MUScoop

Period.

Get to the game on time and stay to honor seniors who have busted their ass for several years. So fed up with the reactionary entitled fan base. Support your team.

Quote from: StillWarriors on February 29, 2020, 05:31:18 PM
Period.

Get to the game on time and stay to honor seniors who have busted their ass for several years. So fed up with the reactionary entitled fan base. Support your team.

Yes.

It was too bad people left but I have been to multiple Senior days and it is the same.  Was at the three amigos Senior day and same thing.  People just don't care unfortunately.  They only care enough to bitch when we lose.

Quote from: Shooter McGavin on February 29, 2020, 05:36:33 PM
It was too bad people left but I have been to multiple Senior days and it is the same.  Was at the three amigos Senior day and same thing.  People just don't care unfortunately.  They only care enough to bitch when we lose.

Agree. Disgraceful.

Quote from: StillWarriors on February 29, 2020, 05:31:18 PM
Period.

Get to the game on time and stay to honor seniors who have busted their ass for several years. So fed up with the reactionary entitled fan base. Support your team.

How do you know people don't have plans after the game that they had to leave right after, or even before the game was over to get to?? Not everyone can stay the entire time. And in case you didn't know this(obviously you didn't) the speeches were played on the postgame show on the radio.

LOL This is rich...who said you get to decide how fans should or shouldn't act?? We do support our team, or at least I do(can only speak for me), if expecting them to play better, be more consistent and not liking it when they lose is being entitled, then I'm guilty as charged. Puhlease.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 05:43:05 PM
LOL This is rich...who said you get to decide how fans should or shouldn't act?? We do support our team, or at least I do(can only speak for me), if expecting them to play better, be more consistent and not liking it when they lose is being entitled, then I'm guilty as charged. Puhlease.

Who hurt you?

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 05:43:05 PM
LOL This is rich...who said you get to decide how fans should or shouldn't act?? We do support our team, or at least I do(can only speak for me), if expecting them to play better, be more consistent and not liking it when they lose is being entitled, then I'm guilty as charged. Puhlease.

You support them by saying they dont deserve to be in the tournament. An absolute slap in the face to the players. Who the f uck are you fooling?

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 05:43:05 PM
LOL This is rich...who said you get to decide how fans should or shouldn't act?? We do support our team, or at least I do(can only speak for me), if expecting them to play better, be more consistent and not liking it when they lose is being entitled, then I'm guilty as charged. Puhlease.

Did you get there early and stay for the speeches after?  I did.

If not, gfy.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 05:43:05 PM
How do you know people don't have plans after the game that they had to leave right after, or even before the game was over to get to?? Not everyone can stay the entire time. And in case you didn't know this(obviously you didn't) the speeches were played on the postgame show on the radio.

LOL This is rich...who said you get to decide how fans should or shouldn't act?? We do support our team, or at least I do(can only speak for me), if expecting them to play better, be more consistent and not liking it when they lose is being entitled, then I'm guilty as charged. Puhlease.

You are Exhibit A of our entitled fan base

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 29, 2020, 05:45:18 PM
Did you get there early and stay for the speeches after?  I did.

If not, gfy.

I was there incredibly early..100%. Did I stay for the speeches?? No, because I had another obligation I had to get to afterwards...idk if that's okay with you or not?? I listened to them on the radio I suppose that doesn't count though??

You gfy..You have been one that has 100% demonstrated here that you are fine with losses, don't mind the mediocrity etc. That's your right, but because of that, don't try to fucking tell me I need to stay for speeches afterwards...I support the team in many ways. I HATE when they lose(more than you can say).

Quote from: thebigjake on February 29, 2020, 05:47:24 PM
You are Exhibit A of our entitled fan base

Why don't you unnatural carnal knowledge off?? Me not liking them to lose is being entitled?? Oh I forgot, it's effort that matters to all of you and trophies/ribbons for everyone! I apologize. My bad.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 05:43:05 PM
How do you know people don't have plans after the game that they had to leave right after, or even before the game was over to get to?? Not everyone can stay the entire time. And in case you didn't know this(obviously you didn't) the speeches were played on the postgame show on the radio.

LOL This is rich...who said you get to decide how fans should or shouldn't act?? We do support our team, or at least I do(can only speak for me), if expecting them to play better, be more consistent and not liking it when they lose is being entitled, then I'm guilty as charged. Puhlease.

What a pathetic response.  So 10,000+ all had pressing plans where they couldn't spare 10 minutes to listen to one the best players and people in program history share his appreciation in his last game?  Disgusting.

Screw the people who left early, boo the team, and bitch endlessly on a message board. 

In 20-30 years, when Markus still sits at the top of the MU all-time scoring list, I will not regret spending 10 minutes to hear him address the crowd at his Senior Day. 

It was a thrilling 4 years watching him light up the scoreboard.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 05:49:40 PM
I was there incredibly early..100%. Did I stay for the speeches?? No, because I had another obligation I had to get to afterwards...idk if that's okay with you or not?? I listened to them on the radio I suppose that doesn't count though??

You gfy..You have been one that has 100% demonstrated here that you are fine with losses, don't mind the mediocrity etc. That's your right, but because of that, don't try to unnatural carnal knowledgeing tell me I need to stay for speeches afterwards...I support the team in many ways. I HATE when they lose(more than you can say).

What was your "obligation"?

It was an extra 10 minutes at most. My thought is you left early like the whiny, entitled baby you are.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 05:43:05 PM

LOL This is rich...who said you get to decide how fans should or shouldn't act??

No one decided, but everyone knows they shouldn't act like you.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 05:43:05 PM
How do you know people don't have plans after the game that they had to leave right after, or even before the game was over to get to?? Not everyone can stay the entire time. And in case you didn't know this(obviously you didn't) the speeches were played on the postgame show on the radio.

LOL This is rich...who said you get to decide how fans should or shouldn't act?? We do support our team, or at least I do(can only speak for me), if expecting them to play better, be more consistent and not liking it when they lose is being entitled, then I'm guilty as charged. Puhlease.

You say fans don't care enough or make excuses whenever someone calls an opponent a tough matchup. That we don't demand excellence or care as much as you do based on some comments. That's pretty rich.

The fact of the matter is, few people care as much as we superfans do. I wouldn't expect many neutrals and fair weathered fans to stay after a downer of a game.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 05:43:05 PM
How do you know people don't have plans after the game that they had to leave right after, or even before the game was over to get to?? Not everyone can stay the entire time. And in case you didn't know this(obviously you didn't) the speeches were played on the postgame show on the radio.

LOL This is rich...who said you get to decide how fans should or shouldn't act?? We do support our team, or at least I do(can only speak for me), if expecting them to play better, be more consistent and not liking it when they lose is being entitled, then I'm guilty as charged. Puhlease.

Undoubtedly some people had other commitments they had to get to. Fine. I get it. I strongly suspect not 80% of the crowd had places they had to be mid-afternoon on a Saturday, which is about what left. Those, like you apparently, that left because they didn't like the performance despite not having another commitment you had to get to....totally your right.  You are also a soft as hell fair weather fan. The young men wearing the jersey deserve better. Nobody said I get to decide. It's true though.

Oh for the love of god, this narrative about our "arsehole" fans is bullshat, bullshat, bullshat.  I'm not sure how it caught on.  The team is mediocre and Wojo's biggest supporters can't blame him, so I guess it's the fault of the fan base.

The game was packed today, and the crowd was *desperate* for a chance to get rowdy.  Got super loud when MU cut it to five in the first half, and then SH got two stops, hit two threes, and shut everybody up.  Hell, every time MU cut it to 14 or so in the second half, the crowd got back into it.  Unfortunately, when you're losing by as many as 24 points in the second half, it's hard to get hot enough to overcome that deficit.  But the fans were to down to get loud.

And I don't blame people for leaving early.  MU spent the whole afternoon getting their asses kicked.  Some people have a long ride home and other stuff to do with their day.  But if Marquette had actually been competitive, I guarantee you everyone would have stayed.  Maybe not for the senior day speeches, but they would've been there till the final buzzer.  But hey, two clowns out of 18,000 heckled Markus' parents and got kicked out, so I guess every single one of our fans sucks and that's why we're 8-8 in conference and have lost 4 of our last 5. 

Quote from: 94Warrior on February 29, 2020, 05:52:52 PM
Screw the people who left early, boo the team, and bitch endlessly on a message board. 

In 20-30 years, when Markus still sits at the top of the MU all-time scoring list, I will not regret spending 10 minutes to hear him address the crowd at his Senior Day. 

It was a thrilling 4 years watching him light up the scoreboard.

Amen, 94!

Quote from: Silent Verbal on February 29, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Oh for the love of god, this narrative about our "arsehole" fans is bullshat, bullshat, bullshat.  I'm not sure how it caught on.  The team is mediocre and Wojo's biggest supporters can't blame him, so I guess it's the fault of the fan base.

The game was packed today, and the crowd was *desperate* for a chance to get rowdy.  Got super loud when MU cut it to five in the first half, and then SH got two stops, hit two threes, and shut everybody up.  Hell, every time MU cut it to 14 or so in the second half, the crowd got back into it.  Unfortunately, when you're losing by as many as 24 points in the second half, it's hard to get hot enough to overcome that deficit.  But the fans were to down to get loud.

And I don't blame people for leaving early.  MU spent the whole afternoon getting their asses kicked.  Some people have a long ride home and other stuff to do with their day.  But if Marquette had actually been competitive, I guarantee you everyone would have stayed.  Maybe not for the senior day speeches, but they would've been there till the final buzzer.  But hey, two clowns out of 18,000 heckled Markus' parents and got kicked out, so I guess every single one of our fans sucks and that's why we're 8-8 in conference and have lost 4 of our last 5.

RT... made an attempt multiple times left with deaf ears.

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 29, 2020, 05:53:41 PM
What was your "obligation"?

It was an extra 10 minutes at most. My thought is you left early like the whiny, entitled baby you are.

Okay whatever you say...weren't you the same guy that a year or so ago, couldn't attend a game or watch it on TV or something because you had bought tickets to see the blue men?? Are you fucking kidding me?? I have been a season ticket holder for 18 years.. driven an hour one way for 18 years in some shitty weather to support the team. I have donated money, I have bought thousands of dollars worth of MU gear through the years..and you know what?? Unlike you I do NOT like it when they lose. I'm not one to shrug my shoulders after a loss like you do and go "oh well, on to the next one". No big deal.

If you didn't read what i said...I listened to the speeches on the way home...I guess that's not good enough for you.

Quote from: 94Warrior on February 29, 2020, 05:52:52 PM
Screw the people who left early, boo the team, and bitch endlessly on a message board. 

In 20-30 years, when Markus still sits at the top of the MU all-time scoring list, I will not regret spending 10 minutes to hear him address the crowd at his Senior Day. 

It was a thrilling 4 years watching him light up the scoreboard.

Totally agree. I wish I could have been there in person, but was happy that someone posted the video of the speeches in another thread.

We Are Marquette!

Quote from: StillWarriors on February 29, 2020, 05:55:28 PM

Undoubtedly some people had other commitments they had to get to. Fine. I get it. I strongly suspect not 80% of the crowd had places they had to be mid-afternoon on a Saturday, which is about what left. Those, like you apparently, that left because they didn't like the performance despite not having another commitment you had to get to....totally your right.  You are also a soft as hell fair weather fan. The young men wearing the jersey deserve better. Nobody said I get to decide. It's true though.

This is simply a yes or no question..no other commentary is wanted/needed. Were you impressed or okay with them being down 24 points at one point today?? Again a simple yes or no question.

