MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on October 30, 2017, 11:04:07 PM
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ESPN is losing 15,000 subscribers a day
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espn-cant-afford-monday-night-football/
Another blood-letting is coming (they laid off 100 personalities in April) ...
Sources: ESPN heading for more painful layoffs
http://www.sportingnews.com/other-sports/news/espn-layoffs-latest-news-rumors-firings-mike-greenberg-golic-scott-van-pelt-svp-jemele-hill/1js74yxvu7l0wz8g26kdwl7nd
and if the NFL cannot reverse its slide ....
ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espn-cant-afford-monday-night-football/
could this be next? Before you laugh it off, recognize this is how bad it is getting at ESPN
James Andrew Miller: Why ESPN Could Abandon NFL Football (Guest Column)
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/why-espn-could-abandon-nfl-football-guest-column-1052792
In a span of less than five years, industry giant ESPN has seen its narrative transformed from that of a mighty colossus into the hard-luck tale of a ragtag warrior.
As it struggles to regain heretofore heroic heights — levels of growth that are probably no longer attainable — ESPN has had to endure a slew of significant workforce layoffs (with more reportedly on the way) and a once-doting Wall Street that has turned a skeptically cold shoulder. Astonishing increases in earnings, previously viewed as faits accomplis, now seem like fantasies from another world, thanks to the now-familiar combo of cord-cutting and burgeoning rights fees.
With so much of ESPN’s universe asunder, it’s not outlandish now to entertain a previously unthinkable prospect: Might ESPN elect to go without rights to NFL games after the expiration of its eight-year deal for Monday Night Football in 2021?!
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On April 26 ESPN announced it was laying off 100 personalities
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/sports/espn-layoffs.html
Since that date ...
Disney Stock (ESPN is 50% of its earnings) is DOWN 14.54%
Over the same period, the S&P 500 is UP 8.86%
The difference is 23.40% is massive
The stock market is speaking very loud that ESPN is in a very bad place and NFL woes are hurting it.
Along the way, on August 9, ESPN said they might offer a stand-alone streaming service. Openly talking about breaking for the cable companies was considered a "game changer."
http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-espn-streaming-20170810-story.html
Since August 9 ...
Disney's Stock DOWN 4.66%
The S&P 500 is UP 4.43%
The difference is 9.09%
The market is saying this game changer will not work
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People are not leaving cable to get rid of ESPN. People are leaving cable because the product sucks and unlike in the past, there are other options.
Netflix is more responsible than any other single factor.
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Only thing Scoop needed more than another NFL thread is another Snowflake Smuggles end-times thread. Thanks!
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There should just be an "ESPN/NFL Ratings" board at this point on Scoop.
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On April 26 ESPN announced it was laying off 100 personalities
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/26/sports/espn-layoffs.html
Since that date ...
Disney Stock (ESPN is 50% of its earnings) is DOWN 14.54%
Over the same period, the S&P 500 is UP 8.86%
The difference is 23.40% is massive
The stock market is speaking very loud that ESPN is in a very bad place and NFL woes are hurting it.
Along the way, on August 9, ESPN said they might offer a stand-alone streaming service. Openly talking about breaking for the cable companies was considered a "game changer."
http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-espn-streaming-20170810-story.html
Since August 9 ...
Disney's Stock DOWN 4.66%
The S&P 500 is UP 4.43%
The difference is 9.09%
The market is saying this game changer will not work
ESPN is losing 15,000 subscribers a day
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espn-cant-afford-monday-night-football/
Another blood-letting is coming (they laid off 100 personalities in April) ...
Sources: ESPN heading for more painful layoffs
http://www.sportingnews.com/other-sports/news/espn-layoffs-latest-news-rumors-firings-mike-greenberg-golic-scott-van-pelt-svp-jemele-hill/1js74yxvu7l0wz8g26kdwl7nd
and if the NFL cannot reverse its slide ....
ESPN Can’t Afford Monday Night Football Any More
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/espn-cant-afford-monday-night-football/
could this be next? Before you laugh it off, recognize this is how bad it is getting at ESPN
James Andrew Miller: Why ESPN Could Abandon NFL Football (Guest Column)
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/why-espn-could-abandon-nfl-football-guest-column-1052792
In a span of less than five years, industry giant ESPN has seen its narrative transformed from that of a mighty colossus into the hard-luck tale of a ragtag warrior.
As it struggles to regain heretofore heroic heights — levels of growth that are probably no longer attrightble — ESPN has had to endure a slew of significant workforce layoffs (with more reportedly on the way) and a once-doting Wall Street that has turned a skeptically cold shoulder. Astonishing increases in earnings, previously viewed as faits accomplis, now seem like fantasies from another world, thanks to the now-familiar combo of cord-cutting and burgeoning rights fees.
With so much of ESPN’s universe asunder, it’s not outlandish now to entertain a previously unthinkable prospect: Might ESPN elect to go without rights to NFL games after the expiration of its eight-year deal for Monday Night Football in 2021?!
So?
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Stock down 11% today as the company says people are not watching as much football and not ordering as many pizzas.
Papa John's says NFL protests are hurting sales
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/01/media/nfl-papa-johns-protests/index.html
The pizza company, an official sponsor of the league, sliced its sales and profit forecasts on Tuesday. And Papa John's founder and CEO John Schnatter wasn't shy about who he thinks is to blame: Commissioner Roger Goodell.
"Leadership starts at the top, and this is an example of poor leadership," Schnatter said on a conference call with investors Wednesday. "The NFL has hurt Papa John's shareholders."
NFL ratings, like the rest of network television, are in a slump. Through Week 7, NFL viewership is down 5% overall from the same point last year.
Though the ratings slump has many causes, some NFL fans may have tuned out because of the controversy over players kneeling during the National Anthem to protest police violence.
Still, Schnatter put the NFL squarely at fault. He specifically cited the anthem protests as the root of the problem.
"The controversy is polarizing the customer, polarizing the country," Schnatter said.
In response, Papa John's pulled some of its planned commercials from NFL games this season. Schnatter said the NFL has promised to give the pizza company future spots in return.
"It indeed appears that National Football League strife may be weighing on same-store sales to some degree, with Papa John's as the NFL's Official Pizza Sponsor bearing some brunt of this issue," Instinet analysts wrote in a research note Tuesday. "Sponsorship of NFL = No Free Lunch."
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Nah, Papa John's pizza just sucks.
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Stock down 11% today as the company says people are not watching as much football and not ordering as many pizzas.
Papa John's says NFL protests are hurting sales
http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/01/media/nfl-papa-johns-protests/index.html
The pizza company, an official sponsor of the league, sliced its sales and profit forecasts on Tuesday. And Papa John's founder and CEO John Schnatter wasn't shy about who he thinks is to blame: Commissioner Roger Goodell.
"Leadership starts at the top, and this is an example of poor leadership," Schnatter said on a conference call with investors Wednesday. "The NFL has hurt Papa John's shareholders."
NFL ratings, like the rest of network television, are in a slump. Through Week 7, NFL viewership is down 5% overall from the same point last year.
Though the ratings slump has many causes, some NFL fans may have tuned out because of the controversy over players kneeling during the National Anthem to protest police violence.
Still, Schnatter put the NFL squarely at fault. He specifically cited the anthem protests as the root of the problem.
"The controversy is polarizing the customer, polarizing the country," Schnatter said.
In response, Papa John's pulled some of its planned commercials from NFL games this season. Schnatter said the NFL has promised to give the pizza company future spots in return.
"It indeed appears that National Football League strife may be weighing on same-store sales to some degree, with Papa John's as the NFL's Official Pizza Sponsor bearing some brunt of this issue," Instinet analysts wrote in a research note Tuesday. "Sponsorship of NFL = No Free Lunch."
FWIW, one of the more popular bars in my town is no longer selling Budweiser products because of their advertising on NFL, but that is the first time I've heard of the NFL protests having any effect on their sponsors. The above is the second, I guess (although some would say it poor leadership to blame the struggles of your business on the leadership of another.)
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If this caused Papa John to go bankrupt, I would consider it a win/win.
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FWIW, one of the more popular bars in my town is no longer selling Budweiser products because of their advertising on NFL, but that is the first time I've heard of the NFL protests having any effect on their sponsors. The above is the second, I guess (although some would say it poor leadership to blame the struggles of your business on the leadership of another.)
I completely agree with the highlighted part. And yes it might be papa johns looking to shift blame from their own problems.
Nevertheless, they are a big advertiser/sponsor of the NFL and they are extremely unhappy. Assume a lot more sponsors are equally unhappy (but have not said it out loud). One advertiser is rumoured to be fuming mad at the NFL is Anheiser Busch. Remember last year they renamed their beer "America." Think about who that is marketing to and how they must feel about the protests? Ditto pickup truck buyers? How many pickup truck drivers voted for Trump and how do you think they feel about the protests?
Add into this McNair's "inmates running the prison" and the NFL is nothing short of a disaster right now.
In the meantime another company that relies on the NFL, that being ESPN, is bleeding out because of the NFL's inability to get a handle on the protests.
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Papa John is a douche nozzle and his pizza is crapty.
MAYBE that's the problem.
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I just love how many of you base your analysis on your politics. Talk about douche nozzles.
Gooddell has handled the National Anthem situation terribly. If you don't believe it keep looking for collusion among Trump campaign staff and for reasons that HRC lost the election beyond her being a horrid candidate.
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I just love how many of you base your analysis on your politics. Talk about douche nozzles.
Gooddell has handled the National Anthem situation terribly. If you don't believe it keep looking for collusion among Trump campaign staff and for reasons that HRC lost the election beyond her being a horrid candidate.
I hated the pizza while in school and then found out that Papa Johnnie isn't a good dude. So politics came after the bad pizza.
Owning a business 101 is don't let anyone know your politics if it can harm your brand.
And since you can't avoid politics for some reason HRC lost the election because she read the tea leaves terribly. She didn't bother with states she thought she had won (Wisconsin and Michigan) and she was a divisive candidate from day one.
Also, collusion happened. Obviously. Lordy.
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I just love how many of you base your analysis on your politics. Talk about douche nozzles.
Gooddell has handled the National Anthem situation terribly. If you don't believe it keep looking for collusion among Trump campaign staff and for reasons that HRC lost the election beyond her being a horrid candidate.
Liberal, conservative, independent, k-9.... Papa John's pizza sucks.
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Liberal, conservative, independent, k-9.... Papa John's pizza sucks.
Amen.
I thought Heisy was the village idiot in this thread till Rara chimed in.
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There should just be an "ESPN/NFL Ratings" board at this point on Scoop.
Amen, or a Heisey board.
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I'll take Papa John's over the other fast pizza places.
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I'll take Papa John's over the other fast pizza places.
This. If you compare Papa John's to quality pizza, of course it sucks. If your feeding 20 people Za during an NFL game, it's great.
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I hated the pizza while in school and then found out that Papa Johnnie isn't a good dude. So politics came after the bad pizza.
Owning a business 101 is don't let anyone know your politics if it can harm your brand. Have you told Marcus Lemonis?
And since you can't avoid politics for some reason HRC lost the election because she read the tea leaves terribly. She didn't bother with states she thought she had won (Wisconsin and Michigan) and she was a divisive candidate from day one. And she had no idea how to explain why she deserved to be POTUS
Also, collusion happened. Obviously. Lordy. Haven't been watching the news this week?
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This. If you compare Papa John's to quality pizza, of course it sucks. If your feeding 20 people Za during an NFL game, it's great.
I feel for your guests. Its awful.
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This. If you compare Papa John's to quality pizza, of course it sucks. If your feeding 20 people Za during an NFL game, it's great.
Yeah, sorry, no.
If you want a pizza delivered in less than 25 minutes for less than $13, you go Papa John's.
