have won. That is the concern as far as "building" goes.
Becuase there is nothing I can do about it? I'm a fan with 0.00% impact on what goes on. I still think Shaka is the guy and I still like the trajectory of the team, so it is better for me to keep my head than attach myself to the high point of the year and then get all worked up when the team comes back to earth.
Quote from: MUBurrow on February 20, 2022, 04:56:25 PM
Becuase there is nothing I can do about it? I'm a fan with 0.00% impact on what goes on. I still think Shaka is the guy and I still like the trajectory of the team, so it is better for me to keep my head
Should be pinned at the top of the board as a constant reminder.
Quote from: Clarissa on February 20, 2022, 04:55:40 PM
Good point. But I just don't like him in there. Too young. Freezes up.
He's the second inbound receiving option when option one is covered. You don't want a playmaker coming back catching the ball with his back to the basket under 5 seconds. It's very hard to get a good look.
I'm sorry if I'm not going to be skipping in the park and having chocolate milkshakes after losing that game. There's nothing wrong with fans venting after a stunning debacle of epic proportions.
Quote from: 1SE on February 20, 2022, 04:55:03 PM
Yep, need to finish 3-0 now otherwise Shaka's season will no longer be "exceeding exoectations"
Completely disagree.
At this point, I'll take a 2-1 finish, unfortunately.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 20, 2022, 04:36:32 PM
The 8/9 game should be fun
Better win Saturday or we could be looking at the bubble.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 20, 2022, 05:01:40 PM
Completely disagree.
At this point, I'll take a 2-1 finish, unfortunately.
This. Today was infuriating but a 2-1 finish and we're a 7 or 8 seed and it's a successful year.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 20, 2022, 05:02:24 PM
Better win Saturday or we could be looking at the bubble.
We are 100% in the tournament.
Quote from: panda on February 20, 2022, 05:04:30 PM
We are 100% in the tournament.
If we lose out we are 100% out. We'd be 17-14.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 20, 2022, 05:02:24 PM
Better win Saturday or we could be looking at the bubble.
We still have work to do to get to the 8-9 game. One more win puts us there I think. I think MU is in the tournament at 17-14 this year though (no Dayton either).
Quote from: MuggsyB on February 20, 2022, 05:01:23 PM
I'm sorry if I'm not going to be skipping in the park and having chocolate milkshakes after losing that game. There's nothing wrong with fans venting after a stunning debacle of epic proportions.
And you should vent to your heart's content.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on February 20, 2022, 04:34:16 PM
Morsell had a great game. But he is not a point guard. He should not bring the ball up full court even with light pressure. We all saw the turnovers at the end of the first and second halves before they happened. Get him the ball after crossing half court.
Shaka needed a point guard to bring it up. Bad call on his part. As soon as Morsell tried multiple crossovers the ball was there for the picking.
Exactly.
Quote from: CountryRoads on February 20, 2022, 05:05:22 PM
We still have work to do to get to the 8-9 game. One more win puts us there I think. I think MU is in the tournament at 17-14 this year though (no Dayton either).
Nope. Out. No Dayton.
We'd be 17-14 and taking 4 consecutive bad losses in this scenario. Win one and we're fine.
I have no idea why Kolek had to sit on the bench nearly the entire second half. You can't let a guy play his way out of a slump? The coach keeps telling us Tyler is crucial to the success of the team, yet he sits for 16 minutes in the second half of a big conference road game? I think Shaka is contradicting himself quite nicely.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 20, 2022, 05:01:40 PM
Completely disagree.
At this point, I'll take a 2-1 finish, unfortunately.
3-4 finish against that schedule would be positively Wojo-esque
the "season doesnt matter cuz pre season expectarions were low" ppl are weirdos. i dont get the logic at all. any season only matters depending on pre season expectation??? whatever the players and coaches dont think like that.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 20, 2022, 05:02:24 PM
Better win Saturday or we could be looking at the bubble.
Let's be honest.
Marquette probably isn't beating Butler, DePaul, and St. John's. They are going to lose again at least once.
Realistically they could finish 17-13 which would make for a sweaty BET and Selection Sunday.
