The last 24 hours have been wild in college sports and may leave the concept forever changed.
Yesterday, the Big 10 voted to cancel the fall football season, joining the Ivy, PAC-12, and Mid-America conferences in cancelling football.
The outcry was so big that the Big 10 is meeting again today and considering "uncanceling" the season.
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/big-ten-waffles-after-public-outcry-including-trump-tweet-might-not-cancel-season-after-all
The rumor is Nebraska is ready to go it alone. If the Big 10 cancels, they will join with whoever plays (the SEC?) this season. Iowa is considering the same.
The thought it this could lead to the beginning of the end of the concept of a conference as currently structured. (to be clear, conferences will still exist, just not as we know them now.)
Meanwhile the best college FB player in the country, Clemson's QB Trevor Lawrence, is leading a player charge to play this season, and ultimately start a Player's Association/Union.
https://twitter.com/Trevorlawrencee/status/1292672300152758273?s=20
See the last two points, from Lawrence's tweet.
These will have the biggest long-term impact on college football. They can change a lot of how the sport is organized.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EfB-movWAAAe7pU?format=jpg&name=small)
Not this is not happening in a vacuum. All these changes will impact college basketball in much the same way.
Stay tuned.
One last rumor ...
There is a push to allow players that are on teams/conferences that cancel to be immediately eligible to transfer to play this fall. So, if the Big 10 stays canceled, along with the PAC-12, they will be gutted of all their best players as they move to teams that will play next month (again, the SEC?). This means a bunch of college "super-teams" this season and a bunch of damaged programs for next season (Is Michigan ready to lose to Western and Central Michigan?).
This is supposedly what Lawrence and the push for a the player's association will go for next after they get as many teams/conferences playing this season.
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/97e831a3e80f5331b5a68b0f8f158695/tumblr_p30t4wQafW1s2lfoto4_540.gifv)
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/cae2cea3545a31c1032675093e9a4429/tumblr_p30t4wQafW1s2lfoto2_540.gifv)
This is all being discussed in the Superbar in various topics.
Nebraska and Iowa likely can't just go it alone due to their grant in media rights.
oh hey zerohedge, no need to click that one.
Until players start getting sick. No doubt that it will happen. By the way most lineman are high risk because they're overweight.
Quote from: jficke13 on August 11, 2020, 10:11:18 AM
oh hey zerohedge, no need to click that one.
Why am I not surprised?
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 11, 2020, 09:29:13 AM
This is all being discussed in the Superbar in various topics.
Nebraska and Iowa likely can't just go it alone due to their grant in media rights.
Yep, and in addition to media rights, I'm betting there are plenty of terms in the conference contract that prevent them from suddenly becoming an independent or affiliating with another conference without some significant penalty.
And when you get past this one season, Nebraska and Iowa need the Big Ten a lot more than the Big Ten needs Nebraska and Iowa.
The BIG 10 just announced they will play football in the spring.
What happens with basketball? Next Summer (Mar to July)
Now that the Big 1? made it official, I suspect the Pac 12 will quickly follow suit.
Edit: Pac 12 is expected to make an announcement by around 1:00 PT.
https://twitter.com/johncanzanobft/status/1293260855572754432?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 11, 2020, 02:27:19 PM
The BIG 10 just announced they will play football in the spring.
What happens with basketball? Next Summer (Mar to July)
the goal is to have basketball, worst-case scenario starting in January.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 11, 2020, 02:34:50 PM
the goal is to have basketball, worst-case scenario starting in January.
Worst-case scenario? Seems like a best-case scenario to me....
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 11, 2020, 02:34:50 PM
the goal is to have basketball, worst-case scenario starting in January.
Highly unlikely.
and compete with football?
One example, if Bucky has a Saturday home game in Football and Basketball on the same day, how many go to the basketball game? Are they "risking" a loss in basketball revenue?
Or does football start in April (so they don't try to sell tickets for outdoor games in Janaury)? If so, how do their players get drafted? No combine or pro-days? Or do the 20 to 30 best players not play and water down the product for ticket paying fans?
So many questions, lots of implications.
Pac-12 just announced no fall football and they will also TRY and play in the sping.
two power five down, three to go.
So with these two in the spring, April or May Rose Bowl.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 11, 2020, 02:44:31 PM
and compete with football?
One example, if Bucky has a Saturday home game in Football and Basketball on the same day, how many go to the basketball game? Are they "risking" a loss in basketball revenue?
Or does football start in April (so they don't try to sell tickets for outdoor games in Janaury)? If so, how do their players get drafted? No combine or pro-days? Or do the 20 to 30 best players not play and water down the product for ticket paying fans?
So many questions, lots of implications.
Bucky has basketball games during football seasons all the time. They can adjust any scheduling conflicts if they have to.
There won't be football is spring, so it doesn't matter
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 11, 2020, 02:57:13 PM
Pac-12 just announced no fall football and they will also TRY and play in the sping.
two power five down, three to go.
So with these two in the spring, April or May Rose Bowl.
Pac 12 cancelled all sports through the end of the year, including CBB.
Spring football is interesting.
When would they play? March - May?
Then take a couple months off and start over again for Fall? I would think some additional down time may be in play.
Quote from: oldwarrior81 on August 11, 2020, 05:33:25 PM
Spring football is interesting.
When would they play? March - May?
Then take a couple months off and start over again for Fall? I would think some additional down time may be in play.
If they play, it'll be an abbreviated season. The NFL won't move the draft and combine. Kids would be smart to start preparing for the draft now.
At the rate we're going, nearly every sport will be looking to start next season sometime in the spring. College football and maybe basketball 'pushed back' until them, pro and college baseball looking to start next season at or near their 'normal' times, maybe even NFL football pushing back if they don't hurry up and figure out a 'bubble' strategy.
And that could all be happening just as people begin to start doing all the other things they're missing out on now, like family vacations and such.
Should be interesting....
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 11, 2020, 05:44:48 PM
If they play, it'll be an abbreviated season. The NFL won't move the draft and combine. Kids would be smart to start preparing for the draft now.
I agree with this. Two full football seasons in one year is not reasonable.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 11, 2020, 05:47:13 PM
I agree with this. Two full football seasons in one year is not reasonable.
Full seasons absolutely. But don't a lot of big schools have an abbreviated spring thing happening anyways?
This one has been inevitable for months. A more appropriate and accurate clickbait title might have been 'This week's tectonic shift in college sports'.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 11, 2020, 05:49:05 PM
Full seasons absolutely. But don't a lot of big schools have an abbreviated spring thing happening anyways?
They have spring practice and a scrimmage.
@jbook37: Penn State is now on board with leaving the Big Ten if they have to. So far 3 of the 4 rumored schools in Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska who supposedly was throwing out feelers to the Big 12 have confirmed in the last 24 hours they are indeed open to playing elsewhere.
----
Iowa is the fourth school.
Also, Big 12 and SEC schools are looking to poach the best BIG 10 players and lobbying the NCAA to allow immediate transfers of teams that elect to not play this fall.
Meanwhile the BIG 10 and PAC-12 are lobbying that all fall sports at all D1 conferences get postponed.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 11, 2020, 05:44:48 PM
If they play, it'll be an abbreviated season. The NFL won't move the draft and combine. Kids would be smart to start preparing for the draft now.
This makes the huge assumption that the NFL season will go off without a hitch. I could easily see that either being pushed back or being in a start/stop situation.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 11, 2020, 08:42:01 PM
@jbook37: Penn State is now on board with leaving the Big Ten if they have to. So far 3 of the 4 rumored schools in Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska who supposedly was throwing out feelers to the Big 12 have confirmed in the last 24 hours they are indeed open to playing elsewhere.
----
Iowa is the fourth school.
Also, Big 12 and SEC schools are looking to poach the best BIG 10 players and lobbying the NCAA to allow immediate transfers of teams that elect to not play this fall.
Meanwhile the BIG 10 and PAC-12 are lobbying that all fall sports at all D1 conferences get postponed.
Penn State leaving the Big Ten (they won't leave the money behind they'd lose in the Big XII) after the Big Ten kept them despite allowing a sexual predator to roam free on their campus to protect Joe Paterno would be extra juicy
This could poach the entire first and maybe second round of next's year NFL draft and water-down whatever spring football season college football thinks it will have.
The Spring League will be first to use bubble concept in football for October tournament in Las Vegas
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29638025/spring-league-become-first-utilize-bubble-concept-football-six-team-october-tournament-las-vegas
The Spring League is scheduling a six-team football tournament in Las Vegas in October, using a bubble concept that would be the first of its kind in the sport during the coronavirus pandemic.
The teams would be stocked mostly with players who were released by NFL teams, according to The Spring League CEO Brian Woods. But it would also include 20-30 college players from FBS Power 5 schools that either opted out of playing in 2020 or had their seasons canceled.
Why a college football season this year is so important ...
Wisconsin warns of potential athletic department loss of $100M even with a football season
https://sports.yahoo.com/wisconsin-were-facing-a-potential-athletic-department-loss-of-100-m-even-with-a-football-season-213559242.html
Wisconsin's athletic department is warning fans and donors of a huge decrease in revenue even if the 2020 football season is played.
In a letter to supporters Thursday, athletic director Barry Alvarez said that the department is expecting an approximate $100 million budget shortfall. Wisconsin's athletic budget is around $140 million, meaning the department could only get $40 million in revenue this upcoming athletic year.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 11, 2020, 08:42:01 PM
@jbook37: Penn State is now on board with leaving the Big Ten if they have to. So far 3 of the 4 rumored schools in Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska who supposedly was throwing out feelers to the Big 12 have confirmed in the last 24 hours they are indeed open to playing elsewhere.
----
Iowa is the fourth school.
Also, Big 12 and SEC schools are looking to poach the best BIG 10 players and lobbying the NCAA to allow immediate transfers of teams that elect to not play this fall.
Meanwhile the BIG 10 and PAC-12 are lobbying that all fall sports at all D1 conferences get postponed.
It would be hysterical if one or more of these teams left. The other conferences are eventually going to cancel anyway. So what will it get these teams - a few extra weeks of delusional thinking? Great.
MLB teams can't even do it, and they have smaller rosters, far less direct physical contact and nearly infinite resources. There is no way college football teams would last more than a couple of games...
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 11, 2020, 08:42:01 PM
@jbook37: Penn State is now on board with leaving the Big Ten if they have to. So far 3 of the 4 rumored schools in Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska who supposedly was throwing out feelers to the Big 12 have confirmed in the last 24 hours they are indeed open to playing elsewhere.
----
Iowa is the fourth school.
Also, Big 12 and SEC schools are looking to poach the best BIG 10 players and lobbying the NCAA to allow immediate transfers of teams that elect to not play this fall.
Meanwhile the BIG 10 and PAC-12 are lobbying that all fall sports at all D1 conferences get postponed.
ACC would be delighted to have Ohio State and Penn State for a season. Likewise Big 12 would roll out the red carpet for Nebraska and Iowa for a season.
I think the conferences who end up playing this fall will benefit in recruiting in the future.
Quote from: Newsdreams on August 11, 2020, 12:41:56 PM
Until players start getting sick. No doubt that it will happen. By the way most lineman are high risk because they're overweight.
This.
What will the plan be when a dozen or more players on a team get sick on a Wednesday? Cancel that week's games for both that team and the team they played the previous Saturday? And then what about the coaches, trainers, support staff? And then what about whomever the players and coaches/support staff came in contact with -- spouses, girlfriends, family members, classmates?
The idea that you can keep Mississippi State players and coaches and support staff safe when you can't keep St. Louis Cardinals players and coaches safe is pretty laughable. The big difference, of course, is that the Cardinals are well compensated to take the risks for themselves and their families.
This is the very definition of "folly."
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 11, 2020, 08:42:01 PM
@jbook37: Penn State is now on board with leaving the Big Ten if they have to. So far 3 of the 4 rumored schools in Ohio State, Penn State, Nebraska who supposedly was throwing out feelers to the Big 12 have confirmed in the last 24 hours they are indeed open to playing elsewhere.
----
Iowa is the fourth school.
Also, Big 12 and SEC schools are looking to poach the best BIG 10 players and lobbying the NCAA to allow immediate transfers of teams that elect to not play this fall.
Meanwhile the BIG 10 and PAC-12 are lobbying that all fall sports at all D1 conferences get postponed.
Gene Smith has already said that OSU isn't interested in playing elsewhere this fall. Regardless, both OSU and PSU presidents voted to delay the season. They aren't going anywhere.
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on August 11, 2020, 11:36:03 PM
ACC would be delighted to have Ohio State and Penn State for a season. Likewise Big 12 would roll out the red carpet for Nebraska and Iowa for a season.
I think the conferences who end up playing this fall will benefit in recruiting in the future.
It's not happening. Rumor is that the presidents have let Nebraska know that they would have to leave the conference for that to happen. The B10 doesn't have an exit fee, but controls their media rights.
It would be a really dumb decision to leave for one football season and leave that revenue on the table.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 12, 2020, 08:01:36 AM
Gene Smith has already said that OSU isn't interested in playing elsewhere this fall. Regardless, both OSU and PSU presidents voted to delay the season. They aren't going anywhere.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 12, 2020, 08:03:57 AM
It's not happening. Rumor is that the presidents have let Nebraska know that they would have to leave the conference for that to happen. The B10 doesn't have an exit fee, but controls their media rights.
It would be a really dumb decision to leave for one football season and leave that revenue on the table.
Agreed on both.
Any rumors about still playing are just to make fans think there might still be a chance. Kinda cruel to fuel false hope in the real hard core fans, IMO.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 12, 2020, 08:03:57 AM
It's not happening. Rumor is that the presidents have let Nebraska know that they would have to leave the conference for that to happen. The B10 doesn't have an exit fee, but controls their media rights.
It would be a really dumb decision to leave for one football season and leave that revenue on the table.
We are taking about Nebraska
Any threats to leave is just pandering to the COVID deniers in their fanbase....and trying to make the conference look like the bad guy instead of the school
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 12, 2020, 09:24:55 AM
Any threats to leave is just pandering to the COVID deniers in their fanbase....and trying to make the conference look like the bad guy instead of the school
Yup. This, exactly this.
Spin and nothing more.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 12, 2020, 08:56:28 AM
We are taking about Nebraska
Nebraska fans would be happy since they've been mediocre since joining the Big Ten and they miss their rivalries with Oklahoma and Texas. That said, money talks and the Nebraska administration says the additional $13 million to $17 million in TV revenue they receive for being in the Big Ten is what matters in the end.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 12, 2020, 11:23:16 AM
Nebraska fans would be happy since they've been mediocre since joining the Big Ten and they miss their rivalries with Oklahoma and Texas. That said, money talks and the Nebraska administration says the additional $13 million to $17 million in TV revenue they receive for being in the Big Ten is what matters in the end.
Yup. The fan base spent a decade bemoaning unfair advantages for Texas football and left for the cash of the Big Ten. The product on the field has been mediocre at best since as they grasp at a relevancy of a time long since past. They have no natural recruiting grounds and kids from Florida, California and Texas are going to red a heck of a reason to go to Lincoln for 3-4 years.
Tom Osborne was a great coach who had offenses that could outmuscle you and execute flawlessly (see: Wisconsin). They also certainly used performance enhancers in a time where testing was lax. Those days are gone. All schools have great strength programs and their offense isn't anything special anymore. The ceiling for Nebraska is Wisconsin
SPORTS, SPORTS, AND MORE SPORTS.
Get a job, a real JOB.
Grow up.
Yes, the world has changed, the Roman Colosseum is no more, just like the 6th century A.D., it's over folks.
When our industrial base was exported they had to come up with make work for millions of people, perhaps tens of millions.
So they created travel, entertainment, and sports.The circus and the Ring Master have seen their day. Here we are the end of the world as we knew it.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 12, 2020, 12:55:55 PM
SPORTS, SPORTS, AND MORE SPORTS.
Get a job, a real JOB.
Grow up.
Yes, the world has changed, the Roman Colosseum is no more, just like the 6th century A.D., it's over folks.
When our industrial base was exported they had to come up with make work for millions of people, perhaps tens of millions.
So they created travel, entertainment, and sports.The circus and the Ring Master have seen their day. Here we are the end of the world as we knew it.
You're on quite the roll today.
t
restore the Coliseum. bring the gladiators back
Sh yes. It is always great to have sports become highly, highly politicized. The country is turning into slack jawed hairy wet cats.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 12, 2020, 03:33:44 PM
The country is turning into slack jawed hairy wet cats.
If memory serves me correct, this was a very close second place mascot to the Golden Eagle. ;D
@SirYacht 54m
Source: B1G officials just met. Ohio State, Nebraska, Iowa and Michigan are set on playing this fall. Illinois and Northwestern are only schools that are not thinking about playing. If Big Ten doesn't have football, teams will be allowed to join other leagues.
The White House was also involved in the meeting today, pressing the Big Ten to play.
@SirYacht 9m
Main reason for the call btw was that Ohio State and Nebraska will play elsewhere if the B1G does not have a season
@SirYacht 8h
-Iowa, Michigan & Nebraska are talking joining Big 12 seriously
-Ohio State if it plays anywhere else will be in the ACC. Big reason for this is to schedule home game vs. Notre Dame in the fall
-No B1G teams will play in SEC
-Conference call tomorrow at 3 pm to finalize plans
Oklahoma players already sick.
Quote from: Newsdreams on August 15, 2020, 10:47:12 PM
Oklahoma players already sick.
Perfect. Open spot in the Big 12.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 12, 2020, 03:33:44 PM
Sh yes. It is always great to have sports become highly, highly politicized. The country is turning into slack jawed hairy wet cats.
BUT, with much less chronic traumatic encephalopathy.
Personally, I no longer find it amusing to see young men become maimed.
But, if others enjoy high risk sport as entertainment then why not play Russian Roulette with COVID as well.
Don't see what is political about my comments, it is just ethics, morals and science.
BTW, I've been doing a little research on Lacrosse injuries and find that sport is more dangerous than I knew. The realignment of university sports budgets may end a lot of sports.
I have supported Division 3 football and find that most colleges have canceled the season.
My progression from a football fan to a football objector has taken 20+ years. I was once a Greenbay season ticket holder, at Milwaukee County Stadium, not Greenbay.
I know a few young men who suffered concussions playing division 3 football, first rate colleges, STEM majors. I feel very sad for them and their families. No politics involved.
As long as the athletes on scholarship are able to complete their educations, are games that important? It's certainly not an essential activity and all the focus should be on them achieving academic excellence. It's not-athlete student, it's student athlete
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 15, 2020, 11:24:19 PM
As long as the athletes on scholarship are able to complete their educations, are games that important? It's certainly not an essential activity and all the focus should be on them achieving academic excellence. It's not-athlete student, it's student athlete
Lets throw some stats out there that will make you wonder why football should be played:
1) There are 43 million people in our country between 17-24
2) out of that group, 202 have died, most with preexisting conditions, less than .00004 of the that population
3) Driving back to school has a higher danger than covid
4) Only let kids into the games that are less than 25 years old, and let the games begin.
Just make sense to let them play. If a player gets Covid, the player is out for 2 weeks minimum and has to pass 2 tests before coming back, simple
Quote from: BCHoopster on August 16, 2020, 12:15:34 AM
Lets throw some stats out there that will make you wonder why football should be played:
1) There are 43 million people in our country between 17-24
2) out of that group, 202 have died, most with preexisting conditions, less than .00004 of the that population
3) Driving back to school has a higher danger than covid
4) Only let kids into the games that are less than 25 years old, and let the games begin.
Just make sense to let them play. If a player gets Covid, the player is out for 2 weeks minimum and has to pass 2 tests before coming back, simple
How many times does it need to be explained? It's not just about them. It's also about who they pass it to.
Not to mention that dying isn't the only thing that can go wrong here.
