Big East Quickly Becoming a Mid-Major

[Heisenberg]

yeah. This was a very down year for the Big East after we were basically a top 3-4 conference since the split.  Hopefully it is the exception rather than the rule.  We still need someone other than Villanova to has some sustained success.

That "other team" is Georgetown.  They have a pedigree that suggests they should be a 2 to 4 seed almost every year.  They have been MIA for years now.

Will Ewing turn it around?

[TallTitan34]

What the hell is this thread?  People are just completely making stuff up.  Even for scoop this is bad.

The Big East caused global warming.
The Big East has never put a team in the NCAA tournament.
The best recruit the Big East has gotten since reconfiguration was Matt Heldt in 1983.

[SERocks]

Shouldn't this thread be titled "Buzz was right about the Big Least?"

[Goose]

It was a matter of time. It cracks me up, all the BE lovers are same guys bashing other coaches in BE for being bad. Buzz was right on the BE.

[Cheeks]

It was a matter of time. It cracks me up, all the BE lovers are same guys bashing other coaches in BE for being bad. Buzz was right on the BE.

Well, if true then shut it down.  Right?  Why bother because football isn't coming to MU.

Personally, I think Buzz was absolutely not right about the Big East and that will prove out again the n3xt few years.  Conferences go in cycles.

[Heisenberg]

What the hell is this thread?  People are just completely making stuff up.  Even for scoop this is bad.

The Big East caused global warming.
The Big East has never put a team in the NCAA tournament.
The best recruit the Big East has gotten since reconfiguration was Matt Heldt in 1983.

it happens after every loss.  Low IQ trolls start making up crap and showing how stupid they are and not deserving of respect.

Topper should purge every account of fewer than 100 posts (as if yesterday). 

[Goose]

Cheeks
You are right on cycles. Three mid major programs played at high level for quite some time. IMO, they go back to there normal place, mid majors.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sigh, the Big East graduated a lot of talent last year, so it was down. Next year, they graduate very little talent so it will be up. It's really not that hard.

[Goose]

TAMU
I think you are flat out wrong on your beliefs on the BE.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU
I think you are flat out wrong on your beliefs on the BE.

That's fine. You were flat out wrong about this team being a bubble team. I imagine you will be flat out wrong about this as well.

[the eagle]

What the hell is this thread?  People are just completely making stuff up.  Even for scoop this is bad.

The Big East caused global warming.
The Big East has never put a team in the NCAA tournament.
The best recruit the Big East has gotten since reconfiguration was Matt Heldt in 1983.

I thought Matt seemed old.

[Goose]

TAMU
At least I own up when I am wrong.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

About 2/3 of the BE teams lose no starters going into next year.  Teams like Creighton and Xavier started shaky but grew exponentially throughout the season.  They are talented and will be mote experienced next year.  Seton Hall, Providence, Marquette, and others can be added to this group.  Conference is going to be very strong next year. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU
At least I own up when I am wrong.

Most of the time, yes. And I appreciate that about you, not a common quality on the internet. I believe I do as well. Is there something you think I haven't owned up to?

[Goose]

TAMU
I think you have become more opinionated over last year or so. I have told you many times you know your stuff, but I think there is plenty you need to learn.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU
I think you have become more opinionated over last year or so. I have told you many times you know your stuff, but I think there is plenty you need to learn.

I don't deny that. But you didn't answer my question.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Those OBE teams who immigrated to the ACC (or AAC) don't seem to be faring too well either. The OBE was a great basketball league but the NBE is the best thing for these teams. It is a damn tough league, growing in popularity with two national titles and a very parity conference. My fear and Buzz's was it would be the AAC. It isn't.

Was it a down year? Yes, but when you have only ten teams, that happens and we knew this with the poor out of conference results.  Next year the BE will return to a very nationally competitive league.

[rocket surgeon]

The Big East hasn't gotten a four or five star since 2013

  not only is this irrelevant, but wrong.  any more $hit you guys want to throw at the wall here?  hey, it's great to get 5-stars.  spotlights on the program before the dude(s) even go to their first class.
what was henry, btw?  now let me be clear, i'd love to have 5 of them coming in every year, but first, some questions-what was ja morant's rank coming out of high school?  markus?  there are many guys ranked by the "experts" who don't live up to their expectations and many whom the "experts" missed and/flew under the radar

     a good program and school not only gets whiffs of some of the best talent in the nation, but should also recognize talent where others do not OR take a player with decent talent and recognize potential and challenge him to show the "experts" were wrong.  a good coach(es) will take a 2/3 star and turn him into a dickie v diaper dandy.  a good program will see a 4/5 star in a 2/3 star. 

  for what it matters, i found a couple of interesting articles on "experts" rankings of the most overlooked college basketball recruits of the last decade- hey!  what's with murray state?  they had isaiah canaan, kenneth faried and now ja morant just in the past 10 years.  and these are some of the TOP COLLEGE players in the nation at that time.  ever hear of a dude name steph curry(3 star)?  damien lillard(3 star)? george hill was a 2 star coming in to IUPUI!!

    ok ok, now i'm mainly speaking of guys that were under projected or missed, becoming pretty good college ballers.  some of them just happened to become pretty good to great pros.  but my emphasis is on high school to college.  also, i'm sure we could dig a little deeper and find missed talent that became good college ballers that were merely unsung heroes or big role players that together helped a team go further into the dance. 

  bottom line-as we all know(or should know) there aren't many college coaches who can consistently recruit 4/5 stars by merely sending them a postcard.  then there are some coaches who kids want to play for.  then there are tho$e who ju$t $eem to be lured by the $uceSSeS of the program. and then some who really(gasp) want to go to that school for the education. 

    how about a coach(es) who can actually coach.  turn good players into better ones.  pardon me for this example, but bo ryan took mediocre players turned them into pretty good college players. he hadless than stellar luck with the 4/5 stars ironically, but i digress.  now, if he coulda just kept the "rocket" in his pocket...

but here's a pretty good read for those who want to go "oh yeah, i remember that dude...

