MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 94Warrior on January 24, 2019, 09:26:44 PM
-
Coach K, Wojo and Homer talking all things Marquette, including D Wade!
Great Stuff
http://www.espn.com/milwaukee/
-
Interesting part coach K brought up,
I’m somewhat paraphrasing, but he stated coach Wojo steeped into a rebuilding mode with MU, and had to turn around what kind of students and athletes MU wanted at their school.
I don’t think he’s wrong, and I agree.
Was that a jab at buzz?
Great interview, always will cheer for duke since we got Wojo.
-
Interesting part coach K brought up,
I’m somewhat paraphrasing, but he stated coach Wojo steeped into a rebuilding mode with MU, and had to turn around what kind of students and athletes MU wanted at their school.
I don’t think he’s wrong, and I agree.
Was that a jab at buzz?
Great interview, always will cheer for duke since we got Wojo.
That’s pretty much what I understood him to mean as well.
Homer painted MU post-Al with a negative broad brush, inferring a sort of Dark Age. No talk of successes of the mid 90s and 2000s, and didn’t seem to grasp K correctly arguing the Marquette brand as having withstood the test of time.
Struck by how genuinely K loves Marquette. Neat hearing him describe how many friends from his youth went to MU.
I’m paraphrasing you here, but Wojo has sort of lifted the veil off Coach K and Duke, and showed us all that the people who run the hoops program there are pretty decent guys. They are elite, without being elitist, as has often been accused. Wojo described Wade in the same manner. Strive for being elite, but maintain your down-to-Earth nature.
-
I don't know if he meant for it to be a slight to ol' Buzzard, but it certainly came off that way. He pretty much said Wojo got back to doing things the Marquette way, which also happens to be Wojo's way!
The implication was, things weren't being done with honesty and integrity prior to his arrival, and he had a mess to clean up.
Loved how K gushed about Wade being humble, hard working and a uniquely great guy even after all the success he's had. Which, unfortunately, is not common.
-
Interesting part coach K brought up,
I’m somewhat paraphrasing, but he stated coach Wojo steeped into a rebuilding mode with MU, and had to turn around what kind of students and athletes MU wanted at their school.
I don’t think he’s wrong, and I agree.
Was that a jab at buzz?
Great interview, always will cheer for duke since we got Wojo.
I cheer for Duke just as I always cheer for other Big East (and future Big East) teams.
-
I cheer for Duke just as I always cheer for other Big East (and future Big East) teams.
Who are the future Big East teams? I'd like to know.
-
Coach K, Wojo and Homer talking all things Marquette, including D Wade!
Great Stuff
http://www.espn.com/milwaukee/
This is why the power point was so important.....also why I think Wojo is the heir to replace K....but for now let’s enjoy.
-
Who are the future Big East teams? I'd like to know.
Whoever you want them to be. IMO - Phase I will likely be be at least one from the A-10 plus either a second from the A-10 or someone from the AAC.
Phase II is entirely dependent on who raids who between the ACC and SEC (more specifically, which conference’s members start taking a hard look at dropping foosball). If the SEC is the aggressor, Duke, UConn, one of Wake Forest, Cincy or Pitt, and a team that shalt not be mentioned are probably the most likely to jump (yes, Cincy isn’t ACC, but such a scenario likely seals their fate unless B12 comes calling, which my guess is that they’ll be too focused poaching from another P5 themselves) but if it’s the ACC that raids (read: foosball maintains status quo), there may not be a Phase II for ththe BE.
This isn’t anytime soon, however. We’re looking at as many as 5-10 years before Phase I and upwards of 20 years before Phase II materializes.
Bottom line, is that to maximize tourney shares, they need to maximize their ceiling on the NET and other ratings, which the math gives bias to conferences with more than 10 members. So 12 is imminent, 14 is likely and 16 is not out of the question. The only question is who, and when.
I think Duke gets there. May take them until 2040, but I just don’t see them hanging on to football forever.
-
Always hated Duke. Just got sick and tired of them being the golden boy of basketball. However it's hard not to repsect.coach K. After this interview I guess I can be happy to see him win a few more titles in his final years
-
This is why the power point was so important.....also why I think Wojo is the heir to replace K....but for now let’s enjoy.
Let’s get it straight...
Wojo is the heir to replace the guy who replaces Coach K.
Coach McGuire pitied Hank for having to follow in his footsteps. Doubt K wants that same weight on Wojo, and remember also the words of coach Carrawell: “Wojo wants to make his own mark.”
Crean and O’Neill found the grass elsewhere no greener, and both have since admitted it. No way do I pretend to know Coach Wojo’s intentions or best path to take....but I know this....the people at MU are first-rate. Wojo knows it because he’s seen it first-hand, and K has too, dating back to his MU-bound HS friends.
Let’s give our Coach every reason to make his best mark right here.
-
Let’s get it straight...
Wojo is the heir to replace the guy who replaces Coach K.
Coach McGuire pitied Hank for having to follow in his footsteps. Doubt K wants that same weight on Wojo, and remember also the words of coach Carrawell: “Wojo wants to make his own mark.”
Crean and O’Neill found the grass elsewhere no greener, and both have since admitted it. No way do I pretend to know Coach Wojo’s intentions or best path to take....but I know this....the people at MU are first-rate. Wojo knows it because he’s seen it first-hand, and K has too, dating back to his MU-bound HS friends.
Let’s give our Coach every reason to make his best mark right here.
I hope you are right, but I have a feeling K asks him to take the reigns, and that will be very tough to say no.
For now, I am enjoying this. I believe strongly in the approach and philosophy which should surprise no one.
Go Warriors
-
Always hated Duke. Just got sick and tired of them being the golden boy of basketball. However it's hard not to repsect.coach K. After this interview I guess I can be happy to see him win a few more titles in his final years
Respect greatness. Pats, Duke, etc...can be frustrating at times, but they accomplish what they do because they embody greatness.
-
I hope you are right, but I have a feeling K asks him to take the reigns, and that will be very tough to say no.
For now, I am enjoying this. I believe strongly in the approach and philosophy which should surprise no one.
Go Warriors
I hope I am too. This is probably not relevant because all coaching tree friends say this...but K said in the Homer interview that he will never schedule Marquette or Northwestern for having to compete against his close friends. Wouldn’t a Duke coach Wojo be essentially playing against K’s legend?