Quote from: Silent Verbal on February 29, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Oh for the love of god, this narrative about our "arsehole" fans is bullshat, bullshat, bullshat.  I'm not sure how it caught on.  The team is mediocre and Wojo's biggest supporters can't blame him, so I guess it's the fault of the fan base.

The game was packed today, and the crowd was *desperate* for a chance to get rowdy.  Got super loud when MU cut it to five in the first half, and then SH got two stops, hit two threes, and shut everybody up.  Hell, every time MU cut it to 14 or so in the second half, the crowd got back into it.  Unfortunately, when you're losing by as many as 24 points in the second half, it's hard to get hot enough to overcome that deficit.  But the fans were to down to get loud.

And I don't blame people for leaving early.  MU spent the whole afternoon getting their asses kicked.  Some people have a long ride home and other stuff to do with their day.  But if Marquette had actually been competitive, I guarantee you everyone would have stayed.  Maybe not for the senior day speeches, but they would've been there till the final buzzer.  But hey, two clowns out of 18,000 heckled Markus' parents and got kicked out, so I guess every single one of our fans sucks and that's why we're 8-8 in conference and have lost 4 of our last 5.

Lol. Self awareness is clearly not a strength of yours.

Quote from: Silent Verbal on February 29, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Oh for the love of god, this narrative about our "arsehole" fans is bullshat, bullshat, bullshat.  I'm not sure how it caught on.  The team is mediocre and Wojo's biggest supporters can't blame him, so I guess it's the fault of the fan base.

The game was packed today, and the crowd was *desperate* for a chance to get rowdy.  Got super loud when MU cut it to five in the first half, and then SH got two stops, hit two threes, and shut everybody up.  Hell, every time MU cut it to 14 or so in the second half, the crowd got back into it.  Unfortunately, when you're losing by as many as 24 points in the second half, it's hard to get hot enough to overcome that deficit.  But the fans were to down to get loud.

And I don't blame people for leaving early.  MU spent the whole afternoon getting their asses kicked.  Some people have a long ride home and other stuff to do with their day.  But if Marquette had actually been competitive, I guarantee you everyone would have stayed.  Maybe not for the senior day speeches, but they would've been there till the final buzzer.  But hey, two clowns out of 18,000 heckled Markus' parents and got kicked out, so I guess every single one of our fans sucks and that's why we're 8-8 in conference and have lost 4 of our last 5.

Silent Verbal just hit a grand slam homerun with this post...even though you're going to get blasted by the "everyone gets a trophy" crowd that you're an entitled whiny baby because you didn't like them being down 24 today. How dare you not like that!

You're damn right the crowd was amped up and looking for every chance they could to get rowdy and get behind the team..but on their own home floor, they started slow in each half(again...it's like a broken record) and took all the wind out of the sails and in turn buried themselves. I guess no one is worried about that though.

Quote from: Silent Verbal on February 29, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Oh for the love of god, this narrative about our "arsehole" fans is bullshat, bullshat, bullshat.  I'm not sure how it caught on.  The team is mediocre and Wojo's biggest supporters can't blame him, so I guess it's the fault of the fan base.

The game was packed today, and the crowd was *desperate* for a chance to get rowdy.  Got super loud when MU cut it to five in the first half, and then SH got two stops, hit two threes, and shut everybody up.  Hell, every time MU cut it to 14 or so in the second half, the crowd got back into it.  Unfortunately, when you're losing by as many as 24 points in the second half, it's hard to get hot enough to overcome that deficit.  But the fans were to down to get loud.

And I don't blame people for leaving early.  MU spent the whole afternoon getting their asses kicked.  Some people have a long ride home and other stuff to do with their day.  But if Marquette had actually been competitive, I guarantee you everyone would have stayed.  Maybe not for the senior day speeches, but they would've been there till the final buzzer.  But hey, two clowns out of 18,000 heckled Markus' parents and got kicked out, so I guess every single one of our fans sucks and that's why we're 8-8 in conference and have lost 4 of our last 5.

This thread has nothing to do about Wojo. This was about sticking around after the game to honor Markus.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 06:08:57 PM
This is simply a yes or no question..no other commentary is wanted/needed. Were you impressed or okay with them being down 24 points at one point today?? Again a simple yes or no question.

Not impressed. Not happy.

Never thought about leaving and not supporting players who have busted their ass for my school/team. Proud of how they have represented my school and will going forward. I am also not a soft fair weathered fan.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 06:05:42 PM
Okay whatever you say...weren't you the same guy that a year or so ago, couldn't attend a game or watch it on TV or something because you had bought tickets to see the blue men?? Are you unnatural carnal knowledgeing kidding me?? I have been a season ticket holder for 18 years.. driven an hour one way for 18 years in some crapty weather to support the team. I have donated money, I have bought thousands of dollars worth of MU gear through the years..and you know what?? Unlike you I do NOT like it when they lose. I'm not one to shrug my shoulders after a loss like you do and go "oh well, on to the next one". No big deal.

If you didn't read what i said...I listened to the speeches on the way home...I guess that's not good enough for you.

Nope. My name is a take off of Arrested Development, you clueless turd. If you had anything resembling a sense of humor you'd realize that.

Believe it or not, I have high expectations for the team and program.   I'm merely not a lunatic. This program would be better off without fans like you.

Quote from: StillWarriors on February 29, 2020, 06:16:18 PM
Not impressed. Not happy.

Never thought about leaving and not supporting players who have busted their ass for my school/team. Proud of how they have represented my school and will going forward. I am also not a soft fair weathered fan.

Nor am I, so knock it off with this...I NEVER for any reason miss a game on TV and in 18 years driving an hour one way I have missed I think 3 home games(and that damn near killed me). Far from fair weathered but also don't like losing...sorry if you do, but I don't.

Let me ask you a question...have you ever left a non conference blow out game early?? If you say no, you're a f'n liar. I guess that would make you a fair weathered fan then too, wouldn't it??

Quote from: Silent Verbal on February 29, 2020, 06:00:15 PM
Oh for the love of god, this narrative about our "arsehole" fans is bullshat, bullshat, bullshat.  I'm not sure how it caught on.  The team is mediocre and Wojo's biggest supporters can't blame him, so I guess it's the fault of the fan base.

The game was packed today, and the crowd was *desperate* for a chance to get rowdy.  Got super loud when MU cut it to five in the first half, and then SH got two stops, hit two threes, and shut everybody up.  Hell, every time MU cut it to 14 or so in the second half, the crowd got back into it.  Unfortunately, when you're losing by as many as 24 points in the second half, it's hard to get hot enough to overcome that deficit.  But the fans were to down to get loud.

And I don't blame people for leaving early.  MU spent the whole afternoon getting their asses kicked.  Some people have a long ride home and other stuff to do with their day.  But if Marquette had actually been competitive, I guarantee you everyone would have stayed.  Maybe not for the senior day speeches, but they would've been there till the final buzzer.  But hey, two clowns out of 18,000 heckled Markus' parents and got kicked out, so I guess every single one of our fans sucks and that's why we're 8-8 in conference and have lost 4 of our last 5.

Not aware of fans heckling the Howards, and if they did they are idiots. Had nothing to do with my post. I'm taking about the empty stadium 5 minutes before tip and for the seniors' speeches. I find that offensive given the effort and time these kids put into the program. I believe they care and give their best, therefore I will support them and at least give them one more butt in the seats to let them take their bows on senior day.

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 29, 2020, 06:22:57 PM
Nope. My name is a take off of Arrested Development, you clueless turd. If you had anything resembling a sense of humor you'd realize that.

Believe it or not, I have high expectations for the team and program.   I'm merely not a lunatic. This program would be better off without fans like you.

Yeah you sure do...I can just imagine what your high expectations are..stay out of trouble, graduate, give good effort every game..those are likely your "high" expectations.

This program NEEDS more fans like me actually...100% diehard. This program needs LESS fans like you...you know the one's that are okay with the mediocrity we have had for 6 years now. Then again, you aren't alone, if every fan here that shared the same feelings as you did..were eliminated this board would only have like 10-15 of us left.

THAT is where the problem with the fan base lies unfortunately.

Quote from: StillWarriors on February 29, 2020, 06:26:43 PM
Not aware of fans heckling the Howards, and if they did they are idiots. Had nothing to do with my post. I'm taking about the empty stadium 5 minutes before tip and for the seniors' speeches. I find that offensive given the effort and time these kids put into the program. I believe they care and give their best, therefore I will support them and at least give them one more butt in the seats to let them take their bows on senior day.

Now this I will agree with you on...has been a problem for as long as I have been going to games...get your god damn ass in your seat before the game starts. The amount of people that come filtering in after tip(and sometimes well after) just baffles me, especially considering a vast majority of them are  probably actually already AT Fiserv, just for whatever reason don't feel inclined to be in their seats at tip off.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 06:25:50 PM
Nor am I, so knock it off with this...I NEVER for any reason miss a game on TV and in 18 years driving an hour one way I have missed I think 3 home games(and that damn near killed me). Far from fair weathered but also don't like losing...sorry if you do, but I don't.

Let me ask you a question...have you ever left a non conference blow out game early?? If you say no, you're a f'n liar. I guess that would make you a fair weathered fan then too, wouldn't it??

Actually, no I have not. I hate missing tip and I don't leave early. Just a personal preference.

If you have been to all but 3 home games in 18 years you are not the focal point of my frustration by any means. You also said you had a commitment you had to get to. I find it frustrating that the vast majority of the student section and stadium in general left before the seniors were honored.  I don't believe for a minute that most had commitments.

I strongly suspect that guru didn't have some sort of obligation. He was just mad they were down 24 at one point.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 06:30:50 PM
Yeah you sure do...I can just imagine what your high expectations are..stay out of trouble, graduate, give good effort every game..those are likely your "high" expectations.

This program NEEDS more fans like me actually...100% diehard. This program needs LESS fans like you...you know the one's that are okay with the mediocrity we have had for 6 years now. Then again, you aren't alone, if every fan here that shared the same feelings as you did..were eliminated this board would only have like 10-15 of us left.

THAT is where the problem with the fan base lies unfortunately.

I thought earlier in this thread you called someone out for telling fans how to act. Are you the fan czar?

Quote from: StillWarriors on February 29, 2020, 06:16:18 PM
Not impressed. Not happy.

Never thought about leaving and not supporting players who have busted their ass for my school/team. Proud of how they have represented my school and will going forward. I am also not a soft fair weathered fan.

I agree. I'm not gonna knock muguru's allegiance, but he holds himself out there as someone who really understands basketball. Of course it was hard to watch, but this just in: the BigEast's best team (with only 3 league Ls and only one bad loss in conference to X) was HITTING ON ALL CYLINDERS. Guess what? So was Nova in their bandbox. Creighton is the worst matchup in conference for us. I felt we would win one of these three games. We didn't.  Just remember what Stan said earlier this year...be a poker player...things are never as bad as they seem or as good as they appear at any given moment. Last I checked, the Big East is the top rated conference by two metrics. Time for a winning streak. Scoop fans are fanatics and mostly fine. Many casual fans in our fan base lack faith...belief without evidence. We are a good team. The evidence is forthcoming. We are not the great team I felt we could be.  However, you never know when a team can gets things rolling. This is the right time to string a bunch of Ws together.

Haha!!! All of you need to get off your ethical high horse. This is a program that hasn't won't a NCAA tournament game in 6 years.  Fans want to be associates with programs who win.we didn't do that today, and to be honest weren't even competitive for the vast majority of the game.

This fan base is getting restless, end of story

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 06:30:50 PM
Yeah you sure do...I can just imagine what your high expectations are..stay out of trouble, graduate, give good effort every game..those are likely your "high" expectations.

This program NEEDS more fans like me actually...100% diehard. This program needs LESS fans like you...you know the one's that are okay with the mediocrity we have had for 6 years now. Then again, you aren't alone, if every fan here that shared the same feelings as you did..were eliminated this board would only have like 10-15 of us left.