I think 8/9 is likely at this point, but missing the tournament is not out of the question. There are no Q1 opportunities left. That was the last chance. So none of these remaining wins will move them up the seed lines. They can only go down unfortunately.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 20, 2022, 05:05:09 PM
If we lose out we are 100% out. We'd be 17-14.
You are wrong. Our resume as it stands now, is more than enough to get in. You don't drop from a fringe 4 seed to out of the tournament losing a few games.
Quote from: bradforster on February 20, 2022, 05:08:43 PM
I have no idea why Kolek had to sit on the bench nearly the entire second half. You can't let a guy play his way out of a slump? The coach keeps telling us Tyler is crucial to the success of the team, yet he sits for 16 minutes in the second half of a big conference road game? I think Shaka is contradicting himself quite nicely.
He had 7 points including a three in 15 mins. Some bad turns but I agree with you. I am dumbfounded he sat that long.
I will take 2 - 1 finish.
No guarantee of that. They seem to be fading... I think they need a few days off. They looked gassed at the end
Quote from: bradforster on February 20, 2022, 05:08:43 PM
I have no idea why Kolek had to sit on the bench nearly the entire second half. You can't let a guy play his way out of a slump? The coach keeps telling us Tyler is crucial to the success of the team, yet he sits for 16 minutes in the second half of a big conference road game? I think Shaka is contradicting himself quite nicely.
Kolek played a total of 15 minutes, but that includes the last ten minutes of first half due to foul issues. Means he played like 5 minutes of second half, then sat.
Turnovers:
Kolek 3
Lewis 5
Morsell 5
Thats 13 of MU's 16.
Quote from: panda on February 20, 2022, 05:10:48 PM
You are wrong. Our resume as it stands now, is more than enough to get in. You don't drop from a fringe 4 seed to out of the tournament losing a few games.
They've lost more than a few. They've lost 4 of 6. They were a fringe 4 before losing to Butler and Creighton.
Now they have 10 losses and are sub .500 in Q1 and Q2 games as well as sub .500 on the road.
It's gonna be a sweat the rest of the way.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 20, 2022, 05:13:46 PM
They've lost more than a few. They've lost 4 of 6. They were a fringe 4 before losing to Butler and Creighton.
Now they have 10 losses and are sub .500 in Q1 and Q2 games as well as sub .500 on the road.
It's gonna be a sweat the rest of the way.
No it isn't.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 20, 2022, 05:13:46 PM
They've lost more than a few. They've lost 4 of 6. They were a fringe 4 before losing to Butler and Creighton.
Now they have 10 losses and are sub .500 in Q1 and Q2 games as well as sub .500 on the road.
It's gonna be a sweat the rest of the way.
No sweat. Marquette is solidly in regardless of what happens down the stretch.
Quote from: 1SE on February 20, 2022, 05:09:47 PM
3-4 finish against that schedule would be positively Wojo-esque
It would be a poor, disappointing finish. However, my response was in regards to this season not meeting expectations if we don't go 3-0 to end the regular season. Couldn't disagree more with that.
I think we need one more win but that won't be a problem.
Quote from: panda on February 20, 2022, 05:10:48 PM
You are wrong. Our resume as it stands now, is more than enough to get in. You don't drop from a fringe 4 seed to out of the tournament losing a few games.
You might want to look into this a bit more. Our resume is built on good wins and zero to few bad losses. If we all of a sudden take on four more meh to bad losses, our resume isn't very good.
T Ranks projections have an 18-14 MU out and not particularly close (fourth team out) if they lose the next three, win one in the BET, and then lose in the quarterfinals.
That said, I am pretty confident we win Saturday and this discussion won't matter.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 20, 2022, 05:13:46 PM
They've lost more than a few. They've lost 4 of 6. They were a fringe 4 before losing to Butler and Creighton.
Now they have 10 losses and are sub .500 in Q1 and Q2 games as well as sub .500 on the road.
It's gonna be a sweat the rest of the way.
Now compare that to the resumes of the teams that are actually on the bubble right now.
Quote from: Elonsmusk on February 20, 2022, 04:30:42 PM
Numbnuts, a 29% 3-point shooter goes 4-6. Reminiscent of Butler with guy shooting way above their season average.
guys go off on Marquette because the D is trash.
