A lot of you guys are good with looking up stats. I am wondering- after Villanova won National Championship last year, is the Big East getting the Four and Five Star players in great numbers than the so called Mid-Major conferences?
I mean if someone has the numbers for the last two years and the coming year, is the Big East still contending for these players against the ACC, SEC, Big Ten?
Sometimes
Quote from: ryegge on March 21, 2019, 08:07:48 PM
A lot of you guys are good with looking up stats. I am wondering- after Villanova won National Championship last year, is the Big East getting the Four and Five Star players in great numbers than the so called Mid-Major conferences?
I mean if someone has the numbers for the last two years and the coming year, is the Big East still contending for these players against the ACC, SEC, Big Ten?
The Big East hasn't gotten a four or five star since 2013
From an eye test? It's what I feared a ten team jesuit conference would come to. Nova and Marquette ROFLstomping the rest, with one coming out of the ashes for a 6/7 seed occasionally.
Quote from: ryegge on March 21, 2019, 08:07:48 PM
A lot of you guys are good with looking up stats. I am wondering- after Villanova won National Championship last year, is the Big East getting the Four and Five Star players in great numbers than the so called Mid-Major conferences?
I mean if someone has the numbers for the last two years and the coming year, is the Big East still contending for these players against the ACC, SEC, Big Ten?
Everyone knew this year was a rebuild, next year most teams have a lot coming back.
Quote from: #UnleashCain on March 21, 2019, 08:12:14 PM
From an eye test? It's what I feared a ten team jesuit conference would come to. Nova and Marquette ROFLstomping the rest, with one coming out of the ashes for a 6/7 seed occasionally.
I wanted to join the A-10
Yes. The conference that got 2 #1 seeds last season and won 2 out of the last 3 national championships is becoming a mid major.
Quote from: MDMU04 on March 21, 2019, 08:14:42 PM
Yes. The conference that got 2 #1 seeds last season and won 2 out of the last 3 national championships is becoming a mid major.
.
How quickly they forget.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 21, 2019, 08:16:33 PM
.
How quickly they forget.
Probably forgot how bad the B10 was last year too.
Quote from: MDMU04 on March 21, 2019, 08:14:42 PM
Yes. The conference that got 2 #1 seeds last season and won 2 out of the last 3 national championships is becoming a mid major.
Nova*
Xavier had some hangon, but they are going down fast. Marquette has at least caught up to what they were supposed to be when the new big east started.
Let's not forget though that if Nova wasn't around this conference would have been a joke for the last 6 years.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 21, 2019, 08:11:44 PM
The Big East hasn't gotten a four or five star since 2013
Quinerly from Nova was five star and I believe Nova has two coming in next year. So just not true.
Henry was a five star. Markus would have been, maybe Joey if they stayed for senior years. There are others, have to research abit.
Quote from: MDMU04 on March 21, 2019, 08:14:42 PM
Yes. The conference that got 2 #1 seeds last season and won 2 out of the last 3 national championships is becoming a mid major.
+1,000
One down year and people are over-reacting. Most teams will be better next season.
Quote from: #UnleashCain on March 21, 2019, 08:19:21 PM
Nova*
Xavier had some hangon, but they are going down fast. Marquette has at least caught up to what they were supposed to be when the new big east started.
Let's not forget though that if Nova wasn't around this conference would have been a joke for the last 6 years.
That's why we needed to join the A-10
Quote from: MDMU04 on March 21, 2019, 08:14:42 PM
Yes. The conference that got 2 #1 seeds last season and won 2 out of the last 3 national championships is becoming a mid major.
That's why I asked the question, the BE was so good before this year, so I simply asked, has the recruiting fallen off previous levels. Or was it just a rebuilding year? Guess we shall see next year.
Hopefully Villanova holds on and Seton Hall plays well later.
I can see why some of the nba talent players that need more than a year to develop would choose a mid major to play in. Beat up the in conference foes and be the story come tourney time.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 21, 2019, 08:11:44 PM
The Big East hasn't gotten a four or five star since 2013
False on so many levels
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 21, 2019, 08:22:09 PM
That's why we needed to join the A-10
Ya, no...
