MUScoop

There's no lottery pick at stake, but if you're hoping Wojo sees the door, sooner rather than later, is that enough to root against Marquette?

*ducks*

Frankly, I'm pretty torn between 1, 4 and 6. Which I guess tends to 6.

MU is headed for the bottom half of the Big East for 5 of 7 years.

Marquette needs a new coach.  The end.

I get frustrated with the results, but would never stoop a level of actually rooting against the team.

Quote from: CountryRoads on February 03, 2021, 08:15:24 AM
I get frustrated with the results, but would never stoop a level of actually rooting against the team.

+1

Quote from: CountryRoads on February 03, 2021, 08:15:24 AM
I get frustrated with the results, but would never stoop a level of actually rooting against the team.

Yep.

My head is resigned to the fact that Wojo's not the guy. But I start every game hoping that it will be the one where we turn the corner. I could never root for us to lose.

Wasnt rooting for a loss,  but fully expected one.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 03, 2021, 08:09:03 AM
MU is headed for the bottom half of the Big East for 5 of 7 years.

Marquette needs a new coach.  The end.

If Providence beats Seton Hall, we are only a game out of the 5 spot. Technically Top Half of the conference. Grasping at straws.

Quote from: lawdog77 on February 03, 2021, 09:17:44 AM
If Providence beats Seton Hall, we are only a game out of the 5 spot. Technically Top Half of the conference. Grasping at straws.

Found the MU Board of Trustees member.

I was not pulling for a loss. His body of work already is cause for getting canned IMO. Losing to some stiffs (again)  really is not needed for me to throw gas on the fire.

Always rooting for the win, but rooting for a win to keep hope alive that we can still finish on top of the bottom half of the conference has a really sad and weird feeling to it.

No. I never want losses. And this isnt the NBA were we can improve our draft choice or something.


I did admittingly actually find myself chuckling during the comeback which is not the standard.

Even though there is 0.01% chance we pull it off, we are still very mathematically alive for an at large. So winning only helps right now.

Quote from: Goose on February 03, 2021, 10:42:36 AM
I was not pulling for a loss. His body of work already is cause for getting canned IMO. Losing to some stiffs (again)  really is not needed for me to throw gas on the fire.

The question that really needs to be answered is, "How does the rest of the world view us?"

By now, we know the Nojos basically rule and predominate Scoop. Most of us either have fond, fading memories of the Al years or lived through the excitement of the Buzz years. We have a level of excellence expectation that's not being met -- and shows little hope of being met.

But I have no clue what the non hard-core Warrior fan thinks. Do people who take an interest in our program but are not fanatical about it think the same as we do? Do the "butts in seats" who would normally show up if we had an audience think this program is in deep trouble? What's our television ratings like?

My fear is that as bad as things are, they could get far worse. Look at Vanderbilt. While their football sucks, they could count on having a competitive basketball team in the SEC year in and year out. They have a 15,500 seat arena and used to pack it. While their reputation was never as good as our's, they've been consistently strong until they hired their version of Coach Wojo -- Kevin Stallings.

Now they are the butt end of the SEC, routinely trampled on by that conference's equivalent of Depaul. They've gone from a big deal in Nashville to, "what have you done for me lately." In a city with NFL football and NHL hockey have strong and growing followings, Vanderbilt is the incredible shrinking butterfly.  This is a good comparison because Nashville has a similar amount of major sports to Milwaukee and the region faces competition from a state school three hours away (though, I admit, Vol football is on life sport right now).

So the question is, "can we stop it before it sinks to Depaul or Vanderbilt level?"

I don't see a voting option pertaining to those of us who had Marquette -3.5

Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 03, 2021, 10:52:06 AM
No. I never want losses. And this isnt the NBA were we can improve our draft choice or something.

It felt very Herb Kohl-era Bucks to me. All those years they needed to tank to get better talent in, but they fought like hell for the eighth seed. So when they won it was a strange feeling... the competitor is happy, but you knew it just perpetuates the mediocrity.

Same with MU, honestly. It's abundantly clear Wojo doesn't have it. But it will have to get really bad for there to be any possibility of a change.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 03, 2021, 08:09:03 AM
MU is headed for the bottom half of the Big East for 5 of 7 years.

Marquette needs a new coach.  The end.

Hmmmm....Two moderators have different views of Wojo-Dukiet."Theres somethin strange happenin here"--Buffalo Springfield

Quote from: Carl on February 03, 2021, 11:05:23 AM
I don't see a voting option pertaining to those of us who had Marquette -3.5

That was... not fun.

