Poll: Next MSU head Coach Wojo or Crean?

[wadesworld]

Dantonio sounded like a guy who knew he was in deep crap. Izzo sounded like a guy who now knows what awful crap was going on at the institution he has worked at for decades and helped to build into what it is and is dreading the fact that this happened and he'll have to deal with the consequences.

Pretty typically the stronger the denial the more guilt there is.

Did people not listen to anything Rick Pitino had to say? Or do people just actually believe that in all his scandals he was always just a victim of ignorance (of which nobody finds a problem with as well)?

[MU82]

It is gonna be interesting to watch all of this play out from afar.

And I'm really glad it's afar!

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I'll wager Izzo will retire. He's too smart to get his name dragged through this stuff.

I'm sorry, but you can't sit there and insinuate Izzo (or Dantonio) advocate sexual assault or intentionally covering up such things to win sporting events. It's just not true. The media can spin it whatever way they want but what they're suggesting is dangerous and irresponsible.

[GGGG]

I'll wager Izzo will retire. He's too smart to get his name dragged through this stuff.

I'm sorry, but you can't sit there and insinuate Izzo (or Dantonio) advocate sexual assault or intentionally covering up such things to win sporting events. It's just not true. The media can spin it whatever way they want but what they're suggesting is dangerous and irresponsible.

Yes.  Michigan State University has engaged in a systemic cover-up of sexual violence by its athletes, some of which involved athletes from both the football and basketball programs.  And both Dantonio and Izzo have been implicated.

But you know who is "dangerous and irresponsible?"  The media. 

[WarriorDad]

I think Izzo and D'Antonio are both gone. I also think we should feel very fortunate that the President, Athletic Director, Head Basketball Coach, and entire coaching staff that were here in 2011 are now gone.

Doubtful on Izzo, maybe D'Antonio.   Izzo said he is not retiring. 

[WarriorDad]

Dantonio sounded like a guy who knew he was in deep crap. Izzo sounded like a guy who now knows what awful crap was going on at the institution he has worked at for decades and helped to build into what it is and is dreading the fact that this happened and he'll have to deal with the consequences.

Pretty typically the stronger the denial the more guilt there is.

Did people not listen to anything Rick Pitino had to say? Or do people just actually believe that in all his scandals he was always just a victim of ignorance (of which nobody finds a problem with as well)?

Paragraph 1.  Yes.  Paragraph 3. Yes.  Middle sentence.  Huh?  Where does this come from?  There have been people proclaiming innocence on things for 30 years to finally be proved right.  If one is innocent, there will be a strong denial because one wants to defend their reputation and clear their name.  No doubt there are also endless examples of people strongly denying something that are guilty as sin, but that doesn't make it a typical situation.   

[brewcity77]

Doubtful on Izzo, maybe D'Antonio.   Izzo said he is not retiring.

He said that, but I think they'll force him into retirement. If he didn't want his hand forced in the matter, maybe he shouldn't have made himself complicit when he covered up his players gang rape of Carolyn Schaner.

[WarriorDad]

He said that, but I think they'll force him into retirement. If he didn't want his hand forced in the matter, maybe he shouldn't have made himself complicit when he covered up his players gang rape of Carolyn Schaner.

Was this an accusation?  Proven?  I do not know details, merely asking.  I would think if was a rape this would have been huge news but do not remember ever hearing about it.

[tower912]

Izzo.

[wadesworld]

Izzo.

Yup.

Paragraph 1.  Yes.  Paragraph 3. Yes.  Middle sentence.  Huh?  Where does this come from?  There have been people proclaiming innocence on things for 30 years to finally be proved right.  If one is innocent, there will be a strong denial because one wants to defend their reputation and clear their name.  No doubt there are also endless examples of people strongly denying something that are guilty as sin, but that doesn't make it a typical situation.   

What I mean is there's a reason there's a phrase, "he who doth protest too much..."

When people are going through a legal process and are truly innocent they typically can't say much more than something like Izzo said. He was very open about the fact that he literally cannot say anything as of right now beyond he's hoping for the best for the victims of these crimes. Of course it's not true in every instance. People can be coached to handle the media and get them to buy what they are selling. But to me Dantonio seemed a bit too aggressive in his denial while Izzo seemed sincere in what he was saying.

We'll see what comes of this. Could be just the opposite or could be both knew exactly what was happening.

[brewcity77]

Was this an accusation?  Proven?  I do not know details, merely asking.  I would think if was a rape this would have been huge news but do not remember ever hearing about it.

Did you read the OTL article? They spared few details regarding Schaner's story.

[willie warrior]

Here is the latest update on Tom Crean. He is doing very well. If Tom Izzo is thrown out, will MSU go with Crean or Wojo?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-spt-tom-crean-espn-indiana-20180123-story.html

MSU  would  do better than either Crean or Wojo. If Izzo were to end up in the coach market, he would get any prime job he wanted. Top coaches:
1. Calmari
2. Izzo
3. Williams/Wright
5. Self

[GGGG]

MSU  would  do better than either Crean or Wojo. If Izzo were to end up in the coach market, he would get any prime job he wanted.

