1. Shooting. Wow. MU got all of the looks we have come to expect them to make. Sam....clang. Markus....clang.
2. While Georgetown hit their shots. Or got fouled. The defense didn't seem bad. Down the stretch, Ewing decided to isolate his guards and let them attack It worked well. Marquette's lack of team speed was exposed.
3. Turnovers weren't the problem. Rebounding was an asset. Except that last one. So, no bitching about that. All about the shooting.
4. I think the cumulative minutes played by Sam and Markus are coming home to roost. The lack of a second lead guard really hurts. Both look beat up.
5. What is and isn't a foul confuses me. An ounce of consistency would be nice
6. Those of you who wanted Markus to play less, congratulations.
7. Brendan Bailey had a game. But know your place. You are a catch and shoot guy. Not a dribble from the wing to the top of the key and then fire up a 3 off the dribble guy.
8. Free throw shooting mattered today. And efg% sure as hell did.
9. Marquette has now found 4 different ways to lose 4 straight games. Today, it was a hot shooting team. While Marquette was a cold shooting team. There is going to be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. As it should be. I don't think anyone can claim it isn't frustrating. Only thing to do now is try to regroup and move on.
Brutal, absolutely brutal.
This team is a complete and total embarrassment.
An utter collapse on all levels.
Seasons turned into a laugher. Very pathetic. Really can't think of another word
Wtf happened to this team. Reach a ten ranking then 4 straight losses to unranked teams. Insanely deflating. Just doesn't look like the same team at all
The right thing to do would be to donate our bid to a team that deserves it late in the season.
This team belongs in the NIT at this point.
Wojo just pissed away anything positive he has done so far this season. We are back to a "lucky to be here " type of team once again
What do you mean with #6?
Congratulations?
Do you think Markus was played well today? How about the last 5 minutes of the game?
Can we stop pretending that Marcus Howard's wrist is okay?
Quote from: MUDish on March 09, 2019, 03:56:06 PM
Brutal, absolutely brutal.
Actually played better on offense today. Just missed a million shot we normally make, particularly Sam and Markus. When Markus is not shooting well, those quick contested threes and wild forays into the lane look terrible.
FreethrowsdoMatta?
The four different ways we have screwed the pooch here makes it even worse. It would be comical if it weren't so depressing.
DePaul beat Georgetown by 32 points... hmm
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 09, 2019, 03:57:43 PM
FreethrowsdoMatta?
Free throws were a big positive for us. eFG% reigns supreme.
Avoided this place like a plague until they pulled out a win, but doesn't look like that's gonna happen again this year.
Absolutely pitiful way to end the season, no excuses just god awful basketball by everyone at some point during the slide. What makes it worse is there was so much optimism throughout the entire season and it all got thrown away at the worst possible time.
This team is lost. Wojo is lost. This season is now a mess.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 09, 2019, 03:57:36 PM
Can we stop pretending that Marcus Howard's wrist is okay?
I think by wrist you mean ego ?
Our guys are getting mauled (blood anyone) and the officials don't call it.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 09, 2019, 03:57:36 PM
Can we stop pretending that Marcus Howard's wrist is okay?
If his wrist is not OK he should stop taking bad shots. He has always taken bad shots but made a lot of them anyway, but the last few games his bad shots do not go in.
what the heck is wrong with markus. playing like absolute trash lately. can't remember a star play this pathetically for this long. look destined for one and done in both tournaments. what a buzzkill and pathetic way to end the season. someone needs to be held responsible, this program is a mess
The absolutely arbitrary nature of the officiating should be viewed as an embarrassment to the Big East and the NCAA. GT might have more complaints than MU, but I even lip read Markus saying to the ref "that's what he's doing to me so I thought I could do it".
Hopefully, the turnover issue is now fixed. If so, this team can still make some noise in the tourney. My prediction, Elite 8 if they keep turnovers in single digits.
Strange that our turnovers and offense did not cost us this one.
It was the defense today.
Quote from: warriors141 on March 09, 2019, 03:59:58 PM
what the heck is wrong with markus. playing like absolute trash lately. can't remember a star play this pathetically for this long. look destined for one and done in both tournaments. what a buzzkill and pathetic way to end the season. someone needs to be held responsible, this program is a mess
The program is hardly a mess. THe season is turning into one though.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 09, 2019, 03:59:33 PM
This team is lost. Wojo is lost. This season is now a mess.
This
Honestly, we played well overall. Controlled the boards, didn't turn it over, got a lot of open looks that didn't go down. Akinjo and McClung played out of their Fing minds, over half their shots had no business going in. If this wasn't the fourth in a four game losing streak I would chalk it up to bad luck and move on. 4 losses is a brutal way to end the season. Watch us win the next four in a row.
I thought we played pretty decent today. Gtown was just better today. Definitely got zero favors from the officials down the stretch. Gtowns offense was getting it into the lane, flailing and getting the call.
Free throws mattered today. Big time.
Turnovers we're much improved, but a few daggers late.
Team just hasn't been clutch last few weeks after winning a ton of close games throughout the season. It's a bummer but it is what it is at the point.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 09, 2019, 04:01:07 PM
Strange that our turnovers and offense did not cost us this one.
It was the defense today.
It was absolutely the offense that lost it
We could not guard Akinjo or McClure.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 09, 2019, 03:59:52 PM
If his wrist is not OK he should stop taking bad shots. He has always taken bad shots but made a lot of them anyway, but the last few games his bad shots do not go in.
He wasn't taking bad shots. He has nearly stopped shooting the step back 3. He is missing the tear drops and the lay ups and the free throws. IMO, the fact that he is only taking and missing the open 3's is an indicator of an unreported injury.
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 09, 2019, 04:00:33 PM
Hopefully, the turnover issue is now fixed. If so, this team can still make some noise in the tourney. My prediction, Elite 8 if they keep turnovers in single digits.
I'll have whatever you are smoking
If this team cant win with 5 turnovers they aint gonna beat little sisters of the poor.
Season is over. Put your paper bags on your heads and hope for the best yet another
"Maybe next year" mentality.
How long will this program be ok with that.
I think its the worst loss in Wojo era. Chance to win a co-title, 11 point favorites, at home on senior day and played a team that lost by 30 to Depaul, who starts two freshmen guards who outplayed our best guards by a long shot. You can use all the excuses in the world, but that was the worst.
10 missed free throws.
Only 5 turnovers
MU out rebounded them on offensive boards 15 to 6
AND STILL LOSE? Offense, its Markus dribbling around the key and thats it.
Markus turnover at end, along with two loose balls not collected lead to 7 points. Death.
Markus in last two games is 10 for 36(27%) from field and Sam went 2 for 11 today. MU missed 11 of its last 14 shots.
From a three seed to maybe a 6 in a week.
There is a lot of work still be done to get this program to elite status. Anyone that believes that major progress has been made over the last five years is kidding themselves. Take away a couple of wins they stole, and this is a bubble team in year five.
Everyone here wants MU to win to high level and I believe that, but simply wanting it is not good enough. This team is exactly what I believed it would be going into the season.
Depaul beat this team by 32. This is an abysmal loss.
Quote from: nyg on March 09, 2019, 04:03:21 PM
I think its the worst loss in Wojo era. Chance to win a co-title, 11 point favorites, at home on senior day and played a team that lost by 30 to Depaul, who starts two freshmen guards who outplayed our best guards by a long shot. You can use all the excuses in the world, but that was the worst.
10 missed free throws.
Only 5 turnovers
MU out rebounded them on offensive boards 15 to 6
AND STILL LOSE? Offense, its Markus dribbling around the key and thats it.
Markus turnover at end, along with two loose balls not collected lead to 7 points. Death.
Markus in last two games is 10 for 36(27%) from field and Sam went 2 for 11 today. MU missed 11 of its last 14 shots.
From a three seed to maybe a 6 in a week.
6????? Probably a 7 at best now
Quote from: MUfanatic45 on March 09, 2019, 04:02:07 PM
It was absolutely the offense that lost it
Way off. Thanks for playing though. We gave up over 120 points per 100 possessions without giving up easy baskets due to turnovers.
I honestly thought we played really good defense. Georgetown made a lot of shots I wanted them to take.
We look skiddish on offense. Super disappointed in the last 4 games and blown BE title. But I'm going to try to appreciate the improvement over last year and the fact we return everything from a good team and welcome Koby, Greg and likely Symir.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 09, 2019, 04:05:00 PM
Way off. Thanks for playing though. We gave up over 120 points per 100 possessions without giving up easy baskets due to turnovers.
You are way off
Like you might be the only person saying the offense was good
So yeah, thanks for playing.
Quote from: warriors141 on March 09, 2019, 04:02:44 PM
I'll have whatever you are smoking
Absolutely. Team is done. Honestly i would respect a decision to go NIT if the lose forst round beast tourney. Ya its a crazy idea but they really do belong there at this point.
Has any ranked team this year gone 4 losses in a row 3 of 4 being unranked teams.????
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2019, 04:02:30 PM
He wasn't taking bad shots. He has nearly stopped shooting the step back 3. He is missing the tear drops and the lay ups and the free throws. IMO, the fact that he is only taking and missing the open 3's is an indicator of an unreported injury.
Disagree. On the lateral move 3 pointers with plenty of shot clock left are not good shots. Tear drops that he has to throw five feet above the basket to get over the defender are not good shots. Again ball movement stopped once he got the ball his first two possessions back from foul trouble. He missed 17 shots for goodness sake. A lot of them were bad shots.
Also, Sam had a horrendous shooting night, because he took mostly open in rhythm shots and missed them anyway. OOnly a couple head scratchers from him, if that.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 09, 2019, 04:01:44 PM
Honestly, we played well overall. Controlled the boards, didn't turn it over, got a lot of open looks that didn't go down. Akinjo and McClung played out of their Fing minds, over half their shots had no business going in. If this wasn't the fourth in a four game losing streak I would chalk it up to bad luck and move on. 4 losses is a brutal way to end the season. Watch us win the next four in a row.
Nopr. Nope. Nope. Just all kinds of nope.
We turned a very, very bad corner 3 weeks ago , and we haven't turned back. Wojo has no answers. Markus is sliding , and Sam hasn't stepped up to pick up the slack.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 09, 2019, 04:06:25 PM
Disagree. On the lateral move 3 pointers with plenty of shot clock left are not good shots. Tear drops that he has to throw five feet above the basket to get over the defender are not good shots. Again ball movement stopped once he got the ball his first two possessions back from foul trouble. He missed 17 shots for goodness sake. A lot of them were bad shots.
Also, Sam had a horrendous shooting night, because he took mostly open in rhythm shots and missed them anyway. OOnly a couple head scratchers from him, if that.
Disagree back. I can think of 2 shots that he took that, based on what we have seen before, that I wouldn't want him to take.
Quote from: MUfanatic45 on March 09, 2019, 04:06:00 PM
You are way off
Like you might be the only person saying the offense was good
So yeah, thanks for playing.
Did I say the offense was good? Nope. Defense cost us this game.
Quote from: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on March 09, 2019, 04:03:07 PM
If this team cant win with 5 turnovers they aint gonna beat little sisters of the poor.
