Not in love with Wojo, but I also realize I'm really not qualified to judge him by anything other than wins/losses and a clean program. So over the next five years I would be happy if we had a clean program and Wojo did the following:
-Next year - 5 seed or better and/or a Sweet 16 or better.
-In the four years that follow - Top 25 team 50% of the time...and a NCAA tourney team in 3 of those 4 years.
I would hope for better than a 5 seed next year, but if he doesn't hit that mark next year, or as soon as the conditions for the next four years become unattainable I think MU needs to move.
By your standards (not what you think MU will require), what is the minimum Wojo needs to do next year and then over the next four years to remain at MU?
The most important recruiting year is coming up, so if Wojo can bring in some of the players MU is mentioned with, then he wii be fine. Has one already, needs 3 or 4 more, then MU will be fine for 4 more years. Next year should be at least 5th seed or better, add 2 players who should help and everybody back is enough
4 tourney appearances
2 S16
2 Conference Championships
Would like to see Wojo and Company bring in 4 high quality recruits for 2020 class. They have Symir's verbal commitment ,now they just need to get some of the strong local prospects.
If a pogo stick grad transfer or traditional transfer,with proven track record is available for last 2019 spot that would be great too.
As far as team goes they need to produce solid consistent results with strength at end of the season. Big East is far tougher next year ,so anything 3rd or better is pretty good work. Need to show double digit wins in Non conference season.
Quote from: LAZER on March 26, 2019, 05:45:47 PM
4 tourney appearances
2 S16
2 Conference Championships
This is pretty close to mine...only I would add...starting with next year and over the next four..they make the tourney EVERY year(with 4 seeds or better)...NOT lose in the first round, Minimum of at least two sweet 16's(and be on the same path Buzz was...Sweet 16, Sweet 16, Elite 8). 2 conference championships and I would add no more then 1 loss at home in any of those years.
5 NCAA appearances. Marquette is a program that should expect to make it almost every year.
Quote from: #UnleashCain on March 26, 2019, 05:57:12 PM
5 NCAA appearances. Marquette is a program that should expect to make it almost every year.
FIFY...and the fan base should expect it as well.
Quote from: avid1010 on March 26, 2019, 05:20:49 PM
Not in love with Wojo, but I also realize I'm really not qualified to judge him by anything other than wins/losses and a clean program. So over the next five years I would be happy if we had a clean program and Wojo did the following:
-Next year - 5 seed or better and/or a Sweet 16 or better.
-In the four years that follow - Top 25 team 50% of the time...and a NCAA tourney team in 3 of those 4 years.
I would hope for better than a 5 seed next year, but if he doesn't hit that mark next year, or as soon as the conditions for the next four years become unattainable I think MU needs to move.
By your standards (not what you think MU will require), what is the minimum Wojo needs to do next year and then over the next four years to remain at MU?
Next year, if everyone returns? 2nd weekend of NCAA's, compete for league title, meaning top few of league, comf tourney improvement, similar or better NCAA seed.
Over 5 years? Two NCAA 2nd weekends, win the league. Make NCAA's annually.
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 26, 2019, 05:52:23 PM
Would like to see Wojo and Company bring in 4 high quality recruits for 2020 class. They have Symir's verbal commitment ,now they just need to get some of the strong local prospects.
If a pogo stick grad transfer or traditional transfer,with proven track record is available for last 2019 spot that would be great too.
As far as team goes they need to produce solid consistent results with strength at end of the season. Big East is far tougher next year ,so anything 3rd or better is pretty good work. Need to show double digit wins in Non conference season.
I misread question. In addition to above I would like to see program make the tournament every year. If Wojo and staff can keep recruiting at pace I outlined second week of tournament consistently is achievable.
If we make the NCAA tournament every season with an average seed of 5 or better, MU would rank among the top 10 programs in the country. That's my hope for the program in the next 5 years.
Well, let's see...after Marquette grows a pair and fires Wojo I expect his replacement to...
Quote from: muguru on March 26, 2019, 06:04:12 PM
FIFY...and the fan base should expect it as well.
When an "ELITE" program doesn't, should they be fired? When Syracuse, UNC, Arizona, etc, etc miss....those coaches should have been canned.....I'm asking since they were elite.
Next season, I expect them to be better than this season.
The year after that, I expect them to be significantly worse with Markus, Sam, Sacar, and Ed graduating. Despite that, I expect them to still make the NCAAs, likely a bubble team with a lot of promise from a strong 2020 class. If Wojo can somehow land Jalen Johnson, we may get to skip this rebuilding year.