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Papa John's blows.
And maybe people are protesting its owner's politics.
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I feel for your guests. Its awful.
Buying Papa John's, Dominoes, Little Caesars, etc for my guests/friends?
What an insult to them. Simply says "cheapskate".
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I hated the pizza while in school and then found out that Papa Johnnie isn't a good dude. So politics came after the bad pizza.
Owning a business 101 is don't let anyone know your politics if it can harm your brand.
And since you can't avoid politics for some reason HRC lost the election because she read the tea leaves terribly. She didn't bother with states she thought she had won (Wisconsin and Michigan) and she was a divisive candidate from day one.
Also, collusion happened. Obviously. Lordy.
Make it stop.
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Bahahahahaha
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China considers three-year jail terms for disrespecting national anthem, flag
OCTOBER 30, 2017 / 9:22 PM / 2 DAYS AGO
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-law-anthem/china-considers-three-year-jail-terms-for-disrespecting-national-anthem-flag-idUSKBN1D0075
China passed a new law in September mandating up to 15 days in police detention for those who mock the “March of the Volunteers” national anthem, a law that also covers the Chinese territories of Hong Kong and Macau.
Parliament is now looking at whether to amend China’s Criminal Law to include criminal penalties for disrespect of the national anthem, including intentionally distorting the lyrics or tune, Xinhua said.
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Darren Rovell is the Sports Business Reporter for ESPN
@darrenrovell
Papa John’s says it has been pulling advertising associated with the NFL. The league, it says, has given some future spots in return.
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Netflix is more responsible than any other single factor.
That made me laugh.
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Papa John is a douche nozzle and his pizza is crapty.
MAYBE that's the problem.
This is the season people found this out?
It's pure coincidence that ratings are tanking, sponsors are being hit, CBS and FOX stocks warned of under performance, NFL related merchandise and subscriptions down all in the same year. The next thing someone will say they are not eating pizza because of the founder's politics. Of course that founder used to be one of those underdog guys that started the franchise in a broom closet.
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That made me laugh.
True, though.
I meant the availability of all of the streaming channels, but used Netflix as an example as they were the first mainstream one to make a dent.
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This is the season people found this out?
It's pure coincidence that ratings are tanking, sponsors are being hit, CBS and FOX stocks warned of under performance, NFL related merchandise and subscriptions down all in the same year. The next thing someone will say they are not eating pizza because of the founder's politics. Of course that founder used to be one of those underdog guys that started the franchise in a broom closet.
All very fair points. I think that injuries, suspensions, and CTE problems are probably more to blame than the National Anthem issue.
Personally, now that Rodgers is out, I have a much smaller interest in football.
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This is the season people found this out?
It's pure coincidence that ratings are tanking, sponsors are being hit, CBS and FOX stocks warned of under performance, NFL related merchandise and subscriptions down all in the same year. The next thing someone will say they are not eating pizza because of the founder's politics. Of course that founder used to be one of those underdog guys that started the franchise in a broom closet.
Please cease with points that are cogent and logical. People aren't interested in the truth when it conflicts with their politics/biases.
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Please cease with points that are cogent and logical. People aren't interested in the truth when it conflicts with their politics/biases.
I don't think it is illogical to assume that ratings are down for a multitude of reasons.
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I don't think it is illogical to assume that ratings are down for a multitude of reasons.
OK, but let's at least be honest. Injuries? There are injuries every year. Fans who don't watch because their "fave" is hurt (like Hards) are anomalies. Netflix and other "choices"? You can watch those shows/movies anytime. People aren't giving up watching live sports for that. CTE? I'll grant this has some effect, but it's not exactly a new issue. The new, big issue fans have with the NFL is on the job political protests by its players. Whether you agree with the majority of NFL fans or the players involved in the protests is beside the point - they are the biggest (by miles) reason for fan dissatisfaction with the NFL.
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OK, but let's at least be honest. Injuries? There are injuries every year. Fans who don't watch because their "fave" is hurt (like Hards) are anomalies. Netflix and other "choices"? You can watch those shows/movies anytime. People aren't giving up watching live sports for that. CTE? I'll grant this has some effect, but it's not exactly a new issue. The new, big issue fans have with the NFL is on the job political protests by its players. Whether you agree with the majority of NFL fans or the players involved in the protests is beside the point - they are the biggest (by miles) reason for fan dissatisfaction with the NFL.
Meh. Ratings have been declining for years.
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OK, but let's at least be honest. Injuries? There are injuries every year. Fans who don't watch because their "fave" is hurt (like Hards) are anomalies. Netflix and other "choices"? You can watch those shows/movies anytime. People aren't giving up watching live sports for that. CTE? I'll grant this has some effect, but it's not exactly a new issue. The new, big issue fans have with the NFL is on the job political protests by its players. Whether you agree with the majority of NFL fans or the players involved in the protests is beside the point - they are the biggest (by miles) reason for fan dissatisfaction with the NFL.
I think they are down mostly because the product is mediocre. And ratings are down most everywhere so there are macro events at play.
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I should add that I actually hope these player protests are screwing with the owners bottom line. They've treated the players like trash since the last CBA, have pretty much black-listed a player because he is standing up for what he believes in, and now the old, white men are suffering for it. That is like my wet dream.
But unfortunately that is only part of the reason for the decline in ratings.
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This is the season people found this out?
It's pure coincidence that ratings are tanking, sponsors are being hit, CBS and FOX stocks warned of under performance, NFL related merchandise and subscriptions down all in the same year. The next thing someone will say they are not eating pizza because of the founder's politics. Of course that founder used to be one of those underdog guys that started the franchise in a broom closet.
Another chicos name?
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Ok, back to the original topic at hand-ESPN is struggling to say the least. The numbers are the numbers. That being said, if you were to be hired as the new CEO of espn to bring it back, what would you do?
I expect to see some tongue in cheek responses and maybe even some real fixes that may roll some eyes, but here’s what I would do-
go back to what made it great:
I vaguely remember when ESPN first came out, but all I know is that whether part of it had to do with my age at the time, But i was a big sports geek and they did SPORTS.
Reduce the subscription fee
Get rid of the politics
It’s weird that as many companies start up, they become successful within themselves. They start doing well, grow, become a player and then like a drug, politics comes in and they play their audience like a bunch of suckers. The drug reference? How does politics within any business make it any better than it was starting out? If that were the case, hell, just start out political and then mix your business into that?
Business 101-do not entertain sex, religion and politics mix into business, unless you want to divide and limit your business along those genres.
Stay with what you know. I’ve noticed some dental offices offering all kinds of extra “WOW” factors. Massage chairs, foot massages, coffee, cookies(healthy, non sugar of course) popcorn, video games, hot towels and many more. Get a bad massage or cup of coffee, I’m not going back...wait, I went their for a cleaning and a filling and the smell of popcorn in a dental office didn’t agree with me and my son is allergic to peanuts-you didn’t use peanut oil to make the popcorn did you? But is it gluten free? No ma’am but it is antibiotic free black angus, and on and on-
Do what you do well AND keep doing it well. All the other stuff is just noise
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Meh. Ratings have been declining for years.
Ratings peaked in 2013. 2014 and 2015 showed moderate dips. In 2016 (Kaps 1st protest year, the pig/cop socks, etc.) they fell hard. As many joined the protests in 2017 the ratings continue to fall hard. Occam's Razor.
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Ok, back to the original topic at hand-ESPN is struggling to say the least. The numbers are the numbers. That being said, if you were to be hired as the new CEO of espn to bring it back, what would you do?
I expect to see some tongue in cheek responses and maybe even some real fixes that may roll some eyes, but here’s what I would do-
go back to what made it great:
I vaguely remember when ESPN first came out, but all I know is that whether part of it had to do with my age at the time, But i was a big sports geek and they did SPORTS.
Reduce the subscription fee
Get rid of the politics
It’s weird that as many companies start up, they become successful within themselves. They start doing well, grow, become a player and then like a drug, politics comes in and they play their audience like a bunch of suckers. The drug reference? How does politics within any business make it any better than it was starting out? If that were the case, hell, just start out political and then mix your business into that?
Business 101-do not entertain sex, religion and politics mix into business, unless you want to divide and limit your business along those genres.
Stay with what you know. I’ve noticed some dental offices offering all kinds of extra “WOW” factors. Massage chairs, foot massages, coffee, cookies(healthy, non sugar of course) popcorn, video games, hot towels and many more. Get a bad massage or cup of coffee, I’m not going back...wait, I went their for a cleaning and a filling and the smell of popcorn in a dental office didn’t agree with me and my son is allergic to peanuts-you didn’t use peanut oil to make the popcorn did you? But is it gluten free? No ma’am but it is antibiotic free black angus, and on and on-
Do what you do well AND keep doing it well. All the other stuff is just noise
At the end of the day, I think ESPN (and others) are getting screwed because of contracts they've made to host sports/leagues/conferences. We see those numbers all the time. Like how much fox paid for big east bball. We we're probably all happy that mu was getting a big chunk.
The problem is, as it is with a TON of areas of society, is people want the quick buck and the short term fix. The financial model was not sustainable. ESPN and others are on the hook for payments. It's gonna be a bubble like others. And who will hurt the most? Not the ones at the top, that's for sure.
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OK, but let's at least be honest. Injuries? There are injuries every year. Fans who don't watch because their "fave" is hurt (like Hards) are anomalies. Netflix and other "choices"? You can watch those shows/movies anytime. People aren't giving up watching live sports for that. CTE? I'll grant this has some effect, but it's not exactly a new issue. The new, big issue fans have with the NFL is on the job political protests by its players. Whether you agree with the majority of NFL fans or the players involved in the protests is beside the point - they are the biggest (by miles) reason for fan dissatisfaction with the NFL.
The NFL ratings decline is part of an overall decline in television viewership. In fact, NFL ratings have actually declined less than most programming.
This is a simple, indisputable fact.
It's driven by the protests, or the length of commercial breaks, or injuries, or quality of play. It's driven by changes in the way access their entertainment.
People who truly believe that television ratings overall are down for one reason, but NFL ratings are down for another, separate reason are dim.
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I think they are down mostly because the product is mediocre. And ratings are down most everywhere so there are macro events at play.
not baseball, not the nba
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Ratings peaked in 2013. 2014 and 2015 showed moderate dips. In 2016 (Kaps 1st protest year, the pig/cop socks, etc.) they fell hard. As many joined the protests in 2017 the ratings continue to fall hard. Occam's Razor.
Even if true, it's outrageous. ESPN, papa John's, other advertiser, etc getting mad at people protesting against racism. Because of their financial situation. Think about that. $$$ > addressing/working against racism. What a sad commentary about our society
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The NFL ratings decline is part of an overall decline in television viewership. In fact, NFL ratings have actually declined less than most programming.
This is a simple, indisputable fact.
It's driven by the protests, or the length of commercial breaks, or injuries, or quality of play. It's driven by changes in the way access their entertainment.
People who truly believe that television ratings overall are down for one reason, but NFL ratings are down for another, separate reason are dim.
this tortured logic with incorrect facts (the NFL is crashing the last 2 to 3 years while most other sports are rising. ... even freaking Tennis is rising in the last 2 to 3 years).
The problem is too many in the NFL thinks this actually passes as the rationalization which is why they cannot/will not the obvious elephant in the room as to the real problem.
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not baseball, not the nba
https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2017/10/10/here-are-the-2017-mlb-prime-time-television-ratings-for-each-team/#12fcd29d3799
Overall, league ratings in prime time were down -6% compared to last season with the Detroit Tigers (down -38%) leading the way in ratings drag from the year prior.
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/nba-regular-season-ratings-1202031083/
ABC, ESPN, and TNT saw NBA viewership decline slightly in the 2016-17 regular season, the first covered under a multi-billion-dollar contract extension between the league and its television partners that reaches through 2024-25.
