Fore!

[WarriorDad]

No I'm pretty sure his wrist injury is worse than most think. After that fall he has not shot the same from deep or FT line (no matta, hey)

That is my hunch, or maybe he is wearing out.  A little guy that is beaten up by bigger players all season long.

[Shooter McGavin]

I understand the angst.  But one year from today we will have been to 3 NCAA tournaments in 6 years, an NIT, have witnessed the all time scoring leader at MU play, have at least one if not two NBA draft picks, and the lynch pin (a loaded 2020 class). 

That is all without knowing what post season success we will have this year or next.

I'm disappointed we did not win the Big East regular season title as well but it does not define the growth of the program in the big picture.

I could be absolutely could be wrong but I could see this accelerating with the right class.

If it doesn't, frankly I'm with you.  But would be hard pressed to find another answer.  Hopefully the right coach will fall in our laps.

[WarriorDad]

No, this is wrong.  He took over a program that was a year removed from 8 straight NCAA appearances and 3 straight Sweet 16s.  They were facing no sanctions (despite the "other shoe" some on here have alluded to), have excellent facilities and recruiting resources, and play in an NBA arena.

And one of those post seasons he made was the NIT, a garbage tournament for garbage teams. Being satisfied with the NIT is what got Mike Deane fired, but under Wojo I guess it's the land of milk and honey.  The High Volume Wojo Guys will do anything to prop up his overall mediocre tenure at Marquette.

But you know what?  He still has a chance to redeem himself in the Tourney, and I hope he does.  However, if we don't make the second weekend, his first five years here will have been lackluster at best.

Nothing I said was wrong.  Factual.  The year before, MU did not go to postseason.  He has gone to 3 post season tournaments in five years.  The success of MU two to five years prior to him taking the helm is nice, but most if not all of those players were gone and the existing roster and incoming recruits not that good.  I'd rather judge a company on how they are doing on recent results, not 8 quarters ago.  Same for my basketball program.

[WarriorDad]

I understand the angst.  But one year from today we will have been to 3 NCAA tournaments in 6 years, an NIT, have witnessed the all time scoring leader at MU play, have at least one if not two NBA draft picks, and the lynch pin (a loaded 2020 class). 

That is all without knowing what post season success we will have this year or next.

I'm disappointed we did not win the Big East regular season title as well but it does not define the growth of the program in the big picture.

I could be absolutely could be wrong but I could see this accelerating with the right class.

If it doesn't, frankly I'm with you.  But would be hard pressed to find another answer.  Hopefully the right coach will fall in our laps.

Hasn't Wojo been here for only 5 seasons?

[tower912]

Hasn't Wojo been here for only 5 seasons?

'One year from today' is in the opening sentence.   

[NickelDimer]

Nothing I said was wrong.  Factual.  The year before, MU did not go to postseason.  He has gone to 3 post season tournaments in five years.  The success of MU two to five years prior to him taking the helm is nice, but most if not all of those players were gone and the existing roster and incoming recruits not that good.  I'd rather judge a company on how they are doing on recent results, not 8 quarters ago.  Same for my basketball program.

Pretty sure that team declined a postseason invite. Worth mentioning since apparently NIT's count as postseason appearances

[Silent Verbal]

Nothing I said was wrong.  Factual.  The year before, MU did not go to postseason.  He has gone to 3 post season tournaments in five years.  The success of MU two to five years prior to him taking the helm is nice, but most if not all of those players were gone and the existing roster and incoming recruits not that good.  I'd rather judge a company on how they are doing on recent results, not 8 quarters ago.  Same for my basketball program.

Your facts weren't wrong, but your premise was.  The program Wojo inherited wasn't a dumpster fire, and the situation he walked into was similar to what most coaches face when they take over a high major team.  Some roster turnover, some guys that didn't fit his style, etc.  He hasn't been some miracle worker who took a moribund program and built it into a powerhouse.  He's pretty much been subpar relative to program history.

But you know what?  He's been here long enough that we no longer need to discuss what he inherited.  The results speak for themselves:  Zero NCAA tournament victories in four years.  Will he finally get it done in year 5?  I hope so.

[NCMUFan]

Teams have figured us out.
I said earlier you need four scorers that on any given night can drop 15 points.
Once other teams learned how to shut down Markus and Sam we started to sputter. 
Well, is it to late to incorporate the others into the offense?
Maybe. 
Not worth losing sleep over.
C'est la vie.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Teams have figured us out.
I said earlier you need four scorers that on any given night can drop 15 points.
Once other teams learned how to shut down Markus and Sam we started to sputter. 
Well, is it to late to incorporate the others into the offense?
Maybe. 
Not worth losing sleep over.
C'est la vie.