Three years out I expect another big jump similar to one between years 4 and 5 with only McEwen, John, and Cain graduating and year of growth for hopefully a strong 2020 class. A top 6 seed.
Four years out, maintain the progress made the previous year. Joey, Bailey, and Greg all graduate but recruiting has continued to improve and the youngbloods are ready to take over. Another top 6 seed.
Five years out, the 2020 class are now seniors and the recruiting classes behind them have been strong. Akanno and Eke are the only players who graduated from the top 6 seed team from a year ago. Maybe nobody graduated if Akanno redshirtted and Eke never recovered from his back. Team comes in with legitimate final four hype.
The above is an "in a perfect world" scenario. But now that the rebuild is over, expectations are higher. Wojo can take the occasional dip into the high seeds and maybe miss the tourney once every 5 or 6 years, but no more multiple years with no NCAA appearances.
I really cannot provide any expectations past next year without knowing who the players will be on the roster. It would only be speculation, relying on if so commits, etc. This is based upon the fact after next year, MU loses Markus, Sam, Sacar, Morrow, and we should know if Ike will or will not be on the roster. Maybe some current player transfers. That could be a potential six player vacancy. Without knowing the roster, how can one make a reasonable assessment.
For next year, if Markus returns and McEwen is not a mirror image of Chartouney, along with Elliott, the team should be ranked pre season close to Top 15 ranking. Challenge for BE title and Elite 8.
For future years, starting with 2020, the discussion can commence on learning the identities of the incoming players and Symir Torrence is an outstanding start. Currently ranked 48 and rising with a bullet status. The staff is in on numerous top recruits and let's see who commits.
Quote from: nyg on March 26, 2019, 07:10:27 PM
I really cannot provide any expectations past next year without knowing who the players will be on the roster. It would only be speculation, relying on if so commits, etc. This is based upon the fact after next year, MU loses Markus, Sam, Sacar, Morrow, and we should know if Ike will or will not be on the roster. Maybe some current player transfers. That could be a potential six player vacancy. Without knowing the roster, how can one make a reasonable assessment.
Koby
Greg
Jamal
Brendan
Joey
Theo
...all currently on the roster and 'project' to be here in 2020-21. That's a great start and certainly a roster base (+ hopefully newbies who make an impact) that looks to be tourney worthy.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 26, 2019, 06:53:12 PM
When an "ELITE" program doesn't, should they be fired? When Syracuse, UNC, Arizona, etc, etc miss....those coaches should have been canned.....I'm asking since they were elite.
Of course they shouldn't...but when is the last time any of them missed 3 times in a 5 year span..?? When's the last time a Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Kansas have missed?? I know Kentucky was in the NIT several years ago..But were right back in the NCAA's again and haven't missed a beat since...UNC did miss...under Doherty...guess what they did?? FIRED him. That's not acceptable at UNC. It hsould also not be acceptable at MU.
Boeheim has missed, but he has also been there forever and with everything he has done for that program he has earned the right for a slip up or two. Wojo hasn't come close to earning that right...and he shouldn't be given it.
No expectations according to most. We run a clean program and for Christ's sake, we finished 2nd in the BE. Who cares if we ever win a tourney. Wtf do you want!!!!!!! Geez
Quote from: jonny09 on March 26, 2019, 07:40:11 PM
No expectations according to most. We run a clean program and for Christ's sake, we finished 2nd in the BE. Who cares if we ever win a tourney. Wtf do you want!!!!!!! Geez
That's the spirit.
Watching Indiana right now and started thinking about MU this upcoming year, MU could not stop Langford and had trouble all year with a player like him. Can either of the guards coming in defend that or does MU need a 6'7" inch player who can?
Quote from: jonny09 on March 26, 2019, 07:40:11 PM
No expectations according to most. We run a clean program and for Christ's sake, we finished 2nd in the BE. Who cares if we ever win a tourney. Wtf do you want!!!!!!! Geez
Apparently at Marquette, for some of the fans now, this is banner hanging worthy...let's get one made up and proudly display it in the Fiserv Forum rafters!
It's basically the same teams competing for the crown each year. Every once in a while a sleeper may get to the Final Four. It's boring. I'm glad Nova made it's mark and is now one of the elite programs. They lucked out w/ Wright.
I dont get the recruiting talk...dont give a crap if wojo recruits like bo ryan if we have that kind of success. Now i "think" wojo needs to recruit big to win because i think he lacks as a coach...but few are qualified to judge that. For me...dont care who comes and goes...just get us in the tourney 3 out of 4 years and a top 25 program the majority of the time. From there i think opportunities for ncaa wins present themselves over time.