Season is over. Put your paper bags on your heads and hope for the best yet another
"Maybe next year" mentality.
How long will this program be ok with that.
Ok you are insanely over sensitive and emotional about this. Relax. Suns coming up tommor
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2019, 04:02:30 PM
He wasn't taking bad shots. He has nearly stopped shooting the step back 3. He is missing the tear drops and the lay ups and the free throws. IMO, the fact that he is only taking and missing the open 3's is an indicator of an unreported injury.
HIs fade away in the corner was a terrible shot.
HIs wild off balance runner when up 7 that lead to gtown cutting it to 5 was a terrible shot.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 09, 2019, 03:59:33 PM
This team is lost. Wojo is lost. This season is now a mess.
Soo accurate it's scary.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 09, 2019, 03:59:23 PM
Avoided this place like a plague until they pulled out a win, but doesn't look like that's gonna happen again this year.
Absolutely pitiful way to end the season, no excuses just god awful basketball by everyone at some point during the slide. What makes it worse is there was so much optimism throughout the entire season and it all got thrown away at the worst possible time.
Agreed
Wojo is useless as a coach. Head back to Duke to shine Ks shoes. Let all the exvuse makers make attempts for this alleged coach because this performance is inexcusable. Sayanora Wojo.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 09, 2019, 04:07:55 PM
Did I say the offense was good? Nope. Defense cost us this game.
And you are wrong.
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 09, 2019, 04:00:33 PM
Hopefully, the turnover issue is now fixed. If so, this team can still make some noise in the tourney. My prediction, Elite 8 if they keep turnovers in single digits.
How ho ho
I don't understand the love affair this board has with Wojo. I think he is a decent coach not good or great by any means but if you say anything negative everyone jumps on you. What exactly has he done for MU than any other coach outside of him couldn't have done in the same 5 years?
The Woj era had a chance to add its first tangible victory today. 0-1 in the NCAA's, no BET title, no NIT titles, if you care about in season holiday tournaments, nothing there either. I'm not advocating getting rid of Woj, but today was the worst loss of the Woj era. Everything set up for MU, and I'm at a loss. Just an abysmal ending to what was shaping up to be a remarkable season.
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2019, 03:55:14 PM
1. Shooting. Wow. MU got all of the looks we have come to expect them to make. Sam....clang. Markus....clang.
2. While Georgetown hit their shots. Or got fouled. The defense didn't seem bad. Down the stretch, Ewing decided to isolate his guards and let them attack It worked well. Marquette's lack of team speed was exposed.
3. Turnovers weren't the problem. Rebounding was an asset. Except that last one. So, no bitching about that. All about the shooting.
4. I think the cumulative minutes played by Sam and Markus are coming home to roost. The lack of a second lead guard really hurts. Both look beat up.
5. What is and isn't a foul confuses me. An ounce of consistency would be nice
6. Those of you who wanted Markus to play less, congratulations.
7. Brendan Bailey had a game. But know your place. You are a catch and shoot guy. Not a dribble from the wing to the top of the key and then fire up a 3 off the dribble guy.
8. Free throw shooting mattered today. And efg% sure as hell did.
9. Marquette has now found 4 different ways to lose 4 straight games. Today, it was a hot shooting team. While Marquette was a cold shooting team. There is going to be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. As it should be. I don't think anyone can claim it isn't frustrating. Only thing to do now is try to regroup and move on.
#4 is pure BS. every team's best players play a lot of minutes and carry the load. That's just a poor excuse.
The problem is MH carried the team most of the season and now that teams have figured out how to defend him, Mu hasn't adjusted. Today the team actually played better today, but ran into a hot shooting team.Problem is it came after 3 prior losses.
Quote from: MUDish on March 09, 2019, 04:11:38 PM
The Woj era had a chance to add its first tangible victory today. 0-1 in the NCAA's, no BET title, no NIT titles, if you care about in season holiday tournaments, nothing there either. I'm not advocating getting rid of Woj, but today was the worst loss of the Woj era. Everything set up for MU, and I'm at a loss. Just an abysmal ending to what was shaping up to be a remarkable season.
Couldn't agree more. You would think Wojo, Stan, Brett (ugh) make enough money to have these kids win 1 home game for Hardware. Wow. What a complete Joke.
Quote from: MUfanatic45 on March 09, 2019, 04:10:51 PM
And you are wrong.
Not really a good argument. When you foul time and time again and put guys on the line you are not going to win games. Some of the calls perhaps questionable but the defense of the second half was too physical on how the game was being called. The offense wasn't good but the defense gave up way too many points in the half court.
Imo Wojo should have been terminated with a missed NCAA this year. Or at least the seat should have been red hot. Very thankful this losing streak happened when it did and the season regular season is over. Happy to be going to the tournament and hopefully they can turn it around now.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 09, 2019, 04:09:48 PM
Agreed
Wojo is useless as a coach. Head back to Duke to shine Ks shoes. Let all the exvuse makers make attempts for this alleged coach because this performance is inexcusable. Sayanora Wojo.
There is almost no possible way outside of a scandal that wojo would ever be let go by this admin. And that is a problem. Im not saying i know of a better candidate right now. But what exactly would it take to lose his job? Would last place in the beast even do it. Not so sure. There is no end point for this mans job based on performance and that is a problem.
Quote from: MUDish on March 09, 2019, 04:11:38 PM
The Woj era had a chance to add its first tangible victory today. 0-1 in the NCAA's, no BET title, no NIT titles, if you care about in season holiday tournaments, nothing there either. I'm not advocating getting rid of Woj, but today was the worst loss of the Woj era. Everything set up for MU, and I'm at a loss. Just an abysmal ending to what was shaping up to be a remarkable season.
Wait until we get a Murray St matchup in the 6-11 and get bounced. They might get it together for 1 in NY next week, but I have zero confidence in the beating a team of any substance in the NCAA in that 10-11 range.
The losses aren't as troubling as they fact that Wojo has lost the team and they have zero ability to execute late.
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 09, 2019, 04:11:13 PM
I don't understand the love affair this board has with Wojo. I think he is a decent coach not good or great by any means but if you say anything negative everyone jumps on you. What exactly has he done for MU than any other coach outside of him couldn't have done in the same 5 years?
Completely disagree. Nobody is allowed to say anything positive or else they are told they are wrong. Agree on your analysis of his coaching for the most part.
Hairy
There are always a half dozen excuses on this board for why they lost. Whether it is the refs, injury, Elliott redshirting, to who announced the game. They were ten point favorites at home and did not get it done.
Quote from: nyg on March 09, 2019, 04:03:21 PM
I think its the worst loss in Wojo era. Chance to win a co-title, 11 point favorites, at home on senior day and played a team that lost by 30 to Depaul, who starts two freshmen guards who outplayed our best guards by a long shot. You can use all the excuses in the world, but that was the worst.
10 missed free throws.
Only 5 turnovers
MU out rebounded them on offensive boards 15 to 6
AND STILL LOSE? Offense, its Markus dribbling around the key and thats it.
Markus turnover at end, along with two loose balls not collected lead to 7 points. Death.
Markus in last two games is 10 for 36(27%) from field and Sam went 2 for 11 today. MU missed 11 of its last 14 shots.
From a three seed to maybe a 6 in a week.
I may have to agree with you. If we win, we win a share of the Big East title and it relieves the pain from the past 3 losses. Add to it, senior day for Martty, last home game of the year and 11 point favorites.
This isn't a problem of the team not being focused, or not ready to play. It's larger than that.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 09, 2019, 04:14:43 PM
Not really a good argument. When you foul time and time again and put guys on the line you are not going to win games. Some of the calls perhaps questionable but the defense of the second half was too physical on how the game was being called. The offense wasn't good but the defense gave up way too many points in the half court.
Really think the refs got about 8 consecutive calls wrong at the end both ways.
Quote from: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on March 09, 2019, 04:15:40 PM
There is almost no possible way outside of a scandal that wojo would ever be let go by this admin. And that is a problem. Im not saying i know of a better candidate right now. But what exactly would it take to lose his job? Would last place in the beast even do it. Not so sure. There is no end point for this mans job based on performance and that is a problem.
+10000000
"2. While Georgetown hit their shots. Or got fouled. The defense didn't seem bad. Down the stretch, Ewing decided to isolate his guards and let them attack It worked well. Marquette's lack of team speed was exposed. "
Team speed? I don't know if it's completely that. McClungs drives were very well defended for the most part and he received some bailout calls. Lots of blocks at the rim we were called for fouls on the body and were questionable.
This losing streak is not due to the fact that teams have figured use out. We are not playing as we did for the majority of the season. Our big two missed a lot of shots they normally make and our big east player of the year took a lot of shots early in the clock that were bad and off balance. Missed rebounds at the end and 1-2 from the line most off the second will not get it done especially when we are playing tight.
This team will figure it out unless they are simply dog tired and Wojo macro managed the team the wrong way throughout the year.
These last few games are a huge lesson for this team. It will only make them better and lead to better opportunities this week and next.
I'm looking forward to the next few games and am personally optimistic.
Quote from: Goose on March 09, 2019, 04:16:55 PM
Hairy
There are always a half dozen excuses on this board for why they lost. Whether it is the refs, injury, Elliott redshirting, to who announced the game. They were ten point favorites at home and did not get it done.
Goose as always is spot on
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2019, 03:55:14 PM
1. Shooting. Wow. MU got all of the looks we have come to expect them to make. Sam....clang. Markus....clang.
2. While Georgetown hit their shots. Or got fouled. The defense didn't seem bad. Down the stretch, Ewing decided to isolate his guards and let them attack It worked well. Marquette's lack of team speed was exposed.
3. Turnovers weren't the problem. Rebounding was an asset. Except that last one. So, no bitching about that. All about the shooting.
4. I think the cumulative minutes played by Sam and Markus are coming home to roost. The lack of a second lead guard really hurts. Both look beat up.
5. What is and isn't a foul confuses me. An ounce of consistency would be nice
6. Those of you who wanted Markus to play less, congratulations.
7. Brendan Bailey had a game. But know your place. You are a catch and shoot guy. Not a dribble from the wing to the top of the key and then fire up a 3 off the dribble guy.
8. Free throw shooting mattered today. And efg% sure as hell did.
9. Marquette has now found 4 different ways to lose 4 straight games. Today, it was a hot shooting team. While Marquette was a cold shooting team. There is going to be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth and rending of garments. As it should be. I don't think anyone can claim it isn't frustrating. Only thing to do now is try to regroup and move on.
The Season of The Choke.....I want to believe but this squads spirit and mojo seems broken, they tried (at least) #IHateSports
Quote from: JWags85 on March 09, 2019, 04:16:04 PM
Wait until we get a Murray St matchup in the 6-11 and get bounced. They might get it together for 1 in NY next week, but I have zero confidence in the beating a team of any substance in the NCAA in that 10-11 range.
The losses aren't as troubling as they fact that Wojo has lost the team and they have zero ability to execute late.
Lol. "Lost the team." I swear this place comes up with dumber stuff each game.
