MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: shoothoops on March 01, 2021, 09:08:20 AM
-
This is quite the read from the Texas Tribune regarding "Eyes of Texas" school alma mater song.
"It's time for you to put the foot down and make it perfectly clear that the heritage of Texas will not be lost," wrote another donor who graduated in 1986. Their name was also redacted by UT-Austin. "It is sad that it is offending the blacks. As I said before the blacks are free and it's time for them to move on to another state where everything is in their favor."
"At least two people argued that because the Black student population at UT-Austin is small, their voices should not outweigh the larger wishes of the alumni base."
"Less than 6% of our current student body is black," wrote Larry Wilkinson, a donor who graduated in 1970, quoting a statistic UT-Austin officials have stated they’re working to improve. "The tail cannot be allowed to wag the dog….. and the dog must instead stand up for what is right. Nothing forces those students to attend UT Austin. Encourage them to select an alternate school ….NOW!"
Wilkinson reiterated his opinions in an interview with the Tribune. "Everything in life all comes back to money," he said. He said he did not get a personal response to his email from Hartzell, only a generic message that said the song would remain."
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/03/01/ut-eyes-of-texas-donors-emails/amp/?__twitter_impression=true
-
All this for a song sung to the tune of "I've Been Working on the Railroad."
This will not help recruiting.
-
Austin the city is liberal, at least for Texas. UT definitely less so.
Of course it is the old, white dudes arguing that the minority doesn't like racism they should just move on. ::)
-
Meanwhile a couple hours to the east, there have been protests going on years because there is a statue of a Confederate General (and former Texas Governor and University President) in the middle of the university's main plaza. The comments I have seen regarding that would make the commenters in this UT article blush.
-
I mean, why don't the black kids at UT just transfer to the University of Liberia? That's theirs.
(Teal for wades.)
-
These are the song's lyrics that everyone's fighting over?:
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
All the livelong day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
You cannot get away.
Do not think you can escape them
At night or early in the morn --
The Eyes of Texas are upon you
'Til Gabriel blows his horn.
I must be missing something. Why is that offensive to anyone?
-
These are the song's lyrics that everyone's fighting over?:
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
All the livelong day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
You cannot get away.
Do not think you can escape them
At night or early in the morn --
The Eyes of Texas are upon you
'Til Gabriel blows his horn.
I must be missing something. Why is that offensive to anyone?
The words are attributed to the lead general of the Confederacy is my understanding.
-
These are the song's lyrics that everyone's fighting over?:
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
All the livelong day.
The Eyes of Texas are upon you,
You cannot get away.
Do not think you can escape them
At night or early in the morn --
The Eyes of Texas are upon you
'Til Gabriel blows his horn.
I must be missing something. Why is that offensive to anyone?
In this case, it's not about the lyrics to this particular song, but the tune that it was written to. It's sung to the tune of "I've Been Working on the Railroad." The children's version we know is pretty clean, but the original version had the n-word in it, multiple references to slavery, cotton bales, etc.
Some people have also stated that the title/line "The Eyes of Texas are upon you" is a reference to a phrase repeated often by General Lee, "The eyes of the South are upon you." I've seen it reported, I don't know what if any historical proof exists to back it up.
-
In this case, it's not about the lyrics to this particular song, but the tune that it was written to. It's sung to the tune of "I've Been Working on the Railroad." The children's version we know is pretty clean, but the original version had the n-word in it, multiple references to slavery, cotton bales, etc.
Some people have also stated that the title/line "The Eyes of Texas are upon you" is a reference to a phrase repeated often by General Lee, "The eyes of the South are upon you." I've seen it reported, I don't know what if any historical proof exists to back it up.
But none of that stuff is in the Texas song. The Texas song is something that UT has made its own over the years and is deeply ingrained in the culture of the school. The words to that Texas song are clearly not offensive. This is a great example of something that can be seen as offensive only to someone who is really reaching for it.
-
Here is a good summary.
https://www.texasmonthly.com/the-culture/ut-austin-eyes-of-texas-song-racist/
I have two thoughts on this:
1. If you get rid of everything in the south that has racist origins, you wouldn't be left with much. Yes, the title is based on a Lee saying, and yes it was performed at minstrel shows, but the lyrics themselves are creepy...but fine. And I joked about it earlier, but it is a cool tradition in a sport that's full of them.
2. That being said, it's just a song. And the reactions to players not wanting to stand up and sing that song, for whatever reason, are really obscene. Making players stand up and sing a song they really don't want to sing is dumb. If you want to sing it in the stands, go ahead! Make your little longhorn with your hand and hug your wife as your weep for the lost days of your youth. But if some player from suburban Dallas has no interest, just let it go.
