MUScoop

Here is the latest update on Tom Crean. He is doing very well. If Tom Izzo is thrown out, will MSU go with Crean or Wojo?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-tom-crean-espn-indiana-20180123-story.html

What does Tom izzo have to do with Gymnastics in any way?

He's not the ad is he?

Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on January 26, 2018, 06:33:50 PM
What does Tom izzo have to do with Gymnastics in any way?

He's not the ad is he?

You should check Espn

My guess is that Izzo survives. D'Antonio on the other hand....

Quote from: Smokin' Jae on January 26, 2018, 06:47:20 PM
You should check Espn

Bro I never have espn on. It'll send me 42 notifications of every time Trae young shoots the ball or leBron enters McDonald's.

Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on January 26, 2018, 07:00:38 PM
Bro I never have espn on. It'll send me 42 notifications of every time Trae young shoots the ball or leBron enters McDonald's.

Yea you right actually, F Espn, but this is their story

Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on January 26, 2018, 07:00:38 PM
Bro I never have espn on. It'll send me 42 notifications of every time Trae young shoots the ball or leBron enters McDonald's.

Mostly right, but OTL is still great

FS1 will have Tom Izzo's press conference after the Wisconsin-Michigan State game.

Yeaaaah that OTL piece on ESPN is pretty brutal and damning with consideration to Izzo and D'Antonio

No 4ever?

What has Wojo done that makes you think MSU would pursue him?

Wow press con Izzo looks bad, sounds bad, feels like he might not be able to handle the pressure

Let's be honest, MSU isn't going to take a coach that couldn't cut it in the Big Ten or a coach that has yet to win a tourney game. They are an established program, and while the school is going to suffer in a big way in the coming years due to this scandal, Wojo still won't be on their radar.

1) Izzo is going nowhere.
2) If it is bad enough to force Izzo out, MSU will not get anyone near Wojo.

What's Louisville end up with? David Padgett. And what Louisville did was absurd, but it's nothing compared to what MSU did/didn't do, and if the basketball program was involved they will be far worse off.

As always with Heise, the poll/thread is to get attention. But if Izzo was out due to this they won't do nearly as well as getting someone like Wojo.

Quote from: NickelDimer on January 26, 2018, 09:22:18 PM
What has Wojo done that makes you think MSU would pursue him?

This sort of scandal is the exact reason MU hired a spotless young asst like Wojo.

As much as I liked our success under Buzz, it was only a matter of time before things got out of control, if they weren't already.

Steve Wojciechowski is doing things the right way, and holding our guys accountable in every possible manner of reference. I'm proud that he is our Coach. I'm honestly more impressed by the appointment of Markus to the NCAA committee than I am by his stellar play. What a great kid! And Greg Elliott is so articulate, such a good teammate. All the guys are impressive as people and as players.

Quote from: ZenyattasTapitColt on January 27, 2018, 02:03:08 AM
This sort of scandal is the exact reason MU hired a spotless young asst like Wojo.

As much as I liked our success under Buzz, it was only a matter of time before things got out of control, if they weren't already.

Steve Wojciechowski is doing things the right way, and holding our guys accountable in every possible manner of reference. I'm proud that he is our Coach. I'm honestly more impressed by the appointment of Markus to the NCAA committee than I am by his stellar play. What a great kid! And Greg Elliott is so articulate, such a good teammate. All the guys are impressive as people and as players.

...and students.

Two different press conferences by D'Antonio and Izzo.

D'Antonio was adamant and stated complete denial of all allegations, citing each incident was reported, etc.

Izzo made brief one sentence statement advising he won't discuss and looked like a beaten up man. 

Who knows by going with the above, but D'Antonio was aggressive, basically saying if I am going down, I am going down with a fight.  Izzo looked like a guy who knew the facts and has already given up. 

Quote from: ZenyattasTapitColt on January 27, 2018, 02:03:08 AM
This sort of scandal is the exact reason MU hired a spotless young asst like Wojo.

As much as I liked our success under Buzz, it was only a matter of time before things got out of control, if they weren't already.

Steve Wojciechowski is doing things the right way, and holding our guys accountable in every possible manner of reference. I'm proud that he is our Coach. I'm honestly more impressed by the appointment of Markus to the NCAA committee than I am by his stellar play. What a great kid! And Greg Elliott is so articulate, such a good teammate. All the guys are impressive as people and as players.

All very admirable things, and yet not enough to get him a job at MSU

I think Izzo and D'Antonio are both gone. I also think we should feel very fortunate that the President, Athletic Director, Head Basketball Coach, and entire coaching staff that were here in 2011 are now gone.

