1. When Sam went out with 2 fouls in the first half everything changed.
2. Those announcers sure liked to talk about Marquette's lack of size and experience. Doug must check my posts.
3. Theo looked great for a while, then he looked like a freshman. Then he looked great again. He has the best lateral quickness of the bigs.
4. Run MH, AR, and Sam off the 3 point line and dare anything else to beat you.
5. Confidence is ebbing without the easy 3's. Guys are attempting extra passes to try to compensate. Turnovers ramp up.
6. Where was the bat when Marquette needed it.
7. Providence decided to attack the paint and dare Marquette to stop them. And then just defend the 3.
CRAP. POSTED TOO SOON. WHAT A MORON.
8. Cooley just kept having his guys attack the defender on foul trouble. Good coaching. Not enough options.
9. This is the hill on which I will make my stand. This is a case of not enough players, not enough size, not enough experience. It is almost to be expected, when looking at it without the homer glasses. If it still looks like this year from now, I will start to doubt.
We just don't deserve a tourney bid right now. No way around it.
#4 #4 #4 #4 #4 #4 #4
That is the essense of the problem.
Getting as little as Marquette got from the big 3 and as much from the rest of the team is actually something to build on.
Quote from: tower912 on February 03, 2018, 03:35:15 PM
Getting as little as Marquette got from the big 3 and as much from the rest of the team is actually something to build on.
Exactly.
Quote from: tower912 on February 03, 2018, 03:18:44 PM
1. When Sam went out with 2 fouls in the first half everything changed.
2. Those announcers sure liked to talk about Marquette's lack of size and experience. Doug must check my posts.
3. Theo looked great for a while, then he looked like a freshman. Then he looked great again. He has the best lateral quickness of the bigs.
4. Run MH, AR, and Sam off the 3 point line and dare anything else to beat you.
5. Confidence is ebbing without the easy 3's. Guys are attempting extra passes to try to compensate. Turnovers ramp up.
6. Where was the bat when Marquette needed it.
7. Providence decided to attack the paint and dare Marquette to stop them. And then just defend the 3.
CRAP. POSTED TOO SOON. WHAT A MORON.
8. Cooley just kept having his guys attack the defender on foul trouble. Good coaching. Not enough options.
9. This is the hill on which I will make my stand. This is a case of not enough players, not enough size, not enough experience. It is almost to be expected, when looking at it without the homer glasses. If it still looks like this year from now, I will start to doubt.
# 9 all day long.
Not even gonna make the NIT lmfao. Can't even be mad they just suck.
I officially turned the corner in the 2nd half today. Time has come to ask the question. Can they get a better coach?
Still waiting for solid evidence that Wojo knows how to coach. That small lineup he stuck with cost us the game
10. Fire wojo :P
1) Tired of losing.
2) Tired of losing at home.
3) Tired of excuses.
4) Tired of "everyone has adjusted to the big three" but having no adjustments of our own.
5) Tired of "next year will be better"
6) Tired of "at least we have a squeaky clean program". We could have that for a fifth of the cost of what we out in.
I don't see how this team wins 5 more games without given the coaching creativity we've seen in these past four. Heck, I'm not sure this team even gets past .500 on the season. Hope I'm wrong, and I know we were in a similarly dark place last year. But at least then we had a win against a #1 on our resume.
Too many fouls again. Sam goes out with MU up 7, six minutes later, has to put Sam back in with PU up 7.
Every game someone gets in trouble, today two guys.
Too many floaters missed by Rowsey and Markus.
Anim missed at least four layups, you can have all the energy you want, but have to make layups.
PU got layups, plenty and they were fouled a boatload of times. Just abused again down, with exception of John. Morrow will help, but hey that's next year. That small lineup with Theo sitting for a long time didn't help.
Run them off to shoot threes, believe 4 for 16 today. Not working.
Team can't win at home and is in disarray right now. Recipe for disaster.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 03, 2018, 03:55:01 PM
Still waiting for solid evidence that Wojo knows how to coach. That small lineup he stuck with cost us the game
+1,000,000
Rowsey with 4 fouls and you purposely put him in a position where he has to guard a big in the low post one on one. What was he thinking? That timeout with 1 minute to go was also a killer. Lets Providence set the D and eliminates our last one in case we need it.
MU out of timeouts, with possession in the front court, was terrible today.
That spot around the 12 minute mark of the second half of:
-Hauser/Froling WTF play
-Rowsey 4th foul
-Howard hero 3 that had zero chance
-Friar layup
-MU timeout
-Howard turnover out of the timeout
Bad, bad, bad.
Quote from: Eye on February 03, 2018, 03:53:50 PM
I officially turned the corner in the 2nd half today. Time has come to ask the question. Can they get a better coach?
Next season will be the key for me. If its more of the same then we have a problem.
Quote from: MUDish on February 03, 2018, 04:00:08 PM
-Howard hero 3 that had zero chance
-
Howard has got to learn to share the ball. Look for cutters or jump shooters on his drive. His 3 pt % is down this year because he takes a lot of unnecessary bad threes. He did not play well tonight.
Quote from: tower912 on February 03, 2018, 03:35:15 PM
Getting as little as Marquette got from the big 3 and as much from the rest of the team is actually something to build on.
Theo John, other than that brain cramp on Howard's shot, was brilliant today.
Well, for all the nits that argued semantics as to whether the last two games were "must win," let's see how you see in selection Sunday.
I think the torch has been pretty well passed at the 5.
The scouting report is definitely out, as mentioned in #4. I bet Mullin has read it.
I hope anyone who really thought Markus could handle the point next year has been thoroughly disabused of that notion.
Frosh looked great at times. There were a lot of Frosh mistakes. I guess that what Freshmen are.
Honestly, 6-12 in league looks most likely. That's annoying 'cuz I can't get to NYC for a Wed. game come BET time.
Play for next year, Woj, because if you don't turn it around then, I, unlike Tower, won't just begin to doubt, I will really become convinced that you are not up to the task.
I'll answer my own question 79. Long view, they realistically probably can't get a better coach for next season. And I understand the administration's view is pretty different than mine, so the odds of it happening are in the low single digits. But I think they need to start keeping an eye on the national landscape this off season. If someone really good becomes available for whatever reason, time to consider a change.
Sam, Markus, Rowsey:
12/30 with 9 turnovers.
Quote from: Eye on February 03, 2018, 04:09:03 PM
I'll answer my own question 79. Long view, they realistically probably can't get a better coach for next season. And I understand the administration's view is pretty different than mine, so the odds of it happening are in the low single digits. But I think they need to start keeping an eye on the national landscape this off season. If someone really good becomes available for whatever reason, time to consider a change.
No chance MU gets rid of him this year. Zero.
I'd have to give you a realistic specific example, and one is not immediately coming to mind.
Just had this thought as a comparable. Not sure if it's a great example, but here goes. The Cubs didn't go into the 2014 to 2015 offseason planning on getting rid of Renteria I don't believe. Joe Maddon become available. They changed managers. If something like happened to happen in college basketball late this March, I think it would be unwise for MU to not consider making a move. I fully understand there's an absolute bare minimum 95 percent chance Wojo will be MU's coach next season.
I feel like the midgets are drinking too much kool aid. Forget they have a team to use.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 03:57:43 PM
1) Tired of losing.