Quote from: dgies9156 on February 03, 2021, 10:58:58 AM

My fear is that as bad as things are, they could get far worse. Look at Vanderbilt. While their football sucks, they could count on having a competitive basketball team in the SEC year in and year out. They have a 15,500 seat arena and used to pack it. While their reputation was never as good as our's, they've been consistently strong until they hired their version of Coach Wojo -- Kevin Stallings.

Now they are the butt end of the SEC, routinely trampled on by that conference's equivalent of Depaul. They've gone from a big deal in Nashville to, "what have you done for me lately." In a city with NFL football and NHL hockey have strong and growing followings, Vanderbilt is the incredible shrinking butterfly.  This is a good comparison because Nashville has a similar amount of major sports to Milwaukee and the region faces competition from a state school three hours away (though, I admit, Vol football is on life sport right now).

So the question is, "can we stop it before it sinks to Depaul or Vanderbilt level?"

I understand the point you're trying to make, but what?? I'm not championing Stallings, but Vandy has made 14 NCAAs in their history...7 were with Stallings.  In the last 40 years, they've made 4 S16s...2 were Stallings.  His career winning percentage is higher than Vandy's as a program, including the rough first years when he took over.  His last few years were bad, and Bryce Drew was a disaster, but Stallings wasn't some massive divergence from an illustrious program history

Wasn't rooting for a loss when the game started but when MU began to gag and choke again, then I thought it might be best to lose and make it impossible for Wojo to return.

Quote from: willie warrior on February 03, 2021, 11:31:11 AM
Hmmmm....Two moderators have different views of Wojo-Dukiet."Theres somethin strange happenin here"--Buffalo Springfield

For as sharp as you perceive yourself, I'd think you'd know Scoop is OK with differing opinions.  Hell, we've let you mope about literally everything on here for the past 14ish years.

Quote from: MUfan12 on February 03, 2021, 11:07:27 AM
It felt very Herb Kohl-era Bucks to me. All those years they needed to tank to get better talent in, but they fought like hell for the eighth seed. So when they won it was a strange feeling... the competitor is happy, but you knew it just perpetuates the mediocrity.

Same with MU, honestly. It's abundantly clear Wojo doesn't have it. But it will have to get really bad for there to be any possibility of a change.

This is where I'm at. I think MU's quickest path to success is a new coach next year. I'm not sure if we lose every remaining game, if the administration will pull the plug though.

Quote from: JWags85 on February 03, 2021, 11:34:21 AM
I understand the point you're trying to make, but what?? I'm not championing Stallings, but Vandy has made 14 NCAAs in their history...7 were with Stallings.  In the last 40 years, they've made 4 S16s...2 were Stallings.  His career winning percentage is higher than Vandy's as a program, including the rough first years when he took over.  His last few years were bad, and Bryce Drew was a disaster, but Stallings wasn't some massive divergence from an illustrious program history

You are correct. Stallings lost it in his last few years -- kinda like Buzz in his last year with us -- and Drew was responsible for the Commodores becoming the Commodeidores.

My mistake.

Quote from: JWags85 on February 03, 2021, 11:34:21 AM
I understand the point you're trying to make, but what?? I'm not championing Stallings, but Vandy has made 14 NCAAs in their history...7 were with Stallings.  In the last 40 years, they've made 4 S16s...2 were Stallings.  His career winning percentage is higher than Vandy's as a program, including the rough first years when he took over.  His last few years were bad, and Bryce Drew was a disaster, but Stallings wasn't some massive divergence from an illustrious program history

I agree with this. Stallings overall did just fine at Vandy, a place whose Admin historically supports Athletics far less than some of its peers. The year they lost to Georgetown on a Jeff Green travel, was a potential FF team. They had many strong regular season/NCAA seeded teams under him as well that were upset in the NCAA's. Many places don't end well for any coach.

Stallings was told before his 5th season by then VU Chancellor Gordon Gee, that if he didn't make the NCAA's that season, he'd be fired. (He made the Sweet 16)

Bryce Drew chased Five Star players. He also recruited some other good ones under the radar. Unfortunately for him, a few of those either got injured just before or just after the season. He didn't overcome those things Darius Garland (injury) s doing well in the NBA. Aaron Nesmith (injury) will be a good NBA player. Saben Lee is in the league. Shittu injury. Drew also recruited Disu and Pippen. Thus far Stack can develop Drew's players but not surprisingly, he isn't fond of recruiting. We'll see if he can get good enough players and string a few classes together.