-
But none of that stuff is in the Texas song. The Texas song is something that UT has made its own over the years and is deeply ingrained in the culture of the school. The words to that Texas song are clearly not offensive. This is a great example of something that can be seen as offensive only to someone who is really reaching for it.
But they are still playing the song. The problem is that most of the players don't want to sing it. And apparently Joe Texas Alum gets mad when the football players don't sing.
-
Speaking of things that won't help recruiting. the Black Coaches United is advising recruits to think twice before committing to schools in Tennessee because the state legislature wants a ban on kneeling during the anthem.
https://sports.yahoo.com/black-coaches-advocacy-group-athletes-tennessee-schools-after-gop-anthem-push-012833570.html
-
But they are still playing the song. The problem is that most of the players don't want to sing it. And apparently Joe Texas Alum gets mad when the football players don't sing.
I hope they can find some middle ground that allows the song to keep playing at games for the alums to sing, but lets the players stay out of it if they don't want to sing it. Clearly it's dumb to make anyone sing it who doesn't want to (unless it's part of a fraternity hazing, of course).
-
But none of that stuff is in the Texas song. The Texas song is something that UT has made its own over the years and is deeply ingrained in the culture of the school. The words to that Texas song are clearly not offensive. This is a great example of something that can be seen as offensive only to someone who is really reaching for it.
Well, the second paragraph is in the song for sure. And the tune of the song is there. I mean if we put positive lyrics over the top of the Nazi Party Anthem I'm sure we could find fault with that. But I agree in the sense that on my personal Richter scale for offense, this one doesn't register very high.
In general, I'm not a big fan of telling people what they should and shouldn't be offended by. If the football players don't like it and don't want to sing it, I don't think they should be made to.
Either way, some of the responses by the alumni are disgusting.
-
I hope they can find some middle ground that allows the song to keep playing at games for the alums to sing, but lets the players stay out of it if they don't want to sing it. Clearly it's dumb to make anyone sing it who doesn't want to (unless it's part of a fraternity hazing, of course).
That was already the middle-ground. But Coach Sark has said that the entire team will sing. So there goes the compromise.
-
I agree it's not a good idea to make anyone sing. I could see at least making them be present when others are singing it though; the players did choose to attend and accept the scholarship at the UT and when they made their campus visits, I'm sure they were exposed to the song. If they were so uncomfortable with it, they could have easily chosen to go somewhere where the school song was less offensive. It's not like some racist song was suddenly sprung upon these unsuspecting students with no warning.
-
I agree it's not a good idea to make anyone sing. I could see at least making them be present when others are singing it though; the players did choose to attend and accept the scholarship at the UT and when they made their campus visits, I'm sure they were exposed to the song. If they were so uncomfortable with it, they could have easily chosen to go somewhere where the school song was less offensive. It's not like some racist song was suddenly sprung upon these unsuspecting students with no warning.
I’d bet that many players didn’t even know the words to the school song when they committed. What do you think the odds are that Stevie Mitchell knows the words to Ring Out Ahoya?
-
Meanwhile a couple hours to the east, there have been protests going on years because there is a statue of a Confederate General (and former Texas Governor and University President) in the middle of the university's main plaza. The comments I have seen regarding that would make the commenters in this UT article blush.
Certainly not justified - but there is a huge difference between racism and protesting over a statue of a traitor.
-
But none of that stuff is in the Texas song. The Texas song is something that UT has made its own over the years and is deeply ingrained in the culture of the school. The words to that Texas song are clearly not offensive. This is a great example of something that can be seen as offensive only to someone who is really reaching for it.
That's right. As white people - we should get to decide what is offensive to minorities. This is America, d*mn it.
-
I agree it's not a good idea to make anyone sing. I could see at least making them be present when others are singing it though; the players did choose to attend and accept the scholarship at the UT and when they made their campus visits, I'm sure they were exposed to the song. If they were so uncomfortable with it, they could have easily chosen to go somewhere where the school song was less offensive. It's not like some racist song was suddenly sprung upon these unsuspecting students with no warning.
So you believe that before signing a letter of intent, each recruit was told he would have to stand and sing this song, that it was a requirement to being a scholarship football player at UT?
Speaking of things that won't help recruiting. the Black Coaches United is advising recruits to think twice before committing to schools in Tennessee because the state legislature wants a ban on kneeling during the anthem.
https://sports.yahoo.com/black-coaches-advocacy-group-athletes-tennessee-schools-after-gop-anthem-push-012833570.html
Should be "fun" the first time the cops actually try to enforce that law.