-
Respect greatness. Pats, Duke, etc...can be frustrating at times, but they accomplish what they do because they embody greatness.
Yep. I’m a horse racing fan, as if you couldn’t tell. I fall into this same trap when people discuss the greatness of trainer Bob Baffert. I feel he gets handed superior horse-flesh. However, I let my disdain for the media fawning all over him cloud my judgment. Despite his advanced starting point, he really does move a horse way up with his training.
-
Coach K alluded to wojo being on his show? Anybody have the link to that?
-
That’s pretty much what I understood him to mean as well.
Homer painted MU post-Al with a negative broad brush, inferring a sort of Dark Age. No talk of successes of the mid 90s and 2000s, and didn’t seem to grasp K correctly arguing the Marquette brand as having withstood the test of time.
Struck by how genuinely K loves Marquette. Neat hearing him describe how many friends from his youth went to MU.
I’m paraphrasing you here, but Wojo has sort of lifted the veil off Coach K and Duke, and showed us all that the people who run the hoops program there are pretty decent guys. They are elite, without being elitist, as has often been accused. Wojo described Wade in the same manner. Strive for being elite, but maintain your down-to-Earth nature.
This is amazing. First we had Tom Crean reinvent MU hoops and save us from 25 years of ineptitude and now we have Wojo doing the same thing except he gets to save us from 40 years of ineptitude.
I’ll just pretend I never ran to the lake with all of McCormick Hall in 94, ran the table in STL in 97, and cheered on a 3 straight S16 run post 2010.
-
This is amazing. First we had Tom Crean reinvent MU hoops and save us from 25 years of ineptitude and now we have Wojo doing the same thing except he gets to save us from 40 years of ineptitude.
I’ll just pretend I never ran to the lake with all of McCormick Hall in 94, ran the table in STL in 97, and cheered on a 3 straight S16 run post 2010.
Did you listen to it? I didn't get that vibe at all from Homer.
-
Did you listen to it? I didn't get that vibe at all from Homer.
I agree. He mentioned how MU wasn’t at the level of Al McGuire the last 40 years and if Coach K still felt the same way of MU being a top coaching job. This was after Coach K talked about playing against MU in the McGuire era while at Army I believe. K did mention in one answer how Wojo had to rebuild.
-
Did you listen to it? I didn't get that vibe at all from Homer.
No. I was a little busy last night. Just read the post Al “dark age” comments.
Hey at least we talked about Al. He doesn’t get enough recognition.
-
Not a fan of how coach k treated guys who left early...but he certainly is no Rick Pitino...
-
Not a fan of how coach k treated guys who left early...but he certainly is no Rick Pitino...
Which is surprising, since Pitino should have sympathy for premature departures.
-
No. I was a little busy last night. Just read the post Al “dark age” comments.
Hey at least we talked about Al. He doesn’t get enough recognition.
Listen and form an opinion for yourself when you get a chance. I think northerndancecult may have misinterpreted what was said.
-
I don't know if he meant for it to be a slight to ol' Buzzard, but it certainly came off that way. He pretty much said Wojo got back to doing things the Marquette way, which also happens to be Wojo's way!
The implication was, things weren't being done with honesty and integrity prior to his arrival, and he had a mess to clean up.
This does not conflict with anythling I heard from members of the the administration immediately pre-Wojo.
-
Just by chance, I got in the car 30 seconds before Coach K joined the show. I did not pick up any kind of slights against any part of Marquette's history. I thought the closest dig was actually against Wojo. Coach K was trying to comment on how well this year is going and he said what a large improvement they've made this year. Followed by an slightly awkward, "not that they were BAD before..."
I enjoyed it very much. Was slightly confused when Coach K referenced "Steve". The first time I thought he was talking about Homer so I assumed that's who he was talking about later. Totally forgot for the moment that Wojo's name is Steve too. Only think of him as Wojo. Duh. When he later referred to Homer as "the guy you do the show with" I figured out he wasn't good friends with Homer
-
I respect/pull for Duke because they stopped the unthinkable from happening....unthinkable.
-
I respect/pull for Duke because they stopped the unthinkable from happening....unthinkable.
+1
-
I respect/pull for Duke because they stopped the unthinkable from happening....unthinkable.
Yes.....Yes!
Only one State Champion!
I love to hear Gasser still bitch about how the refs called the game completely differently the last 5 minutes and stole the title from Wisky.
Thank you Coach K!
-
I don't know what MU's record is against Duke while Coach K has been coach. All time we are W 2, L 6.
I do remember one game MU beat Duke with the three Amigos and Ousman Barro. DJ was head and shoulders above the Duke PG that had the Greek name. Ooze I believe also had a huge game to propel us to victory. The next year I believe we also played Duke but this time lost a close one.
I have been to the Duke campus a number of times. It is very strong medical research University. Got to love a school that has a Lemur center.
https://lemur.duke.edu/
-
MP3-
http://play.podtrac.com/espn-marquettebasketball/c.espnradio.com/audio/3589350/marquettebasketball_2019-01-24-212850.64k.mp3
-
I don't know what MU's record is against Duke while Coach K has been coach. All time we are W 2, L 6.
I do remember one game MU beat Duke with the three Amigos and Ousman Barro. DJ was head and shoulders above the Duke PG that had the Greek name. Ooze I believe also had a huge game to propel us to victory. The next year I believe we also played Duke but this time lost a close one.
I have been to the Duke campus a number of times. It is very strong medical research University. Got to love a school that has a Lemur center.
https://lemur.duke.edu/
1-4 against Coach K.
https://tinyurl.com/mubackintop10 >> Sort by Opponent Head Coach >> Sort by Opponent
I don't have it completly filled out but all Marquette/Duke games have been entered.
From there you can see KO was 0-2 against K, Crean was 1-1, Buzz was 0-1. You can also see Duke's average rank was 7 when coach K played Marquette.
-
Just by chance, I got in the car 30 seconds before Coach K joined the show. I did not pick up any kind of slights against any part of Marquette's history. I thought the closest dig was actually against Wojo. Coach K was trying to comment on how well this year is going and he said what a large improvement they've made this year. Followed by an slightly awkward, "not that they were BAD before..."