Seriously have people not been paying attention the last few months?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 15, 2020, 09:51:07 PM
@SirYacht 54m
Source: B1G officials just met. Ohio State, Nebraska, Iowa and Michigan are set on playing this fall. Illinois and Northwestern are only schools that are not thinking about playing. If Big Ten doesn't have football, teams will be allowed to join other leagues.
The White House was also involved in the meeting today, pressing the Big Ten to play.
@SirYacht 9m
Main reason for the call btw was that Ohio State and Nebraska will play elsewhere if the B1G does not have a season
@SirYacht 8h
-Iowa, Michigan & Nebraska are talking joining Big 12 seriously
-Ohio State if it plays anywhere else will be in the ACC. Big reason for this is to schedule home game vs. Notre Dame in the fall
-No B1G teams will play in SEC
-Conference call tomorrow at 3 pm to finalize plans
Kinda looks like you're quoting an admitted troll.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 16, 2020, 03:32:38 AM
Kinda looks like you're quoting an admitted troll.
Yep, I'll believe that any of that happens when I see it happen.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 16, 2020, 03:26:34 AM
How many times does it need to be explained? It's not just about them. It's also about who they pass it to.
Not to mention that dying isn't the only thing that can go wrong here.
Seriously have people not been paying attention the last few months?
You are correct. But the people who don't want to hear it will continue to ignore the reality, not matter how many times it is explained.
Ignorance is bliss.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 16, 2020, 08:28:49 AM
You are correct. But the people who don't want to hear it will continue to ignore the reality, not matter how many times it is explained.
Ignorance is bliss.
In other words, they don't care. Nothing will change their ideology, they don't care.
Quote from: Newsdreams on August 15, 2020, 10:47:12 PM
Oklahoma players already sick.
We are Americans, we don't care.
Quote from: Newsdreams on August 15, 2020, 10:47:12 PM
Oklahoma players already sick.
These Oklahoma players tested positive after they came back from a break Riley gave the team after there season opener was postponed.
Oklahoma says a lot, it may say it all.
Football players are just cannon fodder.
Hire them, run them, watch them get sick or hurt, and fire them.
One year scollarships, its good for business.
As long as they are willing and there is money to be made, why not?
It is the American way.
Not unlike Vietnam.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 16, 2020, 03:48:08 PM
Oklahoma says a lot, it may say it all.
Football players are just cannon fodder.
Hire them, run them, watch them get sick or hurt, and fire them.
One year scollarships, its good for business.
As long as they are willing and there is money to be made, why not?
It is the American way.
Not unlike Vietnam.
Vogue
Did you just equate a Vietnam veteran's war experience to the experience of a Sooner fball player?
Wow.
Quote from: moomoo on August 16, 2020, 03:56:41 PM
Vogue
Did you just equate a Vietnam veteran's war experience to the experience of a Sooner fball player?
Wow.
I know, right?
Rutgers, I could understand. They're disrespected on college campuses across the nation, have little support back home, have virtually no chance of success and have been sold down the river by imbecilic leadership.
But Oklahoma?
Notre Dame back to school for a week and they've seen a spike on campus UNC has four clusters in different residence halls after a week back.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 16, 2020, 03:48:08 PM
Oklahoma says a lot, it may say it all.
Football players are just cannon fodder.
Hire them, run them, watch them get sick or hurt, and fire them.
One year scollarships, its good for business.
As long as they are willing and there is money to be made, why not?
It is the American way.
Not unlike Vietnam.
This board is really hard to read when it comes to COVID.
But, I have no one else to blame but myself for reading this crap. I respect people's opinions about college sports here but nothing else. And no one should respect my opinions about COVID either.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 16, 2020, 04:37:23 PM
I know, right?
Rutgers, I could understand. They're disrespected on college campuses across the nation, have little support back home, have virtually no chance of success and have been sold down the river by imbecilic leadership.
But Oklahoma?
This. Is. Goooooooooood.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 16, 2020, 04:37:23 PM
I know, right?
Rutgers, I could understand. They're disrespected on college campuses across the nation, have little support back home, have virtually no chance of success and have been sold down the river by imbecilic leadership.
But Oklahoma?
Well done, Pakuni - hilarious. Many years ago (20, maybe 30) a new president was installed at Oklahoma. In his initial press conference, he said his first priority was building a university that the football team could be proud of. More truth is said in jest...
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 16, 2020, 05:40:38 PM
Notre Dame back to school for a week and they've seen a spike on campus UNC has four clusters in different residence halls after a week back.
ND's spike was linked to a 100 student off campus party, just glad there wasn't a pandemic when PKT had their 100 kegger!
Quote from: lurch91 on August 16, 2020, 08:13:54 PM
ND's spike was linked to a 100 student off campus party, just glad there wasn't a pandemic when PKT had their 100 kegger!
The definition of off campus is alarming in this situation. These kids are on campus for classes, labs, studying and recreation. They merely don't live in ND housing.
It's an effing problem.
Quote from: Retire0 on August 16, 2020, 08:16:55 PM
The definition of off campus is alarming in this situation. These kids are on campus for classes, labs, studying and recreation. They merely don't live in ND housing.
It's an effing problem.
It's a big problem because there isn't oversight like there theoretically would be in residence halls.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 16, 2020, 08:28:49 AM
You are correct. But the people who don't want to hear it will continue to ignore the reality, not matter how many times it is explained.
Ignorance is bliss.
Yeah I agree but ignorance can be cure, but Stupidity sometimes last forever.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 15, 2020, 09:51:07 PM
@SirYacht 54m
Source: B1G officials just met. Ohio State, Nebraska, Iowa and Michigan are set on playing this fall. Illinois and Northwestern are only schools that are not thinking about playing. If Big Ten doesn't have football, teams will be allowed to join other leagues.
The White House was also involved in the meeting today, pressing the Big Ten to play.
@SirYacht 9m
Main reason for the call btw was that Ohio State and Nebraska will play elsewhere if the B1G does not have a season
@SirYacht 8h
-Iowa, Michigan & Nebraska are talking joining Big 12 seriously
-Ohio State if it plays anywhere else will be in the ACC. Big reason for this is to schedule home game vs. Notre Dame in the fall
-No B1G teams will play in SEC
-Conference call tomorrow at 3 pm to finalize plans
What happened during the big conference call? I couldn't find anything on ESPN, The Athletic or any other site.
Da kall wuz defunded, aina?
Quote from: mufanatic on August 16, 2020, 03:34:33 PM
These Oklahoma players tested positive after they came back from a break Riley gave the team after there season opener was postponed.
Was traced to community infection in Norman.
Quote from: moomoo on August 16, 2020, 03:56:41 PM
Vogue
Did you just equate a Vietnam veteran's war experience to the experience of a Sooner fball player?
Wow.
Yes, bring them in, use them up, throw them out.
Is that so hard to understand or equate?
Vietnam was much worse, you ended up DOA. Oh, only 58,000, plus WIA, MIA, and 60,000 suicides.
Sooner football does not put the players first. Big time college football does not put the student athlete first.
As I have said here a few times, much of my wardrobe is made in vietnam.
We lost and where are the falling the Dominos? Vietnam is doing just fine withous us.
When I see leadership, administrations, (schools, universities, governments, politicians) putting themselves ahead of the students, players, citizens, or soldiers I think of Vietnam. Sorry, just how my mind works and it's getting worse.
We are talking body count one way or the other. 170,000 dead from COVID. O.K. discount for the very old, adjust for the overweight smokers, don't count those who have a death certificate saying something else like heart attack and its still a big deal. Not worth college sports. My Vietnam number was over 10 years, COVID is just 6 months and counting. Maybe you are right it doesn't equate after all. It's much worse. Might be even worse than the flu.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 16, 2020, 09:33:10 PM
Yes, bring them in, use them up, throw them out.
Is that so hard to understand or equate?
Vietnam was much worse, you ended up DOA. Oh, only 58,000, plus WIA, MIA, and 60,000 suicides.
Sooner football does not put the players first. Big time college football does not put the student athlete first.
As I have said here a few times, much of my wardrobe is made in vietnam.
We lost and where are the falling the Dominos? Vietnam is doing just fine withous us.
When I see leadership, administrations, (schools, universities, governments, politicians) putting themselves ahead of the students, players, citisens, or soldiers I think of Vietnam.
Thank you. We are all much dumber after reading this.
Talk to a person from Vietnam before posting this crap. I have talked to a recent iimmigrant, less than 1 year, and she paints a very, very different picture.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 16, 2020, 09:55:34 PM
Thank you. We are all much dumber after reading this.
Talk to a person from Vietnam before posting this crap. I have talked to a recent iimmigrant, less than 1 year, and she paints a very, very different picture.
Yes, there are those who still believe the dream. What do you suggest, we go back in and try again? I know the party line well, this time we have better doctrine, better equipment, night vision, satellites, smart munitions, blah, blah, blah.
Don't we all have friends who are from Vietnam? My V.A. Phd. Pharmacist is living the American dream, good for her.
Whatever different picture may be painted they aren't dying from us.
I will always post crap that supports peace. I can wave the flag along with anybody.
I hope nobody dies tonight from left over unexploded munitions.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 16, 2020, 10:09:26 PM
Yes, there are those who still believe the dream. What do you suggest, we go back in and try again? I know the party line well, this time we have better doctrine, better equipment, night vision, satellites, smart munitions, blah, blah, blah.
Don't we all have friends who are from Vietnam? My V.A. Phd. Pharmacist is living the American dream, good for her.
Whatever different picture may be painted they aren't dying from us.
I will always post crap that supports peace. I can wave the flag along with anybody.
I hope nobody dies tonight from left over unexploded munitions.
Try as I might every time I get about two sentences into anything you post my eyes glaze over.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 16, 2020, 03:48:08 PM
Oklahoma says a lot, it may say it all.
Football players are just cannon fodder.
Hire them, run them, watch them get sick or hurt, and fire them.
One year scollarships, its good for business.
As long as they are willing and there is money to be made, why not?
It is the American way.
Not unlike Vietnam.
Is this your one and only outlet where you can launch on your anti American screeds and hate? You really are completely unhinged every time you post your vile rhetoric here. Get some help please.
Quote from: Jables1604 on August 16, 2020, 10:57:30 PM
Try as I might every time I get about two sentences into anything you post my eyes glaze over.
I get it, been hearing that for years.
Anyway, thanks for trying.
It's not easy reading something outside the box.
It's like poetry, an acquired taste.
We have a member who uses old Polish dialog, I think that is what it is.
I have to go slow and interpert his meaning. Sometimes I get it, sometimes I don't. At least I know it's him.
The way I look at it is that my posts don't bore ME. They may put some to sleep, but they are fun to write, ha.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on August 16, 2020, 11:05:36 PM
Is this your one and only outlet where you can launch on your anti American screeds and hate? You really are completely unhinged every time you post your vile rhetoric here. Get some help please.
I've had lots of help and they say I'm just different.
When the Air Force shrunk me, I was with ICBM launce officers at the time, they called themselves Missileers, typical, they were all straight shooters, and they all really fit in. Two of us were found to be unique, different, outside the box. Thank God the others were all so squeaky clean.
For a long time I thought I was nuts, now I understand that some people can't tolerate me, I make them uncomfortable, sorry. Tolerance is hard for some people.
I have credentials that say I'm verfiable patriotic, although I don't plant or wave flags. "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels". I have no idea where the charge of hate comes from, that's a new one.
When I was in the Marines they noticed my talents and gave me an opportunity to use them.
Please be more specific about being completely unhinged. And vile rhetoric is also a new one on me.
It's getting to be closing time at the Vogue and the conversation starts getting a little slurred.
Time to clean up and count the money. I enjoyed being the night bartender at the Vogue. It was a time and place where people could talk face to face, honestly express themselves and show respect. There was no hiding behind the anonymity of the internet.
The Vogue, a little history, was a Cocktail Bar across the street from the library next to the original Real Chili. From the Vogue, with diploma in hand, I went into the Marines never to be the same, and I was very lucky. 1966 was a good year, for some of us.
You want to talk about Americanism, read the last stand at Khe Sanh. My OCS class is there, my friend is there, you know the guy with the service dog, the black lab. The dog keeps him hinged.
My heel spurs are acting up, time to turn out the lamp.
https://news.yahoo.com/how-the-coronavirus-could-change-college-sports-forever-173010824.html
The pandemic may have shifted the balance of power in favor of the athletes, who have suddenly been shown how much their schools rely on them. Before their seasons were canceled, football players from the Pac-12 banded together to create a list of demands including safety protocols and the right to financial compensation. The #WeWantToPlay movement also called for the creation of a college football players association. These collective actions could eventually lead to the creation of a players union and the end of amateurism.
Quote from: MU82 on August 16, 2020, 08:57:12 PM
What happened during the big conference call? I couldn't find anything on ESPN, The Athletic or any other site.
@siryacht
B1G commissioner Kevin Warren scrapped the idea of Big Ten teams playing in the ACC and the Big 12, per source.
Warren is working with B1G presidents to reverse his original idea and see if they are able to have a conference season this fall.
@siryacht
Warren and B1G presidents determined today there 100% will not be a SPRING college football season, per source. Trying for the fall.
The objective is to try and figure out a way to have a bubble for the players to be isolated from other students on campus.
@siryacht
Source said they want to work fast on this and expect to come up with a decision on whether there will be a Big Ten football season in the next few days.
Warren changed his tone out of fear of teams going to other conferences and anger from players and parents.
@siryacht
Your favorite reporters know this information but will not talk about this out of fear of backlash of the B1G season not happening. But I don't care.
I'm letting everyone know they're doing everything in their power to have Big 10 college football this fall.
Yeah giving college students a free education for playing football is JUST like Vietnam. 🙄🙄🙄
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 17, 2020, 05:42:25 AM
https://news.yahoo.com/how-the-coronavirus-could-change-college-sports-forever-173010824.html
The pandemic may have shifted the balance of power in favor of the athletes, who have suddenly been shown how much their schools rely on them. Before their seasons were canceled, football players from the Pac-12 banded together to create a list of demands including safety protocols and the right to financial compensation. The #WeWantToPlay movement also called for the creation of a college football players association. These collective actions could eventually lead to the creation of a players union and the end of amateurism.
Welcome to the party, pal
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 17, 2020, 07:12:04 AM
Yeah giving college students a free education for playing football is JUST like Vietnam. 🙄🙄🙄
Not exactly, but there are similarities.
The number of fatalities.
The poor pay of grunts.
The military has long used a free education as a lure for enlistments. I used the G.I. Bill for my M.B.A..
Not to mention that the big time football players get a one year "free education". When they get hurt they are just like cannon fodder.
We can glorify war all we want, but our V.A. Hospitals are full of the real price of service.
There are many former students carrying around long term negative physical consequences of playing for which they were never compensated.
Otherwise you are right, apples and oranges.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 17, 2020, 07:49:04 AM
Not exactly, but there are similarities.
The number of fatalities.
WTF?
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 17, 2020, 07:56:10 AM
WTF?
Vietnam, 50,000 in 10 years plus suicides
COVID, 170,000 in 6 months and counting
BTW, Vietnam just had its first case
First things first, first get the pandemic under control and then play football if you must.
That's WTF.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 17, 2020, 08:03:56 AM
Vietnam, 50,000 in 10 years plus suicides
COVID, 170,000 in 6 months and counting
BTW, Vietnam just had its first case
First things first, first get the pandemic under control and then play football if you must.
That's WTF.
What does this have to do with college football?
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 17, 2020, 08:09:11 AM
What does this have to do with college football?
Nothing. This thread has taken the classic Scoopaloop turn.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 17, 2020, 08:09:11 AM
What does this have to do with college football?
Good question, what does college football have to do with COVID?
Answer, everything. Bergamo Italy believes that the rapid spread of COVID started at a soccer game. Crowds and close contact are a problem.
What does COVID have to do with Vietnam?
Answer, everything.
The second greatest mass fatality event in my lifetime.
A political event which is tearing our country apart.
What does football have to do with Vietnam?
Under paid gladiators, war-fighters performing for others at their personal expense.
Granted most Vietnam casualties were drafted and football players are volunteers.
However, the outcome is similar.
Problem number one is the virus, problem number two is the government handling of problem number one, and problem number three is Americas handling of college football players. Similar to Americas handling of Vietnam.
America has a strange way of dealing with big problems. America lets politics rule everything. Great in the 18 century, not so great in the 21st.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 17, 2020, 08:57:25 AM
Good question, what does college football have to do with COVID?
Answer, everything. Bergamo Italy believes that the rapid spread of COVID started at a soccer game. Crowds and close contact are a problem.
What does COVID have to do with Vietnam?
Answer, everything.
The second greatest mass fatality event in my lifetime.
A political event which is tearing our country apart.
What does football have to do with Vietnam?
Under paid gladiators, war-fighters performing for others at their personal expense.
Granted most Vietnam casualties were drafted and football players are volunteers.
However, the outcome is similar.
Problem number one is the virus, problem number two is the government handling of problem number one, and problem number three is Americas handling of college football players. Similar to Americas handling of Vietnam.
America has a strange way of dealing with big problems. America lets politics rule everything. Great in the 18 century, not so great in the 21st.
This philosophical word salad is....something.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 17, 2020, 08:57:25 AM
Good question, what does college football have to do with COVID?
Answer, everything. Bergamo Italy believes that the rapid spread of COVID started at a soccer game. Crowds and close contact are a problem.
What does COVID have to do with Vietnam?
Answer, everything.
The second greatest mass fatality event in my lifetime.
A political event which is tearing our country apart.
What does football have to do with Vietnam?
Under paid gladiators, war-fighters performing for others at their personal expense.
Granted most Vietnam casualties were drafted and football players are volunteers.
However, the outcome is similar.
Problem number one is the virus, problem number two is the government handling of problem number one, and problem number three is Americas handling of college football players. Similar to Americas handling of Vietnam.
America has a strange way of dealing with big problems. America lets politics rule everything. Great in the 18 century, not so great in the 21st.
Given the way you connected COVID to Vietnam, we could use the same logic to rail against just about anything.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 17, 2020, 05:49:38 AM
@siryacht
B1G commissioner Kevin Warren scrapped the idea of Big Ten teams playing in the ACC and the Big 12, per source.
Warren is working with B1G presidents to reverse his original idea and see if they are able to have a conference season this fall.
@siryacht
Warren and B1G presidents determined today there 100% will not be a SPRING college football season, per source. Trying for the fall.
The objective is to try and figure out a way to have a bubble for the players to be isolated from other students on campus.
@siryacht
Source said they want to work fast on this and expect to come up with a decision on whether there will be a Big Ten football season in the next few days.
Warren changed his tone out of fear of teams going to other conferences and anger from players and parents.
@siryacht
Your favorite reporters know this information but will not talk about this out of fear of backlash of the B1G season not happening. But I don't care.
I'm letting everyone know they're doing everything in their power to have Big 10 college football this fall.
In other words, just about everything in your post of August 15, 2020, 09:51:07 PM turned out to be BS, with "SirYacht" having no clue about what actually was going to happen.
Thanks for keeping us up to date with bad information from a source who apparently is taking wild guesses. Very useful!
Quote from: lurch91 on August 17, 2020, 09:55:06 AM
Given the way you connected COVID to Vietnam, we could use the same logic to rail against just about anything.
Yes, anything as important as COVID, Vietnam and college football.
I would not waste my time railing against less important subjects.
In my lifetime COVID, Vietnam and the undue influence of college football warrant a good rail.
The lack of common sense, science, ethics and morals surrounding these three subjects connect them in my mind.
Perhaps in the mind of others they are compartmentalized, I understand that.
It is only in hindsight that I see what were the truly important events in my life.
That is why they are so clear in my mind.
For example, the JFK assination (I was walking in the alley next to the old Union), LBJ declares he would not run for re-election (I was in a Quantico bar at the station), 9/11 (I was at a conference in Orlando), COVID (My wife was in Bergamo and got out just in time).