2) Tired of losing at home.
3) Tired of excuses.
4) Tired of "everyone has adjusted to the big three" but having no adjustments of our own.
5) Tired of "next year will be better"
6) Tired of "at least we have a squeaky clean program". We could have that for a fifth of the cost of what we out in.
I don't see how this team wins 5 more games without given the coaching creativity we've seen in these past four. Heck, I'm not sure this team even gets past .500 on the season. Hope I'm wrong, and I know we were in a similarly dark place last year. But at least then we had a win against a #1 on our resume.
All of this +1m. You know, right before last year's win against Nova at home, I was thinking Wojo had 13 months left at MU. That Nova win got him an extra season. While it's fun to storm the court, that game probably just cost MU another fruitless season, waiting for Wojo to turn the corner.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 03, 2018, 04:01:57 PM
Next season will be the key for me. If its more of the same then we have a problem.
79W .. you know what'll happen. There'll be 18 different excuses as to why next year doesn't work out. All this talk about 2019 or 20 being special seasons. I just don't see it.
I like Wojo for a bunch of reasons, but I no longer think he can bring Marquette to a competitive level in the Big East.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 03, 2018, 04:14:13 PM
All of this +1m. You know, right before last year's win against Nova at home, I was thinking Wojo had 13 months left at MU. That Nova win got him an extra season. While it's fun to storm the court, that game probably just cost MU another fruitless season, waiting for Wojo to turn the corner.
79W .. you know what'll happen. There'll be 18 different excuses as to why next year doesn't work out. All this talk about 2019 or 20 being special seasons. I just don't see it.
I like Wojo for a bunch of reasons, but I no longer think he can bring Marquette to a competitive level in the Big East.
What did you expect this year?
Not directed at me, but I'll answer that. I expected progress in BE play. It hasn't happened. Barring some strange happenings in the next month, they've regressed.
I also expected better than 0-6 at home against top 60 Ken Pom teams.
Quote from: tower912 on February 03, 2018, 03:18:44 PM
1. When Sam went out with 2 fouls in the first half everything changed.
Both were really dumb fouls. And he complained on both, but both were good calls. He commits too many of those and takes himself out of games.
Quote from: Eye on February 03, 2018, 04:21:30 PM
Not directed at me, but I'll answer that. I expected progress in BE play. It hasn't happened. Barring some strange happenings in the next month, they've regressed.
I expected them to regress from last year. Too young. Too small. Incomplete. I said NIT before the year and am expecting that at best.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 03, 2018, 04:14:13 PM
All of this +1m. You know, right before last year's win against Nova at home, I was thinking Wojo had 13 months left at MU. That Nova win got him an extra season. While it's fun to storm the court, that game probably just cost MU another fruitless season, waiting for Wojo to turn the corner.
79W .. you know what'll happen. There'll be 18 different excuses as to why next year doesn't work out. All this talk about 2019 or 20 being special seasons. I just don't see it.
I like Wojo for a bunch of reasons, but I no longer think he can bring Marquette to a competitive level in the Big East.
This has been my concern all along. Too many people here buy into the Wojo sunk cost fallacy (we can't start the rebuild again...). As soon as one has assessed Wojo's talent as a coach it's time to make the call. It's not about what his ceiling is "once he has his guys", it's about how he coaches with what he has (so maybe that's taking an NIT team and getting it into the NCAA. Maybe that's taking a 13-19 team and turning it to 16-16). And over the past four years, he has done very little with the teams he's had that impress me. In no season have we all thought "Wow, that record really out performed that team". At best it's been "well, that's about how I thought they'd do".
And guess what, most (successful) coaches don't have "all their guys" year in year out anyway. Injuries happen. Transfers happen. If we can't judge Wojo until he has all his guys (which, correct me if I'm wrong, he actually does this year), that goes through the whole season with no injury and no transfer, then we'll be waiting for another 10 years.
Maybe we're going to dig deep and find some resiliency yet this season, but if not I think Eye is right. We have to at least keep our ear to the ground on the coaching carousal. There very well might not be anyone better. But for a University that puts so much riding on its basketball team (let's not kid ourselves, almost ALL of our national exposure is from hoops), the stakes are simply too high not to be strategic.
Gettin' beaten at home on the second go 'round wit da same team ain't a good thin', aina? Gettin' out coached.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 03, 2018, 04:25:56 PM
Gettin' beaten at home on the second go 'round wit da same team ain't a good thin', aina? Gettin' out coached.
"But they had Bullock!"
MU's not getting their money's worth that's for sure
Quote from: JakeBarnes on February 03, 2018, 04:13:57 PM
I feel like the midgets are drinking too much kool aid. Forget they have a team to use.
This is it. I think a D1 team would be better served with these guys as role players. We can't have guys their size as our number one options.
Theo John and Elliott continue to impress. I love those guys.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 04:24:11 PM
This has been my concern all along. Too many people here buy into the Wojo sunk cost fallacy (we can't start the rebuild again...). As soon as one has assessed Wojo's talent as a coach it's time to make the call. It's not about what his ceiling is "once he has his guys", it's about how he coaches with what he has (so maybe that's taking an NIT team and getting it into the NCAA. Maybe that's taking a 13-19 team and turning it to 16-16). And over the past four years, he has done very little with the teams he's had that impress me. In no season have we all thought "Wow, that record really out performed that team". At best it's been "well, that's about how I thought they'd do".
And guess what, most (successful) coaches don't have "all their guys" year in year out anyway. Injuries happen. Transfers happen. If we can't judge Wojo until he has all his guys (which, correct me if I'm wrong, he actually does this year), that goes through the whole season with no injury and no transfer, then we'll be waiting for another 10 years.
Maybe we're going to dig deep and find some resiliency yet this season, but if not I think Eye is right. We have to at least keep our ear to the ground on the coaching carousal. There very well might not be anyone better. But for a University that puts so much riding on its basketball team (let's not kid ourselves, almost ALL of our national exposure is from hoops), the stakes are simply too high not to be strategic.
That's not happening.
Anyway, it's not a sunk cost fallacy. I can see an incomplete, inexperienced team that plays hard. That catches up to them when they get into the BE season. But next year they will have more experience and more talent.
If MU looks like this again next year, I will be worried. I'm not thrilled now but at least I understand the reasons.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:22:57 PM
I expected them to regress from last year. Too young. Too small. Incomplete. I said NIT before the year and am expecting that at best.
I mean this is really the only defense people can muster for Wojo. "I had really low expectations at the start of the season, and those are being met."
But did you also expect, when Wojo was hired, that we'd be expecting NIT in year 4? Was that on his PowerPoint to the BOT?
"Year 4 = NIT"
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 04:29:17 PM
I mean this is really the only defense people can muster for Wojo. "I had really low expectations at the start of the season, and those are being met."
But did you also expect, when Wojo was hired, that we'd be expecting NIT in year 4? Was that on his PowerPoint to the BOT?
"Year 4 = NIT"
No. But I see a brighter future.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:17:24 PM
What did you expect this year?