We are suffering the growing pains with a rookie coach. I think we have to jump at the opportunity to find a coach who has learned the ropes having coached a few teams if that opportunity presents itself.
I believe Marquette can consistently be in the top 25, Make the tournament and have a couple of decent runs in the tournament over the next five years.
The thing that has impressed me the most about Wojo is his work on the recruiting trail. He is out there working the top levels of talent very hard and getting the schools name out there. It appears as if Marquette can compete well for talent at the level just below the Blue Bloods. Marquette is a great platform for transfers as well.
This past season obviously ended on a sour note, however I believe the coaching staff will learn from the experience and make the necessary adjustments in the coming years.
I live down in ACC land and believe me things could be a lot worse. Just look at Wake under Danny Manning for an example. Marquette program is in the process of going from good to very good and it appears as if they can do that over the next five years.
making tourney 4 times every 5 years (so 80%), making 2nd weekend 2-3 times in that 5 year period (so 50%) and slipping into a f4 every 10-15 years.
Imo, next year comes with serious pressure to make a trip to the second weekend. But I doubt admin makes a move if he makes tourney and only wins one game or loses first round.
Quote from: WindyCityGoldenEagle on March 26, 2019, 09:00:01 PM
making tourney 4 times every 5 years (so 80%), making 2nd weekend 2-3 times in that 5 year period (so 50%) and slipping into a f4 every 10-15 years.
Imo, next year comes with serious pressure to make a trip to the second weekend. But I doubt admin makes a move if he makes tourney and only wins one game or loses first round.
Agree. This is about spot on where I stand. From what I recall, there are only 9-10 programs that have a current streak of consecutive NCAA appearances exceeding 5 years. Until recently, we were on that list.
4 of 5 years in the tournament is a reasonable expectation for the next five years.
Sweet Sixteen streaks are even rarer. I think only Gonzaga is beyond 3 currently. I'd like to think we can get there 2 times in the next 5, but would expect at least one visit.
Final Four is much more difficult, but once per decade would put Marquette in elite status.
If the next five years were to progress in this manner, then expectations would increase the following five years. Marquette has a wonderful tradition. It also has limitations. Returning to the glory days of the 1970's is not a pipe dream, but it also is not going to happen overnight.
I thought Buzz was the guy to get us there. I still think he would have. I will not get into all the issues related to off the court stuff, nor will I opine on his departure. Needless to say, the man has proven he can coach, although admittedly, there is a question as to at what cost.
Is Wojo the guy? I have reservations. Next year will be very important. This off-season as well. Any regression from this year (a continued slide from the last 6-7 games for example), would be a sign that Marquette should move on. Do I think Marquette should right now? No. Did this season meet my expectations? On some levels, yes. Did the end of the season slide sour the season and fall well below expectations? Of course.
Next year is important. It sets up the momentum for the following four. If Wojo cannot improve next year, I will join the cut ties camp. But I think he gets one more year.
Quote from: WindyCityGoldenEagle on March 26, 2019, 09:00:01 PM
making tourney 4 times every 5 years (so 80%), making 2nd weekend 2-3 times in that 5 year period (so 50%) and slipping into a f4 every 10-15 years.
Imo, next year comes with serious pressure to make a trip to the second weekend. But I doubt admin makes a move if he makes tourney and only wins one game or loses first round.
Does anyone know the number of programs that make the Sweet 16 or better 50% of the time over a 5 year period? Feels low.
We are a very unathletic team. Adding Koby and Greg is not going to significantly change that.
At the start of this year folks pointed at next year as final four worthy. Not many have that feeling now.
And the year after is a step back from that and the following years are based on a recruiting class that currently has 1 player to replace at least 4.
Not a promising forecast.
Quote from: jonny09 on March 26, 2019, 07:40:11 PM
No expectations according to most. We run a clean program and for Christ's sake, we finished 2nd in the BE. Who cares if we ever win a tourney. Wtf do you want!!!!!!! Geez
So you're basically good with the male version of Teri Mitchell?
Year 1 Expectations: A national championship in the next five years.
Year 2: A national championship in the next five years.
Year 3: A national championship in the next five years.
Year 4: A national championship in the next five years.
Year 5: A national championship in the next five years.
Quote from: pbiflyer on March 26, 2019, 11:29:17 PM
So you're basically good with the male version of Teri Mitchell?
Didn't one of her assistants get an MU player pregnant?