Speechless with how this season has taken a downward turn so quickly. My only hope is that every year it seems like there's a team that plays poorly down the stretch and catches fire again into conference tournaments and March madness. Hoping that's us but haven't seen anything to make me confident.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 09, 2019, 04:19:10 PM
"2. While Georgetown hit their shots. Or got fouled. The defense didn't seem bad. Down the stretch, Ewing decided to isolate his guards and let them attack It worked well. Marquette's lack of team speed was exposed. "
Team speed? I don't know if it's completely that. McClungs drives were very well defended for the most part and he received some bailout calls. Lots of blocks at the rim we were called for fouls on the body and were questionable.
This losing streak is not due to the fact that teams have figured use out. We are not playing as we did for the majority of the season. Our big two missed a lot of shots they normally make and our big east player of the year took a lot of shots early in the clock that were bad and off balance. Missed rebounds at the end and 1-2 from the line most off the second will not get it done especially when we are playing tight.
This team will figure it out unless they are simply dog tired and Wojo macro managed the team the wrong way throughout the year.
These last few games are a huge lesson for this team. It will only make them better and lead to better opportunities this week and next.
I'm looking forward to the next few games and am personally optimistic.
There is part of me that feels the same way but this has to be tolling mentally on the players. To lose 4 straight games up or tied at the 5 min mark has to do something to you psychologically. If its not turnovers its bad shooting, it ifs not bad shooting its bad defense, its almost like they are finding new ways to lose. I still think they are a sweet 16 team because of the sharp shooters they have from 3 but at some point that might just die.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 09, 2019, 04:19:10 PM
"2. While Georgetown hit their shots. Or got fouled. The defense didn't seem bad. Down the stretch, Ewing decided to isolate his guards and let them attack It worked well. Marquette's lack of team speed was exposed. "
Team speed? I don't know if it's completely that. McClungs drives were very well defended for the most part and he received some bailout calls. Lots of blocks at the rim we were called for fouls on the body and were questionable.
This losing streak is not due to the fact that teams have figured use out. We are not playing as we did for the majority of the season. Our big two missed a lot of shots they normally make and our big east player of the year took a lot of shots early in the clock that were bad and off balance. Missed rebounds at the end and 1-2 from the line most off the second will not get it done especially when we are playing tight.
This team will figure it out unless they are simply dog tired and Wojo macro managed the team the wrong way throughout the year.
These last few games are a huge lesson for this team. It will only make them better and lead to better opportunities this week and next.
I'm looking forward to the next few games and am personally optimistic.
You're truly ridiculous. This team had a home game against an unranked team lead by freshman, with a chance to win a share of the conference championship. If you're not dialed in for that it's never going to happen.
It's not about how you start, but how you finish. We've been tipped over... chacater revealed. Team is just weak.
KenPom had MU around 25ish all season. KenPom is a better measure of talent than the weekly polls or our opinions. Realistically we have an opportunity in the BE tournament to turn it around but we look like we are past our peak and Wojo is Wojo.
Agree coaches like Al do not come around often at Marquette. They do at the top BB schools. We need to be realistic until our program proves otherwise. After more than 50 years of watching MU basketball this is getting to be a rather old story.
This is not a season of the choke. Fool's gold was served to those who wanted to buy it. This is a decent team, but light years from being elite. You need talent or great coaching to be elite and the program lacks both.
Excuses, excuses, and more excuses. Five years of EXCUSES! Excuses are the tools of incompetence. Wojo is an INCOMPETENT coach and should be removed ASAP,
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 09, 2019, 04:22:33 PM
Lol. "Lost the team." I swear this place comes up with dumber stuff each game.
You go from top 10 to unranked in 2 weeks. What do you call it?
A lot of people on here gave themselves unrealistic expectations for this team based on a gaudy record and ranking, that ultimately was the result of some luck in close games and a weak conference.
The metrics have had MU ranked in the 25-30 range pretty much all season. This was never a top 10 caliber team, if we're being honest.
The team isn't playing well at the end of the season, which is a big concern, but also the "luck" has faded as things aren't bouncing our way in every close game now.
Quote from: Goose on March 09, 2019, 04:26:12 PM
This is not a season of the choke. Fool's gold was served to those who wanted to buy it. This is a decent team, but light years from being elite. You need talent or great coaching to be elite and the program lacks both.
Fools gold was served? Whatever man.. so people wanted to believe this team was very good finally after 5 or 6 years of mediocrity. So what. Dont patronize people
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on March 09, 2019, 04:27:41 PM
You go from top 10 to unranked in 2 weeks. What do you call it?
Performing poorly.
Quote from: curbina on March 09, 2019, 04:27:04 PM
Excuses, excuses, and more excuses. Five years of EXCUSES! Excuses are the tools of incompetence. Wojo is an INCOMPETENT coach and should be removed ASAP,
Extreme. Let's see how this year plays out first. Then next year you have everyone back with McEwen and Elliott. Then talk about removing coaches.
You remove Wojo now and who transfers and leaves? A little patience would be prudent.
Quote from: curbina on March 09, 2019, 04:27:04 PM
Excuses, excuses, and more excuses. Five years of EXCUSES! Excuses are the tools of incompetence. Wojo is an INCOMPETENT coach and should be removed ASAP,
Extend him. Improvement year to year should be rewarded.
I'm stunned at how quickly this season went off the rails.
We have the talent to make some noise in the Dance, but we need to show some mental toughness that has been MIA lately.
Go Marquette!
Johnny B
Wanting to believe something does not make it true. It was fools gold and it made folks giddy with excitement. After six years of no NCAA success, I prefer substance over trying to believe in miracles.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 09, 2019, 04:30:38 PM
Extend him. Improvement year to year should be rewarded.
Probably sarcastic but correct. Year to year improvement the right way. And if he lands a loaded class with a decent year this year and a great one next then he has us rolling. Think big picture guys. You are micromanaging.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on March 09, 2019, 04:28:36 PM
The metrics have had MU ranked in the 25-30 range pretty much all season. This was never a top 10 caliber team, if we're being honest.
At the Connecticut get together for NMD when we played Nova, I said that even though we were ranked 10th I thought we were really around 20 and most there agreed. So I thought we were over-rated. But that doesn't mean we are regressing to what we are, because the number 40 team in the country doesn't lose those four games in a row, let alone the number 20 team. Especially when they only needed one to share the league title. We lost home games to Creighton and Georgetown for crying out loud. The road losses to Nova and SHU are understandable, though perhaps not the way we lost them. If you don't want to call it a choke, I'm fine with that. Let's call it a collapse.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 09, 2019, 04:35:48 PM
Probably sarcastic but correct. Year to year improvement the right way. And if he lands a loaded class with a decent year this year and a great one next then he has us rolling. Think big picture guys. You are micromanaging.
Agreed. The last four games have been brutal, but we are still getting better year to year. Starting over would put us back a couple of years and might cost us some very good returning players.
Quote from: Goose on March 09, 2019, 04:34:45 PM
Johnny B
Wanting to believe something does not make it true. It was fools gold and it made folks giddy with excitement. After six years of no NCAA success, I prefer substance over trying to believe in miracles.
This. I disagree with you tremendously about the outlook of next season and feel you underestimated us this season however you're still right that our start made for inflated expectations and as you put it "fools gold"
Let your winners run and cut your losses! Wojo, is a loser!
Goose was spot on with fools gold.
"They are who we thought they were" finally the luck ran out and the wheels fell off and here we are where the metrics have had us the whole time.
Was fun while it lasted. National programs talking about us. Markus was unstoppable. The hauser brothers deAdly duo.
All this has gone away and we are left with a big steaming pile with no reason to expect a different result at this point
Quote from: MUDish on March 09, 2019, 04:11:38 PM
The Woj era had a chance to add its first tangible victory today. 0-1 in the NCAA's, no BET title, no NIT titles, if you care about in season holiday tournaments, nothing there either. I'm not advocating getting rid of Woj, but today was the worst loss of the Woj era. Everything set up for MU, and I'm at a loss. Just an abysmal ending to what was shaping up to be a remarkable season.
But listen to the excuse makers, we are trending up. Hogwash. We sure have been trending in last 4 games.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 09, 2019, 04:35:48 PM
Probably sarcastic but correct. Year to year improvement the right way. And if he lands a loaded class with a decent year this year and a great one next then he has us rolling. Think big picture guys. You are micromanaging.
We are coming back with almost the same team as this year. What makes you believe we will be any better? Gtown is going to be better, as is Providence, X, Creighton and Seton Hall. No way we win 12 in the league next season especially now that every team knows how to play Markus.
Quote from: Johnny B on March 09, 2019, 04:29:25 PM
Fools gold was served? Whatever man.. so people wanted to believe this team was very good finally after 5 or 6 years of mediocrity. So what. Dont patronize people
Still mediocre, and trending down the toilet.
Quote from: Goose on March 09, 2019, 04:34:45 PM
Johnny B
Wanting to believe something does not make it true. It was fools gold and it made folks giddy with excitement. After six years of no NCAA success, I prefer substance over trying to believe in miracles.
There was substance. They beat good teams. Made it high in the polls. Had late leads in the last four games but just pissed it away. It's a good team. Yes they are not great and probably not top ten but they ain't some joke of a team. I think most people thought they were top 20ish which seems about right. But anyways..we can dream right :)
Johnny B
Even in a down year for college ball this is not a top twenty team. If they were, they get a four seed or better. It is a long season and they ended up falling short of being a top twenty team. Hey, I have been dreaming for 42 years and get it. That said, it is only a dream at this point.
Quote from: willie warrior on March 09, 2019, 04:48:52 PM
Still mediocre, and trending down the toilet.
Mediocre is NIT ish. This team will be a six seed. Should have been better. Yes they choked the last four away. Yeah its pathetic but reality is this is the best season we have had since the E8 year and its not even close. Maybe they turn it around and make a run. Maybe not. This is not some garbage team here. Just an awful stretch. They are better than this
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 09, 2019, 04:46:47 PM
We are coming back with almost the same team as this year. What makes you believe we will be any better? Gtown is going to be better, as is Providence, X, Creighton and Seton Hall. No way we win 12 in the league next season especially now that every team knows how to play Markus.
We are low on guards this year. We have Koby, Greg and Symir coming.
Why do everyone else's players improve next year and ours dont?
Quote from: Johnny B on March 09, 2019, 04:49:15 PM
There was substance. They beat good teams. Made it high in the polls. Had late leads in the last four games but just pissed it away. It's a good team. Yes they are not great and probably not top ten but they ain't some joke of a team. I think most people thought they were top 20ish which seems about right. But anyways..we can dream right :)
Its been more like nightmare!
Quote from: Goose on March 09, 2019, 04:52:19 PM
Johnny B
Even in a down year for college ball this is not a top twenty team. If they were, they get a four seed or better. It is a long season and they ended up falling short of being a top twenty team. Hey, I have been dreaming for 42 years and get it. That said, it is only a dream at this point.
