I hope Rick has a big smile on his face. His pupil won a great game. Congrats, Rambler's.
Go Jesuits!!
Great ending. My Dad (a Loyola grad) is loving life right now.
Not a young team
Dano
Congrats to your Dad. They were a very good program for years and I am happy to see a potential rebirth.
jesmu
That is a high level coached team.
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 04:34:32 PM
jesmu
That is a high level coached team.
More importantly, not a young team.
Would be great if MU was coached at a high level, right?
Gotta get your shots in on wojo.
So great!!
#SisterJean
Grandfather's alma mater so I guess I can cheer for them. Plus the whole getting Depaul jealous enough to actually care would be nice
Who was the old lady being interviewed?
jesmu
Quite honestly, I am big time happy for Loyola. Throw darts in another thread. I will gladly shoot you down elsewhere.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 15, 2018, 04:38:11 PM
Grandfather's alma mater so I guess I can cheer for them. Plus the whole getting Depaul jealous enough to actually care would be nice
Who was the old lady being interviewed?
98 year old nun, team chaplain.
Boxer
That "old lady" is awesome.
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 04:42:26 PM
Boxer
That "old lady" is awesome.
I agree just asking who she was because I'd seen her be interviewed a few times and had no idea.
jesmu
I was raised differently. Would not ask a question regarding a 98 year old women in the manner you did.
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 04:49:50 PM
jesmu
I was raised differently. Would not ask a question regarding a 98 year old women in the manner you did.
You mean me not jesmu I'm assuming.
It's not like I called her an ancient hag or something truly insulting. Is she old? 98 by all objective standards is old. Is lady a respectful term when you aren't aware if she's the nun or previous coach's wife or what not? Yes it is. Jeeze and you guys call the millenials snowflakes for calling out actual disrespect to people.
Go Jesuits! Ramblers, Gonzaga, and Xavier still alive!
Boxer
I did not say better, I said differently. Big difference. I have no fxxkin idea what snowflake is, so use that argument elsewhere.
Porter Moser played at Creighton. Great game, even greater shot.
Said it before; say it again...
11 seed is easiest high-seed path to regionals (for non-protected seed), i.e. if you're not better than a 5, the 11 is where it's at.
Skoloyola.
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 04:38:19 PM
jesmu
Quite honestly, I am big time happy for Loyola. Throw darts in another thread. I will gladly shoot you down elsewhere.
Someone is becoming a little sensitive lately
jesmu
I am flying high today. Spending the day with my 24y son and having a great day. Just because I do not like you, do not mistake for being overly sensitive.
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 05:07:39 PM
Boxer
I did not say better, I said differently. Big difference. I have no fxxkin idea what snowflake is, so use that argument elsewhere.
You seem really upset this site has a swearing filter today. Maybe try a Snickers?
Brew
There is a swearing filter? You scooped me again.
Goose:
You are a great fan and good poster. I look forward to your posts.
Today you are coming across as a passive aggressive jerk. Suggest you take a break for a while and go have a cocktail or something you like better.
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 05:07:39 PM
Boxer
I did not say better, I said differently. Big difference. I have no fxxkin idea what snowflake is, so use that argument elsewhere.
You guys is meant for people your age of the General posters on this board. Not directly at you.
Perhaps the misunderstanding is because if you weren't insinuating "better" then I see no reason to post that in the first place. Since I didn't see a need for you to write it then the assumption is that there is an underlying insinuation that you were raised better and chose to word it in a more passive aggressive way. But I've been known to be wrong and if that is the case then I'm not surprised we were raised different and wouldn't have it any other way
Boxer
I could not care less how you were raised, but I assume and hope you were raised the right way. My comment was quite simple, I would not call a woman an old lady without knowing who the person is.
Nice to see Loyola win. I'm curios if Larranga will blame fatigue like he did when we whipped him in the sweet 16 game, glad to see that idiot go down.
Yet another coach who has proven over his long, storied career that he is vastly superior to Wojo.
How the hell did Marquette end up with the very worst coach in all of college basketball?
Oh, woe is us.
MU 82
Huh? Who said Wojo was the worst coach in basketball?
I meant basketball history.
Management regrets the error.
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 07:28:15 PM
MU 82
Huh? Who said Wojo was the worst coach in basketball?
82 is trolling you
Quote from: Newsdreams on March 15, 2018, 08:20:25 PM
82 is trolling you
To be fair, he's earned it lately
Normally like the guy. Strange persona turn the last week or so
My nephew will be a freshman at Loyola in September (he was rejected by Marquette which is where he really wanted to go). Anyway he and a bunch of his boys came to my house this afternoon to watch he game. They were going nuts when that shot fell. I was really happy for him because most people on the East coast hear Loyola and think Baltimore.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 15, 2018, 08:22:42 PM
To be fair, he's earned it lately
Normally like the guy. Strange persona turn the last week or so
I know look at 20-7 thread
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 05:39:53 PM
Boxer
I could not care less how you were raised, but I assume and hope you were raised the right way. My comment was quite simple, I would not call a woman an old lady without knowing who the person is.
I am sure sister Jean would fully cop to being an old lady. She is probably pretty proud of it.
I can't believe with all the disrespect towards females that happens on this board that someone is giving Boxer crap about the term "old lady". Sure there might be nicer terms to use, but I doubt that "old lady" is offensive to anyone over 70.
Speaking of which, there is a nice artlcle about her on Deadspin. Check out the headline:
https://deadspin.com/we-like-this-old-nun-from-loyola-chicago-1823815614
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 04:34:32 PM
jesmu
That is a high level coached team.
Strong correlation between high level coached team and experience of team / youth, do you not agree?
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 05:39:53 PM
Boxer
I could not care less how you were raised, but I assume and hope you were raised the right way. My comment was quite simple, I would not call a woman an old lady without knowing who the person is.
So bygones be bygones? Or?
Quote from: warriorchick on March 15, 2018, 09:04:09 PM
I am sure sister Jean would fully cop to being an old lady. She is probably pretty proud of it.
I can't believe with all the disrespect towards females that happens on this board that someone is giving Boxer crap about the term "old lady". Sure there might be nicer terms to use, but I doubt that "old lady" is offensive to anyone over 70.
Speaking of which, there is a nice artlcle about her on Deadspin. Check out the headline:
https://deadspin.com/we-like-this-old-nun-from-loyola-chicago-1823815614
Thank you
Larranaga's reactions, especially when replayed in slomo, were priceless!
#Custer2MU
I get real leery about transfers from mid-majors when they started at high majors and did terrible. Custer has come a long way from his days at Iowa State where he was an afterthought. He certainly passes the eye test now. Would be curious to see how he would handle a higher level of competition every day.
Warriorchick
For the record, I hope I have not disrespected women on here and if I did/do feel free to bring to my attention. In addition, after reading TAMU's response to my early post, sorry if I misunderstood your post.
Quote from: Goose on March 16, 2018, 01:05:37 AM
Warriorchick
I would very much welcome you pointing out where I have disrespected women on this board. If you want to bash me, feel free, but please show me my disrespect to women. My post regarding the "old lady" was sincere. I challenge you to find one person that knows me to say otherwise. You may me dislike me, but I would very much appreciate you refraining from talking atop your high horse in regards to me and my character.
If I'm reading her post correctly, it's not that you have disrespected women. It's that others have disrespected women on this board with terms and posts much worse than "old lady" but no one has called them out.
Quote from: Goose on March 16, 2018, 01:05:37 AM
Warriorchick
For the record, I hope I have not disrespected women on here and if I did/do feel free to bring to my attention. In addition, after reading TAMU's response to my early post, sorry if I misunderstood your post.
Well, there was this from two days earlier, which I already did point out to you, and you brushed off:
Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2018, 01:45:28 PM
If you can have seven close friends/family members join you for an NIT game at the girls gym on two day notice, you must be a very, very nice woman. Have to admit, I am jealous.
But basically, what TAMU said.
Look, I don't offend easily. I might point out smaller "infractions"(like the above) for educational purposes, but I save my anger for the truly demeaning, destructive stuff. In the scheme of things, "old lady" is pretty benign. I am more than 40 years younger than Sister Jean, and I don't even get offended by being called that (although I may jokingly feign outrage on occasion).
I pick my battles, and so should you. That's all I am saying.
After MU, I also got a degree from Loyola. While in school and a few years after, I went to a couple of games (late 80's).
Tuesday, someone in my office who knows that I went to LU asked if I was excited about Loyola. While I have enjoyed following Loyola's success and the Sr. Jean stories over the past several weeks, I hadn't been thinking of LU as "my team" at all. I haven't been to a Loyola game in more than 25 years.
But I sure felt like being a band-wagon jumper while watching the ending yesterday.
So, go Nova, Rambers, Big East and Gonzaga (in that order).
Warriorchick
As I stated in the 20-7 thread, I had a bad hair day yesterday and apologize. That said, I might be overly sensitive on discussions about older people. Over the years I have taken great pride and trying to help and be kind to the the elderly. I truly believe that they often are the forgotten folks in society and I feel that is a shame. I realize he did not mean anything, just thought the wording was not the right way of inquiring about her.
Again, I take responsibility for going off the rails a bit yesterday. Possibly a few cocktails watching the games with my son added fuel to the fire.
Quote from: Goose on March 16, 2018, 08:18:51 AM
Warriorchick
As I stated in the 20-7 thread, I had a bad hair day yesterday and apologize. That said, I might be overly sensitive on discussions about older people. Over the years I have taken great pride and trying to help and be kind to the the elderly. I truly believe that they often are the forgotten folks in society and I feel that is a shame. I realize he did not mean anything, just thought the wording was not the right way of inquiring about her.
Again, I take responsibility for going off the rails a bit yesterday. Possibly a few cocktails watching the games with my son added fuel to the fire.
I figured.
We're good. :-*
Can we finally kick out DePaul and replace them with Loyola? Loyola is at least serious about men's basketball.
Porter Moser has such a positive energy. He is one of the good guys. He was one of Majerus' first hires. (Tony Barone connection) Moser did the bulk of Rick's recruiting. If you get the chance, watch the play drawn up for Loyola to tie game late on the Custer 3. It has Rick written all over it. Porter has done a nice job of coaching on and off of the floor.
Quote from: Goose on March 16, 2018, 08:18:51 AM
Warriorchick
As I stated in the 20-7 thread, I had a bad hair day yesterday and apologize. That said, I might be overly sensitive on discussions about older people. Over the years I have taken great pride and trying to help and be kind to the the elderly. I truly believe that they often are the forgotten folks in society and I feel that is a shame. I realize he did not mean anything, just thought the wording was not the right way of inquiring about her.
Again, I take responsibility for going off the rails a bit yesterday. Possibly a few cocktails watching the games with my son added fuel to the fire.
As someone who has perpetually bad hair, this offends me.
Quote from: Jables1604 on March 15, 2018, 08:25:50 PM
My nephew will be a freshman at Loyola in September (he was rejected by Marquette which is where he really wanted to go). Anyway he and a bunch of his boys came to my house this afternoon to watch he game. They were going nuts when that shot fell. I was really happy for him because most people on the East coast hear Loyola and think Baltimore.
I hope for our sake your nephew to take a nice leisurely drive up 94 next year to watch Custer play (or turn on FS1)
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 16, 2018, 08:45:05 AM
Loyola is at least serious about men's basketball.
We'll see.
I am a Loyola undergraduate alum and am thoroughly enjoying this season with hope the run continues for the Ramblers. It's been a long time since 1985 (and 1963). I also witnessed some of the Rambler/Warrior battles at the Alumni Gym and International Amphitheater back in the 70's and became a Marquette fan long before one of my sons attended MU. I've probably seen more MU games than Loyola games. We both appreciate the Al, Majerus, Moser coaching lineage and how the play of the Ramblers reflects that.
Quote from: Benny B on March 16, 2018, 09:03:17 AM
As someone who has perpetually bad hair, this offends me.
Having bad hair is 10x better than having no hair. ;D
Quote from: jsglow on March 16, 2018, 10:18:32 AM
Having bad hair is 10x better than having no hair. ;D
Depends on the hair.
I've had bad hair. I currently have very little hair. At the time, bad hair is better. From a long term perspective, keeping it high and tight wins.
Chicago NCAA Tournament wins last 28 years
Loyola 1
Northwestern 1
DePaul 1
Imagine if someone told you that in the 70's or 80's as a prediction.
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 04:34:32 PM
jesmu
That is a high level coached team.
Loyola roster, look at the starting five and what pops out?
Redshirt
Junior - Starter, leading scorer (double figures), leading assists
Senior - Starter, 2nd leading scorer (double figures), leading rebounder
Junior - Starter, 3rd leading scorer (double figures)
Senior - Starter, 4th leading scorer (double figures)
Freshman - Starter, 5th leading scorer (double figures)
Here is the rest of the team.
Senior
Senior
Senior
Senior
Grad Student
Junior
Sophomore
Sophomore
Sophomore
Sophomore
Freshman
Freshman
Freshman
Extremely experienced teams make coaches look very good.
Quote from: shoothoops on March 16, 2018, 08:46:34 AM
Porter Moser has such a positive energy. He is one of the good guys. He was one of Majerus' first hires. (Tony Barone connection) Moser did the bulk of Rick's recruiting. If you get the chance, watch the play drawn up for Loyola to tie game late on the Custer 3. It has Rick written all over it. Porter has done a nice job of coaching on and off of the floor.
Porter's a good guy. Was a heck of a player at Benet in the late '80s, then had a good career at Creighton. His coaching career has taken an interesting path from hot very young head coach to taking a step back to learn under Majerus, and now lifting up Loyola back near his home town. Loyola seems like a great fit; it will be interesting to see if/how long they can keep him. I hope so.
Quote from: jsglow on March 16, 2018, 10:18:32 AM
Having bad hair is 10x better than having no hair. ;D
Speak for yourself.
I can fix bad hair. But since I lost mine, it would be a bear to fix it.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 16, 2018, 03:41:41 PM
Speak for yourself.
I can fix bad hair. But since I lost mine, it would be a bear to fix it.
Still have my hair
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 16, 2018, 11:28:35 AM
Loyola roster, look at the starting five and what pops out?
Redshirt Junior - Starter, leading scorer (double figures), leading assists
Senior - Starter, 2nd leading scorer (double figures), leading rebounder
Junior - Starter, 3rd leading scorer (double figures)
Senior - Starter, 4th leading scorer (double figures)
Freshman - Starter, 5th leading scorer (double figures)
Here is the rest of the team.
Senior
Senior
Senior
Senior
Grad Student
Junior
Sophomore
Sophomore
Sophomore
Sophomore
Freshman
Freshman
Freshman
Extremely experienced teams make coaches look very good.
Not young, hey?
Quote from: Newsdreams on March 16, 2018, 11:36:47 PM
Still have my hair
I can affirm that Newsie has good hair.
Quote from: warriorchick on March 17, 2018, 09:44:38 AM
I can affirm that Newsie has good hair.
Chick approves 8-)
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 16, 2018, 11:28:35 AM
Loyola roster, look at the starting five and what pops out?
Redshirt Junior - Starter, leading scorer (double figures), leading assists
Senior - Starter, 2nd leading scorer (double figures), leading rebounder
Junior - Starter, 3rd leading scorer (double figures)
Senior - Starter, 4th leading scorer (double figures)
Freshman - Starter, 5th leading scorer (double figures)
Here is the rest of the team.
Senior
Senior
Senior
Senior
Grad Student
Junior
Sophomore
Sophomore
Sophomore
Sophomore
Freshman
Freshman
Freshman
Extremely experienced teams make coaches look very good.
They start a freshman!?!!
Quote from: We R Hagans to MU on March 17, 2018, 03:56:49 PM
They start a freshman!?!!
The kid is an absolute tank, holding up well.
HOLY F. Wow. Way to go Loyola.
Rambles, "Tickle the Twines" Congrats .
Like Tim Brando would say, the iron is kind.
Very well coached team!!
Add them to the Big East!
Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2018, 07:22:49 PM
Very well coached team!!
Think it has anything to do with age/experience of the players?