Quote from: muguru on March 26, 2019, 07:26:06 PM
UNC did miss...under Doherty...guess what they did?? FIRED him. That's not acceptable at UNC. It hsould also not be acceptable at MU.
Boeheim has missed, but he has also been there forever and with everything he has done for that program he has earned the right for a slip up or two. Wojo hasn't come close to earning that right...and he shouldn't be given it.
UNC missed the tourney in 10 with Williams.
I expect us to be ranked the majority of the time. Next year we should start in the Top 25 or be right out.
NCAA tournament every year, the rebuild is over. (Unless Wojo starts bringing in so many one and done's that roster turnover cause a bad season)
2 Conference championships
1 Conference Tournament championship (it's a crap shoot)
3 Second weekends of tournament (If getting 5 seeds or higher this should happen regularly)
TC went to 2 NITs following a FF and Buzz didnt make the tourney in his last year at MU.
There's definitely a difference between my hopes and the results I would be okay with. I think at the minimum, 4 NCAA appearances and Wojo reaching 200 career wins (would require over 20 wins/year).
But I also want at least 3 event level results. Something you hang a season on. I'd consider those to be conference titles, conference tournament titles, Sweet 16s, Final 4s, and national titles. Those could all be in one season, spread over 3 different seasons, or even just be one lucky run (3rd in Big East to at large to S16/F4/NC in a month).
I want sustained success, but I also want at least a few moments that make me say "this guy can get us to the next level."
Quote from: pbiflyer on March 26, 2019, 11:25:13 PM
We are a very unathletic team. Adding Koby and Greg is not going to significantly change that.
The problem is that the athletes and basketball players are different people.
Markus, Sam, and Joey are the three best players on the team but ordinary athletes (for D1 basketball players). Eke is probably the best pure athlete on the team but an incredibly raw basketball player.
That's why Wojo is targeting players who are both skilled and athletic in 2020. Torrence is a start, let's see who else he gets.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on March 27, 2019, 07:18:40 AM
The problem is that the athletes and basketball players are different people.
In my opinion, this isn't true at all.
The problem is that there are a limited pool where it's overwhelmingly obvious that someone is both athletic enough and skilled to be successful & dominant. If you cannot get the obvious ones (top players), you have to choose to either coach up athletes or have a system designed to minimize the deficiency in athleticism. Both can be successful paths....
In 5 years, my expectations are that Marquette will not have a coach named Wojo.
If things go badly, Wojo will be gone. If things go well, he'll be gone. Mediocre? Gone. Having a coach for an entire decade is unlikely.
Eat em if you got em. #Arbys.
Quote from: avid1010 on March 27, 2019, 06:56:39 AM
TC went to 2 NITs following a FF and Buzz didnt make the tourney in his last year at MU.
I should have caveated it with having a bad recruiting year as well.
TC's two classes after 03 were not good, we finally saw more success when he landed the 3 amigos.
Buzz had his fair share of recruiting misses but the JUCO finds offset that. The last year with JJJ being raw, Dawson, Duane injured, and Burton being the only need contributor coupled with he loss of Vander was too much.
There was a run there of 8 straight tournaments because recruits either panned out or we were able to supplement the roster i other ways so there is no reason it can't happen again.
Hopefully 5 years from now we won't be looking at it as 2 NCAA's in 6 years, but rather 6 straight NCAA's with a period of 1 in 5 in between the two streaks.
Our expectation should be competitive for an NCAA National Championship.
Will we get there every year? Heck no! But to expect anything less would be to accept mediocrity.
At day's end, Coach Wojo was hired to bring us back to the same status as the McGuire era. It's been slower than we like, but the goal should be an elite team in college basketball. One that can recruit as the best and stand tall against North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, Kentucky, Villanova and whoever else emerges in the next five years as the best in the business.
Quote from: muguru on March 26, 2019, 07:26:06 PM
Of course they shouldn't...but when is the last time any of them missed 3 times in a 5 year span..?? When's the last time a Kentucky, UNC, Duke, Kansas have missed?? I know Kentucky was in the NIT several years ago..But were right back in the NCAA's again and haven't missed a beat since...UNC did miss...under Doherty...guess what they did?? FIRED him. That's not acceptable at UNC. It hsould also not be acceptable at MU.
Boeheim has missed, but he has also been there forever and with everything he has done for that program he has earned the right for a slip up or two. Wojo hasn't come close to earning that right...and he shouldn't be given it.
2010 UNC missed with Roy Williams. Boeheim has missed. Coach K has missed.
Apparently taking real classes at UNC is also not acceptable, eh Guru?