They now have some stability in Athletic Administration, very successful non-revenue teams, a strong football hire and soon to be announced infrastructure spending and plans.

I will always, always, always root for my alma mater to win.

Losing is a means to an end at this point.  Let's leave nothing to chance.

In college hoops, the chance to win your conference tourney keeps me hoping that "this" game is the game it all turns around & clicks. 

I can think Wojo should be replaced and still be happy when he wins.  I want him to win.

I WANT TO BE WRONG.

Quote from: willie warrior on February 03, 2021, 11:31:11 AM
Hmmmm....Two moderators have different views of Wojo-Dukiet."Theres somethin strange happenin here"--Buffalo Springfield

Wait <checks notes> rocky is a Projo?

(I have no notes.)

I will never, ever, ever root against my alma mater's men's basketball team.

Every game is a want to win, and also an expected win going into the game. I don't think I have ever played, coached, or rooted for a team, not only wanting the team to win, but also expecting it to win, every game regardless of circumstances. When the game is over, more specific, balanced discussion and evaluation can be had. Never before a game. If that happens it may be time to explore other interests.

Quote from: shoothoops on February 03, 2021, 02:22:47 PM
Every game is a want to win, and also an expected win going into the game. I don't think I have ever played, coached, or rooted for a team, not only wanting the team to win, but also expecting it to win, every game regardless of circumstances. When the game is over, more specific, balanced discussion and evaluation can be had. Never before a game. If that happens it may be time to explore other interests.

I also usually expect victory, though I will admit that there have been stretches during my decades as a Marquette fan that I knew victory was unlikely. However, I always expect our team to be competitive, to play hard until the very last possession.

I definitely think we can beat Creighton again, though I sure would like to see Justin be available.

Quote from: MU82 on February 03, 2021, 02:24:53 PM
I also usually expect victory, though I will admit that there have been stretches during my decades as a Marquette fan that I knew victory was unlikely. However, I always expect our team to be competitive, to play hard until the very last possession.

I definitely think we can beat Creighton again, though I sure would like to see Justin be available.

If we beat Creighton again I may hesitantly let myself be hurt again big if though but it's also require taking care of business against Butler and Depaul

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 03, 2021, 02:26:15 PM
If we beat Creighton again I may hesitantly let myself be hurt again big if though but it's also require taking care of business against Butler and Depaul

Every loss stings. And this season it seems, half the wins sting, too. Tough crowd.

Quote from: shoothoops on February 03, 2021, 02:22:47 PM
Every game is a want to win, and also an expected win going into the game. I don't think I have ever played, coached, or rooted for a team, not only wanting the team to win, but also expecting it to win, every game regardless of circumstances. When the game is over, more specific, balanced discussion and evaluation can be had. Never before a game. If that happens it may be time to explore other interests.

Every game is a want to win but I guess I'm more of a realist than you. I always think victory is possible but not always likely.

Of course, I always have to cheer for MU to win.

It's not like we can have a "tank-a-thon" to end up with a higher draft pick.

Quote from: MU82 on February 03, 2021, 02:28:02 PM
Every loss stings. And this season it seems, half the wins sting, too. Tough crowd.

I think what happens is we get some early big wins (two over top 10 teams) and then we lose three very winnable games (Depaul, Prov, SJU) and then have the next game in hand (Butler) and nearly choke that away like the others.

That is going to leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth.  It is hard to have realistic expectations after such a strong start.

No fan of the MU program would root against the team under any circumstances.  Ever.

I find myself indifferent to the outcome.  Don't really care if they win or lose because at this point it's pretty meaningless.  There is nothing about this team or the future to really be excited about with this coach and with the current regime at Marquette.  Having a top flight program doesn't seem to be the goal.

Quote from: dgies9156 on February 03, 2021, 10:58:58 AM
The question that really needs to be answered is, "How does the rest of the world view us?"

By now, we know the Nojos basically rule and predominate Scoop. Most of us either have fond, fading memories of the Al years or lived through the excitement of the Buzz years. We have a level of excellence expectation that's not being met -- and shows little hope of being met.

But I have no clue what the non hard-core Warrior fan thinks. Do people who take an interest in our program but are not fanatical about it think the same as we do? Do the "butts in seats" who would normally show up if we had an audience think this program is in deep trouble? What's our television ratings like?