I looked at the pre-season spreadsheet .. I have MU going to the NIT.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cgtwJ5tQ86XNkkaHyY_BFS-YqsrzzVkq5pp6Mhpk0WU/edit#gid=2129394686
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 03, 2018, 03:59:59 PM
+1,000,000
Rowsey with 4 fouls and you purposely put him in a position where he has to guard a big in the low post one on one. What was he thinking? That timeout with 1 minute to go was also a killer. Lets Providence set the D and eliminates our last one in case we need it.
Rowsey was on a big on several possesions. That is dumb, especially with 4 fouls. Who drew that up?
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:28:53 PM
That's not happening.
Anyway, it's not a sunk cost fallacy. I can see an incomplete, inexperienced team that plays hard. That catches up to them when they get into the BE season. But next year they will have more experience and more talent.
If MU looks like this again next year, I will be worried. I'm not thrilled now but at least I understand the reasons.
The sunk cost isn't about the team, it's about the coach.
I'm not saying that you (or anyone else) thinks he IS performing below expectations. But if/once you think he is then the sunk cost is hanging on for another year to see what he does with another roster (unless you think that roster will somehow make him a better coach OR that some other coach wouldn't be able to recruit the same caliber roster). Frankly, I haven't seen anything that shows me he can get the most out of his players/teams, and, while I think he's recruited relatively well, I don't think it's out of line for what most any coach could do given the resources of our program and the exposure of the Big East.
There is a reason he never got a HC job prior to MU and it is not because he was waiting for the right job. At the time I was OK with the hire after Shaka bolted, but the clock is ticking for this fan.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 04:29:17 PM
I mean this is really the only defense people can muster for Wojo. "I had really low expectations at the start of the season, and those are being met."
But did you also expect, when Wojo was hired, that we'd be expecting NIT in year 4? Was that on his PowerPoint to the BOT?
"Year 4 = NIT"
But wait...we will be really good in 2 years...Wojo needs a new 10 year deal...but he is doing everything the admin wants...except winning.
I want a coach that can take NIT talent and get it into the tourney.
I want a coach that can take one-and-done talent and make the S16.
Buzz (for his other flaws, and FTR I'm glad he's gone) was that caliber of coach. I know there aren't many out there. And the ones that are out there might not want to come to MU. But coaches who get paid what our coach gets paid do that.
If we want a coach that takes NCAA talent and gets it to the NCAA and runs a squeaky clean program, fine. If that's the BOT's call, fine. But we sure as hell could pay a lot less for that program.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 04:33:12 PM
The sunk cost isn't about the team, it's about the coach.
I'm not saying that you (or anyone else) thinks he IS performing below expectations. But if/once you think he is then the sunk cost is hanging on for another year to see what he does with another roster (unless you think that roster will somehow make him a better coach OR that some other coach wouldn't be able to recruit the same caliber roster). Frankly, I haven't seen anything that shows me he can get the most out of his players/teams, and, while I think he's recruited relatively well, I don't think it's out of line for what most any coach could do given the resources of our program and the exposure of the Big East.
I don't think there is much many coaches could do with this roster.
1SE
Right on!! Spend less and be a middle of the road program. Spend big, you better win big.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 04:36:38 PM
I want a coach that can take NIT talent and get it into the tourney.
I want a coach that can take one-and-done talent and make the S16.
Buzz (for his other flaws, and FTR I'm glad he's gone) was that caliber of coach. I know there aren't many out there. And the ones that are out there might not want to come to MU. But coaches who get paid what our coach gets paid do that.
If we want a coach that takes NCAA talent and gets it to the NCAA and runs a squeaky clean program, fine. If that's the BOT's call, fine. But we sure as hell could pay a lot less for that program.
When did Buzz take NIT talent to the tournament? He had multiple players who made the NBA on every single one of his NCAA teams. He had zero players who made the NBA (so far) on his last MU team - the one that didn't make the post season.
Wojo isn't getting fired after this year. But, as I think about who would be a fit if he was fired, I keep thinking about a guy with a year off to reflect, doing tv, probably learning more about himself in a year off, MU ties to him, veteran coach...
I'll show myself out now.
I like Wojo and I think talk of replacing his is borderline moronic but I do think he could become a little bit more of a task master. Guys need to lose minutes when they continue to make the same poor decisions, no matter what their PPG.
By the way, I thought Doug gotlieb was excellent today.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:38:04 PM
I don't think there is much many coaches could do with this roster.
Not many, but I'd say most of the ones who are getting paid top-20 money would get this team into the NCAA.
I don't know if you were watching live or the feed, but the call by team at the end was spot on - the trap on Markus all comes down to coaching. And that wasn't even coming out of a time out. Those are well-coached players executing what the coach has taught them to do in a particular game situation.
Us on the other hand? We have a guy who doesn't make a motion on a set play coming directly out of a timeout before the other four guys stand around for 20 seconds. Yes all players make mistakes. But well-coached players make fewer of them.
Quote from: MUDish on February 03, 2018, 04:42:21 PM
Wojo isn't getting fired after this year. But, as I think about who would be a fit if he was fired, I keep thinking about a guy with a year off to reflect, doing tv, probably learning more about himself in a year off, MU ties to him, veteran coach...
I'll show myself out now.
Can you ban yourself?
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 04:43:07 PM
Not many, but I'd say most of the ones who are getting paid top-20 money would get this team into the NCAA.
I don't know if you were watching live or the feed, but the call by team at the end was spot on - the trap on Markus all comes down to coaching. And that wasn't even coming out of a time out. Those are well-coached players executing what the coach has taught them to do in a particular game situation.
Us on the other hand? We have a guy who doesn't make a motion on a set play coming directly out of a timeout before the other four guys stand around for 20 seconds. Yes all players make mistakes. But well-coached players make fewer of them.
Right. Cooley is a good coach. But he also has an experienced team. His top three mpg players, including the two that trapped Howard, are seniors. Gottlieb mentioned it multiple teams. You win with old teams in college basketball.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:41:06 PM
When did Buzz take NIT talent to the tournament? He had multiple players who made the NBA on every single one of his NCAA teams. He had zero players who made the NBA (so far) on his last MU team - the one that didn't make the post season.
He took first weekend talent and took it deeper on multiple occasions.
And a lot of those players
became NBA talent because of Buzz's player development.
And the other ones he got the most out of. I mean big Chris had 0 knees and only 1 eye and he was still playing high caliber ball in the BE FFS.
And I seem to recall this coach missed the NIT it a 1st round pick (who I think actually fell a bit down draft boards during the season)?
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:41:06 PM
When did Buzz take NIT talent to the tournament? He had multiple players who made the NBA on every single one of his NCAA teams. He had zero players who made the NBA (so far) on his last MU team - the one that didn't make the post season.
I'm far from a fan of Brent. But I think most people think the 2010 making the tourney was a good coaching job and the 2011 team making the Sweet 16 was a good tourney coaching job.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:38:04 PM
I don't think there is much many coaches could do with this roster.
Who put this roster together? Give me a break. Four years into this rebuild we could end up sub .500. Not sure MU fans would have thought we would be in this position 4 years after he was hired.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 04:48:08 PM
And a lot of those players became NBA talent because of Buzz's player development.
LOL. OK.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 03, 2018, 04:50:42 PM
Who put this roster together? Give me a break. Four years into this rebuild we could end up sub .500. Not sure MU fans would have thought we would be in this position 4 years after he was hired.