4 top 20 teams get 5 seeds. That's likely where we will be.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 09, 2019, 04:46:47 PM
We are coming back with almost the same team as this year. What makes you believe we will be any better? Gtown is going to be better, as is Providence, X, Creighton and Seton Hall. No way we win 12 in the league next season especially now that every team knows how to play Markus.
Baring injury, I have complete confidence we will be better next year. We gain Elliott and McEwen, and only lose Heldt and Chartouney. Plus you have young players with another year's experience, Joey and Brendan specifically.
You are saying no way we win 12 games in the Big East next season? Assuming Howard returns, care to wager?
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on March 09, 2019, 04:52:43 PM
We are low on guards this year. We have Koby, Greg and Symir coming.
Why do everyone else's players improve next year and ours dont?
Because we have regressed over the last 4 games and obviously no one knows how to fix it.
Let's hang a banner, hey? Goose is spot on. This team is a 6 seed going into the Tourney. If we draw an athletic mid-major in the first game, we'll be waitin' on next year...once again.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 09, 2019, 04:58:26 PM
Let's hang a banner, hey? Goose is spot on. This team is a 6 seed going into the Tourney. If we draw an athletic mid-major in the first game, we'll be waitin' on next year...once again.
+1 Doc
Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 09, 2019, 04:55:29 PM
Baring injury, I have complete confidence we will be better next year. We gain Elliott and McEwen, and only lose Heldt and Chartouney. Plus you have young players with another year's experience, Joey and Brendan specifically.
You are saying no way we win 12 games in the Big East next season? Assuming Howard returns, care to wager?
I think it is going to take a lot better team to win 12 games next year than it did this year. I personally think we can do it again. A lot depends on McEwen. If he is as good as we hope and everyone else comes back, we will be a lot better next year. I tend to be pessimistic about newcomers, as they seem to be less than advertised more often than not. I think the inability of Chartouney to play a passable 10-15 minutes at PG is a huge unexpected problem for this team.
Quote from: MUpilot on March 09, 2019, 04:59:39 PM
+1 Doc
[/quo
Exactly May not win another game this year! From 11-1 in BE to 12-6 Tell me how many times that has happened to ANYONE EVER????
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 09, 2019, 05:02:18 PM
I think it is going to take a lot better team to win 12 games next year than it did this year. I personally think we can do it again. A lot depends on McEwen. If he is as good as we hope and everyone else comes back, we will be a lot better next year. I tend to be pessimistic about newcomers, as they seem to be less than advertised more often than not. I think the inability of Chartouney to play a passable 10-15 minutes at PG is a huge unexpected problem for this team.
Agreed. I am not saying McEwen will be a world beater but everything we are hearing he is much better than Chartouny in every facet sans defense. Plus Elliott plus the other young players getting better. I would be shocked if we don't win 12 games in the BEast next season.
I'm still processing the fact that we just lost to a team that lost to DePaul by 30.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 09, 2019, 05:02:18 PM
I think it is going to take a lot better team to win 12 games next year than it did this year. I personally think we can do it again. A lot depends on McEwen. If he is as good as we hope and everyone else comes back, we will be a lot better next year. I tend to be pessimistic about newcomers, as they seem to be less than advertised more often than not. I think the inability of Chartouney to play a passable 10-15 minutes at PG is a huge unexpected problem for this team.
12 wins shouldn't be too hard next year. I don't see the conference improving that much.
Peaked 4games ago
We may only pull out one more game. Wojo is done. This team is lost. Its all over.
Where is Guru's analysis
From 11-1 to 12-6 in BE. Name another team that has done that? Pathetic any way you cut it.
Quote from: Johnny B on March 09, 2019, 05:24:12 PM
Where is Guru's analysis
Hopefully not splattered on a wall somewhere
Lots of crazy here.
Only comment I have is I don't see posters making excuses so much as offering explanations.'
No please excuse me while I cope with this loss the only way I know how.
(https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/1194912/size/tmg-article_tall;jpeg_quality=20.jpg)
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 09, 2019, 05:42:05 PM
Lots of crazy here.
Only comment I have is I don't see posters making excuses so much as offering explanations.'
No please excuse me while I cope with this loss the only way I know how.
(https://assets3.thrillist.com/v1/image/1194912/size/tmg-article_tall;jpeg_quality=20.jpg)
I'll join you on one of those shots. Brought a bottle back to Galway with me.
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 09, 2019, 04:00:33 PM
Hopefully, the turnover issue is now fixed. If so, this team can still make some noise in the tourney. My prediction, Elite 8 if they keep turnovers in single digits.
Georgetown did not press us at all today.
I think the solution to our turnovers is hoping and praying not being pressured.
Quote from: Warrior1969 on March 09, 2019, 05:39:52 PM
From 11-1 to 12-6 in BE. Name another team that has done that? Pathetic any way you cut it.
Not that it really matters but we were never 11-1
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on March 09, 2019, 05:07:56 PM
I'm still processing the fact that we just lost to a team that lost to DePaul by 30.
32 actually - but it was a long time (3 or 4 days?) ago. The Hoyas have come a long way since then.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 09, 2019, 04:46:47 PM
We are coming back with almost the same team as this year. What makes you believe we will be any better? Gtown is going to be better, as is Providence, X, Creighton and Seton Hall. No way we win 12 in the league next season especially now that every team knows how to play Markus.
I guess I'm of the opinion the team will learn a lot from this year and with more experience and some better guard depth we will be ready to compete at the highest level next year.
DePaul musta bin a trap game for GU, hey?
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 09, 2019, 05:40:30 PM
Hopefully not splattered on a wall somewhere
That made me laugh. I needed that....
Marquette is fine..
Played better today.
I believe Markus is beat up, hausers have hit a wall, and bailey sacar morrow and Theo are improving. Next year will be fine and there is still a chance we catch lighting in a bottle.
Season is a disappointing ok at the moment and wojo is learning on the Job and recruiting the right talent going forward.
And I give you the next Lenny Bruce, hey?
4ever,
I am not yours to give....🤔
No comedy just facts without overreaction.
Waitin' on dat lightenin', doe, hey?
You and me both!
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 09, 2019, 06:40:20 PM
Waitin' on dat lightenin', doe, hey?
If dreams were thunder
And lightnin' was desire
This old house woulda burned down
A long time ago.
- John Prine, "Angel from Montgomery"
I'm going to summarize what I said in another post.
You guys are crazy.
If you get your way and sack Wojo, who do we attract?
Who will come here?
And what will happen to the guys we have and the guys on the line?
Are you prepared to cede the state to the Red Rodent?
Are you prepared to go back into rebuilding mode for three to five years?
This Warrior almost threw a beer mug through his TV today. But in a saner moment, we're better off than we were five years ago. Brother Goose is right. We're not close to elite yet. But we are going to the tournament. I hope we're headed where we need to be
Take those torches and put 'em out. We're not having a stake burning at Joan of Arc tonight.
People, relax. Go find a legal reefer in Illinois. Or take your vallium. But the world did not end late this afternoon.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 09, 2019, 07:56:58 PM
I'm going to summarize what I said in another post.
You guys are crazy.
If you get your way and sack Wojo, who do we attract?
Who will come here?
And what will happen to the guys we have and the guys on the line?
Are you prepared to cede the state to the Red Rodent?
Are you prepared to go back into rebuilding mode for three to five years?
This Warrior almost threw a beer mug through his TV today. But in a saner moment, we're better off than we were five years ago. Brother Goose is right. We're not close to elite yet. But we are going to the tournament. I hope we're headed where we need to be
Take those torches and put 'em out. We're not having a stake burning at Joan of Arc tonight.
People, relax. Go find a legal reefer in Illinois. Or take your vallium. But the world did not end late this afternoon.
dg - agree that sacking Wojo would be disaster - he's ours and we're his for better or worse. All we can do is hope its the former. TBD.
Quote from: Goose on March 09, 2019, 04:03:40 PM
There is a lot of work still be done to get this program to elite status. Anyone that believes that major progress has been made over the last five years is kidding themselves. Take away a couple of wins they stole, and this is a bubble team in year five.
Everyone here wants MU to win to high level and I believe that, but simply wanting it is not good enough. This team is exactly what I believed it would be going into the season.
why would it be okay to take away the couple of wins, just to get them on the bubble in your hypothetical? I mean, those wins were just that, right, MU won the games.
goinUptown
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 09, 2019, 03:57:36 PM
Can we stop pretending that Marcus Howard's wrist is okay?
Markus* you fucking moron.
The last 4 games have been nothing short of a disaster. Wojo has been outcoached, outclassed. We're dead in the water right now. The tape is out. We're going to struggle to win another game.
If we don't advance past the round of 64, Wojo should have some heat on his seat.
Both MU and Villanova lost 4 games down the stretch. Maybe the rest of the Big East just got better.
The worst part might be watching bucky dance past us once again into the latter rounds of the tourney even though we handled em this year ( barely)
Quote from: Warrior1969 on March 09, 2019, 05:39:52 PM
From 11-1 to 12-6 in BE. Name another team that has done that? Pathetic any way you cut it.
They were never 11-1. They were 8-1, and and 12-2.
Big East was stolen from us by zebras. Sam was fouled. Mac MacClung was gifted 8 free throws.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 09, 2019, 08:34:54 PM
Big East was stolen from us by zebras. Sam was fouled. Mac MacClung was gifted 8 free throws.
Get out of here. Refs weren't doing us any favors, but that's not why we lost.
We were 10 (10!!!) point favorites today. And we choked. Again. For the fourth time in a row. This team is lost. Wojo is lost. Our play lately has been terrible. I won't be surprised to see and 0-fer in NYC at this point.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 09, 2019, 08:39:13 PM
Get out of here. Refs weren't doing us any favors, but that's not why we lost.
We were 10 (10!!!) point favorites today. And we choked. Again. For the fourth time in a row. This team is lost. Wojo is lost. Our play lately has been terrible. I won't be surprised to see and 0-fer in NYC at this point.
We played like shit but that doesn't change that Sam was blatantly fouled and MacClung was sent to the line for flailing out of control repeatedly.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 09, 2019, 08:46:29 PM
We played like shit but that doesn't change that Sam was blatantly fouled and MacClung was sent to the line for flailing out of control repeatedly.
Baby eminem got some calls he shouldn't have, but that should not have mattered. We gave this away. On senior day. With a shot at the conference title. To reiterate - THE CONFERENCE TITLE! Awful effort. Awful coaching. Awful way to finish a promising season.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 09, 2019, 08:06:25 PM
dg - agree that sacking Wojo would be disaster - he's ours and we're his for better or worse. All we can do is hope its the former. TBD.
Agreed on both counts DG and Lenny. I think the 2020 class will be the determining factor. We get a loaded class and the program will continue in the right direction and the progress may accelerate exponentially. This will then satisfy even our most discerning fans (the ones who were prescient enough to see we are not good enough to win the national championship this year).
If it doesn't happen and we are mediocre for the next 2-3 years we either have to accept a ND path and make the tournament but flame out early most years or fire Wojo and hope like hell Goose and 4 ever are in charge of the next hire.
Shooter
So, you are saying we need a big time recruiting class in 2020? I'm good with that. How about 2019 or 2021? I think it would be great to have nationally ranked recruiting class every year.