I enjoyed it very much. Was slightly confused when Coach K referenced "Steve". The first time I thought he was talking about Homer so I assumed that's who he was talking about later. Totally forgot for the moment that Wojo's name is Steve too. Only think of him as Wojo. Duh. When he later referred to Homer as "the guy you do the show with" I figured out he wasn't good friends with Homer
That was part of the conversation where he was talking about how he thought Marquette was a great fit for Wojo. That he felt it was a great fit for Wojo, that it was a gold mine of a coaching job--tons of tradition that when Wojo put his touch on could be a really great situation. Then said, "you're seeing that develop now...not that they were bad before."
Love to hear him talk about how he watches Marquette and Wojo whenever he gets the chance and cheers along. In a weird way, that might be why he won't face his coaching tree--wants to be able to root them on to success (as evidenced by how he doesn't love facing Jeff Capel).
What a great interview overall. It feels very rare that you get to see coaches in a setting like that interview was, especially Coach K. If K said half of the things he did during the interview about Wojo to the Marquette Board when they were interviewing him for the position, it is really clear how he rose quickly as the hire.
Insert moment of euphoric homerism:I have no idea what the future brings for Wojo and Marquette, but I am really happy that he is here and the vision he has had for the program thus far. He's definitely from good stock, and it is fun to see the results that we've had this year--hopefully it's just a preview of the foundation he is building here.
-
Coach K, Wojo and Homer talking all things Marquette, including D Wade!
Great Stuff
http://www.espn.com/milwaukee/
Terrific interview. Did not know Coach Krzyzewski had the affinity he did for Marquette, but growing up 90 miles away during MU's glory days would make sense. Feels like we have a special situation.
-
This is why the power point was so important.....also why I think Wojo is the heir to replace K....but for now let’s enjoy.
Never immediately follow a legend unless you are a legend yourself. If Wojo becomes a legend here, then we will all be happy.
-
Listen and form an opinion for yourself when you get a chance. I think northerndancecult may have misinterpreted what was said.
When K brought up how our brand has stood the test of time, Homer seemed like he was trying to get at “but why your huge push Marquette?” for Wojo. It just kind of fit the narrative for Homer to gloss over all our other success post-Al. Don’t think Homer had any ill-intent. K, in fact, responded by saying MU has done a lot since, “just haven’t won a championship” then he laughed “which is really difficult to do.”
-
That was part of the conversation where he was talking about how he thought Marquette was a great fit for Wojo. That he felt it was a great fit for Wojo, that it was a gold mine of a coaching job--tons of tradition that when Wojo put his touch on could be a really great situation. Then said, "you're seeing that develop now...not that they were bad before."
Love to hear him talk about how he watches Marquette and Wojo whenever he gets the chance and cheers along. In a weird way, that might be why he won't face his coaching tree--wants to be able to root them on to success.
Coach K had some good quotes on this after they beat Jeff Capel's Pitt team earlier this week. He basically said he was glad that he won and Pitt lost, and all of the emotions get set aside come gametime. Of course those are all things he should say, and I'm sure he prefers not to play his former staff members if he can avoid it. Both he and Capel said it's just weird.
Speaking of Capel, it'll be interesting to see what he does in the next few years at Pitt. He's already made a pretty substantial difference in both team quality and attendance in his first year. The front court he inherited is awful, but the freshman guards that he brought in are studs. With a year or two more of bringing in his recruits, I think he'll have Pitt comfortably back in the top half of the ACC, and I think his name will be included as much (or more than) Wojo's as K's likely successor. Wojo's a great recruiter, but Capel is known to get the future superstars, and if he shows that he can still come close to doing that at a school that hit rock bottom, I'd say he has the edge.
-
1-4 against Coach K.
https://tinyurl.com/marqU2019 >> Sort by Opponent Head Coach >> Sort by Opponent
I don't have it completly filled out but all Marquette/Duke games have been entered.
From there you can see KO was 0-2 against K, Crean was 1-1, Buzz was 0-1. You can also see Duke's average rank was 7 when coach K played Marquette.
Buzz almost got them in Kansas City in the CBE, lost by 5. Crean's team lost 77-73 in his second encounter. Two close calls. KO's NCAA team gave Duke fits for most of that game, too.
-
When K brought up how our brand has stood the test of time, Homer seemed like he was trying to get at “but why your huge push Marquette?” for Wojo. It just kind of fit the narrative for Homer to gloss over all our other success post-Al. Don’t think Homer had any ill-intent. K, in fact, responded by saying MU has done a lot since, “just haven’t won a championship” then he laughed “which is really difficult to do.”
all true, I just thought the dark ages comment was a bit of a harsh interpretation for what was actually said
-
Did you listen to it? I didn't get that vibe at all from Homer.
I didn't either. Sounds like maybe another MU coach didn't receive the accolades he thought he should. I have wondered for some time if Wojo and Buzz don't get along. Buzz wasn't at the 100th, the only living coach not there. The Marquette Way may rub some fans the wrong way?
-
I didn't either. Sounds like maybe another MU coach didn't receive the accolades he thought he should. I have wondered for some time if Wojo and Buzz don't get along. Buzz wasn't at the 100th, the only living coach not there. The Marquette Way may rub some fans the wrong way?
my understanding is he was invited. Though I don't think they would get along anyways.
-
my understanding is he was invited. Though I don't think they would get along anyways.
I expect he was invited, but not being there is what surprised me.
-
Are we just going to ignore the fact that Duke somehow got the top 3 guys in the recent recruiting class? Dukes recruiting classes over the last 10 years have looked a lot different than the 90s and early 2000s....$$$$$$$
-
Never immediately follow a legend unless you are a legend yourself. /quote]
And never get involved in a land war in Asia or go against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
-
all true, I just thought the dark ages comment was a bit of a harsh interpretation for what was actually said
Yeah, probably poor choice by me. I admit, I was peeved that when I went to the ESPN WI link, the top bar of their homepage listed Bucks, Brewers, Packers, BADGERS...then “MORE”. When you clicked on the “more” link, we, Marquette were the ones relegated to that heading.
Homer is an ESPN employee, so I guess I heard a slight that wasn’t there.
I still hope when the TV contract gets renegotiated...FS1 continues to be our flagship. Don’t want any part of ESPN.
-
That’s pretty much what I understood him to mean as well.
Homer painted MU post-Al with a negative broad brush, inferring a sort of Dark Age. No talk of successes of the mid 90s and 2000s, and didn’t seem to grasp K correctly arguing the Marquette brand as having withstood the test of time.
Struck by how genuinely K loves Marquette. Neat hearing him describe how many friends from his youth went to MU.
