The MU brass just got taken to the cleaners by Wojo, Shaka and Texas... of course this is par for the course under the Lovell era where big money has been wasted and squandered countless times.
When you have a turkey coach with a big severance attached to his contract and you just had a season of no ticket revenues you reason with him and tell him let's create a win-win situation. You tell him we both need a change of scenery and it's time we part ways. However you don't want the "fired" stigma attached to your name and we don't want to have to pay you a lot more money not to be here anymore when we've already paid you a king's ransom the last seven years. Now please respond to those annual March coaching feelers from other programs and pick one to leave for this time.
You DON'T tell them to fire some assistants or "ELSE" when you know 1) that changing the assistants won't make any difference when the coach is a proven dud and 2) when the coach has the leverage of a big payout the university will have to pay him if he's defiant.
Well according to the SI article below the Texas brass apparently read The Art of the Deal as they were able to move Shaka out without having to absorb a big buyout and now get to use that money on other things which includes enticing a new coach they prefer.
https://www.si.com/college/texas/news/source-texas-longhorns-invited-coach-shaka-smart-to-leave-for-marquette
So Wojo, Shaka and Texas all played their cards right while Marquette came out as bumbling fools.
Shaka might be the right person and I am willing to see how he does. However eating a big buyout on one coach and then rushing to hire another program's future buyout just wreaks of incompetence. Worse yet this is a coach that apparently left us at the alter seven years ago so why so much love for him?
Had they saved the big severance and waited for Porter Moser's season to play out and then still felt Shaka was the best fit and/or Porter said no, then so be it. However it's clear we could very well have had Shaka a week or two weeks from now as well. So what happens now if Porter Moser goes on to another Final 4 or even wins the national title and then leaves for the Indiana job. We'll look even more stupid that we blew any chance at getting arguably the best college basketball coach in the country today over a guy with a lot of question marks. ?-( ::) :-[
I am about 99 percent sure he is not going to go to Indiana......
Holy unnatural carnal knowledge you must be a miserable human being
It's like clockwork.
Any hire is a crap shoot. He sees the potential downsides and isn't sold. He may get to talk smack to all of us in 5 years.
But the die is cast. Not much scoopers can do at this point.
That story makes no sense.....Shake could have taken the buyout AND still taken the Marquette deal.
Am I missing anything?
Go back to Facebook news moron
Stfu
You really have no idea how this played out, do you? Haha! If you did, you'd be grateful. You also must be a casual basketball observer who doesn't care about advanced metrics.
Do yourself, and the rest of us on this board, a favor and go read this article. Then come back and apologize.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2021/03/the-case-for-shaka-smart.html?m=1
Quote from: duanewade on March 26, 2021, 06:01:16 PM
The MU brass just got taken to the cleaners by Wojo, Shaka and Texas... of course this is par for the course under the Lovell era where big money has been wasted and squandered countless times.
When you have a turkey coach with a big severance attached to his contract and you just had a season of no ticket revenues you reason with him and tell him let's create a win-win situation. You tell him we both need a change of scenery and it's time we part ways. However you don't want the "fired" stigma attached to your name and we don't want to have pay you a lot more money not be here anymore when we've already paid you a king's ransom the last seven years. Now please respond to those annual March coaching feelers from other programs and pick one to leave for this time.
You DON'T tell them to fire some assistants or "ELSE" when you know 1) that changing the assistants won't make any difference when the coach is a proven dud and 2) when the coach has the leverage of a big payout the university will have to pay him if he's defiant.
Well according to the SI article below the Texas brass apparently read The Art of the Deal as they were able to move Shaka out without having to absorb a big buyout and now get to use that money on other things which includes enticing a new coach they prefer.
https://www.si.com/college/texas/news/source-texas-longhorns-invited-coach-shaka-smart-to-leave-for-marquette
So Wojo, Shaka and Texas all played their cards right while Marquette came out as bumbling fools.
Shaka might be the right person and am willing to see how he does. However eating a big buyout on one coach and then rushing to hire another program's future buyout just wreaks of incompetence. Worse yet this a coach that apparently left us at the alter seven years ago so why so much love for him?
Had they saved the big severance and waited for Porter Moser's season to play out and then still felt Shaka was the best fit and/or Porter said no, then so be it. However it's clear we could very well have had Shaka a week or two weeks from now as well. So what happens now if Porter Moser goes on to another Final 4 or even wins the national title and then leaves for the Indiana job. We'll look even more stupid that we blew any chance at getting arguably the best college basketball coach in the country today over a guy with a lot of question marks. ?-( ::) :-[
You are correct sir. MU, like the slurpers themselves, gave Wojo everything for having done nothing.
Porter's system takes 4 years to implement as it's dependent on seniors. Are you comfortable waiting those 4 years? In the meantime, how many players transfer in and out? What if Porter can't recruit 4* here? Are you comfy playing system ball that doesn't attract great players?
There's a lot of questions with Porter.......
Is it wrong to tell someone to go play in traffic?
MU just hired a young head coach with power 6 success and a final four on his resume - and people want to sh*t on it - absurd
I never post but this had to be responded to.
So Texas is a genius for paying Beard's buyout. Marquette is dumb for paying Wojo's?
Each school will be paying a buyout, I don't see how this is genius. If Texas had someone waiting in the wings and didnt have to pay buyout I would agree but that is not at all the story they are spinning here. They both get what they want and pay for it.