No he wouldn't.  Good lord, do you read what is going on?

[NorthernDancerColt]

Was this an accusation?  Proven?  I do not know details, merely asking.  I would think if was a rape this would have been huge news but do not remember ever hearing about it.

That you NEVER HEARD ABOUT IT is the the whole point of the OTL article and show.

The MSU sexual assault counselor said she was systematically shut down time after time by university and AD higher-ups when she had significant factual info (regarding rape after gang rape) straight from the myriad victims' mouths.

[WarriorDad]

That you NEVER HEARD ABOUT IT is the the whole point of the OTL article and show.

The MSU sexual assault counselor said she was systematically shut down time after time by university and AD higher-ups when she had significant factual info (regarding rape after gang rape) straight from the myriad victims' mouths.

I was caught up in the language used because I thought he meant they were convicted or even tried for rape and I had not heard about it. It probably was covered up by MSU, but he should have said alleged rape, because that is as far as we know it went.  We don't know for sure what happened in the articles I read today. The players say it was consensual. The prosecutor, Debra Rousseau Martinez, did not pursue the case and no charges were filed. In an odd twist is now in the Title IX office of Michigan State.

My belief is they probably did it and no charges being filed doesn't mean they didn't do it, but it also doesn't mean they did either.  I am old enough to have lived through Richard Jewell, William Dillon and Thomas Kennedy and so many others accused of murder, rape, and other crimes that it is probably best to have said alleged when it isn't 100% certain, even if I believe you guys are right that they probably did it.

If you are interested, a worthwhile charity is the Innocence Project.  https://www.innocenceproject.org/

[brewcity77]

That sounds a lot to me like Izzo saying "I hope they convicted the right person" in response to the Larry Nassar case. I'm sure that wasn't your intent, but considering the university from the police to the coaches to the athletic department to the president to the NCAA President have been involved in covering up sexual assault and rape for the better part of two decades (at the least) I'm inclined to believe the accuser, especially when she puts her name on it with so much detail and supported by so many other victims having simlar experiences.

[willie warrior]

Yeaaaah that OTL piece on ESPN is pretty brutal and damning with consideration to Izzo and D'Antonio

yes, and everybody knows that ESPN is very credible and has no PC bias.

[GGGG]

yes, and everybody knows that ESPN is very credible and has no PC bias.

Uh...did you read it?

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

yes, and everybody knows that ESPN is very credible and has no PC bias.

#sad

[willie warrior]

#sad

Yes, very sad that ESPN has been losing subscribers and watchers because of this.

[GGGG]

Yes, very sad that ESPN has been losing subscribers and watchers because of this.

LOL.  No.

Now do us all a favor and go read the story.  Maybe you'll learn something instead of the political lines that someone is feeding you.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yes, very sad that ESPN has been losing subscribers and watchers because of this.

Maybe a few. But the real reason they are losing viewers is cord cutting.

[Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist]

Two different press conferences by D'Antonio and Izzo.

D'Antonio was adamant and stated complete denial of all allegations, citing each incident was reported, etc.

Izzo made brief one sentence statement advising he won't discuss and looked like a beaten up man. 

Who knows by going with the above, but D'Antonio was aggressive, basically saying if I am going down, I am going down with a fight.  Izzo looked like a guy who knew the facts and has already given up.

D'antonio came off defiant.   As we have seen with other sex scandals that does not bode well and he is gone.

Izzo seemed more indifferent/refused to directly address the big elephant in the room.  I think he survives but a new president and AD and a board under pressure will be charged with fixing this mess.  We shall see how Izzo does with multiple changes. It might ultimately lead to him eventually retiring

[wadesworld]

Good for Cassius Winston.  Hopefully he and his teammates take these words seriously:

"You don't put up walls," Winston said. "This is real life. This is a terrible situation. This is something we're going to use to tell our daughters one day, or our sons, especially. You can't ignore it. You've got to listen to it. We have to listen. We have to discuss. That's when you get answers."

[NorthernDancerColt]

Good for Cassius Winston.  Hopefully he and his teammates take these words seriously:

"You don't put up walls," Winston said. "This is real life. This is a terrible situation. This is something we're going to use to tell our daughters one day, or our sons, especially. You can't ignore it. You've got to listen to it. We have to listen. We have to discuss. That's when you get answers."

I don't want to make generalizations, but Cassius Winston went to a HS where core values and principles of respect and decency were taught. There are good inner city kids that didn't have this background, but so many lack a father figure to teach them that women are to be respected. It's just a fact. We are so far from a world where freshman ineligibility would be actually implemented, but I think it's almost necessary in the wake of these pervasive sexual assault scandals. What the BigEast is doing with its freshmen life skills/ orientation program is so vital and preemptively relevant.