But when the 2nd best game of the year is Xavier or Creighton instead of Syracuse, Notre Dame, Louisville, Pittsburgh, or Uconn, it leaves a hole in my fanbase. The great thing about the old Big East was there were enough big time schools that it didn't matter if 2 or 3 had a down year.
Join the big 12 eh
Quote from: #UnleashCain on March 21, 2019, 08:25:32 PM
Ya, no...
But when the 2nd best game of the year is Xavier or Creighton instead of Syracuse, Notre Dame, Louisville, Pittsburgh, or Uconn, it leaves a hole in my fanbase. The great thing about the old Big East was there were enough big time schools that it didn't matter if 2 or 3 had a down year.
Then we need to join the ACC
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 21, 2019, 08:27:08 PM
Then we need to join the ACC
That would have been great, but it either wasn't offered or MU said no. I hope it was #1.
Beat up the other major conferences in non-conference portion of the season and we will get more bids.
A benefit large team conferences have is they possess some major bottom dwellers. Other teams get to beat up on the bottom dwellers and boost their record in conference play. Then take a weak out of conference schedule with a lot of cupcakes and they have a decent record. A small conference where there is a lot of parity doesn't have that luxury.
Not to worry, we have the same players coming back and can look forward to more 3 star recruits while Vill, St Johns,X and Gtown have top 10 classes coming in. S. Hall good class too. So, we will win some games next year, get into the tourney and lose early or maybe get lucky and get to the S 16. SOS
Big East is a major. We are becoming a mid major
Lol
Quote from: #UnleashCain on March 21, 2019, 08:28:06 PM
That would have been great, but it either wasn't offered or MU said no. I hope it was #1.
No Football!!
That is why the 'new' BE was created out of non-football schools.
Quote from: AlienWarrior on March 21, 2019, 08:28:40 PM
Not to worry, we have the same players coming back and can look forward to more 3 star recruits while Vill, St Johns,X and Gtown have top 10 classes coming in. S. Hall good class too. So, we will win some games next year, get into the tourney and lose early or maybe get lucky and get to the S 16. SOS
Big East is a major. We are becoming a mid major
Who should Wojo kick off the team so he can recruit 4 and 5 stars for next year?
Quote from: #UnleashCain on March 21, 2019, 08:25:32 PM
Ya, no...
But when the 2nd best game of the year is Xavier or Creighton instead of Syracuse, Notre Dame, Louisville, Pittsburgh, or Uconn, it leaves a hole in my fanbase. The great thing about the old Big East was there were enough big time schools that it didn't matter if 2 or 3 had a down year.
UConn is trash in the AAC. Pitt's program is lost in the ACC.
I posted my concerns on this very same topic a couple weeks ago. Time will tell whether this is just a down year or a trend. I fear that because of the lack of national coverage, respect and success by non-Nova schools, more and more recruits will choose to attend ESPN promoted conference schools. I hope I am wrong, but the conference is definitely trending in the wrong direction.
Xavier and Villanova have huge recruiting classes coming in.
Quote from: Ron Swanson on March 21, 2019, 08:33:49 PM
I posted my concerns on this very same topic a couple weeks ago. Time will tell whether this is just a down year or a trend. I fear that because of the lack of national coverage, respect and success by non-Nova schools, more and more recruits will choose to attend ESPN promoted conference schools. I hope I am wrong, but the conference is definitely trending in the wrong direction.
That's why UConn fans are thrilled with their new TV deal with ESPN
Quote from: Ron Swanson on March 21, 2019, 08:33:49 PM
I posted my concerns on this very same topic a couple weeks ago. Time will tell whether this is just a down year or a trend. I fear that because of the lack of national coverage, respect and success by non-Nova schools, more and more recruits will choose to attend ESPN promoted conference schools. I hope I am wrong, but the conference is definitely trending in the wrong direction.
Big East schools are on national tv every conference game. Some big recruiting classes coming in. Not very many departures.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 21, 2019, 08:36:13 PM
That's why UConn fans are thrilled with their new TV deal with ESPN
No, they were pissed off.
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on March 21, 2019, 08:37:34 PM
No, they were pissed off.