I don't think Wojo would be here if K didn't love Marquette.
-
I didn't either. Sounds like maybe another MU coach didn't receive the accolades he thought he should. I have wondered for some time if Wojo and Buzz don't get along. Buzz wasn't at the 100th, the only living coach not there. The Marquette Way may rub some fans the wrong way?
I doubt Wojo has any sort of relationship with Buzz.
-
I expect he was invited, but not being there is what surprised me.
Does it, knowing Buzz?
Crean's team lost 77-73 in his second encounter.
That Maui final was an Ed Hightower performance for the ages.
-
I don't think Wojo would be here if K didn't love Marquette.
Indeed, as I recall, Wojo had several offers from other colleges over the years, all of which Coach K urged him to pass on. But when Marquette called, Coach K urged him to talk.
He did and the rest is history.
As to perceived slights, keep in mind the "elite" discussions we have had in recent weeks. We have improved under Coach Wojo immensely (given the pile of dung left Coach Wojo by the Hillbilly). Where we go from here is still an open question but I'm optimistic about two things. First, we likely have Wojo as long as we want him. Second, the 2020 recruiting year will be make-or-break for our move to elite status.
What separated Al from his successors was Al's ability to consistently recruit. After Tom Crean recruited DWade, for example, he was not able to sustain that until the very end of his term. The Hillbilly recruited Jucos well, but the only two real start-to-finish recruits that made a difference were Wes Matthews and Vander Blue. Hopefully, Coach Wojo has laid the groundwork for something special.
What I ultimately like about Coach Wojo is the improvement we're seeing in Sam, in Theo and even in Markus. That start-to-finish effort is critical for us to be a preferred stopping point for the best recruits.
-
K didn't say anything that I would perceive as negative about Marquette. Loved the anecdote about Dean and Ric Cobb. Just because rodent fans (and Willie. And duanewade) are always trying to tear down the program doesn't mean that fans of college basketball don't know or respect Marquette's and the Big East's brand.
-
Indeed, as I recall, Wojo had several offers from other colleges over the years, all of which Coach K urged him to pass on. But when Marquette called, Coach K urged him to talk.
He did and the rest is history.
As to perceived slights, keep in mind the "elite" discussions we have had in recent weeks. We have improved under Coach Wojo immensely (given the pile of dung left Coach Wojo by the Hillbilly). Where we go from here is still an open question but I'm optimistic about two things. First, we likely have Wojo as long as we want him. Second, the 2020 recruiting year will be make-or-break for our move to elite status.
What separated Al from his successors was Al's ability to consistently recruit. After Tom Crean recruited DWade, for example, he was not able to sustain that until the very end of his term. The Hillbilly recruited Jucos well, but the only two real start-to-finish recruits that made a difference were Wes Matthews and Vander Blue. Hopefully, Coach Wojo has laid the groundwork for something special.
What I ultimately like about Coach Wojo is the improvement we're seeing in Sam, in Theo and even in Markus. That start-to-finish effort is critical for us to be a preferred stopping point for the best recruits.
Maybe its just the way you wrote this but I want to be clear that Buzz did not recruit Wes Matthews.
-
Let’s get it straight...
Wojo is the heir to replace the guy who replaces Coach K.
Coach McGuire pitied Hank for having to follow in his footsteps. Doubt K wants that same weight on Wojo, and remember also the words of coach Carrawell: “Wojo wants to make his own mark.”
Crean and O’Neill found the grass elsewhere no greener, and both have since admitted it. No way do I pretend to know Coach Wojo’s intentions or best path to take....but I know this....the people at MU are first-rate. Wojo knows it because he’s seen it first-hand, and K has too, dating back to his MU-bound HS friends.
Let’s give our Coach every reason to make his best mark right here.
Im pretty sure Wojo would find the grass greener at Duke
-
Maybe its just the way you wrote this but I want to be clear that Buzz did not recruit Wes Matthews.
Yep, and Wes’s improvement under Buzz was mostly due to Dale Layer’s efforts.
-
Respect greatness. Pats, Duke, etc...can be frustrating at times, but they accomplish what they do because they embody greatness.
Cheating is the embodiment of greatness? I'd never expect you to say that.
-
Respect greatness. Pats Yankees, Duke, etc...can be frustrating at times, but they accomplish what they do because they embody greatness.
FIFO
Who is Coach K recruiting that he is in the area?
-
FIFO
Who is Coach K recruiting that he is in the area?
Maybe Jalen J.
-
Didn’t he just call in......from Durham?
-
Didn’t he just call in......from Durham?
He was definitely a caller not in attendance
-
When Crean beat Duke he hung a banner in the Bradley Center.
-
Got the show on Internet radio.
-
When Crean beat Duke he hung a banner in the Bradley Center.
T-Cubed hung a banner each tyme he dropped a deuce, hey?
-
Im pretty sure Wojo would find the grass greener at Duke
Going to be very interesting to see how that unfolds. My guess is if he is offered when K retires he takes the gig. I do think Wojo stays at MU unless Duke comes calling. Duke is just going to be very tough for him and his wife to pass up. It's going home in a sense. I would totally understand that.
-
Are we just going to ignore the fact that Duke somehow got the top 3 guys in the recent recruiting class? Dukes recruiting classes over the last 10 years have looked a lot different than the 90s and early 2000s....$$$$$$$
Sorry, not buying it. The world changed, but the same elite coach is there. They don’t need to cheat. If there is proof, great...show it. Otherwise these one and dones get to play for arguably the best or no worse than top 5 college coach of all time. A guy that will build their brand, get them the right training, coaching, etc to play manybuears in the NBA
-
Cheating is the embodiment of greatness? I'd never expect you to say that.
They have won plenty without cheating. I don’t support cheating. The deflate gate was a joke, but the video taping was much more sinister and if I recall I thought that was not proven. Memore fading?
-
More important Wade and Wojo was on Coach K's, Sirius XM Show. Basketball & Beyond
https://player.siriusxm.com/now-playing
-
Sorry, not buying it. The world changed, but the same elite coach is there. They don’t need to cheat. If there is proof, great...show it. Otherwise these one and dones get to play for arguably the best or no worse than top 5 college coach of all time. A guy that will build their brand, get them the right training, coaching, etc to play manybuears in the NBA
Well Wendell Carter's name came up in the FBI probe for his mom having a meal with Dawkins, someone involved in getting multiple players paid. But I'm sure Mrs. Carter just wanted to meet with him and say thank you but no thanks, Duke isn't offering money but my son can play for free for the greatest coach out there.