I never said he wasn't a good coach. He is a very good coach. But I'm tired of the "he took scrappy guys and turned them into something" stuff. He had high quality talent. It was awesome that he uncovered a lot of that talent and deserves a ton of credit that he molded it into a good team. But he didn't simply have "NIT talent."
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 03, 2018, 04:50:42 PM
Who put this roster together? Give me a break. Four years into this rebuild we could end up sub .500. Not sure MU fans would have thought we would be in this position 4 years after he was hired.
They are not going to finish sub-.500, relax. Though if they drop one to DePaul, Georgetown and St. John's then a warm seat may be warranted.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 03, 2018, 04:54:04 PM
They are not going to finish sub-.500, relax. Though if they drop one to DePaul, Georgetown and St. John's then a warm seat may be warranted.
They will lose to Creighton in Omaha and St. John's in NY.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:50:53 PM
LOL. OK.
Seriously? Pretty much every player from that era that made it to the association would have been no where near that conversation coming out of high school (with, ironically, perhaps the exception of Vander). DJO and Buycks? Butler an all star? My memory could be way off, but I don't think these guys were hyped as future NBAers starting their careers (or even when they came into MU).
Book it, folks. Sultan has spoken and SJ and Creighton are both losses.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 03, 2018, 04:54:04 PM
They are not going to finish sub-.500, relax. Though if they drop one to DePaul, Georgetown and St. John's then a warm seat may be warranted.
I said could. And I expect we will lose one of the games you mentioned. Not sure what team you are watching but no game is a given. Just ask Duke today, I am sure they felt just like you do.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 04:56:07 PM
Seriously? Pretty much every player from that era that made it to the association would have been no where near that conversation coming out of high school (with, ironically, perhaps the exception of Vander). DJO and Buycks? Butler an all star? My memory could be way off, but I don't think these guys were hyped as future NBAers starting their careers (or even when they came into MU).
Yeah I think the idea that Buzz turned those guys into NBA talent to be extremely far fetched.
Sultan
Your belief of your ball knowledge is far fetched.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:53:19 PM
I never said he wasn't a good coach. He is a very good coach. But I'm tired of the "he took scrappy guys and turned them into something" stuff. He had high quality talent. It was awesome that he uncovered a lot of that talent and deserves a ton of credit that he molded it into a good team. But he didn't simply have "NIT talent."
But that wasn't my point. My point is taking whatever talent level you have and moving it beyond that. So taking talent that should get to the FF and winning the NC - that's a good coach.
A good coach gets more results out of their team than the talent should suggest.
Wojo hasn't done that, and doesn't look to do that this year.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 03, 2018, 04:42:55 PM
I like Wojo and I think talk of replacing his is borderline moronic but I do think he could become a little bit more of a task master. Guys need to lose minutes when they continue to make the same poor decisions, no matter what their PPG.
By the way, I thought Doug gotlieb was excellent today.
The old saying "love the guy's energy" and " love the guy's attitude" has hit the high road. Heldt rarely saw the floor today and Sacar may do same next year. Sacar hustled, yes, but like even Gottlieb said he's an undersized power forward. He missed numerous layups and had one rebound and three turnovers. Sacar will continue his role until next year when Morrow arrives. Other teams have been just killing us inside.
As far as Howard/Rowsey, no ther options, live or die with them
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 04:58:32 PM
But that wasn't my point.
When did I respond to you?
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:57:14 PM
Yeah I think the idea that Buzz turned those guys into NBA talent to be extremely far fetched.
You pull me something that say "Dwight Buycks, NBA prospect" when he was transferring in and I'll eat my crow.
Quote from: nyg on February 03, 2018, 04:58:40 PM
The old saying "love the guy's energy" and " love the guy's attitude" has hit the high road. Heldt rarely saw the floor today and Sacar may do same next year. Sacar hustled, yes, but like even Gottlieb said he's an undersized power forward. He missed numerous layups and had one rebound and three turnovers. Sacar will continue his role until next year when Morrow arrives. Other teams have been just killing us inside.
As far as Howard/Rowsey, no ther options, live or die with them
I agree with PRN. Sit 'em down when they repeatedly do stupid things. You don't have to sit them forever,, just a few possessions, but make sure they know that stupid or selfish play can't be tolerated.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:41:06 PM
When did Buzz take NIT talent to the tournament? He had multiple players who made the NBA on every single one of his NCAA teams. He had zero players who made the NBA (so far) on his last MU team - the one that didn't make the post season.
Jamil was on the last Buzz team and he made the NBA. He would still be there if the herpes incident hadn't occured.
1SE
Sultan saw it in Dwight. Come on, man.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:41:06 PM
When did Buzz take NIT talent to the tournament? He had multiple players who made the NBA on every single one of his NCAA teams. He had zero players who made the NBA (so far) on his last MU team - the one that didn't make the post season.
The team that started Mo and Cubillan as its backcourt
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 03, 2018, 05:02:54 PM
The team that started Mo and Cubillan as its backcourt
Two seniors.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 03, 2018, 05:02:30 PM
Jamil was on the last Buzz team and he made the NBA. He would still be there if the herpes incident hadn't occured.
That's right. Thanks.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 05:00:55 PM
You pull me something that say "Dwight Buycks, NBA prospect" when he was transferring in and I'll eat my crow.
I think Dwight turned himself into an NBA player. If anything, he completely underperformed at Marquette given what he has accomplished since then.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:59:38 PM
When did I respond to you?
Here.
#bansultan
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Re: Deep Friar thoughts
« Reply #44 on: Today at 04:41:06 PM »
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Quote from: 1SE on Today at 04:36:38 PM
I want a coach that can take NIT talent and get it into the tourney.
I want a coach that can take one-and-done talent and make the S16.
Buzz (for his other flaws, and FTR I'm glad he's gone) was that caliber of coach. I know there aren't many out there. And the ones that are out there might not want to come to MU. But coaches who get paid what our coach gets paid do that.
If we want a coach that takes NCAA talent and gets it to the NCAA and runs a squeaky clean program, fine. If that's the BOT's call, fine. But we sure as hell could pay a lot less for that program.
When did Buzz take NIT talent to the tournament? He had multiple players who made the NBA on every single one of his NCAA teams. He had zero players who made the NBA (so far) on his last MU team - the one that didn't make the post season.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 05:03:37 PM
Two seniors.
And an NIT quality roster. You asked the question and I gave you an accurate answer
Quote from: Goose on February 03, 2018, 04:58:20 PM
Sultan
Your belief of your ball knowledge is far fetched.
And all you do is b*tch and complain. So...
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 03, 2018, 05:06:54 PM
And an NIT quality roster. You asked the question and I gave you an accurate answer
Two seniors, one of which was an actual point guard, with two future first round picks on the roster.
Not NIT talent.
Sultan
Just win and no bitching.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 05:04:54 PM
I think Dwight turned himself into an NBA player. If anything, he completely underperformed at Marquette given what he has accomplished since then.
But now you're trying to have it both ways...
"Buzz only made the NCAAs because he had NBA talent on his rosters"
but then
"Future NBA guys on Buzzes teams underperformed while they were at MU"
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:50:53 PM
LOL. OK.