My fear is that as bad as things are, they could get far worse. Look at Vanderbilt. While their football sucks, they could count on having a competitive basketball team in the SEC year in and year out. They have a 15,500 seat arena and used to pack it. While their reputation was never as good as our's, they've been consistently strong until they hired their version of Coach Wojo -- Kevin Stallings.

Now they are the butt end of the SEC, routinely trampled on by that conference's equivalent of Depaul. They've gone from a big deal in Nashville to, "what have you done for me lately." In a city with NFL football and NHL hockey have strong and growing followings, Vanderbilt is the incredible shrinking butterfly.  This is a good comparison because Nashville has a similar amount of major sports to Milwaukee and the region faces competition from a state school three hours away (though, I admit, Vol football is on life sport right now).

So the question is, "can we stop it before it sinks to Depaul or Vanderbilt level?"

The Athletic ran their Big East Q&A about the season with two writers.  Asked if there were any coaches that would be fired, Leito was the only mentioned.  I get the feeling that most outside MU thought this season was a down season post Markus and that's what it looks like.  From the outside.

If this game went into overtime or was a minute longer......

WOJO would be putting spin on another 20 point opponent comeback thru hustle and grit......

Two things we show little of.....

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 03, 2021, 04:38:38 PM
I think what happens is we get some early big wins (two over top 10 teams) and then we lose three very winnable games (Depaul, Prov, SJU) and then have the next game in hand (Butler) and nearly choke that away like the others.

That is going to leave a bad taste in anyone's mouth.  It is hard to have realistic expectations after such a strong start.

I understand. But Creighton would have been happy to have had any win over Butler rather than the loss they suffered.

Quote from: MUDPT on February 03, 2021, 05:21:11 PM
The Athletic ran their Big East Q&A about the season with two writers.  Asked if there were any coaches that would be fired, Leito was the only mentioned.  I get the feeling that most outside MU thought this season was a down season post Markus and that's what it looks like.  From the outside.

I ran those quotes in another thread. I'll repeat them here:

Charlotte Carroll: The Big East has five coaches who arrived in 2017 or later, and there is a sense of stability in the old names where a lot of turnover seems unlikely. The "Will Jay Wright go to the NBA" talk seems to happen every year, but with the Sixers job filled last offseason, that's even more unlikely. In terms of more conventional coaching changes, it's unlikely Georgetown's Patrick Ewing is going anywhere after an off year, leaving DePaul the most likely and sole opening. The Blue Demons have had just one winning season since Dave Leitao took over the program again in 2015.

C.J. Holmes: The only coach I'd say might be in danger of losing his job is Leitao. The Blue Demons have had just one winning season (19-17, 2018-19) since Leitao returned, and haven't come close to an NCAA Tournament berth. This season DePaul is 3-7 overall, 1-7 in Big East play and 0-2 against Top 25 opponents — albeit both of those losses came in tight games. Either way it might be time to make a change.

With the not at all stunning realization that the MU administration will look only at $$$ and that even if Wojo loses every game for the remainder of the season he will still be head coach next year... I'm always supporting my alma mater to win every game. 

The administration is not creative enough to find a way for him to resign and avoid the buyout.
No-one is going to hire him away after his recent record.
We are stuck with him until the economy and the university's finances improve, or until someone with a lot more money than me ponies up the buy-out cash. 

Quote from: MU82 on February 03, 2021, 01:09:37 PM
I will never, ever, ever root against my alma mater's men's basketball team.

YOU SEXIST PIG!

Quote from: The Lens on February 03, 2021, 11:15:47 PM
YOU SEXIST PIG!

put the jack down

Quote from: The Lens on February 03, 2021, 11:15:47 PM
YOU SEXIST PIG!

I will always root for both the men's and women's basketball teams at my alma mater.

Much better

Like most people here, there is no way I am ever going to hope that Marquette loses a game. I am always , always hoping for a win even if losses helps rid us of Wojo.

I am hoping that Wojo still is marketable to another major conference member, whether that is Boston College or another school that is somewhat desperate. He may decide to get a new gig at the end of this season rather than risk an even worse performance at Marquette next season that compromises his ability to coach in the P5 at another school. He may be able to make a change and still command a 7 figure salary with a few years of security. Well, that's my hope anyway.

Anybody here knowledgeable of the chance that Marquette might cut a deal with Wojo to "resign" that would be cheaper than a firing and let Wojo save face? Have other schools done anything like this?

Nah, its all about the money, honey, hey?