Texas wasn't "spared" the buyout. It was likely split with MU. MU Spent at the the upmost 8 to 9 million dollars to make the transition/ (buyout wojo/split the fee with UT). And the majority of that was done with one donation.
Chris Beards buyout drops to 4 million in April. I expect UT to spend it.
Quote from: jfp61 on March 26, 2021, 06:20:51 PM
Texas wasn't "spared" the buyout. It was likely split with MU. MU Spent at the the upmost 8 to 9 million dollars to make the transition/ (buyout wojo/split the fee with UT). And the majority of that was done with one donation.
Chris Beards buyout drops to 4 million in April. I expect UT to spend it.
I'm not following the math. Wojo was due ~$9M on his contract which MU would have paid. A split fee with UT would bring MU's total to ~&13M.
We didn't pay ~$13M to go from Wojo to Shaka
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 26, 2021, 06:10:06 PM
That story makes no sense.....Shake could have taken the buyout AND still taken the Marquette deal.
Am I missing anything?
No. You are not missing a thing. Essentially duane thinks the stigma of getting fired, even with another program ready to hire you, is worth giving away millions.
Quote from: duanewade on March 26, 2021, 06:01:16 PM
So what happens now if Porter Moser goes on to another Final 4 or even wins the national title and then leaves for the Indiana job. We'll look even more stupid that we blew any chance at getting arguably the best college basketball coach in the country today over a guy with a lot of question marks. ?-( ::) :-[
:o :o :o
That's certainly...an argument
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 26, 2021, 06:12:54 PM
You really have no idea how this played out, do you? Haha! If you did, you'd be grateful. You also must be a casual basketball observer who doesn't care about advanced metrics.
Do yourself, and the rest of us on this board, a favor and go read this article. Then come back and apologize.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2021/03/the-case-for-shaka-smart.html?m=1
Hardly any space given to Shaka's prized recruits at Texas flaming out again and again and again in the NCAAs. Just brushed off with a ridiculous "tough luck" excuse and no stats showing who his teams lost to or what their respective seeds were, etc.
Quote from: duanewade on March 26, 2021, 06:01:16 PM
The MU brass just got taken to the cleaners by Wojo, Shaka and Texas... of course this is par for the course under the Lovell era where big money has been wasted and squandered countless times.
When you have a turkey coach with a big severance attached to his contract and you just had a season of no ticket revenues you reason with him and tell him let's create a win-win situation. You tell him we both need a change of scenery and it's time we part ways. However you don't want the "fired" stigma attached to your name and we don't want to have to pay you a lot more money not be here anymore when we've already paid you a king's ransom the last seven years. Now please respond to those annual March coaching feelers from other programs and pick one to leave for this time.
You DON'T tell them to fire some assistants or "ELSE" when you know 1) that changing the assistants won't make any difference when the coach is a proven dud and 2) when the coach has the leverage of a big payout the university will have to pay him if he's defiant.
Well according to the SI article below the Texas brass apparently read The Art of the Deal as they were able to move Shaka out without having to absorb a big buyout and now get to use that money on other things which includes enticing a new coach they prefer.
https://www.si.com/college/texas/news/source-texas-longhorns-invited-coach-shaka-smart-to-leave-for-marquette
So Wojo, Shaka and Texas all played their cards right while Marquette came out as bumbling fools.
Shaka might be the right person and am willing to see how he does. However eating a big buyout on one coach and then rushing to hire another program's future buyout just wreaks of incompetence. Worse yet this a coach that apparently left us at the alter seven years ago so why so much love for him?
Had they saved the big severance and waited for Porter Moser's season to play out and then still felt Shaka was the best fit and/or Porter said no, then so be it. However it's clear we could very well have had Shaka a week or two weeks from now as well. So what happens now if Porter Moser goes on to another Final 4 or even wins the national title and then leaves for the Indiana job. We'll look even more stupid that we blew any chance at getting arguably the best college basketball coach in the country today over a guy with a lot of question marks. ?-( ::) :-[
Hmm.... when we gave Buzz the boot that didn't work out so bad for Virginia Tech. Karma works in strange ways.
You lost me when you referenced The Art of the Deal.
Quote from: duanewade on March 26, 2021, 06:01:16 PM
Well according to the SI article below the Texas brass apparently read The Art of the Deal as they were able to move Shaka out without having to absorb a big buyout and now get to use that money on other things which includes enticing a new coach they prefer.
So UT is filing for bankruptcy?
This is peak scoop
Quote from: naginiF on March 26, 2021, 06:26:05 PM
I'm not following the math. Wojo was due ~$9M on his contract which MU would have paid. A split fee with UT would bring MU's total to ~&13M.
We didn't pay ~$13M to go from Wojo to Shaka
Usually a buyout doesn't require you to pay the full remainder of the agreement. Usually it is some lower version of that. In all of the articles, it is stated no one really knows the buyout but it could be $6m.
If Texas invited Shaka to take the job the probably waved the buyout or straightest let me out of the agreement. I wouldn't be surprised if MU got out for <$5M total.
We are probably out of money now!!!!!!
I don't give a sh*t what we spent. We've been putrid for 7 years and it's affecting the entire university. Today is a great, great day for Marquette. Book it.
https://images.app.goo.gl/ZZiCeCHg2P5Mpad66
Quote from: Judge Smails on March 26, 2021, 06:43:44 PM
You lost me when you referenced The Art of the Deal.