I'm still not buying the "figured us out" narrative. We lost the four games in very different ways. Each team had a different defensive strategy against us. We also were winning or tied 87% of the way through each game. Did they wait until the end to release their secret strategy against us?

I think a more plausible scenario is that we got beat by an equal team on the road, then played like crap against Creighton, then had a subpar game on the road against a solid Seton Hall team, and then ran into Georgetown playing their best game of the season while we had a cold shooting night.

[WarriorDad]

Your facts weren't wrong, but your premise was.  The program Wojo inherited wasn't a dumpster fire, and the situation he walked into was similar to what most coaches face when they take over a high major team.  Some roster turnover, some guys that didn't fit his style, etc.  He hasn't been some miracle worker who took a moribund program and built it into a powerhouse.  He's pretty much been subpar relative to program history.

But you know what?  He's been here long enough that we no longer need to discuss what he inherited.  The results speak for themselves:  Zero NCAA tournament victories in four years.  Will he finally get it done in year 5?  I hope so.

It was not a dumpster fire, though there are members here that have described it that way.  But it was also not close to the years you mentioned as the program he walked into, either.

Bad recruiting, roster not great and players questioning why the coach left means Wojo had his work cut out for him.  He did not arrive on campus with the Sweet 16 or Elight 8 team.  He arrived to a team that wasn't in the postseason.

Someone said we turned down the NIT bid?  Is there evidence to support this?  I do not know, but do not remember that happening or that rumor.

[The Lens]

Dad, 3 years ago Luke Winn, then of SI, tweeted that Marquette has more RSCI Top 100 players than all the Big East combined.  I believe the number was 9.  Call them all busts but they all arrived with some fanfare and none of them was Anthony Candelino. 

Let's cool on the empty cabinets talk.  If anything the cupboards were all filled with bread and we were going gluten free. 

[SERocks]

Someone said we turned down the NIT bid? 

It wasn't NIT, it was that new postseason tourney held in Vegas for something like 16 teams.   They could only get about 8 and it blew up on them after the first year.   The concept sounded good but in practice it did not work.

Not sure we got a bid or let it be known we would not accept one if offered.....

[WarriorDad]

Dad, 3 years ago Luke Winn, then of SI, tweeted that Marquette has more RSCI Top 100 players than all the Big East combined.  I believe the number was 9.  Call them all busts but they all arrived with some fanfare and none of them was Anthony Candelino. 

Let's cool on the empty cabinets talk.  If anything the cupboards were all filled with bread and we were going gluten free.

Did those players translate into their ratings? 

Deonte Burton ranked 54th, is a great player, but he did not want to play defense at the time and ultimately left Marquette. Mother passed away which added to decision
JaJuan Johnson ranked 30th, never lived up to that rating
Duane Wilson ranked 56th, never lived up to that rating.  Nice player, wonderful teammate and more of a glue guy
Jameel McKey left before playing a single minute for Coach Williams

Sandy Cohen ranked 75th in Coach Williams last class.  He is a mid major player
Steve Taylor Ranked 82nd in 2012 class.  He is a mid major player

All these RSCI ranked players, but most never lived up to the billing, didn't stay long (or never arrived). Not even factoring in Todd Mayo having to be pushed out by Wojo.  Juan Anderson was a mid major player.

The players coach Wojo took on that were largely overrated based on their recruiting numbers.  Nice kids, some were good players, but not fitting their high school or AAU accolades.  Burton was the exception.  JaJuan and Duane were good, not great.

[WarriorDad]

It wasn't NIT, it was that new postseason tourney held in Vegas for something like 16 teams.   They could only get about 8 and it blew up on them after the first year.   The concept sounded good but in practice it did not work.

Not sure we got a bid or let it be known we would not accept one if offered.....

That was my understanding, we never received a NIT bid and Marquette is not going to take any bid beyond the NCAA or NIT. 

This article confirms no NIT bid in Coach Williams last year   http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/nit-snub-leads-to-abrupt-end-of-marquettes-season-b99226497z1-250558831.html

[WarriorDad]

'One year from today' is in the opening sentence.

Embarrassed.  Missed that.   

[NickelDimer]

That was my understanding, we never received a NIT bid and Marquette is not going to take any bid beyond the NCAA or NIT. 

This article confirms no NIT bid in Coach Williams last year   http://archive.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/nit-snub-leads-to-abrupt-end-of-marquettes-season-b99226497z1-250558831.html

So NIT is where you draw the postseason line. Got it. I think I speak for 99% when I say there's only one postseason that counts. This year will be Wojo's second postseason appearance. Let's hope he has more success this time around

[Cheeks]

So NIT is where you draw the postseason line. Got it. I think I speak for 99% when I say there's only one postseason that counts. This year will be Wojo's second postseason appearance. Let's hope he has more success this time around

How did you vote for the clean program?