My mind can find patternicity in all these events. Most people would not.
I would not claim that my process is logical. All I can say is that it works for me.
Therefore: yes there is a tectonic change coming in college sports. It has probably happened and we can't or won't see it. It is a big event like the JFK assenation, COVID, 9/11, and yes, Vietnam. So why not connect big events, tectonic events?
Quote from: vogue65 on August 17, 2020, 10:37:41 AM
Therefore: yes there is a tectonic change coming in college sports. It has probably happened and we can't or won't see it. It is a big event like the JFK assenation, COVID, 9/11, and yes, Vietnam. So why not connect big events, tectonic events?
You forgot Hiroshima!
Quote from: vogue65 on August 17, 2020, 10:37:41 AM
[...]
My mind can find patternicity in all these events. Most people would not.
[...]
This is getting... performance art-ish.
Quote from: MU82 on August 17, 2020, 10:09:37 AM
In other words, just about everything in your post of August 15, 2020, 09:51:07 PM turned out to be BS, with "SirYacht" having no clue about what actually was going to happen.
Thanks for keeping us up to date with bad information from a source who apparently is taking wild guesses. Very useful!
He's not even taking bad guesses. He is making wild statements so Pat McAfee will talk about him.
https://twitter.com/SirYacht/status/1295360113461596160?s=20
I think the idea that Ohio State and Michigan are looking to play football elsewhere, even though their Presidents voted to not play football this fall, is hilarious.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 17, 2020, 10:37:41 AM
Yes, anything as important as COVID, Vietnam and college football.
I would not waste my time railing against less important subjects.
In my lifetime COVID, Vietnam and the undue influence of college football warrant a good rail.
The lack of common sense, science, ethics and morals surrounding these three subjects connect them in my mind.
Perhaps in the mind of others they are compartmentalized, I understand that.
It is only in hindsight that I see what were the truly important events in my life.
That is why they are so clear in my mind.
For example, the JFK assination (I was walking in the alley next to the old Union), LBJ declares he would not run for re-election (I was in a Quantico bar at the station), 9/11 (I was at a conference in Orlando), COVID (My wife was in Bergamo and got out just in time).
My mind can find patternicity in all these events. Most people would not.
I would not claim that my process is logical. All I can say is that it works for me.
Therefore: yes there is a tectonic change coming in college sports. It has probably happened and we can't or won't see it. It is a big event like the JFK assenation, COVID, 9/11, and yes, Vietnam. So why not connect big events, tectonic events?
Vogue,
I like posters with some perspective. I may not agree with you on everything but appreciate how your numerous lifetime experiences formed your thought processes and perspectives. Keep being you.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 17, 2020, 10:37:41 AM
Yes, anything as important as COVID, Vietnam and college football.
I would not waste my time railing against less important subjects.
In my lifetime COVID, Vietnam and the undue influence of college football warrant a good rail.
The lack of common sense, science, ethics and morals surrounding these three subjects connect them in my mind.
Perhaps in the mind of others they are compartmentalized, I understand that.
It is only in hindsight that I see what were the truly important events in my life.
That is why they are so clear in my mind.
For example, the JFK assination (I was walking in the alley next to the old Union), LBJ declares he would not run for re-election (I was in a Quantico bar at the station), 9/11 (I was at a conference in Orlando), COVID (My wife was in Bergamo and got out just in time).
My mind can find patternicity in all these events. Most people would not.
I would not claim that my process is logical. All I can say is that it works for me.
Therefore: yes there is a tectonic change coming in college sports. It has probably happened and we can't or won't see it. It is a big event like the JFK assenation, COVID, 9/11, and yes, Vietnam. So why not connect big events, tectonic events?
I agree that, like Vietnam, COVID is an historic event that will be talked about for decades - probably centuries - to come.
But I still want to know how Kevin Bacon fits into all this.
Quote from: MU82 on August 17, 2020, 10:48:14 AM
You forgot Hiroshima!
I was two, but you are correct, a game changer for sure.
Where does the invention of the internet rank on this impactful events scale? Seems like it's done as much harm as good.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 17, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Vogue,
I like posters with some perspective. I may not agree with you on everything but appreciate how your numerous lifetime experiences formed your thought processes and perspectives. Keep being you.
Thanks, it took a couple of shrinks to convince me that it was O.K. being me. The system is set up for a certain way of thinking. My wife is a Doctor with organized, logical, scientific thinking.
Anyone remember Dr. Simmons, The Scientific Art of Logic? I got an F, had to repeat it with another teacher, I got a D and could have cared less. I got the requirement.
Today I can perform inside the box, but outside is more fun. Scoop can be way outside the box although most people think Scoop is mainstream.
Thanks again.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 17, 2020, 02:46:39 PM
Where does the invention of the internet rank on this impactful events scale? Seems like it's done as much harm as good.
It has not fundamentally changed much. It is faster and more anonymous with easier collaborating, but it's just data storage like a library and communication like a telaphone. It is same, same but much faster.
Did you read the brouhaha here about fads? I find it hard to seperate out fads from evolutions and transformative events.
I have had 5 Weber grills, they have changed and improved, but it's still a grill and it cooks my steak.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 17, 2020, 01:55:14 PM
I agree that, like Vietnam, COVID is an historic event that will be talked about for decades - probably centuries - to come.
But I still want to know how Kevin Bacon fits into all this.
Very funny, sad to say my movie knowledge is pathetic. Hay, you can't do everything.
I get an education around here all the time.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 17, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Vogue,
I like posters with some perspective. I may not agree with you on everything but appreciate how your numerous lifetime experiences formed your thought processes and perspectives. Keep being you.
Seconded.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 17, 2020, 03:01:05 PM
It has not fundamentally changed much. It is faster and more anonymous with easier collaborating, but it's just data storage like a library and communication like a telaphone. It is same, same but much faster.
Did you read the brouhaha here about fads? I find it hard to seperate out fads from evolutions and transformative events.
I have had 5 Weber grills, they have changed and improved, but it's still a grill and it cooks my steak.
The faster transmission of information had compressed decision cycles . Social anonymity Creates a vehicle for enhanced tension .
Paradigm changing advancements
1. Jet Planes
2. Air Conditioning
3. Internet
4. Interstate System
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on August 17, 2020, 07:24:47 PM
The faster transmission of information had compressed decision cycles . Social anonymity Creates a vehicle for enhanced tension .
Paradigm changing advancements
1. Jet Planes
2. Air Conditioning
3. Internet
4. Interstate System
Interesting list.
I flew from New York to Milwaukee on D.C. 7's, then the turboprop Electra, then the 707.
Now New York to Europe on 767 or 777. New York to Milwaukee on a small Ebinar jet. Faster, but cramped.
Not much really changed except larger, faster, higher and longer range. Along with smaller seats, fewer toilets per passenger, and biger airport's.
Air Conditioning was a big deal. Closed down local dairies, created the frozen food industry, moved the population south, you are right, a true paradigm shift.
The interstate road system redefined America. It hurt the rail industry, and made Walmart possible, big change. Again faster point to point truck delivery. Just in time, etc. Looks like paradigm can simply mean faster. The interstate mostly effected transportation.
I don't think that just because an industry evolves we have a paradigm shift. I'd say Air Conditioning is the bigest true paradigm shift. It created a new technology, and had widespread impact.
I'm just playing mind games with myself. Easier to say all change is a paradigm shift of sorts.
I'd argue the 24-hour news cycle coupled with overturning the equal time doctrine. This, along with the CNN coverage of Desert Storm, moved news from being a source of information to just another ratings/marketing ploy. The consequence has changed our government from being built on compromise to strict, unwavering tribalism.
Let's try and steer this back to college football.
Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren has led the effort to cancel the fall football season. He has repeatedly said it is unsafe to play.
His son is Powers Warren. He is a redshirt junior tight end at Mississippi State.
He began practice this week and will play this fall.
I'm sure Kevin is very proud of him and looks forward to watching him play.
https://www.outkick.com/big-ten-commissioners-son-is-playing-at-mississippi-state-this-fall/
Warren is rightfully getting a lot of flak over how the Big Ten has handled this situation.
But he works for the Presidents. It was them who decided to shut down the season. And it was them who are hanging their commissioner out to dry. Granted a more experienced guy like Jim Delaney would not have let that happen, but no one really seems to be calling out the B10 presidents.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 18, 2020, 07:03:56 AM
Let's try and steer this back to college football.
Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren has led the effort to cancel the fall football season. He has repeatedly said it is unsafe to play.
His son is Powers Warren. He is a redshirt junior tight end at Mississippi State.
He began practice this week and will play this fall.
I'm sure Kevin is very proud of him and looks forward to watching him play.
https://www.outkick.com/big-ten-commissioners-son-is-playing-at-mississippi-state-this-fall/
Let's try and get away from irrevelant details and talk about tectonic change.
Are we talking about a game here or there, a coach, a commissioners news release or as one has broached, a paradigm shift?
Are we living thru a blip or will college sports change from now forward?
For example, will there ever again be in person political conventions?
One season does not make for tectonic (the real topic) change. Or does it?
In no world is college football "essential"
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 18, 2020, 11:16:53 AM
In no world is college football "essential"
Depends on what world your are from ....
1. Tuscaloosa
2. Tallahasse
3. South Bend
4. Lincoln
5. Baton Rouge
6 . Etc
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on August 18, 2020, 01:13:46 PM
Depends on what world your are from ....
1. Tuscaloosa
2. Tallahasse
3. South Bend
4. Lincoln
5. Baton Rouge
6 . Etc
Interesting how most of those places have COVID numbers that are off the charts....
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on August 18, 2020, 01:13:46 PM
Depends on what world your are from ....
1. Tuscaloosa
2. Tallahasse
3. South Bend
4. Lincoln
5. Baton Rouge
6 . Etc
That's a cultural problem
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 18, 2020, 11:16:53 AM
In no world is college football "essential"
I agree with your point in general. However the decision to cancel football impacts more than just greedy schools trying to make millions. Football generates revenue that goes to funding all aspects of the university. Without it, thousands of people will lose their jobs, academic programs will get cut, financial aid will get cut, the decision has a very far reaching impact. Bill School once said that Marquette basketball generated $7 for every $1 the university spent on it. Most of that money goes back into supporting the university, not lining its pockets. I'd imagine football has an even bigger impact on football schools than basketball does here.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 18, 2020, 02:16:53 PM
I agree with your point in general. However the decision to cancel football impacts more than just greedy schools trying to make millions. Football generates revenue that goes to funding all aspects of the university. Without it, thousands of people will lose their jobs, academic programs will get cut, financial aid will get cut, the decision has a very far reaching impact. Bill School once said that Marquette basketball generated $7 for every $1 the university spent on it. Most of that money goes back into supporting the university, not lining its pockets. I'd imagine football has an even bigger impact on football schools than basketball does here.
I'm aware of the economic impact college football games have in general. Restaurants and bars are pandemic spreaders. If they play college football with full stadiums, partial stadiums, 1/4 filled stadiums, we already know the results. Universities made their bed with the devil. The bill always comes due
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 18, 2020, 02:16:53 PM
I agree with your point in general. However the decision to cancel football impacts more than just greedy schools trying to make millions. Football generates revenue that goes to funding all aspects of the university. Without it, thousands of people will lose their jobs, academic programs will get cut, financial aid will get cut, the decision has a very far reaching impact. Bill School once said that Marquette basketball generated $7 for every $1 the university spent on it. Most of that money goes back into supporting the university, not lining its pockets. I'd imagine football has an even bigger impact on football schools than basketball does here.
I agree with you. But it's interesting how this is the exact argument for those concerned about diverting money away from the universities to pay student athletes more than they already get.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 18, 2020, 02:53:39 PM
I agree with you. But it's interesting how this is the exact argument for those concerned about diverting money away from the universities to pay student athletes more than they already get.
Further proves the value of the student athlete is far greater than simply a scholarship
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 18, 2020, 04:51:37 PM
Further proves the value of the student athlete is far greater than simply a scholarship
Chicken or the egg. What comes first. Plenty of semipro leagues to play in but these kids choose colleges with built in fan bases to show their wares and get a first class education. Can't get something for nothing.
It's not as black and white as you think.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 18, 2020, 05:15:19 PM
Chicken or the egg. What comes first. Plenty of semipro leagues to play in but these kids choose colleges with built in fan bases to show their wares and get a first class education. Can't get something for nothing.
It's not as black and white as you think.
Maybe not, but the work has turned and universities are terrified
Agreed. Universities should be terrified. Hell TAMU and others who work at Universities should be terrified. There is not an unlimited supply of money as some people think.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 12, 2020, 08:56:28 AM
We are taking about Nebraska
The "N" on their helmet stands for knowledge.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on August 17, 2020, 11:24:43 AM
Vogue,
I like posters with some perspective. I may not agree with you on everything but appreciate how your numerous lifetime experiences formed your thought processes and perspectives. Keep being you.
+1
It's easy enough to move on if you don't like it.
Essentially this is a call to gut the B1G and Pac-12.
Or, will Justin Fields (current tOSU QB) be the next Oklahoma QB to win the Heisman?
Kiffin: Allow Big Ten, Pac-12 players to transfer
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29696072/ole-miss-rebels-coach-lane-kiffin-wants-transfer-waiver-players-postponed-seasons
Ole Miss football coach Lane Kiffin says players whose conferences have decided to postpone fall sports should be free to transfer without penalty.
During an appearance on the SEC Network on Tuesday, Kiffin said it's a "shame" that players are unable to do so.
"Kids are having their schools or their conferences deciding to shut down, so they can't play, and a lot of them have a lot of money on the line with the next level, or they just want to play their last year," Kiffin said. "So it's really unfortunate that the NCAA is not allowing them to transfer and be eligible immediately. We're being told that won't even go into a waiver process, so I feel really bad for those kids. It's not their fault. Why can't they come play somewhere? That doesn't make any sense to me."
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 19, 2020, 04:08:51 PM
Essentially this is a call to gut the B1G and Pac-12.
Or, will Justin Fields (current tOSU QB) be the next Oklahoma QB to win the Heisman?
Kiffin: Allow Big Ten, Pac-12 players to transfer
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29696072/ole-miss-rebels-coach-lane-kiffin-wants-transfer-waiver-players-postponed-seasons
Ole Miss football coach Lane Kiffin says players whose conferences have decided to postpone fall sports should be free to transfer without penalty.
During an appearance on the SEC Network on Tuesday, Kiffin said it's a "shame" that players are unable to do so.
"Kids are having their schools or their conferences deciding to shut down, so they can't play, and a lot of them have a lot of money on the line with the next level, or they just want to play their last year," Kiffin said. "So it's really unfortunate that the NCAA is not allowing them to transfer and be eligible immediately. We're being told that won't even go into a waiver process, so I feel really bad for those kids. It's not their fault. Why can't they come play somewhere? That doesn't make any sense to me."
1. It's not happening. Just like the guy who claimed that various B10 schools were going to leave the conference this season wasn't happening.
2. Lane should worry about his own house.
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/ole-miss/2020/08/19/13-ole-miss-athletes-positive-covid-19-officially-outbreak/5610788002/
Of course Lane Kiffin wants open transfers, because it gives him (and a subset of other P5 coaches) immediate access to a huge pool high-quality players.
But I wonder what Lane's borderline starters and second-stringers think of his eagerness to loot tOSU, UM, et al....
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 19, 2020, 04:11:01 PM
1. It's not happening. Just like the guy who claimed that various B10 schools were going to leave the conference this season wasn't happening.
2. Lane should worry about his own house.
https://www.clarionledger.com/story/sports/college/ole-miss/2020/08/19/13-ole-miss-athletes-positive-covid-19-officially-outbreak/5610788002/
But doesn't Kiffin have a point? Justin Fields is screaming and starting online petitions to play this fall. Why should he, and all the other B1G and Pac-12 players, be punished?
If the B1G wants to cancel, that is their right. Shouldn't Fields also have the right to transfer now to a team that is playing thsi fall?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 19, 2020, 04:28:13 PM
But doesn't Kiffin have a point? Justin Fields is screaming and starting online petitions to play this fall. Why should he, and all the other B1G and Pac-12 players, be punished?
They are playing in the Spring.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 19, 2020, 04:29:27 PM
They are playing in the Spring.
Justin Fields won't be playing in the spring. Nor will just about any other player with NFL aspirations.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 19, 2020, 04:28:13 PM
But doesn't Kiffin have a point? Justin Fields is screaming and starting online petitions to play this fall. Why should he, and all the other B1G and Pac-12 players, be punished?
If the B1G wants to cancel, that is their right. Shouldn't Fields also have the right to transfer now to a team that is playing thsi fall?
I'm all for letting them transfer. It'll seem stupid after those leagues cancel their seasons as well but he should definitely go for it
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 19, 2020, 04:28:13 PM
But doesn't Kiffin have a point? Justin Fields is screaming and starting online petitions to play this fall. Why should he, and all the other B1G and Pac-12 players, be punished?
If the B1G wants to cancel, that is their right. Shouldn't Fields also have the right to transfer now to a team that is playing thsi fall?
So when the Big 12, SEC and ACC cancel their seasons, do the players who will be around after this year get to rescind their transfers and stay put? How would that work from an academic standpoint - bouncing from school to school during the semester in an attempt to play a season that will never be played?
Seems like allowing immediate transfers just fosters false hope. Just look at the COVID prevalence and positivity rates in Big 12, SEC and ACC country - it isn't if they will cancel; it's when.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 19, 2020, 04:52:02 PM
So when the Big 12, SEC and ACC cancel their seasons, do the players who will be around after this year get to rescind their transfers and stay put? How would that work from an academic standpoint - bouncing from school to school during the semester in an attempt to play a season that will never be played?
Seems like allowing immediate transfers just fosters false hope. Just look at the COVID prevalence and positivity rates in Big 12, SEC and ACC country - it isn't if they will cancel; it's when.
While I appreciate Justin Fields unwavering desire to play football, if there were any adults in the room at Ohio State, they'd be encouraging Justin to begin draft prep instead of chasing the dragon.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 19, 2020, 04:30:41 PM
Justin Fields won't be playing in the spring. Nor will just about any other player with NFL aspirations.
Oh. So that's their choice whether or not to play.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 19, 2020, 05:16:36 PM
Oh. So that's their choice whether or not to play.
Right, but it explains why players like Fields are still pushing for a fall season. Because they know even if there's a spring season - and, IMO, that's no more likely than a fall season - they won't be a part of it. It's going to the P5 version of JV football.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 19, 2020, 05:27:53 PM
Right, but it explains why players like Fields are still pushing for a fall season. Because they know even if there's a spring season - and, IMO, that's no more likely than a fall season - they won't be a part of it. It's going to the P5 version of JV football.
If the NCAA allowed players with one more year of eligibility to transfer between now and 9/1 I'd be fine with that.
This includes Wisconsin
Also looking to play with the stadiums 20% to 30% full.
Report: Despite Big Ten Postponement, Ohio State Still Trying to Create 10-Game Fall Schedule
Longtime college football writer Jeff Snook says Ohio State is leading the charge to convince several other schools in the league to play this fall. Read more.
https://www.si.com/.amp-ohiostate/college/ohiostate/football/ohio-state-still-exploring-playing-fall-season
I'll bet that when the B1G decided to not play this fall, they thought their action would set the tone for all of college football and everyone that decided to play would be called upon to explain themselves.
Instead it is the opposite, the B1G is still explaining why they are not playing.
Specifically.
* why is Iowa State (B12) playing but Iowa is not.
* why is ND (ACC) playing but Indiana and Purdue are not.
* why is Cincinnati playing but Ohio State is not.
* why are Temple and Pitt playing but Penn State is not.
Again. Iowa State, ND, Cincinnati, Temple and Pitt are not being asked to explain themselves as much as The B1G is constantly being asked to explain its decision.