Guess that Custer kid will stick around, making himself into a Loyola legend.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 17, 2018, 07:23:41 PM
Think it has anything to do with age/experience of the players?
If you look at KenPom, their experience is 145 out of 351. Probably has more to do with the multiple other factors that drive b-ball wins.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 17, 2018, 07:28:54 PM
If you look at KenPom, their experience is 145 out of 351. Probably has more to do with the multiple other factors that drive b-ball wins.
Experience certainly helpful. Yet Avery Johnson had his Alabama team ranked 348 of 351 in experience in the Round of 32. Personally, I don't feel we were that* young/inexperienced this year...at least not our starting 5.
Forget SLU, I'll settle for LU! Exciting with Chicagoland kids driving this and for Porter.
Dr.
I agree 1000%. Very excited and happy for the Ramblers. Again, I hope Rick is eating all the ribs in heaven.
I think they'll have a solid shot at another win in the next game regardless of which team it is. Cinci and Nevada are beatable teams. Don't know which would be better for Loyola from a matchup standpoint, one would guess Nevada.
Definitely rooting for them
In this era, this Loyola run is everything that's right with college basketball
Quote from: yetipro on March 17, 2018, 08:27:01 PM
I think they'll have a solid shot at another win in the next game regardless of which team it is. Cinci and Nevada are beatable teams. Don't know which would be better for Loyola from a matchup standpoint, one would guess Nevada.
Definitely rooting for them
Likely will be Cincy. Cincy really strong defensively, but so was TN. Loyola stands a chance.
Loyola's offensive scheme reminds me of buzz's midget team. Constant driving and dishing and making the next pass until there is an open 3 or a lay up. I see some majerus in their defense.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 17, 2018, 08:30:48 PM
Likely will be Cincy. Cincy really strong defensively, but so was TN. Loyola stands a chance.
Interesting. Think we should be rooting for the wolves then?
Tower
100% Rick D and they move the ball much better than Buzz teams.
Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2018, 08:40:18 PM
Tower
100% Rick D and they move the ball much better than Buzz teams.
I'm thinking of the midget team, specifically.
Quote from: yetipro on March 17, 2018, 08:40:09 PM
Interesting. Think we should be rooting for the wolves then?
The Kettle Wolves.
Happy to see. Loyola advance - went to 7 undergrad there, grad to MU. Qswett 16 is awesome for them!
Quote from: Daniel on March 17, 2018, 08:58:46 PM
Happy to see. Loyola advance - went to 7 undergrad there, grad to MU. Qswett 16 is awesome for them!
you should probably change the password for any of your accounts that have '7Qswett' as the password
Quote from: Goose on March 17, 2018, 07:22:49 PM
Very well coached team!!
Experience everywhere, which is why it is easier to coach. Watch how well coached our team is suddenly when they are juniors and seniors.
Quote from: nyg on March 17, 2018, 07:28:16 PM
Guess that Custer kid will stick around, making himself into a Loyola legend.
I think Moser sticks around too, not really an opening that make sense for him. I think Loyola will do their best to scrounge up some money for him, great exposure for the school.
They move the ball so well
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 17, 2018, 09:30:49 PM
Experience everywhere, which is why it is easier to coach. Watch how well coached our team is suddenly when they are juniors and seniors.
Yea. Just like we were last year with all of 4/5 year players: JJJ, Duane, Luke, Katin, Rowsey.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 17, 2018, 10:20:30 PM
Yea. Just like we were last year with all of 4/5 year players: JJJ, Duane, Luke, Katin, Rowsey.
Burn!
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 17, 2018, 10:20:30 PM
Yea. Just like we were last year with all of 4/5 year players: JJJ, Duane, Luke, Katin, Rowsey.
Gotta admit, your relentlessness - your absolute primitive need to be right about everything, no matter how many times you have to beat a dead horse to submission - is incredible.
Too bad it will end soon when you're banned again.
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 16, 2018, 10:37:19 AM
Chicago NCAA Tournament wins last 28 years
Loyola 1 2
Northwestern 1
DePaul 1
Imagine if someone told you that in the 70's or 80's as a prediction.
Updated. Seriously, the BE must have the cash to work out a DePaul for Loyola trade. Time for Val to step up her game!
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 17, 2018, 10:20:30 PM
Yea. Just like we were last year with all of 4/5 year players: JJJ, Duane, Luke, Katin, Rowsey.
EXACTLY! Glad you finally get it. When we had experienced players we made the NCAA tournament. Even though as freshmen JJJ was at the back of the bench for a team that missed the NIT, Duane was a starter for the worst the worst team in modern Marquette history, and Luke couldn't get any minutes at Indiana, they got older, developed (despite Wojo's demotivation), and once they added experienced transfers in Katin and Rowdy, became a unit capable of making the dance. Duane was the only one who didn't develop but that was because of his legs repeatedly self destructing beneath him.
So if JJJ can develop from a guy who averaged 13.5 mpg, 4.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.4 spg, 0.1 bpg, .443 FG%, .290 3P% for a team that didn't even make the freakin NIT, into a guy who was a key starter for a NCAA at large team, imagine what guys like Greg Elliott, Jamal Cain, and Theo John, who are putting up better numbers for a team that did make the freakin NIT could develop into. Future is bright! 8-)
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 18, 2018, 12:05:10 AM
EXACTLY! Glad you finally get it. When we had experienced players we made the NCAA tournament. Even though as freshmen JJJ was at the back of the bench for a team that missed the NIT, Duane was a starter for the worst the worst team in modern Marquette history, and Luke couldn't get any minutes at Indiana, they got older, developed (despite Wojo's demotivation), and once they added experienced transfers in Katin and Rowdy, became a unit capable of making the dance. Duane was the only one who didn't develop but that was because of his legs repeatedly self destructing beneath him.
So if JJJ can develop from a guy who averaged 13.5 mpg, 4.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.4 spg, 0.1 bpg, .443 FG%, .290 3P% for a team that didn't even make the freakin NIT, into a guy who was a key starter for a NCAA at large team, imagine what guys like Greg Elliott, Jamal Cain, and Theo John, who are putting up better numbers for a team that did make the freakin NIT could develop into. Future is bright! 8-)
Information. You can be sure it will wash over Ners like all facts do.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 17, 2018, 11:48:17 PM
Updated. Seriously, the BE must have the cash to work out a DePaul for Loyola trade. Time for Val to step up her game!
I'd trade DePaul for a bag of bats. Loyola would be gravy
Well, this guy is going straight to Hell...
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/mioyco4by9iby2g5qr5e.png)
Did I mention this guy works for FoxSports?
Quote from: warriorchick on March 18, 2018, 09:31:31 AM
Well, this guy is going straight to Hell...
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/mioyco4by9iby2g5qr5e.png)
Did I mention this guy works for FoxSports?
What a dick. Another tough guy on Twitter.
He will for sure get fired by Monday.
Holy posterizing...Sister has some lift.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYh6Pf2XkAMJrLJ.jpg:large)
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 18, 2018, 12:05:10 AM
EXACTLY! Glad you finally get it. When we had experienced players we made the NCAA tournament. Even though as freshmen JJJ was at the back of the bench for a team that missed the NIT, Duane was a starter for the worst the worst team in modern Marquette history, and Luke couldn't get any minutes at Indiana, they got older, developed (despite Wojo's demotivation), and once they added experienced transfers in Katin and Rowdy, became a unit capable of making the dance. Duane was the only one who didn't develop but that was because of his legs repeatedly self destructing beneath him.
So if JJJ can develop from a guy who averaged 13.5 mpg, 4.3 ppg, 1.1 rpg, 1.0 apg, 0.4 spg, 0.1 bpg, .443 FG%, .290 3P% for a team that didn't even make the freakin NIT, into a guy who was a key starter for a NCAA at large team, imagine what guys like Greg Elliott, Jamal Cain, and Theo John, who are putting up better numbers for a team that did make the freakin NIT could develop into. Future is bright! 8-)
No doubt TAMU. Matter of perspective. In my view, last year's group was coached up to a 10 seed, despite all that experience being buoyed by two freshman Markus and Sam, who were the Number 1 and Number 30, 3-point shooters in all of basketball. Yep. A 10-seed, being the Number 1, 3pt shooting team in all of college basketball, the Number 4 team in eFG%...you know..that thing that "reigns supreme."
This year's starting lineup includes a 5th year player, 2 Juniors in Heldt and Sacar (yes, I call a guy 3 years in the program a junior), and 2 sophomores who played big minutes last year. Not exactly "young."
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 18, 2018, 09:37:39 AM
He will for sure get fired by Monday.
In this day and age, likely. Sadly. Pretty sure there was humorous intent, and not malice in what he tweeted.
Quote from: StillWarriors on March 16, 2018, 12:09:32 PM
Porter's a good guy. Was a heck of a player at Benet in the late '80s, then had a good career at Creighton. His coaching career has taken an interesting path from hot very young head coach to taking a step back to learn under Majerus, and now lifting up Loyola back near his home town. Loyola seems like a great fit; it will be interesting to see if/how long they can keep him. I hope so.
He gowne, hey?
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 18, 2018, 09:45:31 AM
In this day and age, likely. Sadly. Pretty sure there was humorous intent, and not malice in what he tweeted.
You have to be f*cking kidding me.
Quote from: warriorchick on March 18, 2018, 10:09:30 AM
You have to be f*cking kidding me.
Sincere outrage, or faux? I happen to think the tweet was done tongue in cheek - politically incorrect humor/humor noir.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 18, 2018, 10:25:52 AM
Sincere outrage, or faux? I happen to think the tweet was done tongue in cheek - politically incorrect humor/humor noir.
If you look at his body of twitter work Chick is probably right (except for the whole "hell is actually real" thing) and you are cutting him too much slack. He seems to be a Tennessee fanboy who puts too much stake and pride in how the Vols perform.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 18, 2018, 12:05:10 AM
EXACTLY! Glad you finally get it. When we had experienced players we made the NCAA tournament. Even though as freshmen JJJ was at the back of the bench for a team that missed the NIT, Duane was a starter for the worst the worst team in modern Marquette history, and Luke couldn't get any minutes at Indiana, they got older, developed (despite Wojo's demotivation), and once they added experienced transfers in Katin and Rowdy, became a unit capable of making the dance.
Duane played on the 1988-89 Warriors squad?
Quote from: DUNKS45 on March 18, 2018, 09:36:29 AM
What a dick. Another tough guy on Twitter.
He's now doing the victim thing too with a poll about if he is the "most hated man in America."
This is the state of sports media in this country. Hot takes that are of extremely poor taste to draw attention to one's self.
If he doesn't get fired it is a validation of what is wrong with sports media more than anything.
Quote from: warriorchick on March 18, 2018, 09:31:31 AM
Well, this guy is going straight to Hell...
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/mioyco4by9iby2g5qr5e.png)
Did I mention this guy works for FoxSports?
Guy is a total piece of garbage.
For the people who say he was "just kidding," do you think he might have taken into context that this is a 98-year old nun? People use the f-bomb all the time with politicians and such, and while I'm not crazy about that, I can live with it. But a 98-year old nun? Seriously?!?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2018, 11:34:01 AM
Guy is a total piece of garbage.
For the people who say he was "just kidding," do you think he might have taken into context that this is a 98-year old nun? People use the f-bomb all the time with politicians and such, and while I'm not crazy about that, I can live with it. But a 98-year old nun? Seriously?!?
I can live with it, the amount of social media trash that we are supposed to all be "outraged" with daily is way too much for me personally. Seeing as this is probably the least important piece of trash on that long list, I could really care less.
He is trash, no question, but I don't know why it matters or why he should lose his job over it. I'm sure he'll get a talking to but we can't just ruin people's careers now for saying trashy things. If we are going to do that, then let's first start with all the people posting racial hatred/etc, fire that whole group of people. Let's get through that list first, maybe a few others and then we can start on the people posting unnecessary comments.
Quote from: naginiF on March 18, 2018, 10:43:32 AM
If you look at his body of twitter work Chick is probably right (except for the whole "hell is actually real" thing) and you are cutting him too much slack. He seems to be a Tennessee fanboy who puts too much stake and pride in how the Vols perform.
I didn't check out his Twitter for his body of work..just took this tweet on its own. I'd assume he was intending to be humorous
Visiting after church with friends, one a domer, one a Flyer. We laughed that the one thing we could agree on was 'Go, Loyola.'
Quote from: yetipro on March 18, 2018, 12:05:46 PM
I can live with it, the amount of social media trash that we are supposed to all be "outraged" with daily is way too much for me personally. Seeing as this is probably the least important piece of trash on that long list, I could really care less.
He is trash, no question, but I don't know why it matters or why he should lose his job over it. I'm sure he'll get a talking to but we can't just ruin people's careers now for saying trashy things. If we are going to do that, then let's first start with all the people posting racial hatred/etc, fire that whole group of people. Let's get through that list first, maybe a few others and then we can start on the people posting unnecessary comments.
Yeah I guess I should say reprimanded instead of fired.
The thing that bothers me however is that the tweet is still up and he has not apologized for something that was clearly inappropriate.
I am sure Sister Jean has forgiven him and prayed for him. Both things reveal the character of the persons involved.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 18, 2018, 12:15:03 PM
Yeah I guess I should say reprimanded instead of fired.
The thing that bothers me however is that the tweet is still up and he has not apologized for something that was clearly inappropriate.
Meant to add that as well, I can't believe he has left the tweet up.
Who is supposed to find that funny? Philadelphia Eagle fans?
Not a fireable offense IMHO, though as a member of the sports media he should get some sort of reprimand from his boss. I would also imagine that potential employers may be hesitant to hire him in the future.
However, just because its not a fireable offense doesn't mean it wasn't a trash tweet by a trash twatter. This was confirmed by his response to people's outrage.
Quote from: yetipro on March 18, 2018, 12:05:46 PM
I can live with it, the amount of social media trash that we are supposed to all be "outraged" with daily is way too much for me personally. Seeing as this is probably the least important piece of trash on that long list, I could really care less.
He is trash, no question, but I don't know why it matters or why he should lose his job over it. I'm sure he'll get a talking to but we can't just ruin people's careers now for saying trashy things. If we are going to do that, then let's first start with all the people posting racial hatred/etc, fire that whole group of people. Let's get through that list first, maybe a few others and then we can start on the people posting unnecessary comments.
Hiring and firing is an employment decision. And employers rightfully make those decisions based in large part on how the employee reflects on the company when using platforms that clearly identify the employer. This guy - in addition to being a complete jerk - posted something that reflects very poorly on his employer because he used a twitter account that very clearly identifies his employment affiliation.
If Fox doesn't fire him, they don't come out looking very good....
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 18, 2018, 12:36:37 PM
Hiring and firing is an employment decision. And employers rightfully make those decisions based in large part on how the employee reflects on the company when using platforms that clearly identify the employer. This guy - in addition to being a complete jerk - posted something that reflects very poorly on his employer because he used a twitter account that very clearly identifies his employment affiliation.
If Fox doesn't fire him, they don't come out looking very good....
This is a single granule of sand on the entire beach of things that haven't made Fox look very good. And in comparison this is a particularly small granule of sand.
It's not a Fox decision. It will be a decision made by those who own the station.
Quote from: yetipro on March 18, 2018, 01:04:19 PM
This is a single granule of sand on the entire beach of things that haven't made Fox look very good. And in comparison this is a particularly small granule of sand.
We will agree to disagree.
An affront to the Roman Catholic religion. Arrest him!
It's a hate crime. Send in SWAT.
MU should resume playing Loyola in Nov. - Dec. It's Chicago's Jesuit university and they obviously are a pretty good program once again. We used to play them twice a season, home and away. MU- Loyola series dates all the way back to 1924. I'd rather see us play them every season instead of one of the cupcakes.
Quote from: WarriorHal on March 18, 2018, 03:07:34 PM
MU should resume playing Loyola in Nov. - Dec. It's Chicago's Jesuit university and they obviously are a pretty good program once again. We used to play them twice a season, home and away. MU- Loyola series dates all the way back to 1924. I'd rather see us play them every season instead of one of the cupcakes.