They need to read scoop, then
Quote from: Cheeks on March 21, 2019, 08:24:30 PM
False on so many levels
Yeah, I am not even going to verify. Too many to list, but started and just off top of head, confirmed:
Brunson
Ponds
Govan
Bridges
Henry
Joey
Derrickson
Spellman
Whitehead
Diablo
Too many others, BE doing fine
Quote from: #UnleashCain on March 21, 2019, 08:19:21 PM
Let's not forget though that if Nova wasn't around this conference would have been a joke for the last 6 years.
If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle
Quote from: Cheeks on March 21, 2019, 08:36:54 PM
Big East schools are on national tv every conference game. Some big recruiting classes coming in. Not very many departures.
I understand that Cheeks and I hear you, but FOX is not ESPN. High School kids, watch Sportscenter and ESPN, not Butler and DePaul on FS2. I really don't think it is comparable....Hope I am wrong!!!
Quote from: Ron Swanson on March 21, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
I understand that Cheeks and I hear you, but FOX is not ESPN. High School kids, watch Sportscenter and ESPN, not Butler and DePaul on FS2. I really don't think it is comparable....Hope I am wrong!!!
I'm not sure anyone watches Sportcenter anymore. It's not the 90's. That why ESPN had that major fail in SC6. They can't get it correct, because nobody watches.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 21, 2019, 08:13:45 PM
Everyone knew this year was a rebuild, next year most teams have a lot coming back.
This.
And a Big East team has won 2 of the last 3.
Quote from: Ron Swanson on March 21, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
I understand that Cheeks and I hear you, but FOX is not ESPN. High School kids, watch Sportscenter and ESPN, not Butler and DePaul on FS2. I really don't think it is comparable....Hope I am wrong!!!
High school kids don't watch TV.
Quote from: LAZER on March 21, 2019, 08:18:47 PM
Probably forgot how bad the B10 was last year too.
And the Pac 12 last year and this year. And it was just a few years ago the SEC was garbage.
The chicken littles are out in force today.
This thread should be locked as enough stupidity has been spewed here.
5* freshman Bryan Antoine on Villanova is gonna set the league on fire next year. One and done player likely though.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 21, 2019, 08:52:59 PM
This.
And a Big East team has won 2 of the last 3.
This is losing its ring to it. National perception is Villanova is the huge fish in the small pond now I fear. Much like Gonzaga in the WCC.
Quote from: Ron Swanson on March 21, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
I understand that Cheeks and I hear you, but FOX is not ESPN. High School kids, watch Sportscenter and ESPN, not Butler and DePaul on FS2. I really don't think it is comparable....Hope I am wrong!!!
Thing is, people don't watch SportsCenter any more. Those shows are way down because people can get their sports fix from the internet, apps, etc.
Quote from: Ron Swanson on March 21, 2019, 08:43:52 PM
I understand that Cheeks and I hear you, but FOX is not ESPN. High School kids, watch Sportscenter and ESPN, not Butler and DePaul on FS2. I really don't think it is comparable....Hope I am wrong!!!
How old are you? Do you need a box of depends? This thinking was dated 20 years ago.
Hint, High School kids watch each other on Instagram, ask your grandkids about this new-fangled thing called the internet.
And while you're at it, check out Morant and Howard talking to each other on Instagram, you might learn something.
Quote from: AirPunch on March 21, 2019, 08:59:18 PM
This is losing its ring to it. National perception is Villanova is the huge fish in the small pond now I fear. Much like Gonzaga in the WCC.
Yeah I don't think so.
For some reason I have a taste for a beef n cheddar.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 21, 2019, 09:00:09 PM
Thing is, people don't watch SportsCenter any more. Those shows are way down because people can get their sports fix from the internet, apps, etc.
ESPN only exists for old people. No one under 25 even has cable, let alone watches ESPN.
It is more important for your coach to have a social media presence than getting praise on ESPN.
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on March 21, 2019, 09:00:18 PM
How old are you? Do you need a box of depends? This thinking was dated 20 years ago.
Hint, High School kids watch each other on Instagram, ask your grandkids about this new-fangled thing called the internet.
And while you're at it, check out Morant and Howard talking to each other on Instagram, you might learn something.
You're class act
Quote from: Ron Swanson on March 21, 2019, 09:05:27 PM
You're class act
Do you have any idea how stupid and out of touch you sound by saying this about ESPN? It is a comment about what a fossil you are.