The B1G still does not have a good answer which is why these stories of rebellion won't go away.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 19, 2020, 06:57:12 PM
I'll bet that when the B1G decided to not play this fall, they thought their action would set the tone for all of college football and everyone that decided to play would be called upon to explain themselves.
Instead it is the opposite, the B1G is still explaining why they are not playing.
Specifically.
* why is Iowa State (B12) playing but Iowa is not.
* why is ND (ACC) playing but Indiana and Purdue is not.
* why is Cincinnati playing but Ohio State is not.
* why is Temple and Pitt are playing but Penn State is not.
Again. Iowa State, ND, Cincinnati, Temple and Pitt are not being asked to explain themselves as much as The B1G is constantly being asked to explain its decision.
The B1G still does not have a good answer which is why these stories of rebellion won't go away.
Lucky for the Big Ten, the pandemic isn't going away
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 19, 2020, 06:57:12 PM
I'll bet that when the B1G decided to not play this fall, they thought their action would set the tone for all of college football and everyone that decided to play would be called upon to explain themselves.
Instead it is the opposite, the B1G is still explaining why they are not playing.
Specifically.
* why is Iowa State (B12) playing but Iowa is not.
* why is ND (ACC) playing but Indiana and Purdue are not.
* why is Cincinnati playing but Ohio State is not.
* why are Temple and Pitt playing but Penn State is not.
Again. Iowa State, ND, Cincinnati, Temple and Pitt are not being asked to explain themselves as much as The B1G is constantly being asked to explain its decision.
The B1G still does not have a good answer which is why these stories of rebellion won't go away.
None of them are playing yet.
We'll see if any of them do.
At least one of the schools you name (ND) already has had to shift from in-person to remote-only learning. That school also has decided not to return to practice for several days.
Oh, and the Big Ten commissioner said the decision on fall sports is final and will not be revisited: https://www.si.com/college/2020/08/20/big-ten-decision-no-fall-football-final-kevin-warren
Quote from: MU82 on August 19, 2020, 11:42:55 PM
Oh, and the Big Ten commissioner said the decision on fall sports is final and will not be revisited: https://www.si.com/college/2020/08/20/big-ten-decision-no-fall-football-final-kevin-warren
Yeah, but does he know about SirYacht?
Quote from: Pakuni on August 20, 2020, 07:07:42 AM
Yeah, but does he know about SirYacht?
Jeff Snook is a sportwriter that has written 14 books, including co-authoring Ken "Hawk" Harrelson's autobiography. He has written four books related to Ohio State football, including "What It Means To Be a Buckeye"
He lives in Ashland Ohio and is as plugged into Ohio State sports are any sports writer in the country.
Siryacht is a blogger about Ohio State sports and references Snook many times. (some think Snook is Sir Yacht's source).
---
But I get it, your role here is to merely troll.
Snook posted his info on his Facebook page (he is not on twitter).
BREAKING: OHIO STATE'S A.D. WORKING ON PLAN TO GET FIVE OTHER BIG TEN TEAMS TO PARTICIPATE IN 10-GAME SCHEDULE THIS FALL
BY JEFF SNOOK
No matter what has been stated publicly, Ohio State's hierarchy hasn't yet given up on playing football this fall.
Athletic Director Gene Smith, with the full support of school president-elect Kristina Johnson, has been working behind the scenes for the past six days to organize fellow Big Ten conference athletic directors in convincing at least five other university presidents that to move forward with a 10-game season to be played among six teams, a source familiar with the movement told me today.
In this proposed format, each team would play the other five Big Ten teams who are participating twice -- once at home and once on the road, beginning on either Sept. 26 or Oct. 3. The season would conclude by mid-December and there would no Big Ten title game in Indianapolis.
As of Tuesday night, I was told that Penn State President Eric Barron, Nebraska President Walter "Ted" Carter and Iowa President Bruce Harreld are on board with the new plan. The group hopes to convince two other universities, notably the University of Wisconsin and the University of Michigan, to join them.
"They really need to flip Wisconsin and Michigan to get to six schools and make this thing work," the source told me. "And they have only so much time to do it. They need to make progress and get it done in the next seven to 10 days."
Wisconsin Athletic Director Barry Alvarez, who coached the Badgers from 1990-2005, is a strong advocate for the plan but has yet to convince UW President Drew Peterson, the source said. Michigan Athletic Director Warde Manual, a former Wolverine player under Bo Schembechler, and coach Jim Harbaugh also want to compete this fall season, but school president Mark Schlissel has so far opposed their efforts. Schlissel, who has a medical degree, spoke in support of "player safety" after the Big Ten's announcement to cancel last week.
"This thing probably won't go anywhere unless certain Big Ten presidents – like those at Michigan and Wisconsin – feel the pressure from their alumni, fans and especially their major donors," the source said. "I understand that several seven- and eight-figure donors at Michigan are very unhappy with the Big Ten's decision and are putting pressure on their president to change his mind. And they may be threatening to withhold their money.
"If they can get six schools to participate, the remaining Big Ten schools then have the choice to either join them or opt out of the season."
Many athletic directors and college football coaches, including Smith and Day among others, have contended their players are safer from contracting Covid-19 within the confines, protocols and testing of their athletic facilities than they would be in the general population on campus or in their hometowns.
Several attempts to reach Smith Tuesday night for comment were unsuccessful.
Smith's efforts in this new plan also were helped somewhat when Ohio Governor Mike DeWine earlier Tuesday approved high school football to be played this fall, meaning a powerful duo of the state governor and the university president agree on the issue.
Sources Monday night said that the Big Ten presidents never voted on the issue before the conference adjourned its meeting last week and it was announced through new commissioner Kevin Warren that they were canceling the fall season. During the session among the presidents, Warren spoke often of preferring this season be pushed to the spring. And he repeated those thoughts on the Big Ten Network immediately following the announcement. The PAC 12 then cancelled its season within an hour.
The following morning, on Wednesday, I am told, Smith called Warren to see if there was any path for the Buckeyes to play this season and was shot down immediately. Smith then told the media later that day that the Ohio State athletic department would support the Big Ten's decision to begin preparing for a spring football season. But Smith had not given up on salvaging the fall season, going to work immediately to gauge other schools' interest in his plan.
Nebraska Athletic Director Bill Moos and coach Scott Frost also were very critical of the Big Ten's decision, leading Warren to publicly rebuke the Cornhuskers' leadership the following day. That day, the Big 12, ACC and SEC repeated their plans to continue with practices and its plans to play the fall season. The ACC plans to begin it schedule the weekend of Sept. 12, and the Big 12 and SEC are scheduled to kick off on Sept. 26.
In the past five days, parents of players at Iowa, Nebraska, Michigan, Penn State and Ohio State have been very vocal in their opposition to the Big Ten's cancellation. Several have organized and sent letters to Warren's office. Several others, led by Randy Wade, Ohio State cornerback Shaun Wade's father, also had planned to confront Warren Friday in Chicago. However, one source said Tuesday that Warren has yet to relocate to the Big Ten's Chicago offices from his home in Minneapolis, where he worked as the chief operating officer of the NFL's Minnesota Vikings until he was hired five months ago to replace longtime commissioner Jim Delany.
Johnson, who succeeded former President Michael Drake and "pushed hard" during last week's Big Ten presidential meeting to have teams continue practicing and then have a delayed start to the season from the original Sept. 3-5 kickoff the Big Ten had announced just six days earlier.
"Gene Smith, to his credit, created this grass-roots movement to get this done," the source said. "He was heartbroken for Coach (Ryan) Day and those players and he has the new president's full support."
Several sources said that Day has been almost inconsolable in private, knowing he had a team that was potentially as good as any in college football. The Buckeyes finished 13-1 in his first full season, losing 29-23 to Clemson in the College Football Playoff semifinal in Glendale, Ariz.
Critics have been many – including former Ohio State coach Urban Meyer to current Alabama coach Nick Saban -- of the Big Ten's latest plan to play football both in the spring and in the fall of 2021. Many of the league's top NFL-eligible talent, such as Ohio State quarterback Justin Fields and Wade, likely would opt out of a spring season so close to their upcoming NFL rookie seasons. And underclassmen would face the burden of playing two seasons within a 10- or 11-month period, depending when the Big Ten would decide to begin its spring season.
"No chance," Meyer said on the Big Ten Network last week. "You can't ask a player to play two seasons in a calendar year. When I first heard that, I said that. I don't see that happening when I hear that. The body, in my very strong opinion, is not made to play two seasons within a calendar year. That's 2,000 repetitive reps, and football is a physical, tough sport. So, I don't, really don't, see that happening."
Saban said Tuesday, "I think one of the real consequences of this is if you're a junior or a senior and you have an NFL grade, are you going to play in the spring? Or is that going to become sort of a JV season with a lot of these juniors and seniors opting out? ...
"I'm in no way judging what anybody's trying to do or not do. But our medical experts here thought that we could try to do this [and] create a safe environment and see if we can play. And I think that's what we're doing, and I think they've done a wonderful job of that."
There is no doubt that if the SEC, as well as the ACC and Big 12, do pull it off and play this season – and the Big Ten does not – there will be long-lasting ramifications for the Big Ten.
"That's the Big Ten's worst nightmare," the source said. "And Gene Smith is very smart, smart enough to realize just how bad it would be in the long run."
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 20, 2020, 07:25:59 AM
Snook posted his info on his Facebook page (he is not on twitter).
BREAKING: OHIO STATE'S A.D. WORKING ON PLAN TO GET FIVE OTHER BIG TEN TEAMS TO PARTICIPATE IN 10-GAME SCHEDULE THIS FALL
Interesting article. Thanks for posting.
We'll see if it happens.
We'll see if any college football team plays a single game.
Although I'm not big on experimenting with human lives, I admit it all will be fascinating to observe.
Quote from: MU82 on August 19, 2020, 11:42:55 PM
None of them are playing yet.
We'll see if any of them do.
At least one of the schools you name (ND) already has had to shift from in-person to remote-only learning. That school also has decided not to return to practice for several days.
Oh, and the Big Ten commissioner said the decision on fall sports is final and will not be revisited: https://www.si.com/college/2020/08/20/big-ten-decision-no-fall-football-final-kevin-warren
Two things can be right at once.
Kevin Warren is correct that the "official" B1G position is this is settled and their will be no football this fall.
And Snook can be right (post immediately above) that Geno Smith (AD of Ohio State) is talking to Barry Alvarez (AD of Wisconsin) along with Nebraska, Iowa, Michigan and Penn State about forming a six team, 10 game schedule for this fall.
Then Smith will dare Warren and the B1G to kick these six schools out of the conference for going around them.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 20, 2020, 07:22:25 AM
Jeff Snook is a sportwriter that has written 14 books, including co-authoring Ken "Hawk" Harrelson's autobiography. He has written four books related to Ohio State football, including "What It Means To Be a Buckeye"
He lives in Ashland Ohio and is as plugged into Ohio State sports are any sports writer in the country.
Siryacht is a blogger about Ohio State sports and references Snook many times. (some think Snook is Sir Yacht's source).
---
But I get it, your role here is to merely troll.
Yes, Heisey,
I'm the troll.
I guess we'll see in September.
So the B10 formally announces no football, then threatens to kick Nebraska out of the conference if they play elsewhere. Now half the conference is looking to create a 'mini schedule' and play anyway?
If this occurs, the conference will forever lose all credibility and authority when it makes a 'decision' in the future. Everyone - from players, to coaches, to ADs, to fans - will view 'final decisions' as simply the opening offer in a bargaining process....
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 20, 2020, 07:59:47 AM
So the B10 formally announces no football, then threatens to kick Nebraska out of the conference if they play elsewhere. Now half the conference is looking to create a 'mini schedule' and play anyway?
If this occurs, the conference will forever lose all credibility and authority when it makes a 'decision' in the future. Everyone - from players, to coaches, to ADs, to fans - will view 'final decisions' as simply the opening offer in a bargaining process....
Lawyers are lining up at those campuses for the lawsuits.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 20, 2020, 07:59:47 AM
So the B10 formally announces no football, then threatens to kick Nebraska out of the conference if they play elsewhere. Now half the conference is looking to create a 'mini schedule' and play anyway?
If this occurs, the conference will forever lose all credibility and authority when it makes a 'decision' in the future. Everyone - from players, to coaches, to ADs, to fans - will view 'final decisions' as simply the opening offer in a bargaining process....
Like I noted above, I'm sure the Big Ten thought that once they made the decision they were setting the standard for everybody. Instead the decision is tearing the conference apart.
Maybe at the end of the day there is no fall play. But, right now, all is not well in the land of the Big Ten.
The big mistake Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren did was to "just announce" all the university president were for canceling the season. He never providing a formal vote result with comments from the presidents explaining their decision.
It gives the impression that there wasn't unity for this decision and he's trying to cover for them.
That leaves the door open for the ADs like Gino Smith and Barry Alverez to try and overturn it.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 20, 2020, 10:40:58 AM
Like I noted above, I'm sure the Big Ten thought that once they made the decision they were setting the standard for everybody. Instead the decision is tearing the conference apart.
Maybe at the end of the day there is no fall play. But, right now, all is not well in the land of the Big Ten.
Yeah, that's not happening.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 20, 2020, 11:56:33 AM
Yeah, that's not happening.
You're correct that it may not happen. We'll see.
But Geno Smith, Barry Alverez and four other schools are trying to make it happen.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 20, 2020, 02:29:14 PM
You're correct that it may not happen. We'll see.
But Geno Smith, Barry Alverez and four other schools are trying to make it happen.
According to a guy who once wrote a biography on Hawk Harrelson.
It's not happening.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 20, 2020, 03:01:36 PM
According to a guy who once wrote a biography on Hawk Harrelson.
It's not happening.
Is that your argument ... ad homeniem attack becuase you disagree with him?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 20, 2020, 04:28:25 PM
Is that your argument ... ad homeniem attack becuase you disagree with him?
How is it an attack? That is literally what he did.
I hope tectonic change does come in some form.
The ADs/universities likely want to play because this is another financial bubble/too big to fail situation. There will be catastrophic outcomes for loss of income from both ticket sales and tv rights.
The kids wanna play because it has influence on their future career in the NFL.
I'm also sure there's some University administrators worried about liability lawsuits.
Let's hope everyone wisens up and avoids these financial pitfalls in the future.
Also, I thought tectonic change was coming when NCAA basketball was in the crosshairs of the FBI? What happened to that?
Or the tectonic change of athletes being able to profit off their likeness.
As I said early in this thread, right now this is tectonic change du jour.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 20, 2020, 04:30:40 PM
How is it an attack? That is literally what he did.
You chose to note he was Hawk Harrelson co-author on this autobiography thinking it would dismiss his authority on the subject.
You did not note he is also the author of four books on Ohio State football, including one titled "how to be a Buckeye." Or that he lives in Ohio and is generally known as the sports reporter most plug into Ohio State football.
So, yeah you attacked him simply because you did not like his reporting.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 20, 2020, 07:05:04 PM
You chose to note he was Hawk Harrelson co-author on this autobiography thinking it would dismiss his authority on the subject.
You did not note he is also the author of four books on Ohio State football, including one titled "how to be a Buckeye." Or that he lives in Ohio and is generally known as the sports reporter most plug into Ohio State football.
So, yeah you attacked him simply because you did not like his reporting.
Really? He's the most plugged into OSU football? Lol.
Yeah it's not happening.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on August 20, 2020, 08:01:35 AM
Lawyers are lining up at those campuses for the lawsuits.
Yep, book it
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 20, 2020, 08:56:22 PM
Really? He's the most plugged into OSU football? Lol.
Yeah it's not happening.
Again, you maybe correct in that there will be no fall football season. You were also dead sure the NCAA tournament was not going to be canceled last March.
The larger point is they are trying away from the official conference channels to put together a fall season. If they are successful it could represent a big fracturing of the conference?
How? How about it would be a catalyst of unequal shares of BTN money. The six marquee programs trying to play this fall (OSU, UM, PSU, NEB, UW, and Iowa) will want a bigger share than the rest. Because they conclude they are the B1G and the rest are pretenders.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 01:19:31 AM
Again, you maybe correct in that there will be no fall football season. You were also dead sure the NCAA tournament was not going to be canceled last March.
The larger point is they are trying away from the official conference channels to put together a fall season. If they are successful it could represent a big fracturing of the conference?
How? How about it would be a catalyst of unequal shares of BTN money. The six marquee programs trying to play this fall (OSU, UM, PSU, NEB, UW, and Iowa) will want a bigger share than the rest. Because they conclude they are the B1G and the rest are pretenders.
UM is currently the one holding everyone up.
And there will be no 'fracturing' of the B1G. Stop making stupid crap up.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 01:19:31 AM
Again, you maybe correct in that there will be no fall football season. You were also dead sure the NCAA tournament was not going to be canceled last March.
Whoa. What? When did I say that?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 21, 2020, 06:20:55 AM
UM is currently the one holding everyone up.
And there will be no 'fracturing' of the B1G. Stop making stupid crap up.
The conference cancels the fall football season. Multiple schools are looking to defy decision and are TRYING to set up their own fall schedule.
This sure sounds like a fracturing of the conference (again, if it happens).
The only person making crap up are those that are trying to say nothing is happening here.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 07:15:58 AMThe only person making crap up are those that are trying to say nothing is happening here.
Well, unless you can show where Sultan said he was "dead sure the NCAA tournament was not going to be canceled last March," you
literally just made some crap up.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 19, 2020, 04:52:02 PM
So when the Big 12, SEC and ACC cancel their seasons, do the players who will be around after this year get to rescind their transfers and stay put? How would that work from an academic standpoint - bouncing from school to school during the semester in an attempt to play a season that will never be played?
Seems like allowing immediate transfers just fosters false hope. Just look at the COVID prevalence and positivity rates in Big 12, SEC and ACC country - it isn't if they will cancel; it's when.
The players transferring don't care about school. I wish scoop would really stop with that charade.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2020, 07:13:25 AM
Whoa. What? When did I say that?
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 07, 2020, 04:13:52 PM
No the NCAA season isn't going to end its season. But the way things are going they may be paid in front of empty gyms.
Five days later everything was canceled.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 07:15:58 AM
The conference cancels the fall football season. Multiple schools are looking to defy decision and are TRYING to set up their own fall schedule.
This sure sounds like a fracturing of the conference (again, if it happens).
The only person making crap up are those that are trying to say nothing is happening here.
You're using a ton of qualifiers, taking a large leap in logic, and coming up with whatever conclusion you want.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 07:35:16 AM
Five days later everything was canceled.
Well OK. I don't recall saying that but I clearly did. Oh well, a lot of bad predictions back then.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 21, 2020, 07:35:34 AM
You're using a ton of qualifiers, taking a large leap in logic, and coming up with whatever conclusion you want.
The beauty of something like this is it can never be proven wrong. No matter how many denials, no matter how weak or non-existent the evidence, no matter whether no hint of this ever comes to fruition, no matter how asinine the suggestion, no matter how logistically improbable, ... you can never prove that there weren't secret discussions among a cabal of ADs going rogue.
Scoop's Clay Travis wannabe knows this.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2020, 07:52:50 AM
Well OK. I don't recall saying that but I clearly did. Oh well, a lot of bad predictions back then.
It was a post in response to something I wrote which is why I remembered it.
I would not know anything about bad predictions :)
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 21, 2020, 07:35:34 AM
You're using a ton of qualifiers, taking a large leap in logic, and coming up with whatever conclusion you want.
I had those same qualifiers in the post where you told me to stop making up crap.
Interesting how this thread went from Jeff Snook facebook post about the effort to have a fall season, to Jeff Snook is Hawk Harrelson's autobiograpgher suggesting he is unqualified to make this opinion, to I'm the one making up crap, to whatever that post Pakuni is trying to say.
Snook is far more credible on this subject. I have no doubt what he says is true. They are trying. Reasonable to say it will not work. But if they pull it off, it will be an earthquake for the B1G.