National NBA telecasts across the three channels and cable network NBA TV averaged 1.19 million total viewers for the season ending on Wednesday — down 6% from the 2015-16 season, but even with the average from 2014-15. Under a new television deal, the three networks combined to broadcast 19 more games than last season.
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Even if true, it's outrageous. ESPN, papa John's, other advertiser, etc getting mad at people protesting against racism. Because of their financial situation. Think about that. $$$ > addressing/working against racism. What a sad commentary about our society
Is that what they are protesting against? Becuase every week every player has a different reason for taking a knee. In the end, it all just looks like disrespecting the country.
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Another chicos name?
Boy oh boy...they do have help for some of these derangements. So anything you may have a disagreement with becomes “Chico’s”?? Focus Jesmu focus
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Boy oh boy...they do have help for some of these derangements. So anything you may have a disagreement with becomes “Chico’s”?? Focus Jesmu focus
I apologize. I just assumed it was a new account for our friend chicos/4or5. I was kind of correct. Seems he renamed 4or5 to this new "McPherson".
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Is that what they are protesting against? Becuase every week every player has a different reason for taking a knee. In the end, it all just looks like disrespecting the country.
The anthem stands for something to MOST people. On the field, there is a decorum that is expected during the anthem, God bless America, presenting of the colors, a moment of silence for someone, etc. not acting within that decorum is considered disrespectful-period. Whatever it is that they claim they are doing is backfiring. The commish and the owners did not lead when this first started out and this is what happens. I don’t care if 50%(and that’s very high and generous) agree with it. You just lost the other half of your audience/ customers-not many businesses can afford to do that very often
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OK, but let's at least be honest. Injuries? There are injuries every year. Fans who don't watch because their "fave" is hurt (like Hards) are anomalies. Netflix and other "choices"? You can watch those shows/movies anytime. People aren't giving up watching live sports for that. CTE? I'll grant this has some effect, but it's not exactly a new issue. The new, big issue fans have with the NFL is on the job political protests by its players. Whether you agree with the majority of NFL fans or the players involved in the protests is beside the point - they are the biggest (by miles) reason for fan dissatisfaction with the NFL.
NASCAR ratings are down in 2017. Is that politics related as well? Also, the NFL players are not engaged in a political protest.
Then again, people aren't interested in the truth when it conflicts with their politics/biases.
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this tortured logic with incorrect facts (the NFL is crashing the last 2 to 3 years while most other sports are rising. ... even freaking Tennis is rising in the last 2 to 3 years).
The problem is too many in the NFL thinks this actually passes as the rationalization which is why they cannot/will not the obvious elephant in the room as to the real problem.
I get it. Facts are hard for some people. But let's try to inject some:
NBA viewership hit a five-year low in the 2016-17 season:
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/nba-viewership-hits-five-year-low-league-fix-problem/
NHL ratings in the U.S. fell 20 percent in 2016-17, down to their lowest levels since the early 90s.
http://awfulannouncing.com/nhl/2016-17-nhl-ratings-dropped-u-s-rose-canada.html
MLB ratings in local markets fell 6 percent this year:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2017/10/10/here-are-the-2017-mlb-prime-time-television-ratings-for-each-team/#706353243799
Ratings for golf's major events in 2017 were at their lowest levels since 2008:
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/8/14/36-2017-pga-ratings-lowest-since-08-whats-up.html
22 of 26 NASCAR races this year (through mid-September) saw a ratings decline:
http://awfulannouncing.com/racing/nascar-opens-2017-playoffs-lowest-rated-postseason-race-ever.html
Can't find full-year ratings yet, but MLS viewership was down 8 percent in the first month of the 2017 season:
http://lastwordonsoccer.com/2017/04/10/not-worry-low-mls-tv-ratings/
Need more? Given these numbers, the NFL's 5 percent decline (which, I'll reiterate, is a small drop than most other programming) doesn't seem so bad.
By the way ... if NFL ratings were crashing 2-3 years ago, as you claim, how is a protest that began less than 15 months ago to blame?
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More trivia: With one of the picks that the Oilers got from the Rams, they picked Alonzo Highsmith who of course works for the Packers.
I have come to the conclusion that every bad personnel decision that the Packers made in the 1980s was worth it. They had to hit rock bottom to clean house fully and get rid of the old culture. So I am glad they missed out on Everett. I am glad they won the last game of the year in 1988 so they couldn't draft Aikman. I am glad they drafted Tony Mandarich instead of Barry Sanders.
It was all worth it.
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The anthem stands for something to MOST people. On the field, there is a decorum that is expected during the anthem, God bless America, presenting of the colors, a moment of silence for someone, etc.
Among the few things more quintessentially American than these acts are...the act of protest. Cf. all of American history.
The fact that people - typically older white guys, who seem to be the angriest people around - try to legislate how and when black people can protest only validates the point of their protest in the first place.
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The anthem stands for something to MOST people. On the field, there is a decorum that is expected during the anthem, God bless America, presenting of the colors, a moment of silence for someone, etc. not acting within that decorum is considered disrespectful-period. Whatever it is that they claim they are doing is backfiring. The commish and the owners did not lead when this first started out and this is what happens. I don’t care if 50%(and that’s very high and generous) agree with it. You just lost the other half of your audience/ customers-not many businesses can afford to do that very often
What about not following the flag code? If it's so disrespectful to have a peaceful protest during the anthem, I bet you hold the flag code in highest respect and wouldn't tolerate anyone disparaging it, right?
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I get it. Facts are hard for some people. But let's try to inject some:
NBA viewership hit a five-year low in the 2016-17 season:
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/nba-viewership-hits-five-year-low-league-fix-problem/
NHL ratings in the U.S. fell 20 percent in 2016-17, down to their lowest levels since the early 90s.
http://awfulannouncing.com/nhl/2016-17-nhl-ratings-dropped-u-s-rose-canada.html
MLB ratings in local markets fell 6 percent this year:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2017/10/10/here-are-the-2017-mlb-prime-time-television-ratings-for-each-team/#706353243799
Ratings for golf's major events in 2017 were at their lowest levels since 2008:
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/8/14/36-2017-pga-ratings-lowest-since-08-whats-up.html
22 of 26 NASCAR races this year (through mid-September) saw a ratings decline:
http://awfulannouncing.com/racing/nascar-opens-2017-playoffs-lowest-rated-postseason-race-ever.html
Can't find full-year ratings yet, but MLS viewership was down 8 percent in the first month of the 2017 season:
http://lastwordonsoccer.com/2017/04/10/not-worry-low-mls-tv-ratings/
Need more? Given these numbers, the NFL's 5 percent decline (which, I'll reiterate, is a small drop than most other programming) doesn't seem so bad.
By the way ... if NFL ratings were crashing 2-3 years ago, as you claim, how is a protest that began less than 15 months ago to blame?
There you go again, Pakuni ... trying to win arguments with facts.
Haven't you heard? We are in the Alternative Facts World now. People make up whatever facts they need. It works for the most powerful person in the world, so why not Scoopers?
I was going to bring up NASCAR before somebody else did. There is a "sport" that wraps itself in the flag like no other. A bunch of good ol' white boys makin' a bunch of left turns in front of a big white audience. They respect all flags - including the Confederate one! I remember reading a few years back how NASCAR was the next big thing, ratings were going through the roof, etc.
What happened? After the NFL protests, they decided to seize on the moment and announced they would tolerate no protests. Why didn't their ratings soar?
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Darren Rovell is the Sports Business Reporter for ESPN
@darrenrovell
Papa John’s says it has been pulling advertising associated with the NFL. The league, it says, has given some future spots in return.
Scapegoating
https://sports.yahoo.com/even-papa-johns-scapegoating-nfl-roger-goodell-league-alarmed-234130771.html
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I apologize. I just assumed it was a new account for our friend chicos/4or5. I was kind of correct. Seems he renamed 4or5 to this new "McPherson".
It seems we are his only "friends". He needs us.
For some reason, I find that more amusing than pathetic.
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Ratings peaked in 2013. 2014 and 2015 showed moderate dips. In 2016 (Kaps 1st protest year, the pig/cop socks, etc.) they fell hard. As many joined the protests in 2017 the ratings continue to fall hard. Occam's Razor.
So you're conceding my point that it has been trending downward for years before the protests... yet you're saying that the most obvious answer (your opinion) is that that National Anthem protests is the cause?
Occam's razor should be on my side, since there was an established problem with the NFL for years... the simplest answer is probably the right answer... You're creating a narrative that isn't more simple.
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I get it. Facts are hard for some people. But let's try to inject some:
NBA viewership hit a five-year low in the 2016-17 season:
https://www.outkickthecoverage.com/nba-viewership-hits-five-year-low-league-fix-problem/
NHL ratings in the U.S. fell 20 percent in 2016-17, down to their lowest levels since the early 90s.
http://awfulannouncing.com/nhl/2016-17-nhl-ratings-dropped-u-s-rose-canada.html
MLB ratings in local markets fell 6 percent this year:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2017/10/10/here-are-the-2017-mlb-prime-time-television-ratings-for-each-team/#706353243799
Ratings for golf's major events in 2017 were at their lowest levels since 2008:
http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2017/8/14/36-2017-pga-ratings-lowest-since-08-whats-up.html
22 of 26 NASCAR races this year (through mid-September) saw a ratings decline:
http://awfulannouncing.com/racing/nascar-opens-2017-playoffs-lowest-rated-postseason-race-ever.html
Can't find full-year ratings yet, but MLS viewership was down 8 percent in the first month of the 2017 season:
http://lastwordonsoccer.com/2017/04/10/not-worry-low-mls-tv-ratings/
Need more? Given these numbers, the NFL's 5 percent decline (which, I'll reiterate, is a small drop than most other programming) doesn't seem so bad.
By the way ... if NFL ratings were crashing 2-3 years ago, as you claim, how is a protest that began less than 15 months ago to blame?
the 17 and 18 decline in the NFL, which coincides with the protests are far larger than other sports. You link above are noting that these sports declined in the years before the protests.
But don't you see what you're doing (as is MU82). Your political ideology WANTS the decline in the NFL to have nothing to do with the protests so you will stop at no rationalization so you can conclude that taking a knee is irrelevant.
As Lenny said .... Occam's razor.
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the 17 and 18 decline in the NFL, which coincides with the protests are far larger than other sports. You link above are noting that these sports declined in the years before the protests.
But don't you see what you're doing (as is MU82). Your political ideology WANTS the decline in the NFL to have nothing to do with the protests so you will stop at no rationalization so you can conclude that taking a knee is irrelevant.
As Lenny said .... Occam's razor.
These guys are the same that are giving credit to Obama for the current economic success. This is good. As long as they deny the truth the better we'll be in the long run.
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But don't you see what you're doing (as is MU82). Your political ideology WANTS the decline in the NFL to have nothing to do with the protests so you will stop at no rationalization so you can conclude that taking a knee is irrelevant.
You literally are denying facts because they run counter to your ideological narrative, and then come up with this statement.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-S3ABmxhMHxY/TqoTPHKJmxI/AAAAAAAACIU/tVi6xjYUloE/s1600/Irony_Meter.gif)
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the 17 and 18 decline in the NFL, which coincides with the protests are far larger than other sports. You link above are noting that these sports declined in the years before the protests.
But don't you see what you're doing (as is MU82). Your political ideology WANTS the decline in the NFL to have nothing to do with the protests so you will stop at no rationalization so you can conclude that taking a knee is irrelevant.
As Lenny said .... Occam's razor.
You were the one that was wrong.
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Please cease with points that are cogent and logical. People aren't interested in the truth when it conflicts with their politics/biases.