Delete your account and start over, you have been permanently damaged.
Big east has been utter trash in the post season since realignment. Correct me if I am wrong but outside of Nova xavier is the only team to make the sweet sixteen once
Quote from: Johnny B on March 21, 2019, 09:17:27 PM
Big east has been utter trash in the post season since realignment. Correct me if I am wrong but outside of Nova xavier is the only team to make the sweet sixteen once
I call it The Big Least
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on March 21, 2019, 09:07:31 PM
Do you have any idea how stupid and out of touch you sound by saying this about ESPN? It is a comment about what a fossil you are.
Delete your account and start over, you have been permanently damaged.
The point I was making was in regards to the comment of Big East games being televised nationally on FOX. No matter how many kids are or aren't watching (and I actually agree that fewer and fewer kids are watching TV), more will tune in to an ACC game than a Creighton Xavier. That was the only point. But you keep sticking with the personal attacks to prove how "Lit" you are......
Quote from: Johnny B on March 21, 2019, 09:17:27 PM
Big east has been utter trash in the post season since realignment. Correct me if I am wrong but outside of Nova xavier is the only team to make the sweet sixteen once
The ACC is utter trash since the Big East realigned. Other than UNC and Duke, who else has made the S16?
The SEC is utter trash since the Big East realigned. Other than Kentucky, who else has made the S16?
The Pac-12 is utter trash since the Big East realigned, they only sent three teams to the tourney this year a 9, 11 and a first four team. The A-10 is stronger.
Shall I continue?
Quote from: Johnny B on March 21, 2019, 09:17:27 PM
Big east has been utter trash in the post season since realignment. Correct me if I am wrong but outside of Nova xavier is the only team to make the sweet sixteen once
Butler made it. Xavier with an Elite 8. Villanova with 2 titles.
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on March 21, 2019, 09:21:02 PM
The ACC is utter trash since the Big East realigned. Other than UNC and Duke, who else has made the S16?
The SEC is utter trash since the Big East realigned. Other than Kentucky, who else has made the S16?
The Pac-12 is utter trash since the Big East realigned, they only sent three teams to the tourney this year a 9, 11 and a first four team. The A-10 is stronger.
Shall I continue?
Uh Syracuse went final four a few years ago
Quote from: Johnny B on March 21, 2019, 09:24:29 PM
Uh Syracuse went final four a few years ago
As an 11 seed (lowest ever) after everyone screamed they should not have been in at all.
Hey, Loyola went last year, the Horizon is a high-major conference!
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on March 21, 2019, 09:26:07 PM
As an 11 seed (lowest ever) after everyone screamed they should not have been in at all.
Hey, Loyola went last year, the Horizon is a high-major conference!
Horizon and a 10 are.mid major. Big east is low major
Quote from: ryegge on March 21, 2019, 08:07:48 PM
A lot of you guys are good with looking up stats. I am wondering- after Villanova won National Championship last year, is the Big East getting the Four and Five Star players in great numbers than the so called Mid-Major conferences?
I mean if someone has the numbers for the last two years and the coming year, is the Big East still contending for these players against the ACC, SEC, Big Ten?
Should we shoot an email to the Horozon conference?
See if there is a spot to join UWM and UWGB?
Quote from: Johnny B on March 21, 2019, 09:27:37 PM
Horizon and a 10 are.mid major. Big east is low major
The U.S. Marine Corps' first sergeant major was Archibald Sommers
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 21, 2019, 09:32:59 PM
The U.S. Marine Corps' first sergeant major was Archibald Sommers
That's not recondite info
Quote from: Johnny B on March 21, 2019, 09:27:37 PM
Horizon and a 10 are.mid major. Big east is low major
That's for pulling a new term out of your a$$
Without Nova it is REAL bad. Nova is no different than Gonzaga carrying their conference.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on March 21, 2019, 09:48:48 PM
Without Nova it is REAL bad. Nova is no different than Gonazaga carrying their conference.
Should've joined the A-10
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 21, 2019, 09:51:04 PM
Should've joined the A-10
Another less than 100 post piece of sh!t.