Kinda sad that Lenny, 4ever, Goose, etc are just turning into their own brand of the '72 Dolphins aina?
Quote from: Goose on March 09, 2019, 09:55:57 PM
Shooter
So, you are saying we need a big time recruiting class in 2020? I'm good with that. How about 2019 or 2021? I think it would be great to have nationally ranked recruiting class every year.
Agreed. I think the 2020 class will be the bell weather class though and signal more rapid growth. Success breeds success. 2021 would hopefully fall into place. 2019 is done except for maybe Symir if he reclassifies or a grad transfer if someone leaves.
Oh, boo hoo, Marquette lost. You p*ssy fans surely have more important things in your life than how a college basketball team does (except guru). If your happiness depends on an elite basketball season, I feel sorry for you. It's not the 70's anymore (and thank God for that - bell bottoms and disco, ugh!). I like this team. I like Wojo. I don't apologize for that and I don't care what you think about it. This has been a fun season for me and there is more basketball to be played. I'm going to enjoy every minute of it. Thank goodness most of you moaners and whiners disappear in the off season.
Go Marquette!
Quote from: PTM on March 09, 2019, 10:04:22 PM
Kinda sad that Lenny, 4ever, Goose, etc are just turning into their own brand of the '72 Dolphins aina?
This is pretty funny.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 09, 2019, 04:35:48 PM
Probably sarcastic but correct. Year to year improvement the right way. And if he lands a loaded class with a decent year this year and a great one next then he has us rolling. Think big picture guys. You are micromanaging.
Not sarcastic at all. Love what Wojo is doing.
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on March 09, 2019, 10:23:24 PM
Oh, boo hoo, Marquette lost. You p*ssy fans surely have more important things in your life than how a college basketball team does (except guru). If your happiness depends on an elite basketball season, I feel sorry for you. It's not the 70's anymore (and thank God for that - bell bottoms and disco, ugh!). I like this team. I like Wojo. I don't apologize for that and I don't care what you think about it. This has been a fun season for me and there is more basketball to be played. I'm going to enjoy every minute of it. Thank goodness most of you moaners and whiners disappear in the off season.
Go Marquette!
I second this, despite the poor run of form the good far outweighed the bad this season. If we won every game, things would get pretty boring. The harder the journey they sweeter the reward. "If you're absent for my struggles, don't expect to be present during my success". Okay, I'll put my book of cliches away now.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 09, 2019, 10:24:50 PM
This is pretty funny.
Still determining which one gets to be Czonka.
I'm with MOM 100%. Been a great year and this little hiccup doesn't change that.
And I don't want to have the top rated recruiting class every year, at least until one and done goes away. I love learning about our student athletes over their years at MU.
Lastly, I didn't want the noon game on Thursday at the BET. Hope to see some of you at Mustang Harry's pregame in 4 days!
Go Marquette!
Quote from: PTM on March 09, 2019, 10:04:22 PM
Kinda sad that Lenny, 4ever, Goose, etc are just turning into their own brand of the '72 Dolphins aina?
Couldn't have said it any better
Quote from: bilsu on March 09, 2019, 08:17:02 PM
Both MU and Villanova lost 4 games down the stretch. Maybe the rest of the Big East just got better.
Excuses
I'm going to be the dissenter here and point out the following:
- following the turnover fests that were the last 3 games, the ball control this game was a huge improvement
- the guys ran the offense this time, and got a lot of good looks out of it.
- No hero-ball from anyone
- Wojo all but eliminated the ball screen for Markus and that helped initiate the offense and reduced turnovers
- Plays out of TO's were excellent
- Boxing out and rebounding were excellent. For those of you who think Joey is not contributing, watch him box out.
- Joey got some mojo back
- Nice bench minutes from Morrow, Bailey, Joe C
- The right guys got to the line at the end of the game
- Joey's 3 near the end was as clutch as they come
OK, they lost - and to a team they were supposed to beat, but a lot of improvements came through.
GT knows they need 21 wins to be in the tournament "for sure". Quite likely we'll be what's between them and 21 if we can dispose of Depaul/StJohns properly. It will be nice to have a chance for sweet revenge.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 09, 2019, 08:34:54 PM
Big East was stolen from us by zebras. Sam was fouled. Mac MacClung was gifted 8 free throws.
The Sam foul bothers me, and some of the Mac no-foul, fouls, but hit 2 wide-open shots or make a few free throws and MU wins. The refs certainly did not help, but MU had its chances.
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 09, 2019, 04:11:13 PM
I don't understand the love affair this board has with Wojo. I think he is a decent coach not good or great by any means but if you say anything negative everyone jumps on you. What exactly has he done for MU than any other coach outside of him couldn't have done in the same 5 years?
In 5 years Wojo has accomplished...nothing.
The season isn't over. But I have to believe, that deep down, every swinging dick here knows that the Wojo Experiment is in doubt
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 09, 2019, 04:01:44 PM
Honestly, we played well overall.
Honestly we didn't play well today. Let me start with the final score...
Quote from: Jon on March 10, 2019, 10:10:16 AM
In 5 years Wojo has accomplished...nothing.
The season isn't over. But I have to believe, that deep down, every swinging dick here knows that the Wojo Experiment is in doubt
That's certainly an interesting, um, categorization you used but count me out. I have no issue with his performance so far. I also have no say in the matter.
Quote from: Jon on March 10, 2019, 10:10:16 AM
In 5 years Wojo has accomplished...nothing.
The season isn't over. But I have to believe, that deep down, every swinging dick here knows that the Wojo Experiment is in doubt
In 4.9 years, Wojo has accomplished nothing significant. In that last .1 he has two opportunities to change that.
Quote from: Jon on March 10, 2019, 10:12:25 AM
Honestly we didn't play well today. Let me start with the final score...
We didn't shoot well yesterday. Georgetown did. Most of those Akinjo threes, McClung threes, and McClung trips to the foul line were not bad defense, they were tough as nails shots and some help from the stripes. We dominated the glass and the possession battle. We ran good offense that got open looks. We couldn't hit those looks. In a vacuum, that game concerned me a lot less than the other three did.
Outside the vacuum, four straight losses to close the season concerns me a lot.
OK, our 4 game meltdown was just a "hiccup" as some have suggested, and there is plenty of BBall left to play
So we are still the #10 team and BEast regular season champs. That means we can expect us to sail at least to the BEast title game, get a 3 seed for the Dance, and make a deep run in the Dance, because the last 4 games have been a hiccup. Wojo will slap the floor, pull the lads together, and "trend" us to all that. We should all be for that, and I for one will be pulling for Wojo to do so.
We've got this?
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 10, 2019, 10:29:08 AM
That's certainly an interesting, um, categorization you used but count me out. I have no issue with his performance so far. I also have no say in the matter.
I have doubts about Wojo. And from reading this board today from a downtown Milwaukee hotel I would suggest that I am not alone.
Wojo has not done much in 4.8 years at Marquette. He has the NCAA tournament in which to redeem himself. Anything less than a second weekend run will be a disappointment. A very bitter disappointment.
Has anyone said the last four games have been a hiccup? They were huge. In the blink of an eye, we went from a season where Wojo was on track to exceed season expectations regardless of how March went, and now we are in a position where he has to win multiple games in the BET and/or NCAAs just to consider expectations met. That's a dramatic trip and fall on your face type moment.
It will only be a hiccup if Wojo proves it. If the team wins in the BET and the NCAAs, then we can say it was a good season. If they win big, we can say it was a great season. 6 straight losses to end the season is unquestionably a bad season. Do I think it's a fireable bad season? No. But I'd say it turns up the heat under Wojo's seat.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 10, 2019, 10:30:26 AM
In 4.9 years, Wojo has accomplished nothing significant. In that last .1 he has two opportunities to change that.
We didn't shoot well yesterday. Georgetown did. Most of those Akinjo threes, McClung threes, and McClung trips to the foul line were not bad defense, they were tough as nails shots and some help from the stripes. We dominated the glass and the possession battle. We ran good offense that got open looks. We couldn't hit those looks. In a vacuum, that game concerned me a lot less than the other three did.
Outside the vacuum, four straight losses to close the season concerns me a lot.
I will agree with this to a point.
I was at the game. Akinjo was throwing up turds that kept splashing into the punch bowl. The defense on him and McClung was tight.
But this was Georgetown, a very mediocre team. We missed open looks and our bigs cannot finish to save their lives. This should have been a double digit win.
Motivation. Right before tip the team knew that The Hall took down Nova. They knew the Reg title was there for the taking. How they failed to cash in that chip is mind boggling.
The only way Wojo should get a pass is by getting these guys to the second weekend of the Dance. Otherwise his resume at Marquette is wanting. Very wanting, indeed, as well as in spirit.
Those calls that McGlung got over and over and over by literally flailing his body around were absolute and utter bull shiit. I've seen Markus try to draw that call about 97 times in 3 years without getting it a single time. Fireable offense for those refs.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 10, 2019, 11:13:16 AM
Those calls that McGlung got over and over and over by literally flailing his body around were absolute and utter bull shiit. I've seen Markus try to draw that call about 97 times in 3 years without getting it a single time. Fireable offense for those refs.
Yep. I have no issue with Sam not getting the foul call at the end. But GT had about 5 consecutive trips where they were bailed out with literally 0 contact.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 10, 2019, 10:43:42 AM
Has anyone said the last four games have been a hiccup? They were huge. In the blink of an eye, we went from a season where Wojo was on track to exceed season expectations regardless of how March went, and now we are in a position where he has to win multiple games in the BET and/or NCAAs just to consider expectations met. That's a dramatic trip and fall on your face type moment.
It will only be a hiccup if Wojo proves it. If the team wins in the BET and the NCAAs, then we can say it was a good season. If they win big, we can say it was a great season. 6 straight losses to end the season is unquestionably a bad season. Do I think it's a fireable bad season? No. But I'd say it turns up the heat under Wojo's seat.
Yes, I saw one post calling it a hiccup, and a number of others referring to it as such, but not the same words, stuff like "bad stretch" and so on. Point is, Wojo can and will pull the team together, which we are all for.
Quote from: Jon on March 10, 2019, 10:10:16 AM
In 5 years Wojo has accomplished...nothing.
The season isn't over. But I have to believe, that deep down, every swinging dick here knows that the Wojo Experiment is in doubt
This is wrong.
He took over a program that did not make the pos season to one that will appear in their third post season tournament in five years, finished second and still has games in front of them.
The end of the season has been disappointing every bit as much as the first 85% was wonderful.
We beat Big 12 champions K State. Beat Wisconsin 3rd time in four years. Beat defending national champion Villanova, beat Louisville, beat ranked Buffalo.
The other Big East teams improved. What I have noticed is since Marku was hurt at the end of Providence game, he has not been the same. Wrist or groin, not the same.
We have lost each of these games in different ways. Turnovers. Yesterday was terrible shooting. To say we have accomplished nothing doesn't seem accurate to me. This is a good team that badly needs a win right now.