Not to be too cynical but this is all true until their coach leaves. Then who knows.
Quote from: WarriorHal on March 18, 2018, 03:07:34 PM
MU should resume playing Loyola in Nov. - Dec. It's Chicago's Jesuit university and they obviously are a pretty good program once again. We used to play them twice a season, home and away. MU- Loyola series dates all the way back to 1924. I'd rather see us play them every season instead of one of the cupcakes.
I have been saying this exact same thing for a long time.
Quote from: WarriorHal on March 18, 2018, 03:07:34 PM
MU should resume playing Loyola in Nov. - Dec. It's Chicago's Jesuit university and they obviously are a pretty good program once again. We used to play them twice a season, home and away. MU- Loyola series dates all the way back to 1924. I'd rather see us play them every season instead of one of the cupcakes.
I'd rather not waste one of MU's few home-and-home series on Loyola. They're having a terrific season and all, but their RPIs in the previous five seasons have been 177th, 237th, 121st, 289th and 308th.
On strictly a buy game basis? Sure. Maybe even a 4-for-1. Though I doubt Loyola would want such an arrangement.
Quote from: WarriorHal on March 18, 2018, 03:07:34 PM
MU should resume playing Loyola in Nov. - Dec. It's Chicago's Jesuit university and they obviously are a pretty good program once again. We used to play them twice a season, home and away. MU- Loyola series dates all the way back to 1924. I'd rather see us play them every season instead of one of the cupcakes.
Missouri Valley supposedly has a policy that their teams don't accept buy game offers. While they would have been worth a home and home this season, most seasons they are nowhere near home and home worthy.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 18, 2018, 03:20:40 PM
I'd rather not waste one of MU's few home-and-home series on Loyola. They're having a terrific season and all, but their RPIs in the previous five seasons have been 177th, 237th, 121st, 289th and 308th.
On strictly a buy game basis? Sure. Maybe even a 4-for-1. Though I doubt Loyola would want such an arrangement.
Agree.
My recall is that LOYOLA will not play Marquette due to bitterness left over from when MU ditched the MCC for DePaul and the Great Midwest or whatever the conference was called.
Quote from: WarriorHal on March 18, 2018, 03:07:34 PM
MU should resume playing Loyola in Nov. - Dec. It's Chicago's Jesuit university and they obviously are a pretty good program once again.
One year does not make a program... in the previous ten years, they had one single season where they were 5 games or more over .500.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 18, 2018, 06:17:33 PM
My recall is that LOYOLA will not play Marquette due to bitterness left over from when MU ditched the MCC for DePaul and the Great Midwest or whatever the conference was called.
Let's just leave it the way it is and root for them every 20 years or so when they are good. We have enough Catholic schools on the schedule already!
I would rather have a home and home with Loyola than buy games with Houston Baptist.
Quote from: Herman Cain on March 18, 2018, 08:47:11 PM
I would rather have a home and home with Loyola than buy games with Houston Baptist.
Cut the athletic department some checks and make that a stipulation
Quote from: Benny B on March 15, 2018, 05:13:06 PM
Said it before; say it again...
11 seed is easiest high-seed path to regionals (for non-protected seed), i.e. if you're not better than a 5, the 11 is where it's at.
Skoloyola.
6 is better than 11 (actually the same, but you get to play an 11 instead of a 6), but I agree I'd rather be an 11 than a 7 thru 10 seed.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 18, 2018, 06:17:33 PM
My recall is that LOYOLA will not play Marquette due to bitterness left over from when MU ditched the MCC for DePaul and the Great Midwest or whatever the conference was called.
Seeing as Loyola just ditched the Horizon League for the MVC it would be rather hypocritical for them to still think this way.
I hope Rick is eating all the ribs in heaven tonight. Great win, Ramblers!!
So when do we stop rooting for loyola? I mean I'm all for the underdogs, jesuits connections, local to me etc. but at what point does it turn from that to straight up jealousy that a team with 6 NCAA appearances has almost the same number of final fours as us?
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 22, 2018, 10:52:22 PM
So when do we stop rooting for loyola? I mean I'm all for the underdogs, jesuits connections, local to me etc. but at what point does it turn from that to straight up jealousy that a team with 6 NCAA appearances has almost the same number of final fours as us?
If this run isn't the absolute evidence of how anything can happen in a tournament, I'm not sure what is. An inch difference in the first game, they lose. Bounce by one inch in the second game, they lose. Same for tonight. Cinderella, but one inch decides if a team is great or a coach is great? Ha. Personally I'll take the experience level they have.
I'd be OK with Bruce Weber getting back to the Final Four after he was screwed over by Illinois. Seems like a good guy and a decent coach.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 22, 2018, 10:52:22 PM
So when do we stop rooting for loyola?
When they get to the game with Nova. Maybe.
Wen dey outrecruit Wojo four Chicago talent, hey?
Quote from: #bansultan on March 23, 2018, 06:38:14 AM
I'd be OK with Bruce Weber getting back to the Final Four after he was screwed over by Illinois. Seems like a good guy and a decent coach.
I like Weber also. I believe KSU clobbers them because they are very, very physical and aggressive on the defensive end.
Hoping for a good game though.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 23, 2018, 06:38:14 AM
I'd be OK with Bruce Weber getting back to the Final Four after he was screwed over by Illinois. Seems like a good guy and a decent coach.
Bruce is a good dude. When Illinois were in the Sweet 16 at Allstate they did a walk through at Maine East high school.
Probably should have been closed doors as they went through UW-Milwaukee's entire game plan but he allowed Maine East's basketball team there among others to stay and watch in the balcony and proceeded to come up and say hi to everyone (Along with Dee Brown) when they finished.
New York Times, baby!!!!
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/22/sports/basketball/loyola-sister-jean-nun-ncaa-tournament.html
"Sister Margaret... the NYT is here to do a photo shoot for a story on Sister Jean and Loyola's success. Could you perhaps put something on to show some school pride."
"Of course."
Quote from: nyg on March 23, 2018, 07:25:33 AM
I like Weber also. I believe KSU clobbers them because they are very, very physical and aggressive on the defensive end.
Hoping for a good game though.
Tennessee was too. 6th in defense per kenpom. Kansas State is 14th. Also very good.
How long has she been with Loyola? Was she affiliated with them during the sweet 16 in the 80s? The 63 championship?
Quote from: #bansultan on March 23, 2018, 06:38:14 AM
I'd be OK with Bruce Weber getting back to the Final Four after he was screwed over by Illinois. Seems like a good guy and a decent coach.
How was he screwed over by Illinois?
Quote from: LAZER on March 23, 2018, 03:15:00 PM
How was he screwed over by Illinois?
He shouldn't have been let go.
The only question remaining about this Elite Eight game is whether Candace Parker will be wearing a Loyola jersey in studio today. She promised to wear one during the Sweet 16 games, but it did not happen.
Go Warriors!
Charles Barkley offered to take Sister Jean to dinner at F4 if LU makes it.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 23, 2018, 05:20:26 PM
He shouldn't have been let go.
The biggest criticism of Weber was that the success he had at the beginning of his tenure was due to the players that Self recruited before leaving for Kansas. In his last five years, Illinois missed the tournament three times. He didn't advance to the Sweet 16 since taking the team to the NCAA Championship many years prior.
While I do think he is a good coach, and am happy for his success at K-State, it was absolutely time for him to move on when he was let go from Illinois. The fans, alumni and boosters expected more and recruiting was going downwards. Having said that, and looking at where Illinois has been since, the hiring of Groce was detrimental and devastating to that program. Their former AD had some really bad hires (Beckman in football was another).
Underwood is viewed favorably by Chicago area high schools, especially CPS schools - which is incredibly important. In due time, they will be back.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 23, 2018, 06:38:14 AM
I'd be OK with Bruce Weber getting back to the Final Four after he was screwed over by Illinois. Seems like a good guy and a decent coach.
He hankered after the MU job a while back, no?
Quote from: wildbillsb on March 24, 2018, 04:00:38 PM
He hankered after the MU job a while back, no?
He was already at KSU when Buzz left. Did he want it then?
I knew the MVC taking Loyola was a good move...lol.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=38413.msg490865#msg490865
Quote from: #bansultan on March 24, 2018, 06:24:49 PM
I knew the MVC taking Loyola was a good move...lol.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=38413.msg490865#msg490865
Yup, most of us were wrong in dissing MVC taking Loyola.
LU looks like such a Rick coached team. All the nuanced play. I am really enjoying this run.
Quote from: Goose on March 15, 2018, 04:34:32 PM
jesmu
That is a high level coached team.
porter moser is a naperville and benet academy stud-same school as frankie k!
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 24, 2018, 06:31:18 PM
LU looks like such a Rick coached team. All the nuanced play. I am really enjoying this run.
Awfully impressive.
Call me impressed, I thought KSU would win easily. Long way to go, but this is like George Mason thing going on.
Very impressed with that Krutwig kid, big guy has great hands, passes well, etc. three star recruit and good get by Loyola.
Quote from: nyg on March 24, 2018, 06:37:08 PM
Call me impressed, I thought KSU would win easily. Long way to go, but this is like George Mason thing going on.
Very impressed with that Krutwig kid, big guy has great hands, passes well, etc. three star recruit and good get by Loyola.
Yes, Krutwig is a real anchor for this team.
Quote from: nyg on March 24, 2018, 06:37:08 PM
Call me impressed, I thought KSU would win easily. Long way to go, but this is like George Mason thing going on.
Very impressed with that Krutwig kid, big guy has great hands, passes well, etc. three star recruit and good get by Loyola.
Kstate sucks they were never winning this easy
I think they're really going to come crashing down in the final four.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 24, 2018, 06:46:48 PM
Kstate sucks they were never winning this easy
They made Elite 8, so they really don't suck. Just out played so far tonight.
Quote from: nyg on March 24, 2018, 06:48:37 PM
They made Elite 8, so they really don't suck. Just out played so far tonight.
Their leading scorer is hurt and not playing.
Quote from: nyg on March 24, 2018, 06:48:37 PM
They made Elite 8, so they really don't suck. Just out played so far tonight.
They went 0-7 against the top 3 of the big 12
Kstate is not a good team.
They also beat a 16 seed to get here.
Tourney is crazy, things happen. On paper this Kstate team is not very talented
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 24, 2018, 06:54:28 PM
They went 0-7 against the top 3 of the big 12
Kstate is not a good team.
They also beat a 16 seed to get here.
Tourney is crazy, things happen. On paper this Kstate team is not very talented
Paper, whatever. Beat Creighton and Kentucky also. They made Elite 8, so they don't suck. Each is own.
Now, does Loyola blow 23 point lead with nine minutes to go. That would be ugly.
That should do it. Great effort. Let's hope Nova wins, would be a fun matchup.
Done rooting for them. If Loyola were to somehow win the championship and have two titles with 6 tournament appearances it pretty sure my head would explode
Quote from: nyg on March 24, 2018, 07:00:44 PM
Paper, whatever. Beat Creighton and Kentucky also. They made Elite 8, so they don't suck. Each is own.
Now, does Loyola blow 23 point lead with nine minutes to go. That would be ugly.
No they suck.
It's a bad team. For the record Creighton isn't any good either
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 24, 2018, 07:11:25 PM
No they suck.
It's a bad team. For the record Creighton isn't any good either
So it's not just Marquette you crap on. Got it.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 24, 2018, 07:10:50 PM
Done rooting for them. If Loyola were to somehow win the championship and have two titles with 6 tournament appearances it pretty sure my head would explode
Maybe they'll be like the Cubs in 2016.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 24, 2018, 06:24:49 PM
I knew the MVC taking Loyola was a good move...lol.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=38413.msg490865#msg490865
;)
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 24, 2018, 07:10:50 PM
Done rooting for them. If Loyola were to somehow win the championship and have two titles with 6 tournament appearances it pretty sure my head would explode
C'mon BPB, I know you are going to root for the Ramblers. You cannot possibly not root for this team.
Quote from: LloydsLegs on March 24, 2018, 07:18:19 PM
C'mon BPB, I know you are going to root for the Ramblers. You cannot possibly not root for this team.
This is why college basketball is superior to college football. Any D1 team has a shot, not just the chosen few.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 24, 2018, 06:54:28 PM
They went 0-7 against the top 3 of the big 12
Kstate is not a good team.
They also beat a 16 seed to get here.
Tourney is crazy, things happen. On paper this Kstate team is not very talented
It's almost beyond belief that a team such as K State, without a senior, and largely without their best player available was able to get to the Elite 8. As we all know, you shouldn't expect much out of a young team.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 24, 2018, 06:31:18 PM
LU looks like such a Rick coached team. All the nuanced play. I am really enjoying this run.
Rick has to be smiling.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 24, 2018, 07:27:21 PM
It's almost beyond belief that a team such as K State, without a senior, and largely without their best player available was able to get to the Elite 8. As we all know, you shouldn't expect much out of a young team.
They're actually pretty experienced. A lot of juniors on that team.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 24, 2018, 07:27:21 PM
It's almost beyond belief that a team such as K State, without a senior, and largely without their best player available was able to get to the Elite 8. As we all know, you shouldn't expect much out of a young team.
I'm glad you bring that up. Some here probably would have preferred Weber fired after the 15-16 season. The team was CLEARLY on a downtrend...
QuoteShortly after the end of Weber's first season, starting point guard Angel Rodriquez and reserve forward Adrian Diaz announced their intentions to transfer.[7][8] Also, freshman guard Michael Orris, a member of Weber's original recruiting class, left the team to join Northern Illinois.[9] Kansas State's roster was further thinned when incoming freshman Neville Fincher was declared ineligible for the 2013–14 season, and incoming point guard Jevon Thomas was declared ineligible for the fall semester.[10][11]
Weber started his second season at Kansas State 0–1 after losing at home to the Big Sky Conference's Northern Colorado Bears, but finished the non-conference schedule with an 8-game winning streak and a 10–3 record. In its first conference game, Kansas State upset #6 Oklahoma State and earned a #25 ranking in the following week's AP Poll. The team finished the regular season with a 20–12 record, 10–8 in the Big 12 and returned to the NCAA Tournament for a school-record fifth straight season.
Weber's third season at Kansas State ended with a 15–17 record (8–10 in Big 12 play). The school did not advance to the NCAA Tournament for the first time since 2009. The losing record was just the second for Weber in his 17 seasons as a head coach. Following the season, Weber's squad saw the transfer and departure of six scholarship players, including Marcus Foster, Jevon Thomas, Nigel Johnson, Tre Harris and Malek Harris.[12]
As a result of the departure of those players, the 2015–16 season was difficult. The Wildcats finished 17–15, 5–13 in Big 12 play.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2018, 07:31:59 PM
I'm glad you bring that up. Some here probably would have preferred Weber fired after the 15-16 season. The team was CLEARLY on a downtrend...
Weber should have played more zone that year.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 24, 2018, 07:16:46 PM
Maybe they'll be like the Cubs in 2016.
Highly unlikely.
More likely is some school throws a buttload of cash at Moser, and he bolts knowing that 3 of his 6 best players are graduating, which would cause 2 of the other 6 best to grad transfer since they're really seniors too. Then they go back to winning 10-15 games a year as per usual.
The Ners of ScoopLoyola would have declared Moser a total failure years ago.
"I just know there's no way this guy can even lead us into the NIT, let alone the NCAA Final Four. And that's a fact."
One simple question-why does Loyola have these players and we don't?
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 24, 2018, 07:27:21 PM
It's almost beyond belief that a team such as K State, without a senior, and largely without their best player available was able to get to the Elite 8. As we all know, you shouldn't expect much out of a young team.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/B4ORVnBvJCVvq/giphy.gif)
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 24, 2018, 07:31:59 PM
I'm glad you bring that up. Some here probably would have preferred Weber fired after the 15-16 season. The team was CLEARLY on a downtrend...
Possibly. Yet considering Weber made the NCAA his first two years at K-State, he earned a little more grace. We missed the NIT our first two years under Wojo. Weber's now made the tourney 4 out of 6 years. An Elite 8 appearance. Now has 4 NCAA tourney wins in his 6 years at K-State.