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 27, 2018, 08:30:06 AM
I think Izzo and D'Antonio are both gone. I also think we should feel very fortunate that the President, Athletic Director, Head Basketball Coach, and entire coaching staff that were here in 2011 are now gone.

+1

Quote from: nyg on January 27, 2018, 06:48:04 AM
Two different press conferences by D'Antonio and Izzo.

D'Antonio was adamant and stated complete denial of all allegations, citing each incident was reported, etc.

Izzo made brief one sentence statement advising he won't discuss and looked like a beaten up man. 

Who knows by going with the above, but D'Antonio was aggressive, basically saying if I am going down, I am going down with a fight.  Izzo looked like a guy who knew the facts and has already given up. 

Just remember that Izzo just got done coaching a basketball game.  I wouldn't read too much into his demeanor.

Quote from: #bansultan on January 27, 2018, 08:41:20 AMJust remember that Izzo just got done coaching a basketball game.  I wouldn't read too much into his demeanor.

Yeah, but he knew this was coming. Izzo isn't a stupid guy, he knew the focus after the fact would be the OTL article and what his role was in those events.

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 27, 2018, 08:30:06 AM
I think Izzo and D'Antonio are both gone. I also think we should feel very fortunate that the President, Athletic Director, Head Basketball Coach, and entire coaching staff that were here in 2011 are now gone.

This is correct.

Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 27, 2018, 06:06:03 AM

...and students.

+100

Also, my guess is the next MSU Head Coach is Dane Fife on an interim basis. He's the only assistant that wasn't around for the events in the OTL story and has head coaching experience. After that, I'd guess they look for someone well outside the family tree, which means no Crean. Unless we make a surprise Sweet 16 or Elite 8 run, I'd guess that Wojo won't be on their short list.

Dantonio sounded like a guy who knew he was in deep crap. Izzo sounded like a guy who now knows what awful crap was going on at the institution he has worked at for decades and helped to build into what it is and is dreading the fact that this happened and he'll have to deal with the consequences.

Pretty typically the stronger the denial the more guilt there is.

Did people not listen to anything Rick Pitino had to say? Or do people just actually believe that in all his scandals he was always just a victim of ignorance (of which nobody finds a problem with as well)?

It is gonna be interesting to watch all of this play out from afar.

And I'm really glad it's afar!

I'll wager Izzo will retire. He's too smart to get his name dragged through this stuff.

I'm sorry, but you can't sit there and insinuate Izzo (or Dantonio) advocate sexual assault or intentionally covering up such things to win sporting events. It's just not true. The media can spin it whatever way they want but what they're suggesting is dangerous and irresponsible.

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 27, 2018, 10:29:31 AM
I'll wager Izzo will retire. He's too smart to get his name dragged through this stuff.

I'm sorry, but you can't sit there and insinuate Izzo (or Dantonio) advocate sexual assault or intentionally covering up such things to win sporting events. It's just not true. The media can spin it whatever way they want but what they're suggesting is dangerous and irresponsible.

Yes.  Michigan State University has engaged in a systemic cover-up of sexual violence by its athletes, some of which involved athletes from both the football and basketball programs.  And both Dantonio and Izzo have been implicated.

But you know who is "dangerous and irresponsible?"  The media. 

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 27, 2018, 08:30:06 AM
I think Izzo and D'Antonio are both gone. I also think we should feel very fortunate that the President, Athletic Director, Head Basketball Coach, and entire coaching staff that were here in 2011 are now gone.

Doubtful on Izzo, maybe D'Antonio.   Izzo said he is not retiring. 

Quote from: wadesworld on January 27, 2018, 09:53:04 AM
Dantonio sounded like a guy who knew he was in deep crap. Izzo sounded like a guy who now knows what awful crap was going on at the institution he has worked at for decades and helped to build into what it is and is dreading the fact that this happened and he'll have to deal with the consequences.

Pretty typically the stronger the denial the more guilt there is.

Did people not listen to anything Rick Pitino had to say? Or do people just actually believe that in all his scandals he was always just a victim of ignorance (of which nobody finds a problem with as well)?

Paragraph 1.  Yes.  Paragraph 3. Yes.  Middle sentence.  Huh?  Where does this come from?  There have been people proclaiming innocence on things for 30 years to finally be proved right.  If one is innocent, there will be a strong denial because one wants to defend their reputation and clear their name.  No doubt there are also endless examples of people strongly denying something that are guilty as sin, but that doesn't make it a typical situation.   

Quote from: WarriorDad on January 27, 2018, 12:08:55 PM
Doubtful on Izzo, maybe D'Antonio.   Izzo said he is not retiring.