The point is that even the elite coaches miss. The other point is that we aren't Duke, UNC, etc...so why do you keep comparing us to schools we have no business being compared to....because for one 8 year period we were like them?
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 27, 2019, 03:33:35 AM
Didn't one of her assistants get an MU player pregnant?
yes, and got fired from his head coaching job after she transferred to follow him.
Marquette was never in the same league as Kentucky, North Carolina or Kansas -- public universities that have won multiple national titles under multiple head coaches over the course of multiple decades.
But Villanova proves what's possible here.
There's a similar background, for one. Both Nova and MU are private Catholic universities with less than 15,000 students. Villanova was founded in 1842, Marquette in 1881. MU's basketball program dates back to 1916; Nova's to 1920. And the two schools won their first national title within 8 years of one another: MU in 1977 under the legendary Al McGuire, Nova in 1985 under Rollie Massimino.
The biggest difference is that Villanova found a successor who could build on the foundation Massimino established -- and who wasn't going anywhere else. Jay Wright took the reins as head coach of the Wildcats in 2001. Almost 20 years later, he oversees the dominant program in the Big East, one that's won 2 of the past 3 national titles.
Finding that perfect fit isn't easy. Neither is winning a national title. But that should always be Marquette's goal.
We must make the tournament every year.
I need to preface my expectations with the following: I don't care who coaches marquette basketball. I like Wojo, I liked Buzz, I liked Al, I thought KO was great... but that's a decision I don't get to make, so this isn't about coaching... it's actually about entertainment.
What I expect as a fan is:
- top 25 all the time
- NCAA tournament every year
- clean program
- be in the top 3 teams in an elite conference
- consistently get the top player in WI to maintain local appeal
- play in great early season tournaments in interesting locations
- beat UW every year
- create / develop / resuscitate another rivalry equivalent to the UW rivalry (Notre Dame?)
The above makes MU basketball very entertaining for me. It also makes it accessible because in the above case every game will be on TV which means I can watch from wherever I happen to be.
For me it's National Championship every other year. I wouldnt ask for winning the NC every year because that would be ridiculous. Also it is not too much to ask to win the NC in consecutive years at least once per decade. Anything less than that and the coach should have his ass run out of town. and as far as chico's and his crapshoot schtick, even a crap shoot comes up a winner once in a while.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 27, 2019, 09:27:15 AM
2010 UNC missed with Roy Williams. Boeheim has missed. Coach K has missed.
Apparently taking real classes at UNC is also not acceptable, eh Guru?
The point is that even the elite coaches miss. The other point is that we aren't Duke, UNC, etc...so why do you keep comparing us to schools we have no business being compared to....because for one 8 year period we were like them?
Hahahahahahahahah Ohhhh Chicos..smh...You mean the classes that the NCAA found no wrong doing for, because literally EVERY UNC student could have taken them?? Those classes?? I love how you spew nonsense and try to sling mud about other things when quite frankly I think you just do it to start fights/arguments. What's great about it is you talk about all of these things like the yare all so OMG horrible, how could anyone, anything do something like that. Because you have been the bastion of perfection in your life time, I'm sure.
Quote from: hairy worthen on March 27, 2019, 12:39:59 PMFor me it's National Championship every other year. I wouldnt ask for winning the NC every year because that would be ridiculous. Also it is not too much to ask to win the NC in consecutive years at least once per decade. Anything less than that and the coach should have his ass run out of town. and as far as chico's and his crapshoot schtick, even a crap shoot comes up a winner once in a while.
Yeah, how did bozos like Tom "Accept The Status Quo Every Day" Izzo or Jim "Mediocre Sounds Good To Me" Boeheim ever get named to the Basketball Hall of Fame after winning one measly national title after decades as head coaches?
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 27, 2019, 08:49:53 AM
At day's end, Coach Wojo was hired to bring us back to the same status as the McGuire era. It's been slower than we like, but the goal should be an elite team in college basketball. One that can recruit as the best and stand tall against North Carolina, Duke, Virginia, Kentucky, Villanova and whoever else emerges in the next five years as the best in the business.