The correct title of the book is: The 15 Million Dollar Average Coach - The Wojo Story
Quote from: connie on March 26, 2021, 06:29:09 PM
No. You are not missing a thing. Essentially duane thinks the stigma of getting fired, even with another program ready to hire you, is worth giving away millions.
That's how I see it. Shaka ironically had a lot of leverage if Texas wanted a split and Marquette wanted a marriage.
Unless Texas "cut a deal" with Marquette not to have to pay some kind of poison pill provision.
Well, we will know soon as Texas is subject to FOIA requests for info.
Why does anyone here care about the money? I must have missed the memo because I didn't know we were asked to chip in.
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on March 26, 2021, 07:07:35 PM
We are probably out of money now!!!!!!
[/quote
MU has rich Alumni, MU did not pay out Wojo's buyout!
Quote from: bradforster on March 26, 2021, 07:28:46 PM
Why does anyone here care about the money? I must have missed the memo because I didn't know we were asked to chip in.
It's Scoop. People need stuff to b!tch about.
The Art of the Deal was about paying off porn stars...you know we hired Smart...not Pitino...
You can argue the extension was a bad commitment certainly. However the decisions over the last week+ by whomever our benefactor(s) is/are should be only greeted with thanks.
Here's to you
(https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.mediapost.com/dam/cropped/2020/12/24/millertoast_ZMpjguW.jpg)
Quote from: BCHoopster on March 26, 2021, 07:31:56 PM
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on March 26, 2021, 07:07:35 PM
We are probably out of money now!!!!!!
[/quote
MU has rich Alumni, MU did not pay out Wojo's buyout!
I meant to put mine in teal.
Nobody is worried about money.
There was a mutual parting of the ways with Smart at Texas thus allowing Marquette to get a deal done without a buyout......(Chris Beard will be announced at Texas any time after April 1st)
Because of the dispute over an "associate head coach".....Marquette liked everything Wojo was about except in game coaching, strategy, and player development......The buyout at Marquette..... because of this dispute..... was again a mutual parting.....Thus the buyout was probably some negotiated number.....Probably a year's salary.....So probably $2 mil.....Don't feel sorry for Wojo.....
Moser was probably in the mix until "the timing" just was too much to overcome.....Players....Recruits....Other openings.....etc...etc.....
IU....Oklahoma.....Texas......and possibly our biggest competition......ND in the near future.....
We closed the deal.....Took care of a lot of concerns.....Lets move on and dethrone Villanova as soon as friggin possible.....In my world.....
If MU came to me and said we both need a change...you don't want the stigma of being fired...and we don't want to pay...so let's part on good terms...you go your way and we'll go ours.
What? I've been fired. No biggie. No stigma. Take the freakin' money!!!
Smart's Texas record is meh...just like Wojo at MU. As a result, I'm not stoked over this hire. And, I'm no fan of Lovell, but Lovell didn't get 'played'...and you always take the $$.
Quote from: burger on March 26, 2021, 07:46:52 PM
There was a mutual parting of the ways with Smart at Texas thus allowing Marquette to get a deal done without a buyout......(Chris Beard will be announced at Texas any time after April 1st)
Because of the dispute over an "associate head coach".....Marquette liked everything Wojo was about except in game coaching, strategy, and player development......The buyout at Marquette..... because of this dispute..... was again a mutual parting.....Thus the buyout was probably some negotiated number.....Probably a year's salary.....So probably $2 mil.....Don't feel sorry for Wojo.....
Moser was probably in the mix until "the timing" just was too much to overcome.....Players....Recruits....Other openings.....etc...etc.....
IU....Oklahoma.....Texas......and possibly our biggest competition......ND in the near future.....
We closed the deal.....Took care of a lot of concerns.....Lets move on and dethrone Villanova as soon as friggin possible.....In my world.....
Fantasy. We paid the buyout. Absolutely zero chance wojo just decides to walk away from 3 years of cash.
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on March 26, 2021, 06:32:17 PM
Hardly any space given to Shaka's prized recruits at Texas flaming out again and again and again in the NCAAs. Just brushed off with a ridiculous "tough luck" excuse and no stats showing who his teams lost to or what their respective seeds were, etc.
Who did you want Marquette to hire as a head coach? Moser is still in the NCAA tournament. While Marquette may be a job he's interested in, there is no guarantee. You have to play the hand you're dealt. I would love to know what you think Marquette could have done bette.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2021, 08:17:09 PM
Fantasy. We paid the buyout. Absolutely zero chance wojo just decides to walk away from 3 years of cash.
Incorrect. Marquette did not pay the buyout. a select few Booster's paid the buyout.
The elephant in the room is that MU was never going to hire another white guy as coach due to significant pressure from multiple woke groups. That gave Shake a leg up and MU took the easy way out.
Shaka's best years are way behind him. You realize he was at VCU almost 10 years ago? He now has F&$! you money. He bailed on us 7 years ago, did the brain trust ask him about that?
He wanted out of UT, not into MU. He just took the first deal available and got a lucrative deal to come home because he couldn't take the heat in Texas
I will support him, but will I be called an unwoke racist if I criticize him?
Quote from: PhillyWarrior on March 26, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
The elephant in the room is that MU was never going to hire another white guy as coach due to significant pressure from multiple woke groups. That gave Shake a leg up and MU took the easy way out.