Lenny just called a Chicos post cogent and logical. Someone check for airborne swine.
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OK, but let's at least be honest. Injuries? There are injuries every year. Fans who don't watch because their "fave" is hurt (like Hards) are anomalies. Netflix and other "choices"? You can watch those shows/movies anytime. People aren't giving up watching live sports for that. CTE? I'll grant this has some effect, but it's not exactly a new issue. The new, big issue fans have with the NFL is on the job political protests by its players. Whether you agree with the majority of NFL fans or the players involved in the protests is beside the point - they are the biggest (by miles) reason for fan dissatisfaction with the NFL.
On the bolded, I'm one person, but I absolutely am giving up live sports in favor of Netflix and other streaming services. It used to be that I would just have any live sporting event on the TV when I was home. It didn't matter who was playing or what sport. I could always jump in and enjoy that one game. I only watched maybe one or two TV shows religiously because I couldn't dedicate specific hours of the evening every week in order to keep up with the show. Now that I can watch whatever I want whenever I want? I never watch random sporting events anymore. I don't watch multiple NFL games anymore. I watch Marquette, the Packers, and the Bucks/Brewers if there's a national broadcast. And I'll watch the playoffs....though honestly I didn't watch the NBA playoffs after the Bucks were eliminated until the championship and I only watched the World Series, not any of the games leading up to it. I do watch random college basketball games sometimes. That's my favorite sport and its entertainment value to me outweighs Netflix.....random games of other sports? Nah, I'd rather watch my favorite TV shows.
But I think the greater point with Netflix (and other streaming services) is that people are now cordcutting because of it. I'm an avid sports fan but I got rid of cable and just got Sling TV to watch the few sporting events I care about. Most people who are cutting the cord aren't doing it because of ESPN, but ESPN is disproportionately affected because that channel adds more to the cable bill than any other channel.
ESPN is dying the death of a 1000 cuts. The anthem protests is one of those cuts....but I doubt its even close to the largest one. Its just the one everyone likes to focus on.
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the 17 and 18 decline in the NFL, which coincides with the protests are far larger than other sports. You link above are noting that these sports declined in the years before the protests.
But don't you see what you're doing (as is MU82). Your political ideology WANTS the decline in the NFL to have nothing to do with the protests so you will stop at no rationalization so you can conclude that taking a knee is irrelevant.
As Lenny said .... Occam's razor.
Both of you are using Occam's razor wrong.
You're creating a convoluted narrative to fit the facts... Rather than looking at the trend and realizing that the NFL has over-saturated the market, and has been losing viewership for years.
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Does anyone have stats on Fantasy Sports? I used to be an avid player and that resulted in my Sunday's being taken up by football. Now that I'm a little older, with more responsibility, I'm barely watching any games that aren't the Packers.
It may just be a personal story and not a trend, but I was curious if the fantasy bubble has kind of popped.
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Buying Papa John's, Dominoes, Little Caesars, etc for my guests/friends?
What an insult to them. Simply says "cheapskate".
I would never touch any of these, ever!
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NASCAR ratings are down in 2017.
Fans don't like the point system set-up.
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Lenny just called a Chicos post cogent and logical. Someone check for airborne swine.
Wow. Lenny is a good poster.
Might be time for an intervention!!
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Does anyone have stats on Fantasy Sports? I used to be an avid player and that resulted in my Sunday's being taken up by football. Now that I'm a little older, with more responsibility, I'm barely watching any games that aren't the Packers.
It may just be a personal story and not a trend, but I was curious if the fantasy bubble has kind of popped.
My personal opinion is that numbers are up, but that's just an opinion.
However, I think this is one more of the myriad of reasons viewership is down. The games don't matter anymore - it's only about the numbers.
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Fans don't like the point system set-up.
They've been falling for years.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/yum-ceo-nfl-protests-havent-hurt-pizza-huts-sales-2017-11
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Column today about how ESPN might just decide to drop NFL broadcasting all together when the currents rights deal expires.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/why-espn-could-abandon-nfl-football-guest-column-1052792
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What about not following the flag code? If it's so disrespectful to have a peaceful protest during the anthem, I bet you hold the flag code in highest respect and wouldn't tolerate anyone disparaging it, right?
I’m talking about the national anthem, while being played before games. Once again, focus!
As far as disallowing anyone to protest? Ummm, no! Once again, Decorum during the national anthem. They can protest their ya-ya’s off out in front of the stadium, where ever. How about this one then? What if they protested at a memorial for MLK? Let them handle that one. Let them protest during an LGBT event
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I’m talking about the national anthem, while being played before games. Once again, focus!
Could we have a list of instances when you believe it is OK to disrespect the flag and when it is not?
As far as disallowing anyone to protest? Ummm, no! Once again, Decorum during the national anthem. They can protest their ya-ya’s off out in front of the stadium, where ever. How about this one then? What if they protested at a memorial for MLK? Let them handle that one. Let them protest during an LGBT event
Protests of MLK would never happen ... well, except when entire states refused to acknowledge the national holiday in his honor.
Same with during an LGBT event ... well, except when anti-gay protestors show up routinely at pride parades.
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I’m talking about the national anthem, while being played before games. Once again, focus!
As far as disallowing anyone to protest? Ummm, no! Once again, Decorum during the national anthem. They can protest their ya-ya’s off out in front of the stadium, where ever. How about this one then? What if they protested at a memorial for MLK? Let them handle that one. Let them protest during an LGBT event
So, instead of deflecting, would you like to answer my question now?
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Could we have a list of instances when you believe it is OK to disrespect the flag and when it is not?
Definitely OK when used as a backdrop while grabbing your daughter's a$$
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My wife just announced that we are boycotting Papa John's. So proud. ;D
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So, instead of deflecting, would you like to answer my question now?
Didn't you know, you can only protest at designated times in designated locations, comrade?
Hope this didn't need teal
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My wife just announced that we are boycotting Papa John's. So proud. ;D
Man up, Tower. That's your decision to make :-\
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I have veto power. I only use it to avoid getting a pet. This amuses me. And it shows that loyal customers can react negatively when public figures whine and/or take a stand the customer doesn't like. Right?
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So, instead of deflecting, would you like to answer my question now?
you are the one deflecting-we are discussing protests during the national anthem. then you ask about flag code and if i follow the code absolutely to the "T" or something. once again...i'm talking about the national anthem. if you want to discuss everyone's personal attitudes toward and decorum, that would be another topic with when did you stop beating your wife ;)
"peaceful protests"? i'd love for all protests to be peaceful...just not during the national anthem-simple.
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Could we have a list of instances when you believe it is OK to disrespect the flag and when it is not?
Protests of MLK would never happen ... well, except when entire states refused to acknowledge the national holiday in his honor.
Same with during an LGBT event ... well, except when anti-gay protestors show up routinely at pride parades.
i see what you're doing there-
but re:protests during MLK or LGBT events? well what if i'm upset with the people disrespecting the national anthem and choose those events all over the nation to protest? fair is fair, eyn'a? might as well fill in the blank with any other event opposing the "other side" and i'm bringing a jimmy johns truck with me
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Psssst....you messed up the punch line. Papa Johns, not Jimmy Johns, rocket surgeon.
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My wife just announced that we are boycotting Papa John's. So proud. ;D
Huh, I guess I've been boycotting Papa John's since college
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/43d382ae47be5d40ec3a8581328fedd1/tumblr_mrvsvatiM91qjptfbo1_500.gif)
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Rocket, what if someone wanted to honor fallen soldiers by kneeling during the anthem? Would that be acceptable?
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i see what you're doing there-
but re:protests during MLK or LGBT events? well what if i'm upset with the people disrespecting the national anthem and choose those events all over the nation to protest? fair is fair, eyn'a? might as well fill in the blank with any other event opposing the "other side" and i'm bringing a jimmy johns truck with me
Well that is your right as an American citizen to go do that protest, and while I may disagree with how you are doing it, I believe you have that right, and have it not be infringed upon. Also, I would the President would not call your mom a bitch if he didn't like it, and demand that you lose your job over it.
Honestly.
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Rocket, what if someone wanted to honor fallen soldiers by kneeling during the anthem? Would that be acceptable?
Key word-honor. Also, typically when that is done, they will announce it as a moment of silence before or after the anthem. At least that’s how I’ve experienced an moment of honor. So what are these athletes honoring today?
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Psssst....you messed up the punch line. Papa Johns, not Jimmy Johns, rocket surgeon.
Wait, no wonder mine is always late and cold...damn! ;D
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you are the one deflecting-we are discussing protests during the national anthem. then you ask about flag code and if i follow the code absolutely to the "T" or something. once again...i'm talking about the national anthem. if you want to discuss everyone's personal attitudes toward and decorum, that would be another topic with when did you stop beating your wife ;)
"peaceful protests"? i'd love for all protests to be peaceful...just not during the national anthem-simple.
Wrong. Here's your original post that I quoted:
The anthem stands for something to MOST people. On the field, there is a decorum that is expected during the anthem, God bless America, presenting of the colors, a moment of silence for someone, etc. not acting within that decorum is considered disrespectful-period. Whatever it is that they claim they are doing is backfiring. The commish and the owners did not lead when this first started out and this is what happens. I don’t care if 50%(and that’s very high and generous) agree with it. You just lost the other half of your audience/ customers-not many businesses can afford to do that very often
I bolded the important part. You included much, much more than just the national anthem in your example of when there is to be "decorum" and if people do not act "with that that decorum" it "is considered disrespectul." In fact, you even explicitly mention presenting of the colors. That is literally the flag itself.
Adhering to the flag code should be part of that process that you state is so important. If someone stood before a game and altered the national anthem, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't think that was very respectful.
So, because you brought up that the whole pomp and circumstance of the important moments before/during games or whenever they present in life.... do you think adherence to the flag code is important? It's a simple yes or no.
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Third verse of the avowed racist Francis Scott Key's poem:
And where is that band who so vauntingly swore,
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a Country should leave us no more?
Their blood has wash'd out their foul footstep's pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave,
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.
No wonder our Racist In Chief (and his sheeple) thinks it is the holy song.
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Key word-honor. Also, typically when that is done, they will announce it as a moment of silence before or after the anthem. At least that’s how I’ve experienced an moment of honor. So what are these athletes honoring today?
I was just curious if it was the act of kneeling or the message behind the kneeling that was bothering you.
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I hope Jen Lada makes the cut, hey?
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I was just curious if it was the act of kneeling or the message behind the kneeling that was bothering you.
Kaepernick went from sitting to taking a knee at the suggestion of a Green Beret last year:
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-how-nate-boyer-got-colin-kaepernick-to-go-from-sitting-to-kneeling/
In the 49ers' final preseason game, backup quarterback Colin Kaepernick decided to kneel for the national anthem instead of taking a seat on the bench.
Turns out it was former Seahawks player and Green Beret Nate Boyer who talked Kap into making the change. Boyer wrote an open letter to Kaepernick earlier this season, and it caused the two to meet up and discuss America and honoring the anthem.
On the upcoming episode of HBO's "Real Sports With Bryant Gumbel" (airing Tuesday night at 10 p.m. ET), Boyer reveals what happened in the discussion between the two men.
"We sorta came to a middle ground where he would take a knee alongside his teammates," Boyer says. "Soldiers take a knee in front of a fallen brother's grave, you know, to show respect. When we're on a patrol, you know, and we go into a security halt, we take a knee, and we pull security."
Asked by Gumbel if Kap was "receptive" to his ideas, Boyer described him as "very receptive."
"Very receptive. He said, 'I think that would be-- I think-- I think that would be really powerful,'" Boyer recalls. "And, you know, he asked me to do it with him. And I said, 'Look, I'll stand next to you. I gotta stand though. I gotta stand with my hand on my heart. That's just-- that's just what I do and where I'm from.'"