THAT is where the problem with the fan base lies unfortunately.

You equate having high expectations with losing your mind when they're not met. Some people can deal with it in a healthy manner.

I'm in no way satisfied with the last 5 games. It's extremely disappointing. Your "fandom" is not normal and does not equate to not caring or having high expectations.

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 29, 2020, 06:45:38 PM
You equate having high expectations with losing your mind when they're not met. Some people can deal with it in a healthy manner.

I'm in no way satisfied with the last 5 games. It's extremely disappointing. Your "fandom" is not normal and does not equate to not caring or having high expectations.

Hes an extreme outlier on the fan ship spectrum. His mental health is predicated on the results of a college basketball team. It is very bizzare.

Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 29, 2020, 06:44:48 PM
Haha!!! All of you need to get off your ethical high horse. This is a program that hasn't won't a NCAA tournament game in 6 years.  Fans want to be associates with programs who win.we didn't do that today, and to be honest weren't even competitive for the vast majority of the game.

This fan base is getting restless, end of story

Can't disagree with this take.

Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 29, 2020, 06:44:48 PM
Haha!!! All of you need to get off your ethical high horse. This is a program that hasn't won't a NCAA tournament game in 6 years.  Fans want to be associates with programs who win.we didn't do that today, and to be honest weren't even competitive for the vast majority of the game.

This fan base is getting restless, end of story

And yet 3 seniors have worked their ass off to entertain you for 5, 4, and 1 year and you reward them by leaving before they can thank you for your support.

You are defining what the post was about.

Quote from: StillWarriors on February 29, 2020, 05:31:18 PM
Period.

Get to the game on time and stay to honor seniors who have busted their ass for several years. So fed up with the reactionary entitled fan base. Support your team.

I skipped my son's 6th grade basketball game to be able to see the 1:13pm ceremonies. Now YOU'RE mad I'm skipping my daughter's 4:15p game bc of some unannounced speeches I had no idea about?

OK.

Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 29, 2020, 06:44:48 PM
Haha!!! All of you need to get off your ethical high horse. This is a program that hasn't won't a NCAA tournament game in 6 years.  Fans want to be associates with programs who win.we didn't do that today, and to be honest weren't even competitive for the vast majority of the game.

This fan base is getting restless, end of story

You defined yourself as a fair-weathered fan. Fair enough. In my view, fair weathered fans are soft.

This is some ironic entitlement.....

Quote from: The Lens on February 29, 2020, 06:54:06 PM
I skipped my son's 6th grade basketball game to be able to see the 1:13pm ceremonies. Now YOU'RE mad I'm skipping my daughter's 4:15p game bc of some unannounced speeches I had no idea about?

OK.

They were announced, but no. Would never criticize for getting to your kid's game. I don't believe the vast majority of people in the stadium had conflicts. Particularly the students.

Ultimately, who am I to say that people should stay for the speeches. Because I think it is the right thing to do absent a legit commitment doesn't make it so. As a whole, I do think it says something about our fans.

Quote from: manesworld on February 29, 2020, 06:52:48 PM
And yet 3 seniors have worked their ass off to entertain you for 5, 4, and 1 year and you reward them by leaving before they can thank you for your support.

You are defining what the post was about.

As a sports fan, I don't really care if a high level athlete wants to thank me for their support.  I mean, if they wanted to thank me personally, sure, that would mean something.  But a speech after a loss during what's so far been a mediocre season?  I have better things to do with my time.  When you factor in driving to and from the game, I've already given up four hours of my afternoon.  That's enough, I think.  But hey, I'm also not the kind of guy who would attend a parade for a team that won a championship.  Those things don't really do it for me.

My relationship with high level athletes can be broken down to a simple transaction.  I pay money to watch them play.  I expect to see a good game where they play hard, but sometimes one or both of those things don't happen.  As a fan attending a game, I cheer when the team does well and, like everyone else, sit there in stunned silence when they fall behind by 24 points.  At the very minimum, my role is to not yell vile things, or throw stuff, or try to run onto the court/field.  But that's the whole transaction.

What I'm saying is, I don't owe it to a player to watch a post game speech.  I paid for my ticket, watched the game, didn't do anything vile to get myself kicked out, and left.  They played 40 minutes of basketball.  Transaction complete.  They don't care that I didn't stay.

Quote from: StillWarriors on February 29, 2020, 07:06:40 PM
They were announced, but no. Would never criticize for getting to your kid's game. I don't believe the vast majority of people in the stadium had conflicts. Particularly the students.

Ultimately, who am I to say that people should stay for the speeches. Because I think it is the right thing to do absent a legit commitment doesn't make it so. As a whole, I do think it says something about our fans.

To be fair, they didn't do a very good job. I think it was at the under 8 timeout in the second half they mentioned it. I didn't hear it during the pregame ceremony. Not everyone is on Twitter.

I left the game early. Judge away. The effort today was crap, and I didn't feel like sitting through it.

I attended all but one of Sacar and Markus' home games during their careers. So I'm content with how much I've supported them.

https://twitter.com/brewcity1977/status/1233865314875707392?s=21

Smart fans

A lot of our fans are entitled babies who I wish I weren't associated with.

However, the team gave the fans nothing to cheer about today. If people want to leave early when the team is struggling that's their right to do so. Can't blame them today.

Quote from: Silent Verbal on February 29, 2020, 07:22:49 PM
As a sports fan, I don't really care if a high level athlete wants to thank me for their support.  I mean, if they wanted to thank me personally, sure, that would mean something.  But a speech after a loss during what's so far been a mediocre season?  I have better things to do with my time.  When you factor in driving to and from the game, I've already given up four hours of my afternoon.  That's enough, I think.  But hey, I'm also not the kind of guy who would attend a parade for a team that won a championship.  Those things don't really do it for me.

My relationship with high level athletes can be broken down to a simple transaction.  I pay money to watch them play.  I expect to see a good game where they play hard, but sometimes one or both of those things don't happen.  As a fan attending a game, I cheer when the team does well and, like everyone else, sit there in stunned silence when they fall behind by 24 points.  At the very minimum, my role is to not yell vile things, or throw stuff, or try to run onto the court/field.  But that's the whole transaction.

What I'm saying is, I don't owe it to a player to watch a post game speech.  I paid for my ticket, watched the game, didn't do anything vile to get myself kicked out, and left.  They played 40 minutes of basketball.  Transaction complete.  They don't care that I didn't stay.

Right. That's all great. You are entitled MU fan. The fan base in general is. That's the point. You nailed it.

BM1090

What are you talking about? Who is entitled? Folks that have supported the program for decades as a fan a financially probably have a different take than than others. IMO, not much to get excited about in regards to this program.

Some do, I've been a horrible fan last few years, expecting too much I guess.....last three years I've yelled way too much at kids trying to play ball :(

fans leave early when the program sucks...can't believe people are even surprised about that fact????

So Wojo's a "dick" for not subbing Markus our to get a standing O, but it's cool that fans left early and wouldn't have been around to give the standing O anyway huh? And they couldn't bother to stick around for his celebration and give him a standing O there?

Got it.

Quote from: Goose on February 29, 2020, 07:42:02 PM
BM1090

What are you talking about? Who is entitled? Folks that have supported the program for decades as a fan a financially probably have a different take than than others. IMO, not much to get excited about in regards to this program.

Yep.

Quote from: Goose on February 29, 2020, 07:42:02 PM
BM1090

What are you talking about? Who is entitled? Folks that have supported the program for decades as a fan a financially probably have a different take than than others. IMO, not much to get excited about in regards to this program.

Completely missed the point.

Quote from: Goose on February 29, 2020, 07:42:02 PM
BM1090

What are you talking about? Who is entitled? Folks that have supported the program for decades as a fan a financially probably have a different take than than others. IMO, not much to get excited about in regards to this program.

I wasn't referring to you nor people who have supported the program for decades financially. Not sure why you assumed that. There were plenty of people at the game today talking about how Markus shoots too much and they'll be happy when he's gone. I'm embarrassed to be associated with them, among others.

I specifically said I don't blame people for being frustrated and leaving early because the team gave them nothing to cheer about. I do blame people who are uniformed, whiny and vocal.

Calling out fans as entitled because they expect better of the team/program is the epitome of "loser mentality".  I wish I grew up playing sports against some of the mental midgets on this board.  It would have been a lot of fun getting in your heads while competing against you.

The fact that our program has been surpassed by teams like Seton Hall and Providence should be troubling (hint...they were the doormats of the old big east).  Yet   some fans don't blink an eye and attack others on this board for speaking out. 

At the end of the day, whether you like Wojo or not, the program
is not at the level Crean and Buzz had it at.  And they had success in a top to bottom tougher Big East conference.

Quote from: manesworld on February 29, 2020, 06:52:48 PM
And yet 3 seniors have worked their ass off to entertain you for 5, 4, and 1 year and you reward them by leaving before they can thank you for your support.

You are defining what the post was about.

Let's get them some participation medals!

Don't know what it contributes to the discussion, but I've been cognizant of what the game attendees have posted. A lot of your comments are not germane to the many posters who are out of town and cannot attend games.

When I was in Milwaukee, I begged, stole and borrowed ways to get to games, including switching nights on call, etc. I did not often come out on the winning  side of my call switches.

If I had the luxury of attending MU games now, I would be completely ashamed  of myself if I did not give total respect and appreciation to players who have worked their asses off to represent MU in the best west way they could.

Here's wishing the best for Jayce, Sacar, and Markus.

Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 29, 2020, 08:15:49 PM
Let's get them some participation medals!

Sure.

Quote from: DiaperDandy on February 29, 2020, 08:13:59 PM
Calling out fans as entitled because they expect better of the team/program is the epitome of "loser mentality".  I wish I grew up playing sports against some of the mental midgets on this board.  It would have been a lot of fun getting in your heads while competing against you.

The fact that our program has been surpassed by teams like Seton Hall and Providence should be troubling (hint...they were the doormats of the old big east).  Yet   some fans don't blink an eye and attack others on this board for speaking out. 

At the end of the day, whether you like Wojo or not, the program
is not at the level Crean and Buzz had it at.  And they had success in a top to bottom tougher Big East conference.

Wojo better than Willard at similar points of careers, but okay.

Quote from: StillWarriors on February 29, 2020, 07:06:40 PM
They were announced, but no. Would never criticize for getting to your kid's game. I don't believe the vast majority of people in the stadium had conflicts. Particularly the students.

Ultimately, who am I to say that people should stay for the speeches. Because I think it is the right thing to do absent a legit commitment doesn't make it so. As a whole, I do think it says something about our fans.

I don't remember ever being part of a packed house Senior Day ceremony. Tack on the effect of a loss, and you're just not going to have many people stick around. I don't really think that says that much about our fans. It's just not a big deal to most people. *shrugs*

Quote from: skianth16 on February 29, 2020, 08:59:44 PM
I don't remember ever being part of a packed house Senior Day ceremony. Tack on the effect of a loss, and you're just not going to have many people stick around. I don't really think that says that much about our fans. It's just not a big deal to most people. *shrugs*

Right. And I'm not sure why it should be.

I was a season ticket holder for many years. 18 or so times a year I drove 150 miles round trip to support the team. When seniors were honored  before the game I made sure to arrive early. When the ceremony was post game I stayed late. My preference. My choice. Never once did I sit in judgement of my fellow Marquette fans who couldn't arrive early/stay late or just didn't want to. These internecine battles over who is and who isn't a "good fan" are pathetic and pointless. It's "We are Marquette" not "We are Marquette and you're not". Talk about entitled. Pot meet kettle.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2020, 09:12:41 PM
I was a season ticket holder for many years. 18 or so times a year I drove 150 miles round trip to support the team. When seniors were honored  before the game I made sure to arrive early. When the ceremony was post game I stayed late. My preference. My choice. Never once did I sit in judgement of my fellow Marquette fans who couldn't arrive early/stay late or just didn't want to. These internecine battles over who is and who isn't a "good fan" are pathetic and pointless. It's "We are Marquette" not "We are Marquette and you're not". Talk about entitled. Pot meet kettle.