Shaka's best years are way behind him. You realize he was at VCU almost 10 years ago? He now has F&$! you money. He bailed on us 7 years ago, did the brain trust ask him about that?
He wanted out of UT, not into MU. He just took the first deal available and got a lucrative deal to come home because he couldn't take the heat in Texas
I will support him, but will I be called an unwoke racist if I criticize him?
Mind blowing
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 26, 2021, 08:17:09 PM
Fantasy. We paid the buyout. Absolutely zero chance wojo just decides to walk away from 3 years of cash.
Agree, you think he is not going to take the contractual buyout? Lots of naive posters lurking. This scenario is exactly why it was in his contract
Quote from: PhillyWarrior on March 26, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
The elephant in the room is that MU was never going to hire another white guy as coach due to significant pressure from multiple woke groups. That gave Shake a leg up and MU took the easy way out.
Shaka's best years are way behind him. You realize he was at VCU almost 10 years ago? He now has F&$! you money. He bailed on us 7 years ago, did the brain trust ask him about that?
He wanted out of UT, not into MU. He just took the first deal available and got a lucrative deal to come home because he couldn't take the heat in Texas
I will support him, but will I be called an unwoke racist if I criticize him?
You should meet MUwarrior69
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 26, 2021, 08:59:05 PM
Mind blowing
So you don't think diversity played a significant part of the "must have" list?
Get Woke man!
Hadn't thought about it for a nanosecond. It is 2021. Coach Smart has the best resume of any coach MU has ever hired. Nothing is guaranteed. Nope, still not going to give it a nanosecond of thought.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 26, 2021, 08:48:03 PM
Incorrect. Marquette did not pay the buyout. a select few Booster's paid the buyout.
Thanks for being pedantic!
Free advice- don't waste your time reading Art of the Deal. Better you take Hydroxychloroquine.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 26, 2021, 06:12:54 PM
You really have no idea how this played out, do you? Haha! If you did, you'd be grateful. You also must be a casual basketball observer who doesn't care about advanced metrics.
Do yourself, and the rest of us on this board, a favor and go read this article. Then come back and apologize.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2021/03/the-case-for-shaka-smart.html?m=1
LOLLLLLLL the condescending fart sniffing stat-humpers are all coming out of the woodwork lately. The funniest part is they're all making the biggest stretches possible, absolutely torturing & misinterpreting stats and acting like it's checkmate. Very very funny to me!
Can't wait to get high as hell on top 40 KenPom defenses with y'all!
Regardless of who MU hired, a thread like this would have been started. There was no perfect candidate. None that would have pleased 100% of the fan base. There are ample statistics out there regarding Shaka to buttress the entire spectrum. And sadly but not surprisingly, melanin is an issue to some.
I choose optimism. Coach Smart is the new face of Marquette basketball. I want him to succeed.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 26, 2021, 09:19:19 PM
LOLLLLLLL the condescending fart sniffing stat-humpers are all coming out of the woodwork lately. The funniest part is they're all making the biggest stretches possible, absolutely torturing & misinterpreting stats and acting like it's checkmate. Very very funny to me!
Can't wait to get high as hell on top 40 KenPom defenses with y'all!
I'd suggest you grab some season tickets at the Gentile Center next year. You're not handling the end of your Moser dream very well
moronic bitch baby post. The only realistic option i would have barely took over smart was porter. And when it comes to what are the odds smart has more succes here than porter or vice versa.... imo its a freakin coin flip. Are really gonna bitch and moan immediatly??? Fire shaka? damn its pathetic. Good hire MU> Lets go coach smart.
None of us knows what happened behind closed doors in the McGuire Center and in Austin.
We shouldn't act like we do.
There are factors and considerations involved that Bill Scholls and Dr. Lovell knew that we don't -- and may never. What we know is we now have a coach who can recruit and who has experienced the type of success we long for. It's time to either rally up and get behind the team or find another school to support.
In other words, the die is cast. The bitching needs to stop.
Quote from: JWags85 on March 26, 2021, 09:29:36 PM
I'd suggest you grab some season tickets at the Gentile Center next year. You're not handling the end of your Moser dream very well
I'm dead serious, I can't wait
Wow ... this is some thread.
Oh man, these delicious page views. Gonna be a good night at Arby's tonight.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 26, 2021, 06:05:14 PM
Holy unnatural carnal knowledge you must be a miserable human being
Spot on
Saw this and think it belongs here..
(https://i.redd.it/qfbknk5y9dp61.jpg)
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 26, 2021, 09:33:20 PM
None of us knows what happened behind closed doors in the McGuire Center and in Austin.
We shouldn't act like we do.
There are factors and considerations involved that Bill Scholls and Dr. Lovell knew that we don't -- and may never. What we know is we now have a coach who can recruit and who has experienced the type of success we long for. It's time to either rally up and get behind the team or find another school to support.
In other words, the die is cast. The bitching needs to stop.
The type of success we long for is a 52-56 conference record with Texas?
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on March 26, 2021, 10:36:46 PM
The type of success we long for is a 52-56 conference record with Texas?
He was a disappointing hire for the Longhorns after his successful run at VCU.
Smart was 109-86 in six seasons and 51-56 in Big 12 play. During those six seasons, the Longhorns never came close to winning a Big 12 championship and couldn't finish any higher than third. He was also 24-40 against ranked opponents.