Ah, "small gubmint."
-
I’d bet that many players didn’t even know the words to the school song when they committed. What do you think the odds are that Stevie Mitchell knows the words to Ring Out Ahoya?
Again, what in the lyrics to "The Eyes of Texas" are being seen as offensive?
-
So you believe that before signing a letter of intent, each recruit was told he would have to stand and sing this song, that it was a requirement to being a scholarship football player at UT?
I believe a recruit that's interested in attending Texas will have watched many Texas football games and will have witnessed with his own eyes and ears what the players are doing at the games and will have an idea that this would be expected of him. If singing the song is a requirement to being a scholarship football player at UT, then yes, I do believe that every recruit will have been told this.
-
I believe a recruit that's interested in attending Texas will have watched many Texas football games and will have witnessed with his own eyes and ears what the players are doing at the games and will have an idea that this would be expected of him. If singing the song is a requirement to being a scholarship football player at UT, then yes, I do believe that every recruit will have been told this.
So then they get there, learn more about the song and hear some of their teammates bitch about the requirement...and then what.
It's a dumb requirement. It has nothing to do with football or team building. It has everything to do with appearances.
-
So then they get there, learn more about the song and hear some of their teammates bitch about the requirement...and then what.
It's a dumb requirement. It has nothing to do with football or team building. It has everything to do with appearances.
I don't disagree with you. But I also don't disagree with the alumni who want to retain their tradition of singing the song.
Shouldn't make the players sing it if they don't want to though.
-
Again, what in the lyrics to "The Eyes of Texas" are being seen as offensive?
It's been explained to you. The line "The Eyes of Texas are upon you" is a reference to a repeated quote by a confederate general. And the tune it is played to has racist origins. You don't find it offensive and that's fine. Others do.
-
Here is an interesting fact I just learned: Sam Houston was ousted as governor after he refused to take an oath to the confederacy.
-
So you believe that before signing a letter of intent, each recruit was told he would have to stand and sing this song, that it was a requirement to being a scholarship football player at UT?
Should be "fun" the first time the cops actually try to enforce that law.
Ah, "small gubmint."
One of the big donors who has threatened to halt future donations actually said that. If "the blacks" don't want to sing, they should move to a different state.
-
Again, what in the lyrics to "The Eyes of Texas" are being seen as offensive?
I never said it was offensive. Some players seem to think it is, and I don’t feel it is my place to tell them otherwise. But regardless, I was responding directly to this comment you made:
If they were so uncomfortable with it, they could have easily chosen to go somewhere where the school song was less offensive.
That certainly seemed to imply that you thought they knew the lyrics before they committed.
-
Here is an interesting fact I just learned: Sam Houston was ousted as governor after he refused to take an oath to the confederacy.
Sam Houston also lived with a Cherokee tribe in his teens. Andrew Jackson put him in charge of trying to remove Cherokee's from lands. He sided with the Cherokee and once wore Native American garb to a meeting between them and that old racist POS John Calhoun. Which infuriated Calhoun and Houston left the army. Then he later got accused of fraud for trying to get rations to Native Americans who were being resettled...he responded by beating the hell out of the accusing senator with a cane.
Sam Houston...certified non-racist and general badass.
-
https://twitter.com/CSterns_7/status/1366508489929986049?s=20
-
I know how I’d be recruiting against Texas. Good luck, Sark
-
https://twitter.com/CSterns_7/status/1366508489929986049?s=20
Just do what master says and you'll get paid
-
Sam Houston also lived with a Cherokee tribe in his teens. Andrew Jackson put him in charge of trying to remove Cherokee's from lands. He sided with the Cherokee and once wore Native American garb to a meeting between them and that old racist POS John Calhoun. Which infuriated Calhoun and Houston left the army. Then he later got accused of fraud for trying to get rations to Native Americans who were being resettled...he responded by beating the hell out of the accusing senator with a cane.
Sam Houston...certified non-racist and general badass.
I will have find a doc and/or book on Sam and read up.
-
https://twitter.com/CSterns_7/status/1366508489929986049?s=20
That's what I referenced a few posts back. Thanks for finding and posting.
-
Sam Houston also lived with a Cherokee tribe in his teens. Andrew Jackson put him in charge of trying to remove Cherokee's from lands. He sided with the Cherokee and once wore Native American garb to a meeting between them and that old racist POS John Calhoun. Which infuriated Calhoun and Houston left the army. Then he later got accused of fraud for trying to get rations to Native Americans who were being resettled...he responded by beating the hell out of the accusing senator with a cane.