Someone said it earlier, but if the university counts NIT appearances we should, too.  One is preferred to the other, but I don't think you speak for the 99%.  There is a reason that we hang and honor NIT teams over the years.

[Cheeks]

Did those players translate into their ratings? 

Deonte Burton ranked 54th, is a great player, but he did not want to play defense at the time and ultimately left Marquette. Mother passed away which added to decision
JaJuan Johnson ranked 30th, never lived up to that rating
Duane Wilson ranked 56th, never lived up to that rating.  Nice player, wonderful teammate and more of a glue guy
Jameel McKey left before playing a single minute for Coach Williams

Sandy Cohen ranked 75th in Coach Williams last class.  He is a mid major player
Steve Taylor Ranked 82nd in 2012 class.  He is a mid major player

All these RSCI ranked players, but most never lived up to the billing, didn't stay long (or never arrived). Not even factoring in Todd Mayo having to be pushed out by Wojo.  Juan Anderson was a mid major player.

The players coach Wojo took on that were largely overrated based on their recruiting numbers.  Nice kids, some were good players, but not fitting their high school or AAU accolades.  Burton was the exception.  JaJuan and Duane were good, not great.

Compare Wojo's RSCI guys and their contributions to those on Buzz's list at the end.  No comparison.

A, our guys chose to play for MU and stick to the program. (B). They have been more productive.

Howard
Hauser
Hauser
Bailey

All made RSCI, all productive and several will go down in top 5 categories at this school.

[NickelDimer]

How did you vote for the clean program?

Someone said it earlier, but if the university counts NIT appearances we should, too.  One is preferred to the other, but I don't think you speak for the 99%.  There is a reason that we hang and honor NIT teams over the years.

I didn't. Relevance? This program is way above notching NIT appearances in our belt sorry. Feel free to start a poll with one of your many usernames

[Cheeks]

I didn't. Relevance? This program is way above notching NIT appearances in our belt sorry. Feel free to start a poll with one of your many usernames

All programs, even the UNC's, Syracuse, UCLA, Indiana, etc, etc, have a NIT appearances.  NIT is better than no tournament at all. No on is saying NIT is the expected, but if every 5 years we go to the NIT and the other 4 are NCAA, I'll be thrilled....especially if we stay off the front pages of the Chicago Tribune.  I have only this username at the moment.  In my view last year's NIT helped this team.  For some teams the NIT for a young team is great.  For others, it is a disappointment.  Depends on the year and situation, but to blanket crap on those appearances is just wrong.

[NickelDimer]

All programs, even the UNC's, Syracuse, UCLA, Indiana, etc, etc, have a NIT appearances.  NIT is better than no tournament at all. No on is saying NIT is the expected, but if every 5 years we go to the NIT and the other 4 are NCAA, I'll be thrilled....especially if we stay off the front pages of the Chicago Tribune.  I have only this username at the moment.  In my view last year's NIT helped this team.  For some teams the NIT for a young team is great.  For others, it is a disappointment.  Depends on the year and situation, but to blanket crap on those appearances is just wrong.

Crap on them? No. Crown them as achievements when giving Wojo's resume? Ehh, that's weak as hell, and that's what WD did

[Cheeks]

Crap on them? No. Crown them as achievements when giving Wojo's resume? Ehh, that's weak as hell

Then you are crapping on them.  The goal is to get to the post season. First and foremost is the NCAA tournament.  NIT is second, way down the list, but WAY WAY WAY above not making it at all.  I'm sorry, but in some situations the NIT is an achievement.  In other years a disappointment.  99.999999% would pick the NCAAs over NIT, as would I.  But I'm guessing the vast majority would pick NIT over no tournament at all, but no doubt there will be the puritans that claim it is beneath MU to go to the NIT.  If that's really the case, they should tear down every NIT banner we have....which of course would be ridiculous.  So let's stop pretending an NIT is equivalent to no post season. It's an achievement, that is why we acknowledge it as a program.

[NickelDimer]

No

[BM1090]

I'm with Chicos here. I don't consider the NIT an "achievement" but I do consider it a sign that we had a season with some positive moments and some good wins vs. a bad season. It's a sign we were at least a competent team that could have been a tournament team with a few good bounces.

[NickelDimer]

All well and good. And I agree it was great for the development of the team. But it's not a resume builder for Wojo. If his resume consisted of a bunch of NIT appearances and a couple NCAA no one is celebrating that. That's my point. It's the context which NIT was used that I disagreed with