Texas made only three NCAA Tournament appearances over the past six seasons. All three ended in one-and-done fashion, including last Saturday's loss to 14th-seeded Abilene Christian.
This sounds a lot like Wojo 2.0. No idea what the reason is for the optimistic outlook and all the excitement.
Quote from: WarriorHal on March 26, 2021, 10:48:30 PM
He was a disappointing hire for the Longhorns after his successful run at VCU.
Smart was 109-86 in six seasons and 51-56 in Big 12 play. During those six seasons, the Longhorns never came close to winning a Big 12 championship and couldn't finish any higher than third. He was also 24-40 against ranked opponents.
Texas made only three NCAA Tournament appearances over the past six seasons. All three ended in one-and-done fashion, including last Saturday's loss to 14th-seeded Abilene Christian.
This sounds a lot like Wojo 2.0. No idea what the reason is for the optimistic outlook and all the excitement.
I guess the vast majority here are thinking MU is getting the red-hot up and comer from years ago who spurned MU for the Longhorns.
IMO, they're getting a guy who couldn't do anything with top recruiting classes at Texas.
Is he better than Wojo? Sure, but most anyone would be.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 26, 2021, 07:07:52 PM
I don't give a sh*t what we spent. We've been putrid for 7 years and it's affecting the entire university. Today is a great, great day for Marquette. Book it.
I like your confidence PRN! Hope you are right.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 26, 2021, 09:33:20 PM
None of us knows what happened behind closed doors in the McGuire Center and in Austin.
We shouldn't act like we do.
There are factors and considerations involved that Bill Scholls and Dr. Lovell knew that we don't -- and may never. What we know is we now have a coach who can recruit and who has experienced the type of success we long for. It's time to either rally up and get behind the team or find another school to support.
In other words, the die is cast. The bitching needs to stop.
100% correct.
Quote from: PhillyWarrior on March 26, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
The elephant in the room is that MU was never going to hire another white guy as coach due to significant pressure from multiple woke groups. That gave Shake a leg up and MU took the easy way out.
Shaka's best years are way behind him. You realize he was at VCU almost 10 years ago? He now has F&$! you money. He bailed on us 7 years ago, did the brain trust ask him about that?
He wanted out of UT, not into MU. He just took the first deal available and got a lucrative deal to come home because he couldn't take the heat in Texas
I will support him, but will I be called an unwoke racist if I criticize him?
I am about as liberal as they come. And I DO NOT like the Shaka hire, but I could not disagree with you more. This is not a "woke" hire. This is who Scholl wanted - as much as I disagree with it.
I too think that MU should not hire a guy who spurned us 7 years ago, who has done nothing at Texas to warrant us hiring him, and who is looking for a new gig because he was not successful at his previous one.
Scholl saw something he likes about Shaka and didn't want to wait. It's that simple. Nothing "woke" about it.
This is exactly why I was advocating for Brad Stevens, John Calipari or Jay Wright as our next coach. Why settle when the Marquette job is a destination, blue blood opening?
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on March 26, 2021, 10:58:56 PM
I guess the vast majority here are thinking MU is getting the red-hot up and comer from years ago who spurned MU for the Longhorns.
IMO, they're getting a guy who couldn't do anything with top recruiting classes at Texas.
Is he better than Wojo? Sure, but most anyone would be.
My argument against this is that it's hard to win when you have 1 and dones in the program. Look at what Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas did this year...1 tourney win combined. I don't think you'll see that at MU as Shaka's recruiting will suffer a bit compared to Texas. Many of his recruits were in state at Texas and that won't translate to MU. You'll see 4 and 3 star recruits at MU which may be a better thing if he can get a senior laden squad together for a run.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 26, 2021, 11:08:04 PM
My argument against this is that it's hard to win when you have 1 and dones in the program. Look at what Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas did this year...1 tourney win combined. I don't think you'll see that at MU as Shaka's recruiting will suffer a bit compared to Texas. Many of his recruits were in state at Texas and that won't translate to MU. You'll see 4 and 3 star recruits at MU which may be a better thing if he can get a senior laden squad together for a run.
1,000,000%
Does Joplin follow him along to MU?
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 26, 2021, 11:08:04 PM
My argument against this is that it's hard to win when you have 1 and dones in the program. Look at what Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas did this year...1 tourney win combined. I don't think you'll see that at MU as Shaka's recruiting will suffer a bit compared to Texas. Many of his recruits were in state at Texas and that won't translate to MU. You'll see 4 and 3 star recruits at MU which may be a better thing if he can get a senior laden squad together for a run.
I'm not so sure. His last 5 classes, including 2021's class, he signed 15 top 100 players. 9 of those were out of state, including his last 2 lottery picks. He won't get the Texas guys, sure. But he grabbed top guys from Minnesota, Ohio, Missouri, Florida, and NE prep schools in the last couple classes alone.
Quote from: T.V. Diener 34 on March 26, 2021, 11:18:17 PM
Does Joplin follow him along to MU?
I would say there's a good chance. It's all dependent on what Joplin's motivations were on playing for Texas. Majority of the time it's the coach, but there are times that players play at places because of the chemistry they have with the players and campus itself.
A lot of misinformation in the OP.
MU did not pay the majority of the buyout for Wojo. Donors stepped up to do it. Maybe that means there's an opportunity cost for future donations but not a significant actual cost.