Sam Houston...certified non-racist and general badass.
I feel like I just watched a drunk history vignette
-
Sam Houston also lived with a Cherokee tribe in his teens. Andrew Jackson put him in charge of trying to remove Cherokee's from lands. He sided with the Cherokee and once wore Native American garb to a meeting between them and that old racist POS John Calhoun. Which infuriated Calhoun and Houston left the army. Then he later got accused of fraud for trying to get rations to Native Americans who were being resettled...he responded by beating the hell out of the accusing senator with a cane.
Sam Houston...certified non-racist and general badass.
Very cool story! Thanks for sharing.
-
Offense is a choice.
Upset is a choice.
Some people make bad choices.
-
Offense is a choice.
Upset is a choice.
Some people make bad choices.
Not really
Not really
Definitely
-
Offense is a choice.
Upset is a choice.
Some people make bad choices.
Being offended or upset by something is not a choice. It is a emotional response. What they do with that emotional response is a choice.
-
Being offended or upset by something is not a choice. It is a emotional response. What they do with that emotional response is a choice.
I generally agree with this. But it is worth stating that one can obsessively research the background of anything from history and choose a viewpoint to be upset about it (Washington, Lincoln, Martin Luther King Jr, Gandhi)
-
I generally agree with this. But it is worth stating that one can obsessively research the background of anything from history and choose a viewpoint to be upset about it (Washington, Lincoln, Martin Luther King Jr, Gandhi)
What an upsetting viewpoint you have, Galway!
-
I generally agree with this. But it is worth stating that one can obsessively research the background of anything from history and choose a viewpoint to be upset about it (Washington, Lincoln, Martin Luther King Jr, Gandhi)
My personal favorite are the people who work themselves into a fury about Mother Theresa.
-
What an upsetting viewpoint you have, Galway!
Then choose not to be upset about it!
-
My personal favorite are the people who work themselves into a fury about Mother Theresa.
I think there is very valid criticism and reason to question some of the fervent adoration of Mother Theresa. She kept some dubious company when it came to world leaders, her views on medical treatment were actually kind of F'd up, and there was a lot of grey area when it came to the large finances of her organization. I don't think she was some secretly evil meglomaniac, but I think there is some very valid pushback to the saintly view of her. Same for Ghandi, dude had some VERY questionable positions and habits at the time.
But the end of the day, they were just humans with flaws like the rest of us, which is fine, but its the tongue wagging deification of them that brings scrutiny on their past.
-
I think there is very valid criticism and reason to question some of the fervent adoration of Mother Theresa. She kept some dubious company when it came to world leaders, her views on medical treatment were actually kind of F'd up, and there was a lot of grey area when it came to the large finances of her organization. I don't think she was some secretly evil meglomaniac, but I think there is some very valid pushback to the saintly view of her. Same for Ghandi, dude had some VERY questionable positions and habits at the time.
But the end of the day, they were just humans with flaws like the rest of us, which is fine, but its the tongue wagging deification of them that brings scrutiny on their past.
One should always be aware of the imperfection of everyone's past. But as you say "they were just humans with flaws like the rest of us". I think if a person has done more good than bad and the main thing they're known for is a good achievement, then they should be looked upon as good. You can choose to focus on those imperfections and thus be offended by statues and street names or you can accept they were imperfect but made an overall positive lasting impact.
Unlike say confederate leaders who were traitors that fought and killed for the right to enslave a bunch of people.
-
One should always be aware of the imperfection of everyone's past. But as you say "they were just humans with flaws like the rest of us". I think if a person has done more good than bad and the main thing they're known for is a good achievement, then they should be looked upon as good. You can choose to focus on those imperfections and thus be offended by statues and street names or you can accept they were imperfect but made a overall positive lasting impact.
Unlike say confederate leaders who were traitors that fought and killed for the right to enslave a bunch of people.
This is why I am not a big fan of statues in general. It elevates the person above their accomplishments.
-
This is why I am not a big fan of statues in general. It elevates the person above their accomplishments.
I prefer statues of events. That monumentalizes the specific achievement rather than the individual. It would be much more difficult to scream take down a statue of Washington crossing the Delaware or getting sworn in as the first president as opposed to one of him just standing there, looking regal.
-
Or like the Statue of Iwo Jima, largely of anonymous people.
-
One should always be aware of the imperfection of everyone's past. But as you say "they were just humans with flaws like the rest of us". I think if a person has done more good than bad and the main thing they're known for is a good achievement, then they should be looked upon as good. You can choose to focus on those imperfections and thus be offended by statues and street names or you can accept they were imperfect but made an overall positive lasting impact.