Preach!!!

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2020, 09:12:41 PM
I was a season ticket holder for many years. 18 or so times a year I drove 150 miles round trip to support the team. When seniors were honored  before the game I made sure to arrive early. When the ceremony was post game I stayed late. My preference. My choice. Never once did I sit in judgement of my fellow Marquette fans who couldn't arrive early/stay late or just didn't want to. These internecine battles over who is and who isn't a "good fan" are pathetic and pointless. It's "We are Marquette" not "We are Marquette and you're not". Talk about entitled. Pot meet kettle.

Yep.

Quote from: DiaperDandy on February 29, 2020, 08:13:59 PM
Calling out fans as entitled because they expect better of the team/program is the epitome of "loser mentality".  I wish I grew up playing sports against some of the mental midgets on this board.  It would have been a lot of fun getting in your heads while competing against you.

The fact that our program has been surpassed by teams like Seton Hall and Providence should be troubling (hint...they were the doormats of the old big east).  Yet   some fans don't blink an eye and attack others on this board for speaking out. 

At the end of the day, whether you like Wojo or not, the program
is not at the level Crean and Buzz had it at.  And they had success in a top to bottom tougher Big East conference.

Truth.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2020, 09:12:41 PM
I was a season ticket holder for many years. 18 or so times a year I drove 150 miles round trip to support the team. When seniors were honored  before the game I made sure to arrive early. When the ceremony was post game I stayed late. My preference. My choice. Never once did I sit in judgement of my fellow Marquette fans who couldn't arrive early/stay late or just didn't want to. These internecine battles over who is and who isn't a "good fan" are pathetic and pointless. It's "We are Marquette" not "We are Marquette and you're not". Talk about entitled. Pot meet kettle.

Truth.

Quote from: Retire0 on February 29, 2020, 08:53:25 PM
Wojo better than Willard at similar points of careers, but okay.

Care to share with the board what the Seton Hall program accomplished from year 2000 until Willard took over?  It's foolish to even raise the point. Hell, Hall hadn't been relevant since 1990 with PJ Carilesmo.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2020, 09:12:41 PM
I was a season ticket holder for many years. 18 or so times a year I drove 150 miles round trip to support the team. When seniors were honored  before the game I made sure to arrive early. When the ceremony was post game I stayed late. My preference. My choice. Never once did I sit in judgement of my fellow Marquette fans who couldn't arrive early/stay late or just didn't want to. These internecine battles over who is and who isn't a "good fan" are pathetic and pointless. It's "We are Marquette" not "We are Marquette and you're not". Talk about entitled. Pot meet kettle.

Agree 100%. As long as you are not booing the players, do whatyawant.

OK, there are so many issues in this debate that are tangential to Senior Day that I lost count. Let me take a swipe at this one and hope we bring some clarity.

1) My support and admiration for Markus Howard, Sacar Anim and Jayce Johnson is not defined based on whether I was in attendance for a 15 minute post-game speech. It's defined by the number of times I showed up at the Computing Castle and the Bradley Center to cheer these guys on. Or how many times I cleared my schedule so I could watch them on television. Or how strongly I loved MU basketball before they got here and after they left.

2) Markus is clearly among the best players ever for us. He has been a joy to watch (and I'll probably see him Tuesday) and we will miss him. He represents the concept of "Men for Others" well and by all measures is a personification of what Marquette is about. Not sure how many other people I can say that about, but Markus fits the bill. His parents should take exceptional pride not just in him as a player but as a man.

3) We played a crappy game today. While it should have no bearing on how we feel about Sacar, Markus and Jayce, you can't get away from the fact that of the teams ahead of us in the Big East (Villanova, Creighton, Seton Hall), we're 1-5 against them. If our team improved and played as hard as Markus did every game, we'd have beaten Seton Hall. I'd probably have stuck around if I was not on the Treasure Coast, but I was in Florida and so I missed the game.

4) We are Marquette. Which means we need to let these guys know we love 'em and we're honored to have had 'em. We expect them to do well in their next stop in life and thereafter.

Quote from: Retire0 on February 29, 2020, 08:53:25 PM
Wojo better than Willard at similar points of careers, but okay.

Wojo took over a Program that was coming off a sustained run of making the NCAA tournament 8 straight years before buzz's last season not to mention an administration that heavily funded our basketball program.  Marquette was an upper echelon team in a juggernaut conference.

Willard took over for a disgraced coach in Bobby Gonzalez.  Seton Hall made tournament a grand total of 3 times from 1994 (post pj) until Willard took over in 2010.  The fact that Willard has gotten them into the tourney 4 times in his tenure there is amazing considering their lack of basketball success since pj left.

Also, Willard won the big east tourney and upset nova in 2016 (his 6th year).  Do you honestly think Wojo is going to pull that off this year?

The fact that we are even comparing Wojo to Willard over their first 6 years is embarrassing.  Willard vastly overachieved and Wojo imo has underachieved.

Quote from: Goose on February 29, 2020, 07:42:02 PM
BM1090

What are you talking about? Who is entitled? Folks that have supported the program for decades as a fan a financially probably have a different take than than others. IMO, not much to get excited about in regards to this program.

Mother Goose,

You and I have given Marquette a significant amount of money over the years. I dare say that frames what constitutes a definitive supporter of the program.

Sadly, our financial support is on hold until we see better results which is, of course, our right.

I would hazard to say many questioning loyalty to the program have not given so much as a six pack's worth of cash to Marquette. I find the irony in that is rather delicious.

I love when the meat eating lovers go into their rants about how charitable they are. There is nothing better than letting everyone know how much money you donate.

Quote from: keefe on February 29, 2020, 10:03:31 PM
Mother Goose,

You and I have given Marquette a significant amount of money over the years. I dare say that frames what constitutes a definitive supporter of the program.

Sadly, our financial support is on hold until we see better results which is, of course, our right.

I would hazard to say many questioning loyalty to the program have not given so much as a six pack's worth of cash to Marquette. I find the irony in that is rather delicious.

What a douche.

I find the hubris rather galling. It's akin to the guest of a country club member complaining that his complimentary Dom Perignon isn't chilled to his precise demanding specifications.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2020, 09:12:41 PM
I was a season ticket holder for many years. 18 or so times a year I drove 150 miles round trip to support the team. When seniors were honored  before the game I made sure to arrive early. When the ceremony was post game I stayed late. My preference. My choice. Never once did I sit in judgement of my fellow Marquette fans who couldn't arrive early/stay late or just didn't want to. These internecine battles over who is and who isn't a "good fan" are pathetic and pointless. It's "We are Marquette" not "We are Marquette and you're not". Talk about entitled. Pot meet kettle.

Well said.  It's not a surprise to see that the venn diagram of 'people who defend Wojo at every turn' and ' people who constantly whine about the fans' is a full circle.

Quote from: Small Orange Soda on February 29, 2020, 10:20:48 PM
Well said.  It's not a surprise to see that the venn diagram of 'people who defend Wojo at every turn' and ' people who constantly whine about the fans' is a full circle.

Aren't they ones who have their wallets welded to their asscheeks when it's time to pony up for the University or the Basketball team?

And with regard to Lenny, the man speaks with a wisdom which conveys considerable insight. 

Like Mr Bernstein I would stay out of respect to the kids and their families. As an Air Force Colonel I appreciate tradition and recognition. And like Lenny I would not pass judgment on those who choose to leave. Live and let live.

Quote from: manesworld on February 29, 2020, 10:05:38 PM
I love when the meat eating lovers go into their rants about how charitable they are. There is nothing better than letting everyone know how much money you donate.

Without the money you are DePaul. That's the way it goes, like it or not.

Quote from: 79Warrior on March 01, 2020, 12:22:12 AM
Without the money you are DePaul. That's the way it goes, like it or not.

Yeah. Like I said, nothing better than letting anonymous people on the internet know you donate a lot of money.

Thank you for your service Keefer, Goose, and Badreporter.

6 years in and this team is fighting for 5th in a 10 team conference with an First team All-American.    Let that sink in.

Quote from: PointWarrior on March 01, 2020, 12:45:30 AM
6 years in and this team is fighting for 5th in a 10 team conference with an First team All-American.    Let that sink in.

Coming off of a 2nd place finish in a 10 team conference. What's your point?

Manes

I have never said anything about my financial support of the program or university. Not exactly sure why you and others feel a need to group people on here.

Quote from: manesworld on March 01, 2020, 12:56:39 AM
Coming off of a 2nd place finish in a 10 team conference. What's your point?

Ummm.... we should have won the conference last year, so what's your point?

Quote from: PointWarrior on March 01, 2020, 12:45:30 AM
6 years in and this team is fighting for 5th in a 10 team conference with an First team All-American.    Let that sink in.

Let's drown our sorrows this week. Miller's Guild on 6th & Stewart for Happy Hour. Pick the day.

All I see in this thread is a bunch of people proving the original poster's point that our fans do suck. "They aren't good so we don't stay." That's the definition of a fair weather fan.

And to the fans chanting "fire Wojo" in the middle of the game, explain to me how that helps our program?  We want to drive recruits away? 

Our fan base is a bunch of f*cking idiots.

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 01, 2020, 04:50:48 AM
All I see in this thread is a bunch of people proving the original poster's point that our fans do suck. "They aren't good so we don't stay." That's the definition of a fair weather fan.

And to the fans chanting "fire Wojo" in the middle of the game, explain to me how that helps our program?  We want to drive recruits away? 

Our fan base is a bunch of f*cking idiots.

How it could help the program?  By getting a coach who will be better in the long run, and not be too concerned about the short term ramifications.

Not that I think chanting it was appropriate, but I can most definitely understand how replacing Wojo can benefit the program.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2020, 09:12:41 PM
I was a season ticket holder for many years. 18 or so times a year I drove 150 miles round trip to support the team. When seniors were honored  before the game I made sure to arrive early. When the ceremony was post game I stayed late. My preference. My choice. Never once did I sit in judgement of my fellow Marquette fans who couldn't arrive early/stay late or just didn't want to. These internecine battles over who is and who isn't a "good fan" are pathetic and pointless. It's "We are Marquette" not "We are Marquette and you're not". Talk about entitled. Pot meet kettle.

This whole "Marquette has an entitled fanbase of unrealistic, ungrateful people" narrative taking over this board the last couple weeks is the most ridiculous nonsense of all narratives to take over this board. And there have been some doozies.

Quote from: PointWarrior on March 01, 2020, 12:45:30 AM
6 years in and this team is fighting for 5th in a 10 team conference with an First team All-American.    Let that sink in.

Agreed. But it won't sink in with that crowd. Their typical attitude and response is that you are a whiny entitled douche, poor fan, jerk etc. Blame others, call them names  challenge their fandom, etc. Likely 95 plus percent who post here are fans, but there certainly is diversity in what as a fan must be accepted. If a fan expects to see MU winning 20 plus games, compete for conference titles, win games in the BEast tourney and make runs in the dance, they should just shut up about it and not criticize the "upward trajectory Wojo has us on" If you do, then the name calling begins.
What is really funny is the increased volume from the name callers on this board. Could it be that some may not be real happy about the product after 6 years?
As that great philosopher, Rodney King once opined, Cant we all just get along?
Or even better, grab the popcorn because there is more to come. Hope we win next 2 against the cellar of BEast so we can defend another middle of the pack season.
Wonder what will explode if we lose to DePaul.

Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 01, 2020, 04:50:48 AM
All I see in this thread is a bunch of people proving the original poster's point that our fans do suck. "They aren't good so we don't stay." That's the definition of a fair weather fan.

And to the fans chanting "fire Wojo" in the middle of the game, explain to me how that helps our program?  We want to drive recruits away? 

Our fan base is a bunch of f*cking idiots.

I have said numerous times I don't condone the booing...however, playing devil's advocate here, doesn't that say something to you?? Sure the fans are idiots..but..that being said doesn't it say to you that maybe, just maybe the program should be in a better place then it is currently, and thus you wouldn't have people booing the Coach?? Novel concept, I know. I don't ever remember people chanting Fire Crean or fire buzz the way they have with Wojo. What does that say to you??

The problem with all this nonsense about the fan base is that people are leaving out an important aspect...that, for the most part, our fan base knows what a well coached team looks like. Under Wojo, we have yet to see it.

For as accomplished Howard is as a scorer, he's not well coached. He's a scoring novelty act to the detriment of team success. Go ahead and cite our record when he scores 30 points, blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is and has been for two years, that the rest of the team suffers as he dominates the ball, shot attempts and attention. Don't @ me with some sabermetric bullsh*t either. It's why the Hausers left. When a guy is taking 25
Shots a game and you find yourself  with the basketball, if affects your decision making. It has affected the development of guys like Bailey, Cain, Elliott. I think it was beginning to affect Sam's decision making and Joey, obviously, was sick and tired of it.

Say what you want about Howard as a person. I'm sure he's a wonderful guy. He is not and never has been a team basketball player. It's not his game. For all you Howard defenders, I found it interesting that you thought his game vs Georgetown was his "masterpiece." Maybe so. But why not his 50+ vs USC at Thanksgiving? Is it because he exploded for 7 assists? If that's the case, shouldn't you be mentioning that he had exactly zero assists at halftime yesterday?

When the university is practically begging people to appreciate a kid who scores like he does there is something rotten in Denmark.

Marquette has a proud tradition and for him to be as polarizing as he clearly is speaks volumes.

Don't believe me? Listen to the FS1 studio analysts. They're beating us over the head with it every game. "Get teammates involved" seems to be a recurring theme.

For whatever reason, Wojo refuses to see the issue with this team. It is glaring and that's why the "note" was written. Those boys were begging for him to coach the team. Letting Howard run wild has been the easy way out and Wojo has chosen that path.

I will also say student booing of the coach seems a little unusual. Has it occurred to anybody that the students doing the booing may actually be booing as a result of conversations with players...their fellow students? Who interacts with the team more than the students? Wagging your fingers at these kids is ridiculous.

If we took a step or two back if Wojo left, I'd be fine with it. What we are watching isn't an enjoyable product. Like I said, it's a novelty act. NCAA or not, give me a team that works together over what we are watching.

Guru
I noted last week that I did not remember the students being this negative since Dukiet era. I have no idea on how many students are frustrated, possibly a very small segment, but it is something I can remember occurring in quite some time.

One question, isn't our fan base roughly from the same from the NIT year that was prandin send on here for a couple of weeks? I guess they were great, but now suck.

PRN

Spot on from word one. Well done.

PRN has been overly harsh on Markus, but he is right here.  The problem I have with Wojo is that he rides his alpha players to a point where it is a detriment to the team.  It started with Henry, and now continues with Markus.  And will likely continue with Dawson in the future.  It oftentimes works well, but when it doesn't, results in a stagnant offense and way too many turnovers.

Quote from: Goose on March 01, 2020, 06:58:06 AM
PRN

Spot on from word one. Well done.

Goose, I am surprised you are in lockstep with a guy who believes Markus is a "cancer" - his word - but is now saying, "I'm sure he is a wonderful guy." The latter is something he clearly does not believe, given that "a cancer," by definition, is not a "wonderful guy."

Here, the Scooper you are saying is "spot on" is trying to have it both ways. He knows that if he came out and called Markus a cancer again, his entire post would be summarily dismissed by anybody with an ounce of decency.

Markus is not a perfect basketball player. Like every other player ever, he has flaws. And Wojo certainly could have done a better job coaching him - and every other Warrior under his charge. Although I generally have supported Wojo and have truly appreciated Markus, there have been many times over these past couple of seasons that I have shouted at the TV: "So-and-so is open - pass the ball, Markus!" It's similar to what many folks said about a 25-year-old Michael Jordan. (Note: I am NOT comparing Markus to Michael, except for the fact that both had/have the "gunner gene.")

Having said all that ...

Markus has been nothing but a tremendous representative of our university. For 4 years now, I have been watching him, reading articles about him, hearing coaches and other professional basketball observers talk about him, and reading about him on this board, and nobody has provided a shred of evidence to the contrary.

Anybody who booed him on Senior Day or hassled his family last night is not just a loser; he or she is the lowest scum on the earth.

Finally, I'm not a fan of threads like this because I don't like generalizations. Obviously, all of our fans don't "suck." I also dislike the generalizations many Projos make about Nojos, and vice versa.

Have a nice day, my friend. We are Marquette!

82

My point on Howard has always gone back to Wojo. I think if Howard was 20 ppg guy on a successful team he would have been loved by all. Sadly, he has become the whipping boy due to a flawed system. Wojo has build his program based off on having a gunner and it has not worked in my opinion.

It started with Carlino, who was bashed on here early and hard, and has continued Year in year out. I think that more and more folks are tired of watching that type of ball and I am in the camp.

As for Howard, I am happy he played at MU and wish he would have had more team success. You are correct, he has been an outstanding representative for MU. Anyone that booed him or his family are jag offs. While, I have not enjoyed every moment of his career, I would have given him a standing ovation for a career well done.

Quote from: MU82 on March 01, 2020, 07:31:10 AM
Goose, I am surprised you are in lockstep with a guy who believes Markus is a "cancer" - his word - but is now saying, "I'm sure he is a wonderful guy." The latter is something he clearly does not believe, given that "a cancer," by definition, is not a "wonderful guy."

Here, the Scooper you are saying is "spot on" is trying to have it both ways. He knows that if he came out and called Markus a cancer again, his entire post would be summarily dismissed by anybody with an ounce of decency.

Markus is not a perfect basketball player. Like every other player ever, he has flaws. And Wojo certainly could have done a better job coaching him - and every other Warrior under his charge. Although I generally have supported Wojo and have truly appreciated Markus, there have been many times over these past couple of seasons that I have shouted at the TV: "So-and-so is open - pass the ball, Markus!" It's similar to what many folks said about a 25-year-old Michael Jordan. (Note: I am NOT comparing Markus to Michael, except for the fact that both had/have the "gunner gene.")

Having said all that ...

Markus has been nothing but a tremendous representative of our university. For 4 years now, I have been watching him, reading articles about him, hearing coaches and other professional basketball observers talk about him, and reading about him on this board, and nobody has provided a shred of evidence to the contrary.

Anybody who booed him on Senior Day or hassled his family last night is not just a loser; he or she is the lowest scum on the earth.

Finally, I'm not a fan of threads like this because I don't like generalizations. Obviously, all of our fans don't "suck." I also dislike the generalizations many Projos make about Nojos, and vice versa.

Have a nice day, my friend. We are Marquette!

Do you believe in the concept of a team cancer? If so, how would you define it?

Get a point guard and the system works better on offense.Unfortunately Markus was never able to play with a true one.The offense is so much better when Koby is not at the point.He does not know how to get others involved.The ball moves so much better when Symir is in game.Hopefully he is the answer next year.Still need to bring in another player that is capable to play the point in the spring otherwise if Symir goes down the season is over.

Quote from: muguru on February 29, 2020, 05:49:40 PM
I was there incredibly early..100%. Did I stay for the speeches?? No, because I had another obligation I had to get to afterwards...idk if that's okay with you or not?? I listened to them on the radio I suppose that doesn't count though??

You gfy..You have been one that has 100% demonstrated here that you are fine with losses, don't mind the mediocrity etc. That's your right, but because of that, don't try to unnatural carnal knowledgeing tell me I need to stay for speeches afterwards...I support the team in many ways. I HATE when they lose(more than you can say).

Would you have stayed if the game went to OT...or would you have had the same obligation?..would have been about the same time that you would have left the building.

Quote from: MU82 on March 01, 2020, 07:31:10 AM
Goose, I am surprised you are in lockstep with a guy who believes Markus is a "cancer" - his word - but is now saying, "I'm sure he is a wonderful guy." The latter is something he clearly does not believe, given that "a cancer," by definition, is not a "wonderful guy."

Here, the Scooper you are saying is "spot on" is trying to have it both ways. He knows that if he came out and called Markus a cancer again, his entire post would be summarily dismissed by anybody with an ounce of decency.

Markus is not a perfect basketball player. Like every other player ever, he has flaws. And Wojo certainly could have done a better job coaching him - and every other Warrior under his charge. Although I generally have supported Wojo and have truly appreciated Markus, there have been many times over these past couple of seasons that I have shouted at the TV: "So-and-so is open - pass the ball, Markus!" It's similar to what many folks said about a 25-year-old Michael Jordan. (Note: I am NOT comparing Markus to Michael, except for the fact that both had/have the "gunner gene.")

Having said all that ...

Markus has been nothing but a tremendous representative of our university. For 4 years now, I have been watching him, reading articles about him, hearing coaches and other professional basketball observers talk about him, and reading about him on this board, and nobody has provided a shred of evidence to the contrary.

Anybody who booed him on Senior Day or hassled his family last night is not just a loser; he or she is the lowest scum on the earth.

Finally, I'm not a fan of threads like this because I don't like generalizations. Obviously, all of our fans don't "suck." I also dislike the generalizations many Projos make about Nojos, and vice versa.

Have a nice day, my friend. We are Marquette!

It is important to make the distinction between MH the basketball player and MH the human. Criticizing his play, the way he was used and the impact to the team is fair game. PRN is dead on in that respect. Booing a kid like MH is despicable to me because it hurts MH the human. I never Boo the teams I support, I hate it when people do.

My blame goes on Wojo. He did MH and the team a disservice. Giving full reign to a talent like Howard is not good coaching. Using him in a team concept would have been better. That has played out this year. The team and Howard look so much better when Howard doesn't force it and gets others involved.

A "true PG" wouldn't make a difference on this team.

By the way, the concept of a "great representative of Marquette" is absolute garbage nonsense. What the hell does it mean? Doc Rivers is a good guy. Dwyane Wade, Wesley, Matt Heldt, Mcilvaine, Bob Jackson, Davante...whoever....all seem like good guys. That has zero to do with Marquette. It's bizarre to even discuss this crap.

Quote from: MU82 on March 01, 2020, 07:31:10 AM
Goose, I am surprised you are in lockstep with a guy who believes Markus is a "cancer" - his word - but is now saying, "I'm sure he is a wonderful guy." The latter is something he clearly does not believe, given that "a cancer," by definition, is not a "wonderful guy."

Here, the Scooper you are saying is "spot on" is trying to have it both ways. He knows that if he came out and called Markus a cancer again, his entire post would be summarily dismissed by anybody with an ounce of decency.

Markus is not a perfect basketball player. Like every other player ever, he has flaws. And Wojo certainly could have done a better job coaching him - and every other Warrior under his charge. Although I generally have supported Wojo and have truly appreciated Markus, there have been many times over these past couple of seasons that I have shouted at the TV: "So-and-so is open - pass the ball, Markus!" It's similar to what many folks said about a 25-year-old Michael Jordan. (Note: I am NOT comparing Markus to Michael, except for the fact that both had/have the "gunner gene.")