Quote from: BM1090 on February 20, 2022, 05:21:20 PM
You might want to look into this a bit more. Our resume is built on good wins and zero to few bad losses. If we all of a sudden take on four more meh to bad losses, our resume isn't very good.
T Ranks projections have an 18-14 MU out and not particularly close (fourth team out) if they lose the next three, win one in the BET, and then lose in the quarterfinals.
That said, I am pretty confident we win Saturday and this discussion won't matter.
I dropped the SJU game as that most likely won't be played. They are solidly in on Trank even while losing out.
Quote from: PointWarrior on February 20, 2022, 04:38:14 PM
Hard to believe this team beats Villanova twice and loses twice to a chump team like Creighton.
word
Quote from: panda on February 20, 2022, 05:18:13 PM
No sweat. Marquette is solidly in regardless of what happens down the stretch.
So, MU would lose 7 out of its last 9, to include Depaul, have a 9-10 BE record and still get an NCAA bid.
I don't know about that. Probably not going to lose three in a row anyway.
Quote from: nyg on February 20, 2022, 05:24:24 PM
So, MU would lose 7 out of its last 9, to include Depaul, have a 9-10 BE record and still get an NCAA bid.
I don't know about that. Probably not going to lose three in a row anyway.
I'm not including the SJU game as that will most likely not be made up. 9-9 in conference given those circumstances = no sweat.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 20, 2022, 04:45:22 PM
Up 5 with 4 to play and Shaka chose not to put Kolek in to run the show and close it out.
Instead he tried to let Lewis and Morsell do too much and they both failed.
That's a season altering decision to not go to the floor general with a lead.
Butler, @DePaul, St. John's
Those are all realistic games we could and may lose. Danger zone for Marquette but the season is still in their control and they should embrace it...will they?
This.
Quote from: panda on February 20, 2022, 05:25:47 PM
I'm not including the SJU game as that will most likely not be made up. 9-9 in conference given those circumstances = no sweat.
The last game of the season is March 5 v SJU.
Quote from: panda on February 20, 2022, 05:25:47 PM
I'm not including the SJU game as that will most likely not be made up. 9-9 in conference given those circumstances = no sweat.
Considering they are currently 9-7 and have 3 games left they can't finish 9-9.
They could however finish 9-10, very realistically. It will be a sweat. Better pack the arena next Saturday because Butler just smacked us in the mouth once and they'll do it again.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 20, 2022, 05:10:21 PM
the "season doesnt matter cuz pre season expectarions were low" ppl are weirdos. i dont get the logic at all. any season only matters depending on pre season expectation??? whatever the players and coaches dont think like that.
Its not just based on preseason expectations, but its based on the team I've watched throughout the season. This is a "win a couple you shouldn't, lose a couple you shouldn't" team if there ever was one. And I like this team a lot! But its hard for me to get too beat up over this one. On the road, against a good team, and the plays that killed us down the stretch were turnovers from the two oldest guys on the team and a missed bunny from our fringe first round NBA-er. Other than that I am also curious to hear more about why Kolek sat the whole second half, that's a "horses you rode in on" loss and you take your lump and move on.
Quote from: Clarissa on February 20, 2022, 05:28:38 PM
The last game of the season is March 5 v SJU.
My bad - I thought I was looking at the away sju game which will not be made up.
I stand by my take even with a loss to sju.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 20, 2022, 05:30:08 PM
Considering they are currently 9-7 and have 3 games left they can't finish 9-9.
They could however finish 9-10, very realistically. It will be a sweat. Better pack the arena next Saturday because Butler just smacked us in the mouth once and they'll do it again.
The chances of losing the next 3 is minimal. They've got 5 days to prepare for Butler at home. No excuse to lose that game.