#banwojo > #bansultan
Your defense of Wojo is about as solid as his defensive plans
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 05:08:14 PM
Two seniors, one of which was an actual point guard, with two future first round picks on the roster.
Not NIT talent.
Ok lol. If your point is Buzz wouldn't coach circles around Wojo I would strongly disagree and all the evidence is on my side of that argument
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 05:09:05 PM
But now you're trying to have it both ways...
"Buzz only made the NCAAs because he had NBA talent on his rosters"
but then
"Future NBA guys on Buzzes teams underperformed while they were at MU"
That's not having both ways. JFB and Jae didn't underperform. Dwight did. I mean, no one thought he would be an NBA player when he left here right?
Nickel
I do not think Buzz would coach circles around Wojo. The type of players he recruited and style of ball would.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 05:03:37 PM
Two seniors.
But two undersized guards with an undersized center in Hayward. Per Pomeroy a much better defense than this team.
Buzz was a much better defensive coach. Prob offense too.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on February 03, 2018, 05:13:00 PM
But two undersized guards with an undersized center in Hayward. Per Pomeroy a much better defense than this team.
Buzz was a much better defensive coach. Prob offense too.
That's not what we are debating, but yeah...
I thought this team was better than they're playing. And that they'd get better over the course of the season, with the addition of Harry Froling and game experience for the freshmen, enough to contend for a second straight NCAA berth.
That's not at all what I'm seeing, at least over the past 4 games. This team looks like one that has just 2 upperclassmen, started 4 sophomores and plays 3 freshmen off the bench.
This game was all the more disappointing after the strong start. MU has to play a lot better the rest of the way to see any postseason.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 04:17:24 PM
What did you expect this year?
Certainly not 7-2 prior to the Butler game.
Quote from: Marcus92 on February 03, 2018, 05:14:37 PM
I thought this team was better than they're playing. And that they'd get better over the course of the season, with the addition of Harry Froling and game experience for the freshmen, enough to contend for a second straight NCAA berth.
That's not at all what I'm seeing, at least over the past 4 games. This team looks like one that has just 2 upperclassmen, started 4 sophomores and plays 3 freshmen off the bench.
This game was all the more disappointing after the strong start. MU has to play a lot better the rest of the way to see any postseason.
This team lives and dies with Sam IMO. When he got himself into foul trouble early (which he does too often), the tide really turned. He is a fantastic player.
Sam is a very, very good system player. He is not a stand alone fantastic player. Big fan of his and hope he gets "real" talent around him. Again, big fan, but far from fantastic player at a high level BE program.
The last 4 games, Marcus has 10 assists (2.5 apg), 14 turnovers (3.5 tpg) and is shooting 10-32 (31.3%) from 3-point range. He's forcing shots and not looking for his teammates. This doesn't all fall on him, of course. But we need him to play smarter.
A good Coach has a system(in this case defense), that fits the talent he has, not a system that sets up the talent he has to fail. I've seen enough of the losing at home under Wojo and the mediocre results. I'm tired of the "young" excuse too. How many games of basketball have all these kids played in their lifetimes?? Between HS, AAU, and now their college careers, they have played plenty..Teams have won with youth before. But hey, there is always next year right?? Year 4, 1 NCAA tourney, make whatever excuses you want(and that's all they are at this point), that is completely unacceptable for a program that spends as much on their program as MU does. What's Wojo, like a combined 5-21 vs. Xavier, Butler and Nova in 4 years?? Pathetic.
Quote from: Goose on February 03, 2018, 05:18:59 PMSam is a very, very good system player. He is not a stand alone fantastic player. Big fan of his and hope he gets "real" talent around him. Again, big fan, but far from fantastic player at a high level BE program.
I saw Sam creating his own offense this afternoon. He backed down his man at least a couple times for fadeaway jumpers, and used ball fakes and jab steps to get open looks or drive. And he might just be the best passer on the team right now (14 assists and just 5 turnovers over the past 4 games).
Sam has improved his game immensely over the past year. I think it's quite possible he'll be one of the best players in the Big East by this point next season.
Marcus
If Sam has studs around him he can be a high level BE player. If he first or second option next year, it will be great games against stiffs and rough games against the elite. Give the guy some studs, he can be very, very good. Keep in mind, we played the sixth place team at home today and he did not steal the show.
Want to say it again, I am a big Sam fan, and his style is not usually my style of preference. He is a very nice player.
1SE, I hate all the things that you do.
Much as I love MU Basketball, I realize that the current team, as currently constructed, has significant shortcomings. Part of that is related to the personnel (and we have had countless references to the two undersized guards) but in year four, we know where to look for that responsibility. What bugs me is seeing teams that don't have our highly-rated recruits playing decent defense. Of course, that might lead to a discussion of whether the recruit ratings are too offense-related, but that's a discussion for another day. At any rate, we have athletes that are talented enough that they could (and should) be able to be taught to play at least adequate defense. Either Wojo can't teach D, or the players can't/won't learn. I don't think Wojo is tolerating this out of choice, I think he realizes that he needs offense as well.
What I hate more than anything (save for the losing) is hearing all the "We'll be better next year" repetition. As a lifelong Bosox fan, I can tell you that that was the mantra in NE for generations.
I DO think we should be better next year. We lose only Rowsey (optimistically), and add Morrow, Joey and Bailey. All the others will benefit from another year of development. Something will need to be done about the point, and I'm assuming that will happen.
All that said, what level of accomplishment next year is acceptable? Having thought it over, I'd say top 4 in the BE. If that happens a bid should be forthcoming. If they stumble through another season, missing the dance, or beating the bubble to absorb another first-round beating, would one not think that Wojo's tenure has played out?
Quote from: muguru on February 03, 2018, 05:26:43 PM
A good Coach has a system(in this case defense), that fits the talent he has, not a system that sets up the talent he has to fail. I've seen enough of the losing at home under Wojo and the mediocre results. I'm tired of the "young" excuse too. How many games of basketball have all these kids played in their lifetimes?? Between HS, AAU, and now their college careers, they have played plenty..Teams have won with youth before. But hey, there is always next year right?? Year 4, 1 NCAA tourney, make whatever excuses you want(and that's all they are at this point), that is completely unacceptable for a program that spends as much on their program as MU does. What's Wojo, like a combined 5-21 vs. Xavier, Butler and Nova in 4 years?? Pathetic.
This has been the heart of my beef. If BOT wants a bottom tier BE program we can get it for a lot less. Put the money elsewhere. You know how many tenure track lines 1,000,000 supports? How many scholarships?
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 04:58:32 PM
But that wasn't my point. My point is taking whatever talent level you have and moving it beyond that. So taking talent that should get to the FF and winning the NC - that's a good coach.
A good coach gets more results out of their team than the talent should suggest.
Wojo hasn't done that, and doesn't look to do that this year.
i don't see how this can be disputed (except it's scoop ::)) This shifting defense of Wojo is also growing tired. He didn't have his guys; he has his guys but they're too young to learn anything; he has his guys but they aren't the guys he needs to play defense the way he wants; or offense; and my favorite---I expect top performance but will continue to excuse this teams' failures because I am so smart that at the beginning of the year, I predicted that they would be better than than only DePaul, Georgetown and St. Johns!
1SE
I started the whole SLU thing six years ago, based off my belief the BOT wanted clean over winning. I am fine with that, spend less!!!