Furthermore, Weber had a lot of success prior to coming to K-State. Solid run at Illinois and Southern Illinois.
So, not exactly an apples to apples comp.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 24, 2018, 07:25:57 PM
This is why college basketball is superior to college football. Any D1 team has a shot, not just the chosen few.
Not that I agree or disagree, but most would disagree with your statement. Just look at the ratings. Football is far superior.
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on March 24, 2018, 07:59:51 PM
Not that I agree or disagree, but most would disagree with your statement. Just look at the ratings. Football is far superior.
Bunch of dumb jocks! ;)
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 24, 2018, 07:45:49 PM
One simple question-why does Loyola have these players and we don't?
recognizing talent and that talent to fit your(the coach's) system. trust the system. remember jimmy v? many laughed when he had a "cut down the nets" drill-they believed in the man
Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 24, 2018, 08:11:17 PM
recognizing talent and that talent to fit your(the coach's) system. trust the system. remember jimmy v? many laughed when he had a "cut down the nets" drill-they believed in the man
if I am reading you correctly, the reason we don't have the players Loyola has is that we failed to recognize them and identify them as quality players and even if we did they didn't fit our coach's system. Shouldn't we be getting the best possible players and tailor the system to fit the talent? I mean, we are Marquette and we're sitting at home while players we could have probably had have advanced to the final four! What's wrong with this picture?
Pretty cool scenes in Rogers Park right now.
So out of curiosity do you all think loyola could use this run to get a bid to the A10? I mean the MVC is never going to be back to the three bus league it was a few years back so their best bet would be to try to get to the A10 right? Assuming they want to have consistent success.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 24, 2018, 08:29:56 PM
So out of curiosity do you all think loyola could use this run to get a bid to the A10? I mean the MVC is never going to be back to the three bus league it was a few years back so their best bet would be to try to get to the A10 right? Assuming they want to have consistent success.
Loyola wouldn't make that move. Travel cost.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 24, 2018, 08:29:56 PM
So out of curiosity do you all think loyola could use this run to get a bid to the A10? I mean the MVC is never going to be back to the three bus league it was a few years back so their best bet would be to try to get to the A10 right? Assuming they want to have consistent success.
The MVC and A10 are basically the same.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 24, 2018, 08:33:45 PM
The MVC and A10 are basically the same.
This year yeah but you don't think the A10 has a higher ceiling?
Quote from: #bansultan on March 24, 2018, 08:33:45 PM
The MVC and A10 are basically the same.
Nah. A10much much deeper.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 24, 2018, 08:34:53 PM
This year yeah but you don't think the A10 has a higher ceiling?
Sure. Not by much. Travel cost is a much fit in the MVC.
Congrats, Ramblers!!
Quote from: Nukem2 on March 24, 2018, 08:36:06 PM
Nah. A10much much deeper.
If Dayton, VCU, UMass, St. Louis, St. Joe's, Richmond could be what they should or might be. Yep, A-10 is a solid league.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 24, 2018, 08:34:53 PM
This year yeah but you don't think the A10 has a higher ceiling?
Perhaps. But not significantly. As Mr. Nielson points out, the travel costs are an issue. I know they are for SLU right now.
Quote from: Nukem2 on March 24, 2018, 08:36:06 PM
Nah. A10much much deeper.
Not sure it's *much* deeper. There's a lot of crap in both conferences.
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on March 24, 2018, 07:59:51 PM
Not that I agree or disagree, but most would disagree with your statement. Just look at the ratings. Football is far superior.
"Superior" and "higher ratings" are not the same thing.
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 24, 2018, 08:24:07 PM
if I am reading you correctly, the reason we don't have the players Loyola has is that we failed to recognize them and identify them as quality players and even if we did they didn't fit our coach's system. Shouldn't we be getting the best possible players and tailor the system to fit the talent? I mean, we are Marquette and we're sitting at home while players we could have probably had have advanced to the final four! What's wrong with this picture?
Why didn't all 75 other power conference teams get them either?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 24, 2018, 08:45:21 PM
"Superior" and "higher ratings" are not the same thing.
Tell that to the helmet head shows. Tell that to most who say college hoops is a three week sport.
Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2018, 07:40:49 PM
The Ners of ScoopLoyola would have declared Moser a total failure years ago.
"I just know there's no way this guy can even lead us into the NIT, let alone the NCAA Final Four. And that's a fact."
Loyola has been irrelevant for 35 years. "Patience" at a school like Loyola makes sense. Plus, Moser is a local guy with ties to the area.
Where did I ever say Wojo is a total failure? I've said he's a mediocre coach (that doesn't have the "it" factor it takes to juice a team to a few more wins per year.) We don't shoot elite, we don't win. There's been no other "punch" or way for us to win games. I have said he's improved and gotten better with his substitutions after being, what I felt, abysmal his first couple of years.
If we aspire to be a bubble program, I have no doubt Wojo can achieve bubble status at MU. My goal for the program is a consistent NCAA team, with runs to Sweet 16 every few years.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 24, 2018, 09:12:47 PM
Loyola has been irrelevant for 35 years. "Patience" at a school like Loyola makes sense. Plus, Moser is a local guy with ties to the area.
Where did I ever say Wojo is a total failure? I've said he's a mediocre coach (that doesn't have the "it" factor it takes to juice a team to a few more wins per year.) We don't shoot elite, we don't win. There's been no other "punch" or way for us to win games. I have said he's improved and gotten better with his substitutions after being, what I felt, abysmal his first couple of years.
If we aspire to be a bubble program, I have no doubt Wojo can achieve bubble status at MU. My goal for the program is a consistent NCAA team, with runs to Sweet 16 every few years.
33 years
Congrats to Loyola. Extremely well coached team. Great kids. Happy for our fellow Jesuit school. And if they can do it, we can again too.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on March 24, 2018, 06:46:48 PM
Kstate sucks they were never winning this easy
I sure wish we sucked as bad as K St does
Loyola of Chicago is the 4th best team in the country, at worst. Despite being an 11 seed, despite being ranked 30th in Ken Pom, despite losing by 34 points to Boise State, despite losing to Milwaukee by 17, despite losing to Indiana State, Bradley and Missouri State, so goes the crazy talk this time of year. Perfect bracket destruction for them and they take advantage of it. Luck has always played a role for some teams, the good kind and the bad kind of luck.
It is the tournament, anything can happen. I hope they win the tournament, but rest assured that makes them the NCAA Tournament Champion.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 24, 2018, 08:57:07 PM
Why didn't all 75 other power conference teams get them either?
i don't care about the other 75 power conference teams.
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 24, 2018, 10:40:39 PM
i don't care about the other 75 power conference teams.
If that last second shot in game one was this much longer |-----------------------------------| it hits the back rim and Loyola loses in the first round.
Think about that for a moment as so many get overly excited or depressed on the outcome of basketball games in a tournament on a given day when anything can happen.
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 24, 2018, 10:27:05 PM
Loyola of Chicago is the 4th best team in the country, at worst. Despite being an 11 seed, despite being ranked 30th in Ken Pom, despite losing by 34 points to Boise State, despite losing to Milwaukee by 17, despite losing to Indiana State, Bradley and Missouri State, so goes the crazy talk this time of year. Perfect bracket destruction for them and they take advantage of it. Luck has always played a role for some teams, the good kind and the bad kind of luck.
It is the tournament, anything can happen. I hope they win the tournament, but rest assured that makes them the NCAA Tournament Champion.
Teams come together at the right time, they are hitting on all cylinders. They just destroyed a high major team in an Elite 8 game and previously beat a 3 and a 6 seed.
I'm not really sure whether you're just mad they got this far, or what.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on March 24, 2018, 09:27:10 PM
Congrats to Loyola. Extremely well coached team. Great kids. Happy for our fellow Jesuit school. And if they can do it, we can again too.
Congratulations for sure. Experience is the key. Well coached, but older kids that listen and apply experience on the court matters. Cannot wait until we have that type of experienced leadership on the court.
Quote from: yetipro on March 24, 2018, 10:48:59 PM
Teams come together at the right time, they are hitting on all cylinders. They just destroyed a high major team in an Elite 8 game and previously beat a 3 and a 6 seed.
I'm not really sure whether you're just mad they got this far, or what.
I am thrilled for them. What I don't buy into is the coaching is the reason, these are seasoned kids with a junior and senior dominated team. I had them over Miami and didn't think it was much of an upset at all, Ken Pom has them rated below Loyola. Tennessee was a nice win. Nevada toss up game and toss up result. Kansas State is ranked 42nd in Ken Pom, lower than Loyola. Was it even an upset?
I want the Ramblers to win the whole thing. For all the P5 jerks out there that say only their schools should be in the tournament, it is runs like this that remind the sports conscious of this country how awful of an idea that would be. Go Ramblers.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 24, 2018, 09:12:47 PM
Loyola has been irrelevant for 35 years. "Patience" at a school like Loyola makes sense. Plus, Moser is a local guy with ties to the area.
Where did I ever say Wojo is a total failure? I've said he's a mediocre coach (that doesn't have the "it" factor it takes to juice a team to a few more wins per year.) We don't shoot elite, we don't win. There's been no other "punch" or way for us to win games. I have said he's improved and gotten better with his substitutions after being, what I felt, abysmal his first couple of years.
If we aspire to be a bubble program, I have no doubt Wojo can achieve bubble status at MU. My goal for the program is a consistent NCAA team, with runs to Sweet 16 every few years.
If I mischaracterized your feelings about Wojo's coaching ability, I apologize.
Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2018, 11:23:19 PM
If I mischaracterized your feelings about Wojo's coaching ability, I apologize.
Well...understandable as I've been 90 percent critical/bearish. But..not to level of thinking Wojo is a failure. No apology necessary.
I think you may confuse my criticism of Wojo as me rooting against the guy. That is not the case whatsoever. Always want MU to win and will be totally thrilled if Wojo can get it done on a consistent level - NCAA team vast majority of years with an occasion run in tourney.
Fast break on the lake!
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 24, 2018, 07:54:18 PM
Possibly. Yet considering Weber made the NCAA his first two years at K-State, he earned a little more grace.
Really, have you not seen what k-state fans think of him? This was posted in Feb 2016 (follow the comments)
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/fire-bruce-weber-restore-k-state-basketball
Plus there are "fire bruce weber" twitter and facebook accounts created by k-state fans.
He earned none of the grace you suggest he *should* have at k-state.
Anyhow, sorry for the derail.
Congrats to Loyola - glad their fanbase can keep enjoying this.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 25, 2018, 12:11:20 AM
Really, have you not seen what k-state fans think of him? This was posted in Feb 2016 (follow the comments)
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/fire-bruce-weber-restore-k-state-basketball
Plus there are "fire bruce weber" twitter and facebook accounts created by k-state fans.
He earned none of the grace you suggest he *should* have at k-state.
Anyhow, sorry for the derail.
Congrats to Loyola - glad their fanbase can keep enjoying this.
Gentile Center capacity: 4900
Wish Rahm, Madigan et al could've built Wintrust at the other end of Lake Shore Drive.
I have been saying for several years we need to be doing some kind of series with 2:1 3:1 etc with Loyola. Maybe this year can give some momentum.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 25, 2018, 12:11:20 AM
Really, have you not seen what k-state fans think of him? This was posted in Feb 2016 (follow the comments)
https://www.ipetitions.com/petition/fire-bruce-weber-restore-k-state-basketball
Plus there are "fire bruce weber" twitter and facebook accounts created by k-state fans.
He earned none of the grace you suggest he *should* have at k-state.
Anyhow, sorry for the derail.
Congrats to Loyola - glad their fanbase can keep enjoying this.
I am positive there are Kansas State fans disappointed with this run because it probably buys Weber a couple more years. There's definitely a faction that still adamantly wants him out, and I'd say they are larger and more vocal than our own Wojo bashers.
Loyola used to have a hobo mascot. Bo Rambler. This happened and I wish it was still happening: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/breaking/ct-met-loyola-ncaa-tournament-mascot-bo-rambler-20180313-story,amp.html
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 24, 2018, 08:24:07 PM
if I am reading you correctly, the reason we don't have the players Loyola has is that we failed to recognize them and identify them as quality players and even if we did they didn't fit our coach's system. Shouldn't we be getting the best possible players and tailor the system to fit the talent? I mean, we are Marquette and we're sitting at home while players we could have probably had have advanced to the final four! What's wrong with this picture?
ok, first off, i like wojo and i really want to see him do well here for all the obvious reasons. my comment leaned more to why loyola is hitting on all cylinders right now. porter moser, maybe with the exception of having some modest success at arkansas-little rock(54-34/3years) he struggled at illinois st.(51-67/4 years). with the exception of 2014-15(24-13), he has not done all that well in loyola. so this seems to be the year, his 14th year coaching overall and 7th at loyola. he is 226-211 overall. good on him however-persistence directed in the right way as he believed, is working out. do we have this kind of patience with wojo? i'm not on the board, but just throwing that out there...
i haven't followed them enough, but my point is that he stuck to and trusted his system and got the players doing the same. also, in order to get to where a loyola is today in the ncaa tourney, there is a thing called-everything coming together at the right moment. either all the players are playing above their potential and are "clicking" and/or when one is down, another picks it up. injuries usually at a minimum. and then the "dagger" SISTER JEAN" almost makes it no fair(that was a joke for those of you in...)
this(the sister jean thing) will be interesting; how it will be treated at a national level given the polarity religions seem to cause. particularly Catholicism. so far as i see it, the media is doing really well with it. the next week will be telling as it hits the epitome of the spotlight being down to 4 teams of course, but i digress-
whether or not porter's system will be considered genius remains to be seen. even if he doesn't win it all, going forward with different players, will he have continued success? we have (here in scoop) discussed this quite a bit-someone did bring up that whole analysis of head coaches and the ones who have gone on to become standout coaches were not necessarily "savants" right out of the gate. there were growing pains before they showed a consistency. where they were able to attract the "A" or high "B" level talent over time. unless loyola comes over to the big east(is that really a possibility?) i doubt porter will be there long enough to prove some of my theories.
1960's-70's loyola, depaul and MU created 3 of the greatest local rivalries around. george ireland, the meyer father-son duo and Al-what a great group of coaches that was.
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 24, 2018, 10:27:05 PM
Loyola of Chicago is the 4th best team in the country, at worst. Despite being an 11 seed, despite being ranked 30th in Ken Pom, despite losing by 34 points to Boise State, despite losing to Milwaukee by 17, despite losing to Indiana State, Bradley and Missouri State, so goes the crazy talk this time of year. Perfect bracket destruction for them and they take advantage of it. Luck has always played a role for some teams, the good kind and the bad kind of luck.
It is the tournament, anything can happen. I hope they win the tournament, but rest assured that makes them the NCAA Tournament Champion.
Total crapshoot, aina?
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on March 24, 2018, 08:58:34 PM
Tell that to the helmet head shows. Tell that to most who say college hoops is a three week sport.
You completely missed my point.
"Higher ratings" is an objective measure. "Superior" is a subjective judgment.
Like I said, they are
not the same thing....
Rocket, how did the media treat Villanova being a Catholic school? Sister Jean is just a fun story. You are correct about Moser's overall record. Who here would have been championing Moser a month ago, a year ago? Or even if Loyola had missed the shot against Miami. A great story. An awesome story. Everybody loves a Cinderella story. But for anybody to say 'we need a coach like Moser' means they are missing the big picture and his overall record as a head coach and what he had accomplished before this year.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 25, 2018, 07:12:10 AM
I am positive there are Kansas State fans disappointed with this run because it probably buys Weber a couple more years. There's definitely a faction that still adamantly wants him out, and I'd say they are larger and more vocal than our own Wojo bashers.
Weber is an interesting story. I was covering Illinois in his first season, 2003-04. The fanbase was furious that Self left for Kansas, and they wanted him replaced with a "big-time" coach, not a guy from Southern Illinois. (They even gave token interest to Crean, and I wrote a column that pissed off some Illinois fans in which I said Illinois wasn't as good a job as they thought it was - certainly no better than Marquette.)