It's one thing to lose, but MU doesn't help itself. Weird line-ups. Same mistakes game in game out. Is coaching basketball that difficult? Wojo is gone, but is Shaka an upgrade? Maybe we won't know until year two or even year three. But it sure gets rough when basketball is our 'show' and the product is cold soup for a decade now. (made worse by the annual winning over in Dane Cty)
Quote from: Viper on February 20, 2022, 05:36:31 PM
It's one thing to lose, but MU doesn't help itself. Weird line-ups. Same mistakes game in game out. Is coaching basketball that difficult? Wojo is gone, but is Shaka an upgrade? Maybe we won't know until year two or even year three. But it sure gets rough when basketball is our 'show' and the product is cold soup for a decade now. (made worse by the annual winning over in Dane Cty)
Lot of silly hyperbole here.
Is Shaka an upgrade? Hysterical.
Quote from: Viper on February 20, 2022, 05:36:31 PM
It's one thing to lose, but MU doesn't help itself. Weird line-ups. Same mistakes game in game out. Is coaching basketball that difficult? Wojo is gone, but is Shaka an upgrade? Maybe we won't know until year two or even year three. But it sure gets rough when basketball is our 'show' and the product is cold soup for a decade now. (made worse by the annual winning over in Dane Cty)
Kolek has a hard time playing the way kalkbrenner defends the pnr. He struggled today. Kam was better around the paint with the ball. Pnr defense is also why we saw a lot of iso Morsell which he dominated creighton with and kept us in the game.
So, adjustments.
Quote from: tower912 on February 20, 2022, 05:43:26 PM
So, adjustments.
Yep - extremely poor finish, but in a bizarro world, we're singing the praises of Morsell for his awesome defense on Nemhard the possession before his turnover and him absolutely dominating offensively.
Kolek SHOULD have been in the game to handle the ball and run sets when u are up w / 4 mins to go.
AWFUL decision by Shaka. Really bad
Should be 2 - 0 v Creighton and we are
0 - 2.
Sounded by the words of Shaka in the post-game he didn't trust Kolek.
MU is solidly in 5th place. I expect they will finish there and get a bid. It is easy to get caught up in the frustrations of the present. That being said Kolek better have a broken am or leg to not have been in the game at the end. He runs the offense.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 20, 2022, 05:10:21 PM
the "season doesnt matter cuz pre season expectarions were low" ppl are weirdos. i dont get the logic at all. any season only matters depending on pre season expectation??? whatever the players and coaches dont think like that.
I have done what I said I would. Why is that weird?
We lost by one on the road to a likely tourney team. They went nuts from three and we missed two bunnies in the final seconds that may have sealed a victory had they gone in. There are obvious improvements that need to be made, but Shaka has hit way more than he's missed this season.
No Kolek at the end is a real head scratcher. I know he had a rough game and I actually like how we used Jones in his place. But you gotta believe he doesn't let a scrub turn him over before even initiating the offense
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 20, 2022, 05:32:10 PM
The chances of losing the next 3 is minimal. They've got 5 days to prepare for Butler at home. No excuse to lose that game.
Butler. A team they trailed by 23 to no longer than 8 days ago. It'll be a roller coaster finish.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 20, 2022, 06:00:52 PM
Butler. A team they trailed by 23 to no longer than 8 days ago. It'll be a roller coaster finish.
Another panda guarantee - there is a zero percent chance of us losing the butler game.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 20, 2022, 06:00:52 PM
Butler. A team they trailed by 23 to no longer than 8 days ago. It'll be a roller coaster finish.
A team they should absolutely beat at home on National Marquette Day.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 20, 2022, 06:04:48 PM
A team they should absolutely beat at home on National Marquette Day.
Absolutely. We'll win the two remaining home games and enter the BET as a lock.
All I am saying is if I'm wrong and we lose the next 3, we're out.
Quote from: Clarissa on February 20, 2022, 04:41:29 PM
They were going to in bound it to Oso. What exactly is he going to do with it?
Hand it off to Greg. That's why Greg was caught leaning so far forward. I'm sure he was told to sprint past Oso, take the handoff and hit a 3 on the run. Not sure why Greg thought he needed his toes right on the line tho. That being said, in the replay I saw, i didn't think his toe touched over the line.
Shaka, when asked about Kolek sitting:
"He was throwing the ball to the other team. And you go on the road, in a place like this, an environment like this, you have to have a look on your face of being a gladiator. I thought we had that at times today; at other times, we didn't."
Interesting that the "gladiator" remark came as a direct response to a question about Kolek.