Yeah, that's not happening. We need to stop thinking we're going to return to the dominance of the McGuire years. As Bob Dylan predicted, the times they did a change. We can aspire to be a top 20 program but the second best program of the decade, as we were under Al? Not going to happen. Sorry.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 27, 2019, 01:34:20 PM
Yeah, that's not happening. We need to stop thinking we're going to return to the dominance of the McGuire years. As Bob Dylan predicted, the times they did a change. We can aspire to be a top 20 program but the second best program of the decade, as we were under Al? Not going to happen. Sorry.
dgies gets it...That's EXACTLY what I want and have wanted for many years...to return to the elite of college BB. Just be grouped amongst them is fine with me...MU CAN get there...I have no doubt..Had Buzz not been run out, they would be getting ever so closer..that I'm confident in.
Quote from: muguru on March 27, 2019, 02:54:37 PM
dgies gets it...That's EXACTLY what I want and have wanted for many years...to return to the elite of college BB. Just be grouped amongst them is fine with me...MU CAN get there...I have no doubt..Had Buzz not been run out, they would be getting ever so closer..that I'm confident in.
Had Buzz not been "run out" the NCAA would have been on campus and we'd be on probation.
There are only a few truly "elite." Duke, UNC, Kansas and (maybe) Michigan State. UConn was but not anymore.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 27, 2019, 03:06:09 PM
Had Buzz not been "run out" the NCAA would have been on campus and we'd be on probation.
There are only a few truly "elite." Duke, UNC, Kansas and (maybe) Michigan State. UConn was but not anymore.
Kentucky an interesting omit.
I think dgies is not at all delusional. UConn, Butler and Gonzaga...geez maybe even Syracuse, look like the kind of programs dependent upon one stellar coach to get their programs to reach the promised land. Marquette, miraculously, does not mirror those programs...but in a sense is in a very small league of programs which have gotten very near the top of the heap under a myriad of coaches. O'Neill was a GrantHill run away from taking us there. Crean got us there. Buzz got us very near there multiple times. Coach K touched on this in his radio interview with Homer and Wojo. Marquette has sustained near-elite status over generations. There's no reason to put a limit on what we can do or who we can become.
Quote from: muguru on March 27, 2019, 02:54:37 PM
dgies gets it...That's EXACTLY what I want and have wanted for many years...to return to the elite of college BB. Just be grouped amongst them is fine with me...MU CAN get there...I have no doubt..Had Buzz not been run out, they would be getting ever so closer..that I'm confident in.
Uh... Dgies is on the same page that I am. Wojo is doing well, let's give him more time to succeed at creating Marquette "elite."
That is NOT your position. You want wojo fired.
Do you think before you post?
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 27, 2019, 04:31:23 PM
Uh... Dgies is on the same page that I am. Wojo is doing well, let's give him more time to succeed at creating Marquette "elite."
That is NOT your position. You want wojo fired.
Do you think before you post?
Why does it need to take so long?? Other Coaches have done better in lessor amount of times at programs...I mean hell, look how fast Buzz had MU in an Elite 8..Iowa State VERY seldom misses the tournament, and they do a lot of it with transfers.
Look, to me there is ZERO reason MU shouldn't be in the tournament every single year...and then win when they get there..At this point, if they did that..I'd be content. I don't think that's expecting a lot. But until that step is taken(winning in the tourney consistently), I think it's fair to wonder if Wojo is capable of doing that at MU, isn't it??
Quote from: muguru on March 27, 2019, 04:39:56 PM
Why does it need to take so long?? Other Coaches have done better in lessor amount of times at programs...I mean hell, look how fast Buzz had MU in an Elite 8..Iowa State VERY seldom misses the tournament, and they do a lot of it with transfers.
Look, to me there is ZERO reason MU shouldn't be in the tournament every single year...and then win when they get there..At this point, if they did that..I'd be content. I don't think that's expecting a lot. But until that step is taken(winning in the tourney consistently), I think it's fair to wonder if Wojo is capable of doing that at MU, isn't it??
You were talking about elite. Now you're talking about just being in the tournament.
Which is it?
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 27, 2019, 04:56:49 PM
You were talking about elite. Now you're talking about just being in the tournament.
Which is it?
Elite, but that's my point, in order to get there, you have to make the tourney every year and then...do something that many feel isn't all that important for some reason...win. If you win 6 games, you cut down the nets...which is ya know, every school that makes it goal.
You don't become Elite by never winning in the tourney, or by not making it at all...especially when you get a high seed.
Quote from: muguru on March 27, 2019, 04:39:56 PM
Why does it need to take so long?? Other Coaches have done better in lessor amount of times at programs...I mean hell, look how fast Buzz had MU in an Elite 8..Iowa State VERY seldom misses the tournament, and they do a lot of it with transfers.