    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2563653-ranking-the-most-overlooked-college-basketball-recruits-in-the-last-decade#slide16

   

[Goose]

TAMU

It is not that you do not admit being wrong as a rule, it is that you keep delaying the end game. There are a lot of next years in your posts over the years. I would say most of what you say will be right at some point of time. The BE might be a powerhouse again some time in the future. Anyways, all good by me. We have very different opinions on state of program and how to build a program and I am good with that.

[Herman Cain]

Sigh, the Big East graduated a lot of talent last year, so it was down. Next year, they graduate very little talent so it will be up. It's really not that hard.

I agree with this analysis

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

It is not that you do not admit being wrong as a rule, it is that you keep delaying the end game. There are a lot of next years in your posts over the years. I would say most of what you say will be right at some point of time. The BE might be a powerhouse again some time in the future. Anyways, all good by me. We have very different opinions on state of program and how to build a program and I am good with that.

Sorry Goose, you are wrong are at least misrepresenting what I have said. I have been consistent from Day 1 of the Wojo era. Year 1-2 rebuild. Year 3 make the NCAAs. Year 4 rebuild but still competitive. Year 5 high seed with a foundation to win in the future. All of that has come to pass.

I have also been consistent with the Big East. I said last year that the Big East will be down this year and it was. I am saying next year it will be back up again. If it isn't I will say I was wrong.

[Galway Eagle]

Cheeks
You are right on cycles. Three mid major programs played at high level for quite some time. IMO, they go back to there normal place, mid majors.

Nm why bother. I'll just state that I strongly disagree with your assessment of Xavier. Creighton I agree, Butler I lean your way but am undecided.

[Goose]

Galway
Do you know the history of the program's I am referring to? If MU, with a very storied history, can have a 5-7 down periods over 40 years, why the hell are you convinced it cannot happen to X, Butler or Creighton? I do not want them to fall back to mid major programs, but it is quite possible they do. If the Wojo era rebuild is not proof on how hard it is to build a program, I don't know what is.

It is very hard to stay in top form when coaching changes happen. Both X and Butler have avoided the fall after a coach leaves, but it happens every where over time. What the BE is lacking is the 3-4 go to programs. Every big conference has a couple, or more, blue blood programs. BE has 'nova and a few flavors of the year. That is not a rip, just facts.

[Galway Eagle]

Galway
Do you know the history of the program's I am referring to? If MU, with a very storied history, can have a 5-7 down periods over 40 years, why the hell are you convinced it cannot happen to X, Butler or Creighton? I do not want them to fall back to mid major programs, but it is quite possible they do. If the Wojo era rebuild is not proof on how hard it is to build a program, I don't know what is.

It is very hard to stay in top form when coaching changes happen. Both X and Butler have avoided the fall after a coach leaves, but it happens every where over time. What the BE is lacking is the 3-4 go to programs. Every big conference has a couple, or more, blue blood programs. BE has 'nova and a few flavors of the year. That is not a rip, just facts.

Yes, I am a data fanatic and keep massive spreadsheets comparing tournament histories by conference then breakdowns by decade. I have combed over their histories more times than I care to admit.

It's why I somewhat agree with you on butler as they essentially have no history prior to the late 90s. It's why I agree with you 100% on creighton as their lack of tournament success shows me that they benefitted from running a midmajor conference and have never been able to take the next step like Xavier, Gonzaga or Wichita St did.

Xavier I believe took that next step over multiple coaches and would be extremely hard to fall down the depaul hole.

Your last three sentences I agree with you entirely. I'm not as pessemestic about the long term outlook as regular season non conference success keeps us looking on par with any major conference but I do agree with you that it has been Nova and the flavour of the year.

[Billy Hoyle]

Since the split and formation of the NBE every team has been to the NCAA Tournament at least twice, except DePaul. That doesn't happen in mid-majors. The BE tourney champion doesn't knock the regular season champ, or another high achieving team, out of the tourney. The regular season champ gets in every year, tourney championship or not.  The conference tourney champ doesn't get a 13 seed.  The NBE doesn't need the conference tourney champ to get a second bid.

The Big East has outperformed the Pac 12 since the formation.  They're a Power 5. A few years ago they didn't get their regular season champ in despite a 14-4 conference record.  I'd say that overall they've outperformed to been equal with the Big 12.  The BE is NOT a mid-major by any stretch of the imagination. Even in a down year we got 4 bids (3 who did not get automatic bids). More than the Pac 12 (who needed their conference champ to get to 3).

The sky is not falling. Buzz wasn't right. Next year we're looking at 6. This is the best conference for MU.