Shaka post-game:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eK4Ch2jj98
He also gave credit to Creighton for repeatedly pulling late-clock buckets out of their keisters, he gently criticized the refs, and he lamented the number of missed bunnies.
Fire WOJO!
Shaka would never allow this to happen right 5dollarbitcher?
But seriously good game. Shoulda won. Missed open shots that almost always go down. Bounce back time. Let's see how quickly we mature and bounce back cause otherwise 10seed incoming.
Hopefully MU and Creighton finish fourth and fifth in conference play. That would produce a quarterfinal match up between the two teams at MSG and maybe this time we can win the damn game!
A thoroughly well-earned loss. You can't win when your most experienced players, including arguably your two best, make the kind of mistakes ours did down the stretch.
Putting Kolek back in, ice cold, with a couple minutes left in a tight road game ... I don't know about that. As for sitting Kolek as long as Shaka did, yes, on the surface, it seems like it was a bit too much "punishment." But Kolek had played poorly, and the team was functioning well without him. Until we know a little more, I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt on this one to the coach who is right there on the sideline and who has a sense of his player's mindset.
Elliott didn't play very well either, especially on offense, as he's been in a bit of a shooting slump. On his "Lazar Moment" play, most coaches I know tell their inbounder to stand a foot or so back from the line to prevent exactly what happened. I'd love to know why Greg was standing about a half-inch from the line in the first place. Terrible mistake by a 5th-year guy (one I like very much), and perhaps a coaching error too.
Morsell was a stud most of the game, though he was loose with the ball even before his final killer turnover.
While I would've liked Kolek in on the last play, I think Kalkbrenner is the reason he didn't really play in the second half. As I mentioned before the game, Creighton is a bad matchup because they are elite defending pick and roll. Tyler gets all his action off pick and roll, but Kalkbrenner kills him because he shuts down passing lanes with length and interior awareness and if Tyler drives to score, he gets smothered.
The biggest issue today is we probably locked ourselves into the 4/5 line in the BET and will see Creighton or UConn in the opener at MSG, which are our two worst matchups in the league.
Our best hope was wearing them down and it almost worked. We outscored them 20-10 from the 12-4 minute marks, but then turned it over twice and missed two no-footers while Creighton did just enough to escape. Probably needed some more press earlier.
Quote from: MU82 on February 20, 2022, 07:15:52 PM
A thoroughly well-earned loss. You can't win when your most experienced players, including arguably your two best, make the kind of mistakes ours did down the stretch.
Putting Kolek back in, ice cold, with a couple minutes left in a tight road game ... I don't know about that. As for sitting Kolek as long as Shaka did, yes, on the surface, it seems like it was a bit too much "punishment." But Kolek had played poorly, and the team was functioning well without him. Until we know a little more, I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt on this one to the coach who is right there on the sideline and who has a sense of his player's mindset.
Elliott didn't play very well either, especially on offense, as he's been in a bit of a shooting slump. On his "Lazar Moment" play, most coaches I know tell their inbounder to stand a foot or so back from the line to prevent exactly what happened. I'd love to know why Greg was standing about a half-inch from the line in the first place. Terrible mistake by a 5th-year guy (one I like very much), and perhaps a coaching error too.
Morsell was a stud most of the game, though he was loose with the ball even before his final killer turnover.
All good points.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 20, 2022, 05:38:42 PM
Lot of silly hyperbole here.
Is Shaka an upgrade? Hysterical.
silly? Maybe, I suppose. Maybe not. But, you really didn't offer anything. It's hysterical that yes, Shaka is an upgrade over Woj? Or, it's hysterical because of course Shaka is not an upgrade? Is the BE stronger this year than in years past, or weaker? Is Marquette's conf record to this point impressive?...or not necessarily? I'm glad Woj is no longer coaching MU, but this season is trending more of the been there done that.