The two met and took a picture together, but Boyer wasn't willing to take a knee.
Boyer also got called many names for his decision to stand next to Kaepernick during the anthem.
Only dipshytes like You Know Who suggest that Kaepernick is being disrespectful of the military or of veterans. The truth is, a veteran suggested he do it - and then got shyte from some true "patriots" for it.
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http://www.businessinsider.com/yum-ceo-nfl-protests-havent-hurt-pizza-huts-sales-2017-11
Hmmm...so Pizza hut, which started a vigorous price war with Papa John's this year, is doing fine, but Papa John's who was late to compete in the price war lost business.
Isn't that how economics is supposed to work?
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I still don't get the God Bless America thing. I ain't doin' it for no one.
God isn't ours to claim, Unbeknownst to "christians" in America, we are all God's children everywhere.
If they want to change it to God Bless the World, I will be all in.
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Hmmm...so Pizza hut, which started a vigorous price war with Papa John's this year, is doing fine, but Papa John's who was late to compete in the price war lost business.
Isn't that how economics is supposed to work?
Again, maybe pizza eaters are boycotting the douchenozzle who owns Papa John's.
And I'm with brand ... there is zero chance of me standing during God Bless America.
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Hmmm...so Pizza hut, which started a vigorous price war with Papa John's this year, is doing fine, but Papa John's who was late to compete in the price war lost business.
Isn't that how economics is supposed to work?
No. It's how disrespecting 'Murica and the flag and the soldiers is effecting Papa John's stock price
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Again, maybe pizza eaters are boycotting the douchenozzle who owns Papa John's.
And I'm with brand ... there is zero chance of me standing during God Bless America.
Papa Johns was started during that Reagan administration and from then until week 1 of this NFL season his politics were a non-issue. And now, coincidentally, his personal politics is now hurting sales and he is using as an excuse falling NFL ratings. Nevermind Papa Johns is the official pizza sponsors of 23 NFL teams, the official sponsor of the NFL league and pays Payton Manning more than you'll make in your lifetime to hawk Pizzas on TV. Yes, this guy is in no position to comment on the NFL ratings.
Meanwhile, Pizza Hut, who is not an NFL sponsor in any way is not being affected and that is proof the guy that sponsors 23 NFL teams doesn't know what he talking about. This the same Pizza Hut that acknowledged they are falling behind both Papa Johns and Dominos because they don't even have an app yet, is owned by the Chinese (Yum Brands) and embroiled in lawsuits for paying drivers under minimum wage.
Yes, because when lefties like you reject Papa Johns because of the owners' politics you go with a company that plays under minimum wage to get you pie delivered.
Oh, and I suppose the reason that CBS stock is down is their owners politics too? CBS' stock is down and they said it was falling NFL ratings. Ditto Disney because their stock is also down and they also cited falling NFL ratings.
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you are the one deflecting-we are discussing protests during the national anthem. then you ask about flag code and if i follow the code absolutely to the "T" or something. once again...i'm talking about the national anthem. if you want to discuss everyone's personal attitudes toward and decorum, that would be another topic with when did you stop beating your wife ;)
"peaceful protests"? i'd love for all protests to be peaceful...just not during the national anthem-simple.
The entire idea of a protest is that it is inconvenient. Where and when do you suggest they protest? At home, in their lawns on a Tuesday? Would that be at all effective?
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Papa Johns was started during that Reagan administration and from then until week 1 of this NFL season his politics were a non-issue. And now, coincidentally, his personal politics is now hurting sales and he is using as an excuse falling NFL ratings. Nevermind Papa Johns is the official pizza sponsors of 23 NFL teams, the official sponsor of the NFL league and pays Payton Manning more than you'll make in your lifetime to hawk Pizzas on TV. Yes, this guy is in no position to comment on the NFL ratings.
More like 2012, when he was crying about having to pay for his employees health insurance as a result of the ACA. Have you seen Papa John's commercials not during a football game? MAYBE he shouldn't have used all of his TV ad time in one place... especially one with a downward trending market! But I guess, if you want to blame someone, its right out of his playbook to blame the poor and the oppressed. Payton Manning is a part owner so John doesn't have to pay him. Its almost as if you enjoy talking completely out of your ass all of the time.
Meanwhile, Pizza Hut, who is not an NFL sponsor in any way is not being affected and that is proof the guy that sponsors 23 NFL teams doesn't know what he talking about. This the same Pizza Hut that acknowledged they are falling behind both Papa Johns and Dominos because they don't even have an app yet, is owned by the Chinese (Yum Brands) and embroiled in lawsuits for paying drivers under minimum wage.
I don't care if Pizza Hut is an NFL sponsor. Why the hell should anyone care? There are Pizza Hut commercials during football games. Also, YUM! Brands is not a Chinese company. They are an American company based in Lexington, KY. Sure, a entirely separate company named YUM! China spun off from the original about a year ago... But if you were being honest, you already knew that... it just didn't fit the narrative you were trying to espouse. The lawsuit you are referring to affected 130 drivers... so it was more than likely one franchise owner acting out of line since I'm pretty sure that Pizza Hut employs more than 130 drivers total.
ADDITIONALLY, Pizzza Hut DOES have an app... I know this because all I had to do was type in "PIZZA HUT" into my google play on my phone. Its like you aren't even trying, you clod.
Yes, because when lefties like you reject Papa Johns because of the owners' politics you go with a company that plays under minimum wage to get you pie delivered.
Oh, and I suppose the reason that CBS stock is down is their owners politics too? CBS' stock is down and they said it was falling NFL ratings. Ditto Disney because their stock is also down and they also cited falling NFL ratings.
I reject their pizza because the crust is soft and floppy, and the cheese falls off when you try to take a bite. Plus it tastes like a hangover feels; AWFUL. I rarely buy chain pizza because I have taste buds and I don't hate my colon.
CBS and ABC stock is down because they also make bad TV shows and network TV market shares have been declining for years.
Stop trying to fool people with your specific line of BS, because no one here will buy it if you are this sloppy.
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I was just curious if it was the act of kneeling or the message behind the kneeling that was bothering you.
Or was it the fist in the air? Or was it the fist in the air while kneeling? Message? Which message is it today? Look, what they are doing during the national anthem is purposely provocative and the wrong place to do it, that’s all. No one is saying they CANNOT express their “outrage of the day” but not during the national anthem before the people gathered in their workplace to see them perform. They are hijacking their boss’s paying customers and laying a turd down during a short ceremony that most people understand and respect for allowing us to gather.
You can’t just protest anywhere? As I’ve been saying, take the protest to the LGBT convention or MLK memorials, spread the word
Can you protest in your office?
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Meh. Ratings have been declining for years.
Except, that is a false statement. NFL ratings in 2015 were up over 2014. https://www.si.com/more-sports/2016/01/10/media-circus-nfl-playoff-ratings-espn-nbc-cbs
And 2014 ratings were better than 2013. http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/network-press-releases/nfl-2014-tv-recap-202-million-viewers-game-viewership-nearly-triples-broadcast-primetime/348433/
And 2013 ratings were better than 2012 http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/network-press-releases/nfl-2013-tv-recap-205-million-fans-tuned-in-34-of-35-most-watched-shows-this-fall/227726/
Ratings fell last year big. The election was blamed. This year, ratings fall again. People are blaming Thursday Night football? TNF has existed for many years, just now it's a thing? How does one explain the sudden drop in Game Pass subscriptions THIS YEAR at NFL or Direct TV Sunday Ticket subscriptions THIS YEAR? Coincidence? No.
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NASCAR ratings are down in 2017. Is that politics related as well? Also, the NFL players are not engaged in a political protest.
Then again, people aren't interested in the truth when it conflicts with their politics/biases.
NASCAR ratings have been down 5 straight years. NFL ratings were up 2013, 2014, 2015, down in 2016, down in 2017. Not exactly comparing properly. NFL is also down in other areas, paid subscriptions, merchandise. There are other issues in play, but it amazes me how many want to pretend the protests don't impact. Read some of the comments on this board to last year and a few months ago and there were people here that stunningly said zero impact by the protests and anthem. How absurd.
And yes, some are engaged in political protest. How else do you define it? Do their own words not matter? What is taking a knee to bring awareness to what they believe is a societal issue except a political protest?
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The entire idea of a protest is that it is inconvenient. Where and when do you suggest they protest? At home, in their lawns on a Tuesday? Would that be at all effective?
Where and when? On their own dime
At home in their lawns on a Tuesday? Sure
Would that be at all effective? I don’t care.
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Or was it the fist in the air? Or was it the fist in the air while kneeling? Message? Which message is it today? Look, what they are doing during the national anthem is purposely provocative and the wrong place to do it, that’s all. No one is saying they CANNOT express their “outrage of the day” but not during the national anthem before the people gathered in their workplace to see them perform. They are hijacking their boss’s paying customers and laying a turd down during a short ceremony that most people understand and respect for allowing us to gather.
You can’t just protest anywhere? As I’ve been saying, take the protest to the LGBT convention or MLK memorials, spread the word
Can you protest in your office?
"Hi! I am a white man telling you black people how and when to protest racial injustice. I hope you take my advice to heart."
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The entire idea of a protest is that it is inconvenient. Where and when do you suggest they protest? At home, in their lawns on a Tuesday? Would that be at all effective?
That is true, but that doesn't mean you get to do it on your employers time. Most of us if we decided to protest with picket signs or whatever at work on our time would be fired.
If it was such a great idea what they are doing, why are the networks pulling back on showing the national anthem now? Why are they not showing the players kneeling? Are the networks anti-player?
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Again, maybe pizza eaters are boycotting the douchenozzle who owns Papa John's.
And I'm with brand ... there is zero chance of me standing during God Bless America.
LOL. How absurd. This is the year they decided to do this? This is ALSO the year fans decided to cut Game Pass subscriptions, cut Direct TV NFL Package. This is also the year fans decided to buy less merchandise and burn stuff they had. This is the year, what a coincidence, nothing propelled them to do it.
Your last statement, I have to tell you that is why a certain person won a big election because for most people in this country, they believe you stand for the National Anthem and GBA. For the same reason you would stand for the Canadian Anthem or any other anthem, out of respect. You are playing into your favorite politician's hands by doing and saying what you are going to do, and the funny thing is you don't even realize it. RESIST!!! ;)
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That is true, but that doesn't mean you get to do it on your employers time. Most of us if we decided to protest with picket signs or whatever at work on our time would be fired.
So what? I get to wear jeans to work. At other places that would be a dress code violation.
Not every workplace has the same rules.
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So what? I get to wear jeans to work. At other places that would be a dress code violation.
Not every workplace has the same rules.
The NFL's own rules say players should stand for the national anthem, they just aren't enforcing it. So if you want to talk about rules.
And if you wore jeans at other places where it is a dress code violation, there would be a punishment. That's the problem, the NFL hasn't done anything of the kind, and they are suffering for it.
You are also making the wrong comparison, but whatever. End of the day, this is hurting the NFL badly. Jerry Jones emphatically said last week how bad this hurts the NFL, one would think he would know as well as anyone on the globe. Ultimately that trickles down to the players and it will stop or the league will be only relevant to pockets of individuals. Their call.
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Among the few things more quintessentially American than these acts are...the act of protest. Cf. all of American history.
The fact that people - typically older white guys, who seem to be the angriest people around - try to legislate how and when black people can protest only validates the point of their protest in the first place.
Playing the race card, how am I not surprised.
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Ratings peaked in 2013. 2014 and 2015 showed moderate dips. In 2016 (Kaps 1st protest year, the pig/cop socks, etc.) they fell hard. As many joined the protests in 2017 the ratings continue to fall hard. Occam's Razor.