The Illini started 4-2 that season. The first loss was a close one to UNC but the second was a blowout loss to Providence in the preseason NIT - a humiliation on national TV at the Garden. Weber was having trouble getting the team's stars, Self loyalists Dee Brown, Deron Williams, etc, to buy into what he wanted to do. (This was a few years before it became common practice for players recruited by departed coaches to bolt.)
A vocal section of the fanbase wanted Weber fired on the spot. "Let's cut our losses now. The guy obviously can't coach."
Before the next game, Weber walked into the locker room dressed in black. "I wore black to tell the guys that it's over, it's a funeral of Bill Self in that he's no longer the coach here. He's no longer the coach here, so we've got to move forward and go on.''
The ploy was met with derision by fans ... but Illinois won its next 6 games and later closed the regular season with a 10-game winning streak. They finished 26-7 and reached the Sweet 16, where they lost to Duke. The following season, they were ranked No. 1 most of the way and lost the national championship game to UNC in a nail-biter to finish 37-2.
For the next few years, the fanbase was divided between those who thought Weber was a brilliant coach who was being unfairly dogged, and a bad coach who merely had capitalized on the guys Self had brought in. The beginning of the end for him was when Eric Gordon rescinded his commitment and went to Indiana instead, "proving" Weber couldn't recruit well enough to compete at the highest level.
Of course, since firing Weber, Illinois has been drifting through the basketball wilderness.
I don't follow K-State as closely as I followed Illinois during the Weber years, but I wouldn't be surprised if similar factions there are battling now.
I thought he was a good to very good game coach and a genuinely good guy whom most players considered "corny" and old-fashioned. He doesn't excite recruits the way so many "big-personality" coaches do.
I'm not surprised to hear that many K-State fans would rather the team have sucked this season so that they could rid themselves of Weber once and for all ... and now they're worried they'll be "stuck" with him for another year or 3.
It'll never happen, but I would love to replace DePaul in the Big East with Loyola. Give them Wintrust Arena. They would at least get fans there.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 25, 2018, 10:35:59 AM
It'll never happen, but I would love to replace DePaul in the Big East with Loyola. Give them Wintrust Arena. They would at least get fans there.
They can't even get 2,000 to the on campus arena. They'd pack it for about 6 games next year before the students and alumni realized they're back to being less than average and stopped making the trip down to the south loop.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 25, 2018, 10:39:42 AM
They can't even get 2,000 to the on campus arena. They'd pack it for about 6 games next year before the students and alumni realized they're back to being less than average and stopped making the trip down to the south loop.
They will now. They have instantly become a national sensation, and become the city's top men's basketball team. With all the new revenue the school will now get, including the new admissions due to the Flutie Effect, the school will increase its perception and resources. They already have a higher academic ranking than DePaul, a higher endowment and more undergrad students on campus.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 25, 2018, 11:19:03 AM
They will now. They have instantly become a national sensation, and become the city's top men's basketball team. With all the new revenue the school will now get, including the new admissions due to the Flutie Effect, the school will increase its perception and resources. They already have a higher academic ranking than DePaul, a higher endowment and more undergrad students on campus.
Yeah don't oversell that. Read what chick wrote about what happened to Butler.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 25, 2018, 11:19:03 AM
They will now. They have instantly become a national sensation, and become the city's top men's basketball team. With all the new revenue the school will now get, including the new admissions due to the Flutie Effect, the school will increase its perception and resources. They already have a higher academic ranking than DePaul, a higher endowment and more undergrad students on campus.
Really. Let's take the last completely out of the blue mid major that made the final four. George mason.
2006 they made the final four and averaged 4500 fans a game.
2007 they bumped that to 6800 with excitement around a program just off the final four. They limped to 18-15 5th in the coloni and no postseason.
Since then they've lost fans every year and are now down to 4200.
A similar thing will happen with Loyola. They'll get a big boost and student support before they realize the team was not meant for long term sustained success and they'll fade to obscurity again.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 25, 2018, 11:43:52 AM
Really. Let's take the last completely out of the blue mid major that made the final four. George mason.
2006 they made the final four and averaged 4500 fans a game.
2007 they bumped that to 6800 with excitement around a program just off the final four. They limped to 18-15 5th in the coloni and no postseason.
Since then they've lost fans every year and are now down to 4200.
A similar thing will happen with Loyola. They'll get a big boost and student support before they realize the team was not meant for long term sustained success and they'll fade to obscurity again.
Unless they keep winning, this absolutely will be the case.
Until 2 weeks ago, Chicago basketball fans didn't know Loyola existed. The vast majority ignore Northwestern and DePaul, too. Chicago is by and large a pro sports town, and fans there need a reason to care about college sports. DePaul basketball gave them reason in Ray Meyer's later years.
There is a solid ND football fanbase there. Otherwise ... it's a classic bandwagon situation.
Loyola is the flavor of the month. If they go back to being what they were during almost the entirety of Moser's time there (and the decades before that), they will barely be a blip on the Chicago sports scene.
Yea, I'm a Rogers Park native and as much as I love the Loyola run, it won't be sustained. I mean, their volleyball team was/is so much more popular than their basketball team, even before their two National Championships.
I hope they continue to be successful in the MVC and help make it a two bid league, and hey if they're still as successful 5 years from now you can always give them a call later on.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 25, 2018, 12:02:21 PM
Yea, I'm a Rogers Park native and as much as I love the Loyola run, it won't be sustained. I mean, their volleyball team was/is so much more popular than their basketball team, even before their two National Championships.
I hope they continue to be successful in the MVC and help make it a two bid league, and hey if they're still as successful 5 years from now you can always give them a call later on.
ChiTown: check your PM
I know it isn't gonna happen...but if Loyola replaced DePaul in the BE and Wintrust, why wouldn't they have as good a chance as DePaul (or even better) to succeed?
People say Loyola will return to being just another a mid-major program soon after this season, and they're probably right...but that's because they will remain in the MVC. If they had the opportunity to jump to a major conference, they just might be able to maintain some momentum.
And seriously, do people really think they would be any less successful than DePaul if they had the same BE advantage?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 25, 2018, 12:52:31 PM
I know it isn't gonna happen...but if Loyola replaced DePaul in the BE and Wintrust, why wouldn't they have as good a chance as DePaul (or even better) to succeed?
People say Loyola will return to being just another a mid-major program soon after this season, and they're probably right...but that's because they will remain in the MVC. If they had the opportunity to jump to a major conference, they just might be able to maintain some momentum.
And seriously, do people really think they would be any less successful than DePaul if they had the same BE advantage?
If Loyola were given the wintrust or even able to split it with Depaul and it was within a year or two I could see them being able to nab a class like the three amigos when we went to the Big East. You're right they couldnt be worse than Depaul at least in conference. Essentially this is a crossroads for them, do they try to build off this and turn themselves into a good program or do they go down as the School with the most efficient tournament success in history.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 25, 2018, 11:43:52 AM
Really. Let's take the last completely out of the blue mid major that made the final four. George mason.
2006 they made the final four and averaged 4500 fans a game.
2007 they bumped that to 6800 with excitement around a program just off the final four. They limped to 18-15 5th in the coloni and no postseason.
Since then they've lost fans every year and are now down to 4200.
A similar thing will happen with Loyola. They'll get a big boost and student support before they realize the team was not meant for long term sustained success and they'll fade to obscurity again.
And don't forget that Mason upgraded conferences too and still has been stuck in a solid state of mediocrity ever since.
One year does not define a program. They've been less than mediocre since 1985. They've got on a lucky run. SLU had 3 strong years and went back to being, well, SLU. Let's see if LUC can sustain it for a few years before crowning them the next Butler or Creighton.
LMC?
LUC.
Quote from: tower912 on March 25, 2018, 08:52:16 AM
Rocket, how did the media treat Villanova being a Catholic school? Sister Jean is just a fun story. You are correct about Moser's overall record. Who here would have been championing Moser a month ago, a year ago? Or even if Loyola had missed the shot against Miami. A great story. An awesome story. Everybody loves a Cinderella story. But for anybody to say 'we need a coach like Moser' means they are missing the big picture and his overall record as a head coach and what he had accomplished before this year.
yes, that was unfair, but you know rocket wouldn't be rocket without throwing a little "gas" on the fire. ;D
coulda done without the snark...
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 25, 2018, 01:24:33 PM
And don't forget that Mason upgraded conferences too and still has been stuck in a solid state of mediocrity ever since.
Same could be said for DePaul.
Quote from: warriorchick on March 23, 2018, 06:58:01 AM
When they get to the game with Nova. Maybe.
Why? The whole "you root for other teams in your conference" argument is weak. Not much different than Wisconsin fans saying you should root for other in-State teams.
Besides, I'll never pull for G-Town and certainly didn't cheer for WVU and L-ville when we were conference brethren.
I would trade Loyola for DePaul. I trust Loyola's willingness and ability to make an investment in men's basketball more than I trust DePauls.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 25, 2018, 02:01:54 PM
Why? The whole "you root for other teams in your conference" argument is weak. Not much different than Wisconsin fans saying you should root for other in-State teams.
Besides, I'll never pull for G-Town and certainly didn't cheer for WVU and L-ville when we were conference brethren.
Except we get paid more the better Nova does
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 25, 2018, 02:01:54 PM
Why? The whole "you root for other teams in your conference" argument is weak. Not much different than Wisconsin fans saying you should root for other in-State teams.
Besides, I'll never pull for G-Town and certainly didn't cheer for WVU and L-ville when we were conference brethren.
Why is it weak?
Love Villanova. Want to play like Villanova. Appreciate the $ Villanova bestows on the rest of the Big East, as well as the love Jay spreads.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 25, 2018, 11:19:03 AM
They will now. They have instantly become a national sensation, and become the city's top men's basketball team. With all the new revenue the school will now get, including the new admissions due to the Flutie Effect, the school will increase its perception and resources. They already have a higher academic ranking than DePaul, a higher endowment and more undergrad students on campus.
. Wouldn't it be funny if the Loyola success had a negative effect on our recruiting in Illinois?
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 25, 2018, 02:07:39 PM
. Wouldn't it be funny if the Loyola success had a negative effect on our recruiting in Illinois?
Under wojo we've gotten one player from Illinois by way of Nebraska. Under buzz we got 2 both of whom transferred out. not sure the Illinois pipeline is as open as we pretend.
Loyola is different than George Mason, VCU, Wichita State and even Butler because Loyola has already won a national championship. What if they win it all this year? To simply dismiss Loyola out-of-hand because it is a "lucky" run is shortsighted. Every single mid-major listed above that went on a long run ended up moving up conferences.
The city of Chicago owns Wintrust. What's to stop them from giving Loyola a handful of dates to play at Wintrust due to this run?
It feels like LUC winning four games has caused people to confuse them with Gonzaga.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 25, 2018, 02:10:06 PM
Loyola is different than George Mason, VCU, Wichita State and even Butler because Loyola has already won a national championship. What if they win it all this year? To simply dismiss Loyola out-of-hand because it is a "lucky" run is shortsighted. Every single mid-major listed above that went on a long run ended up moving up conferences.
The city of Chicago owns Wintrust. What's to stop them from giving Loyola a handful of dates to play at Wintrust due to this run?
A) beyond George mason each of those had real school support before they made the final fours. It's not surprising that the schools that cared before are still doing well and the school that didn't is not.
B) The city does not own the Wintrust. The Metropolitan Pier and Exposition Authority own the Wintrust.
The other factor to consider. for Val Ackerman and the other BE Presidents, is the long-term concern about DePaul's ability to create and maintain a successful men's basketball program by keeping its current administration in place and refusing to make a change. In the Sun-Times, there was a full page ad on removing the athletic director, and representatives from the school dismissed the message as being from "only a few unhappy fans". The frustration at DePaul has trickled onto the local radio, social media, and, by several accounts, donations. It is truly bizarre that the school continues to defend its men's basketball program and preaches patience, when the team has not made a tournament in over 15 years, and has finished in last place in the Big East 6 of the past 8 years.
But, when you proclaim that your program is proud of its student-athletes and that its mission is not to be "Junior NBA", I guess you get what you get.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 25, 2018, 02:10:06 PM
Loyola is different than George Mason, VCU, Wichita State and even Butler because Loyola has already won a national championship. What if they win it all this year? To simply dismiss Loyola out-of-hand because it is a "lucky" run is shortsighted. Every single mid-major listed above that went on a long run ended up moving up conferences.
The city of Chicago owns Wintrust. What's to stop them from giving Loyola a handful of dates to play at Wintrust due to this run?
My guess is that the contract with DePaul prevents this.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 25, 2018, 02:15:53 PM
A) beyond George mason each of those had real school support before they made the final fours. It's not surprising that the schools that cared before are still doing well and the school that didn't is not.
B) The city does not own the Wintrust. The Metropolitan Pier and Exposition Authority own the Wintrust.
My mistake.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 25, 2018, 02:10:06 PM
Loyola is different than George Mason, VCU, Wichita State and even Butler because Loyola has already won a national championship. What if they win it all this year? To simply dismiss Loyola out-of-hand because it is a "lucky" run is shortsighted. Every single mid-major listed above that went on a long run ended up moving up conferences.
The city of Chicago owns Wintrust. What's to stop them from giving Loyola a handful of dates to play at Wintrust due to this run?
This is what I keep thinking. We can say one thing today but if they go and win it all, everything changes for their future. Could they become another Gonzaga? Why not?
If they win, it is the greatest run for an underdog since the 1980 US Olympic hockey team. It will live forever. But they will still be in the MVC . Where are George Mason and VCU this year?
Quote from: yetipro on March 25, 2018, 02:53:43 PM
This is what I keep thinking. We can say one thing today but if they go and win it all, everything changes for their future. Could they become another Gonzaga? Why not?
Could they? Sure. Will they? Doubtful. First what Gonzaga has done is extremely difficult. Second LUC looks more like a experienced team hitting on all cylinders at just the right time more than a future blue blood type. Let's see if they can hold onto the coach and prove that he can reload in the future.
Quote from: tower912 on March 25, 2018, 02:58:18 PM
If they win, it is the greatest run for an underdog since the 1980 US Olympic hockey team. It will live forever. But they will still be in the MVC . Where are George Mason and VCU this year?
Gonzaga plays in the West Coast Conference, which is a worse conference than the MVC. Your point?
Incidentally, the MVC was also rated higher than the A-10.
Just saying, the blueprint is certainly there for a team to rise and dominate a mid-major conference. The blueprint is even there in the MVC itself, left behind by Wichita St.
I have no idea what will happen to them in the long run, but I don't think we should just assume they are George Mason based solely on the fact that they came out of nowhere.
Quote from: tower912 on March 25, 2018, 02:58:18 PM
If they win, it is the greatest run for an underdog since the 1980 US Olympic hockey team. It will live forever. But they will still be in the MVC . Where are George Mason and VCU this year?
It would be huge, but not quite the longest odds ever. It would be tied for sixth longest.
Longest?
2016 Leicester City, 5,000-1
1980 Olympic team, 1,000-1
2013 Auburn football, 1,000-1
2011 St. Louis Cardinals, 999-1
1987 Minnesota Twins, 500-1
1999 St. Louis Rams, 300-1
2018 Loyola Ramblers, 300-1?
Quote from: Pakuni on March 25, 2018, 03:36:26 PM
It would be huge, but not quite the longest odds ever. It would be tied for sixth longest.
Longest?
2016 Leicester City, 5,000-1
1980 Olympic team, 1,000-1
2013 Auburn football, 1,000-1
2011 St. Louis Cardinals, 999-1
1987 Minnesota Twins, 500-1
1999 St. Louis Rams, 300-1
2018 Loyola Ramblers, 300-1?
Leicester City was ridiculous just because they had to do it for an entire 38 game season with 25% of the budget of most other teams.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 25, 2018, 03:36:26 PM
It would be huge, but not quite the longest odds ever. It would be tied for sixth longest.
Longest?