Terrible play by Elliot..,
HS kids know u stand a foot or more behind the line
WHY was he two inches from the line to begin with?? Either an idiotic play by a Sr or poor coaching
Quote from: Mu8891 on February 20, 2022, 07:36:39 PM
Terrible play by Elliot..,
HS kids know u stand a foot or more behind the line
WHY was he two inches from the line to begin with?? Either an idiotic play by a Sr or poor coaching
It never should have gotten to that point. The meltdown really started after the terrible MU possession with the five point lead. They missed a prayer of a deep three and never scored a FG again until the garbage time shot from Jones with .6 left. Unforced errors, missed layups, bad free throw shooting - this one really had all the ingredients of a complete giveaway.
Quote from: Viper on February 20, 2022, 07:28:40 PM
silly? Maybe, I suppose. Maybe not. But, you really didn't offer anything. It's hysterical that yes, Shaka is an upgrade over Woj? Or, it's hysterical because of course Shaka is not an upgrade? Is the BE stronger this year than in years past, or weaker? Is Marquette's conf record to this point impressive?...or not necessarily? I'm glad Woj is no longer coaching MU, but this season is trending more of the been there done that.
When I start to see significant team dissension and pathetic blow out losses, I'll start to compare this to a Wojo collapse.
Losing to good teams on the road is frustrating but not cause for panic.
Quote from: panda on February 20, 2022, 07:40:45 PM
When I start to see significant team dissension and pathetic blow out losses, I'll start to compare this to a Wojo collapse.
Losing to good teams on the road is frustrating but not cause for panic.
Marquette is playing as a 230ish ranked defense over the past 4 games against teams that aren't that good offensively.
It's no mystery why every team seems to have their best offensive game of the season when they play Marquette.
The trajectory is what's concerning. No reason to compare anything to Wojo. This is a new mess to sort through.
2 of the next 3 are at home so if they lose 1 or 2 of them and miss the tournament there is no one to blame but themselves.
Wojo teams never had accountability. Accountability needs to be had starting right now or the same things are going to happen.
Hopefully this team finds it again because I think they have the makeup to do damage, but they just are not always together.
Meanwhile, Providence remained composed while completing a 19 point comeback without its most clutch performer - Durham. Good teams find a way to win. Jay Wright and company do it year after year. I hope one day our program will demonstrate that type of poise and timely play making on a consistent basis. We're simply not there yet.
Quote from: Mu8891 on February 20, 2022, 07:36:39 PM
Terrible play by Elliot..,
HS kids know u stand a foot or more behind the line
WHY was he two inches from the line to begin with?? Either an idiotic play by a Sr or poor coaching
He always leans way forward. I always think he is about to step over the line.
The title says it all.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 20, 2022, 07:45:38 PM
Marquette is playing as a 230ish ranked defense over the past 4 games against teams that aren't that good offensively.
It's no mystery why every team seems to have their best offensive game of the season when they play Marquette.
The trajectory is what's concerning. No reason to compare anything to Wojo. This is a new mess to sort through.
2 of the next 3 are at home so if they lose 1 or 2 of them and miss the tournament there is no one to blame but themselves.
Wojo teams never had accountability. Accountability needs to be had starting right now or the same things are going to happen.
Hopefully this team finds it again because I think they have the makeup to do damage, but they just are not always together.
And despite all of that, we were in the game all four losses (on the road) against three top half conference teams and Butler who is playing much better ball.
Todays loss was wildly frustrating but not a sign of a larger sense of concern.
We played on the road , in an arena packed with 18,192 people against a decent team . We lost by one point.
I am confident MU will get back on a winning streak to end the season .
Quote from: bradforster on February 20, 2022, 07:46:23 PM
Meanwhile, Providence remained composed while completing a 19 point comeback without its most clutch performer - Durham. Good teams find a way to win. Jay Wright and company do it year after year. I hope one day our program will demonstrate that type of poise and timely play making on a consistent basis. We're simply not there yet.
It's Shaka's first year with a team that has 10 new players. I think we all expected an up and down season. People are just upset we are in a down part. The ups have also been higher than most expected.
There's growing pains, but I still feel this team is progressing.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 20, 2022, 08:41:25 PM
We played on the road , in an arena packed with 18,192 people against a decent team . We lost by one point.
I am confident MU will get back on a winning streak to end the season .