I thought the team would go 7-2 to finish out the season in 3rd place in the league. In order to do that they will have to run the table . We have the talent , they all have to be synchronized to win. Every possession is a battle in the Big East. No room for error now.
I was with you until today. I'm no longer convinced they'll be over .500 in BE play, even with the weaker sched down the stretch. Better shot they go 0-2 vs Creighton than 2-0. NIT bound, and that's assuming they're don't lose to someone they shouldn't in the current bottom 3. If they do, that very well may be out the window, too.
Quote from: connie on February 03, 2018, 05:35:43 PM
i don't see how this can be disputed (except it's scoop ::)) This shifting defense of Wojo is also growing tired. He didn't have his guys; he has his guys but they're too young to learn anything; he has his guys but they aren't the guys he needs to play defense the way he wants; or offense; and my favorite---I expect top performance but will continue to excuse this teams' failures because I am so smart that at the beginning of the year, I predicted that they would be better than than only DePaul, Georgetown and St. Johns!
I don't think people understand what I am saying. What I am saying is that the failures of this team were predictable given the personnel. That's on Wojo. But I think the short-comings of this team will be corrected by the players coming in the door starting next year, and with the players going through the fire now having one more year experience.
Put it this way. I am expecting a top-half BE performance next year and a 5-7 seed. I am expecting a top 3 BE performance the year after, a 3-4 seed, and at least a S16 run the year after.
Sultan—prior to the Butler game you said we could go 7-2. I said no way in hell is this team going 7-2 down the stretch.
Now, after the game today, your posts resonate of what did you expect? Wait til next year......we don't have the horses this year......we are incomplete, etc.
What changed? Our deficiencies that you now speak of today were certainly there prior to the BU and PC game.
Still thinking 7-0?
Quote from: Goose on February 03, 2018, 05:38:00 PM
1SE
I started the whole SLU thing six years ago, based off my belief the BOT wanted clean over winning. I am fine with that, spend less!!!
Yeah, but really only as a rhetorical devise. MU needs it's basketball. It puts it on the map. We just need to win.
Quote from: WE R FINAL FOUR on February 03, 2018, 05:54:15 PM
Sultan—prior to the Butler game you said we could go 7-2. I said no way in hell is this team going 7-2 down the stretch.
Now, after the game today, your posts resonate of what did you expect? Wait til next year......we don't have the horses this year......we are incomplete, etc.
What changed? Our deficiencies that you now speak of today were certainly there prior to the BU and PC game.
Still thinking 7-0?
I said we could go 7-2. We likely will not. What changed? We lost two games.
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 05:44:40 PM
I don't think people understand what I am saying. What I am saying is that the failures of this team were predictable given the personnel. That's on Wojo. But I think the short-comings of this team will be corrected by the players coming in the door starting next year, and with the players going through the fire now having one more year experience.
Put it this way. I am expecting a top-half BE performance next year and a 5-7 seed. I am expecting a top 3 BE performance the year after, a 3-4 seed, and at least a S16 run the year after.
I do understand, I just don't share your faith. You are counting on the new guys to play defense and the current guys to develop. Only we haven't really seen any defense in four years and I don't recall a player in the past four years where I said "Wow did that guy get better over the summer (or during the year)." I do hope you are correct. I just haven't seen much that leads me to believe you will be, and that makes me sad.
Quote from: Herman Cain on February 03, 2018, 05:39:20 PM
I thought the team would go 7-2 to finish out the season in 3rd place in the league. In order to do that they will have to run the table . We have the talent , they all have to be synchronized to win. Every possession is a battle in the Big East. No room for error now.
Enough. We do not have the talent. We have some good players and promising freshmen. The talent is not there to compete for the top third of this conference. Our record reflects it. After every loss you keep harping on the talent. Our record indicates you are incorrect.
Few things:
1. I disagree with the sentiment that Wojo messed up by letting Rowsey foul out. That was the absolute best outcome at that point in the game. Rowsey has been an absolute black hole the last several games; bad offensively, hopeless on defense, and plenty of turnovers. The game started to turn when he finally was taken out (by force of fouling out). IMO, he was more deserving of 10-15 minutes in this game, mostly off the bench to give Markus a breather. Markus & Rowsey on the court at the same time is absolutely devastating to our defense and if it's clear he has no offense to provide, what is the point? Huge mistake by Wojo.
2. We went periods of time with no center on the floor, where Rowsey was defending centers, etc. It was absolutely bizarre. We also saw Wojo force Theo onto the bench for long periods when he was having the game of his life. There had to have been a huge differential of points in our favor when Theo was in the game (just a guess).
I was so frustrated to watch this game, Wojo can say all he wants about "playing the hot hand" but that couldn't have been further from the truth today. He has fallen in love with the idea of having Rowsey & Markus on the court at the same time and is willing to go down with the ship on that decision.
Wow What an awful game stand around and wait for MH to yank a 3, hes tired the whole team lacks spark and theres no movement D has been bad all year and now everyone knows how to defend us no growth with this system next year really sick of hearing that
Quote from: willie warrior on February 03, 2018, 04:32:30 PM
Rowsey was on a big on several possesions. That is dumb, especially with 4 fouls. Who drew that up?
Ed Cooley
Quote from: MUDish on February 03, 2018, 04:00:08 PM
MU out of timeouts, with possession in the front court, was terrible today.
That spot around the 12 minute mark of the second half of:
-Hauser/Froling WTF play
That play was Markus' fault too. He threw the bounce pass WAY in front of Hauser which forced him to be out of control and with a bad angle once he caught up to it.
Just a game where Markus truly sunk the entire team.
Anyone know how long we signed Wojo up for? I thought there was an extension Anne point. Anyone know?
Quote from: #bansultan on February 03, 2018, 05:59:09 PM
I said we could go 7-2. We likely will not. What changed? We lost two games.
Agreed. This team going 7-2 was ridiculous.
Quote from: Marcus92 on February 03, 2018, 05:14:37 PM
And that they'd get better over the course of the season, with the addition of Harry Froling and game experience for the freshmen, enough to contend for a second straight NCAA berth.
The issue I see with Froling is that he is like most of the rest of the team--talented, but only on the offensive end. He does rebound well, but he can't play a lick of defense.
I look forward to seeing the +/- from today's game. Wojo's biggest coaching mistake of the day was sitting Theo too long.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 03, 2018, 06:41:44 PM
That play was Markus' fault too. He threw the bounce pass WAY in front of Hauser which forced him to be out of control and with a bad angle once he caught up to it.
Just a game where Markus truly sunk the entire team.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand how this team was built. For better or worse, Markus had to come through for us to have any chance. Rowsey was not going to make anything happen. Who else do ya got? Cam?
Also, I don't think you can blame the guy for his effort, the team has had low energy and morale for weeks.
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 03, 2018, 06:53:44 PM
The issue I see with Froling is that he is like most of the rest of the team--talented, but only on the offensive end. He does rebound well, but he can't play a lick of defense.
I look forward to seeing the +/- from today's game. Wojo's biggest coaching mistake of the day was sitting Theo too long.
+/- is a worthless star but you're right about sitting Theo too long. I don't know where Heldt gets minutes next season.