2016 Leicester City, 5,000-1
1980 Olympic team, 1,000-1
2013 Auburn football, 1,000-1
2011 St. Louis Cardinals, 999-1
1987 Minnesota Twins, 500-1
1999 St. Louis Rams, 300-1
2018 Loyola Ramblers, 300-1?
Fair enough.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 25, 2018, 02:09:49 PM
Under wojo we've gotten one player from Illinois by way of Nebraska. Under buzz we got 2 both of whom transferred out. not sure the Illinois pipeline is as open as we pretend.
maybe that's part of our problem. And if recruiting Chicago is no longer a priority, what was all the hullabaloo about getting some negative press with our BB program a few years back?
Quote from: ATWizJr on March 25, 2018, 04:29:21 PM
maybe that's part of our problem. And if recruiting Chicago is no longer a priority, what was all the hullabaloo about getting some negative press with our BB program a few years back?
Regardless of your recruiting location/pipeline, I'm pretty sure no administration/University wants negative national headlines.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 25, 2018, 01:02:40 PM
If Loyola were given the wintrust or even able to split it with Depaul and it was within a year or two I could see them being able to nab a class like the three amigos when we went to the Big East. You're right they couldnt be worse than Depaul at least in conference. Essentially this is a crossroads for them, do they try to build off this and turn themselves into a good program or do they go down as the School with the most efficient tournament success in history.
And what happens if they are in the BE and go 6-12 next year and 4-14 the year after? They become no different than Depaul.
If they were in the BE this year, they would have probably finished around the same place as Georgetown, maybe winning 1-2 more games than them. They would have been out of the tournament and no one would be talking about them.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 25, 2018, 02:10:06 PM
Loyola is different than George Mason, VCU, Wichita State and even Butler because Loyola has already won a national championship.
Kennedy was president then. The price of the average house was $12,650. The Dow was just above 700.
That championship is as material now as Wisconsin's in 1941 and CCNY's in 1950 are.
Loyola's program hasn't even kinda mattered for at least 3 decades.
Davidson (to name one of many) has a MUCH more viable basketball program. And it's a better school, too.
This is a cool, little story. A year from now, it will be all but forgotten. 25 years from now, the only way we'll remember it is that ESPN will do a 400 for 400 on it.
MU82
I disagree on remembering the Rambler run. This is something that many folks are going to remember and Sr. Jean is part ofthe reason. How the program looks in five years is anyone's guess,but odds of them being relevant down the road is not real high, IMO.
Quote from: MU82 on March 25, 2018, 05:45:38 PM
Kennedy was president then. The price of the average house was $12,650. The Dow was just above 700.
That championship is as material now as Wisconsin's in 1941 and CCNY's in 1950 are.
Loyola's program hasn't even kinda mattered for at least 3 decades.
Davidson (to name one of many) has a MUCH more viable basketball program. And it's a better school, too.
This is a cool, little story. A year from now, it will be all but forgotten. 25 years from now, the only way we'll remember it is that ESPN will do a 400 for 400 on it.
That Loyola championship has unfortunately been lost in the Hollywood story of Texas Western, but it was likely far more significant in term of racial integration. Sadly, it is now termed as not "material".
A piece of information many of you may not have known. The year Loyola won it all they played Marquette twice. The first game they beat the Warriors by 19 in Milwaukee. The second game was played at Chicago Stadium and MU took Loyola to overtime before losing 92-90.
Quote from: forgetful on March 25, 2018, 05:43:51 PM
And what happens if they are in the BE and go 6-12 next year and 4-14 the year after? They become no different than Depaul.
If they were in the BE this year, they would have probably finished around the same place as Georgetown, maybe winning 1-2 more games than them. They would have been out of the tournament and no one would be talking about them.
Not sure I would agree with that. They are so fundamentally strong, I think they would finish around 10-8 and maybe even better. They certainly would have finished ahead of us.
Quote from: MU82 on March 25, 2018, 05:45:38 PM
Kennedy was president then. The price of the average house was $12,650. The Dow was just above 700.
That championship is as material now as Wisconsin's in 1941 and CCNY's in 1950 are.
Loyola's program hasn't even kinda mattered for at least 3 decades.
Davidson (to name one of many) has a MUCH more viable basketball program. And it's a better school, too.
This is a cool, little story. A year from now, it will be all but forgotten. 25 years from now, the only way we'll remember it is that ESPN will do a 400 for 400 on it.
..or MU's in 77?
Quote from: 4th and State on March 25, 2018, 07:51:05 PM
Not sure I would agree with that. They are so fundamentally strong, I think they would finish around 10-8 and maybe even better. They certainly would have finished ahead of us.
You are looking at a tournament run and extrapolating that back to the rest of the season.
The same team lost to UWM and Missouri State (and Bradley). Their best case scenario would have been a tie with us and Butler. That would put their best case scenario of tying an MU team in a season many think was bad enough to fire our coach.
People get excited about a cinderella team, and forget why they are a cinderella.
Also won at #5 Florida without one of their best players.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 25, 2018, 07:29:31 PM
That Loyola championship has unfortunately been lost in the Hollywood story of Texas Western, but it was likely far more significant in term of racial integration. Sadly, it is now termed as not "material".
Context, please.
It was not material relative to any measurement of the program's current or future status.
GoldenWarrior said "Loyola is different than George Mason, VCU, Wichita State and even Butler because Loyola has already won a national championship."
I don't think that "proves" Loyola is superior to those programs - just as our '77 championship doesn't prove we're a better program now than, say, Virginia or Gonzaga.
That's all I was saying.
Obviously, I know the historical importance of the '63 Ramblers (and Texas Western in '66).
Quote from: forgetful on March 25, 2018, 08:33:30 PM
You are looking at a tournament run and extrapolating that back to the rest of the season.
The same team lost to UWM and Missouri State (and Bradley). Their best case scenario would have been a tie with us and Butler. That would put their best case scenario of tying an MU team in a season many think was bad enough to fire our coach.
People get excited about a cinderella team, and forget why they are a cinderella.
There are very few teams that don't have a bad loss or two over the course of the season. They went 17-1 to end the season not including their NCAA tournament run. I don't care who you are that's pretty damn good.
Quote from: MU82 on March 25, 2018, 10:13:33 PM
Context, please.
It was not material relative to any measurement of the program's current or future status.
GoldenWarrior said "Loyola is different than George Mason, VCU, Wichita State and even Butler because Loyola has already won a national championship."
I don't think that "proves" Loyola is superior to those programs - just as our '77 championship doesn't prove we're a better program now than, say, Virginia or Gonzaga.
That's all I was saying.
Obviously, I know the historical importance of the '63 Ramblers (and Texas Western in '66).
Well, championships are maybe worth more than a trophy. As you say, historically material. I say forgotten. The Mississippi State team's stand was and is incredible...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1973795
Quote from: yetipro on March 25, 2018, 02:53:43 PM
This is what I keep thinking. We can say one thing today but if they go and win it all, everything changes for their future. Could they become another Gonzaga? Why not?
People lose touch with how long it took Gonzaga to be Gonzaga and last year was the first time in 19 years they actually went to a Final Four.
In those 19 years, an Elite 8 to start it then the next one came 16 years later. It's hard. A lot of burnouts along the way as a 1, 2 or 3 seed not making it out of the first weekend. Last year they finally got to the Final Four.
Gonzaga has the advantage of a coaching staff that has stayed largely the same for a long time. Mark Few has been there almost 30 years, a head coach for 19. They have an on campus arena built in the mid 2000's that seats 6000. They only have to fight two other legit D1 programs in the state (Seattle U is way down the list).
Loyola had gone to zero tournaments since George H.W. Bush was president, their last one was during the Reagan administration until this year. There is a reason for that. Maybe the good Jesuits in Chicago decide to go all in after this run and many of the alumni most certainly will push them to do so, but even commitment doesn't mean success. LUC plays in a 4,900 seat arena opened in the mid 1990's that screams mid major to me. Any of you others that have been there, feel free to disagree.
Loyola is the poster child for the concept known as "recency bias."
The program has been irrelevant for decades. It takes a lot of imagination to even speculate that it possibly could become the next Gonzaga.
That's a great article Dr B. Enjoyed the read
Pretty sure the Gentile Arena opened much more recently than the 1990s. Or at least there was a major renovation in the 2000s, but maybe I'm wrong.
I know I played a couple of volleyball matches at Loyola and went to camps there but maybe it was in a different gym.
Quote from: MU82 on March 25, 2018, 10:58:55 PM
Loyola is the poster child for the concept known as "recency bias."
The program has been irrelevant for decades. It takes a lot of imagination to even speculate that it possibly could become the next Gonzaga.
This. Not to mention their roster just isn't set up for back to back success. In the absolute best case scenario Loyola doesn't see a recruiting uptick till next year which, unless it's some unreal recruits, puts them about three years from another legit team. So I don't see how they possibly get staying power.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 25, 2018, 11:10:01 PM
Pretty sure the Gentile Center opened much more recently than the 1990s. Or at least there was a major renovation in the 2000s, but maybe I'm wrong.
Did a big upgrade in 2017
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 25, 2018, 11:10:01 PM
Pretty sure the Gentile Arena opened much more recently than the 1990s. Or at least there was a major renovation in the 2000s, but maybe I'm wrong.
I know I played a couple of volleyball matches at Loyola and went to camps there but maybe it was in a different gym.
Opened in 1996. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_J._Gentile_Arena
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 25, 2018, 11:14:28 PM
Opened in 1996. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_J._Gentile_Arena
Time flies, eh?
On the subject of youth, this is what Pat Forde noticed about the Big Dance:
"Of the 20 starters on the Final Four teams, just three are freshmen: forward Isaiah Livers of Michigan and centers Cameron Krutwig of Loyola and Omari Spellman of Villanova. Livers is a nominal starter who actually plays backup minutes. Spellman was redshirted last year for academic reasons. If any of the three go pro after playing one season in college, it would come as a considerable surprise.
The rest of the starters, by class: five true seniors; four fourth-year juniors; four true juniors; two third-year sophomores; and two true sophomores."
https://www.yahoo.com/sports/incredible-final-four-field-missing-031830782.html
I'll let you all take from that what you will.
For what it's worth, next year's starting lineup could easily be...
A true senior (Heldt)
Two true juniors (Markus and Sam)
Two fourth-year juniors (Sacar and Ed)
And the following year could then be...
Two true seniors (Markus and Sam)
Two fifth-year seniors (Sacar and Ed)
A true junior (Theo or Jamal) or a "third"-year sophomore (Joey)
Quote from: WarriorDad on March 25, 2018, 10:55:38 PM
People lose touch with how long it took Gonzaga to be Gonzaga and last year was the first time in 19 years they actually went to a Final Four.
In those 19 years, an Elite 8 to start it then the next one came 16 years later. It's hard. A lot of burnouts along the way as a 1, 2 or 3 seed not making it out of the first weekend. Last year they finally got to the Final Four.
Gonzaga has the advantage of a coaching staff that has stayed largely the same for a long time. Mark Few has been there almost 30 years, a head coach for 19. They have an on campus arena built in the mid 2000's that seats 6000. They only have to fight two other legit D1 programs in the state (Seattle U is way down the list).
Loyola had gone to zero tournaments since George H.W. Bush was president, their last one was during the Reagan administration until this year. There is a reason for that. Maybe the good Jesuits in Chicago decide to go all in after this run and many of the alumni most certainly will push them to do so, but even commitment doesn't mean success. LUC plays in a 4,900 seat arena opened in the mid 1990's that screams mid major to me. Any of you others that have been there, feel free to disagree.
Apologies for losing touch there, big guy. Don't know what got into me!
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29542355_10155196679331496_263287802983964743_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=bab72a547e1c6a1ac58091159f7dcd64&oe=5B29244A)
Quote from: SaveOD238 on March 26, 2018, 07:45:40 AM
For what it's worth, next year's starting lineup could easily be...
A true senior (Heldt)
Two true juniors (Markus and Sam)
Two fourth-year juniors (Sacar and Ed)
And the following year could then be...
Two true seniors (Markus and Sam)
Two fifth-year seniors (Sacar and Ed)
A true junior (Theo or Jamal) or a "third"-year sophomore (Joey)
Yep, all the old teams in the Big East ahead of us this year will be young, and we'll be old. It's gonna be great! No reason we can't challenge for the title the next two years.
Ellenson
With all due respect, where does talent play into your thought process? Villanova may be an "old" team, but they are an extremely talented team. In addition, they have won on big stage their entire careers. I guess I am missing how MU jumps to that level simply on being an older team. Next year, the SR. class is made up of one role player, at best, and a walk on. The JR. class has two very good players and hopefully and established big man transfer. The Soph class is made up of three star players that did not distinguish themselves as prime time players this season.
While I definitely get that an experienced team is a positive, I am missing on the role high level talent or coaching fits into the equation. Again, I hope I am wrong, but I am not buying into that the experience is simply enough to put MU in national spotlight. The BE will we be weaker next season and that will help in the regular season, but might be more difficult in March.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 09:18:24 AM
Ellenson
With all due respect, where does talent play into your thought process? Villanova may be an "old" team, but they are an extremely talented team. In addition, they have won on big stage their entire careers. I guess I am missing how MU jumps to that level simply on being an older team. Next year, the SR. class is made up of one role player, at best, and a walk on. The JR. class has two very good players and hopefully and established big man transfer. The Soph class is made up of three star players that did not distinguish themselves as prime time players this season.
While I definitely get that an experienced team is a positive, I am missing on the role high level talent or coaching fits into the equation. Again, I hope I am wrong, but I am not buying into that the experience is simply enough to put MU in national spotlight. The BE will we be weaker next season and that will help in the regular season, but might be more difficult in March.
You forgot about Sacar on your list. As far as where we go in March i think this year should've taught all of us that it's a crap shoot. I'd personally take X's year with zero March success without a second thought
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 09:18:24 AM
Ellenson
With all due respect, where does talent play into your thought process? Villanova may be an "old" team, but they are an extremely talented team. In addition, they have won on big stage their entire careers. I guess I am missing how MU jumps to that level simply on being an older team. Next year, the SR. class is made up of one role player, at best, and a walk on. The JR. class has two very good players and hopefully and established big man transfer. The Soph class is made up of three star players that did not distinguish themselves as prime time players this season.
While I definitely get that an experienced team is a positive, I am missing on the role high level talent or coaching fits into the equation. Again, I hope I am wrong, but I am not buying into that the experience is simply enough to put MU in national spotlight. The BE will we be weaker next season and that will help in the regular season, but might be more difficult in March.
Think this is pretty spot on Goose, we should be better and teams around us should take a step back, but I still don't see enough pieces for a second weekend team yet. I think we should still be safely in, but not many teams go from quarterfinals of NIT to S16 or better. I think not going one and done will be extremely important for building for the 19-20 season, because as good as it is to win NIT games for experience, it doesn't come close to winning a NCAA game in terms of value of experience. Learning to win in March is important, but learning to win big games is even more important.
Boxer
I did forget about Sacar. Sacar is a question mark to me. I love what he did this season and he was most improved guy, IMO. Not sure if his offensive was strictly based off of style of play or not. He definitely leaned to finish at the hoop and hope that holds true again next season.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 09:18:24 AM
Ellenson
With all due respect, where does talent play into your thought process? Villanova may be an "old" team, but they are an extremely talented team. In addition, they have won on big stage their entire careers. I guess I am missing how MU jumps to that level simply on being an older team. Next year, the SR. class is made up of one role player, at best, and a walk on. The JR. class has two very good players and hopefully and established big man transfer. The Soph class is made up of three star players that did not distinguish themselves as prime time players this season.
While I definitely get that an experienced team is a positive, I am missing on the role high level talent or coaching fits into the equation. Again, I hope I am wrong, but I am not buying into that the experience is simply enough to put MU in national spotlight. The BE will we be weaker next season and that will help in the regular season, but might be more difficult in March.
Goose:
I don't want to put words into EFR's mouth, but I don't think he was saying that Marquette jumps to Villanova's level simply by being an older team.