DePaul is playing much better and St. John's at home will not be easy. Seton Hall essentially at home will not be either.
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 10, 2019, 12:03:58 PM
He took over a program that did not make the pos season to one that will appear in their third post season tournament in five years, finished second and still has games in front of them.
He took over a program that had made the NCAA tournament 8 of the previous 9 years with 2 S16s and 1 E8 in the 4 previous years.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 10, 2019, 12:19:11 PM
He took over a program that had made the NCAA tournament 8 of the previous 9 years with 2 S16s and 1 E8 in the 4 previous years.
Both of your statements are true. How about that!?!
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 10, 2019, 12:03:58 PM
This is wrong.
He took over a program that did not make the pos season to one that will appear in their third post season tournament in five years, finished second and still has games in front of them.
No,
this is wrong. He took over a program that was a year removed from 8 straight NCAA appearances and 3 straight Sweet 16s. They were facing no sanctions (despite the "other shoe" some on here have alluded to), have excellent facilities and recruiting resources, and play in an NBA arena.
And one of those post seasons he made was the NIT, a garbage tournament for garbage teams. Being satisfied with the NIT is what got Mike Deane fired, but under Wojo I guess it's the land of milk and honey. The High Volume Wojo Guys will do anything to prop up his overall mediocre tenure at Marquette.
But you know what? He still has a chance to redeem himself in the Tourney, and I hope he does. However, if we don't make the second weekend, his first five years here will have been lackluster at best.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 09, 2019, 08:34:54 PM
Big East was stolen from us by zebras. Sam was fouled. Mac MacClung was gifted 8 free throws.
We had 4 straights games to win the BE. One play in one game was hardly the reason. Maybe if Sam hit a few shots we would not be having this discussion.
Quote from: Jon on March 10, 2019, 10:43:48 AM
I will agree with this to a point.
I was at the game. Akinjo was throwing up turds that kept splashing into the punch bowl. The defense on him and McClung was tight.
But this was Georgetown, a very mediocre team. We missed open looks and our bigs cannot finish to save their lives. This should have been a double digit win.
Motivation. Right before tip the team knew that The Hall took down Nova. They knew the Reg title was there for the taking. How they failed to cash in that chip is mind boggling.
The only way Wojo should get a pass is by getting these guys to the second weekend of the Dance. Otherwise his resume at Marquette is wanting. Very wanting, indeed, as well as in spirit.
Agreed most shots were well defended. Ankinjo, Leblanc and Mcclung are going to be really annoying over the next three years.
I think the real question to ask is this -- give our roster of players to any coach you desire, how would this season be different from what it was? Coach K maybe could get another win or two out of this bunch due to straight up coaching, but the makeup of the team is fundamentally flawed. We do not have a point guard. That makes it very difficult to get much more out of this bunch than what Wojo got.
A good year considering the makeup of the team. So considering that, I guess it is question of whether or not Wojo has the recruiting skills and ability. I don't follow that as much as others, so someone else can answer that question. As far as coaching goes, I think he has come a long way in five years and certainly deserves a few more years.
Tough finish to regular season to be sure. But honestly, looking at this team we could lose our next two games and the season is over, or we could go on a Kemba type run. Both are possible. All depends on taking care of the ball and making the shots.
Correct. This feels like the incomplete (but exciting) roster that will hopefully get us the recruiting classes that will lead to more well rounded rosters in the coming years. Rosters we can all puff out our chests about with confidence.
Wojo is going to get two NCAA tournaments in a row with this flawed roster and I think that speaks to the upward direction of the program and him as a coach. Success will become exponential if he hits on the next class.
Best part is we can still do well in the next two weeks or flame out badly and the long term projection for this year has already been met. It would suck at 1,000 feet from the ground to lose this week and next but the 20,000 foot view is good and the Administration knows it.
2020 class is a big one. Will define Wojo.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on March 09, 2019, 03:57:36 PM
Can we stop pretending that Marcus Howard's wrist is okay?
Who is Marcus?
Quote from: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on March 09, 2019, 03:59:36 PM
I think by wrist you mean ego ?
No I'm pretty sure his wrist injury is worse than most think. After that fall he has not shot the same from deep or FT line (no matta, hey)
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 10, 2019, 04:30:05 PM
Correct. This feels like the incomplete (but exciting) roster that will hopefully get us the recruiting classes that will lead to more well rounded rosters in the coming years. Rosters we can all puff out our chests about with confidence.
Wojo is going to get two NCAA tournaments in a row with this flawed roster and I think that speaks to the upward direction of the program and him as a coach. Success will become exponential if he hits on the next class.
Best part is we can still do well in the next two weeks or flame out badly and the long term projection for this year has already been met. It would suck at 1,000 feet from the ground to lose this week and next but the 20,000 foot view is good and the Administration knows it.
2020 class is a big one. Will define Wojo.
Ugh. Many people on here were saying that years 5 and 6, when Markus and Sam were upperclassmen, would be the ones to define Wojo. However, since we've hit this skid, it's being said that this year's roster (and next year's, too!) is "flawed" and it really is quite an accomplishment after all that Wojo was able to win all these games with this island of misfit toys.
I call bullchit. First of all, college coaches are the GMs of their teams. Wojo himself is responsible for this "flawed" roster. He's been here five years, these are all his guys playing in his system.
Second, this team saw the additions of Morrow and Chartouney, a big man with two years of high major experience under his belt and a grad transfer point guard who was supposed to be the last missing piece that would take us over the top. Morrow's been less than advertised and Chartouney, outside of a game or two, has been a complete bust who barely got off the bench in the last game of the regular season. On paper, our roster might look "flawed" without those two guys who everyone thought would be just what we needed to take the next step. In reality, they just haven't been huge difference makers, and that's on Wojo and his staff.
And finally, we also added a freshman forward who likely would've been a McDonald's AA had he played his senior year of high school.
If that's what a flawed roster looks like, I'll take two! But yeah, let's wait for a recruiting class two years down the road before we can really evaluate Wojo.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 10, 2019, 12:19:11 PM
He took over a program that had made the NCAA tournament 8 of the previous 9 years with 2 S16s and 1 E8 in the 4 previous years.
This is also correct, but what I said is, too.
The question one needs to ask is what is more relevant to immediate success?
A team that made it several years ago but most of those players are gone and the existing roster plus incoming recruits are not that great?
In my opinion the greater indicator would be the most recent season and the roster you take over, both existing players and the recruits. When the previous coach leaves, kids tend to leave and it also hurts recruiting until the new person has a chance.
Do you disagree? Or is what you did a few years ago with kids no longer on the team the better predictor? If so, how?
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 10, 2019, 12:03:58 PM
This is wrong.
He took over a program that did not make the pos season to one that will appear in their third post season tournament in five years, finished second and still has games in front of them.
The end of the season has been disappointing every bit as much as the first 85% was wonderful.
We beat Big 12 champions K State. Beat Wisconsin 3rd time in four years. Beat defending national champion Villanova, beat Louisville, beat ranked Buffalo.
The other Big East teams improved. What I have noticed is since Marku was hurt at the end of Providence game, he has not been the same. Wrist or groin, not the same.
We have lost each of these games in different ways. Turnovers. Yesterday was terrible shooting. To say we have accomplished nothing doesn't seem accurate to me. This is a good team that badly needs a win right now.
DePaul is playing much better and St. John's at home will not be easy. Seton Hall essentially at home will not be either.
are you seriously counting a trip to the NIT in with your post season tourney appearances positive note for wojo??????
Quote from: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on March 10, 2019, 05:19:16 PM
are you seriously counting a trip to the NIT in with your post season tourney appearances positive note for wojo??????
Is a NIT appearance no longer considered a post season trip? Is the university removing the NIT championship banner and all the NIT appearances over the years?
Quote from: Newsdreams on March 10, 2019, 04:41:18 PM
No I'm pretty sure his wrist injury is worse than most think. After that fall he has not shot the same from deep or FT line (no matta, hey)
That is my hunch, or maybe he is wearing out. A little guy that is beaten up by bigger players all season long.
I understand the angst. But one year from today we will have been to 3 NCAA tournaments in 6 years, an NIT, have witnessed the all time scoring leader at MU play, have at least one if not two NBA draft picks, and the lynch pin (a loaded 2020 class).
That is all without knowing what post season success we will have this year or next.
I'm disappointed we did not win the Big East regular season title as well but it does not define the growth of the program in the big picture.
I could be absolutely could be wrong but I could see this accelerating with the right class.
If it doesn't, frankly I'm with you. But would be hard pressed to find another answer. Hopefully the right coach will fall in our laps.
Quote from: Research Report on March 10, 2019, 12:23:03 PM
No, this is wrong. He took over a program that was a year removed from 8 straight NCAA appearances and 3 straight Sweet 16s. They were facing no sanctions (despite the "other shoe" some on here have alluded to), have excellent facilities and recruiting resources, and play in an NBA arena.
And one of those post seasons he made was the NIT, a garbage tournament for garbage teams. Being satisfied with the NIT is what got Mike Deane fired, but under Wojo I guess it's the land of milk and honey. The High Volume Wojo Guys will do anything to prop up his overall mediocre tenure at Marquette.
But you know what? He still has a chance to redeem himself in the Tourney, and I hope he does. However, if we don't make the second weekend, his first five years here will have been lackluster at best.
Nothing I said was wrong. Factual. The year before, MU did not go to postseason. He has gone to 3 post season tournaments in five years. The success of MU two to five years prior to him taking the helm is nice, but most if not all of those players were gone and the existing roster and incoming recruits not that good. I'd rather judge a company on how they are doing on recent results, not 8 quarters ago. Same for my basketball program.
Quote from: Shooter McGavin on March 10, 2019, 05:27:05 PM
I understand the angst. But one year from today we will have been to 3 NCAA tournaments in 6 years, an NIT, have witnessed the all time scoring leader at MU play, have at least one if not two NBA draft picks, and the lynch pin (a loaded 2020 class).
That is all without knowing what post season success we will have this year or next.
I'm disappointed we did not win the Big East regular season title as well but it does not define the growth of the program in the big picture.
I could be absolutely could be wrong but I could see this accelerating with the right class.
If it doesn't, frankly I'm with you. But would be hard pressed to find another answer. Hopefully the right coach will fall in our laps.
Hasn't Wojo been here for only 5 seasons?
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 10, 2019, 05:29:14 PM
Hasn't Wojo been here for only 5 seasons?
'One year from today' is in the opening sentence.
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 10, 2019, 05:28:00 PM
Nothing I said was wrong. Factual. The year before, MU did not go to postseason. He has gone to 3 post season tournaments in five years. The success of MU two to five years prior to him taking the helm is nice, but most if not all of those players were gone and the existing roster and incoming recruits not that good. I'd rather judge a company on how they are doing on recent results, not 8 quarters ago. Same for my basketball program.
Pretty sure that team declined a postseason invite. Worth mentioning since apparently NIT's count as postseason appearances
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 10, 2019, 05:28:00 PM
Nothing I said was wrong. Factual. The year before, MU did not go to postseason. He has gone to 3 post season tournaments in five years. The success of MU two to five years prior to him taking the helm is nice, but most if not all of those players were gone and the existing roster and incoming recruits not that good. I'd rather judge a company on how they are doing on recent results, not 8 quarters ago. Same for my basketball program.