Not true, ratings were up in each of those years.
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That is true, but that doesn't mean you get to do it on your employers time. Most of us if we decided to protest with picket signs or whatever at work on our time would be fired.
If it was such a great idea what they are doing, why are the networks pulling back on showing the national anthem now? Why are they not showing the players kneeling? Are the networks anti-player?
So then the owners should fire them. But they can't because they are powerless. So it will continue. I don't understand your point.
If anyone is to blame for making the National Anthem protests a huge deal it is the media... including the broadcasts that have a recap of who did and who did not kneel during the NA.
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2017/10/10/here-are-the-2017-mlb-prime-time-television-ratings-for-each-team/#12fcd29d3799
Overall, league ratings in prime time were down -6% compared to last season with the Detroit Tigers (down -38%) leading the way in ratings drag from the year prior.
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/nba-regular-season-ratings-1202031083/
ABC, ESPN, and TNT saw NBA viewership decline slightly in the 2016-17 regular season, the first covered under a multi-billion-dollar contract extension between the league and its television partners that reaches through 2024-25.
National NBA telecasts across the three channels and cable network NBA TV averaged 1.19 million total viewers for the season ending on Wednesday — down 6% from the 2015-16 season, but even with the average from 2014-15. Under a new television deal, the three networks combined to broadcast 19 more games than last season.
Those are local ratings, not national ratings. Poor comparison. Look at the national ratings. Also look at the 5 year trend, it looks much different than what is happening to the NFL right now, because baseball isn't taking a knee except for one guy who is now been charged with pointing a gun at a woman for delivering his food to him apparently in the wrong way.
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The NFL's own rules say players should stand for the national anthem, they just aren't enforcing it. So if you want to talk about rules.
And if you wore jeans at other places where it is a dress code violation, there would be a punishment. That's the problem, the NFL hasn't done anything of the kind, and they are suffering for it.
You are also making the wrong comparison, but whatever. End of the day, this is hurting the NFL badly. Jerry Jones emphatically said last week how bad this hurts the NFL, one would think he would know as well as anyone on the globe. Ultimately that trickles down to the players and it will stop or the league will be only relevant to pockets of individuals. Their call.
As I said earlier...good. I hope it hurts Jerry. I think he is blind to many of the reasons, but whatever.
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I apologize. I just assumed it was a new account for our friend chicos/4or5. I was kind of correct. Seems he renamed 4or5 to this new "McPherson".
MU82 seems to be naming people different names, so in his honor I will continue stand for the national anthem, stand out of respect for God Bless America and will continue to do so and adopted one of his names. Smuggles seemed to be available, Yogi and some other ones.
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Wrong. Here's your original post that I quoted:
I bolded the important part. You included much, much more than just the national anthem in your example of when there is to be "decorum" and if people do not act "with that that decorum" it "is considered disrespectul." In fact, you even explicitly mention presenting of the colors. That is literally the flag itself.
Adhering to the flag code should be part of that process that you state is so important. If someone stood before a game and altered the national anthem, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't think that was very respectful.
So, because you brought up that the whole pomp and circumstance of the important moments before/during games or whenever they present in life.... do you think adherence to the flag code is important? It's a simple yes or no.
I was using those other events as examples, but not to deflect, I believe there is an appropriate decorum to the flag during those events just as there is and should be a certain decorum during funerals , weddings, memorials, etc. they each have their own solomnity or formality if you will. Interrupting any of these will produce a reaction of some sort. Let’s just call it kaepernicks thingy, regardless of how they want to portray it, is wrong-simple.
I don’t know how many ways some of you want to skin this cat, but bottom line-it’s not the athletes right to do what they are doing where they are doing it. If the owners and the commish had any testicles, they would start suspending them. Set the rule and enforce it
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I was using those other events as examples, but not to deflect, I believe there is an appropriate decorum to the flag during those events just as there is and should be a certain decorum during funerals , weddings, memorials, etc. they each have their own solomnity or formality if you will. Interrupting any of these will produce a reaction of some sort. Let’s just call it kaepernicks thingy, regardless of how they want to portray it, is wrong-simple.
I don’t know how many ways some of you want to skin this cat, but bottom line-it’s not the athletes right to do what they are doing where they are doing it. If the owners and the commish had any testicles, they would start suspending them. Set the rule and enforce it
Rule already exists, they simply aren't enforcing it. Goodell has no testicles and he is in jeopardy of not being renewed as commissioner, but more likely will but with different contractual terms then he had only last month in his extension.
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Yeah, i don't buy the not on your employers time arguement. Is there any other workplace in this country outside of professional sports that forces their employees into participating in the star spangled banner? Participating in the anthem is a political action. I don't think employers have the right to make their employees do that. It's very unamerican
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"Hi! I am a white man telling you black people how and when to protest racial injustice. I hope you take my advice to heart."
And the race card comes out again. Always by the same folks. Clarence Thomas made some very poignant comments the other day that we simply can't have conversation in this country anymore without others labeling each other as racist, misogynistic, or whatever. Honest debate cannot happen anymore, which is extremely unfortunate and will eventually destroy the country.
It also gets people elected that the very folks making these absurd claims don't want. Why? Because people that aren't racist but being labeled as racist don't like it, and they vote, and they push back. Maybe that will sink in at some point.
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As I said earlier...good. I hope it hurts Jerry. I think he is blind to many of the reasons, but whatever.
I agree with this. Isn't it in Jerry's best interest to blame the protests rather than admitting the product is going downhill. The protests play a part, but I'm not sure I'd say it's the biggest reason. Maybe it's the straw that broke the camels back.
Between CTE, Ray Rice, and deflate gate, the NFL has rarely been in the news for a positive thing. It may be that people are just tired of it and this is the year they stopped watching.
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So then the owners should fire them. But they can't because they are powerless. So it will continue. I don't understand your point.
If anyone is to blame for making the National Anthem protests a huge deal it is the media... including the broadcasts that have a recap of who did and who did not kneel during the NA.
All the owners have to do is enforce the rules. If you violate the rules, you are suspended, fined, cut, whatever. You want to protest, do it all day on your time. People want to watch football to escape the every day politics that creep into our lives, sports is an escape. The NFL is not powerless, they choose to do what they are doing and they are reaping what they sow.
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As I said earlier...good. I hope it hurts Jerry. I think he is blind to many of the reasons, but whatever.
Fine by me, but it also hurts the players. Ultimately will hurt them much more and in a much bigger percentage. But whatever.
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Yeah, i don't buy the not on your employers time arguement. Is there any other workplace in this country outside of professional sports that forces their employees into participating in the star spangled banner? Participating in the anthem is a political action. I don't think employers have the right to make their employees do that. It's very unamerican
At the Olympics playing the anthem is a political action? Come on.
Are you gobsmacked at players getting together at the end of the game in a circle to pray after the game, sometimes shown on tv? That stadium was almost certainly built with public money and some fans could be offended, should that be stopped immediately?
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And the race card comes out again. Always by the same folks. Clarence Thomas made some very poignant comments the other day that we simply can't have conversation in this country anymore without others labeling each other as racist, misogynistic, or whatever. Honest debate cannot happen anymore, which is extremely unfortunate and will eventually destroy the country.
It also gets people elected that the very folks making these absurd claims don't want. Why? Because people that aren't racist but being labeled as racist don't like it, and they vote, and they push back. Maybe that will sink in at some point.
Oh God. The “people who point out racism are responsible for Trump” line. Yes. The poor who’re people of the world. So oppressed.
And I’m not playing the “race card.” It’s a protest about racial injustice. Race is inherent in the discussion.
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All the owners have to do is enforce the rules. If you violate the rules, you are suspended, fined, cut, whatever. You want to protest, do it all day on your time. People want to watch football to escape the every day politics that creep into our lives, sports is an escape. The NFL is not powerless, they choose to do what they are doing and they are reaping what they sow.
Please stop it with "the rules". It has been mentioned several times in this thread that it is NOT in the "rules". The NFL's rulebook says nothing about player conduct during the pre-game playing of the U.S. national anthem.
The actual rules states: Both teams must be on the field to kick off at the scheduled time for the start of each half. Prior to the start of the game, both teams are required to appear on the field at least 10 minutes prior to the scheduled kickoff in order to ensure sufficient time for proper warm-up. Designated members of the officiating crew must notify both head coaches personally of the scheduled time for kickoff prior to the start of each half.
You, like many, are confused by the NFL game operations manual (which league spokesman Brian McCarthy described as a “policy” rather than a “rule”) which does state:
‘The National Anthem must be played prior to every NFL game, and all players must be on the sideline for the National Anthem.
‘During the National Anthem, players on the field and bench area should stand at attention, face the flag, hold helmets in their left hand, and refrain from talking. The home team should ensure that the American flag is in good condition. It should be pointed out to players and coaches that we continue to be judged by the public in this area of respect for the flag and our country. Failure to be on the field by the start of the National Anthem may result in discipline, such as fines, suspensions, and/or the forfeiture of draft choice(s) for violations of the above, including first offenses.’
Note the use of "should" and "may" not "must" and "will".
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I agree with this. Isn't it in Jerry's best interest to blame the protests rather than admitting the product is going downhill. The protests play a part, but I'm not sure I'd say it's the biggest reason. Maybe it's the straw that broke the camels back.
Between CTE, Ray Rice, and deflate gate, the NFL has rarely been in the news for a positive thing. It may be that people are just tired of it and this is the year they stopped watching.
Or over-saturation.
http://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/cbs-sports-chairman-sean-mcmanus-reverses-stance-blames-dilution-saturation-nfl-ratings-dip.html
Last night was a great example. Too many flags. Too much poor play. It's a bad product right now. That's why Deshaun Watson's injury is so terrible. It takes one of the young players, who can REALLY play, out of the game. And gives you...Tom Savage. And the Texans will still have a decent shot at the playoffs in a conference where only three teams are two games over .500 or better.
College football is much more watchable. You don't need a great NFL-style passer to succeed.
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And the race card comes out again. Always by the same folks. Clarence Thomas made some very poignant comments the other day that we simply can't have conversation in this country anymore without others labeling each other as racist, misogynistic, or whatever. Honest debate cannot happen anymore, which is extremely unfortunate and will eventually destroy the country.
It also gets people elected that the very folks making these absurd claims don't want. Why? Because people that aren't racist but being labeled as racist don't like it, and they vote, and they push back. Maybe that will sink in at some point.
Jamie from Orange County on the case!
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"Hi! I am a white man telling you black people how and when to protest racial injustice. I hope you take my advice to heart."
How about "Hi! I'm a fellow human being warning you that staging political protests at your workplace hurts your league, your organization and eventually you. Many who would support your right to protest (and your cause) if you were doing this on your own time are becoming your former customers. I hope you take my advice to heart."
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Or over-saturation.
http://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/cbs-sports-chairman-sean-mcmanus-reverses-stance-blames-dilution-saturation-nfl-ratings-dip.html
Last night was a great example. Too many flags. Too much poor play. It's a bad product right now. That's why Deshaun Watson's injury is so terrible. It takes one of the young players, who can REALLY play, out of the game. And gives you...Tom Savage. And the Texans will still have a decent shot at the playoffs in a conference where only three teams are two games over .500 or better.
College football is much more watchable. You don't need a great NFL-style passer to succeed.
Welcome home, Sultan!
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How about "Hi! I'm a fellow human being warning you that staging political protests at your workplace hurts your league, your organization and eventually you. Many who would support your right to protest (and your cause) if you were doing this on your own time are becoming your former customers. I hope you take my advice to heart."
Thanks for whitesplaining it for me. I guess they are too dumb to understand what’s in their best interests.