How about we sit back and watch and sees what happens.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 08:13:14 AM
I had those same qualifiers in the post where you told me to stop making up crap.
Interesting how this thread went from Jeff Snook facebook post about the effort to have a fall season, to Jeff Snook is Hawk Harrelson's autobiograpgher suggesting he is unqualified to make this opinion, to I'm the one making up crap, to whatever that post Pakuni is trying to say.
Snook is far more credible on this subject. I have no doubt what he says is true. They are trying. Reasonable to say it will not work. But if they pull it off, it will be an earthquake for the B1G.
How about we sit back and watch and sees what happens.
"Let's just forget the whole thing since I am doing a poor job of backing up my claims"
Sure thing.
Moving on ...
Let's say the B1G does not play this fall. Then they have this problem.
Big Ten could lose up to $1B in revenue after canceling fall football
https://nypost.com/2020/08/12/big-ten-could-lose-up-to-1b-in-revenue-with-no-fall-football/
Canceling college football season for the safety of student-athletes during the COVID-19 pandemic will cost Big Ten athletic departments more than $275 million in ticket sales and could reach $1 billion in total lost revenue, according to NCAA fiscal reports obtained by The Post.
At one end, Rutgers faces a vanishing $49 million, while cash-cow Ohio State's would be out $104 million and include a league-high $50 million in lost tickets alone. It's no wonder the Big Ten and like-minded Pac-12 are hoping to move football season to the spring rather than call it off.
----
So how do the Universities deal with this loss of revenue? Do they cut academic programs? Are state legislatures willing to pony up more money to cover it? Do they cut their athletic programs?
This is a big number. Cutting cross country and women's tennis is not going to fill this hole. Overpaid strength coaches and coordinators are going to have to go. Coaches might have to fly commerical to see recruits.
And if you cut athletics, you risk diminishing the B1G stature in sports, big time recruits will go to the programs that were not cut and have more resources (which is why their is an arms race in college facilities).
I think this is exactly what ADs are telling their Presidents ... (in a nice diplomatic way) let us play football or be prepared to close chemistry labs and eliminate liberal art programs.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 21, 2020, 08:19:07 AM
"Let's just forget the whole thing since I am doing a poor job of backing up my claims"
Sure thing.
I provided Jeff Snook's post so please detail the claim you think I'm not backing up?
Better yet actually read the thread before you comment.
According to the USA Today article below, the parents' protest in support of a football season is supposed to occur today outside Big Ten HQ.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2020/08/20/big-ten-parents-set-protest-unthinkable-college-football/5614843002/
--------------
It will be interesting to see how large a crowd actually shows up, so we can see if it really is a groundswell of demand by parents to let their kids play, or just a very loud minority.
From what I understand, the Big Ten is still working virtually so the protest will be interesting.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 21, 2020, 08:31:45 AM
According to the USA Today article below, the parents' protest in support of a football season is supposed to occur today outside Big Ten HQ.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/brennan/2020/08/20/big-ten-parents-set-protest-unthinkable-college-football/5614843002/
--------------
It will be interesting to see how large a crowd actually shows up, so we can see if it really is a groundswell of demand by parents to let their kids play, or just a very loud minority.
All true ... what size crowd would be considered a ground swell?
If 100 parents and fans (presumably not of abundant means) that took the day off and traveled to Chicago protest. is that a large crowd?
If a 1,000 show up is that a disappointing small crowd?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 08:38:24 AM
All true ... what size crowd would be considered a ground swell?
If 100 parents and fans (presumably not of abundant means) that took the day off and traveled to Chicago protest. is that a large crowd?
If a 1,000 show up is that a disappointing small crowd?
There obviously isn't an exact answer to the 'large vs small' question. But someone at the B10 knows how many scholarship football players there are, so technically they could easily calculate a minority vs a majority.
But on the question of 'large' vs 'small' (and given that a 'majority' of parents of scholarship FB players would probably mean about 2000-3000 moms and dads), I'd consider it pretty significant of if maybe 300-400
parents show up. And no - I would not count fans who have no vested interest in the long-term health of the players.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 08:26:11 AM
I provided Jeff Snook's post so please detail the claim you think I'm not backing up?
Better yet actually read the thread before you comment.
You specifically said that sounds the B1G was fracturing. That wasn't mentioned in the article that quoted Snook.
It was a conclusion you jumped to on your own.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 21, 2020, 08:48:43 AM
There obviously isn't an exact answer to the 'large vs small' question. But someone at the B10 knows how many scholarship football players there are, so technically they could easily calculate a minority vs a majority.
But on the question of 'large' vs 'small' (and given that a 'majority' of parents of scholarship FB players would probably mean about 2000-3000 moms and dads), I'd consider it pretty significant of if maybe 300-400 parents show up. And no - I would not count fans who have no vested interest in the long-term health of the players.
I'm going to go with "small."
https://twitter.com/ESPNRittenberg/status/1296800496217477120?s=20
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2020, 09:32:02 AM
I'm going to go with "small."
https://twitter.com/ESPNRittenberg/status/1296800496217477120?s=20
LOL.
Not exactly 'tectonic,' eh?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 07:35:16 AM
Five days later everything was canceled.
Thank you for providing this.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on August 21, 2020, 09:07:34 AM
You specifically said that sounds the B1G was fracturing. That wasn't mentioned in the article that quoted Snook.
It was a conclusion you jumped to on your own.
That is exactly correct ... my opinion is six teams in the B1G defying the conference decision and trying to set up their own schedule indeed represents a fracturing of the conference.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 20, 2020, 04:30:40 PM
How is it an attack? That is literally what he did.
Using facts is considered an attack by about 37% of the country these days.
Psst...it's all about the TV and Media contracts. No school is walking away from that to play in empty stadiums
Note that the lawyers are getting involved and Justin Fields now has representation. If they gets the waivers, the B1G will be gutted.
(the brown highlighted part is for Fluffy and Hards ... don't call it a fracturing!!)
Well known player advocate attorney Tom Mars files Freedom of Information Act request with Big Ten schools
https://buckeyeswire.usatoday.com/2020/08/20/tom-mars-freedom-of-information-request-big-ten-football-buckeyes/
Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren has finally spoken after over a week of silence. As the league continued to crack at the foundations with player, parent, and administrator concerns over the lack of transparency and plan surrounding the postponement of the fall football season in 2020, we waited for reaction.
Warren finally released an open letter to the Big Ten community reiterating the stance to postpone the season to the spring, and a so-called final verdict that it will not be revisited.
That has now resulted in some action well known collegiate player advocate Tom Mars. We reported earlier this week on a piece from the Columbus Dispatch that showed Mars beginning to weigh in on the situation, and even speaking on behalf of some that were questioning how the decision was made.
Mars, who represented several players, including Justin Fields, in gaining waivers for immediate transfer eligibility, had previously said that getting lawyers involved in the process was not his desire. However, you had a feeling if this thing continued to gain momentum without Big Ten cooperation that things could change.
Oh my gosh! A lawyer has filed a FOIA request? Clearly the Big Ten is falling apart!!!
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2020, 11:40:34 AM
Oh my gosh! A lawyer has filed a FOIA request? Clearly the Big Ten is falling apart!!!
Will you think the same if/when their top 40 or so players transfer out before Labor Day
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 11:43:02 AM
Will you think the same if/when their top 40 or so players transfer out before Labor Day
I have said that I am fine with the NCAA granting immediately eligible waivers for players with one year eligibility remaining...so yeah.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 11:43:02 AM
Will you think the same if/when their top 40 or so players transfer out before Labor Day
Most of those top players weren't going to play in the Big 10 anymore, regardless. You think Justin Fields, Shaun Wade and Michah Parsons are sticking around for a spring season?
And where are they going to go en masse? Most ACC, Big 12 and SEC programs already are up against their scholarship limits.
We're talking about a handful of players at most here. Hardly a gutting.
And for the players who can leave, good for them.
Don't let the door smack ya on the a$$ on the way out, eh?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 20, 2020, 07:05:04 PM
You chose to note he was Hawk Harrelson co-author on this autobiography thinking it would dismiss his authority on the subject.
You did not note he is also the author of four books on Ohio State football, including one titled "how to be a Buckeye." Or that he lives in Ohio and is generally known as the sports reporter most plug into Ohio State football.
So, yeah you attacked him simply because you did not like his reporting.
there's a difference in being "plugged into OSU football" in terms of recruiting and lineups and being plugged into what the President, Board, and AD are discussing.
Also, I am not sure what standing these parents (or players) have to sue. They are still receiving the benefit of their scholarship.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 21, 2020, 01:07:31 PM
Also, I am not sure what standing these parents (or players) have to sue. They are still receiving the benefit of their scholarship.
Good point. I am assuming the basic deal reads that (1) player agrees to participate in sport; and (2) university agrees to provide a scholarship.
If the school provides the scholarship even though no football is being played, I struggle to see what the players can sue over. The "opportunity to play" is never guaranteed, and even where a player claims (or implies) he was 'guaranteed' playing time, his recourse is to transfer, not to sue.
I still have serious doubts that there will be a single D1 college football game played this year. However ...
If there is a season, and if athletes want to transfer from a league that isn't playing to one that is, and if the students meet all the academic requirements ... more power to the athlete-students, and I hope they have great seasons.
They and their new teammates should get compensated for their NIL, too.
If all of it results in the B14 being permanently damaged, oh well. Change is often messy. I mean, just a few years ago, the Big East went through a "tectonic change" when one school after another left for greener pastures. The conference and its member institutions survived, even thrived.
Paraphrasing a great philosopher: "They are leaving. That's true. It is what it is."
Quote from: MU82 on August 21, 2020, 03:01:01 PM
I still have serious doubts that there will be a single D1 college football game played this year. However ...
If there is a season, and if athletes want to transfer from a league that isn't playing to one that is, and if the students meet all the academic requirements ... more power to the athlete-students, and I hope they have great seasons.
They and their new teammates should get compensated for their NIL, too.
If all of it results in the B14 being permanently damaged, oh well. Change is often messy. I mean, just a few years ago, the Big East went through a "tectonic change" when one school after another left for greener pastures. The conference and its member institutions survived, even thrived.
Paraphrasing a great philosopher: "They are leaving. That's true. It is what it is."
Agreed.
Regarding the academic eligibility comment - I LOL'd until I remembered that Duke is in the ACC and Vanderbilt is in the SEC. But other than that.... ;D
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 21, 2020, 03:26:33 PM
Agreed.
Regarding the academic eligibility comment - I LOL'd until I remembered that Duke is in the ACC and Vanderbilt is in the SEC. But other than that.... ;D
He's referring to transfer eligibility, where players have to meet percentage towards degree requirements. Schools like Vandy, Duke, Syracuse and Wake, being private, often have requirements not offered at state schools. Those classes being incomplete bring PTD down. A student may be 40% complete with his or her degree at Ohio State but may only be 30% complete upon transfer to Wake.
will there be a 21-22 season???will there be fans??????????
In da yeer 2525, will man still bee alive, hey,?
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 21, 2020, 12:54:18 PM
there's a difference in being "plugged into OSU football" in terms of recruiting and lineups and being plugged into what the President, Board, and AD are discussing.
So you think Snook is an unreliable source? Why?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on August 21, 2020, 06:34:55 PM
In da yeer 2525, will man still bee alive, hey,?
In the year 3535, will tectonic change finally arrive?
In the year 4545, will Vander do a slap of five?
In the year 5555, will Wojo's powerpoint still jive?
In the year 6565, will Ners be dunkin' to cap a drive?
In the year 7510, will Ditka rule da world, my friend?
In the year 8510, will chicos' Scoopcation end?
In the year 9595, will Apple stock be a billion five?
Now it's been 10,000 years ... Deane has chugged 10 million beers ... TC cashes in on Wade after all these years ... For that's all he ever knew.
But if you're bored at night ... you can still go to Scoop for a good fight ... Derrick or Magic Dawson, hey? ... maybe it's only yesterday ...
Quote from: Pakuni on August 21, 2020, 12:10:48 PM
Most of those top players weren't going to play in the Big 10 anymore, regardless. You think Justin Fields, Shaun Wade and Michah Parsons are sticking around for a spring season?
And where are they going to go en masse? Most ACC, Big 12 and SEC programs already are up against their scholarship limits.
We're talking about a handful of players at most here. Hardly a gutting.
And for the players who can leave, good for them.
Agree that the top players are not playing in the spring.
Remember that the schools that are not playing, spring sports five months ago, and B1G and PAC-12 football this fall, are allowed the expand their rosters and give one more year of eligibility.
So, if waivers are granted and immediate transfers are granted, I would not be surprised if they allow rosters to expand.
If they do not expand rosters, then some redshirted marginal player is losing their scholarship literally hours before classes begin to make room for a coveted player from a conference that is not playing.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 06:39:57 PM
So you think Snook is an unreliable source? Why?
Read some of his coverage of the Zach Smith saga.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 21, 2020, 11:51:57 PM
Agree that the top players are not playing in the spring.
Remember that the schools that are not playing, spring sports five months ago, and B1G and PAC-12 football this fall, are allowed the expand their rosters and give one more year of eligibility.
So, if waivers are granted and immediate transfers are granted, I would not be surprised if they allow rosters to expand.
If they do not expand rosters, then some redshirted marginal player is losing their scholarship literally hours before classes begin to make room for a coveted player from a conference that is not playing.
I could see how roster size might be an issue...but for marginal
scholarship players, wouldn't the key would be increasing
scholarship limit to keep them from being displaced at the last minute?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 22, 2020, 08:54:10 AM
I could see how roster size might be an issue...but for marginal scholarship players, wouldn't the key would be increasing scholarship limit to keep them from being displaced at the last minute?
I could see keeping the active players at 13 and then allowing an additional 2 players who must be be red-shirt. That would give a 15 player limit. 13 players normally do not play in games, so adding active players beyond that does not make much sense. Also, with a decrease in revenue, how many teams will want extra scholarships?
I think he is right ... this is more than one random football season played in the fall or spring.
Mark Sanchez Implies Big Ten, Pac-12 Cancelling Football About More Than Just COVID-19 Safety
https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/mark-sanchez-big-ten-pac-12-covid-safety-money
"I'm not minimizing the effects of COVID or myocarditis, I'm not a doctor and I'm not a scientist," Sanchez said. "This is a very serious virus, and there are medical complications associated with it and these kids are potentially at risk. College football, the way I've experienced and the way we watch it and analyze it is over. These are new types of players who have more information and realize the leverage they have.
"This is now going to become a money issue, a compensation issue. It is bigger, in some ways, than just the virus. I'm not minimizing the effect of the virus. I'm saying that the Big Ten and the Pac-12 needed time to regroup and figure out how they're going to come back, rebut some of these demands by these players and parents about how these players are going to be protected. And more importantly, compensated."
Quote from: Pakuni on August 22, 2020, 07:37:15 AM
Read some of his coverage of the Zach Smith saga.
I get it , you have personally decided that Ohio State is not trying to resurrect a fall season, so you troll and call the reporter that broke the story unreliable and a liar merely because he contradicts your belief. I've seen this before, we all have.
He's more for you. Go fire up your little google machine in your parents basement to see if they kicked some cats or watched porn so you can call him a liars too.
(To be clear, I think it is pretty credible that ADs at schools like Ohio State and Wisconsin are trying to put together a fall season. Yes, they might not succeed. But if they do, it changes a lot of things about college sports. Hence the title of this thread, a tectonic change coming to college sports)
————-
Briggs: What if Ohio State football left the Big Ten?
https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/ohio-state/2020/08/22/briggs-what-if-ohio-state-football-left-the-big-ten/stories/20200822075
All 14 Big Ten athletic directors wanted to play football in the fall
https://www.si.com/college/cal/news/all-14-big-ten-athletic-directors-wanted-to-play-football-in-the-fall-Fr2yvUxC2UCM4ZyNTWT05A
So Warren admitted what I have posted here ... he thought once the mighty Big Ten had spoken, they would be praised and all conferences would fall behind them.
Instead he created chaos and the movement to paying athletes is getting a catalyst.
Speaking of paying athletes... the other thread about the Big East bubble, doesn't the entire idea of sequestering UNPAID COLLEGE STUDENTS so they can make institutions hundreds of millions strike anyone as "slimy?" Where's Chicos to tell us how valuable a college scholarship is ... and how are they supposed to pursue this degree locked in an Omaha hotel for months?
——
https://thespun.com/college-football/kevin-warren-botched-big-ten-football-decision
Friday, Teddy Greenstein of The Chicago Tribune joined Paul Finebaum on his radio show to share some insight into how [B1G commissioner Kevin] Warren is viewing his league's decision. Greenstein told Finebaum that Warren essentially admitted to him that he "botched" the situation.
Here's what Greenstein had to say:
"Well there's definitely not a good reason because it was completely mishandled – it was botched. Kevin and I talked the other day and he agreed. He believes that when he came out with that decision, on August 11th, it was not going to be as heavily scrutinized as it was because, as he says, it was a decision that – I mean they're giving up money, they're not doing it for the money because they're giving up hundreds of millions of dollars. So he thought the fact that they were doing it for the health, safety and wellbeing of the athletes was going to be enough.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 23, 2020, 12:42:38 AM
I get it , you have personally decided that Ohio State is not trying to resurrect a fall season, so you troll and call the reporter that broke the story unreliable and a liar merely because he contradicts your belief. I've seen this before, we all have.
He's more for you. Go fire up your little google machine in your parents basement to see if they kicked some cats or watched porn so you can call him a liars too.
(To be clear, I think it is pretty credible that ADs at schools like Ohio State and Wisconsin are trying to put together a fall season. Yes, they might not succeed. But if they do, it changes a lot of things about college sports. Hence the title of this thread, a tectonic change coming to college sports)
————-
Briggs: What if Ohio State football left the Big Ten?
https://www.toledoblade.com/sports/ohio-state/2020/08/22/briggs-what-if-ohio-state-football-left-the-big-ten/stories/20200822075
All 14 Big Ten athletic directors wanted to play football in the fall
https://www.si.com/college/cal/news/all-14-big-ten-athletic-directors-wanted-to-play-football-in-the-fall-Fr2yvUxC2UCM4ZyNTWT05A
No there isn't credible evidence this is happening. The two articles you post above don't provide anything of the sort. In fact the first basically said its not happening.
The parent protest in Chicago was largely ignored.
Clearly Warren and the B10 handled the messaging wrong. But that doesn't mean fall football is happening.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 23, 2020, 12:42:38 AM
I get it , you have personally decided that Ohio State is not trying to resurrect a fall season, so you troll and call the reporter that broke the story unreliable and a liar merely because he contradicts your belief. I've seen this before, we all have.
He's more for you. Go fire up your little google machine in your parents basement to see if they kicked some cats or watched porn so you can call him a liars too.
(To be clear, I think it is pretty credible that ADs at schools like Ohio State and Wisconsin are trying to put together a fall season. Yes, they might not succeed. But if they do, it changes a lot of things about college sports. Hence the title of this thread, a tectonic change coming to college sports)
Oh, Heisey, this sadly is par for the course for you. You post something outlandish and false because you need attention and want to be Scoop's most scorching hot take artist, then you slowly walk it back, shift the goalposts and personally attack those who point out where you're wrong, while all the while claiming you were right all along.
Hence, "Nebraska, Iowa, Ohio State and Penn State are making plans to leave the Big 10!" becomes "The Big 10 is working to reverse their decision to cancel the fall season!" becomes "A cabal of six ADs are holding super-secret meetings to resurrect a fall season!" becomes "ADs really wanted to play football before the decision to cancel ... see, I was right from the start."
Whatever floats your boat, man.