Your facts weren't wrong, but your premise was. The program Wojo inherited wasn't a dumpster fire, and the situation he walked into was similar to what most coaches face when they take over a high major team. Some roster turnover, some guys that didn't fit his style, etc. He hasn't been some miracle worker who took a moribund program and built it into a powerhouse. He's pretty much been subpar relative to program history.
But you know what? He's been here long enough that we no longer need to discuss what he inherited. The results speak for themselves: Zero NCAA tournament victories in four years. Will he finally get it done in year 5? I hope so.
Teams have figured us out.
I said earlier you need four scorers that on any given night can drop 15 points.
Once other teams learned how to shut down Markus and Sam we started to sputter.
Well, is it to late to incorporate the others into the offense?
Maybe.
Not worth losing sleep over.
C'est la vie.
Quote from: NCMUFan on March 10, 2019, 08:35:00 PM
Teams have figured us out.
I said earlier you need four scorers that on any given night can drop 15 points.
Once other teams learned how to shut down Markus and Sam we started to sputter.
Well, is it to late to incorporate the others into the offense?
Maybe.
Not worth losing sleep over.
C'est la vie.
I'm still not buying the "figured us out" narrative. We lost the four games in very different ways. Each team had a different defensive strategy against us. We also were winning or tied 87% of the way through each game. Did they wait until the end to release their secret strategy against us?
I think a more plausible scenario is that we got beat by an equal team on the road, then played like crap against Creighton, then had a subpar game on the road against a solid Seton Hall team, and then ran into Georgetown playing their best game of the season while we had a cold shooting night.
Quote from: Research Report on March 10, 2019, 06:05:43 PM
Your facts weren't wrong, but your premise was. The program Wojo inherited wasn't a dumpster fire, and the situation he walked into was similar to what most coaches face when they take over a high major team. Some roster turnover, some guys that didn't fit his style, etc. He hasn't been some miracle worker who took a moribund program and built it into a powerhouse. He's pretty much been subpar relative to program history.
But you know what? He's been here long enough that we no longer need to discuss what he inherited. The results speak for themselves: Zero NCAA tournament victories in four years. Will he finally get it done in year 5? I hope so.
It was not a dumpster fire, though there are members here that have described it that way. But it was also not close to the years you mentioned as the program he walked into, either.
Bad recruiting, roster not great and players questioning why the coach left means Wojo had his work cut out for him. He did not arrive on campus with the Sweet 16 or Elight 8 team. He arrived to a team that wasn't in the postseason.
Someone said we turned down the NIT bid? Is there evidence to support this? I do not know, but do not remember that happening or that rumor.
Dad, 3 years ago Luke Winn, then of SI, tweeted that Marquette has more RSCI Top 100 players than all the Big East combined. I believe the number was 9. Call them all busts but they all arrived with some fanfare and none of them was Anthony Candelino.
Let's cool on the empty cabinets talk. If anything the cupboards were all filled with bread and we were going gluten free.
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 10, 2019, 09:45:13 PM
Someone said we turned down the NIT bid?
It wasn't NIT, it was that new postseason tourney held in Vegas for something like 16 teams. They could only get about 8 and it blew up on them after the first year. The concept sounded good but in practice it did not work.
Not sure we got a bid or let it be known we would not accept one if offered.....
Quote from: The Lens on March 10, 2019, 11:24:47 PM
Dad, 3 years ago Luke Winn, then of SI, tweeted that Marquette has more RSCI Top 100 players than all the Big East combined. I believe the number was 9. Call them all busts but they all arrived with some fanfare and none of them was Anthony Candelino.
Let's cool on the empty cabinets talk. If anything the cupboards were all filled with bread and we were going gluten free.
Did those players translate into their ratings?
Deonte Burton ranked 54th, is a great player, but he did not want to play defense at the time and ultimately left Marquette. Mother passed away which added to decision
JaJuan Johnson ranked 30th, never lived up to that rating
Duane Wilson ranked 56th, never lived up to that rating. Nice player, wonderful teammate and more of a glue guy
Jameel McKey left before playing a single minute for Coach Williams
Sandy Cohen ranked 75th in Coach Williams last class. He is a mid major player
Steve Taylor Ranked 82nd in 2012 class. He is a mid major player
All these RSCI ranked players, but most never lived up to the billing, didn't stay long (or never arrived). Not even factoring in Todd Mayo having to be pushed out by Wojo. Juan Anderson was a mid major player.
The players coach Wojo took on that were largely overrated based on their recruiting numbers. Nice kids, some were good players, but not fitting their high school or AAU accolades. Burton was the exception. JaJuan and Duane were good, not great.
Quote from: SERocks on March 11, 2019, 07:33:23 AM
It wasn't NIT, it was that new postseason tourney held in Vegas for something like 16 teams. They could only get about 8 and it blew up on them after the first year. The concept sounded good but in practice it did not work.
Not sure we got a bid or let it be known we would not accept one if offered.....
That was my understanding, we never received a NIT bid and Marquette is not going to take any bid beyond the NCAA or NIT.
This article confirms no NIT bid in Coach Williams last year http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/nit-snub-leads-to-abrupt-end-of-marquettes-season-b99226497z1-250558831.html
Quote from: tower912 on March 10, 2019, 05:30:09 PM
'One year from today' is in the opening sentence.
Embarrassed. Missed that. :-[
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 11, 2019, 12:33:46 PM
That was my understanding, we never received a NIT bid and Marquette is not going to take any bid beyond the NCAA or NIT.
This article confirms no NIT bid in Coach Williams last year http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/nit-snub-leads-to-abrupt-end-of-marquettes-season-b99226497z1-250558831.html
So NIT is where you draw the postseason line. Got it. I think I speak for 99% when I say there's only one postseason that counts. This year will be Wojo's second postseason appearance. Let's hope he has more success this time around
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 11, 2019, 02:43:48 PM
So NIT is where you draw the postseason line. Got it. I think I speak for 99% when I say there's only one postseason that counts. This year will be Wojo's second postseason appearance. Let's hope he has more success this time around
How did you vote for the clean program?
Someone said it earlier, but if the university counts NIT appearances we should, too. One is preferred to the other, but I don't think you speak for the 99%. There is a reason that we hang and honor NIT teams over the years.
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 11, 2019, 12:31:41 PM
Did those players translate into their ratings?
Deonte Burton ranked 54th, is a great player, but he did not want to play defense at the time and ultimately left Marquette. Mother passed away which added to decision
JaJuan Johnson ranked 30th, never lived up to that rating
Duane Wilson ranked 56th, never lived up to that rating. Nice player, wonderful teammate and more of a glue guy
Jameel McKey left before playing a single minute for Coach Williams
Sandy Cohen ranked 75th in Coach Williams last class. He is a mid major player
Steve Taylor Ranked 82nd in 2012 class. He is a mid major player
All these RSCI ranked players, but most never lived up to the billing, didn't stay long (or never arrived). Not even factoring in Todd Mayo having to be pushed out by Wojo. Juan Anderson was a mid major player.
The players coach Wojo took on that were largely overrated based on their recruiting numbers. Nice kids, some were good players, but not fitting their high school or AAU accolades. Burton was the exception. JaJuan and Duane were good, not great.
Compare Wojo's RSCI guys and their contributions to those on Buzz's list at the end. No comparison.
A, our guys chose to play for MU and stick to the program. (B). They have been more productive.
Howard
Hauser
Hauser
Bailey
All made RSCI, all productive and several will go down in top 5 categories at this school.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 11, 2019, 04:06:13 PM
How did you vote for the clean program?
Someone said it earlier, but if the university counts NIT appearances we should, too. One is preferred to the other, but I don't think you speak for the 99%. There is a reason that we hang and honor NIT teams over the years.
I didn't. Relevance? This program is way above notching NIT appearances in our belt sorry. Feel free to start a poll with one of your many usernames
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 11, 2019, 04:20:08 PM
I didn't. Relevance? This program is way above notching NIT appearances in our belt sorry. Feel free to start a poll with one of your many usernames
All programs, even the UNC's, Syracuse, UCLA, Indiana, etc, etc, have a NIT appearances. NIT is better than no tournament at all. No on is saying NIT is the expected, but if every 5 years we go to the NIT and the other 4 are NCAA, I'll be thrilled....especially if we stay off the front pages of the Chicago Tribune. I have only this username at the moment. In my view last year's NIT helped this team. For some teams the NIT for a young team is great. For others, it is a disappointment. Depends on the year and situation, but to blanket crap on those appearances is just wrong.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 11, 2019, 04:29:35 PM
All programs, even the UNC's, Syracuse, UCLA, Indiana, etc, etc, have a NIT appearances. NIT is better than no tournament at all. No on is saying NIT is the expected, but if every 5 years we go to the NIT and the other 4 are NCAA, I'll be thrilled....especially if we stay off the front pages of the Chicago Tribune. I have only this username at the moment. In my view last year's NIT helped this team. For some teams the NIT for a young team is great. For others, it is a disappointment. Depends on the year and situation, but to blanket crap on those appearances is just wrong.
Crap on them? No. Crown them as achievements when giving Wojo's resume? Ehh, that's weak as hell, and that's what WD did
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 11, 2019, 04:30:54 PM
Crap on them? No. Crown them as achievements when giving Wojo's resume? Ehh, that's weak as hell
Then you are crapping on them. The goal is to get to the post season. First and foremost is the NCAA tournament. NIT is second, way down the list, but WAY WAY WAY above not making it at all. I'm sorry, but in some situations the NIT is an achievement. In other years a disappointment. 99.999999% would pick the NCAAs over NIT, as would I. But I'm guessing the vast majority would pick NIT over no tournament at all, but no doubt there will be the puritans that claim it is beneath MU to go to the NIT. If that's really the case, they should tear down every NIT banner we have....which of course would be ridiculous. So let's stop pretending an NIT is equivalent to no post season. It's an achievement, that is why we acknowledge it as a program.
No
I'm with Chicos here. I don't consider the NIT an "achievement" but I do consider it a sign that we had a season with some positive moments and some good wins vs. a bad season. It's a sign we were at least a competent team that could have been a tournament team with a few good bounces.
All well and good. And I agree it was great for the development of the team. But it's not a resume builder for Wojo. If his resume consisted of a bunch of NIT appearances and a couple NCAA no one is celebrating that. That's my point. It's the context which NIT was used that I disagreed with
I think the NIT is a waste of time and would rather Marquette make no postseason at all if they don't get into the dance. The NIT is a loser tournament for also-rans.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 11, 2019, 04:36:57 PM
No
No, it isn't an achievement?
Please let the university know we are honoring fake achievements....including our new locker room where we call out the NIT Championship. Should be removed...everyone gets a trophy.