And Zion's financial requests were discussed in a conversation between a Kansas assistant coach (a school that was trying to pay basically every 5 star recruit to come to it) and Code. But I'm sure Zion just passed up on the cash and chose Duke, despite it being a complete shock to literally everyone (was thought to be a done deal to Clemson, with UNC and Kansas being FAR more likely than Duke).
You really think that fringe 5 stars were getting paid $100,000.00 by schools but Duke got the top 3 recruits in the country without paying a dime? Come on now.
-
Well Wendell Carter's name came up in the FBI probe for his mom having a meal with Dawkins, someone involved in getting multiple players paid. But I'm sure Mrs. Carter just wanted to meet with him and say thank you but no thanks, Duke isn't offering money but my son can play for free for the greatest coach out there.
And Zion's financial requests were discussed in a conversation between a Kansas assistant coach (a school that was trying to pay basically every 5 star recruit to come to it) and Code. But I'm sure Zion just passed up on the cash and chose Duke, despite it being a complete shock to literally everyone (was thought to be a done deal to Clemson, with UNC and Kansas being FAR more likely than Duke).
You really think that fringe 5 stars were getting paid $100,000.00 by schools but Duke got the top 3 recruits in the country without paying a dime? Come on now.
Then therefore Wojo must be guilty too, since he used to work there. Right? Come on now, how naive can you be....right? They must all be in on it.
The connective tissues with accusations and actual stuff that happens has become weaker and weaker the last few years. Yes, I believe some schools have to pay and others don’t. Yes, I believe that. Having lived in Lawrence and Tucson, yes I can see why someone needs to induce me to attend over other places.
There are plenty of examples over the years of players admitting LONG after their playing days that school Y offered them something but they went elsewhere for nothing. I’d ask you why that isn’t possible here, especially when the result is playing for K and then you get to go to NBA?
-
Then therefore Wojo must be guilty too, since he used to work there. Right? Come on now, how naive can you be....right? They must all be in on it.
The connective tissues with accusations and actual stuff that happens has become weaker and weaker the last few years. Yes, I believe some schools have to pay and others don’t. Yes, I believe that. Having lived in Lawrence and Tucson, yes I can see why someone needs to induce me to attend over other places.
There are plenty of examples over the years of players admitting LONG after their playing days that school Y offered them something but they went elsewhere for nothing. I’d ask you why that isn’t possible here, especially when the result is playing for K and then you get to go to NBA?
The “connective tissues” here is the FBI, so...
And I don’t know about you but personally I think Zion Williamson MIGHT be able to make it to the NBA even if he had to be coached by someone other than Coach K.
-
T-Cubed hung a banner each tyme he dropped a deuce, hey?
Did the same thing at Indiana.
-
If there is proof, great...show it.
Chicos—haven’t you been asked something along these same lines for years now?
Is that other shoe gonna drop?
-
The “connective tissues” here is the FBI, so...
And I don’t know about you but personally I think Zion Williamson MIGHT be able to make it to the NBA even if he had to be coached by someone other than Coach K.
Yup, he could. Which is the point, he is going to make a ton of money next. $100k now is nothing. He said himself that he went to Duke to help grow his brand. Quite frankly, your brand has a better launchpoint there than Kansas or other high major places. It just does if you look at the numbers.
As long as K is there, theybstand the chance of getting that type of class every year under the current rules and there is no reason they have to spend a dime. Others might feel they have to because they don’t have K and don’t have location, conference, tv exposure, etc.
-
Chicos—haven’t you been asked something along these same lines for years now?
Is that other shoe gonna drop?
He gone, right?
-
Yup, he could. Which is the point, he is going to make a ton of money next. $100k now is nothing. He said himself that he went to Duke to help grow his brand. Quite frankly, your brand has a better launchpoint there than Kansas or other high major places. It just does if you look at the numbers.
As long as K is there, theybstand the chance of getting that type of class every year under the current rules and there is no reason they have to spend a dime. Others might feel they have to because they don’t have K and don’t have location, conference, tv exposure, etc.
So did Duke/Coach K just not want that type of class before the past 5 or so seasons or...?
What changed?
-
Never immediately follow a legend unless you are a legend yourself. If Wojo becomes a legend here, then we will all be happy.
Roy Williams situation. After Dean left UNC, what's his face screwed up, then Roy came in as a knight in shining armor. And it's not like Roy had a bum deal at Kansas either.
-
He gone, right?
BS
He was gone BEFORE you made your BS "you just wait, big stuff will come out, other shoes will drop" comments. You had nothing and were just running your mouth about a guy you hated. Why did you hate him and actively root against him? First, you never wanted him. But more importantly, you hated him because he was a better coach than your boy and, worse yet, people liked him. That drove you absolutely batty.
-
Going to be very interesting to see how that unfolds. My guess is if he is offered when K retires he takes the gig. I do think Wojo stays at MU unless Duke comes calling. Duke is just going to be very tough for him and his wife to pass up. It's going home in a sense. I would totally understand that.
After hearing this, my feeling is that the list of places that Wojo would go to is fairly short, although not entirely limited to Duke. I would wonder if Brey left ND if he would go there. But based on where other Coach K acolytes have gone, my guess is that private, fairly serious academic institutions with decent tradition are the only places he’d look, which eliminates a lot of the normal contenders. I feel pretty good about him sticking around for a while.
-
Lenny
I ended up becoming a big Buzz guy and I believe Chico’s is 100% correct on the other shoe(s) dropping. Just because shoes did not drop, does not mean that they do not exist. Quite possibly those shoes are the exact reason why Buzz is no longer here.
-
Lenny
I ended up becoming a big Buzz guy and I believe Chico’s is 100% correct on the other shoe(s) dropping. Just because shoes did not drop, does not mean that they do not exist. Quite possibly those shoes are the exact reason why Buzz is no longer here.
What is this shoe you speak of? You'll need to give a full report to the Underbard at NMD. Bradley's, second floor. Bring Chicos.
-
Then therefore Wojo must be guilty too, since he used to work there. Right? Come on now, how naive can you be....right? They must all be in on it.
The level of irony in this comment is atmospheric. Of course Duke cheats. Same with Kentucky. They cheat, everyone knows it, but you'll never catch K or Cal holding a bag.