Delete your account
Quote from: Johnny B on March 21, 2019, 09:27:37 PM
Horizon and a 10 are.mid major. Big east is low major
Big East is worse than the Horizon....it's hard to take you seriously at all with exceptionally stupid things out of your mouth.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on March 21, 2019, 09:48:48 PM
Without Nova it is REAL bad. Nova is no different than Gonzaga carrying their conference.
Or Kansas winning 13 straight Big 12 titles.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 21, 2019, 09:56:42 PM
Big East is worse than the Horizon....it's hard to take you seriously at all with exceptionally stupid things out of your mouth.
You took the troll bate man
No. Next question.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on March 21, 2019, 09:48:48 PM
Without Nova it is REAL bad. Nova is no different than Gonzaga carrying their conference.
Right on.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 21, 2019, 08:22:09 PM
That's why we needed to join the A-10
We went for the $$$, good move, I suppose. For the University, not for winning basketball.
Quote from: ryegge on March 21, 2019, 08:29:51 PM
No Football!!
That is why the 'new' BE was created out of non-football schools.
Great universities don't play big time football. One exception that will remain nameless and BC, but they stink. The Ivy league, NYU, George Washington, Johns Hopkins, Case, Washington, Chicago, Georgetown, it is a long list.
Giving up football was the best thing MU ever did. It was not even a decision, it was in the numbers.
Quote from: Johnny B on March 21, 2019, 09:17:27 PM
Big east has been utter trash in the post season since realignment. Correct me if I am wrong but outside of Nova xavier is the only team to make the sweet sixteen once
Also Butler.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on March 21, 2019, 09:48:48 PM
Without Nova it is REAL bad. Nova is no different than Gonzaga carrying their conference.
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on March 21, 2019, 10:03:31 PM
Or Kansas winning 13 straight Big 12 titles.
Or what Kentucky has meant to the SEC over the years.
Or Duke/UNC to the ACC
Or UCLA in the Pac-12
Nearly conference has a dominant team.
Quote from: MDMU04 on March 21, 2019, 08:14:42 PM
Yes. The conference that got 2 #1 seeds last season and won 2 out of the last 3 national championships is becoming a mid major.
yeah. This was a very down year for the Big East after we were basically a top 3-4 conference since the split. Hopefully it is the exception rather than the rule. We still need someone other than Villanova to has some sustained success.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 22, 2019, 07:03:52 AM
yeah. This was a very down year for the Big East after we were basically a top 3-4 conference since the split. Hopefully it is the exception rather than the rule. We still need someone other than Villanova to has some sustained success.
That "other team" is Georgetown. They have a pedigree that suggests they should be a 2 to 4 seed almost every year. They have been MIA for years now.
Will Ewing turn it around?
What the hell is this thread? People are just completely making stuff up. Even for scoop this is bad.
The Big East caused global warming.
The Big East has never put a team in the NCAA tournament.
The best recruit the Big East has gotten since reconfiguration was Matt Heldt in 1983.
Shouldn't this thread be titled "Buzz was right about the Big Least?"
It was a matter of time. It cracks me up, all the BE lovers are same guys bashing other coaches in BE for being bad. Buzz was right on the BE.
Quote from: Goose on March 22, 2019, 07:37:28 AM
It was a matter of time. It cracks me up, all the BE lovers are same guys bashing other coaches in BE for being bad. Buzz was right on the BE.
Well, if true then shut it down. Right? Why bother because football isn't coming to MU.
Personally, I think Buzz was absolutely not right about the Big East and that will prove out again the n3xt few years. Conferences go in cycles.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 22, 2019, 07:21:37 AM
What the hell is this thread? People are just completely making stuff up. Even for scoop this is bad.
The Big East caused global warming.
The Big East has never put a team in the NCAA tournament.
The best recruit the Big East has gotten since reconfiguration was Matt Heldt in 1983.
it happens after every loss. Low IQ trolls start making up crap and showing how stupid they are and not deserving of respect.
Topper should purge every account of fewer than 100 posts (as if yesterday).
Cheeks
You are right on cycles. Three mid major programs played at high level for quite some time. IMO, they go back to there normal place, mid majors.
Sigh, the Big East graduated a lot of talent last year, so it was down. Next year, they graduate very little talent so it will be up. It's really not that hard.