We lost by one point a game we gave away again. Giving Morsell PG duties at both ends of half was a mistake. Same result both times.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 20, 2022, 07:23:21 PM
While I would've liked Kolek in on the last play, I think Kalkbrenner is the reason he didn't really play in the second half. As I mentioned before the game, Creighton is a bad matchup because they are elite defending pick and roll. Tyler gets all his action off pick and roll, but Kalkbrenner kills him because he shuts down passing lanes with length and interior awareness and if Tyler drives to score, he gets smothered.
The biggest issue today is we probably locked ourselves into the 4/5 line in the BET and will see Creighton or UConn in the opener at MSG, which are our two worst matchups in the league.
Our best hope was wearing them down and it almost worked. We outscored them 20-10 from the 12-4 minute marks, but then turned it over twice and missed two no-footers while Creighton did just enough to escape. Probably needed some more press earlier.
Agree with all this, except I'm not the least bit afraid of Creighton in the BET.
We've played them twice and gave away both games. We didn't win, and there's no banner for almost beating Creighton, but they are not in the same class as UConn when it comes to a team I don't want to play.
I kind of like the idea of Creighton on Thursday, Providence on Friday and Nova on Saturday.
8 assists is a testimony to how bad our ball movement was (and Kolek's absence).
19-8 on PF's was a factor also.
Quote from: MU82 on February 20, 2022, 09:22:44 PM
Agree with all this, except I'm not the least bit afraid of Creighton in the BET.
We've played them twice and gave away both games. We didn't win, and there's no banner for almost beating Creighton, but they are not in the same class as UConn when it comes to a team I don't want to play.
I kind of like the idea of Creighton on Thursday, Providence on Friday and Nova on Saturday.
I'll take that stretch too
Quote from: Viper on February 20, 2022, 09:29:09 PM
I'll take that stretch too
More concerned with beating Butler, DePaul, and St. John's first.
Butler just had a 23 point lead on us and followed that up by losing to St. John's by almost 40.
We may have built a safety net on the resume, but we aren't playing any better than those 3 right now.
I'll worry about the BET if we can make it there in good shape.
We are trending down and have lost our momentum. Does not bode well.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 20, 2022, 07:45:38 PM
Marquette is playing as a 230ish ranked defense over the past 4 games against teams that aren't that good offensively.
It's no mystery why every team seems to have their best offensive game of the season when they play Marquette.
The trajectory is what's concerning. No reason to compare anything to Wojo. This is a new mess to sort through.
2 of the next 3 are at home so if they lose 1 or 2 of them and miss the tournament there is no one to blame but themselves.
Wojo teams never had accountability. Accountability needs to be had starting right now or the same things are going to happen.
Hopefully this team finds it again because I think they have the makeup to do damage, but they just are not always together.
Win 1/3 games and they're making the tournament. Concerning trend lately but missing the tournament isn't really a realistic concern at this point. Lose to a butler next weekend and the concern can become a little more legit. Done plenty of damage to our seeding in Feb tho.
Quote from: GoldenEagles03 on February 20, 2022, 11:03:17 PM
More concerned with beating Butler, DePaul, and St. John's first.
Butler just had a 23 point lead on us and followed that up by losing to St. John's by almost 40.
We may have built a safety net on the resume, but we aren't playing any better than those 3 right now.
I'll worry about the BET if we can make it there in good shape.
We will crush Butler. I can't wait to be part of the sold-out NMD crowd.
I'll worry about DePaul and St. John's after that.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 20, 2022, 07:23:21 PM
While I would've liked Kolek in on the last play, I think Kalkbrenner is the reason he didn't really play in the second half. As I mentioned before the game, Creighton is a bad matchup because they are elite defending pick and roll. Tyler gets all his action off pick and roll, but Kalkbrenner kills him because he shuts down passing lanes with length and interior awareness and if Tyler drives to score, he gets smothered.
The biggest issue today is we probably locked ourselves into the 4/5 line in the BET and will see Creighton or UConn in the opener at MSG, which are our two worst matchups in the league.
Our best hope was wearing them down and it almost worked. We outscored them 20-10 from the 12-4 minute marks, but then turned it over twice and missed two no-footers while Creighton did just enough to escape. Probably needed some more press earlier.
Missed layups have been a problem all season. Make those and no need to focus on last play or two of the game.