As for Jeff Snook, I never called him anything. You asked about his reliability as a source. I suggested you read his coverage of the Zack Smith situation and decide for yourself.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 23, 2020, 12:25:28 AM
"This is now going to become a money issue, a compensation issue. It is bigger, in some ways, than just the virus. I'm not minimizing the effect of the virus. I'm saying that the Big Ten and the Pac-12 needed time to regroup and figure out how they're going to come back, rebut some of these demands by these players and parents about how these players are going to be protected. And more importantly, compensated."
Good!
Several of us have been talking for more than a year now about this "tectonic change" being inevitable. The all-athletes-need-is-a-scholarship-so-eff-'em crowd here on Scoop whines about it constantly, but the rest of us say, "Whine if you want to, but the change is coming ... and you won't be able to do a thing about it."
That Mark Sanchez uses the coronavirus as a backdrop to say what we've been saying for a year+ ... sure, it's always nice to hear others say it, too. But we didn't need ito hear it from Mark Sanchez to know it's logical, reasonable, justified and inevitable.
Good for these student-athletes taking charge and trying to affect the tectonic change we all know is coming.
As for the rest of it -- the Big 14 revolting to do whatever -- we'll see.
This is hilarious (and accurate):
https://twitter.com/ChattTennSports/status/1295543799654096896
Quote from: warriorchick on August 23, 2020, 08:13:29 AM
This is hilarious (and accurate):
https://twitter.com/ChattTennSports/status/1295543799654096896
The best part was "I have to check with Texas first but assuming that goes okay, I'm in"
A lot of people around here sound like they should have gone to a big time football university.
The Division III model is no one year scholarships. Based on need, the grant in aid is for four years whether or not the student athelete even plays. Education is the first order of business. Playing football is for the love of the game. Yes, there are kids who love to play the game.
No loss of schlorship/grant for any reason except misbehavior or academic reasons.
Some of the 4 year grants are worth $25,000 a year, $100,000, which is real money in my book and in most cases a good education with a worthwhile diploma.
Which makes big time college football players, in my view, a slave system, a real con job.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 23, 2020, 09:30:03 AM
A lot of people around here sound like they should have gone to a big time football university.
The Division III model is no one year scholarships. Based on need, the grant in aid is for four years whether or not the student athelete even plays. Education is the first order of business. Playing football is for the love of the game. Yes, there are kids who love to play the game.
No loss of schlorship/grant for any reason except misbehavior or academic reasons.
Some of the 4 year grants are worth $25,000 a year, $100,000, which is real money in my book and in most cases a good education with a worthwhile diploma.
Which makes big time college football players, in my view, a slave system, a real con job.
There are no D3 athletic grants-in-aid. They only give out academic scholarships and financial aid awards. So yeah, the scholarship is four years because it isn't tied to football participation.
Yes. "Big time college football players" are part of a "slave system" that provides them with a free education in return for playing a sport. Do you realize how dumb that sounds?
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on August 23, 2020, 09:35:12 AM
There are no D3 athletic grants-in-aid. They only give out academic scholarships and financial aid awards. So yeah, the scholarship is four years because it isn't tied to football participation.
Yes. "Big time college football players" are part of a "slave system" that provides them with a free education in return for playing a sport. Do you realize how dumb that sounds?
Did I say athletic grants in aid?
The free education in Big time C.F. is a one year at a time deal. If you get injured, are having trouble with course work, recruted over, or some coach doesn't like you, your gone. Thanks for my free education.
Tectonic is an understatement.
Let's face it, most of the players are like the old taxi squad in the NFL.
Quote from: warriorchick on August 23, 2020, 08:13:29 AM
This is hilarious (and accurate):
https://twitter.com/ChattTennSports/status/1295543799654096896
That was wonderful. Thanks for posting.
Quote from: vogue65 on August 23, 2020, 09:30:03 AM
Which makes big time college football players, in my view, a slave system, a real con job.
Nice job diminishing actual slavery and the people who suffered from it.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 23, 2020, 12:56:44 PM
Nice job diminishing actual slavery and the people who suffered from it.
True. It is less slavery than it is indentured servitude.
Quote from: MU82 on August 23, 2020, 01:32:53 PM
True. It is less slavery than it is indentured servitude.
Possibly, but also a life 99% of college students would choose.
Quote from: MU82 on August 23, 2020, 01:32:53 PM
True. It is less slavery than it is indentured servitude.
If that's your attitude, why do you watch, follow, and support it?
But we all know, you're one of the high minded and wonderful people on this board. Anybody can just ask you if they doubt that for a moment.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on August 23, 2020, 02:28:59 PM
If that's your attitude, why do you watch, follow, and support it?
But we all know, you're one of the high minded and wonderful people on this board. Anybody can just ask you if they doubt that for a moment.
You can support your alma mater and still recognize the inequalities of the system
Quote from: MU82 on August 23, 2020, 01:32:53 PM
True. It is less slavery than it is indentured servitude.
I won't dispute that college sports is messed up, but that analogy is still quite a ways off. Most indentured servants in the US got passage to America, room and board, and nothing more. The 'room and board' was almost certainly $hit compared to the luxurious surroundings and nutritious food of a high-D1 athletic dorm. And I'd bet most indentured servants would have given their left nut for an education that would have given them a chance for a better life when the indenture expired.
Kinda like:
'Fair system' > current college sports system >>>>> indentured servitude >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> slavery.
Old white men talking about is football slavery. This should go over veeeeeeery well.
The Hypocrisy Parade marches on.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/dan-wolken/2020/08/19/college-football-leaders-keep-moving-goalposts-covid-19-surges/5611083002/
North Carolina tried a week of in-person classes before deciding that wasn't going to work. Notre Dame is going virtual for two weeks because a spike of positive cases showed up a week or so after students moved in. More universities are inevitably headed for the same fate.
Yet college football remains on track to start in a few weeks in six of the 10 Football Bowl Subdivision Conferences with a new talking point attached to them: It's actually safer for football if regular students have been sent home.
"That helps us create a better seal around (the) program and a better bubble," North Carolina coach Mack Brown said.
He's not wrong. If a university's top priority is to play a football season under the current conditions, its best chance — perhaps only chance — is to sequester football players from their classmates for the next four months.
But that's not the tune college athletics officials were singing several months ago. Not even close.
In fact, after a mid-April conference call between the College Football Playoff management committee and Vice President Mike Pence, the coordinated message from conference commissioners was diametrically opposite.
"If things are all virtual and if you can't have kids on campus, can you justify the risks of having athletes on campus?" American Athletic Conference commissioner Mike Aresco said at the time.
Said Big 12 commissioner Bob Bowlsby on the Golic and Wingo radio show: "The question was asked at one point, can you play football if school's not in session, and I think the answer is no. These are student-athletes that are there for an education and it's unlikely to happen. If online learning becomes the coin of the realm and if that can be satisfactorily implemented I suppose it's theoretically possible that there could be some contests. But if it's not safe for fans to be in the stands, one has to wonder if it's really safe for young people to be banging heads and in close proximity to one another."
And here's SEC commissioner Greg Sankey on Knoxville radio station WNML: "I think fundamentally activity on our campuses is one of the important steps we'll take to bring back college football, college soccer, college volleyball or whatever it may be."
And NCAA president Mark Emmert said May 8 that in Division I: "all of the commissioners and every president that I've talked to is in clear agreement: If you don't have students on campus, you don't have student-athletes on campus."
Donna Lopiano, the former women's athletics director at Texas and current president of The Drake Group, a nonprofit organization whose mission is to defend academic integrity in higher education, could only shake her head.
"You can see the writing on the wall now," she said. "It's really embarrassing. It's just embarrassing."
From Investopedia:
Indentured servitude refers to a contract between two individuals, in which one person worked not for money but in exchange for the price of passage to America. Indentured servitude—popular in the United States in the 1600s—was essentially a kind of barter system. For example, someone who sought a new life in America, but who could not afford the expensive steamship fare from another country, would contract with a wealthy U.S. landowner to perform a type of work for a fixed period in exchange for the price of the boat ticket. ...
Immigrants entered indentured servitude contracts of their own free will, as opposed to slaves, who did not have a choice in the matter. Treatment of indentured servants differed greatly from one master to another. ...
Servants also fared better than slaves in other respects: they had access to the courts and were entitled to own land.
Obviously, I was using hyperbole when I made my earlier reference to indentured servitude. But as the above shows, there certainly are parallels.
Athletes -- especially football players, but also basketball players and others -- choose the "servitude" of college sports because the system was set up by the masters years ago to make it by far the best way (and in some cases the only realistic way) for the servants to win their financial freedom as athletes.
For example, Trevor Lawrence, who would have been the No. 1 draft pick last spring if not for the ridiculous rules set up by the NFL and endorsed by the colleges, really had no choice but to play in college another year -- for no salary -- if he wanted to further his career.
He wasn't forced to, as would have been the case if he were a slave, but he really had no choice. It was either play or sit out the season. In other words, he had to make a "contract with a wealthy U.S. landowner (Clemson U.) to perform a type of work (football) for a fixed period (another season) in exchange for the price of the boat ticket (the opportunity to play in the NFL)."
The balance of power, which had tilted 100% to the universities for generations, is finally starting to shift some.
I am proud of the athletes that they realize they have been used and underrepresented, that they realize they are the most important part of college athletics (as universities long have claimed but have not shown to be true by their actions), and that they now are trying to do something about it.
I'm happy for the young men and women that the forced redshirt year for transfers appears to be on the way out, and that it's all but a done deal they will be eligible to get compensated for their NIL.
It's not a "tectonic change" yet, but there finally is some incremental progress.
There are definitely parallels between college sports and indentured servitude, but as you acknowledged, they are still quite different.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 23, 2020, 05:11:27 PM
There are definitely parallels between college sports and indentured servitude, but as you acknowledged, they are still quite different.
Let's not forget that no one is forced into indentured servitude.
Some people in the Middle Ages preferred to be indentured servants over being free because of the security it provided. The key was to be tied to a nice landowner. Similar parallels.
Quote from: warriorchick on August 23, 2020, 05:14:20 PM
Let's not forget that no one is forced into indentured servitude.
Correct. That's one of the parallels.
It's just that the differences are pretty vast....
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 23, 2020, 05:36:47 PM
Correct. That's one of the parallels.
It's just that the differences are pretty vast....
99% of college athletes will not benefit from NIL but will from scholarships and other benefits. The schools are losing millions dollars due to COVID. Who is in the right?
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 23, 2020, 05:50:48 PM
99% of college athletes will not benefit from NIL but will from scholarships and other benefits. The schools are losing millions dollars due to COVID. Who is in the right?
What I said had nothing to do with COVID.
Quote from: MU82 on August 23, 2020, 06:01:17 PM
What I said had nothing to do with COVID.
I was agreeing with you. But. COVID is a real thing that some people only want the schools to pay for. And, let's face it we will all pay for it.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 23, 2020, 06:51:39 PM
I was agreeing with you. But. COVID is a real thing that some people only want the schools to pay for. And, let's face it we will all pay for it.
OK, but I still don't get the connection. I still don't know what you meant by "Who is in the right?"
wtf are these posts.. wth is going on
Quote from: MU82 on August 23, 2020, 07:20:19 PM
OK, but I still don't get the connection. I still don't know what you meant by "Who is in the right?"
I was questioning the NIL proposal, 1% of student athletes will benefit but the schools bear the burden of potential losses. I'm sorry. I was not clear. I'll move on.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 23, 2020, 08:02:01 PM
I was questioning the NIL proposal, 1% of student athletes will benefit but the schools bear the burden of potential losses. I'm sorry. I was not clear. I'll move on.
I think you are underestimating the number of athletes who will benefit and overestimating the potential losses of the schools.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 23, 2020, 09:01:58 PM
I think you are underestimating the number of athletes who will benefit and overestimating the potential losses of the schools.
Schools are not lookingat huge loses? Some have abandoned some sports for good.
There's got to be like 30,000 college athletes. How many will make money? Maybe 1% is a little too low but not far off.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 23, 2020, 09:29:49 PM
Schools are not lookingat huge loses? Some have abandoned some sports for good.
There's got to be like 30,000 college athletes. How many will make money? Maybe 1% is a little too low but not far off.
From NIL? I think any losses will be more than manageable. NIL doesn't require universities to pay athletes it allows money from outside entities to go to athletes.
100% of college athletes will have the opportunity to make money off of NIL. Not all of them will take advantage. Remember, NIL isn't just about the huge shoe endorsements. It also allows them to use their status as a college athlete to make money teaching skills camps, influencing on social media, and in other small ways.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on August 23, 2020, 09:46:45 PM
From NIL? I think any losses will be more than manageable. NIL doesn't require universities to pay athletes it allows money from outside entities to go to athletes.
Yes they are manageable by cutting sports, which is happening.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on August 23, 2020, 10:50:20 PM
Yes they are manageable by cutting sports, which is happening.
No sports have been cut because of NIL.
D-1 College Sports is a very good deal for the Student Athlete. What many are overlooking is the cost of the capital and operating costs to create these great collegiate institutions. The players take no financial risk and get a guaranteed return in the form of scholarships, room and board, books and stipends. Not to mention for any kid with half a brain, a huge leg up in the work world due to their celebrity status as having played for XYZ State University. That is where the dividends of college sports come into play. In real life, many of these athletes start to realize by junior year that there is no pro sports option and start to focus on building their own personal resumes. They generally come out school with a head of steam and do very well.
That said, I am for the likeness rules being lifted. Primarily , for the kids who are not the stars. They can still make good money doing instructional clinics , modeling, social media, participating in corporate events etc . To my way of thinking, the likeness issue is simply one of expanding the available pie and letting more people share in it. The schools where never going to tap into these ancillary revenue streams, so why not open them up to the students.
Quote from: Pakuni on August 23, 2020, 10:57:37 PM
No sports have been cut because of NIL.
Yes, our friend Mr. Trash is conflating two very different things. He is against NIL, and is somehow trying to "prove" something about them by bringing up athletic department cuts relating to COVID. Makes absolutely no sense.
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on August 23, 2020, 11:01:03 PM
D-1 College Sports is a very good deal for the Student Athlete. What many are overlooking is the cost of the capital and operating costs to create these great collegiate institutions. The players take no financial risk and get a guaranteed return in the form of scholarships, room and board, books and stipends. Not to mention for any kid with half a brain, a huge leg up in the work world due to their celebrity status as having played for XYZ State University. That is where the dividends of college sports come into play. In real life, many of these athletes start to realize by junior year that there is no pro sports option and start to focus on building their own personal resumes. They generally come out school with a head of steam and do very well.
That said, I am for the likeness rules being lifted. Primarily , for the kids who are not the stars. They can still make good money doing instructional clinics , modeling, social media, participating in corporate events etc . To my way of thinking, the likeness issue is simply one of expanding the available pie and letting more people share in it. The schools where never going to tap into these ancillary revenue streams, so why not open them up to the students.
Whether or not they are "a very good deal" is in the eye of the beholder. Given the number of student-athletes who are rising up now, it would appear many of them disagree with you.
And one could argue that every time a top-100 football athlete plays (or practices) when he could be playing in the NFL (but can't because of the rules that force him to wait 3 years until after high school), he is taking a "financial risk." And then when guys like McCaffrey and Fournette skip a single exhibition game to reduce that risk a little, they get ripped by some for being "selfish."
Obviously, I agree with your second paragraph, which was a pleasant surprise to read after your first.
I see two possible outcomes with college football, you agree?
----
* The SEC/B12/ACC have bumps and issues, but pull it off. They have games every week from Late September until Dec. Everyone is satisfied they had a fall season as best they could.
If this happens, the B1G are in choas and lost hundreds of millions. B1G Commissioner Kevin Warren is out and many B1G University Presidents are grilled by their Trustees about how this happened and what are they going to do to cover these (now seen as unnecessary) losses?
* The SEC/B12/ACC attempt to have a fall season fails, ends early after a couple of games, sickness (or worse) and potentially a superspreader event is the story.
If this happens, the SEC/B12/ACC are in choas. Commissioners and University Presidents are called to how they allowed this to happen, resignations to follow. Kevin Warren is a hero.
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on August 23, 2020, 11:01:03 PM
D-1 College Sports is a very good deal for the Student Athlete. What many are overlooking is the cost of the capital and operating costs to create these great collegiate institutions. The players take no financial risk and get a guaranteed return in the form of scholarships, room and board, books and stipends. Not to mention for any kid with half a brain, a huge leg up in the work world due to their celebrity status as having played for XYZ State University. That is where the dividends of college sports come into play. In real life, many of these athletes start to realize by junior year that there is no pro sports option and start to focus on building their own personal resumes. They generally come out school with a head of steam and do very well.
That said, I am for the likeness rules being lifted. Primarily , for the kids who are not the stars. They can still make good money doing instructional clinics , modeling, social media, participating in corporate events etc . To my way of thinking, the likeness issue is simply one of expanding the available pie and letting more people share in it. The schools where never going to tap into these ancillary revenue streams, so why not open them up to the students.
I agree with this. Well stated.
Quote from: MU82 on August 24, 2020, 07:07:00 AM
Whether or not they are "a very good deal" is in the eye of the beholder. Given the number of student-athletes who are rising up now, it would appear many of them disagree with you.
And one could argue that every time a top-100 football athlete plays (or practices) when he could be playing in the NFL (but can't because of the rules that force him to wait 3 years until after high school), he is taking a "financial risk." And then when guys like McCaffrey and Fournette skip a single exhibition game to reduce that risk a little, they get ripped by some for being "selfish."
Obviously, I agree with your second paragraph, which was a pleasant surprise to read after your first.
Your first paragraph tries to claim people rising up is always proof that people have been mistreated but it doesn't really prove anything. All it takes is for easily influenced people to start a movement and see where it goes.
Also the argument for a top 100 football recruit losing out of money because they're stuck in college isn't great either. It assumes a new crop of 100 recruits get signed into the NFL every year. It also assumes that at 18 they're able to compete with grown men who do this professionally. I agree is BS that people get upset when stars skip meaningless bowl games but your kid ranked 99 isn't losing out on pro money by going to college for a year.
Quote from: MU82 on August 23, 2020, 05:05:50 PM
From Investopedia:
Indentured servitude refers to a contract between two individuals, in which one person worked not for money but in exchange for the price of passage to America. Indentured servitude—popular in the United States in the 1600s—was essentially a kind of barter system. For example, someone who sought a new life in America, but who could not afford the expensive steamship fare from another country, would contract with a wealthy U.S. landowner to perform a type of work for a fixed period in exchange for the price of the boat ticket. ...
Immigrants entered indentured servitude contracts of their own free will, as opposed to slaves, who did not have a choice in the matter. Treatment of indentured servants differed greatly from one master to another. ...
Servants also fared better than slaves in other respects: they had access to the courts and were entitled to own land.
Obviously, I was using hyperbole when I made my earlier reference to indentured servitude. But as the above shows, there certainly are parallels.
Athletes -- especially football players, but also basketball players and others -- choose the "servitude" of college sports because the system was set up by the masters years ago to make it by far the best way (and in some cases the only realistic way) for the servants to win their financial freedom as athletes.
For example, Trevor Lawrence, who would have been the No. 1 draft pick last spring if not for the ridiculous rules set up by the NFL and endorsed by the colleges, really had no choice but to play in college another year -- for no salary -- if he wanted to further his career.
He wasn't forced to, as would have been the case if he were a slave, but he really had no choice. It was either play or sit out the season. In other words, he had to make a "contract with a wealthy U.S. landowner (Clemson U.) to perform a type of work (football) for a fixed period (another season) in exchange for the price of the boat ticket (the opportunity to play in the NFL)."
The balance of power, which had tilted 100% to the universities for generations, is finally starting to shift some.
I am proud of the athletes that they realize they have been used and underrepresented, that they realize they are the most important part of college athletics (as universities long have claimed but have not shown to be true by their actions), and that they now are trying to do something about it.
I'm happy for the young men and women that the forced redshirt year for transfers appears to be on the way out, and that it's all but a done deal they will be eligible to get compensated for their NIL.