TAMU
I think you are flat out wrong on your beliefs on the BE.
Quote from: Goose on March 22, 2019, 08:37:29 AM
TAMU
I think you are flat out wrong on your beliefs on the BE.
That's fine. You were flat out wrong about this team being a bubble team. I imagine you will be flat out wrong about this as well.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 22, 2019, 07:21:37 AM
What the hell is this thread? People are just completely making stuff up. Even for scoop this is bad.
The Big East caused global warming.
The Big East has never put a team in the NCAA tournament.
The best recruit the Big East has gotten since reconfiguration was Matt Heldt in 1983.
I thought Matt seemed old.
TAMU
At least I own up when I am wrong.
About 2/3 of the BE teams lose no starters going into next year. Teams like Creighton and Xavier started shaky but grew exponentially throughout the season. They are talented and will be mote experienced next year. Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette, and others can be added to this group. Conference is going to be very strong next year.
Quote from: Goose on March 22, 2019, 08:48:24 AM
TAMU
At least I own up when I am wrong.
Most of the time, yes. And I appreciate that about you, not a common quality on the internet. I believe I do as well. Is there something you think I haven't owned up to?
TAMU
I think you have become more opinionated over last year or so. I have told you many times you know your stuff, but I think there is plenty you need to learn.
Quote from: Goose on March 22, 2019, 08:54:23 AM
TAMU
I think you have become more opinionated over last year or so. I have told you many times you know your stuff, but I think there is plenty you need to learn.
I don't deny that. But you didn't answer my question.
Those OBE teams who immigrated to the ACC (or AAC) don't seem to be faring too well either. The OBE was a great basketball league but the NBE is the best thing for these teams. It is a damn tough league, growing in popularity with two national titles and a very parity conference. My fear and Buzz's was it would be the AAC. It isn't.
Was it a down year? Yes, but when you have only ten teams, that happens and we knew this with the poor out of conference results. Next year the BE will return to a very nationally competitive league.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 21, 2019, 08:11:44 PM
The Big East hasn't gotten a four or five star since 2013
not only is this irrelevant, but wrong. any more $hit you guys want to throw at the wall here? hey, it's great to get 5-stars. spotlights on the program before the dude(s) even go to their first class.
what was henry, btw? now let me be clear, i'd love to have 5 of them coming in every year, but first, some questions-what was ja morant's rank coming out of high school? markus? there are many guys ranked by the "experts" who don't live up to their expectations and many whom the "experts" missed and/flew under the radar
a good program and school not only gets whiffs of some of the best talent in the nation, but should also recognize talent where others do not OR take a player with decent talent and recognize potential and challenge him to show the "experts" were wrong. a good coach(es) will take a 2/3 star and turn him into a dickie v diaper dandy. a good program will see a 4/5 star in a 2/3 star.
for what it matters, i found a couple of interesting articles on "experts" rankings of the most overlooked college basketball recruits of the last decade- hey! what's with murray state? they had isaiah canaan, kenneth faried and now ja morant just in the past 10 years. and these are some of the TOP COLLEGE players in the nation at that time. ever hear of a dude name steph curry(3 star)? damien lillard(3 star)? george hill was a 2 star coming in to IUPUI!!
ok ok, now i'm mainly speaking of guys that were under projected or missed, becoming pretty good college ballers. some of them just happened to become pretty good to great pros. but my emphasis is on high school to college. also, i'm sure we could dig a little deeper and find missed talent that became good college ballers that were merely unsung heroes or big role players that together helped a team go further into the dance.
bottom line-as we all know(or should know) there aren't many college coaches who can consistently recruit 4/5 stars by merely sending them a postcard. then there are some coaches who kids want to play for. then there are tho$e who ju$t $eem to be lured by the $uceSSeS of the program. and then some who really(gasp) want to go to that school for the education.
how about a coach(es) who can actually coach. turn good players into better ones. pardon me for this example, but bo ryan took mediocre players turned them into pretty good college players. he hadless than stellar luck with the 4/5 stars ironically, but i digress. now, if he coulda just kept the "rocket" in his pocket...
but here's a pretty good read for those who want to go "oh yeah, i remember that dude...