MU also did not pay Shaka's buyout. An agreement was met with Texas.
I would also not assume that Shaka is getting more than Wojo. We'll need to wait a few years for that confirmation.
Given the breath of life that this hire will bring the program, I think it will be an excellent short term financial decision. Whether or not it is an excellent long term financial decision will all depend on how Shaka performs. But that's the case any time you hire a new coach.
Quote from: PhillyWarrior on March 26, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
The elephant in the room is that MU was never going to hire another white guy as coach due to significant pressure from multiple woke groups. That gave Shake a leg up and MU took the easy way out.
Shaka's best years are way behind him. You realize he was at VCU almost 10 years ago? He now has F&$! you money. He bailed on us 7 years ago, did the brain trust ask him about that?
He wanted out of UT, not into MU. He just took the first deal available and got a lucrative deal to come home because he couldn't take the heat in Texas
I will support him, but will I be called an unwoke racist if I criticize him?
I feel reasonably confident in saying that if Texas had made the S16 this year, that Moser would have been MU's coach next year. And he's pretty white.
Quote from: Mutaman on March 26, 2021, 09:18:57 PM
Free advice- don't waste your time reading Art of the Deal. Better you take Hydroxychloroquine.
so says a Mut
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 26, 2021, 11:08:04 PM
My argument against this is that it's hard to win when you have 1 and dones in the program. Look at what Kentucky, Duke, UNC, Kansas did this year...1 tourney win combined. I don't think you'll see that at MU as Shaka's recruiting will suffer a bit compared to Texas. Many of his recruits were in state at Texas and that won't translate to MU. You'll see 4 and 3 star recruits at MU which may be a better thing if he can get a senior laden squad together for a run.
The problem with that thinking it is not based in the new reality. One and done no longer means leaving for the NBA. The transfer portal will probably average over 1000 players each year with the new one time waiver. That averages out to about 3 players. it's not a MU or Shaka problem but across the sport. It will be nearly impossible to have a senior laden team unless the bulk of seniors are transfers in.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 27, 2021, 12:07:06 AM
A lot of misinformation in the OP.
MU did not pay the majority of the buyout for Wojo. Donors stepped up to do it. Maybe that means there's an opportunity cost for future donations but not a significant actual cost.
MU also did not pay Shaka's buyout. An agreement was met with Texas.
I would also not assume that Shaka is getting more than Wojo. We'll need to wait a few years for that confirmation.
Given the breath of life that this hire will bring the program, I think it will be an excellent short term financial decision. Whether or not it is an excellent long term financial decision will all depend on how Shaka performs. But that's the case any time you hire a new coach.
You win the award for the most reasonable post in this thread.
Congratulations. 🏆
Quote from: MU82 on March 26, 2021, 09:38:45 PM
Wow ... this is some thread.
Isn't it? I was just thinking of how it a prism into the inner workings of this board. Some insights. A bit of inside scoop. Some reasoned analysis. Then a slide into elephants in the room....... Then some actual basketball talk. Wrapped up with some name calling.
Quote from: PhillyWarrior on March 26, 2021, 08:57:32 PM
The elephant in the room is that MU was never going to hire another white guy as coach due to significant pressure from multiple woke groups. That gave Shake a leg up and MU took the easy way out.
Shaka's best years are way behind him. You realize he was at VCU almost 10 years ago? He now has F&$! you money. He bailed on us 7 years ago, did the brain trust ask him about that?
He wanted out of UT, not into MU. He just took the first deal available and got a lucrative deal to come home because he couldn't take the heat in Texas
I will support him, but will I be called an unwoke racist if I criticize him?
If Shaka leads us to the promised land, nobody will give a rats backside about his race, gender or anything else. We will love him as much as we loved Al.
Conversely, if he fails, I promise we will give him exactly the same treatment Wojo got. Marquette fans are non-discriminatory. We hate losing no matter who is leading us.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 27, 2021, 07:57:35 AM
If Shaka leads us to the promised land, nobody will give a rats backside about his race, gender or anything else. We will love him as much as we loved Al.
Conversely, if he fails, I promise we will give him exactly the same treatment Wojo got. Marquette fans are non-discriminatory. We hate losing no matter who is leading us.
Probably should not paint with that broad of a brush.
Not to mention the "woke groups" don't really have any pull around the basketball program......
By the way, none of our vastly African-American student athletes had an issue playing for a white coach. No one here should trouble themselves with the race of the coach, either.
One love. Have a great weekend, everybody. MU Ra Ra.
I think people should watch Jerels video that Mr Nielsen posted about what this means to him.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 26, 2021, 11:02:56 PM
I like your confidence PRN! Hope you are right.
I'm with Rican, Goose, and others here who exude enthusiasm. MU hoops are going uptown with Shaka. For those who thought Woj was a good recruiter, hold on y'all, because Marquette will soon be at the table with players Woj couldn't even get to return his phone call.
In short, Shaka gives us instant credibility, and with that, I am confident of achieving the success we all crave and deserve, aina?
Doc,
I gave Wojo credit for chasing some big names, but agree on his recruiting overall. That was the ONLY hope I had that he could compete at bubble team level. Shaka will knock it out off the park on the recruiting front and the sky is the limit. I actually think he will field a very competitive team this upcoming season.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 27, 2021, 12:07:06 AM
A lot of misinformation in the OP.