It's not a "tectonic change" yet, but there finally is some incremental progress.
Check out the new show on Hulu & NatGeo
Barkskins.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on August 24, 2020, 08:07:11 AM
Your first paragraph tries to claim people rising up is always proof that people have been mistreated but it doesn't really prove anything. All it takes is for easily influenced people to start a movement and see where it goes.
Also the argument for a top 100 football recruit losing out of money because they're stuck in college isn't great either. It assumes a new crop of 100 recruits get signed into the NFL every year. It also assumes that at 18 they're able to compete with grown men who do this professionally. I agree is BS that people get upset when stars skip meaningless bowl games but your kid ranked 99 isn't losing out on pro money by going to college for a year.
I agree with your first paragraph. I wasn't trying to use it as "proof," just as a sign that the athletes themselves are starting to rise up against being indentured servants.
Disagree with much of your second paragraph. I said nothing in my earlier comment about 18-year-olds. Who I specifically mentioned was Trevor Lawrence, who turns 21 in 2 months. He would have been the No. 1 draft pick had he been allowed to go pro after last season.
Thanks for the conversation.
Quote from: MU82 on August 24, 2020, 08:42:23 AM
I agree with your first paragraph. I wasn't trying to use it as "proof," just as a sign that the athletes themselves are starting to rise up against being indentured servants.
Disagree with much of your second paragraph. I said nothing in my earlier comment about 18-year-olds. Who I specifically mentioned was Trevor Lawrence, who turns 21 in 2 months. He would have been the No. 1 draft pick had he been allowed to go pro after last season.
Thanks for the conversation.
When I read your "top 100 football athlete" I took that as top 100 recruiting rankings hence the 18yr olds. Mea culpa
You are welcome for the conversation, let's do it again some time. :)
Governor Is 'Major Roadblock' To Big Ten Playing Football
https://thespun.com/big-ten/michigan-wolverines/report-1-governor-is-major-roadblock-to-big-ten-playing-football
Before fans of Big Ten football prematurely celebrate, we have to inform you that a brief season might not happen this fall. In fact, there is one governor reportedly standing in the way of all the others.
Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer is being referred to as a "roadblock" for Iowa, Nebraska, Ohio State and Penn State. They need more teams to join them for a 10-game format, but that could be an issue.
"I also was also told that one roadblock to the new plan is the fact that Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer has been vehemently opposed to football being played – at the high school and college level – in the state this fall," Snook said. "Ohio Governor Mike DeWine gave his blessing to all sports being played this fall on Tuesday."
If Gov. Whitmer doesn't want football played in the state of Michigan this fall, we can cross the Wolverines off the list for the six-team, 10-game format.
At this point, Ohio State will have to ask other schools to support its proposal for a 2020 season.
With this turn, I'll say IBTL now.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 25, 2020, 06:58:35 AM
Governor Is 'Major Roadblock' To Big Ten Playing Football
https://thespun.com/big-ten/michigan-wolverines/report-1-governor-is-major-roadblock-to-big-ten-playing-football
Before fans of Big Ten football prematurely celebrate, we have to inform you that a brief season might not happen this fall. In fact, there is one governor reportedly standing in the way of all the others.
Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer is being referred to as a "roadblock" for Iowa, Nebraska, Ohio State and Penn State. They need more teams to join them for a 10-game format, but that could be an issue.
"I also was also told that one roadblock to the new plan is the fact that Michigan Governor Gretchen Whitmer has been vehemently opposed to football being played – at the high school and college level – in the state this fall," Snook said. "Ohio Governor Mike DeWine gave his blessing to all sports being played this fall on Tuesday."
If Gov. Whitmer doesn't want football played in the state of Michigan this fall, we can cross the Wolverines off the list for the six-team, 10-game format.
At this point, Ohio State will have to ask other schools to support its proposal for a 2020 season.
A civil servant taking the care and concern of the
entire population into account rather then cravenly caving to a small minority must confuse your neurological capacity.
NC State pauses football, athletics due to coronavirus cluster within the program
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/nc-state/article245213960.html
N.C. State announced Monday that all athletic-related activities are suspended due to a coronavirus cluster within its sports programs.
In a statement on its website, N.C. State reported 27 cases within its athletic department, and of those, not all are athletes.
--------------
In the end, this won't be decided by commissioners, college presidents or governors. It will be decided by the virus.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on August 25, 2020, 10:07:36 AM
A civil servant taking the care and concern of the entire population into account rather then cravenly caving to a small minority must confuse your neurological capacity.
Despite what some would have you believe here, the University of Michigan and Michigan State University are run by independently elected boards of regents, not the governor. While she may be able to exert some bully pulpit-style influence, she cannot be a "roadblock" to the universities playing football, short of a public health order (which she has not issued).
And I think we would be hearing about this from multiple sources if she indeed was actually a roadblock.
There really isn't much evidence, based on lack of chatter from actual football writers, that this is anywhere near happening.
I did a couple of Google searches, and can't find the answer to this (seemingly simple) question: Are the Big Ten football teams even still practicing?
I would assume not given the formal cancellation of the fall season, but I can't seem to find a definitive answer. And assuming they aren't, the gap in practices alone makes it increasingly less likely the teams could 'catch up' in terms of readiness with the Big 12, ACC and SEC schools.
Anyone know for sure?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 25, 2020, 03:14:58 PM
I did a couple of Google searches, and can't find the answer to this (seemingly simple) question: Are the Big Ten football teams even still practicing?
I would assume not given the formal cancellation of the fall season, but I can't seem to find a definitive answer. And assuming they aren't, the gap in practices alone makes it increasingly less likely the teams could 'catch up' in terms of readiness with the Big 12, ACC and SEC schools.
Anyone know for sure?
Yes, practice remains mandatory.
Day by Day, College Football Sees More Signs of a Season in Jeopardy
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/25/sports/ncaafootball/coronavirus-college-football.html?referringSource=articleShare
Soon after the All-America list was released, Texas Tech announced that it had 21 active coronavirus cases in its football program, and Oklahoma Coach Lincoln Riley told reporters that an entire position group — save one player — had to stop practicing because of positive tests. And the preseason list came out one day after North Carolina State, which has moved classes online, said it would pause all sports activities after three clusters of cases broke out on campus, including one in athletics.
A telling moment about the reckoning that college football is facing came Monday in Tuscaloosa, Ala., where University of Alabama officials reported that they had recorded more than 500 cases since Aug. 19.
————————-
I suspect the only tectonic change we will see for a while is the absence of college football this fall...
The SEC may be trying to have a season, but it will be without LSU's Ja'Marr Chase, who will skip the season to focus on the NFL draft because of Covid.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29773535/source-lsu-receiver-jamarr-chase-enter-nfl-draft
Quote from: GooooMarquette on August 30, 2020, 10:34:21 PM
The SEC may be trying to have a season, but it will be without LSU's Ja'Marr Chase, who will skip the season to focus on the NFL draft because of Covid.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29773535/source-lsu-receiver-jamarr-chase-enter-nfl-draft
Sounds pretty smart.
Could it be back on for this fall?
https://twitter.com/@realDonaldTrump
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Had a very productive conversation with Kevin Warren, Commissioner of the Big Ten Conference, about immediately starting up Big Ten football. Would be good (great!) for everyone - Players, Fans, Country. On the one yard line!
Today at 10:18
I am glad that this is what the President of the United States is concerned with.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 01, 2020, 10:51:34 AM
Could it be back on for this fall?
https://twitter.com/@realDonaldTrump
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Had a very productive conversation with Kevin Warren, Commissioner of the Big Ten Conference, about immediately starting up Big Ten football. Would be good (great!) for everyone - Players, Fans, Country. On the one yard line! But if the players engage in peaceful protest by respectfully taking a knee during the national anthem, I will send out 17-year-olds with assault rifles to make them stop.
Today at 10:18
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 01, 2020, 10:51:34 AM
Could it be back on for this fall?
https://twitter.com/@realDonaldTrump
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Had a very productive conversation with Kevin Warren, Commissioner of the Big Ten Conference, about immediately starting up Big Ten football. Would be good (great!) for everyone - Players, Fans, Country. On the one yard line!
Today at 10:18
Where is his concern over the PAC-12?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 01, 2020, 10:51:34 AM
Could it be back on for this fall?
https://twitter.com/@realDonaldTrump
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Had a very productive conversation with Kevin Warren, Commissioner of the Big Ten Conference, about immediately starting up Big Ten football. Would be good (great!) for everyone - Players, Fans, Country. On the one yard line!
Today at 10:18
The Big Ten is disputing, in so many words, that it is "on the one yard line."
Unless he means on their own one yard line.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on September 01, 2020, 11:34:06 AM
Where is his concern over the PAC-12?
They BLUE their chance.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 01, 2020, 10:51:34 AM
Could it be back on for this fall?
https://twitter.com/@realDonaldTrump
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Had a very productive conversation with Kevin Warren, Commissioner of the Big Ten Conference, about immediately starting up Big Ten football. Would be good (great!) for everyone - Players, Fans, Country. On the one yard line!
Today at 10:18
https://sports.yahoo.com/trumps-big-ten-tweets-fit-agenda-not-reality-191816394.html
"To say multiple sources denied the notion of the Big Ten playing immediately would not be strong enough. The sources heartily laughed at it. The notion of playing around Thanksgiving is in embryonic discussion, and there's a desire among coaches to start as early as possible. But "immediately" is in another universe, especially with multiple Big Ten teams not even having players on campus right now."
But SirYacht said the Big 10 season starts Oct. 10...
Parker Gabriel @HuskerExtraPG
Reached via text this afternoon, #Huskers AD Bill Moos said of the Oct. 10 Big Ten start date rumor: "There's nothing to that."
Moos is part of a subcommittee that is looking into potential scheduling models as part of the league's return to competition group.
Quote from: TSmith34 on September 01, 2020, 11:02:53 AM
I am glad that this is what the President of the United States is concerned with.
More BS from Trump.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 01, 2020, 03:07:11 PM
But SirYacht said the Big 10 season starts Oct. 10...
Parker Gabriel @HuskerExtraPG
Reached via text this afternoon, #Huskers AD Bill Moos said of the Oct. 10 Big Ten start date rumor: "There's nothing to that."
Moos is part of a subcommittee that is looking into potential scheduling models as part of the league's return to competition group.
@dpshow
"From source: If conference can pass updated safety measures and procedures, Big Ten targeting Oct. 10 to start football season." - Dan Patrick
——
I can imagine the thrill MU82 is having over Trump facilitating this!!!
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 01, 2020, 07:59:30 PM
@dpshow
"From source: If conference can pass updated safety measures and procedures, Big Ten targeting Oct. 10 to start football season." - Dan Patrick
——
I can imagine the thrill MU82 is having over Trump facilitating this!!!
After the Dan Patrick show aired:
1. https://twitter.com/huskerextrapg/status/1300882816121671681?s=21 (scroll down to link to article)
2. https://twitter.com/brucefeldmancfb/status/1300930151023169536?s=21
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 01, 2020, 07:59:30 PM
@dpshow
"From source: If conference can pass updated safety measures and procedures, Big Ten targeting Oct. 10 to start football season." - Dan Patrick
Looks like Dan's sources are confused. This was yesterday.
@dpshow: "The Big Ten Thanksgiving start is a very long shot. More Support for late January and an 8 game schedule..." Dan has update on why it will be difficult for the Big Ten to come back earlier https://twitter.com/dpshow/status/1300423323181080585/video/1
Anyhow, do you believe the Nebraska AD, who didn't want the season canceled in the first place, is now lying?
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 01, 2020, 07:59:30 PM
@dpshow
"From source: If conference can pass updated safety measures and procedures, Big Ten targeting Oct. 10 to start football season." - Dan Patrick
——
I can imagine the thrill MU82 is having over Trump facilitating this!!!
Facilitating what? Mexico paying for the wall? China ceding the "easy to win" trade war? Health care being "easy to solve"? Keeping the GOP majority in the House? Coronavirus cases going "close to zero within days" because "we have it under control"? Annual GDP growth of 4%? A national plan to fight the pandemic?
Is "facilitating" a synonym for fu@%ing up?
Let us know when something notable has been accomplished regarding the Big Ten football situation. You've floated so many scenarios here, not a single one of which has happened yet.
Quote from: MU82 on September 01, 2020, 11:12:49 PM
Facilitating what? Mexico paying for the wall? China ceding the "easy to win" trade war? Health care being "easy to solve"? Keeping the GOP majority in the House? Coronavirus cases going "close to zero within days" because "we have it under control"? Annual GDP growth of 4%? A national plan to fight the pandemic?
Is "facilitating" a synonym for fu@%ing up?
Let us know when something notable has been accomplished regarding the Big Ten football situation. You've floated so many scenarios here, not a single one of which has happened yet.
Seems that I triggered you.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 02, 2020, 11:39:01 AM
Seems that I triggered you.
Perhaps. It is what trolls live for.
So the SEC plans to play football, but one star after another opting out. First LSU's top WR, now UGA's starting QB.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2020/09/02/georgia-quarterback-jamie-newman-opts-out/5696361002/
Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 02, 2020, 08:33:09 PM
So the SEC plans to play football, but one star after another opting out. First LSU's top WR, now UGA's starting QB.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2020/09/02/georgia-quarterback-jamie-newman-opts-out/5696361002/
For both, but Chase in particular, it's more about protecting draft status than anything else. He's a lock top 10 - and probably top 5 - pick. With Burrows, Jefferson and Edwards-Helaire all gone from LSU, the only way for him to go was down.
Kids who aren't comfortable playing shouldn't play, of course, but the vast, vast majority are playing.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 02, 2020, 09:20:59 PM
For both, but Chase in particular, it's more about protecting draft status than anything else. He's a lock top 10 - and probably top 5 - pick. With Burrows, Jefferson and Edwards-Helaire all gone from LSU, the only way for him to go was down.
Kids who aren't comfortable playing shouldn't play, of course, but the vast, vast majority are playing.
If it was about draft status and nothing else, they would have announced after the end of last season (and maybe just entered last year's draft). The fact that guys are announcing on the eve of the new season seems to point to a different motivation. Maybe it's fear of Covid, the belief that the season will never be completed, or the belief that any games would have an asterisk, but it is not your typical 'guy forgoing his senior season to protect draft status' situation.
The Georgia QB specifically cited the coronavirus in giving his reason for not playing.
Quote from: MU82 on September 02, 2020, 11:52:24 PM
The Georgia QB specifically cited the coronavirus in giving his reason for not playing.
Yep. And here is a 247 article that lists many other opt-outs, many of whom specifically cited COVID as the reason. It was written before Newman opted out at UGA and includes B10 and Pac12 players, but there are plenty of high quality SEC, B12 and ACC players on the list...like Kennedy Brooks at Oklahoma (2200 rushing yards already), Kary Vincent at LSU, and of course Chase.
https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-players-who-have-opted-out-of-2020-season-COVID-coronavirus-149853053/#149853053_8
Yeah, there will still be more than enough to field teams. We'll see how long the season lasts....
Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 03, 2020, 08:50:52 AM
Yep. And here is a 247 article that lists many other opt-outs, many of whom specifically cited COVID as the reason. It was written before Newman opted out at UGA and includes B10 and Pac12 players, but there are plenty of high quality SEC, B12 and ACC players on the list...like Kennedy Brooks at Oklahoma (2200 rushing yards already), Kary Vincent at LSU, and of course Chase.
https://247sports.com/LongFormArticle/College-football-players-who-have-opted-out-of-2020-season-COVID-coronavirus-149853053/#149853053_8
Yeah, there will still be more than enough to field teams. We'll see how long the season lasts....
Wait, wait, wait ... when did I say the draft was the
only reason Chase and Newman opted out, or that other players weren't opting out due to COVID?
Whole lot of straw-manning going on here.
Both Chase and Newman specifically cited draft preparation as their focus, and the reporting on Chase in particular said his decision was
not COVID-related.
Sources told CBS Sports on Sunday that Chase's decision is not specifically related to the COVID-19 pandemic. Rather, it is believed agents may have simply convinced Chase to leave before his third collegiate season. NFL rules state a player cannot be drafted until three years after his high school graduation.https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/lsu-star-jamarr-chase-the-nations-top-wr-opts-out-of-season-and-will-declare-for-2021-nfl-draft/
As for the season, we'll see. Same doom-and-gloom surrounded MLB and, to a lesser extent, NBA, NHL and MLS. The MLB season was essentially left for dead a few weeks back.
Yep, Pak ... I'm sticking with "we'll see" as my default reaction to any of this stuff.
Football is a sport where the players optimize their skills and conditioning with a year off. So instead of taking a beating in the SEC every week, I don't blame the Georgia Quarterback for using the time to improve. He had a solid career at Wake Forest before he transferred, and most likely doesn't need to prove anything more on the playing field. He can now stay relatively isolated and healthy until NFL combine Pro Days etc.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 02, 2020, 08:33:09 PM
So the SEC plans to play football, but one star after another opting out. First LSU's top WR, now UGA's starting QB.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/ncaaf/sec/2020/09/02/georgia-quarterback-jamie-newman-opts-out/5696361002/
Lots of reasons to withdraw but not having someone like Joe Burrow throwing the ball may have made the decision pretty easy for Chase.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on September 03, 2020, 11:24:10 AM
Lots of reasons to withdraw but not having someone like Joe Burrow throwing the ball may have made the decision pretty easy for Chase.
And it woulda been easy to tell everyone back in January....
Quote from: Pakuni on September 03, 2020, 09:28:09 AM
As for the season, we'll see. Same doom-and-gloom surrounded MLB and, to a lesser extent, NBA, NHL and MLS. The MLB season was essentially left for dead a few weeks back.
Controlling 30-ish professional athletes playing a mostly non-contact sport (MLB) is a LOT easier than controlling 100-ish college kids playing a sport with hand-to-hand combat on every single play. NBA, NHL and MLS are completely different animals, given that they're playing in bubbles.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 03, 2020, 01:37:22 PM
Controlling 30-ish professional athletes playing a mostly non-contact sport (MLB) is a LOT easier than controlling 100-ish college kids playing a sport with hand-to-hand combat on every single play. NBA, NHL and MLS are completely different animals, given that they're playing in bubbles.
Maybe, maybe not. The Marlins, Cardinals and Indians organizations might tell you it's not so easy to control wealthy, young professional athletes over whom you have limited leverage. I'd argue that college coaches can exert more control and hold more leverage over 18-21 year olds.
And if we're being honest, the real threat to exposure for the athletes is when they're away from football activities.
The Penn State study is merely today's tectonic change.
Quote from: tower912 on September 03, 2020, 03:49:12 PM
The Penn State study is merely today's tectonic change.
Not really, though.
https://sports.yahoo.com/nuance-lost-in-penn-state-doctors-report-on-covid-19-athletes-with-myocarditis-212430060.html
If this is the medical advice the B10 followed, that is a shame because it is hardly scientific consensus. We will see if a season gets played anywhere, but if the other conferences manage to pull this off with the B10 playing in -10 below weather in January, they are going to look quite foolish.
Mayo Clinic cardiologist:
@MJAckermanMDPhD: Unfortunately, it is deja vu all over again. I last tossed down the physician's RED FLAG & cried FOUL on this #COVID19 #myocarditis issue on August 11th and now forced to do it again. There is no way that 30-35% of #Athletes with COVID19 have myocarditis.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 03, 2020, 01:30:08 PM
And it woulda been easy to tell everyone back in January....
Not really.
You have to go through spring ball to see what the personnel is and we had delays on that into the summer due to the Covid-19 disaster so the timeframe of August makes total sense for his withdrawal on sporting reasons.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 04, 2020, 09:32:20 AM
Mayo Clinic cardiologist:
@MJAckermanMDPhD: Unfortunately, it is deja vu all over again. I last tossed down the physician's RED FLAG & cried FOUL on this #COVID19 #myocarditis issue on August 11th and now forced to do it again. There is no way that 30-35% of #Athletes with COVID19 have myocarditis.