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2563653-ranking-the-most-overlooked-college-basketball-recruits-in-the-last-decade#slide16
TAMU
It is not that you do not admit being wrong as a rule, it is that you keep delaying the end game. There are a lot of next years in your posts over the years. I would say most of what you say will be right at some point of time. The BE might be a powerhouse again some time in the future. Anyways, all good by me. We have very different opinions on state of program and how to build a program and I am good with that.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 22, 2019, 08:32:13 AM
Sigh, the Big East graduated a lot of talent last year, so it was down. Next year, they graduate very little talent so it will be up. It's really not that hard.
I agree with this analysis
Quote from: Goose on March 22, 2019, 09:12:57 AM
TAMU
It is not that you do not admit being wrong as a rule, it is that you keep delaying the end game. There are a lot of next years in your posts over the years. I would say most of what you say will be right at some point of time. The BE might be a powerhouse again some time in the future. Anyways, all good by me. We have very different opinions on state of program and how to build a program and I am good with that.
Sorry Goose, you are wrong are at least misrepresenting what I have said. I have been consistent from Day 1 of the Wojo era. Year 1-2 rebuild. Year 3 make the NCAAs. Year 4 rebuild but still competitive. Year 5 high seed with a foundation to win in the future. All of that has come to pass.
I have also been consistent with the Big East. I said last year that the Big East will be down this year and it was. I am saying next year it will be back up again. If it isn't I will say I was wrong.
Quote from: Goose on March 22, 2019, 07:54:46 AM
Cheeks
You are right on cycles. Three mid major programs played at high level for quite some time. IMO, they go back to there normal place, mid majors.
Nm why bother. I'll just state that I strongly disagree with your assessment of Xavier. Creighton I agree, Butler I lean your way but am undecided.
Galway
Do you know the history of the program's I am referring to? If MU, with a very storied history, can have a 5-7 down periods over 40 years, why the hell are you convinced it cannot happen to X, Butler or Creighton? I do not want them to fall back to mid major programs, but it is quite possible they do. If the Wojo era rebuild is not proof on how hard it is to build a program, I don't know what is.
It is very hard to stay in top form when coaching changes happen. Both X and Butler have avoided the fall after a coach leaves, but it happens every where over time. What the BE is lacking is the 3-4 go to programs. Every big conference has a couple, or more, blue blood programs. BE has 'nova and a few flavors of the year. That is not a rip, just facts.
Quote from: Goose on March 22, 2019, 10:37:54 AM
Galway
Do you know the history of the program's I am referring to? If MU, with a very storied history, can have a 5-7 down periods over 40 years, why the hell are you convinced it cannot happen to X, Butler or Creighton? I do not want them to fall back to mid major programs, but it is quite possible they do. If the Wojo era rebuild is not proof on how hard it is to build a program, I don't know what is.
It is very hard to stay in top form when coaching changes happen. Both X and Butler have avoided the fall after a coach leaves, but it happens every where over time. What the BE is lacking is the 3-4 go to programs. Every big conference has a couple, or more, blue blood programs. BE has 'nova and a few flavors of the year. That is not a rip, just facts.
Yes, I am a data fanatic and keep massive spreadsheets comparing tournament histories by conference then breakdowns by decade. I have combed over their histories more times than I care to admit.
It's why I somewhat agree with you on butler as they essentially have no history prior to the late 90s. It's why I agree with you 100% on creighton as their lack of tournament success shows me that they benefitted from running a midmajor conference and have never been able to take the next step like Xavier, Gonzaga or Wichita St did.
Xavier I believe took that next step over multiple coaches and would be extremely hard to fall down the depaul hole.
Your last three sentences I agree with you entirely. I'm not as pessemestic about the long term outlook as regular season non conference success keeps us looking on par with any major conference but I do agree with you that it has been Nova and the flavour of the year.
Since the split and formation of the NBE every team has been to the NCAA Tournament at least twice, except DePaul. That doesn't happen in mid-majors. The BE tourney champion doesn't knock the regular season champ, or another high achieving team, out of the tourney. The regular season champ gets in every year, tourney championship or not. The conference tourney champ doesn't get a 13 seed. The NBE doesn't need the conference tourney champ to get a second bid.