MU did not pay the majority of the buyout for Wojo. Donors stepped up to do it. Maybe that means there's an opportunity cost for future donations but not a significant actual cost.
MU also did not pay Shaka's buyout. An agreement was met with Texas.
I would also not assume that Shaka is getting more than Wojo. We'll need to wait a few years for that confirmation.
Given the breath of life that this hire will bring the program, I think it will be an excellent short term financial decision. Whether or not it is an excellent long term financial decision will all depend on how Shaka performs. But that's the case any time you hire a new coach.
Reasonable and well-reasoned post, TAMU.
Last paragraph definitely resonates. Had Wojo returned, there was going to be a huge hit to season tickets and a dramatic overall attendance falloff. With Shaka, ticket sales likely will increase. The difference probably will pay for whatever MU had to pony up to dump Wojo and get Shaka, and then some. I have already heard from a half-dozen people saying they are interested in season tickets for the first time, and my best buds from my Marquette days - all of whom no longer live in the Midwest - are already talking about how many games we should try to attend.
I have seen a bunch of negotiated buyouts.......$7 million.....So Wojo was making 2.3 a year with 3 years left......On a mutual parting that has been "spun"......The buyout would be one year's salary but certainly not more than 2 years.....
So the probability of a $3ish level buyout is the standard practice.....Especially when he could be "fired for cause" and would have to "litigate" his $$$.....(cause: not accepting an associate head coach or some spin on that subject).....No one wants that scenario.....and money in the hand...etc...etc.....
So 3ish +/- 500 would be my educated opinion......
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 27, 2021, 08:20:00 AM
I'm with Rican, Goose, and others here who exude enthusiasm. MU hoops are going uptown with Shaka. For those who thought Woj was a good recruiter, hold on y'all, because Marquette will soon be at the table with players Woj couldn't even get to return his phone call.
In short, Shaka gives us instant credibility, and with that, I am confident of achieving the success we all crave and deserve, aina?
Agreed. I've already made multiple bets with friends (MSU and Iowa alums) that we'll make the final 4 in Shaka's first 5 years.
I'm confident in that
Quote from: Goose on March 27, 2021, 08:24:37 AM
Doc,
I gave Wojo credit for chasing some big names, but agree on his recruiting overall. That was the ONLY hope I had that he could compete at bubble team level. Shaka will knock it out off the park on the recruiting front and the sky is the limit. I actually think he will field a very competitive team this upcoming season.
I think you are right and your last sentence is why he was the best choice of those rumored to be in consideration.
Quote from: swoopem on March 27, 2021, 08:35:58 AM
Agreed. I've already made multiple bets with friends (MSU and Iowa alums) that we'll make the final 4 in Shaka's first 5 years.
I'm confident in that
These are confident words and I hope you are right, but 5 years? What in Shakas most recent years leads you to believe this?
Quote from: dad's couch on March 27, 2021, 07:39:08 AM
The problem with that thinking it is not based in the new reality. One and done no longer means leaving for the NBA. The transfer portal will probably average over 1000 players each year with the new one time waiver. That averages out to about 3 players. it's not a MU or Shaka problem but across the sport. It will be nearly impossible to have a senior laden team unless the bulk of seniors are transfers in.
I know a football player who spent a year at a fancy prep school playing center. Then a year in a fancy Div. 3 football program, playing center. Then transfered to a Div.. I program. Some kids develop after their senior year of high school. There are many ways to get ahead and today everything is really the so-called gig economy.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 26, 2021, 09:33:20 PM
None of us knows what happened behind closed doors in the McGuire Center and in Austin.
We shouldn't act like we do.
The bitching needs to stop.
What? And ruin Scoop?
Hubris and outrage is what makes Scoop what it is! How dare you!
Quote from: dad's couch on March 27, 2021, 07:39:08 AM
The problem with that thinking it is not based in the new reality. One and done no longer means leaving for the NBA. The transfer portal will probably average over 1000 players each year with the new one time waiver. That averages out to about 3 players. it's not a MU or Shaka problem but across the sport. It will be nearly impossible to have a senior laden team unless the bulk of seniors are transfers in.
I mean.....it's not difficult to add a senior or two from the transfer portal. Transfer portal is now another tool to augment a team and get rid of perceived talent that never pans out. I think if anything, the transfer rules affect mid majors more as the bigger programs are more apt to steal their players. Meanwhile, the overrated talent in the Power 5 goes to mid majors for more playing time. What makes it even more interesting and more intimidating to mid major programs is the ability of Power 5 conferences to pay players. Power 5 will be able to pluck whoever they want and offer a stream of income.
I was just thinking about the title of this thread and wish we had been taken to the cleaners about four years ago.
Quote from: Goose on March 27, 2021, 11:38:35 AM
I was just thinking about the title of this thread and wish we had been taken to the cleaners about four years ago.
*Nate Oats has entered the chat*
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 27, 2021, 11:33:07 AM
I mean.....it's not difficult to add a senior or two from the transfer portal. Transfer portal is now another tool to augment a team and get rid of perceived talent that never pans out. I think if anything, the transfer rules affect mid majors more as the bigger programs are more apt to steal their players. Meanwhile, the overrated talent in the Power 5 goes to mid majors for more playing time. What makes it even more interesting and more intimidating to mid major programs is the ability of Power 5 conferences to pay players. Power 5 will be able to pluck whoever they want and offer a stream of income.