Quote from: yetipro on February 03, 2018, 06:54:17 PM
I think you fundamentally misunderstand how this team was built. For better or worse, Markus had to come through for us to have any chance. Rowsey was not going to make anything happen. Who else do ya got? Cam?
Also, I don't think you can blame the guy for his effort, the team has had low energy and morale for weeks.
I am not misunderstanding it at all. I'm not saying Wojo has a better option than Markus, nor faulting his effort. It was his
performance which sunk the team. Extremely lose with the ball, terrible shot selection, failed to find (or look for) the open guy. He was tagged for 4 turnovers in the box score but could easily have had double that (the bounce pass to Sam which ruined the fast break, the ball he lost that Theo picked up for a bucket, a horrible pass that Greg saved with his athleticism, etc., etc.)
I'm not saying Wojo had someone else better to put in or that Markus' was dogging it, he just played really poorly.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 03, 2018, 06:58:05 PM
+/- is a worthless star but you're right about sitting Theo too long. I don't know where Heldt gets minutes next season.
Game to game perhaps, but I think the cumulative +/- that Paint Touches is compiling is a pretty good indicator so far for the season.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 04:29:17 PM
I mean this is really the only defense people can muster for Wojo. "I had really low expectations at the start of the season, and those are being met."
But did you also expect, when Wojo was hired, that we'd be expecting NIT in year 4? Was that on his PowerPoint to the BOT?
"Year 4 = NIT"
Actually yes.
At the time he was hired, we were set to graduate Jajuan Johnson, Deonte Burton, Luke Fischer, and John Dawson between year 3 and year 4. That could have been losing up to 4 starters in an offseason. Most teams who do that regress. Now the names and faces changed, but we still lost 3 starters and a rotation player this offseason. Most teams regress when that happens. So regression from a 10 seed would be bubble team to NIT.
You can check my posts but from the day Wojo was hired my expectations have always been NCAA by year 3, regression year 4, high seed with foundation for years of future success by year 5. He's right on schedule....which means he's been average. He certainly hasn't exceeded expectations but he's met them. I'd give him a C at this point. We'll see how the rest of this year and next season play out.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 03, 2018, 03:59:59 PM
+1,000,000
Rowsey with 4 fouls and you purposely put him in a position where he has to guard a big in the low post one on one. What was he thinking? That timeout with 1 minute to go was also a killer. Lets Providence set the D and eliminates our last one in case we need it.
You aren't the only one who said this but I'll address this.
Rowsey wasn't guarding a big in Providence's lineup. He was guarding Isaiah Jackson who plays the 2 guard for Providence. Providence usually runs a lineup of one PG and four guys between 6"6 and 6"8. Isaiah Jackson is 6"6 and usually plays the 2 guard in those lineups. So if Rowsey wasn't guarding Jackson, he would have to guard either an even bigger guy (Diallo, Lindsey, or Bullock) or he would have to guard Cartwright who is one of the leaders in the Big East in FT rate.
We needed Rowsey's offense. Who exactly did you want him guarding?
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 03, 2018, 06:07:57 PM
Enough. We do not have the talent. We have some good players and promising freshmen. The talent defense is not there to compete for the top third of this conference. Our record reflects it. After every loss you keep harping on the talent. Our record indicates you are incorrect.
FIFY
We have the talent to win big games. We have the 2 leading scorers in the conference, for crying out loud. Our team has so much upside, but there are too many weak spots to truly capitalize on that. We have poor defensive strategy (to put it kindly), and poor defensive effort. We have a coach who is too rigid right now to make the right adjustments mid-game.
We can play 30-35 minutes with anyone in the country. I truly believe that. But we lack the planning and the discipline to get through a 40 minute game against top-tier talent.
Also, I understand people's issues with the small lineup, but Wojo was trying to get offense on the floor when they had none. And I think MU was only -2 with that group on the floor.
The one complaint that is legit is putting Heldt on the floor for as long as he did. But the small line up wasn't the disaster that people are making it out to be.
Quote from: skianth16 on February 03, 2018, 07:36:49 PM
FIFY
We have the talent to win big games. We have the 2 leading scorers in the conference, for crying out loud. Our team has so much upside, but there are too many weak spots to truly capitalize on that.
This makes no sense.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 05:35:21 PM
This has been the heart of my beef. If BOT wants a bottom tier BE program we can get it for a lot less. Put the money elsewhere. You know how many tenure track lines 1,000,000 supports? How many scholarships?
The ROI for the $$$ spent on Marquette Basketball is 7:1 per Scholl. Why would we would put that money elsewhere when this generates more money for elsewehere?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 03, 2018, 07:43:04 PM
The ROI for the $$$ spent on Marquette Basketball is 7:1 per Scholl. Why would we would put that money elsewhere when this generates more money for elsewehere?
We could go 0-fer and still generate more money with basketball than we do elsewhere. Bad argument.
Quote from: skianth16 on February 03, 2018, 07:44:40 PM
We could go 0-fer and still generate more money with basketball than we do elsewhere. Bad argument.
No actually that's the point.
I'll give some actual thoughts on the game.
1. I think this was one of our best defensive performances all season. The guards finally were covering the PnR correctly so the bigs could hedge without going about all the way to midcourt. Thought they played the scouting report pretty well other than losing Lindsey on a few slot threes in the first half.
2. I don't think the offense was a bad as others are making it out to be. When we had our long offensive stall we got a lot of good shots that wouldn't go down. Anim missed a bunch of layups, Markus missed a few open floaters that he usually hits, and the threes just would not fall. I counted one forced three for Rowsey and two forced threes for Markus. The rest I thought were in in the flow of the offense but just didn't fall. Offensive gameplan was good but the execution was not there.
3. Turnovers. Turnovers. Turnovers. 14 isn't that terrible for a game total turnovers but how the turnovers happened were ugly. Really lazy and bad passes.
4. Theo would have been the SOTG if we had won, hands down. To date he's been worse than Matt defensively, worse than Harry offensively, but he was a man among boys today. 5 blocks, six man sized rebounds, and a career high in points. If he can play that way every game, we may salvage the season. Only bad moment was the brain dead basket interference. Wonder if he couldn't hear the whistle.
5. Agree with others who questioned why Matt was in for so long. Love the kid but he offers nothing on offense and we needed offense. There was one play where they passed it into the post and he just stood helplessly looking for someone to pass to. Not even an attempt to back down his shorter defender. I would have run Theo as much as possible and subbed in Harry when he needed a breather.....though I just checked the box score, it says Matt was only in for 5 minutes. Maybe time just seems to crawl when he's in the game.
6. Greg is going to be a stud. Those looking for progress just need to look at him. He's getting better every game. Think he is my favorite player on this team.
7. I love Sacar but I agree with whoever said that his minutes will all go to Morrow next season...which I think will improve our defense and toughness
8. Didn't like the timeout with a minute left. I felt like we had more momentum at the moment and while the timeout didn't kill it, I think it took some of the steam off.
9. Markus finally got some calls this game but I think he deserved even more. Don't know what he needs to do to get more respect.
10. Someone else pointed it out, but that was heads up, veteran play that Providence made on Markus with time running out. Markus got the rebound on the run and time was ticking. He didn't have time to pull back. He would have had to either split the defenders or make an awkward on the go pass at full speed. Trying to split the defenders was his best option and they stopped it without fouling.