Look, to me there is ZERO reason MU shouldn't be in the tournament every single year...and then win when they get there..At this point, if they did that..I'd be content. I don't think that's expecting a lot. But until that step is taken(winning in the tourney consistently), I think it's fair to wonder if Wojo is capable of doing that at MU, isn't it??
Patience grasshopper. How long did it take those other schooler? A long long long time. Dean Smith was hung in effigy, just to give you an example. Boeheim, people said he couldn't get it done.
I really think a lot of folks here would benefit from a course on what is elite, and how long it took coaches and/or programs to get there.
Is Gonzaga elite? They have a nice run going, but never won it all....but for years it was getting in and not doing much. So many other examples.
Your need more patience.
Quote from: muguru on March 27, 2019, 05:00:18 PM
Elite, but that's my point, in order to get there, you have to make the tourney every year and then...do something that many feel isn't all that important for some reason...win. If you win 6 games, you cut down the nets...which is ya know, every school that makes it goal.
You don't become Elite by never winning in the tourney, or by not making it at all...especially when you get a high seed.
I gave you the data the other day...Kentucky won those 6 games one time in last 20 years. Indiana. One time in 30. UCLA one time in 40, etc, etc. Gonzaga zero times. So on and so forth. It ain't easy being queasy.
Our hopes and expectations.
Black holes and revelations.
Quote from: muguru on March 27, 2019, 12:49:58 PM
Hahahahahahahahah Ohhhh Chicos..smh...You mean the classes that the NCAA found no wrong doing for, because literally EVERY UNC student could have taken them?? Those classes?? I love how you spew nonsense and try to sling mud about other things when quite frankly I think you just do it to start fights/arguments. What's great about it is you talk about all of these things like the yare all so OMG horrible, how could anyone, anything do something like that. Because you have been the bastion of perfection in your life time, I'm sure.
I'm well aware of the outcome and argued the same...and that is the correct argument as far as NCAA is concerned....they have no jurisdiction over it. That said, they (UNC) was allowing it. MU has some sluff classes, all schools do....but some schools take it to an extreme with majors and everything else.
Quote from: WarriorFan on March 27, 2019, 12:28:41 PM
What I expect as a fan is:
- consistently get the top player in WI to maintain local appeal
Why? I happen to be a huge fan of Marcus Domask, but you're honestly upset with Marquette because he's going to Northern Kentucky? Come on, dude.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 27, 2019, 01:34:20 PM
Yeah, that's not happening. We need to stop thinking we're going to return to the dominance of the McGuire years. As Bob Dylan predicted, the times they did a change. We can aspire to be a top 20 program but the second best program of the decade, as we were under Al? Not going to happen. Sorry.
I'm among the patient group of fans. But if Nova can reach the level they have reached over the past 5 years, then Marquette can reach that level too.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 27, 2019, 07:41:48 PM
Why? I happen to be a huge fan of Marcus Domask, but you're honestly upset with Marquette because he's going to Northern Kentucky? Come on, dude.
On this guy we agree... but he's not really a "top" Wisconsin guy. There's plenty of good basketball in the region and maybe not every year but it's important to get the top local guys. Guys like Vander, a couple guys named Jim from Racine, Tony Smith, Mike Flory, Wes, have been good for the program, and many of them have remained in/around the community after their playing days which helps build a community around the program.
Nevertheless if the top Wisconsin guy is ranked 90 and coach can land a top 20 guy instead, go with the top 20 guy.
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on March 27, 2019, 09:03:20 PM
I'm among the patient group of fans. But if Nova can reach the level they have reached over the past 5 years, then Marquette can reach that level too.
Maybe, but will you be willing to be that patient? From the comments here, people are not. Nova hired Wright in 2001.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BvSOGN2gVwh/
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on March 27, 2019, 09:03:20 PM
I'm among the patient group of fans. But if Nova can reach the level they have reached over the past 5 years, then Marquette can reach that level too.
I agree, though it's worth noting Jay Wright has now been there 18 years, so it took 13 years to reach the level Nova has reached.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 27, 2019, 07:45:43 AM
In 5 years, my expectations are that Marquette will not have a coach named Wojo.
If things go badly, Wojo will be gone. If things go well, he'll be gone. Mediocre? Gone. Having a coach for an entire decade is unlikely.
Same expectation for me.
I also expect to still be living and breathing and cheering for my alma mater, but I don't take that for granted, either.
Can Marquette do what Gonzaga and Nova have done? That would be cool and I hope it's possible. Logically, one would think it is possible. Then again ... nobody else is doing it, so it obviously ain't easy.
But again, even Nova wasn't NOVA! just a few years ago.