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MU82 seems to be naming people different names, so in his honor I will continue stand for the national anthem, stand out of respect for God Bless America and will continue to do so and adopted one of his names. Smuggles seemed to be available, Yogi and some other ones.
Excellent choice of the first initial, Banny!
But the last name's McBannerson, not McPherson. Get it right!!
How desperate does a person have to be to get banned from a dopey interwebs site like ours and yet keep coming back time and time again? As your orange hero would say: "Sad!"
As for the yuuuge relationship between protests and ratings ...
As soon as one of you experts can explain why the ratings of a sport (NASCAR) that wraps itself around the flag like no other can keep going down, down, down - even though everybody involved in it disavowed those horrible NFLers and cast themselves as the true (white) patriots - I'll believe the relationship is significant.
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At the Olympics playing the anthem is a political action? Come on.
Of course it's a political action. I have no problem with a company choosing to play the national anthem. Companies make political actions all the time. I have a problem with a company forcing its employees to participate in it.
Are you gobsmacked at players getting together at the end of the game in a circle to pray after the game, sometimes shown on tv? That stadium was almost certainly built with public money and some fans could be offended, should that be stopped immediately?
Why would I have an issue with it? Individuals should always have the right to express their faith as long as it doesn't limit the rights of others.
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How about "Hi! I'm a fellow human being warning you that staging political protests at your workplace hurts your league, your organization and eventually you. Many who would support your right to protest (and your cause) if you were doing this on your own time are becoming your former customers. I hope you take my advice to heart."
I wouldn't be surprised if I could count the number of people who support the cause but are boycotting the NFL because of the protests on one hand.
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Or was it the fist in the air? Or was it the fist in the air while kneeling? Message? Which message is it today? Look, what they are doing during the national anthem is purposely provocative and the wrong place to do it, that’s all. No one is saying they CANNOT express their “outrage of the day” but not during the national anthem before the people gathered in their workplace to see them perform. They are hijacking their boss’s paying customers and laying a turd down during a short ceremony that most people understand and respect for allowing us to gather.
But you would be okay with someone doing something during the national anthem if it "honored" someone. What if instead of protesting racial injustice (which has been the consistent message, no matter what the flag disrespecter Tomi Lahren says), they said they wanted to honor those who lost their lives due to wrongful shootings by law enforcement?
You can’t just protest anywhere? As I’ve been saying, take the protest to the LGBT convention or MLK memorials, spread the word
Why do you keep bringing up LGBT conventions or MLK memorials?
Can you protest in your office?
I am a state actor so my rights are more limited than most. But if I was being forced to participate in the national anthem my office would support my right to opt out.
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Or over-saturation.
http://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/cbs-sports-chairman-sean-mcmanus-reverses-stance-blames-dilution-saturation-nfl-ratings-dip.html
Last night was a great example. Too many flags. Too much poor play. It's a bad product right now. That's why Deshaun Watson's injury is so terrible. It takes one of the young players, who can REALLY play, out of the game. And gives you...Tom Savage. And the Texans will still have a decent shot at the playoffs in a conference where only three teams are two games over .500 or better.
College football is much more watchable. You don't need a great NFL-style passer to succeed.
Instead of Watson, Rodgers, and Luck -- we get Savage, Hundley, and Brissett.
Yuk!!!
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How about "Hi! I'm a fellow human being warning you that staging political protests at your workplace hurts your league, your organization and eventually you. Many who would support your right to protest (and your cause) if you were doing this on your own time are becoming your former customers. I hope you take my advice to heart."
Nice try Lennie. So you really think those who are against black players protesting before NFL games are accepting of Black Lives Matter protests?
Hilarious!
OTOH, I haven't seen you post much lately - so it's good to have you back.
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LOL. How absurd. This is the year they decided to do this? This is ALSO the year fans decided to cut Game Pass subscriptions, cut Direct TV NFL Package. This is also the year fans decided to buy less merchandise and burn stuff they had. This is the year, what a coincidence, nothing propelled them to do it.
Your last statement, I have to tell you that is why a certain person won a big election because for most people in this country, they believe you stand for the National Anthem and GBA. For the same reason you would stand for the Canadian Anthem or any other anthem, out of respect. You are playing into your favorite politician's hands by doing and saying what you are going to do, and the funny thing is you don't even realize it. RESIST!!! ;)
This is the year my house started boycotting it. My wife became political over the last year. She was unaware of the Papa Johns CEO political views in 2012. I knew, cared, but since kids and wife liked their pizza, I didn't make an issue. It is an issue now.
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They've been falling for years.
Yep. Pretty much since the playoff format ruined racing. And I've been a huge fan since way before racing was on any TV. NASCAR blows now. And I watched Plymouth Superbirds in person so I know what I'm talking about.
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Playoff format, car of tomorrow, restrictor plates, the "old generation" retiring and being replaced with dozens of the same basic guy in a different uniform...
When Dick Trickle left, he took the whole sport down with him.
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Playoff format, car of tomorrow, restrictor plates, the "old generation" retiring and being replaced with dozens of the same basic guy in a different uniform...
When Dick Trickle left, he took the whole sport down with him.
But ... but ... but ... they're SOOOO patriotic!
One would think that every patriotic fan who leaves the NFL would be happy to stand up and cheer the patriotic (white male) competitors from NASCAR!!!
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It also gets people elected that the very folks making these absurd claims don't want. Why? Because people that aren't racist but being labeled as racist don't like it, and they vote, and they push back. Maybe that will sink in at some point.
This is circular.
That is probably the most charitable thing that can be said about it.
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http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/26/media/nfl-ratings-tv-networks/index.html?sr=twmoney102617nfl-ratings-tv-networks1105PMVODtopLink&linkId=43977442
"Through week seven, the NFL is down 5% overall from the same point last year. That's a troubling drop for the biggest ratings powerhouse on TV, but it seems less dire when you consider that the four major networks are down an average 8% in prime time.
NBC is down 4%, CBS is down 6%, ABC is down 11%, and Fox's prime time viewership dropped 20% through the first month of the new TV season, according to Nielsen data."
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But ... but ... but ... they're SOOOO patriotic!
One would think that every patriotic fan who leaves the NFL would be happy to stand up and cheer the patriotic (white male) competitors from NASCAR!!!
It actually has very little to do with it but I know you have your narrative so you go with that if you want.
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The ratings conversation is a great example of one of the problems dividing our country. I don't understand how ratings work. I have B McP. on one side saying the ratings are crashing just in the last two years. I have others saying the ratings have been declining for years. Lazer says they've been crashing this year, but not as badly as other networks. All three have provided articles backing up their points.
I'm assuming there are elements of truth to all three. There is probably one that is more true than the others. Hell, all three could be true but I just don't understand ratings enough to see it. But the existence of all this seemingly contradictory information puts the onus on me, the consumer, to either pick one of the viewpoints, or truly educate myself on ratings to get a better understanding of what is going on. Unfortunately, most Americans, on all sides of the political spectrum, are more likely to just pick the one that fits their narrative best and declare the others lies or fake news.
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The ratings conversation is a great example of one of the problems dividing our country. I don't understand how ratings work. I have B McP. on one side saying the ratings are crashing just in the last two years. I have others saying the ratings have been declining for years. Lazer says they've been crashing this year, but not as badly as other networks. All three have provided articles backing up their points.
I'm assuming there are elements of truth to all three. There is probably one that is more true than the others. Hell, all three could be true but I just don't understand ratings enough to see it. But the existence of all this seemingly contradictory information puts the onus on me, the consumer, to either pick one of the viewpoints, or truly educate myself on ratings to get a better understanding of what is going on. Unfortunately, most Americans, on all sides of the political spectrum, are more likely to just pick the one that fits their narrative best and declare the others lies or fake news.
And this is what Schnatter did. Blaming a "protest movement" that started 15 months ago is an easy cop out for a company that slings an inferior product.
Papa certainly wasn't going to drag his partner on their horrendous handling of the CTE issue or their astronomical pricing out of a typical American family or their incessant issues in the courtrooms of the country.
The quarterback from Wisconsin gave this business owner the kind of cover he needed to admit sales are sluggish without fully spooking his shareholders.
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Yeah, i don't buy the not on your employers time arguement. Is there any other workplace in this country outside of professional sports that forces their employees into participating in the star spangled banner? Participating in the anthem is a political action. I don't think employers have the right to make their employees do that. It's very unamerican
First of all, this is what it is about-the national anthem. You might be right about any other workplace...but that’s not what we have here. Let’s say an employer starts each day with a prayer? A meeting? Etc etc...if an employee(s) interrupt those with a protest, I’m sure they’d be thru the door before it even opened.
I don’t think we are going to get anywhere here-doesn’t look like we’ve changed anyone’s opinion on this, but I’m sure any of you out there who’ve disregarded your employee handbook have either quit by now or are forming some kind of protest I guess
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How about "Hi! I'm a fellow human being warning you that staging political protests at your workplace hurts your league, your organization and eventually you. Many who would support your right to protest (and your cause) if you were doing this on your own time are becoming your former customers. I hope you take my advice to heart."
This is one of the best and sums it up beautifully. These guys aren’t going to win. Maybe in the lefts mind and on principle, but they are hurting those in front of them and taking their future peers backwards. Kinda like a reverse tiger woods
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This is one of the best and sums it up beautifully. These guys aren’t going to win. Maybe in the lefts mind and on principle, but they are hurting those in front of them and taking their future peers backwards. Kinda like a reverse tiger woods
Yes. Uppity blacks need to learn their place.
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Yes. Uppity blacks need to learn their place.
Its fine, he doesn't grasp what any of this is about.
Its just about some ungrateful "non traditionals" disrespectin' the military!
He has zero perspective, and has no interest in seeking any.
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First of all, this is what it is about-the national anthem. You might be right about any other workplace...but that’s not what we have here. Let’s say an employer starts each day with a prayer? A meeting? Etc etc...if an employee(s) interrupt those with a protest, I’m sure they’d be thru the door before it even opened.
Let's use that example. An employer starts the workday with a prayer. Employee doesn't want to participate in said prayer. I think the equivalent "protest" in this situation would be that the employee doesn't do the sign of the cross/bow his head/fold his hands....instead the employee just sits there and does nothing. I think, but could be wrong, that if the employer told the employee that he was going to be fired if he didn't participate in the prayer and then carries the threat out....I'm pretty sure the employer gets the pants sued off him. That seems like an open/shut wrongful termination case.
Maybe the fact that we have called it a protest in the first place is the problem. When first asked why he didn't stand, Kaepernick never used the word protest. He said: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color". He didn't want to protest necessarily, he just doesn't want to participate in a ritual he doesn't believe in. He may have called it a protest since then, I don't know. But I don't think it is ever right to force someone to participate in the national anthem. That kind of forced patriotism seems extremely un-American to me. The best part about living in America is the freedom to disagree with America IMHO. But I can understand the argument that a protest or perceived protest hurts the bottom line and the NFL has a right to protect that bottom line.
What about this as a compromise? Allow players to choose whether or not they are on the field for the national anthem. If they are on the field, they must stand. If they are in the locker room they can do whatever they want but cannot come onto the field until the national anthem is over. It protects the players' right to opt out of the anthem if they so choose and addresses the fans' concerns about the flag being disrespected.
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........But I don't think it is ever right to force someone to participate in the national anthem. That kind of forced patriotism seems extremely un-American to me. The best part about living in America is the freedom to disagree with America IMHO. But I can understand the argument that a protest or perceived protest hurts the bottom line and the NFL has a right to protect that bottom line.......
The bolded is the bottom line for me. Forcing everyone to think or act the same is very anti USA and why i can't understand why people are so worked up about something that is a personal point of view and not something that harms or puts anyone else in harms way.