He said that, but I think they'll force him into retirement. If he didn't want his hand forced in the matter, maybe he shouldn't have made himself complicit when he covered up his players gang rape of Carolyn Schaner.

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 27, 2018, 12:57:22 PM
He said that, but I think they'll force him into retirement. If he didn't want his hand forced in the matter, maybe he shouldn't have made himself complicit when he covered up his players gang rape of Carolyn Schaner.

Was this an accusation?  Proven?  I do not know details, merely asking.  I would think if was a rape this would have been huge news but do not remember ever hearing about it.

Izzo.

Quote from: tower912 on January 27, 2018, 01:59:03 PM
Izzo.

Yup.

Quote from: WarriorDad on January 27, 2018, 12:20:25 PM
Paragraph 1.  Yes.  Paragraph 3. Yes.  Middle sentence.  Huh?  Where does this come from?  There have been people proclaiming innocence on things for 30 years to finally be proved right.  If one is innocent, there will be a strong denial because one wants to defend their reputation and clear their name.  No doubt there are also endless examples of people strongly denying something that are guilty as sin, but that doesn't make it a typical situation.   

What I mean is there's a reason there's a phrase, "he who doth protest too much..."

When people are going through a legal process and are truly innocent they typically can't say much more than something like Izzo said. He was very open about the fact that he literally cannot say anything as of right now beyond he's hoping for the best for the victims of these crimes. Of course it's not true in every instance. People can be coached to handle the media and get them to buy what they are selling. But to me Dantonio seemed a bit too aggressive in his denial while Izzo seemed sincere in what he was saying.

We'll see what comes of this. Could be just the opposite or could be both knew exactly what was happening.

Quote from: WarriorDad on January 27, 2018, 01:55:24 PM
Was this an accusation?  Proven?  I do not know details, merely asking.  I would think if was a rape this would have been huge news but do not remember ever hearing about it.

Did you read the OTL article? They spared few details regarding Schaner's story.

Quote from: Herman Cain on January 26, 2018, 05:13:13 PM
Here is the latest update on Tom Crean. He is doing very well. If Tom Izzo is thrown out, will MSU go with Crean or Wojo?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-tom-crean-espn-indiana-20180123-story.html

MSU  would  do better than either Crean or Wojo. If Izzo were to end up in the coach market, he would get any prime job he wanted. Top coaches:
1. Calmari
2. Izzo
3. Williams/Wright
5. Self

Quote from: willie warrior on January 27, 2018, 04:04:41 PM
MSU  would  do better than either Crean or Wojo. If Izzo were to end up in the coach market, he would get any prime job he wanted.

No he wouldn't.  Good lord, do you read what is going on?

Quote from: WarriorDad on January 27, 2018, 01:55:24 PM
Was this an accusation?  Proven?  I do not know details, merely asking.  I would think if was a rape this would have been huge news but do not remember ever hearing about it.

That you NEVER HEARD ABOUT IT is the the whole point of the OTL article and show.

The MSU sexual assault counselor said she was systematically shut down time after time by university and AD higher-ups when she had significant factual info (regarding rape after gang rape) straight from the myriad victims' mouths.

Quote from: ZenyattasTapitColt on January 27, 2018, 09:43:14 PM
That you NEVER HEARD ABOUT IT is the the whole point of the OTL article and show.

The MSU sexual assault counselor said she was systematically shut down time after time by university and AD higher-ups when she had significant factual info (regarding rape after gang rape) straight from the myriad victims' mouths.

I was caught up in the language used because I thought he meant they were convicted or even tried for rape and I had not heard about it. It probably was covered up by MSU, but he should have said alleged rape, because that is as far as we know it went.  We don't know for sure what happened in the articles I read today. The players say it was consensual. The prosecutor, Debra Rousseau Martinez, did not pursue the case and no charges were filed. In an odd twist is now in the Title IX office of Michigan State.

My belief is they probably did it and no charges being filed doesn't mean they didn't do it, but it also doesn't mean they did either.  I am old enough to have lived through Richard Jewell, William Dillon and Thomas Kennedy and so many others accused of murder, rape, and other crimes that it is probably best to have said alleged when it isn't 100% certain, even if I believe you guys are right that they probably did it.

If you are interested, a worthwhile charity is the Innocence Project.  https://www.innocenceproject.org/

That sounds a lot to me like Izzo saying "I hope they convicted the right person" in response to the Larry Nassar case. I'm sure that wasn't your intent, but considering the university from the police to the coaches to the athletic department to the president to the NCAA President have been involved in covering up sexual assault and rape for the better part of two decades (at the least) I'm inclined to believe the accuser, especially when she puts her name on it with so much detail and supported by so many other victims having simlar experiences.