Wright was a D1 head coach for 7 years before he even got the Nova job. His first 3 years in Philly were worse than Wojo's first 3 years in Milwaukee and there were many in Nova Nation who felt he was the wrong guy for the job. He didn't make the FF until his 15th year as a coach. He followed that with a second-round exit, a first-round exit and -- in his 18th year as a coach, 11th at Nova -- a freakin' 13-19 season. He won the national title in his 22nd season, 15th at Nova. Reading many of the posts here, I don't think Wojo would be afforded the same patience.
As for Gonzaga ... they stunningly made the E8 in only Dan Monson's second year. He promptly bolted for Minnesota, where he was a failure. Followed in ZagLand in 1999 by Mark Few, who has taken them to the NCAAs every single year. Impressive. And yet, after they reached the S16 in 2011, they went 5 straight years in which they failed to make it to the second weekend. Maybe the more impatient among the Scoopers say they would be OK with that, but I'm not really sure.
It's a fun topic. I'm sticking with the expectations that 'topper and I share.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on March 27, 2019, 07:45:43 AM
In 5 years, my expectations are that Marquette will not have a coach named Wojo.
If things go badly, Wojo will be gone. If things go well, he'll be gone. Mediocre? Gone. Having a coach for an entire decade is unlikely.
Which is why, we will never be elite. That doesn't mean I'm not a fan, far from the case. It means the reality which is you cannot be elite without stability. No school has done it with constant turnover of coaches because the very nature of elite is to do it over a long, consistent period of time. I hope like hell he is here for a decade or two, it would be my dream in my lifetime to have a coach last 20 years. Not since Al have we had one last 10.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 27, 2019, 09:56:19 PM
Maybe, but will you be willing to be that patient? From the comments here, people are not. Nova hired Wright in 2001.
I am. As TAMU mentioned as long as we see consistent improvement and not a plateau for 3-4 years, I say stay the course.
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on March 27, 2019, 11:43:46 PM
I am. As TAMU mentioned as long as we see consistent improvement and not a plateau for 3-4 years, I say stay the course.
Right there with you, I hope the returns justify the emotional and financial investment. I hope other MU fans can get on board, too.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 27, 2019, 03:33:35 AM
Didn't one of her assistants get an MU player pregnant?
Yes, which is why I'm not satisfied with Terri Mitchell level performance -- I want to see her level of on-the-court success, PLUS no players getting pregnant.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 27, 2019, 11:09:32 PM
Which is why, we will never be elite. That doesn't mean I'm not a fan, far from the case. It means the reality which is you cannot be elite without stability. No school has done it with constant turnover of coaches because the very nature of elite is to do it over a long, consistent period of time. I hope like hell he is here for a decade or two, it would be my dream in my lifetime to have a coach last 20 years. Not since Al have we had one last 10.
It can still happen. You just have to get lucky and get a coach who never wants to leave. It is rare, but it can happen. It happened for Mark Few at Gonzaga.
If Brian Wardle became a Marquette-caliber coach, who knows, maybe he'd stay here forever. He's not ready yet, but he's still young. Maybe he will be ready for MU in 5-10 years.
Also, I don't think Wojo leaves for any job except Duke. And its not a shoe-in Duke would want him. Coach K could retire, Duke hire someone else, and Wojo could end up being here 20 years for all we know.
Quote from: Coleman on March 28, 2019, 08:52:38 AM
It can still happen. You just have to get lucky and get a coach who never wants to leave. It is rare, but it can happen. It happened for Mark Few at Gonzaga.
If Brian Wardle became a Marquette-caliber coach, who knows, maybe he'd stay here forever. He's not ready yet, but he's still young. Maybe he will be ready for MU in 5-10 years.
Also, I don't think Wojo leaves for any job except Duke. And its not a shoe-in Duke would want him. Coach K could retire, Duke hire someone else, and Wojo could end up being here 20 years for all we know.
I hope it does. I would love it to be 2035 and Wojo is leading the Warriors into the court. It would mean that many good things are in store. I hope it does.
Wojo waited for just the right head coaching opportunity. He wanted to be at Marquette. So I think there's a better-than-average chance he wants to stay here for the long term (assuming everything with the program is golden). But there's no way of knowing. We'll have to wait and see.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 28, 2019, 10:11:00 AM
I hope it does. I would love it to be 2035 and Wojo is leading the Warriors into the court. It would mean that many good things are in store. I hope it does.
Amen!
Kind of meaningless to predict 5 years out when we can not effectively predict 2 months out.