Having said all that ...

Markus has been nothing but a tremendous representative of our university. For 4 years now, I have been watching him, reading articles about him, hearing coaches and other professional basketball observers talk about him, and reading about him on this board, and nobody has provided a shred of evidence to the contrary.

Anybody who booed him on Senior Day or hassled his family last night is not just a loser; he or she is the lowest scum on the earth.

Finally, I'm not a fan of threads like this because I don't like generalizations. Obviously, all of our fans don't "suck." I also dislike the generalizations many Projos make about Nojos, and vice versa.

Have a nice day, my friend. We are Marquette!

This is all true, yet I am glad to move on to the Post- Markus Howard era of Marquette basketball. I have had enough of watching one guy dominate the ball so much to (I believe) the detriment of the overall team. He has been a blast to watch most of the time, but the team success just isn't there.

Quote from: Goose on March 01, 2020, 07:45:18 AM
82

My point on Howard has always gone back to Wojo. I think if Howard was 20 ppg guy on a successful team he would have been loved by all. Sadly, he has become the whipping boy due to a flawed system. Wojo has build his program based off on having a gunner and it has not worked in my opinion.

It started with Carlino, who was bashed on here early and hard, and has continued Year in year out. I think that more and more folks are tired of watching that type of ball and I am in the camp.

As for Howard, I am happy he played at MU and wish he would have had more team success. You are correct, he has been an outstanding representative for MU. Anyone that booed him or his family are jag offs. While, I have not enjoyed every moment of his career, I would have given him a standing ovation for a career well done.

This is a sure fire sign of a coach who doesn't know how to effectively design an offense. I really do believe Wojo's "great offensive mind" has been vastly overrated due to his ability (to his credit) of landing great shooters.

Wow - I forgot they were 2nd last year, what a year - they must have had a real good run to end the year and strong ncaa showing - did I forget that too?

Quote from: manesworld on March 01, 2020, 12:56:39 AM
Coming off of a 2nd place finish in a 10 team conference. What's your point?

In my opinion a point guard would make a big difference.Koby is shooting 32% from the floor and 29% from three.He dribbles way to much.Can not get by his man because his shot is not honored and he is not quick enough to get by defender which in turn never breaks the defense down to get better shots.The ball sticks way to much when he is in game and does not know how to feed the post very well.So Yes I feel it would make a big difference.Plus when offense is really clicking defense seems to be more energized.

Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on March 01, 2020, 08:35:41 AM
In my opinion a point guard would make a big difference.Koby is shooting 32% from the floor and 29% from three.He dribbles way to much.Can not get by his man because his shot is not honored and he is not quick enough to get by defender which in turn never breaks the defense down to get better shots.The ball sticks way to much when he is in game and does not know how to feed the post very well.So Yes I feel it would make a big difference.Plus when offense is really clicking defense seems to be more energized.

I don't think this matters that much when options 1-5 on each possession are to get the ball to Markus.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 29, 2020, 09:12:41 PM
I was a season ticket holder for many years. 18 or so times a year I drove 150 miles round trip to support the team. When seniors were honored  before the game I made sure to arrive early. When the ceremony was post game I stayed late. My preference. My choice. Never once did I sit in judgement of my fellow Marquette fans who couldn't arrive early/stay late or just didn't want to. These internecine battles over who is and who isn't a "good fan" are pathetic and pointless. It's "We are Marquette" not "We are Marquette and you're not". Talk about entitled. Pot meet kettle.

Yessir

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 01, 2020, 07:56:56 AM
Do you believe in the concept of a team cancer? If so, how would you define it?

Here are my answers:  Yes  and  Not Markus

Does not make a difference.Lol.Look at the stats.Koby has played 784 minutes with 89  assists and 74 turnovers. Symir has played 242 minutes with 40 assists and 17 turnovers.The offense runs poorly with Koby in the game.I would have liked to see Markus play along side  a Tony Miller ,Sam Worthen or Travis Diener.Yes it would make a difference and not just for Markus

Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on March 01, 2020, 09:00:07 AM
Does not make a difference.Lol.Look at the stats.Koby has played 784 minutes with 89  assists and 74 turnovers. Symir has played 242 minutes with 40 assists and 17 turnovers.The offense runs poorly with Koby in the game.I would have liked to see Markus play along side  a Tony Miller ,Sam Worthen or Travis Diener.Yes it would make a difference and not just for Markus

Yeah I'm not sure about that.  Symir isn't a threat to score and gets lost defensively.  I certainly hope that he will improve, but the idea that this team would have been better with more Symir and less Koby is a poor one.

And I think the stats support this.  While Koby is slightly behind Symir in terms of assist rate, Symir's turnover rate is the worst on the team.  He's just not careful enough with the ball.

Not saying Symir would have been the answer just showing how bad Koby  stats are compared to someone that has played  a third less minutes that has no college experience.I don't think anyone can debate Koby has been bad at the point guard position and when you have bad point guard play long term success is not coming.just look at Washington after Quade Green was ruled ineligible.

Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on March 01, 2020, 09:13:19 AM
Not saying Symir would have been the answer just showing how bad Koby  stats are compared to someone that has played  a third less minutes that has no college experience.I don't think anyone can debate Koby has been bad at the point guard position and when you have bad point guard play long term success is not coming.just look at Washington after Quade Green was ruled ineligible.

Koby hasn't been good.  Symir would have been worse. 

That is not the point.So you agree that point guard is a problem.Thank you

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 01, 2020, 07:56:56 AM
Do you believe in the concept of a team cancer? If so, how would you define it?

I believe that uninformed people who use incendiary terms to describe outstanding 20-year-old student/athletes - young men who have done nothing but represent a university with class - have revealed their lack of character.

Here are two Senior Day moments that maybe only a few saw.  After staying around shaking as many fans' hands as possible, Markus kissed the FF floor goodbye.  At Real Chili, two seniors were celebrating their just new engagement, only to be showered with a crescendo of oyster crackers.

If you look hard enough, you can see special moments even in defeat. I had a great day with family and friends to celebrate these players.

Quote from: Goose on March 01, 2020, 01:04:52 AM
Manes

I have never said anything about my financial support of the program or university. Not exactly sure why you and others feel a need to group people on here.

Read Keefers posts. I'm taking him for a very honorable, trustworthy, honest man because, well, frankly, he's told us he's nothing short of the second coming of Jesus Christ himself. Sorry if he got it wrong and/or lied and I shouldn't have believed him.

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 01, 2020, 06:54:28 AM
The problem with all this nonsense about the fan base is that people are leaving out an important aspect...that, for the most part, our fan base knows what a well coached team looks like. Under Wojo, we have yet to see it.

For as accomplished Howard is as a scorer, he's not well coached. He's a scoring novelty act to the detriment of team success. Go ahead and cite our record when he scores 30 points, blah blah blah. The fact of the matter is and has been for two years, that the rest of the team suffers as he dominates the ball, shot attempts and attention. Don't @ me with some sabermetric bullsh*t either. It's why the Hausers left. When a guy is taking 25
Shots a game and you find yourself  with the basketball, if affects your decision making. It has affected the development of guys like Bailey, Cain, Elliott. I think it was beginning to affect Sam's decision making and Joey, obviously, was sick and tired of it.

Say what you want about Howard as a person. I'm sure he's a wonderful guy. He is not and never has been a team basketball player. It's not his game. For all you Howard defenders, I found it interesting that you thought his game vs Georgetown was his "masterpiece." Maybe so. But why not his 50+ vs USC at Thanksgiving? Is it because he exploded for 7 assists? If that's the case, shouldn't you be mentioning that he had exactly zero assists at halftime yesterday?

When the university is practically begging people to appreciate a kid who scores like he does there is something rotten in Denmark.

Marquette has a proud tradition and for him to be as polarizing as he clearly is speaks volumes.

Don't believe me? Listen to the FS1 studio analysts. They're beating us over the head with it every game. "Get teammates involved" seems to be a recurring theme.

For whatever reason, Wojo refuses to see the issue with this team. It is glaring and that's why the "note" was written. Those boys were begging for him to coach the team. Letting Howard run wild has been the easy way out and Wojo has chosen that path.

I will also say student booing of the coach seems a little unusual. Has it occurred to anybody that the students doing the booing may actually be booing as a result of conversations with players...their fellow students? Who interacts with the team more than the students? Wagging your fingers at these kids is ridiculous.

If we took a step or two back if Wojo left, I'd be fine with it. What we are watching isn't an enjoyable product. Like I said, it's a novelty act. NCAA or not, give me a team that works together over what we are watching.

The best arguments are always the ones that go along the lines of, "I already know the facts prove the opposite, so ignore those!"

Manes

Keefe is a real stand up guy and have a lot respect for him. You can feel anyway you want about anyone on here and I respect that. My point was not to say things I have not said. My financial support to the university had been paying tuition for my last children, at a financial sacrifice to our family. That said, I am very happy we did it and proud of my kids. Currently my financial interests are geared towards saying for grandchildren's education.

My post on those who have financially supported the program and university was a general statement. There are many, likely some on here, that fall into that camp and I appreciate their support. My frustration with you stems from a need on personal attacks. I disagree with many in here but try not to make things personal to other scoopers.

Quote from: Goose on March 01, 2020, 10:02:08 AM
Manes

Keefe is a real stand up guy and have a lot respect for him. You can feel anyway you want about anyone on here and I respect that. My point was not to say things I have not said. My financial support to the university had been paying tuition for my last children, at a financial sacrifice to our family. That said, I am very happy we did it and proud of my kids. Currently my financial interests are geared towards saying for grandchildren's education.

My post on those who have financially supported the program and university was a general statement. There are many, likely some on here, that fall into that camp and I appreciate their support. My frustration with you stems from a need on personal attacks. I disagree with many in here but try not to make things personal to other scoopers.

This may help you understand why your name was included and why I felt the need to "group people." I "grouped people" because I was using the "group" Keefer provided and was replying to Keefer. My apologies if you did not want to be included in that "group."

Quote from: keefe on February 29, 2020, 10:03:31 PM
Mother Goose,

You and I have given Marquette a significant amount of money over the years. I dare say that frames what constitutes a definitive supporter of the program.

Sadly, our financial support is on hold until we see better results which is, of course, our right.

I would hazard to say many questioning loyalty to the program have not given so much as a six pack's worth of cash to Marquette. I find the irony in that is rather delicious.

FoxSports guys say something like 'spread the ball around' ... yet MU has an elite offense, #2 in Big East play. In the last 85 mins of game action, Markus has 86 points on 61% shooting (27-44). High usage can break your mind a bit because it is so odd to see it within a major conference but it is hardly the foremost reason for the program's ceiling.

You're looking on the wrong side of the court. MU is struggling to make the leap as a program because of defense, where MU is one of the worst two defensive teams in the Big East. MU has been one of the worst two defensive teams in the league for 3 of the last 4 seasons. MU has only finished in the top of half (which is a very low bar, btw) of Big East defensive teams in 1 of Wojo's 6 seasons. Moreover, questionable lineup construction exacerbates the the problem.

We returned this morning from a nice day with our daughter, taking in senior day and spending the evening in Milwaukee. 

We have attended numerous senior days and the showing yesterday was not that different than others.  Coach Williams lost his first three senior days, the turnout was roughly the same except for the three amigos.  His last year we lost and the turnout was worse than yesterday.  Coach Crean and Wojo senior days felt similar in fan appearance.  Doesn't make it right in my opinion.

Markus was terrific yesterday.  Sacar and Jayce struggled. 

Quote from: manesworld on March 01, 2020, 10:01:36 AM
The best arguments are always the ones that go along the lines of, "I already know the facts prove the opposite, so ignore those!"