Heard him on a podcast with an MD who was on the P12 advising committee. Ackerman is right that the German study should not be used in translation to athletes. He also emphasized that everything is a maybe? right now. The P12 MD said he couldn't advise to play, because he was afraid they were going to spread the virus.
What happened to following the science?
Sep 12, 2020
Report: Big Ten Voting On Return of Fall Sports
https://www.si.com/.amp-maryland/college/maryland/football/report-big-ten-voting-return-to-play
Reports on Saturday morning that the Big Ten Return to Competition Taskforce will vote on the return on fall sports as a proposed October 17 start date floats.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 12, 2020, 08:47:40 PM
What happened to following the science?
Sep 12, 2020
Report: Big Ten Voting On Return of Fall Sports
https://www.si.com/.amp-maryland/college/maryland/football/report-big-ten-voting-return-to-play
Reports on Saturday morning that the Big Ten Return to Competition Taskforce will vote on the return on fall sports as a proposed October 17 start date floats.
They are following $omething el$e.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 12, 2020, 08:47:40 PM
What happened to following the science?
Sep 12, 2020
Report: Big Ten Voting On Return of Fall Sports
https://www.si.com/.amp-maryland/college/maryland/football/report-big-ten-voting-return-to-play
Reports on Saturday morning that the Big Ten Return to Competition Taskforce will vote on the return on fall sports as a proposed October 17 start date floats.
Things have changed in that conferences (Big 12) have access to rapid antibody testing, so can isolate and contain positives quickly. The morality of B10 teams having access to these and say me (been in hospital rooms of COVID+ patients that literally look at Camp Randall), not having access to rapid testing is a different question.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 12, 2020, 08:47:40 PM
What happened to following the science?
Sep 12, 2020
Report: Big Ten Voting On Return of Fall Sports
https://www.si.com/.amp-maryland/college/maryland/football/report-big-ten-voting-return-to-play
Reports on Saturday morning that the Big Ten Return to Competition Taskforce will vote on the return on fall sports as a proposed October 17 start date floats.
#revisionisthistory
Your agenda is clear.
Aug 11:
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on August 11, 2020, 09:12:33 AM
The outcry was so big that the Big 10 is meeting again today and considering "uncanceling" the season.
Nothing happened. They voted 11-3 to postpone the football season.
Sep 12:
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 12, 2020, 08:47:40 PM
Taskforce will vote on the return on fall sports as a proposed October 17 start date floats.
TBD. Is public health so much better in the past 30 days to flip 6 more votes? (need 60+% to move forward)? Doubtful.
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29880363/sources-big-ten-meets-again-sunday-no-vote-return-play
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on September 14, 2020, 06:09:17 AM
https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29880363/sources-big-ten-meets-again-sunday-no-vote-return-play
from this link
The Detroit Free Press first reported that Sunday's meeting would not end in a vote.
A formal vote is expected in the next few days, sources said.----
Rocky, I agree with you ... regarding the medical aspects of the virus, nothing has changed, and certainly not enough to see six universities change their opinion.
That said, never forget the most important data point when "following the science" ... the amount of money they are losing every week without football, and the amount of money the SEC and ACC are
not losing every week because they have football.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on September 12, 2020, 11:49:12 PM
Aug 11:
Nothing happened. They voted 11-3 to postpone the football season.
Sep 12:
TBD. Is public health so much better in the past 30 days to flip 6 more votes? (need 60+% to move forward)? Doubtful.
If the Big 10 universities were concerned with the health of the athletes, they probably wouldn't sponsor football in the first place. COVID is well down the list of maladies an otherwise healthy 18-22 year old faces when he steps onto the field.
Heisey is right about one thing ... this decision is being driven by financial concerns. Just like the decision not to play was driven by financial concerns.
Dave Portnoy (Davey Day Trader), President of Barstool Sports, went to Michigan, and heard Michigan is now the hold up to playing football this fall.
He has a three minute rant about why they should play and if Michigan is indeed the school they kills football this fall, they are dead to him.
Entertaining!
https://twitter.com/stoolpresidente/status/1304951689372479488?s=21
Michigan State has had a huge COVID outbreak. Michigan has lamented about the impact on their athletic department budget.
If Barstool is for it, common sense should be against it.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2020/09/13/big-ten-football-presidents-vote-michigan-msu/5788122002/
MSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn St, Maryland all dealing with COVID related issues. How do you make the case for playing when the entire campus is in lockdown and all classes are virtual?
They really don't need to "make the case for playing" if they simply want to play and the $$ that comes along with it.
Quote from: tower912 on September 15, 2020, 08:01:55 AM
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverines/2020/09/13/big-ten-football-presidents-vote-michigan-msu/5788122002/
MSU, Michigan, Wisconsin, Penn St, Maryland all dealing with COVID related issues. How do you make the case for playing when the entire campus is in lockdown and all classes are virtual?
Headline crossing now (no story yet)
*BIG TEN COMING BACK WEEKEND OF OCT. 24: YAHOO SPORTS REPORTERI guess this means the Big 10 Presidents are science deniers.
ADDEDDaily rapid testing for players....to everyone else....you're on your own!
But, don't you dare accuse them of considering money when making this decision.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on September 16, 2020, 08:02:06 AM
Headline crossing now (no story yet)
*BIG TEN COMING BACK WEEKEND OF OCT. 24: YAHOO SPORTS REPORTER
I guess this means the Big 10 Presidents are science deniers.
IMO, the science deniers are in the SEC, etc...who plowed ahead without a second thought. The Big Ten seems to be acknowledging and concerned about the scientific realities, but has become overwhelmed by the $hort-term lo$$e$.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 16, 2020, 08:21:20 AM
IMO, the science deniers are in the SEC, etc...who plowed ahead without a second thought. The Big Ten seems to be acknowledging and concerned about the scientific realities, but has become overwhelmed by the $hort-term lo$$e$.
The SEC isn't denying the science at all. They're testing three times a week, requiring cardiac evaluations, etc.
Would I be wrong to assume you believe playing = denying the science?
I think the mistake you may be making is believing the SEC (and other science denying conferences) think they can play with zero infections. I don't believe anyone thinks that. I think they expect and accept infections, and believe they can play through them.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the real threat to athletes' health isn't on the football fields and athletic complexes. It's when they mix with the general student body.
https://www.startribune.com/big-ten-football-plans-oct-23-24-return-with-daily-testing-plan/572428002/
Quote from: Pakuni on September 16, 2020, 10:06:32 AM
The SEC isn't denying the science at all. They're testing three times a week, requiring cardiac evaluations, etc.
Would I be wrong to assume you believe playing = denying the science?
I think the mistake you may be making is believing the SEC (and other science denying conferences) think they can play with zero infections. I don't believe anyone thinks that. I think they expect and accept infections, and believe they can play through them.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the real threat to athletes' health isn't on the football fields and athletic complexes. It's when they mix with the general student body.
100% agree.
"Science denier" has become shorthand for "anyone who disagrees with me".
https://www.youtube.com/v/V83JR2IoI8k?rel=0
Interesting flip-flop by the Big 14. I hope it works out well for the athletes, coaches and support personnel.
I'm not the biggest college football fan, but the positive news the last few weeks has done wonders for my DKNG investment. Up almost 10% more today!
Quote from: Pakuni on September 16, 2020, 10:06:32 AM
The SEC isn't denying the science at all. They're testing three times a week, requiring cardiac evaluations, etc.
Would I be wrong to assume you believe playing = denying the science?
I think the mistake you may be making is believing the SEC (and other science denying conferences) think they can play with zero infections. I don't believe anyone thinks that. I think they expect and accept infections, and believe they can play through them.
Not to beat a dead horse, but the real threat to athletes' health isn't on the football fields and athletic complexes. It's when they mix with the general student body.
No, I don't believe it's denying the science just to play. But to play outside a legitimate bubble? Maybe not denying, but ignoring the likely outcome.
And if the SEC isn't denying the science, I assume LSU's first few games are going to be postponed since Ed Orgeron just told us that half his team has COVID, right?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 16, 2020, 01:35:57 PM
No, I don't believe it's denying the science just to play. But to play outside a legitimate bubble? Maybe not denying, but ignoring the likely outcome.
And if the SEC isn't denying the science, I assume LSU's first few games are going to be postponed since Ed Orgeron just told us that half his team has COVID, right?
What's the likely outcome? The fact is baseball has been playing for about six weeks now without a single case of transmission during play. After more than a month of training camp, the NFL opened its season over the weekend without a single player testing positive pregame. MLS has been playing outside the bubble for a month without a serious outbreak or evidence of player-to-player transmission. There have been no reports of outbreaks connected to any of the college games played so far.
I think the assumption that playing sports will lead to mass transmissions and outbreaks is proving false. This isn't to say infections can't or won't happen. Players will test positive and games will get postponed/canceled. It's certainly well within the realm of possibility, but there's no evidence that playing sports is reckless. (Unless you believe anything that creates potential exposure is reckless, in which case we'll agree to disagree).
As for LSU, you may be misinterpreting what Orgeron said. He didn't say half his team
is currently infected. He said half his team
has had COVID. As in, they had it and now they don't have it. Most of those cases (about 30) occurred in June.
@TeddyGreenstein
Northwestern Dir of Spts Medicine Jeff Mjaanes says antigen testing is so good, it can "detect a level of virus thought to be below the level of infectivity."
So positive cases can be identified and isolated before a player is contagious. HUGE.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 16, 2020, 02:35:31 PM
@TeddyGreenstein
Northwestern Dir of Spts Medicine Jeff Mjaanes says antigen testing is so good, it can "detect a level of virus thought to be below the level of infectivity."
So positive cases can be identified and isolated before a player is contagious. HUGE.
Is that just at Northwestern or every b1g school? I ask because a school like Northwestern has access to state of the art equipment and labs that I'm unsure if some of the other B1G schools have.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on September 16, 2020, 02:39:07 PM
Is that just at Northwestern or every b1g school? I ask because a school like Northwestern has access to state of the art equipment and labs that I'm unsure if some of the other B1G schools have.
Antigen testing will be used for the entire conference.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 16, 2020, 02:44:42 PM
Antigen testing will be used for the entire conference.
Neat thanks
Quote from: Pakuni on September 16, 2020, 02:27:44 PM
What's the likely outcome? The fact is baseball has been playing for about six weeks now without a single case of transmission during play. After more than a month of training camp, the NFL opened its season over the weekend without a single player testing positive pregame. MLS has been playing outside the bubble for a month without a serious outbreak or evidence of player-to-player transmission. There have been no reports of outbreaks connected to any of the college games played so far.
I think the assumption that playing sports will lead to mass transmissions and outbreaks is proving false. This isn't to say infections can't or won't happen. Players will test positive and games will get postponed/canceled. It's certainly well within the realm of possibility, but there's no evidence that playing sports is reckless. (Unless you believe anything that creates potential exposure is reckless, in which case we'll agree to disagree).
As for LSU, you may be misinterpreting what Orgeron said. He didn't say half his team is currently infected. He said half his team has had COVID. As in, they had it and now they don't have it. Most of those cases (about 30) occurred in June.
I think it's a mistake to compare baseball - a non-contact sport with about 25 players on the roster - to football - a very high-contact sport with about 75 players on a D1 roster. As for Orgeron - is LSU or the SEC releasing the dates of the positive tests in 'half his team'? Maybe you are right, but I didn't see any confirmed timeline.
Bottom line, I think time will show this was a mistake, but I am fine if we disagree.
And anyhow I am getting sick of being right on a lot of the bad stuff (reopening most states way too soon, the pipe dream of a vaccine before the end of the year, etc.), so I would be happy to be proven wrong on this one.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on September 16, 2020, 03:07:14 PM
I think it's a mistake to compare baseball - a non-contact sport with about 25 players on the roster - to football - a very high-contact sport with about 75 players on a D1 roster. As for Orgeron - is LSU or the SEC releasing the dates of the positive tests in 'half his team'? Maybe you are right, but I didn't see any confirmed timeline.
Well, I also cited soccer, college football and NFL training camps, not just baseball. And NFL players are being tested daily and here we are, six days after the season opener and about 72 hours after most teams played, and there have been no reports of related infections. (This, of course, could change).
LSU had an outbreak of 30 or more football players getting the virus last June after many of the players visited the Tigerland bars near campus.https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/sports/college/lsu/2020/09/16/lsu-football-covid-spike-happened-socially-coach-orgeron-honest-to-a-fault/5816165002/
As for right or wrong, I guess that depends on how one wants to judge. I think we both can agree that infections are possible, if not likely. But I wouldn't say playing was the wrong decision if infections occur. You may disagree.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 16, 2020, 03:33:57 PM
Well, I also cited soccer, college football and NFL training camps, not just baseball. And NFL players are being tested daily and here we are, six days after the season opener and about 72 hours after most teams played, and there have been no reports of related infections. (This, of course, could change).
LSU had an outbreak of 30 or more football players getting the virus last June after many of the players visited the Tigerland bars near campus.
https://www.theadvertiser.com/story/sports/college/lsu/2020/09/16/lsu-football-covid-spike-happened-socially-coach-orgeron-honest-to-a-fault/5816165002/
As for right or wrong, I guess that depends on how one wants to judge. I think we both can agree that infections are possible, if not likely. But I wouldn't say playing was the wrong decision if infections occur. You may disagree.
I agree that soccer and college and pro football are better comparators. However, as you indicated, it is still early so the verdict is still out on whether they are a success or failure.
As for whether they could keep playing if infections occur, I think it depends on the speed and accuracy of the testing. If they truly have a highly sensitive test and can show that nobody else was exposed, it would seem reasonable to play. If they don't, I think continuing would be a mistake.
And we have seen plenty of companies roll out tests that seem promising, but ultimately prove to be less reliable than advertised....
To be perfectly honest, I feel way more comfortable with sports moving forward now than I did six weeks ago. You don't need a bubble to make it work. You need to take precautions, test, quarantine and isolate. But you can move forward.
PAC-12 Making Progress
https://www.deseret.com/sports/2020/9/16/21438814/utah-utes-football-pac-12-rapid-testing-gavin-newsom-kate-brown-larry-scott
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on September 16, 2020, 07:44:27 PM
To be perfectly honest, I feel way more comfortable with sports moving forward now than I did six weeks ago. You don't need a bubble to make it work. You need to take precautions, test, quarantine and isolate. But you can move forward.
College Football might be easier than NFL or even the MLB.
You can cohort a non bubble college team and insist they don't socialize. NFL players with have kids, especially school aged kids have the potential for much for interaction.
I think it's cool that rapid testing seems to be evolving to the point that it might be possible to safely play team sports...but I also wonder why it isn't more widely available for the rest of us.
Seems like the first places rapid tests should go would be hospitals and other first responders, nursing facilities, schools...with any leftover capacity to entertainers.
But I gue$$ money talk$....
Interesting stuff on one-year COVID eligibility exception and future transfers from Seth Davis in The Athletic ...
In an era where players don't stay in college any longer than they have to, Wisconsin is proffering a unique look: an all-senior starting lineup. That's a great asset, but it also comes with a painful flip side because it means the program will have to replace all of those starters next season.
At least, that's how it works in normal times. But these, of course, are not normal times. In October, the NCAA's Division I Council granted all winter athletes an additional season of competition. The change, which was also extended to spring and fall sports, was made to give athletes breathing room if they wanted to opt out of their seasons because of the COVID-19 pandemic. To sweeten the deal, the NCAA mandated that if seniors return to their current schools next season, they will not count against that program's scholarship limit.
In other words, Wisconsin and every other school might not have to replace its seniors, after all. And it's not just seniors who can take advantage. Every player in the country, regardless of class, is getting an additional year. "I told our guys, you're all redshirting and none of you are redshirting," Wisconsin coach Greg Gard says. "I haven't really talked with our seniors about it yet, but I've already been told by our administration that we can go over the (scholarship) limit if they want to come back. So when the time comes, they'll have a choice to make."
The quirky, one-time rule is one of several forces that are converging to produce a veritable Rostergeddeon that is about to overtake college basketball. Most of those forces were already in motion before the pandemic hit. With that extra dose of acceleration, the sport is bracing for a perfect storm of upheaval. To wit:
• Traditionally, every sport has allowed their athletes to transfer one time without having to sit out a redshirt year. The exceptions to that rule have been basketball (men's and women's), football, baseball and men's ice hockey. Next month the Division I Council is expected to bring those sports in line with everyone else. Basketball players will still be allowed to transfer more than once, but if they do they'll have to sit out a year on the second transfer. For years, the coaches have been vehemently against offering this onetime exception, but there was no way the NCAA can continue justifying the unequal treatment. Hence, the impending seismic vote.
• Several years ago, the NCAA, no doubt acting on good intentions, offered a process where transfers could ask for a waiver from having to sit out a year if they could demonstrate that they or someone in their immediate family suffered from a debilitating injury or illness. Not surprisingly, hundreds of players (and their new coaches) stretched the definitions of "debilitating" and "immediate" in hopes of exploiting this loophole. Because there was no downside to getting rejected, the number of requests increased every year. That severely strained the NCAA's staff and led to complaints about unfair treatment. It also became moot when the COVID-19 pandemic led the NCAA to grant 85 percent of waiver requests for this season.
Combine all that with next month's anticipated change and you have the Division I Council's decision last Wednesday to grant a blanket waiver to any transfer who was supposed to sit out this season. Thus, a couple of dozen teams were immediately able to suit up players they thought wouldn't be eligible until the fall of 2021.
• The extra year adjustment passed in October could also tip the balance on decisions involving medical redshirts. Several coaches have told me they have injured players who in normal times would sit out all season, because as soon as they step foot in a game they've burned a year of eligibility. Now those injured players will be far more inclined to rejoin their teams down the stretch of the regular season.
• We are also seeing an acceleration of another trend: the in-season addition of a reclassified high school senior. Reclassification has been increasing the last few years with respect to fall-enrolled freshmen. Most of the time, these are players who were held back a year or went to prep school, so their reclassification just put them in their regular age group. But now there are more cases where a high school junior loads up his academics so he can join a college program a year earlier than planned. That now includes in-season reclassifications like the one that allowed Ben Gregg, a 6-10 forward from Oregon, to finish up high school and join Gonzaga last week. USC likewise added Reese Waters, a four-star point guard from California who originally was supposed to graduate next spring. DePaul, LSU, Maryland, Ohio State and Wake Forest added reclassified high school seniors as well.
Once a trend like this gets going, it's awfully hard to stop, especially in an environment where the NCAA is loathe to do anything that further restricts an athlete's ability to exploit opportunities.
The upshot of all this is we probably will see a considerable spike in the number of players who transfer next spring. According to Stadium's Jeff Goodman, who has tracked the transfer wire closely for several years, around 900 players switched Division I schools last year, up from around 500 in 2013. No doubt that will lead to a lot of caterwauling from coaches, but that's only because they are thinking about the players they might lose as opposed to the ones they might add.
If any group suffers from this spike, it will be high school players. It's a lot more efficient for coaches to spend a few weeks recruiting players out of the transfer portal than it is to chase high school guys around the grassroots circuit for several years with no guarantee of success. It's easier to evaluate transfers because they have more playing experience, and because they can only switch schools once without having to sit out, a transfer is less likely to bolt for another school if he's unhappy with his role or his minutes.
And so the perfect storm gathers. A lot of uncertainty is ahead, but the one thing we know for sure is that the rosters, they are a-changing. When the season ends, the madness will begin.
The big beneficiary of these changes will be the lower D1 Programs. There will be high school players and transfers who do not want to sit on the bench at higher level programs and will opt to play at the lower tier programs. D2 will similarly benefit.
This is going to make scheduling cupcakes very interesting.