The idea that a big brand or big name coach precludes cheating is mind-numbingly stupid in the wake of what's come out with Kansas & Self, Arizona & Miller, & Louisville & Pitino.
And the idea that $100k isn't a big sum because these guys will be worth more in three NBA, also incredibly stupid. It screams of a person that has never had to struggle for finances a day in their life. $100k, $10k, even $100 can be life changing money when you can't afford rent or food, and the idea of "it's okay, you'll be able to make more than that a year from now" is pretty meaningless if you don't have the means to comfortably survive the next 12 months.
It's not a coincidence that Lance Thomas thought he could take a $97k loan. It's not a coincidence that Carter and Williamson have been mentioned in these probes. It's because the shoe companies are working for Duke, just like they are for Kansas, Arizona, Louisville, UNC, Kentucky, and others. That's just the way this sport operates, and any argument otherwise is ridiculously, preposterously, out-of-this-world naive.
-
I don't know what MU's record is against Duke while Coach K has been coach. All time we are W 2, L 6.
I do remember one game MU beat Duke with the three Amigos and Ousman Barro. DJ was head and shoulders above the Duke PG that had the Greek name. Ooze I believe also had a huge game to propel us to victory.
CBE Classic in KC circa early 2000’s?
-
And never get involved in a land war in Asia or go against a Sicilian when death is on the line.
Words to live by
-
Does it, knowing Buzz?
A little bit. Deane was fired by MU, but came back. O'Neill eventually would have been fired, he has been fired everywhere and didn't leave on the best circumstances, but came back.
-
A little bit. Deane was fired by MU, but came back. O'Neill eventually would have been fired, he has been fired everywhere and didn't leave on the best circumstances, but came back.
Comparing things that happened over 20yrs to the most recent coach is not a fair comparison.
-
Comparing things that happened over 20yrs to the most recent coach is not a fair comparison.
Deane wasn't 20 years ago, but you are probably right. Maybe emotions still raw.
-
Didn't Duke self report Lance Thomas situation to NCAA?
Hard to say who cheats and who doesn't, but if it has been systemically happening at Duke, Kansas, North Carolina and others as some here suggest, then Wojo would have to know. Unless the suggestion is that coaching staffs are totally in the blind and everything happens behind the scenes.
-
Unless the suggestion is that coaching staffs are totally in the blind and everything happens behind the scenes.
I don't think anyone is suggesting that. I think everyone knows and many either participate or turn a blind eye.
-
Deane wasn't 20 years ago, but you are probably right. Maybe emotions still raw.
Ok 19yrs ago and 17 at the time. Still I'd say the 10yrs was enough for almost every rational MU fan to heal from Crean let alone O'Neil and for Deane to admit his shortcomings, for Buzz it was two and a half years, even for all his success we were still dealing with the rebuild he forced on us and it wouldn't have been as good. Maybe when he's retired he'll do a Buzz documentary and he'll give us his thoughts.
-
I don't think anyone is suggesting that. I think everyone knows and many either participate or turn a blind eye.
Everyone seems to know a lot about all kinds of things, but doesn't make them true. Accusations run wild these days.
-
Everyone seems to know a lot about all kinds of things, but doesn't make them true. Accusations run wild these days.
Accusations are running wild because there's evidence that has cases in federal court. Don't be so deliberately obtuse. Anyone saying the coaches don't know is choosing stupidity.
-
The level of irony in this comment is atmospheric. Of course Duke cheats. Same with Kentucky. They cheat, everyone knows it, but you'll never catch K or Cal holding a bag.
The idea that a big brand or big name coach precludes cheating is mind-numbingly stupid in the wake of what's come out with Kansas & Self, Arizona & Miller, & Louisville & Pitino.
And the idea that $100k isn't a big sum because these guys will be worth more in three NBA, also incredibly stupid. It screams of a person that has never had to struggle for finances a day in their life. $100k, $10k, even $100 can be life changing money when you can't afford rent or food, and the idea of "it's okay, you'll be able to make more than that a year from now" is pretty meaningless if you don't have the means to comfortably survive the next 12 months.
It's not a coincidence that Lance Thomas thought he could take a $97k loan. It's not a coincidence that Carter and Williamson have been mentioned in these probes. It's because the shoe companies are working for Duke, just like they are for Kansas, Arizona, Louisville, UNC, Kentucky, and others. That's just the way this sport operates, and any argument otherwise is ridiculously, preposterously, out-of-this-world naive.
$100k is a big sum of money. Don’t pretend to know what my upbringing was like or my situation. Lived in third world countries, seen a lot. My point is a lot larger amount awaits him and he absolutely has an insurance policy that if he was hurt tomorrow he will be fine.
When I read things like everybody knows they are all cheating, ok define the cheating. Why isn’t someone like NC State or Wake who share a state doing everything they can to expose them?
I’m not naive to cheating that goes on, but it doesn’t mean they are all doing it or doing what some are implying.
-
$100k is a big sum of money. Don’t pretend to know what my upbringing was like or my situation. Lived in third world countries, seen a lot. My point is a lot larger amount awaits him and he absolutely has an insurance policy that if he was hurt tomorrow he will be fine.
When I read things like everybody knows they are all cheating, ok define the cheating. Why isn’t someone like NC State or Wake who share a state doing everything they can to expose them?
I’m not naive to cheating that goes on, but it doesn’t mean they are all doing it or doing what some are implying.
What happened to Bruce Pearl is probably one reason more don’t speak up. I’m sure most programs are floating in a grey area, so don’t want to throw stones when someone may expose them.
-
Chico’s
I give you credit for continuing discussions with folks “know” more than you do. I love when someone makes a reference about someone’s upbringing or counts other folks money. Minute I see that, I know everything I need to know about that person and what they stand for.
JD, you were missed by this guy. Keep up educating some of these folks.
-
$100k is a big sum of money. Don’t pretend to know what my upbringing was like or my situation. Lived in third world countries, seen a lot. My point is a lot larger amount awaits him and he absolutely has an insurance policy that if he was hurt tomorrow he will be fine.
And that's a dumb take. An insurance policy doesn't give you any money now. The whole point is not waiting for an endorsement or contract or injury.
When I read things like everybody knows they are all cheating, ok define the cheating. Why isn’t someone like NC State or Wake who share a state doing everything they can to expose them?