The Big East has outperformed the Pac 12 since the formation. They're a Power 5. A few years ago they didn't get their regular season champ in despite a 14-4 conference record. I'd say that overall they've outperformed to been equal with the Big 12. The BE is NOT a mid-major by any stretch of the imagination. Even in a down year we got 4 bids (3 who did not get automatic bids). More than the Pac 12 (who needed their conference champ to get to 3).
The sky is not falling. Buzz wasn't right. Next year we're looking at 6. This is the best conference for MU.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 22, 2019, 12:17:34 PM
Since the split and formation of the NBE every team has been to the NCAA Tournament at least twice, except DePaul. That doesn't happen in mid-majors. The BE tourney champion doesn't knock the regular season champ, or another high achieving team, out of the tourney. The regular season champ gets in every year, tourney championship or not. The conference tourney champ doesn't get a 13 seed. The NBE doesn't need the conference tourney champ to get a second bid.
The Big East has outperformed the Pac 12 since the formation. They're a Power 5. A few years ago they didn't get their regular season champ in despite a 14-4 conference record. I'd say that overall they've outperformed to been equal with the Big 12. The BE is NOT a mid-major by any stretch of the imagination. Even in a down year we got 4 bids (3 who did not get automatic bids). More than the Pac 12 (who needed their conference champ to get to 3).
The sky is not falling. Buzz wasn't right. Next year we're looking at 6. This is the best conference for MU.
Nailed it! Nice work,
WarriorDad Billy.
We can all pine for the Old Big East--it was the greatest basketball conference ever assembled (11 teams in the tournament...ELEVEN!). All good things come to an end. We got lemons and made lemonade. Pretty good lemonade, to boot.
One thing I will point out about Creighton and Xavier is that they are located in respectably-sized metro areas that do not have fall/winter pro sports teams. At the very least that should translate into at least some level of sustained success.
Quote from: Eldon on March 22, 2019, 12:32:22 PM
Nailed it! Nice work, WarriorDad Billy.
We can all pine for the Old Big East--it was the greatest basketball conference ever assembled (11 teams in the tournament...ELEVEN!). All good things come to an end. We got lemons and made lemonade. Pretty good lemonade, to boot.
One thing I will point out about Creighton and Xavier is that they are located in respectably-sized metro areas that do not have fall/winter pro sports teams. At the very least that should translate into at least some level of sustained success.
The bengals are still a pro football team right?
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 22, 2019, 12:36:09 PM
The bengals are still a pro football team right?
lmao.
I meant to say no basketball teams. But then I thought to myself "well, those cities don't have any fall/winter sports."
I completely forgot about the Bengals. Can you blame me?
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 22, 2019, 12:36:09 PM
The bengals are still a pro football team right?
that's debatable. And, to give Eldon some leeway here, the Bengals never play past early January.
Quote from: Goose on March 22, 2019, 10:37:54 AM
Galway
Do you know the history of the program's I am referring to? If MU, with a very storied history, can have a 5-7 down periods over 40 years, why the hell are you convinced it cannot happen to X, Butler or Creighton? I do not want them to fall back to mid major programs, but it is quite possible they do. If the Wojo era rebuild is not proof on how hard it is to build a program, I don't know what is.
It is very hard to stay in top form when coaching changes happen. Both X and Butler have avoided the fall after a coach leaves, but it happens every where over time. What the BE is lacking is the 3-4 go to programs. Every big conference has a couple, or more, blue blood programs. BE has 'nova and a few flavors of the year. That is not a rip, just facts.
I have been around long enough to remember when X was solidly mediocre.
The breakthrough for their program came when they became a member of the Midwestern City Conference and by 1982 they were a winner, this winning started to accelerate when Pete Gillen became coach in 1985. They have never looked back. They just reload when a new coach comes through and keep rolling. .
I am thoroughly impressed with how Travis Steele ran their team this year. Faced with major holes in the lineup he went and recruited 3 graduate transfers to fill the gap. Then over the course of the season he coached the team up and had them performing at their best when it counts the most. Steele has 5 solid recruits coming in next year and a core group of solid veterans.
Bottom line in the 37 years since 1982, X has been an important and respected factor in college basketball.