11. I didn't notice this but a SaveOD pointed it out to me after the game. One of the refs was garbage and the best example was something he almost did to Providence. When Diallo went down with injury, the Providence bench was yelling trying to let him know that they had an injured player. He turned around and started to give the signal for a technical foul. Another ref had to run over and stop him and point out that Diallo was hurt. Would have been a garbage technical....though we might have won if he did it
11. James Breeding. The guy who went after Buzz in the BET as the back up official. Horrible
Theo and Greg were fantastic. Theo didn't miss, add in six rebounds and five blocks. Wow. Greg strong. Only question is why the Frosh including Jamal didn't get more minutes.
Defense was great. Thanks Theo for the paint protection. Greg and Sacar as well with the on ball pressure. Sit the offense if you need to. Good pre-game adjustments by Wojo.
MU started out 4-4 on treys. Finished 0- 12. MU settled or rushed after half time. In a game of spurts, MU lost the first ten minutes of the 2nd half 19-13. Otherwise, MU won 75% of the game.
I thought MU was bad out of time outs and with rotations as well. Why Theo was taken out for that long stretch in a head stratcher. Situationally, especially the last minutes, MU was just plain poor. Not Wojo's best game.
End of the day, a great Big East game. I thought the boys left it on the court.
There was a play they showed again on tv where theo's mere presence made Cartwright hesitate to drive through to the cup. Can't remember the last time we've seen something like that.
one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the country had ZERO three-pointers in the second half.
Quote from: Tugg Speedman on February 04, 2018, 01:25:47 AM
one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the country had ZERO three-pointers in the second half.
Foul trouble and a defense designed and extended to run every shooter off line. Nobody ever got an open look. Always a (taller) Friar in position to contest the jumper. And like Wojo said in his presser, when the ball stops, the defense loads.
The unforced turnovers by this team is baffling. The positive is that they did not quit like the Butler game. Nice steal by Cartwright and the end of the game. I am glad he is a senior- I will not miss Cartwright "carrying" the ball or pushing off the defenders with his left shoulder with no calls.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on February 03, 2018, 04:06:07 PM
Honestly, 6-12 in league looks most likely. That's annoying 'cuz I can't get to NYC for a Wed. game come BET time.
I'd love to take this bet. In fact I'll give you 7 wins. PM me if interested.
Quote from: Eye on February 03, 2018, 04:21:30 PM
I also expected better than 0-6 at home against top 60 Ken Pom teams.
Seton Hall? Just not counting that game eh? Vermont is so 54.
Impressive stats there bud.
Quote from: yetipro on February 03, 2018, 06:22:36 PM
Few things:
1. I disagree with the sentiment that Wojo messed up by letting Rowsey foul out. That was the absolute best outcome at that point in the game. Rowsey HOWARDhas been an absolute black hole the last several games; bad offensively, hopeless on defense, and plenty of turnovers. The game started to turn when he finally was taken out (by force of fouling out). IMO, he was more deserving of 10-15 minutes in this game, mostly off the bench to give Markus ROWSEYa breather. Markus & Rowsey on the court at the same time is absolutely devastating to our defense and if it's clear he has no offense to provide, what is the point? Huge mistake by Wojo.
2. We went periods of time with no center on the floor, where Rowsey was defending centers, etc. It was absolutely bizarre. We also saw Wojo force Theo onto the bench for long periods when he was having the game of his life. There had to have been a huge differential of points in our favor when Theo was in the game (just a guess).
I was so frustrated to watch this game, Wojo can say all he wants about "playing the hot hand" but that couldn't have been further from the truth today. He has fallen in love with the idea of having Rowsey & Markus on the court at the same time and is willing to go down with the ship on that decision.
Agree with point 2 entirely. Fixed point 1. Markus has been a black hole ever since the 52 point game. 27,18,16,15 shots in the last 4 games with 2, 3, 5 and 4 turnovers respectively.
Markus is a great talent but he HAS to be a little more team oriented. Also needs to go back to his floater instead of trying to get all the way to the rack as he never gets fouls called for him.
We need less of Rowsey and Howard on the floor at the same time. If we do go that route, you have to play those two with Theo, Hauser, and Cain/Elliott - need to max our athleticism/length if we are so undersized with Markus and Rowsey.
Quote from: 1SE on February 03, 2018, 05:56:52 PM
Yeah, but really only as a rhetorical devise. MU needs it's basketball. It puts it on the map. We just need to win.
Couldn't agree more with this statement! 1SE has touched on this a number of times and I think it bears mentioning again that having a consistently successful men's basketball program is absolutely essential to the long term health of MU. When the team succeeds, alumni donations increase, applications increase and come from a much more geographically diverse footprint, and MU's national profile is enhanced tremendously as a result. When we're not doing well the opposite occurs. It's not an exaggeration to say that our players carry the weight of the university on their shoulders to a large extent. A school like Georgetown because of it's national prestige, endowment, etc. could miss the NCAA tourney for the next 20 years and it would have virtually no impact on their ability to attract top notch students, raise money, etc. because at the end of the day they're Georgetown University and their national stature doesn't ebb and flow with the success or lack thereof of their men's BBall team. Unfortunately MU doesn't have that luxury so the BOT would be wise to heed 1SE's warning.
Quote from: Disco Hippie on February 05, 2018, 01:50:36 PM
Couldn't agree more with this statement! 1SE has touched on this a number of times and I think it bears mentioning again that having a consistently successful men's basketball program is absolutely essential to the long term health of MU. When the team succeeds, alumni donations increase, applications increase and come from a much more geographically diverse footprint, and MU's national profile is enhanced tremendously as a result. When we're not doing well the opposite occurs. It's not an exaggeration to say that our players carry the weight of the university on their shoulders to a large extent. A school like Georgetown because of it's national prestige, endowment, etc. could miss the NCAA tourney for the next 20 years and it would have virtually no impact on their ability to attract top notch students, raise money, etc. because at the end of the day they're Georgetown University and their national stature doesn't ebb and flow with the success or lack thereof of their men's BBall team. Unfortunately MU doesn't have that luxury so the BOT would be wise to heed 1SE's warning.
I think alot of people here would disagree with with, but I completely agree.
Quote from: Disco Hippie on February 05, 2018, 01:50:36 PM
Couldn't agree more with this statement! 1SE has touched on this a number of times and I think it bears mentioning again that having a consistently successful men's basketball program is absolutely essential to the long term health of MU. When the team succeeds, alumni donations increase, applications increase and come from a much more geographically diverse footprint, and MU's national profile is enhanced tremendously as a result. When we're not doing well the opposite occurs. It's not an exaggeration to say that our players carry the weight of the university on their shoulders to a large extent. A school like Georgetown because of it's national prestige, endowment, etc. could miss the NCAA tourney for the next 20 years and it would have virtually no impact on their ability to attract top notch students, raise money, etc. because at the end of the day they're Georgetown University and their national stature doesn't ebb and flow with the success or lack thereof of their men's BBall team. Unfortunately MU doesn't have that luxury so the BOT would be wise to heed 1SE's warning.
Clearly Marquette knows this. Basketball is its biggest marketing tool. You don't think Marquette is trying to win? Of course they are.