Not sure what this means.

Here is a fact: Three of our top 7 or 8 rotation guys from a year ago walked off the team. Everything I've heard suggests they were "great representatives of Marquette University."

Manes

Proud member of the meat summit guys, all men I respect a great deal. But, like many groups in life, not everyone is the same. I have plenty of friends that march to a different drummer and all are different. Older I get the less I try to make assumptions or judgement. Who knows, maybe I would have different opinion if you if in a real life conversation vs. a "ball" forum.

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on March 01, 2020, 11:34:18 AM
Not sure what this means.

Here is a fact: Three of our top 7 or 8 rotation guys from a year ago walked off the team. Everything I've heard suggests they were "great representatives of Marquette University."

Nightmare

You nailed it: The fact that 40% of any organization's best talent walks away is disturbing.

Don't try to reason with the intellectually challenged. It's a fool's game.

Quote from: manesworld on March 01, 2020, 09:55:33 AM
Read Keefers posts. I'm taking him for a very honorable, trustworthy, honest man because, well, frankly, he's told us he's nothing short of the second coming of Jesus Christ himself. Sorry if he got it wrong and/or lied and I shouldn't have believed him.

Funny, I never interpreted Keefes posts as being the second coming of Jesus Christ...now George Patton, maybe!

This is a very weird time to be criticizing Markus' play. The offense yesterday was excellent. Our 79 points was the second most scored against Seton Hall this season (first was 87 by Creighton). We only had 9 turnovers. We had 16 offensive rebounds to their 23 defensive rebounds. We shot an eFG% of 51% (Seton Hall's opponents have shot 44% eFG% against them this season). The few times the offense looked bad it was because Markus distributed to other players and they missed open shots.

The problem yesterday was defense and Markus spent most of the night guarding Quincy McKnight who went 2/8 from the floor.

This of course is following a game against Georgetown where he put on a passing and scoring clinic.

You can think Wojo's offensive system is bad or has been a detriment to the team, that's fine. But to connect it to yesterday's loss is just incorrect.

TAMU

As I said in earlier post, I think Howard has become the whipping boy for this team. He has played well and really no reason to being throwing darts directly in his direction. I think it is a reflection of the frustration growing with a segment of the fan base.

Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 01, 2020, 02:28:41 PM
This is a very weird time to be criticizing Markus' play. The offense yesterday was excellent. Our 79 points was the second most scored against Seton Hall this season (first was 87 by Creighton). We only had 9 turnovers. We had 16 offensive rebounds to their 23 defensive rebounds. We shot an eFG% of 51% (Seton Hall's opponents have shot 44% eFG% against them this season). The few times the offense looked bad it was because Markus distributed to other players and they missed open shots.

The problem yesterday was defense and Markus spent most of the night guarding Quincy McKnight who went 2/8 from the floor.

This of course is following a game against Georgetown where he put on a passing and scoring clinic.

You can think Wojo's offensive system is bad or has been a detriment to the team, that's fine. But to connect it to yesterday's loss is just incorrect.

Honest question: how good were our offensive numbers up to the point when we were hopelessly blown out? My guess is our efg% wasn't very good when we went down 24. Garbage time stat building means nothing IMHO.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 01, 2020, 10:00:52 PM
Honest question: how good were our offensive numbers up to the point when we were hopelessly blown out? My guess is our efg% wasn't very good when we went down 24. Garbage time stat building means nothing IMHO.

When was there garbage time stat building? Both teams played their starters through to the end.

Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 01, 2020, 11:23:44 PM
When was there garbage time stat building? Both teams played their starters through to the end.

Regardless of who is in the game a team's intensity (especially on defense) tends to wane when a game billed as dog fight turns into a rout. I'm not impressed with how we looked when SH was standing around waiting for the game to end. When a home team favorite is down 24 with 10 minutes left and the game is for all intents and purposes over, "stats" for the remainder of the game mean nothing. Since you didn't answer my question and provide the numbers for when the game was actually a game, I'll assume they don't make our offensive performance look all that good.

Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 01, 2020, 11:23:44 PM
When was there garbage time stat building? Both teams played their starters through to the end.

I think his point was that at half we were done by 9 and from that point on Seton Hall never looked back. Willard also made a comment about how he didn't like how his team became complacent and allowed Marquette to make a little run at the end. Also made it sound like stopped trying after they were up 20+ most of the half.

Markus is Woj's hope to cover up chitty recruitin'. Overall talent level has sucked. Seriously wonder if Woj and his staff can evaluate talent and what he needs to move the team up to the next level. Or does he strike out in pursuit of talent, hey?

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 02, 2020, 07:50:01 AM
Markus is Woj's hope to cover up chitty recruitin'. Overall talent level has sucked. Seriously wonder if Woj and his staff can evaluate talent and what he needs to move the team up to the next level. Or does he strike out in pursuit of talent, hey?

I think it's the latter.  He had some misses, possibly due to the Hausers standing in the way.  But he has made up for that with this class.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 02, 2020, 07:14:27 AM


Regardless of who is in the game a team's intensity (especially on defense) tends to wane when a game billed as dog fight turns into a rout. I'm not impressed with how we looked when SH was standing around waiting for the game to end. When a home team favorite is down 24 with 10 minutes left and the game is for all intents and purposes over, "stats" for the remainder of the game mean nothing. Since you didn't answer my question and provide the numbers for when the game was actually a game, I'll assume they don't make our offensive performance look all that good.

That's a bad assumption on your part. I don't have the data. The only way to calculate that would be to manually go through the play by play and count the made and missed FGs. If you would like to do that to prove your point, please be my guest. I would assume they aren't as good as the final numbers but still good offense.

The game was in question until the final 25 seconds. If Seton Hall fell asleep at the wheel then credit to MU for continuing to fight and take advantage. My experience is that it doesn't matter what the score is, teams can lose intensity on defense whether they are winning, losing, or in a neck and neck game.

Wojo inability to recruit quality guards besides Markus is a problem.People can say  what they want but it is still a guards game.It is very troubling that with Markus graduating that Wojo could not bring in a top tier guard in the fall recruiting class.Hoping the Spring brings one in.

Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 01, 2020, 02:28:41 PM
This is a very weird time to be criticizing Markus' play. The offense yesterday was excellent. Our 79 points was the second most scored against Seton Hall this season (first was 87 by Creighton). We only had 9 turnovers. We had 16 offensive rebounds to their 23 defensive rebounds. We shot an eFG% of 51% (Seton Hall's opponents have shot 44% eFG% against them this season). The few times the offense looked bad it was because Markus distributed to other players and they missed open shots.

The problem yesterday was defense and Markus spent most of the night guarding Quincy McKnight who went 2/8 from the floor.

This of course is following a game against Georgetown where he put on a passing and scoring clinic.

You can think Wojo's offensive system is bad or has been a detriment to the team, that's fine. But to connect it to yesterday's loss is just incorrect.

Well said, as i have said their bad three point shooters shot tge lights out from three, what can you do?  Nothing, you tip your cap.  To which the bball know nothings say wojo is a bad coach or that he needs to adjust, now that is ignorance.

Markus doesn't shoot enough actually, so there is that.

Wojo went with a high usage offense this year focused on Markus and it has generally worked but in the big games we just haven't gotten anything from the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th bananas on the team. Is that on Wojo, I'm sure some of it is but it's also on the players just not stepping up in big game situations which is on them.

Our fans come across as entitled when they call Theo John soft or say Markus is selfish. If you think that "restraining" Markus for the better of the team  results in more wins this year you are insane. This team has talent but what about the talent says they can deliver day in day out like Markus can. The offensive strategy this year is let Markus cook and get solid, average to above average performances from 2 of the following: Sacar, Koby, Bailey, Cain, Theo, Jayce. Unfortunately in the big games that group tends to not step up.

Lastly, please note Markus' game against Georgetown....he has 7 assists because his teammates were hitting shots. He could have had 6 or 7 against Seton Hall if his teammates could have hit open shots.

Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on March 02, 2020, 08:22:01 AM
Wojo inability to recruit quality guards besides Markus is a problem.People can say  what they want but it is still a guards game.It is very troubling that with Markus graduating that Wojo could not bring in a top tier guard in the fall recruiting class.Hoping the Spring brings one in.

Wojo is very much in on Karim Mane who, if he doesn't go straight to the NBA, is a one and done type of PG.

Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on March 02, 2020, 08:22:01 AM
Wojo inability to recruit quality guards besides Markus is a problem.People can say  what they want but it is still a guards game.It is very troubling that with Markus graduating that Wojo could not bring in a top tier guard in the fall recruiting class.Hoping the Spring brings one in.

Agree koby is terrible and while he has alit if defenders Sacar is well below avg too.  Hard to win against good team with those two in starting lineup, they are poor shooters, bad passers, poor finishers and bad ball handlers n not overly quick.  Both play solid defense but good defense should be a given by junior year.  Greg is playing at maybe 80% n still limping

Quote from: keefe on March 01, 2020, 12:40:57 PM
Nightmare

You nailed it: The fact that 40% of any organization's best talent walks away is disturbing.

Don't try to reason with the intellectually challenged. It's a fool's game.

I'd ordinarily agree with you, but I'm not going to fully blame Wojo for not kowtowing to one player and losing the brother out of family loyalty.

Being in and getting them are different.He was very much in on Quentin Grimes,Nico Mannion and RJ Davis also.Should have been able to land a quality guard in the fall with Markus being gone

Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2020, 08:27:50 AM
Agree koby is terrible and while he has alit if defenders Sacar is well below avg too.  Hard to win against good team with those two in starting lineup, they are poor shooters, bad passers, poor finishers and bad ball handlers n not overly quick.  Both play solid defense but good defense should be a given by junior year.  Greg is playing at maybe 80% n still limping

Koby has been bad, but Sacar is generally a very solid player....not sure why you have to tear Sacar down here.

Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on March 02, 2020, 08:30:03 AM
Being in and getting them are different.He was very much in on Quentin Grimes,Nico Mannion and RJ Davis also.Should have been able to land a quality guard in the fall with Markus being gone

Kind of like being able to use a space bar?

Symir Torrence will be a very solid player. We'll see what Dexter Akinno has to offer after taking the Sacar development year. If Greg fully heals and stays health we'll have a great guard there. Wojo has two more scholarships to fill, if he gets Mane, we are extremely solid.

TL;DR we don't have enough data on next seasons roster to make the call yet.

Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 02, 2020, 07:50:01 AM
Markus is Woj's hope to cover up chitty recruitin'. Overall talent level has sucked. Seriously wonder if Woj and his staff can evaluate talent and what he needs to move the team up to the next level. Or does he strike out in pursuit of talent, hey?

This is it.

MU has bigs that struggle to finish, and guards (outside of Markus) that can't create.

Quote from: mu03eng on March 02, 2020, 08:30:16 AM
Koby has been bad, but Sacar is generally a very solid player....not sure why you have to tear Sacar down here.

I think this where the Hauser departure hurt the most. It bumped everyone up a rung. I really like what Sacar brings to the table, but he's not quite consistent enough to be a #2.

Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2020, 08:22:15 AM

Well said, as i have said their bad three point shooters shot tge lights out from three, what can you do?  Nothing, you tip your cap.  To which the bball know nothings say wojo is a bad coach or that he needs to adjust, now that is ignorance.

Their 3 point shooting 13/26. scorched us for sure.
My eye test told me that Mamu was the biggest factor on Sat.
A check of the box score confirmed it.   Inside or outside he was unstoppable

mu03eng.Your mu should be capitalized

I thought the crowd did very well at being at their seats at 1:13pm for Senior Day. Place had to be more than half full at that time.

Final average attendance number- 15,145. Should be good enough for top 15 again nationally.

A lot of programs would love to have fans that suck as much as Marquette's.