Quote from: Carl on February 03, 2021, 11:05:23 AM
I don't see a voting option pertaining to those of us who had Marquette -3.5

Sorry for your loss, Carl. But you should check MU's record vs. the spread.

Sort of an empty feeling most of the game. I love MU. But this year for college hoops just is not very fun. Even the air was kind of let out during/after the big wins over UW and CU. But Tuesday I just didn't really care about the outcome.

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 03, 2021, 12:59:47 PM
Wait <checks notes> rocky is a Projo?

(I have no notes.)

Believe he is. Look at the picture and read his posts. If not, gthen he is at least an expert at camouflage

Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 03, 2021, 11:56:28 AM
For as sharp as you perceive yourself, I'd think you'd know Scoop is OK with differing opinions.  Hell, we've let you mope about literally everything on here for the past 14ish years.

Mope about everything? I thought you were big on facts. Anyhow, thanks for letting me mope. It will stop when we start winning, which will be when MU admin wakes up. And what is wrong with wanting MU to be an elite program, instead of the basket case it currently is?

Quote from: willie warrior on February 04, 2021, 11:53:58 AM
Mope about everything? I thought you were big on facts. Anyhow, thanks for letting me mope. It will stop when we start winning, which will be when MU admin wakes up. And what is wrong with wanting MU to be an elite program, instead of the basket case it currently is?

Except you moped when the downhome lonesome cowboy was here too so I don't think winning will make it stop

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 04, 2021, 02:06:50 PM
Except you moped when the downhome lonesome cowboy was here too so I don't think winning will make it stop

Nothing short of 1977 will make him happy.  I can't imagine following a sport where the chances of being happy are excruciatingly small.

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 04, 2021, 02:24:49 PM
Nothing short of 1977 will make him happy.  I can't imagine following a sport where the chances of being happy are excruciatingly small.

I am willing to bet he booed Al off the court in his last home game against Wichita State too. 

Don't worry, Willie is a Wardle Wanker, who he believes will come in and save the day! 

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 04, 2021, 02:24:49 PM
Nothing short of 1977 will make him happy.  I can't imagine following a sport where the chances of being happy are excruciatingly small.

He'd complain the whole regular season if it was 1977 and then say we weren't the best team anyways. Nothing short of Indiana's 76 team will make him happy.

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on February 04, 2021, 02:24:49 PM
Nothing short of 1977 will make him happy.  I can't imagine following a sport where the chances of being happy are excruciatingly small.

Seems like you are following a sport and your favorite coach is not getting the job done. Hope you imagining that it is fun for you.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on February 04, 2021, 02:31:01 PM
He'd complain the whole regular season if it was 1977 and then say we weren't the best team anyways. Nothing short of Indiana's 76 team will make him happy.

Another popcorn vendor that is clueless about what makes me happy.

Quote from: willie warrior on February 04, 2021, 02:47:19 PM
Seems like you are following a sport and your favorite coach is not getting the job done. Hope you imagining that it is fun for you.

True, but I'm not unrealistic.  I don't expect my team to run the table or win the championship every year.

You on the other hand...

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 04, 2021, 02:30:38 PM
I am willing to bet he booed Al off the court in his last home game against Wichita State too. 

Don't worry, Willie is a Wardle Wanker, who he believes will come in and save the day!

Make the bet. You would lose Wojo worshipper. Amazing what comes out of the woodwork from the Wojo worshippers

Quote from: willie warrior on February 04, 2021, 02:48:51 PM
Another popcorn vendor that is clueless about what makes me happy.

I imagine you spend a lot of time on Parler making yourself happy. Remember to switch hands occasionally ;)

willie complained about Buzz too.  He's just miserable.

Quote from: Farley36 on February 03, 2021, 05:20:37 PM
I find myself indifferent to the outcome.  Don't really care if they win or lose because at this point it's pretty meaningless.  There is nothing about this team or the future to really be excited about with this coach and with the current regime at Marquette.  Having a top flight program doesn't seem to be the goal.

+1

He's joyless. Must be a rough way to go through life.

I totally wanted Butler to pull it off. Jimmy winning an NBA championship in Miami after Wade did? That would be legen...wait for it....dary!

This is what we are talking about, right?

Quote from: pbiflyer on February 05, 2021, 08:03:39 AM
I totally wanted Butler to pull it off. Jimmy winning an NBA championship in Miami after Wade did? That would be legen...wait for it....dary!

This is what we are talking about, right?

Bravo, sir.

Well played. 👏