Unlike say confederate leaders who were traitors that fought and killed for the right to enslave a bunch of people.
I'm with you 100%. However, what you are advocating is subjective and based upon the decision-makers. Look at SFSD. Lincoln wasn't good enough, Dianne Feinstein's name had to come down because under her watch as Mayor the confederate flag was replaced by the Parks Department at a display after it was removed, but then she had it immediately replaced by a Union flag (not good enough), Paul Revere was deemed unworthy because they looked up the wrong info on Wikipedia, but Malcolm X's history of being a pimp and abusing/subjucating women could be ignored because "his later career redeemed his earlier missteps."
In London, Davis, and DC, Gandhi statues were targeted. And look at the love for Kobe and all of the demands regarding the NBA logo. Suddenly Eagle, CO isn't a big deal because he was a great player and became a "girl dad."
Or like the Statue of Iwo Jima, largely of anonymous people.
Give it time...
-
I'm with you 100%. However, what you are advocating is subjective and based upon the decision-makers.
So, basically the same as the process by which the statues were commissioned?
-
Or like the Statue of Iwo Jima, largely of anonymous people.
I find that statue very offensive: all those racist, xenophobic white soldiers celebrating a victory over those Japanese defending their homeland.
-
Not really
Not really
Definitely
I could choose to be offended by your response. I could even choose to be upset. Instead, I choose to respect your alternative point of view and use it as a learning point to realize that not everyone will share my point of view.
Too many people out there looking for offense or a reason to be upset... That's why I say it's a choice. Hope you can also respect an alternative point of vew.
-
I could choose to be offended by your response. I could even choose to be upset. Instead, I choose to respect your alternative point of view and use it as a learning point to realize that not everyone will share my point of view.
Too many people out there looking for offense or a reason to be upset... That's why I say it's a choice. Hope you can also respect an alternative point of vew.
TAMU said it best. Being upset or offended isn’t a choice. How you react to it is.
-
I could choose to be offended by your response. I could even choose to be upset. Instead, I choose to respect your alternative point of view and use it as a learning point to realize that not everyone will share my point of view.
Too many people out there looking for offense or a reason to be upset... That's why I say it's a choice. Hope you can also respect an alternative point of vew.
I can respect that you have an alternative small minded point of view. Hope that doesn't offend you.
-
I could choose to be offended by your response. I could even choose to be upset. Instead, I choose to respect your alternative point of view and use it as a learning point to realize that not everyone will share my point of view.
Too many people out there looking for offense or a reason to be upset... That's why I say it's a choice. Hope you can also respect an alternative point of vew.
Science says you're wrong.
Our reactions to anything - an offense, a threat, something that makes us happy or sad, something that feels good - happen within our subconscious faster than we can consciously register whatever created the reaction in the first place.
So, when you call someone an offensive name, their body is reacting to it before their conscious mind processes what they've been called.
-
TU commissioned a committee to determine if the song had racist intent and found that it does not. The administration seems to have taken the right approach and I think it's key that the recommendation is to educate incoming students on the history of the song and to not force anyone to sing it (along with a number of other recommendations.....58 pages! yeesh)
I must admit when I read the headline I had the same look on my face as I did when my 14 yr old said "I did some research and Game of Thrones is perfectly fine for me to watch".
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-finds-no-racist-intent-140329551.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-finds-no-racist-intent-140329551.html)
-
Let's see if they actually enforce athletes not being required to sing the song. My guess is that most of the football players will be singing it right along with their new coach.
-
TU commissioned a committee to determine if the song had racist intent and found that it does not. The administration seems to have taken the right approach and I think it's key that the recommendation is to educate incoming students on the history of the song and to not force anyone to sing it (along with a number of other recommendations.....58 pages! yeesh)
I must admit when I read the headline I had the same look on my face as I did when my 14 yr old said "I did some research and Game of Thrones is perfectly fine for me to watch".
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-finds-no-racist-intent-140329551.html (https://www.yahoo.com/sports/report-finds-no-racist-intent-140329551.html)
Let's see how the donors react to the "not force to sing" thing. That was the apparent sticking point before
-
Let's see how the donors react to the "not force to sing" thing. That was the apparent sticking point before
Texas boosters tend to be understanding
-
Texas boosters tend to be understanding
after wins, they will be. After losses....
-
Let's see if they actually enforce athletes not being required to sing the song. My guess is that most of the football players will be singing it right along with their new coach.
I didn't know Greg McDermott coached football.