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 02, 2020, 09:19:05 AM
Final average attendance number- 15,145. Should be good enough for top 15 again nationally.

A lot of programs would love to have fans that suck as much as Marquette's.

And how.

Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 02, 2020, 09:27:49 AM
And how.

For an attendance/enrollment ratio of 1.34. I think only Creighton better at 1.85. I'm pretty sure those are the only two programs with a ratio over one - and Syracuse is probably the only other one close at 0.98.

Quote from: 1SE on March 02, 2020, 09:47:16 AM
For an attendance/enrollment ratio of 1.34. I think only Creighton better at 1.85. I'm pretty sure those are the only two programs with a ratio over one - and Syracuse is probably the only other one close at 0.98.

We are the only ones with the NBA to compete with as well. Makes that a very impressive number in my opinion.

Quote from: MUfan12 on March 02, 2020, 09:19:05 AM
Final average attendance number- 15,145. Should be good enough for top 15 again nationally.

A lot of programs would love to have fans that suck as much as Marquette's.

Bingo!!

Anyone got the names of the two knuckleheads tossed out on Saturday?

Serious question....does the MPD issue a citation if they kick you out of the FF?

Personal attacks and outright hatred of your fellow women/man is the norm. Is this the role model we wish to project?   Reflection on our own behavior versus others may be something to consider. Is this behavior what we wish to teach our children?

Quote from: real chili 83 on March 02, 2020, 12:34:12 PM
Serious question....does the MPD issue a citation if they kick you out of the FF?

(http://media.giphy.com/media/xmPTkd3TSrxvi/giphy.gif)

Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on March 02, 2020, 02:00:01 PM
(http://media.giphy.com/media/xmPTkd3TSrxvi/giphy.gif)

Is that Coach K?

Quote from: mu03eng on March 02, 2020, 08:32:30 AM
Kind of like being able to use a space bar?

Symir Torrence will be a very solid player. We'll see what Dexter Akinno has to offer after taking the Sacar development year. If Greg fully heals and stays health we'll have a great guard there.

I wouldn't expect anything but a role player from Akino. As for GE, you are the 3rd or 4th Scooper to assert that good health is all that stands between him and greatness. I don't see it - at all. What has he done anywhere to bring you to that conclusion?

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 02, 2020, 02:41:06 PM
I wouldn't expect anything but a role player from Akino. As for GE, you are the 3rd or 4th Scooper to assert that good health is all that stands between him and greatness. I don't see it - at all. What has he done anywhere to bring you to that conclusion?

Greatness? Not sure where that has been written. Dont be such an ass

Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2020, 02:54:04 PM
Greatness? Not sure where that has been written. Dont be such an ass

Ask Tower, I'm sure he's beaten that's dumb a few times.  GE is THE difference maker

Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2020, 02:54:04 PM
Greatness? Not sure where that has been written. Dont be such an ass

The post Lenny quoted literally said, "We'll have a great guard there."

I thought the crowd was great throughout -- unlike the team, which didn't show up for the first 30 minutes of the game. Marquette falling behind by 23 points at home had absolutely nothing to do with the support of the 17,000 fans who were at the game.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 02, 2020, 02:41:06 PM
I wouldn't expect anything but a role player from Akino. As for GE, you are the 3rd or 4th Scooper to assert that good health is all that stands between him and greatness. I don't see it - at all. What has he done anywhere to bring you to that conclusion?

His KenPom numbers and what he looks like on the floor:
He's averaging an ORtg of 106.5 and an eFG% of 53%, 3rd best assist rate on the team while being our second best rebounding guard and is our second best shooter(both twos and threes)

He's long and can defend 3 positions, all while being on a bum wheel.

Quote from: Marcus92 on March 02, 2020, 03:27:36 PM
I thought the crowd was great throughout -- unlike the team, which didn't show up for the first 30 minutes of the game. Marquette falling behind by 23 points at home had absolutely nothing to do with the support of the 17,000 fans who were at the game.

Exactly.

And, anyone who stayed for the Seniors' speeches (or listened on the radio) heard that Markus doesn't think the fans suck.  In fact, he loves the fans and is super appreciative.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 02, 2020, 02:41:06 PM
I wouldn't expect anything but a role player from Akino. As for GE, you are the 3rd or 4th Scooper to assert that good health is all that stands between him and greatness. I don't see it - at all. What has he done anywhere to bring you to that conclusion?

His advanced numbers both his freshman and redshirt sophomore seasons are the kind that suggest he could take a big leap if given more opportunity. I thought he was our best defender his freshman season. Less so now, but it could be the ankle. To be clear, I'm not suggesting he's the next coming of Vander Blue or anything like that but I could see him becoming a very capable third or fourth starter in the Big East.

Quote from: mu03eng on March 02, 2020, 03:58:31 PM
His KenPom numbers and what he looks like on the floor:
He's averaging an ORtg of 106.5 and an eFG% of 53%, 3rd best assist rate on the team while being our second best rebounding guard and is our second best shooter(both twos and threes)

He's long and can defend 3 positions, all while being on a bum wheel.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think an ORtg of 106.5 = "great", especially with such low usage. Same for the other facts and opinions you cite. I see no greatness in them.

Next year's returnees did not inspire. My personal opinion is that Greg, Jamall, Brendan, Coby and Theo are at or near their ceiling. What do you expect to see from that group improvement wise that hasn't been demonstrated in the two or three seasons they've played? Replacing 40 points from Marcus and Sacar will be challenging. I do believe Symir has upside.

Hard to see the four new players (three recruits + Dexter) being instant studs in the Big East. We'll spend much of the season saying that they are freshman. Next year's team needs perhaps two more high level contributors who aren't currently enrolled. Perhaps Mane and a grad?

Quote from: franklinjerry on March 02, 2020, 04:59:13 PM
Next year's returnees did not inspire. My personal opinion is that Greg, Jamall, Brendan, Coby and Theo are at or near their ceiling. What do you expect to see from that group improvement wise that hasn't been demonstrated in the two or three seasons they've played? Replacing 40 points from Marcus and Sacar will be challenging. I do believe Symir has upside.

We'll need consistency from these guys.  Think how good we could be if we get Brendan's best game every game.  Same with these other guys.  We've seen flashes and even full games of how good these guys can play, but we need to see that night in and night out.  Then we've got something.

Quote from: ManeCity83 on March 02, 2020, 05:06:49 PM
We'll need consistency from these guys.  Think how good we could be if we get Brendan's best game every game.  Same with these other guys.  We've seen flashes and even full games of how good these guys can play, but we need to see that night in and night out.  Then we've got something.

MUs down turn has coincided with Baileys disappearance.  I would also hate to know what him and sacar and kobys combined shooting percentage is during tge same period.  That trio had made 2 baskets before the last 4 minutes of the SHU game and it wasnt fir the lack of taking wide open shots!!

Quote from: TAMU Garcia on March 02, 2020, 04:31:32 PM
His advanced numbers both his freshman and redshirt sophomore seasons are the kind that suggest he could take a big leap if given more opportunity. I thought he was our best defender his freshman season. Less so now, but it could be the ankle. To be clear, I'm not suggesting he's the next coming of Vander Blue or anything like that but I could see him becoming a very capable third or fourth starter in the Big East.

Greg is at 80% at best right now, still limping and had to rest the ankle for 3-4? Games as we all recall.

Lenny

GE will be at best a 3rd or 4th option. Seems like a great kid, but not sure a tremendous upside moving forward. We need the new guys to be real deals next year or might be a long season.

Quote from: Goose on March 02, 2020, 05:45:32 PM
Lenny

GE will be at best a 3rd or 4th option. Seems like a great kid, but not sure a tremendous upside moving forward. We need the new guys to be real deals next year or might be a long season.

I agree Goose. As for Greg - he's a good role player. Good defender. Can hit an open three. But there is very little he can bring off the bounce...largely because he's just SO thin and can't play through any kind of contact.

I do think Koby could take a nice step forward next year. He's just a mess right now. Bailey and Cain are wildcards. Jamal could take a step simply through adding more strength going from a 20 year old to 21 year old. But we are going to need major offensive contribution from Dawson and other freshman.

Quote from: Goose on March 02, 2020, 05:45:32 PM
Lenny

GE will be at best a 3rd or 4th option. Seems like a great kid, but not sure a tremendous upside moving forward. We need the new guys to be real deals next year or might be a long season.

I think the Theo Greg Jamal Ike class was supposed to be role player followed by the go to guys Joey and Brendan (once Sam and Markus has graduated). My theory was staggering the classes like this was wojos plan to stop the consistent transfers. If so it was a good idea till it didn't work.

Its amazing how some people expect everyone else to maintain the same level of fandom as they do , otherwise they "suck" or "arent true fans".
The beauty of sports is that it is just that, for sport. You can go all in to support a team or you can be casual about it. What gives someone the right to determine what makes a fanbase "good fans" or not. Its not like fans sign a contract. Also, noone should feel like they deserve a pat on the back for being a "good fan". Noone really cares that much.
That being said, hope MU has a good finish to the season. Its nice when the team you cheer for wins.

Quote from: MU24 on March 02, 2020, 07:17:32 PM
Its amazing how some people expect everyone else to maintain the same level of fandom as they do , otherwise they "suck" or "arent true fans".
The beauty of sports is that it is just that, for sport. You can go all in to support a team or you can be casual about it. What gives someone the right to determine what makes a fanbase "good fans" or not. Its not like fans sign a contract. Also, noone should feel like they deserve a pat on the back for being a "good fan". Noone really cares that much.
That being said, hope MU has a good finish to the season. Its nice when the team you cheer for wins.

There's a difference between what you're describing and an obnoxious dbag in front of the families of players.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 02, 2020, 07:01:24 PM
I think the Theo Greg Jamal Ike class was supposed to be role player followed by the go to guys Joey and Brendan (once Sam and Markus has graduated). My theory was staggering the classes like this was wojos plan to stop the consistent transfers. If so it was a good idea till it didn't work.

Galway

Good observations.

Quote from: Goose on March 02, 2020, 05:45:32 PM
Lenny

GE will be at best a 3rd or 4th option. Seems like a great kid, but not sure a tremendous upside moving forward. We need the new guys to be real deals next year or might be a long season.

Goose

My sentiments exactly.

Quote from: Elonsmusk on March 02, 2020, 06:44:43 PM
I agree Goose. As for Greg - he's a good role player. Good defender. Can hit an open three. But there is very little he can bring off the bounce...largely because he's just SO thin and can't play through any kind of contact.

I do think Koby could take a nice step forward next year. He's just a mess right now. Bailey and Cain are wildcards. Jamal could take a step simply through adding more strength going from a 20 year old to 21 year old. But we are going to need major offensive contribution from Dawson and other freshman.

Elon

Hope you're right about Koby - love his toughness but I fear he'll always be inconsistent on the offensive end.

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 02, 2020, 07:27:16 PM
There's a difference between what you're describing and an obnoxious dbag in front of the families of players.

Two people!

And 20 booing students. 

18,000 people packed the place and we have ppl saying our fans suck. 

If Wojo is good bc he's in top 30 of NCAAs what does that make the fans who are top 15?

Quote from: The Lens on March 02, 2020, 07:58:58 PM
Two people!

And 20 booing students. 

18,000 people packed the place and we have ppl saying our fans suck. 

If Wojo is good bc he's in top 30 of NCAAs what does that make the fans who are top 15?

The Fiserv doesn't hold 18k...

Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 02, 2020, 08:11:41 PM
The Fiserv doesn't hold 18k...

Fine. 17,538. A smattering of boos (basically idiots) and all of a sudden the "fanbase sucks". The logic makes no sense.

Right.

And a few idiots on Scoop doesn't mean the majority