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2018/08/27/PMJS/affca624-3abc-4f5f-81ca-aa4683070341-MUmen28_MUmen_desisti_01742.JPG?width=680&height=510&fit=bounds&auto=webp)
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2018/08/27/PMJS/136ff1c1-0b57-4e1a-8782-03a931424269-MUmen28_MUmen_desisti_01623.JPG?width=520&height=390&fit=bounds&auto=webp)
Quote from: Research Report on March 11, 2019, 04:54:35 PM
I think the NIT is a waste of time and would rather Marquette make no postseason at all if they don't get into the dance. The NIT is a loser tournament for also-rans.
The Dream and Pistol Pete disagree.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 11, 2019, 04:55:15 PM
No, it isn't an achievement?
Please let the university know we are honoring fake achievements....including our new locker room where we call out the NIT Championship. Should be removed...everyone gets a trophy.
No to you telling me what I'm doing when discussing the NIT. Don't do that
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 11, 2019, 04:57:13 PM
The Dream and Pistol Pete disagree.
Perhaps one of the older posters could confirm this, but wasn't the NIT a bigger deal back then than it is now? Like, almost just as good as the NCAA? I feel like comparing the NIT of 1970 to today's version is apples to oranges, but I could be wrong.
Quote from: NickelDimer on March 11, 2019, 04:46:15 PM
All well and good. And I agree it was great for the development of the team. But it's not a resume builder for Wojo. If his resume consisted of a bunch of NIT appearances and a couple NCAA no one is celebrating that. That's my point. It's the context which NIT was used that I disagreed with
What context was it used? Young coach, taking team to post season....that is an accomplishment. I don't see anyone saying we want a bunch of NITs, but a NIT sprinkled in with NCAAs is better than no post season at all. No doubt there will be some teams in the coming weeks saying they won't participate in the NIT, UCLA will likely be one....it will be said because they aren't going to get a NIT bid anyway and a chance for them to save face.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 11, 2019, 05:03:19 PM
What context was it used? Young coach, taking team to post season....that is an accomplishment. I don't see anyone saying we want a bunch of NITs, but a NIT sprinkled in with NCAAs is better than no post season at all. No doubt there will be some teams in the coming weeks saying they won't participate in the NIT, UCLA will likely be one....it will be said because they aren't going to get a NIT bid anyway and a chance for them to save face.
And yet, this is 100% accurate:
Quote. If his resume consisted of a bunch of NIT appearances and a couple NCAA no one is celebrating that.
Quote from: Research Report on March 11, 2019, 05:02:07 PM
Perhaps one of the older posters could confirm this, but wasn't the NIT a bigger deal back then than it is now? Like, almost just as good as the NCAA? I feel like comparing the NIT of 1970 to today's version is apples to oranges, but I could be wrong.
It was a bigger deal mainly because the NCAA hadn't expanded yet and had rules regarding the number of teams per conference (although that obviously didn't effect us). It doesn't change the fact that you implied that both players were "also rans". The NIT is not a "waste of time" if for no other reason than the school makes money. You can ignore the experience and the prestige, or lack thereof, but like most things, it all comes down to $$$.
Quote from: Research Report on March 11, 2019, 05:02:07 PM
Perhaps one of the older posters could confirm this, but wasn't the NIT a bigger deal back then than it is now? Like, almost just as good as the NCAA? I feel like comparing the NIT of 1970 to today's version is apples to oranges, but I could be wrong.
Way way way back, yes. Hasn't been the case in a long time. The 1995 NIT run MU made, that was fun and good for the program. TCU won the whole thing in 2017, and in 2018 made their first NCAA appearance in TWENTY years. Ohio State won it all in 2008, then went to NCAAs 7 straight. Wichita State won the NIT in 2011, then went on a great NCAA run of 7 straight. There are countless examples of this, not just the winner of the NIT, but young teams or teams that need to learn how to win in pressure situations.
Let's put it this way, MU was better off going through a one and done situation three times last year in the NIT then having to do it this year in the NCAAs. Doesn't mean we win, but I'd much rather have guys that have multiple lose and your out games under their belt then showing up for the first time in that situation. By no means is it a waste of time or a loser tournament of also-rans. Pathetic statement.
Quote from: Cheeks on March 11, 2019, 04:55:15 PM
No, it isn't an achievement?
Please let the university know we are honoring fake achievements....including our new locker room where we call out the NIT Championship. Should be removed...everyone gets a trophy.
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2018/08/27/PMJS/affca624-3abc-4f5f-81ca-aa4683070341-MUmen28_MUmen_desisti_01742.JPG?width=680&height=510&fit=bounds&auto=webp)
(https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2018/08/27/PMJS/136ff1c1-0b57-4e1a-8782-03a931424269-MUmen28_MUmen_desisti_01623.JPG?width=520&height=390&fit=bounds&auto=webp)
Technically that sign should say 33 ncaa selections
Quote from: Cheeks on March 11, 2019, 05:12:43 PM
Doesn't mean we win, but I'd much rather have guys that have multiple lose and your out games under their belt then showing up for the first time in that situation. By no means is it a waste of time or a loser tournament of also-rans. Pathetic statement.
I agree with you 100% Cheeks. NIT is very worthwhile, especially if you have a younger team. Here in CT Jim Calhoun has said repeatedly that the 1988 NIT championship was the springboard for UConn's future success. Besides, more basketball and any championship, even if it is second tier like the NIT, is worth pursuing if the primary NCAA dream is not met. Like everyone, rather be in the NCAA than the NIT, but would rather be in the NIT than nothing.
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 11, 2019, 05:10:11 PM
It was a bigger deal mainly because the NCAA hadn't expanded yet and had rules regarding the number of teams per conference (although that obviously didn't effect us). It doesn't change the fact that you implied that both players were "also rans". The NIT is not a "waste of time" if for no other reason than the school makes money. You can ignore the experience and the prestige, or lack thereof, but like most things, it all comes down to $$$.
In 1970, there were 24 teams in the NCAA tournament. The major conferences all got byes and the Major Independents, of which we were one, had to play conferences that today we would call the Mid-Majors. The only way a team got in was to win their conference or be one of the very best independents in their region of the country.
Keep in mind this was almost a decade before the Big East, so schools like Syracuse, St. John's, Boston College, Marquette, Notre Dame etc., were all major independents.
The competition in the 1970 NIT was on par with what one would see today in the NCAA. Most of the teams that were in the NIT we won would have made the NCAA under today's rules and probably been a Top 6 seed. It was that good back then. The NCAA got smart and opened up the tournament, causing the NIT to be a crapfest.
I understand why we went to the NIT back then but also believe it's time has past and should be put down. I'm not a big fan of it and while I like seeing our Warriors play an additional game, I think the NIT rewards mediocrity. If it were up to me, I turn an NIT invite down every time and tell my guys, NCAA -- all the way!
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 12, 2019, 04:11:54 PM
In 1970, there were 24 teams in the NCAA tournament. The major conferences all got byes and the Major Independents, of which we were one, had to play conferences that today we would call the Mid-Majors. The only way a team got in was to win their conference or be one of the very best independents in their region of the country.
Keep in mind this was almost a decade before the Big East, so schools like Syracuse, St. John's, Boston College, Marquette, Notre Dame etc., were all major independents.
The competition in the 1970 NIT was on par with what one would see today in the NCAA. Most of the teams that were in the NIT we won would have made the NCAA under today's rules and probably been a Top 6 seed. It was that good back then. The NCAA got smart and opened up the tournament, causing the NIT to be a crapfest.
I understand why we went to the NIT back then but also believe it's time has past and should be put down. I'm not a big fan of it and while I like seeing our Warriors play an additional game, I think the NIT rewards mediocrity. If it were up to me, I turn an NIT invite down every time and tell my guys, NCAA -- all the way!
Well then I'm glad that you're not in charge of our Athletic Department because the NIT is always better than no postseason, full stop, no debate needed.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 12, 2019, 04:11:54 PM
In 1970, there were 24 teams in the NCAA tournament. The major conferences all got byes and the Major Independents, of which we were one, had to play conferences that today we would call the Mid-Majors. The only way a team got in was to win their conference or be one of the very best independents in their region of the country.
Keep in mind this was almost a decade before the Big East, so schools like Syracuse, St. John's, Boston College, Marquette, Notre Dame etc., were all major independents.
The competition in the 1970 NIT was on par with what one would see today in the NCAA. Most of the teams that were in the NIT we won would have made the NCAA under today's rules and probably been a Top 6 seed. It was that good back then. The NCAA got smart and opened up the tournament, causing the NIT to be a crapfest.
I understand why we went to the NIT back then but also believe it's time has past and should be put down. I'm not a big fan of it and while I like seeing our Warriors play an additional game, I think the NIT rewards mediocrity. If it were up to me, I turn an NIT invite down every time and tell my guys, NCAA -- all the way!
I agree with this analysis, and thank you for the super informative post!
I'm also an "NCAA or bust" guy. There's a reason they use the NIT to experiment with rule changes. Because it no matta.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 12, 2019, 04:11:54 PM
I understand why we went to the NIT back then but also believe it's time has past and should be put down. I'm not a big fan of it and while I like seeing our Warriors play an additional game, I think the NIT rewards mediocrity. If it were up to me, I turn an NIT invite down every time and tell my guys, NCAA -- all the way!
Not unlike the excessive number of bowl games for NCAA football. Allowing more teams to participate in the post-season is a smart move to make more money, but you're right when you say it rewards mediocrity. Sure, the NIT has some fun moments, but the quality of the teams is pretty different than the NCAAs.
Quote from: skianth16 on March 13, 2019, 10:29:37 AM
Not unlike the excessive number of bowl games for NCAA football. Allowing more teams to participate in the post-season is a smart move to make more money, but you're right when you say it rewards mediocrity. Sure, the NIT has some fun moments, but the quality of the teams is pretty different than the NCAAs.
That may be the case, but let's not forget the NCAA tournament doesn't have the 68 best teams. Last year there were probably 20 some NIT teams that had better power numbers than at least 10 NCAA teams.
NCAA teams (auto winners)
Texas Southern 243
Radford 170
Lipscomb 167
UMBC 166
Fullerton 162
Wright State 133
Penn 125
Charleston 115
Stephen F Austin 112
Marshall 105
Georgia State 101
NIT teams
Penn State 19
St. Mary's 32
Baylor 34
Notre Dame 35
Middle Tennessee 45
Western Kentucky 47
USC 51
Marquette 53
Mississippi State 54
Nebraska 55
Etc, etc. There are some solid NIT teams playing that have much better resumes than NCAA teams because of the auto-bid scenario. There are some NIT teams that have better resumes than at-large NCAA teams, too.
Money and post season experience beats no money and no experience every day.
Also while the NIT in 1970 was certainly respectable you can't say it was on par with the NCAA. There were two other ranked teams that went that year Cinci and Utah 18 & 19 respectively. Let's not rewrite history and act like winning that one was beating or playing the best
Quote from: Research Report on March 12, 2019, 05:00:37 PM
I agree with this analysis, and thank you for the super informative post!
I'm also an "NCAA or bust" guy. There's a reason they use the NIT to experiment with rule changes. Because it no matta.
The Big East used to have their own rules....6 fouls before disqualification...I guess it no matta.