That will be one factor - possibly a big one - that helps us achieve more next season.
Other factors: in addition to getting older, some of our players (especially the freshmen, but others too) should get better; Elliott and Sam should be healthier; Morrow and Joey join the fold; the defense is bound to improve (can't get worse, right? ha!); Wojo also will be more experienced; the rest of our league looks like it will not be quite as strong; etc.
As a freshman, Bridges averaged 6 points and 3 rebounds for Nova. As a sophomore, 9.8 and 4.6. When you watched him those first two seasons, did you say: "Wow, that kid definitely will be an All-American candidate in 2017-18?"
When you watched Jae Crowder as a junior, did you say, "Player of the Year next season, no doubt"? When you watched Jimmy Butler as a sophomore, did you say, "This guy will be an NBA All-Star"?
I am NOT saying that any of our players are Bridges, Jae or Jimmy. What I am saying is that good, hard-working players
do improve.
I know you think we lack "talent." I think we have a decent amount of talent - not as much as some teams, but a fair amount, including two of the very best shooters in the entire country - and more is on the way. You are free to disagree.
And yes, we will be more experienced all around next season. It will not be the only reason we take the next step, but it will be
a reason, perhaps even a big reason.
Add all of that up, and it's why many (most?) of us believe next season is important for Wojo and the program. Barring catastrophic injuries or unexpected defections, there really will be no excuses. Nor should there be.
I happen to think there won't be any need for excuses because we're gonna have a kick-ass season! Can't wait!!
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 09:45:15 AM
Boxer
I did forget about Sacar. Sacar is a question mark to me. I love what he did this season and he was most improved guy, IMO. Not sure if his offensive was strictly based off of style of play or not. He definitely leaned to finish at the hoop and hope that holds true again next season.
Sacar will play meaningful minutes next year just because he physically can D up. His offense was evolving all year and expect it to be better next year with a summer
to work on his outside shot. I can see Sacar, Elliott, Cain, Morrow, and John at the end of games. Lots of length. Sam will never be a good defender, not sure if he
will even be healthy to play next year. I could see a redshirt year for him, we will see.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 09:18:24 AM
Ellenson
With all due respect, where does talent play into your thought process? Villanova may be an "old" team, but they are an extremely talented team. In addition, they have won on big stage their entire careers. I guess I am missing how MU jumps to that level simply on being an older team. Next year, the SR. class is made up of one role player, at best, and a walk on. The JR. class has two very good players and hopefully and established big man transfer. The Soph class is made up of three star players that did not distinguish themselves as prime time players this season.
While I definitely get that an experienced team is a positive, I am missing on the role high level talent or coaching fits into the equation. Again, I hope I am wrong, but I am not buying into that the experience is simply enough to put MU in national spotlight. The BE will we be weaker next season and that will help in the regular season, but might be more difficult in March.
Yes, they are extremely talented and old. They lose 2 extremely talented old players, First team AA types. That's the point. We gain 2 6'8" immediate impact talents, one of which is old.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 26, 2018, 10:04:53 AM
Yes, they are extremely talented and old. They lose 2 extremely talented old players, First team AA types. That's the point. We gain 2 6'8" immediate impact talents, one of which is old.
Spellman is the difference. Can go inside and out, Matt is the 10th best center in the Big East. Theo might overtake him, if not. Weak in the middle. Quiverly and DeVincencio will be really good. Right now MU can not guard him. Put Spellman on MU and they would be a Top 5 team.
MU82
I do not disagree MU has some talent. I just do not think it national scene talent at this point. I believe EFR noted we should be competing for BE titles the next two years and that caught my eye. That might be wishful, or very very wishful, thinking for next season.
I think people are misunderstanding what the term "compete for conference titles" should mean. The Big East had two great teams and a very large middle of the pack. If PC doesn't lose to DePaul at home, they put some separation above the middle of the pack teams. Does that mean that they competed for the title? Absolutely not. USC only finished 2 games out of the PAC 12 title, but anyone who watched the conference knew that it was a one horse race. I expect us to finish above the middle of the pack teams, but just finishing 2nd or 3rd does not mean that you are truly competitive in the title race. I don't think we'll be anywhere near Nova next year, but that's not the worst thing, because I think they'll be one of the best teams in the country again.
DJOver
My definition of competing for BE championship is having legit chance of winning it. So, if we are not competing for BC crown next year, when does "that" happen?
Quote from: DCHoopster on March 26, 2018, 10:15:29 AM
Spellman is the difference. Can go inside and out, Matt is the 10th best center in the Big East. Theo might overtake him, if not. Weak in the middle. Quiverly and DeVincencio will be really good. Right now MU can not guard him. Put Spellman on MU and they would be a Top 5 team.
Where does Ed Morrow factor into your analysis?
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 26, 2018, 10:36:53 AM
Where does Ed Morrow factor into your analysis?
I do not know where Ed fits yet, Pascall can go outside as well as inside. Ed did not have an outside shot a year ago at Nebraska, did not make one 3. So in saying that,
not sure. Both can rebound. right now I like Pascall just because he is playing and only saw Ed in the scrimmage in November. I would hope he has worked on his
weaknesses. Plus I am not sure how Wojo uses him. The offense will have to change a tad next year. I do not know if Ed can beat anybody off the dribble, either.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 10:36:34 AM
DJOver
My definition of competing for BE championship is having legit chance of winning it. So, if we are not competing for BC crown next year, when does "that" happen?
Goose, I don't really understand your question.
I think that we have a good chance of finishing in the top 3 of the Big East next year. However, I think that Nova will be one of the best teams in the country (top 5 ranking most of the season). I think we could crack the top 25 and hang there or in the also receiving votes category most of the year. I don't think we will have a legitimate shot at winning the Big East until we prove that we can play some defense. I think we will be a very good offensive team again next year, but putting up 90 doesn't help you if you give up 95.
Edit: saw your edit and I think I answered your question. Didn't name a specific year, but it
could be as early as next year, not sure it will be though. Depends on when Wojo learns to teach D.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 09:45:15 AM
Boxer
I did forget about Sacar. Sacar is a question mark to me. I love what he did this season and he was most improved guy, IMO. Not sure if his offensive was strictly based off of style of play or not. He definitely leaned to finish at the hoop and hope that holds true again next season.
So now that your analysis includes a senior role player, 2 fourth year juniors, two great junior players to studs, depending on whom you ask, and a class of 3 decent role playing sophomores does that start to show some experience?
I expect we'll be solidly in next year. I think the difference between us having a legit shot at winning the BE will be these factors
A) Grad PG
B) Sam's return from injury, does he have setbacks?
C) Joey's return from injury, does he take a step back
D) Bailey's comeback to basketball, does he take a step back.
Let's say all of the above happen to our favor I suspect we are actually competitive with Nova. Let's say none of the above happen to our favor. I expect we're still good but nowhere near what could've been.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 10:36:34 AM
DJOver
My definition of competing for BE championship is having legit chance of winning it. So, if we are not competing for BC crown next year, when does "that" happen?
Who knows. Let's see how the process plays out.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 26, 2018, 10:46:12 AM
Who knows. Let's see how the process plays out.
Agreed, still need a point guard, otherwise MU is in the 9-9, 10-8 range next year. A guard that can really D it up will change the outlook next year.
Quote from: DCHoopster on March 26, 2018, 10:49:13 AM
Agreed, still need a point guard, otherwise MU is in the 9-9, 10-8 range next year. A guard that can really D it up will change the outlook next year.
Suspect MU will be in the 9-9, 10-8 range with or without adding a grad transfer PG. However, IF we don't add a PG, and Markus were to get injured, we'd be in major trouble.
I understand Elliott was playing without a left thumb, yet his handle and lateral quickness didn't strike me as being PG material. Combo guard. High ceiling.
DCHoopster
9-9, 10-8? I hope you have not been one of the "next year" guys. If so, we are in trouble if that is your "next year" take.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 10:36:34 AM
DJOver
My definition of competing for BE championship is having legit chance of winning it. So, if we are not competing for BC crown next year, when does "that" happen?
+1
I am looking forward to competing for conference titles as well. I don't view "competing for a conference title" as being in a 3rd place tie between 4 teams logjammed at 10-8. My thought is 12-16 wins is where you are in that "competing for a title" range. 12 will likely come up short but you were good enough to be in the mix. 16 should get it done most years. Anywhere in that range is my expectation when you are at that point.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 11:12:56 AM
DCHoopster
9-9, 10-8? I hope you have not been one of the "next year" guys. If so, we are in trouble if that is your "next year" take.
One new player can change that to 12-6, until that happens you can not be excited about Markus being your point guard? Turnover city, and I am not a total believer
that Elliott can do that either. Do you expect all of a sudden the players can play D? Yes, Morrow should be a big addition there. But Sam, not sure. Joey, not sure.
So still lots of questions.
DCHoopster
Well said. That is a big part of my being skeptical for next year. I think it will take a James Naismith coaching performance by Wojo to see the improvement many believe is on the horizon. Unfortunately, I believe GE has better chance of being first team all BE PG over Wojo becoming Naismith.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 11:22:08 AM
DCHoopster
Well said. That is a big part of my being skeptical for next year. I think it will take a James Naismith coaching performance by Wojo to see the improvement many believe is on the horizon. Unfortunately, I believe GE has better chance of being first team all BE PG over Wojo becoming Naismith.
Wojo has a better career record than Naismith who wasn't much as a coach.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 11:22:08 AM
DCHoopster
Well said. That is a big part of my being skeptical for next year. I think it will take a James Naismith coaching performance by Wojo to see the improvement many believe is on the horizon. Unfortunately, I believe GE has better chance of being first team all BE PG over Wojo becoming Naismith.
I disagree. I still think it is way too early to put a ceiling on Wojo. I think the next 2 years will decide what it will be (at least at MU), but to say a coach's full potential can be predicted after just 4 years of coaching is silly.
I have many MANY concerns and doubts about Wojo, but I can't claim to believe I've seen enough to decide he can't turn into something great and even legendary.
When we went down the road of hiring someone without any head-coaching experience, we were asking for this uncertainty. His potential has a very high volatility range still.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 26, 2018, 11:17:30 AM
+1
I am looking forward to competing for conference titles as well. I don't view "competing for a conference title" as being in a 3rd place tie between 4 teams logjammed at 10-8. My thought is 12-16 wins is where you are in that "competing for a title" range. 12 will likely come up short but you were good enough to be in the mix. 16 should get it done most years. Anywhere in that range is my expectation when you are at that point.
I think 12 puts you in the mathematically competing category, but not realistically. The only reason that 14 got it done in 2012-13 was because of a logjam at the top. In order to win a conference outright, you have to be a truly elite team. The winner of the ACC got a 1 seed. B10 had a down year and the winner still got a 2. B12 winner got a 1. Beast got 2 one seeds. SEC didn't have one great team but had 2-4 good teams, the highest of which got a 3 seed. PAC 12 was terrible and the winner got a 4.
I don't see us going from a solid NIT team to a top 4 seed (minimum, in the Beast you would likely get a 1 seed if you win the regular season) no matter who Wojo brings in with the 2 open scholly's. Depending on player development and how other teams in the conference do, the earliest I think we could win outright is the 19-20 season, and a lot of things would have to break right for that to happen.
Aughnanure
My comment was more based off the level of talent vs. Wojo as a coach. He very well might become a very good game coach down the line. I just think to be a legit team next year, you will have to coach up the returning guys quite a bit.
Quote from: DCHoopster on March 26, 2018, 11:18:02 AM
One new player can change that to 12-6, until that happens you can not be excited about Markus being your point guard? Turnover city, and I am not a total believer
that Elliott can do that either. Do you expect all of a sudden the players can play D? Yes, Morrow should be a big addition there. But Sam, not sure. Joey, not sure.
So still lots of questions.
Morrow is not a difference maker on defense, or at least he wasn't at Nebraska.
The difference on defense should come from the departure of Rowdy. He was to defense what Derrick Wilson was to offense... He made the other four guys worse at it. His departure alone should improve our defense by 75ish spots on kenpom. (While also hurting our offense)
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 26, 2018, 11:34:57 AM
Morrow is not a difference maker on defense, or at least he wasn't at Nebraska.
The difference on defense should come from the departure of Rowdy. He was to defense what Derrick Wilson was to offense... He made the other four guys worse at it. His departure alone should improve our defense by 75ish spots on kenpom. (While also hurting our offense)
I would agree that Rowsey could not play D, nor can Howard, for that matter, Sam or Matt will never be great defensive players, to slow. The make-up of the team was
not on the defensive end. Cain, Elliott and Morrow should be better on the D end next year. One player that might help is Ike if he is healthy, he had some hops. Raw
offensively, but could help on the D end. John has to learn how to use his feet to move on D and not foul. Lots of question marks. Need to bring in a defensive stopper.
Unless Villanova implodes, I see no way that we "compete for a conference title" next season. #2 in conference is possible, I would say Creighton and X will be who we will be competing with for that spot.
In two years we could possibly be competing for a conference title. By then Bridges, Brunson, Booth, and Paschall will all be gone. Spellman and Quinerley may have gone pro. I have no reason to doubt that Wright will recruit well and have them reloaded but you never know. We theoretically should only lose Heldt (and maybe a grad transfer) between now and then. We should be trending up for the next two years.
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 11:34:31 AM
Aughnanure
My comment was more based off the level of talent vs. Wojo as a coach. He very well might become a very good game coach down the line. I just think to be a legit team next year, you will have to coach up the returning guys quite a bit.
I get that. But it also seems a bit exaggerated...or do you think if we do improve by these expectations, the media/talking heads will be putting him on the Coach of the Year shortlists?
The expectations I'm seeing generally are 1) Not on the bubble on Selection Sunday and 2) a 6 seed or better. I'd be surprised at Coach of the Year talk if he just meets or is around the minimum for that.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 26, 2018, 11:34:57 AM
Morrow is not a difference maker on defense, or at least he wasn't at Nebraska.
The difference on defense should come from the departure of Rowdy. He was to defense what Derrick Wilson was to offense... He made the other four guys worse at it. His departure alone should improve our defense by 75ish spots on kenpom. (While also hurting our offense)
So, you project us to be about 100 on D next year, in Year 5 of the rebuild? What do you estimate our offense will fall to with the departure of Rowsey?
Interesting to note, an elite offense has been of more value to predicting NCAA tourney success than defense. For us to miss tourney this year as elite offensively as we were was a major disappointment.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/offense-may-be-more-important-than-defense-in-ncaa-tournament/
Certainly this year's Final Four teams illustrate as much. Nova 1, Kansas 5, Loyola 60 (due to tempo but 5 in eFG%), Michigan 31 in O, but 4 in D.
Quote from: Its DJOver on March 26, 2018, 10:34:01 AM
I think people are misunderstanding what the term "compete for conference titles" should mean. The Big East had two great teams and a very large middle of the pack. If PC doesn't lose to DePaul at home, they put some separation above the middle of the pack teams. Does that mean that they competed for the title? Absolutely not. USC only finished 2 games out of the PAC 12 title, but anyone who watched the conference knew that it was a one horse race. I expect us to finish above the middle of the pack teams, but just finishing 2nd or 3rd does not mean that you are truly competitive in the title race. I don't think we'll be anywhere near Nova next year, but that's not the worst thing, because I think they'll be one of the best teams in the country again.