IMHO this actually will help mid-majors, as a steady stream of decent but not quite good enough players go from 8th-11th men on majors to starters in mid-majors. Think of Sandy Cohen or Traci Carter types.
A lot more of those than of mid-major superstars ready to play big roles on majors.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 27, 2021, 11:40:26 AM
*Nate Oats has entered the chat*
Exactly. Woulda, Could, Shoulda
As The Chairman of the Board once observed, "Regrets, I've had a few..."
Quote from: MU82 on March 27, 2021, 11:44:07 AM
IMHO this actually will help mid-majors, as a steady stream of decent but not quite good enough players go from 8th-11th men on majors to starters in mid-majors. Think of Sandy Cohen or Traci Carter types.
A lot more of those than of mid-major superstars ready to play big roles on majors.
From a playing time perspective this helps everyone. There will be an advantage for those coaches that can identify the right recruits and limit turnover. Less ins and outs should lead to more cohesion and team success.
Quote from: keefe on March 27, 2021, 11:46:51 AM
Exactly. Woulda, Could, Shoulda
As The Chairman of the Board once observed, "Regrets, I've had a few..."
Right. A year ago people were questioning whether or not Bama and Oats were right for one another.
Quote from: Norm on March 26, 2021, 11:06:55 PM
I am about as liberal as they come. And I DO NOT like the Shaka hire, but I could not disagree with you more. This is not a "woke" hire. This is who Scholl wanted - as much as I disagree with it.
I too think that MU should not hire a guy who spurned us 7 years ago, who has done nothing at Texas to warrant us hiring him, and who is looking for a new gig because he was not successful at his previous one.
Scholl saw something he likes about Shaka and didn't want to wait. It's that simple. Nothing "woke" about it.
You can stop this 'spurned' talk. You sound like a jilted lover. Get over it. We were a dumpster fire of a program when Buzz walked out the door. We had no AD, our coach ran from us (while not 100% true, this is the national perception) to a worse job... who can blame the guy for being cautious?
Quote from: keefe on March 27, 2021, 11:29:27 AM
What? And ruin Scoop?
Hubris and outrage is what makes Scoop what it is! How dare you!
Keefe telling it like it is.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 27, 2021, 12:19:15 PM
You can stop this 'spurned' talk. You sound like a jilted lover. Get over it. We were a dumpster fire of a program when Buzz walked out the door. We had no AD, our coach ran from us (while not 100% true, this is the national perception) to a worse job... who can blame the guy for being cautious?
I hadn't considered that before. Good point. From my POV the return to Wild/Cords in 2013 to replace Pilarz/Williams was a return to stability.
Quote from: duanewade on March 26, 2021, 06:01:16 PM
The MU brass just got taken to the cleaners by Wojo, Shaka and Texas... of course this is par for the course under the Lovell era where big money has been wasted and squandered countless times.
When you have a turkey coach with a big severance attached to his contract and you just had a season of no ticket revenues you reason with him and tell him let's create a win-win situation. You tell him we both need a change of scenery and it's time we part ways. However you don't want the "fired" stigma attached to your name and we don't want to have to pay you a lot more money not to be here anymore when we've already paid you a king's ransom the last seven years. Now please respond to those annual March coaching feelers from other programs and pick one to leave for this time.
You DON'T tell them to fire some assistants or "ELSE" when you know 1) that changing the assistants won't make any difference when the coach is a proven dud and 2) when the coach has the leverage of a big payout the university will have to pay him if he's defiant.
Well according to the SI article below the Texas brass apparently read The Art of the Deal as they were able to move Shaka out without having to absorb a big buyout and now get to use that money on other things which includes enticing a new coach they prefer.
https://www.si.com/college/texas/news/source-texas-longhorns-invited-coach-shaka-smart-to-leave-for-marquette
So Wojo, Shaka and Texas all played their cards right while Marquette came out as bumbling fools.
Shaka might be the right person and I am willing to see how he does. However eating a big buyout on one coach and then rushing to hire another program's future buyout just wreaks of incompetence. Worse yet this is a coach that apparently left us at the alter seven years ago so why so much love for him?
Had they saved the big severance and waited for Porter Moser's season to play out and then still felt Shaka was the best fit and/or Porter said no, then so be it. However it's clear we could very well have had Shaka a week or two weeks from now as well. So what happens now if Porter Moser goes on to another Final 4 or even wins the national title and then leaves for the Indiana job. We'll look even more stupid that we blew any chance at getting arguably the best college basketball coach in the country today over a guy with a lot of question marks. ?-( ::) :-[
Fyi... The incompetence happened at the end of the 2018-2019 season when Wojo got extended.
What happened the last couple weeks is absorbing a sunk cost to move on to better things. It's simply charging off an impaired asset.
Not a fun thing to do but needed and required to move on (and up).
Quote from: Skatastrophy on March 27, 2021, 12:24:22 PM
I hadn't considered that before. Good point. From my POV the return to Wild/Cords in 2013 to replace Pilarz/Williams was a return to stability.
Stable mediocrity. Though pilarz was a train wreck as far as athletics.
Quote from: Blackhat on March 27, 2021, 02:53:48 PM
Stable mediocrity. Though pilarz was a train wreck as far as athletics.
You're a Larry Williams fan?
Wild and Cords hired Crean and Buzz. Bad hires in your view?
Your take is funny as hell