NC State? You're kidding, right? Have you heard of Dennis Smith?
It's because as has been detailed repeatedly, it's the shoe companies making payments. The coaches may feign ignorance when it benefits them, but that's just the way the sport operates.
I’m not naive to cheating that goes on, but it doesn’t mean they are all doing it or doing what some are implying.
No, but obviously the shoe companies are propping up the biggest programs. The idea that millions of dollars are flying around and Duke & Kentucky pull in the top recruiting classes every year and aren't benefiting is insane.
Not everyone, but if you look at the documents that have been released, it's far more widespread than people ever expected.
-
Brew
Do you thinking cheating happened at MU in the last ten years? My gut says that you think everyone cheats EXCEPT MU. Chico’s gets bashed for the show dropping on Buzz and everyone mocks him. He says that Duke does not need to cheat and you mock him. Try and read the message and ignore who wrote it. Who knows, you might learn something.
-
$100k is a big sum of money. Don’t pretend to know what my upbringing was like or my situation. Lived in third world countries, seen a lot. My point is a lot larger amount awaits him and he absolutely has an insurance policy that if he was hurt tomorrow he will be fine.
When I read things like everybody knows they are all cheating, ok define the cheating. Why isn’t someone like NC State or Wake who share a state doing everything they can to expose them?
I’m not naive to cheating that goes on, but it doesn’t mean they are all doing it or doing what some are implying.
Ask Dennis Smith Jr. why NCState might not want to shout atop the mountain top about Duke cheating...
-
Chico’s
I give you credit for continuing discussions with folks “know” more than you do. I love when someone makes a reference about someone’s upbringing or counts other folks money. Minute I see that, I know everything I need to know about that person and what they stand for.
JD, you were missed by this guy. Keep up educating some of these folks.
🤔
-
Brew
Do you thinking cheating happened at MU in the last ten years? My gut says that you think everyone cheats EXCEPT MU.
Your gut is wrong. I find it unlikely we haven't benefited at times from shoe company connections. That said, I do know of kids we stopped recruiting specifically because they asked for money. Players that continued to be recruited by the school west of us.
But no, as arguably the premier Jordan Brand school in the Big East, I think it's most likely we did benefit and our coaches looked the other way. Because that's just how this business works.
-
Brew
Did you think MU cheated in last ten years or just benefited?
-
Brew
Did you think MU cheated in last ten years or just benefited?
I think the majority of programs benefited. It seems like the companies do what they do and the coaches pretend to not know. Similar to the Self recordings. I would put us in that camp.
I'm sure others would disagree, but if any of our head coaches were directly involved, the least likely one would be Buzz.
-
So did Duke/Coach K just not want that type of class before the past 5 or so seasons or...?
What changed?
The entire basketball work changed. One and dones at high rate of volume. You know this already.
-
Lenny
I ended up becoming a big Buzz guy and I believe Chico’s is 100% correct on the other shoe(s) dropping. Just because shoes did not drop, does not mean that they do not exist. Quite possibly those shoes are the exact reason why Buzz is no longer here.
Worked out for everyone as far as i’m concerned.
-
Worked out for everyone as far as i’m concerned.
.
-
Wades....give K credit, he adapted. The freshmen wait their turn approach was no longer going to cut it at a school like that.
Pretty good article on the change
https://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2018/1/25/16928168/duke-basketball-one-and-done-zion-williamson-coach-k
-
The entire basketball work changed. One and dones at high rate of volume. You know this already.
There have been high rates of one and dones since the day the one and done rule was introduced. Cal was doing it for years before K.
But sure. The FBI has a Kansas assistant on the phone talking about Zion Williams’s financial requirements with one of the shoe people charged with a federal bribery crime but Kansas, a team that has had players sitting out because they were getting paid, weren’t willing to meet Zion’s financial requirements (lol) so he chose to go to Duke for free. Lol.
Or maybe the phone conversation was “I have this 5 star recruit who has financial requirements. He’s asking for $0.00!”
Fair enough Cheeks.
-
Cam Reddish was also seen leaving a restaurant with Rich Paul 2 years ago.
-
Cam Reddish was also seen leaving a restaurant with Rich Paul 2 years ago.
Is this going to be your new Arrieta did roids stick?
-
Completely random, but never knew this until reading the Athletic this morning about Duke and North Carolina pick up games involving Jordan. Duke University was called Trinity College when the rivalry and was renamed after Washington Duke, the father of James Duke. Duke University is the fifth name of the school in their history.
Brown School (1838-1841)
Union Institute (1841-1851)
Normal College (1851-1859)
Trinity College (1859-1924)
Duke University (1924 - today)
-
Is this going to be your new Arrieta did roids stick?
If people are as naïve about all Duke players choosing Duke for free over hundreds of thousands of dollars to play at the likes of Arizona or Kansas as they are about Arrieta never having taken steroids despite being a guy who couldn't stick in the MLB to suddenly "figuring it out" at the young age of 28 years old and becoming the best pitcher in baseball, then sure.
-
Brew
Did you think MU cheated in last ten years or just benefited?
Goose, do you think MU cheated during the Al era?
-
If people are as naïve about all Duke players choosing Duke for free over hundreds of thousands of dollars to play at the likes of Arizona or Kansas as they are about Arrieta never having taken steroids despite being a guy who couldn't stick in the MLB to suddenly "figuring it out" at the young age of 28 years old and becoming the best pitcher in baseball, then sure.
Naive question - Given the obvious "money laundering" involved in such schemes, it makes you wonder why there are not more criminal probes into college athletics?
Jaded question - Given the size, scope, and scale of such schemes, you wonder why law enforcement even bothered with the current criminal probe in college recruiting?
-
Which is surprising, since Pitino should have sympathy for premature departures.
Now...that...is funny.
-
Goose, do you think MU cheated during the Al era?
I remember Bo often drove a really nice Mercedes (registered to Al - hence legal). Every Al did was overt like that. Nothing that was not legal, but often close to the edge. He took great care of the players, so they came for him more than perks.
-
I remember Bo often drove a really nice Mercedes (registered to Al - hence legal). Every Al did was overt like that. Nothing that was not legal, but often close to the edge. He took great care of the players, so they came for him more than perks.
Yeah, it was called Herb Kohl!
-
Cam Reddish was also seen leaving a restaurant with Rich Paul 2 years ago.