I expect these teams to take a step back:
Villanova (won't fall far, won't be the virtually unbeatable juggernaut they were this year)
Xavier (from 15 to ~9/10 wins)
Seton Hall (lose everyone, will be with DePaul at bottom)
Providence
Butler
Wild cards:
St. John's (does Ponds stay? If yes, middle of pack, if no, back to bottom)
Creighton (does Khyri stay? If yes, middle of pack, if no, lower tier)
Improve:
Georgetown (nice bigs, everyone of consequence returns with a year in Ewing's system, prime for a grad transfer PG)
Tread water:
DePaul
With who we add and everyone we get back, I expect us to improve in a vacuum. In the context of everyone else, I expect 9-9 to go to more like 12-6, 2nd place BEast
Villanova: 1-1 (0-2 last year)
Xavier: 1-1 (0-2)
Seton Hall: 2-0 (2-0)
Providence: 2-0 (1-1)
Butler: 1-1 (0-2)
St. John's: 1-1 (1-1)
Creighton: 1-1 (2-0)
Georgetown: 1-1 (2-0)
DePaul: 2-0 (1-1)
That's without a grad transfer PG
Then in '19/'20 we make the Big Leap to clear Big East favorites and national contenders as long as Joey stays
Quote from: Goose on March 26, 2018, 10:25:47 AM
MU82
I do not disagree MU has some talent. I just do not think it national scene talent at this point. I believe EFR noted we should be competing for BE titles the next two years and that caught my eye. That might be wishful, or very very wishful, thinking for next season.
Fair enough. For some reason, I glossed right over EFR's "challenge for a title" line.
The way I define "challenge for a title," I would be very surprised if we could do so next season.
A top 3-4 finish in the league (say 11-13 wins) and solidly in the tournament is more like what I'm thinking for next season, and that would be a very nice sign of progress. Once you do that, all it takes is a couple good games and you can have a nice NCAA run; that is the case more now than ever.
If that step is taken and then all key components come back, I would agree with EFR that we could seriously challenge for the BE title in 2019-20, get a top 3-4 NCAA seed and make a nice tourney run if things bounce right.
If all of that happens, in 6 years Wojo will have followed his first unwinnable year with 20-win season, NCAA, NIT, NCAA, NCAA. I think that would be a pretty nice foundation to build on.
Lots and lots and lots of "ifs" there, I realize.
And even if all that happens, there will
still be some who say it's a "fact" that Wojo isn't a good coach because "they just know it's true." That's life in the fan world.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 26, 2018, 11:44:33 AM
So, you project us to be about 100 on D next year, in Year 5 of the rebuild? What do you estimate our offense will fall to with the departure of Rowsey?
Interesting to note, an elite offense has been of more value to predicting NCAA tourney success than defense. For us to miss tourney this year as elite offensively as we were was a major disappointment.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/offense-may-be-more-important-than-defense-in-ncaa-tournament/
Certainly this year's Final Four teams illustrate as much. Nova 1, Kansas 5, Loyola 60 (due to tempo but 5 in eFG%), Michigan 31 in O, but 4 in D.
I think Nova just kinda proved that you need to be good both offensively and defensively. I see no P6 team that we beat while shooting 16% from 3.
As good as they are offensively, you can't expect to shoot as good as they did opening weekend for 6 games. At some point you're going to have to grind one out defensively.
Auggie
I said not sweating out Selection Sunday we a realistic expectation for the next year crowd, not competing for BE crown. If competing is the expectation of that crowd, I think they are kidding themselves.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 26, 2018, 11:44:33 AM
So, you project us to be about 100 on D next year, in Year 5 of the rebuild? What do you estimate our offense will fall to with the departure of Rowsey?
Interesting to note, an elite offense has been of more value to predicting NCAA tourney success than defense. For us to miss tourney this year as elite offensively as we were was a major disappointment.
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/offense-may-be-more-important-than-defense-in-ncaa-tournament/
Certainly this year's Final Four teams illustrate as much. Nova 1, Kansas 5, Loyola 60 (due to tempo but 5 in eFG%), Michigan 31 in O, but 4 in D.
Actually I'm expecting us to be top 75ish in D next season. Think offense will be top 25ish. Both could change with a grad transfer.
You keep bringing up this "disappointed that we lost despite elite offense" angle. I could easily say "excited that we win despite our pispoor defense." I don't really give a rip how we win as long as we win (ethically of course).
We finished right around where KenPom said we would. Wished it was higher, but it met expectations
Quote from: DCHoopster on March 26, 2018, 11:42:14 AM
I would agree that Rowsey could not play D, nor can Howard, for that matter, Sam or Matt will never be great defensive players, to slow. The make-up of the team was
not on the defensive end. Cain, Elliott and Morrow should be better on the D end next year. One player that might help is Ike if he is healthy, he had some hops. Raw
offensively, but could help on the D end. John has to learn how to use his feet to move on D and not foul. Lots of question marks. Need to bring in a defensive stopper.
Agree some, disagree some.
Rowsey is one of the worst defensive guards I've seen in many years. He often didn't even try on defense. And when he did try, he was too short and slow to make a difference. Markus at least tries. He will draw a charge, tip away a pass. Definitely not even mediocre on D but he (and everybody else) will look better on D because Rowsey's not out there. I say all that and I really, really liked watching Rowsey play, I understand his offensive value and I fully expect us to miss him next season.
Before Sam got really banged up late in the season, I actually was impressed with his defense much of the time. He's a max-effort guy, he fights for position, he fights for rebounds, he's not as slow as some make him out to be, he's long and he cares about defense.
Theo improved markedly on defense, got much better at challenging shots without fouling.
Sam and whichever center was out there at any given time were put in horrible position constantly because our perimeter defenders were terrible at containing the dribble and also could not challenge a pass - especially when both midgets were on the floor. Even guys who have potential to be good perimeter defenders - Cain, Elliott, Sacar - were too inexperienced and just not good enough yet. I like to think they will improve.
Another year for those three and Theo, the addition of Morrow, good health for Sam and not having a second midget on the court should help the defense substantially IMHO.
Quote from: MU82 on March 26, 2018, 11:57:34 AM
Agree some, disagree some.
Rowsey is one of the worst defensive guards I've seen in many years. He often didn't even try on defense. And when he did try, he was too short and slow to make a difference. Markus at least tries. He will draw a charge, tip away a pass. Definitely not even mediocre on D but he (and everybody else) will look better on D because Rowsey's not out there. I say all that and I really, really liked watching Rowsey play, I understand his offensive value and I fully expect us to miss him next season.
Before Sam got really banged up late in the season, I actually was impressed with his defense much of the time. He's a max-effort guy, he fights for position, he fights for rebounds, he's not as slow as some make him out to be, he's long and he cares about defense.
Theo improved markedly on defense, got much better at challenging shots without fouling.
Sam and whichever center was out there at any given time were put in horrible position constantly because our perimeter defenders were terrible at containing the dribble and also could not challenge a pass - especially when both midgets were on the floor. Even guys who have potential to be good perimeter defenders - Cain, Elliott, Sacar - were too inexperienced and just not good enough yet. I like to think they will improve.
Another year for those three and Theo, the addition of Morrow, good health for Sam and not having a second midget on the court should help the defense substantially IMHO.
I would agree that Rowsey was a weak defender, but by far the most fun player to watch in years. MU was fun to watch period. Next year, defensively has to be better, can not be worse. Elliott and Cain have to get stronger, not sure they can gain the weight needed but just being a little older will help. Concerned a little bit
with the injuries moving forward, the Hauser boys need to get healthy. Sam has minimal hops, has to get stronger.
Quote from: MU82 on March 26, 2018, 11:57:34 AM
Agree some, disagree some.
Rowsey is one of the worst defensive guards I've seen in many years. He often didn't even try on defense. And when he did try, he was too short and slow to make a difference. Markus at least tries. He will draw a charge, tip away a pass. Definitely not even mediocre on D but he (and everybody else) will look better on D because Rowsey's not out there. I say all that and I really, really liked watching Rowsey play, I understand his offensive value and I fully expect us to miss him next season.
Before Sam got really banged up late in the season, I actually was impressed with his defense much of the time. He's a max-effort guy, he fights for position, he fights for rebounds, he's not as slow as some make him out to be, he's long and he cares about defense.
Theo improved markedly on defense, got much better at challenging shots without fouling.
Sam and whichever center was out there at any given time were put in horrible position constantly because our perimeter defenders were terrible at containing the dribble and also could not challenge a pass - especially when both midgets were on the floor. Even guys who have potential to be good perimeter defenders - Cain, Elliott, Sacar - were too inexperienced and just not good enough yet. I like to think they will improve.
Another year for those three and Theo, the addition of Morrow, good health for Sam and not having a second midget on the court should help the defense substantially IMHO.
Agree completely, but especially with the bolded part
Quote from: MU82 on March 26, 2018, 11:45:49 AM
Fair enough. For some reason, I glossed right over EFR's "challenge for a title" line.
The way I define "challenge for a title," I would be very surprised if we could do so next season.
A top 3-4 finish in the league (say 11-13 wins) and solidly in the tournament is more like what I'm thinking for next season, and that would be a very nice sign of progress. Once you do that, all it takes is a couple good games and you can have a nice NCAA run; that is the case more now than ever.
If that step is taken and then all key components come back, I would agree with EFR that we could seriously challenge for the BE title in 2019-20, get a top 3-4 NCAA seed and make a nice tourney run if things bounce right.
If all of that happens, in 6 years Wojo will have followed his first unwinnable year with 20-win season, NCAA, NIT, NCAA, NCAA. I think that would be a pretty nice foundation to build on.
Lots and lots and lots of "ifs" there, I realize.
And even if all that happens, there will still be some who say it's a "fact" that Wojo isn't a good coach because "they just know it's true." That's life in the fan world.
Painting the picture in the 6-year light above is a good exercise. It does cast a different perspective on the body of work.
It stands a decent chance of happening, that we do make the NCAA the next two years. Granted, I think we'll be a bubble team next year.
My take on Wojo is his ceiling will ultimately be first weekend NCAA tourney, unless we start to be able to land McDonald's All-Americans/5-star talent.
Now, I could live with a program that goes to NCAA say 80% of seasons, while making a run to Sweet 16 seasons roughly 40%.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 26, 2018, 01:03:57 PM
Painting the picture in the 6-year light above is a good exercise. It does cast a different perspective on the body of work.
It stands a decent chance of happening, that we do make the NCAA the next two years. Granted, I think we'll be a bubble team next year.
My take on Wojo is his ceiling will ultimately be first weekend NCAA tourney, unless we start to be able to land McDonald's All-Americans/5-star talent.
Now, I could live with a program that goes to NCAA say 80% of seasons, while making a run to Sweet 16 seasons roughly 40%.
In the 5 years of the new Big East, only Villanova & Xavier meet this threshold. I could live with it too, I guess.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 26, 2018, 01:15:22 PM
In the 5 years of the new Big East, only Villanova & Xavier meet this threshold. I could live with it too, I guess.
Aim high. I'm benchmarking off of where we were as a program prior to Wojo's arrival, in the "old" Big East, which featured even better teams, and our track record in those 9-years was 8 NCAA's, 3 Sweet 16s.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 26, 2018, 11:43:50 AM
Unless Villanova implodes, I see no way that we "compete for a conference title" next season. #2 in conference is possible, I would say Creighton and X will be who we will be competing with for that spot.
In two years we could possibly be competing for a conference title. By then Bridges, Brunson, Booth, and Paschall will all be gone. Spellman and Quinerley may have gone pro. I have no reason to doubt that Wright will recruit well and have them reloaded but you never know. We theoretically should only lose Heldt (and maybe a grad transfer) between now and then. We should be trending up for the next two years.
I agree, I'm happy with a solid comfortable NCAA seed. Then anything can happen even 6 more wins.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 26, 2018, 01:03:57 PM
Painting the picture in the 6-year light above is a good exercise. It does cast a different perspective on the body of work.
It stands a decent chance of happening, that we do make the NCAA the next two years. Granted, I think we'll be a bubble team next year.
My take on Wojo is his ceiling will ultimately be first weekend NCAA tourney, unless we start to be able to land McDonald's All-Americans/5-star talent.
Now, I could live with a program that goes to NCAA say 80% of seasons, while making a run to Sweet 16 seasons roughly 40%.
Before the tournament, what was your take on Moser's ceiling? Weber's ceiling? Hamilton's ceiling? Musselman's ceiling?
What do you think the average Tennessee fan's take on KO's ceiling was when they hired him away from us? I like to think they believed it was super-high - successful assistant at AZ, nice work at Marquette including a surprise win over Kentucky to reach the S16. How did that work out for Tennessee's "ceiling forecasters"?
We came darn close to having lower ceilings than Holy Cross in 2003 and Davidson in 2013. Thankfully, we made big plays at the right time and got a few lucky bounces, too. Hopefully, Wojo will benefit from the same the next couple of years. According to sources, the tourney is a crapshoot.
I'm not trying to be snarky or antagonistic, Ners. You are allowed to have your "feelings" about the height of Wojo's ceiling, as does everybody else. Time will tell if your "feelings" about Wojo's ceiling are superior to those of anybody else.
On Bruce Weber...
Bruce is my age (61), and we played driveway Bball together as kids in NW Milw..Bruce's cousin Brent is my lifelong best friend and family gatherings usually included hoops till we dropped. Bruce is a Milw lifer. As a kid he wasnt the most athletic of us but he was absolutely driven and very competitive. Still...a nice fun kid to hang with.
I think I recall Bruce went to Marshall High (class of 74), where he played basketball and baseball. At UWM I think he only made it in baseball. Bruce has lost his milw accent...but the MU gig would still be a return home to him.
Post Wojo..supposin'....Is a good power 5 BBgig at K-State better than the MU job? Pros to each position, and if KState wants him my guess is he'd stay there
Was it true that Bruce Weber was the head coach that reached out with interest when we were going through a coaching search after Buzz left? I seem to recall someone saying someone knew a well-known head coach reached out with interest (and many were scared that it was, in fact, Brey lol).
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 26, 2018, 04:15:20 PM
Was it true that Bruce Weber was the head coach that reached out with interest when we were going through a coaching search after Buzz left? I seem to recall someone saying someone knew a well-known head coach reached out with interest (and many were scared that it was, in fact, Brey lol).
I thought it was after TC left. Or maybe it was both.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 26, 2018, 04:15:20 PM
Was it true that Bruce Weber was the head coach that reached out with interest when we were going through a coaching search after Buzz left? I seem to recall someone saying someone knew a well-known head coach reached out with interest (and many were scared that it was, in fact, Brey lol).
When Buzz left, I believe the big name reaching out was Ben Howland. His name was floated through the media from "an unnamed source" for virtually every opening. All the speculation I heard was that Howland himself was the source.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 26, 2018, 04:15:20 PM
Was it true that Bruce Weber was the head coach that reached out with interest when we were going through a coaching search after Buzz left? I seem to recall someone saying someone knew a well-known head coach reached out with interest (and many were scared that it was, in fact, Brey lol).
Weber did reach out as he is a Milwaukee native and that specifically drew him to the job.
Howland also reached out, but he was reaching out for every open job that year.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 26, 2018, 05:16:11 PM
Weber did reach out as he is a Milwaukee native and that specifically drew him to the job.
Howland also reached out, but he was reaching out for every open job that year.
This sounds right.
Weber is a hell of an Xs and Os coach and very good at player development. The big concern with him is recruiting. His highest rated recruit at K State has been Malek Harris ironically enough at #96 per 247 composite. His second highest rated was Jevon Thomas (#143) who transferred to Seton Hall and choked a kid during a game of pickup basketball. Sneed (#144) is the 3rd highest. He's done a great job with his 2 and 3 stars but it seems like he's not the kind of coach that top players want to play for.
Howland reached out. He and Lovell chatted on the phone. Howland wanted the MU job pretty badly.
There was also interest in Weber, though I have no idea who initiated the contact. There was a K-State fan who came on to Scoop and said "you guys can have Weber...please please please take him off of our hands."
There were rumors that Brey was in town:
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=43386.msg605716#msg605716
(Re-reading that thread is great. PRN's comment has me dying over here!)
I also seem to remember Jamie Dixon being rumored to be in the mix. IIRC, we all laughed it off "why would he leave Pitt?!?!" Well, not so funny in hindsight. Maybe he saw the writing on the wall?
Quote from: warriorchick on March 26, 2018, 08:01:29 AM
(https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/29542355_10155196679331496_263287802983964743_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=bab72a547e1c6a1ac58091159f7dcd64&oe=5B29244A)
He da Man(atee)!!
Quote from: ZenyattasTapitColt on March 27, 2018, 02:41:56 AM
He da Man(atee)!!
That manatee Geico commercial always cracks me up!