Quote from: fjm on January 26, 2018, 08:09:42 PM
Yeaaaah that OTL piece on ESPN is pretty brutal and damning with consideration to Izzo and D'Antonio

yes, and everybody knows that ESPN is very credible and has no PC bias.

Quote from: willie warrior on January 28, 2018, 10:35:53 AM
yes, and everybody knows that ESPN is very credible and has no PC bias.

Uh...did you read it?

Quote from: willie warrior on January 28, 2018, 10:35:53 AM
yes, and everybody knows that ESPN is very credible and has no PC bias.

#sad

Quote from: Lazar's Headband on January 28, 2018, 10:42:55 AM
#sad

Yes, very sad that ESPN has been losing subscribers and watchers because of this.

Quote from: willie warrior on January 28, 2018, 07:36:02 PM
Yes, very sad that ESPN has been losing subscribers and watchers because of this.

LOL.  No.

Now do us all a favor and go read the story.  Maybe you'll learn something instead of the political lines that someone is feeding you.

Quote from: willie warrior on January 28, 2018, 07:36:02 PM
Yes, very sad that ESPN has been losing subscribers and watchers because of this.

Maybe a few. But the real reason they are losing viewers is cord cutting.

Quote from: nyg on January 27, 2018, 06:48:04 AM
Two different press conferences by D'Antonio and Izzo.

D'Antonio was adamant and stated complete denial of all allegations, citing each incident was reported, etc.

Izzo made brief one sentence statement advising he won't discuss and looked like a beaten up man. 

Who knows by going with the above, but D'Antonio was aggressive, basically saying if I am going down, I am going down with a fight.  Izzo looked like a guy who knew the facts and has already given up.

D'antonio came off defiant.   As we have seen with other sex scandals that does not bode well and he is gone.

Izzo seemed more indifferent/refused to directly address the big elephant in the room.  I think he survives but a new president and AD and a board under pressure will be charged with fixing this mess.  We shall see how Izzo does with multiple changes. It might ultimately lead to him eventually retiring

Good for Cassius Winston.  Hopefully he and his teammates take these words seriously:

"You don't put up walls," Winston said. "This is real life. This is a terrible situation. This is something we're going to use to tell our daughters one day, or our sons, especially. You can't ignore it. You've got to listen to it. We have to listen. We have to discuss. That's when you get answers."

Quote from: wadesworld on January 28, 2018, 09:37:36 PM
Good for Cassius Winston.  Hopefully he and his teammates take these words seriously:

"You don't put up walls," Winston said. "This is real life. This is a terrible situation. This is something we're going to use to tell our daughters one day, or our sons, especially. You can't ignore it. You've got to listen to it. We have to listen. We have to discuss. That's when you get answers."

I don't want to make generalizations, but Cassius Winston went to a HS where core values and principles of respect and decency were taught. There are good inner city kids that didn't have this background, but so many lack a father figure to teach them that women are to be respected. It's just a fact. We are so far from a world where freshman ineligibility would be actually implemented, but I think it's almost necessary in the wake of these pervasive sexual assault scandals. What the BigEast is doing with its freshmen life skills/ orientation program is so vital and preemptively relevant.

Travis Walton used to live in Tom Izzo's basement.

http://www.limaohio.com/sports/281851/tom-izzos-coaching-dna-runs-deep-in-travis-walton

Quote from: #bansultan on January 29, 2018, 08:40:02 AM
Travis Walton used to live in Tom Izzo's basement.

http://www.limaohio.com/sports/281851/tom-izzos-coaching-dna-runs-deep-in-travis-walton

Lol

Quote from: #bansultan on January 29, 2018, 08:40:02 AM
Travis Walton used to live in Tom Izzo's basement.

http://www.limaohio.com/sports/281851/tom-izzos-coaching-dna-runs-deep-in-travis-walton

The author coached at Lima Central Catholic. Aaron Hutchins alma mater?

Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on January 26, 2018, 07:00:38 PM
Bro I never have espn on. It'll send me 42 notifications of every time Trae young shoots the ball or leBron enters McDonald's.

I've been extremely annoyed by ESPN Trae Young notifications too.
"Trae Young is shooting warm-ups." 

Quote from: #bansultan on January 29, 2018, 08:40:02 AM
Travis Walton used to live in Tom Izzo's basement.

http://www.limaohio.com/sports/281851/tom-izzos-coaching-dna-runs-deep-in-travis-walton

Jeez, talk about bad timing for a puff piece...

Crean couldn't coach his way out of a brown paper bag.  I hope Michigan State hires him.  I hate Michigan State.