Where they discussed hyperinflation, quantitative easing by the Fed, Shaka, the National Debt clock, silver/gold as the only real money.....
It’s Happening!
Oops. Wrong R. Paul.
-
BC
Sent you a PM
-
War1980rior
I do not believe any cars were ever titled in Al’s name. That said, Bo had a great drop top Eldorado one summer, if memory serves me.
-
There have been high rates of one and dones since the day the one and done rule was introduced. Cal was doing it for years before K.
But sure. The FBI has a Kansas assistant on the phone talking about Zion Williams’s financial requirements with one of the shoe people charged with a federal bribery crime but Kansas, a team that has had players sitting out because they were getting paid, weren’t willing to meet Zion’s financial requirements (lol) so he chose to go to Duke for free. Lol.
Or maybe the phone conversation was “I have this 5 star recruit who has financial requirements. He’s asking for $0.00!”
Fair enough Cheeks.
Anything is possible. However, I think it is also fair enough to say that some schools need to do things others don't. I think it has been proven over the years that a few schools offered $$ and others didn't, and even in some of those situations they decided to go without the money for other reasons. That doesn't mean Duke or anyone else isn't cheating, but I do question at this point in time why some of them would have to. They get who they want and if they don't, they get options 1A or 1B. It isn't worth the risk for someone that has been doing this for 30 years, has a legacy to worry about, etc. In my opinion.
-
Coach K still passin' on WI recruits and tellin' 'em to commit ta Wojo, hey?
-
That doesn't mean Duke or anyone else isn't cheating, but I do question at this point in time why some of them would have to. They get who they want and if they don't, they get options 1A or 1B. It isn't worth the risk for someone that has been doing this for 30 years, has a legacy to worry about, etc. In my opinion.
In Calipari's first five years at Kentucky, he landed 17 kids in the RSCI's top 20. Duke landed 5.
Kentucky went to three Final Fours and an Elite 8. Duke went to one Final Four (Cal's firsts eason at Ky), one Elite 8 and were bounced in the first round twice.
Kentucky had 13 players go in the first round of the NBA draft, including eight lottery picks. Duke had seven, including three lottery picks.
There's your motivation.
-
If people are as naïve about all Duke players choosing Duke for free over hundreds of thousands of dollars to play at the likes of Arizona or Kansas as they are about Arrieta never having taken steroids despite being a guy who couldn't stick in the MLB to suddenly "figuring it out" at the young age of 28 years old and becoming the best pitcher in baseball, then sure.
Having lived on KU's campus....you might have to pay me to play there vs what I experienced at Duke. :)
-
Cheeks
Spot on.
-
Having lived on KU's campus....you might have to pay me to play there vs what I experienced at Duke. :)
I mean, Marvin Bagley's family straight up admit that they relied on Nike sponsorships while he was in high school to live off of. They filed for bankruptcy and sold their house in Arizona in 2011 and reported a household income of $44,000.00/year. 4 years later, when Nike had Marvin's father start an AAU team and sponsored it, Marvin and his family were living in a gated in community in California where houses sold for $750,000.00 to $1.5M and rented for up to $7,500.00/month.
But I'm sure Nike had absolutely no pull in Bagley ending up at Duke. ::)
I can't believe there are actually people out there that believe Duke doesn't pay players. (Okay, you got me, it's Nike paying the players and Duke/Coach K "Doesn't know/have anything to do with it.")
-
The shoe endorsement deals have been going on for a long, long time. In fact, an MU grad from Al era was one of the first guys on Nike bandwagon. The shoe guys changed the game and how it works today. Nike knows, and has known for decades, how to grease the wheel.
-
War1980rior
I do not believe any cars were ever titled in Al’s name. That said, Bo had a great drop top Eldorado one summer, if memory serves me.
I believe he had a Thunderbird at one point, when he was stopped by the Milwaukee Police.
As to the question of whether Coach McGuire cheated, I doubt it. In the early 1970s, Coach McGuire and the NCAA were not on the best of terms. Had to do with the NCAA being in the back pocket of Adolph Rupp, the head basketball coach at the University of Kentucky. As best I can tell, Adolph and Coach McGuire hated each other because our coach had been successful with African-American basketball players. Adolph was a bigot.
The little hint of the NCAA's interest in Marquette went to the outburst Coach McGuire had after the Kansas State game in 1977, on the way to our NatChamp. Coach McGuire was vicious in his criticism of the NCAA and the general thought was it was a release of a ton of pent up emotion and anger. If Coach McGuire had broken the rules, he'd been given a colonoscopy so many times that they would have caught it immediately and Marquette would STILL be on probation!
Keep in mind the rules were very different then than they are now. Also, keep in mind that Coach McGuire was a pioneer in recruiting African American athletes (along with several other coaches) and folks who went to Marquette knew they were getting a fair deal.
-
The shoe endorsement deals have been going on for a long, long time. In fact, an MU grad from Al era was one of the first guys on Nike bandwagon. The shoe guys changed the game and how it works today. Nike knows, and has known for decades, how to grease the wheel.
Absolutely. It goes on at many schools, including Duke.
-
I mean, Marvin Bagley's family straight up admit that they relied on Nike sponsorships while he was in high school to live off of. They filed for bankruptcy and sold their house in Arizona in 2011 and reported a household income of $44,000.00/year. 4 years later, when Nike had Marvin's father start an AAU team and sponsored it, Marvin and his family were living in a gated in community in California where houses sold for $750,000.00 to $1.5M and rented for up to $7,500.00/month.
But I'm sure Nike had absolutely no pull in Bagley ending up at Duke. ::)
I can't believe there are actually people out there that believe Duke doesn't pay players. (Okay, you got me, it's Nike paying the players and Duke/Coach K "Doesn't know/have anything to do with it.")
Yes, and the NCAA and Duke both went through the vetting process. I get where you are coming from....I have no doubt there are endless coaches and programs that would love to take each other down. Thus far, it appears either they are doing it really well, or there is no concrete evidence to be had.
https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/duke/duke-now/article207327084.html
As much as people are saying Kentucky this, Duke that.....the two programs have won a total of three of the last 15 titles. Yes, that's significant, but plenty of other schools winning without one and dones at the level those two turn them over.
-
Absolutely. It goes on at many schools, including Duke.
If so, it will come out eventually. Someone will squeal, have the evidence, write a book, do the tell all story, etc. Always comes out eventually.