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Let's use that example. An employer starts the workday with a prayer. Employee doesn't want to participate in said prayer. I think the equivalent "protest" in this situation would be that the employee doesn't do the sign of the cross/bow his head/fold his hands....instead the employee just sits there and does nothing. I think, but could be wrong, that if the employer told the employee that he was going to be fired if he didn't participate in the prayer and then carries the threat out....I'm pretty sure the employer gets the pants sued off him. That seems like an open/shut wrongful termination case.
Maybe the fact that we have called it a protest in the first place is the problem. When first asked why he didn't stand, Kaepernick never used the word protest. He said: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color". He didn't want to protest necessarily, he just doesn't want to participate in a ritual he doesn't believe in. He may have called it a protest since then, I don't know. But I don't think it is ever right to force someone to participate in the national anthem. That kind of forced patriotism seems extremely un-American to me. The best part about living in America is the freedom to disagree with America IMHO. But I can understand the argument that a protest or perceived protest hurts the bottom line and the NFL has a right to protect that bottom line.
What about this as a compromise? Allow players to choose whether or not they are on the field for the national anthem. If they are on the field, they must stand. If they are in the locker room they can do whatever they want but cannot come onto the field until the national anthem is over. It protects the players' right to opt out of the anthem if they so choose and addresses the fans' concerns about the flag being disrespected.
Modify your example ...
The employee is in sales interfacing with clients. The employee is using their position with the company to preach or protest to customers of the company.
NFL players kneeling are subjecting the CUSTOMERS of the NFL to the protest. If they wanted to protest before the practice and subject and subject fellow employees to the protest then it would fit your example.
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I wouldn't be surprised if I could count the number of people who support the cause but are boycotting the NFL because of the protests on one hand.
Depends on what "the cause" is. If it's improving community/police relations by demanding that police be held responsible and accountable for the mistreatment (brutality, profiling, etc.) of people of color, sign me (and lots of others Tiny Tim would call "angry white guys") up. If "the cause" includes "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon!", "What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now!", "Hands up, don't shoot!", pigs in police uniforms on socks, etc., then not so much. I think the situation was decidedly polarized before many of the players joined in the protests, and both sides want to ignore the facts that are inconvenient but are driving two parallel but decidedly different realities.
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Modify your example ...
The employee is in sales interfacing with clients. The employee is using their position with the company to preach or protest to customers of the company.
NFL players kneeling are subjecting the CUSTOMERS of the NFL to the protest. If they wanted to protest before the practice and subject and subject fellow employees to the protest then it would fit your example.
I used the example that was provided for me. What if an employer insisted on starting all sales meetings with customers in the room with a prayer. What if an employee didn't participate in the prayer? The customers are subjected to this "protest." I still think an employer would be successfully sued for wrongful termination if he fired an employee for refusing to participate in a prayer in front of customers.
What do you think of my compromise? Do you think it would work?
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What about this as a compromise? Allow players to choose whether or not they are on the field for the national anthem. If they are on the field, they must stand. If they are in the locker room they can do whatever they want but cannot come onto the field until the national anthem is over. It protects the players' right to opt out of the anthem if they so choose and addresses the fans' concerns about the flag being disrespected.
This has been suggested by others and makes perfect sense. The side who embraces it wins the argument.
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This is the year my house started boycotting it. My wife became political over the last year. She was unaware of the Papa Johns CEO political views in 2012. I knew, cared, but since kids and wife liked their pizza, I didn't make an issue. It is an issue now.
The weird thing about the Papa Johns losing business argument, is Papa John is a big Trump supporter and vocal evangelical republican.
If you are to buy the "NFL protest hurting his business angle," you have to then believe that republican Trump supporters are either boycotting one of their own (Papa Johns) or are too stupid to be aware of his very vocal political leanings.
Or, just maybe, his blaming the NFL players is just another part of his very vocal Pro-Trump Pro-GOP beliefs and statements, and the decline in business has nothing to do with the NFL.
Instead it has everything to do with increased competition and price pressures from a aggressive campaign from Pizza Hut.
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Its fine, he doesn't grasp what any of this is about.
Its just about some ungrateful "non traditionals" disrespectin' the military!
He has zero perspective, and has no interest in seeking any.
So, according to you hards, if I don’t get in line and agree with your summation, along with all the others echoing your ideology, I’m all wrong, stupid, ignorant, insensitive and according to little Timmy, a racist as well. Did I miss any?
I’m going to go with we just have different opinions without malice and let’s see how this plays out
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I never said you were racist. Just that you are using typical white arguments to explain things to black people. It’s condescending.
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The weird thing about the Papa Johns losing business argument, is Papa John is a big Trump supporter and vocal evangelical republican.
If you are to buy the "NFL protest hurting his business angle," you have to then believe that republican Trump supporters are either boycotting one of their own (Papa Johns) or are too stupid to be aware of his very vocal political leanings.
Or, just maybe, his blaming the NFL players is just another part of his very vocal Pro-Trump Pro-GOP beliefs and statements, and the decline in business has nothing to do with the NFL.
Instead it has everything to do with increased competition and price pressures from a aggressive campaign from Pizza Hut.
Also remember that Jerry Jones is a big Papa Johns franchisee. So there's another reason why he is blaming the protests for his crappy pizza not selling.
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So, according to you hards, if I don’t get in line and agree with your summation, along with all the others echoing your ideology, I’m all wrong, stupid, ignorant, insensitive and according to little Timmy, a racist as well. Did I miss any?
I’m going to go with we just have different opinions without malice and let’s see how this plays out
Yes, you missed it all again.
This has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with my ideology or my summation. You won't bother to actually learn what the reasoning behind the protest is. You seem to decide for everyone that it is disrespectful to kneel for the National Anthem. But that isn't the point at all.
I can't tell if you are intentionally being obtuse, or if it is simply by accident.
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Yes, you missed it all again.
This has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing with my ideology or my summation. You won't bother to actually learn what the reasoning behind the protest is. You seem to decide for everyone that it is disrespectful to kneel for the National Anthem. But that isn't the point at all.
I can't tell if you are intentionally being obtuse, or if it is simply by accident.
But see, that’s one of the reasons why “protest” isn’t going very well-they don’t have a unified message. Not to mention, imho, it’s not right. So how you can you say that I won’t bothe to learn what the reasoning behind the protest is? Just that statement alone is condescending. Nothing obtuse about that. You’ve heard of the finger pointing thing, right? 4 back at ya?
Understand, depending on which poll you refer to, this issue is at least 50-50. My point is, there are strong opinions to both sides and only time is going to tell how this plays out. Unfortunately or not, I don’t think this board is going to have a say, but it is good to debate it. I need to hear your side, as well as others opposing viewpoints in order to understand it, but I don’t have to agree with it-peace!
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If you can’t understand the message now you are either dumb, willfully ignorant or too afraid to acknowledge what it is.
I’ve come to the conclusion that people claim they are upset about the kneeling but they really aren’t. They are upset because of the message behind it. It makes them uncomfortable because they know there is a problem but they don’t really want to deal with it. So they hide behind the “white racism” lines promoted by many here.
If a random white player was kneeling during the anthem three seasons ago, would it have even raised an eyebrow? Of course not.
People are upset about the message. Not the action. Cause if people were upset about the anthem, they wouldn’t treat it like an afterthought when at home sitting on their couch.
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Yes. Uppity blacks need to learn their place.
Sad this keeps being the go to by so many. We just can't have conversations anymore without this nonsense.
May I ask you a question, since you seem to imply someone that hasn't walked in someone else's shoes can't have an opinion any longer. Are women allowed to have comments about men since they aren't men? How about middle class people about the rich? Where does this race logic that is used start and end? Especially since many people, regardless of race, have been poor at one time in their lives and some for their entire life, yet the broad brush that you are painting with is odd. If you don't think these attitudes which are widely used in discussion these days do not influence how people vote and turn people off, you aren't paying attention in my opinion.
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Yes, pointing out he we are failing as a society and challenging to improve can cause some to vote to embrace those failings.
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Also remember that Jerry Jones is a big Papa Johns franchisee. So there's another reason why he is blaming the protests for his crappy pizza not selling.
Let's use common sense.
Papa John's sales were up in Q2 of '17 per their earnings report. Also up in Q1 of '17. And Q4 of '16. And Q3 of '16. I didn't go back further than that.
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x929076/6B0A8A3B-507B-46AC-A821-05EF1E8AF37F/Q4_2016_Press_Release_-_Final.pdf
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x940487/B63B6F31-67A1-4A23-BE25-664A101E5FDA/Q1_2017_Press_Release_-_Final.pdf
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x951830/A7F5E22F-1D57-4C4C-B2BB-C1451CF51DEB/PJI_Q2_2017_Press_Release_Final.pdf
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x961890/7DEAFE74-363E-4109-9370-869D15F2ABB6/Press_Release_-_Q3_2017_-_Final.pdf
What has changed? The pizza got crappy this quarter? The recipe changed? The founder just now said he was a Trump supporter (he has been a supporter since last year). Common sense time.
If you read the WSJ article and another by Barron's (I believe that was the publisher), people have boycotted brands like Papa John's, Ford, Budweiser, Direct Tv, ESPN, FOX, CBS, NBC and others because fans think it puts money in players pockets. They aren't wrong, but it also hurts the sales of the brand. This is why those companies are considering going in another direction. Papa John's clearly has made that decision.
The pizza is the same. The founder is the same. What changed is people are boycotting NFL and guess what two days are the most popular in pizza sales? Saturday and Sunday. If less football is watched, less need to buy pizza.
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The bolded is the bottom line for me. Forcing everyone to think or act the same is very anti USA and why i can't understand why people are so worked up about something that is a personal point of view and not something that harms or puts anyone else in harms way.
We still have rituals however, that doesn't mean we are forcing people to think or act the same way. We all have to file our federal taxes, at least the 55% that actually pay federal taxes. That act is required of us by law. Should we not have to do that because it's anti-USA as you put it?
Should the Pledge of Allegiance be banned in schools?
How about having an American flag in classrooms to begin with? That was a mainstay when I was growing up.
People can choose to do what they wish, but people can also choose to have commentary on it as a result.
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The weird thing about the Papa Johns losing business argument, is Papa John is a big Trump supporter and vocal evangelical republican.
If you are to buy the "NFL protest hurting his business angle," you have to then believe that republican Trump supporters are either boycotting one of their own (Papa Johns) or are too stupid to be aware of his very vocal political leanings.
Or, just maybe, his blaming the NFL players is just another part of his very vocal Pro-Trump Pro-GOP beliefs and statements, and the decline in business has nothing to do with the NFL.
Instead it has everything to do with increased competition and price pressures from a aggressive campaign from Pizza Hut.
Not at all. Read the WSJ and Barron's article on fans wanting to hurt the players. Follow the money. Sure it hurts a pro Trump supporter, but it also hurts the players and league, which is their ultimate goal. That is why they are boycotting the NFL sponsors. A means to an end in their minds.
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Let's use common sense.
Papa John's sales were up in Q2 of '17 per their earnings report. Also up in Q1 of '17. And Q4 of '16. And Q3 of '16. I didn't go back further than that.
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x929076/6B0A8A3B-507B-46AC-A821-05EF1E8AF37F/Q4_2016_Press_Release_-_Final.pdf
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x940487/B63B6F31-67A1-4A23-BE25-664A101E5FDA/Q1_2017_Press_Release_-_Final.pdf
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x951830/A7F5E22F-1D57-4C4C-B2BB-C1451CF51DEB/PJI_Q2_2017_Press_Release_Final.pdf
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x961890/7DEAFE74-363E-4109-9370-869D15F2ABB6/Press_Release_-_Q3_2017_-_Final.pdf
What has changed? The pizza got crappy this quarter? The recipe changed? The founder just now said he was a Trump supporter (he has been a supporter since last year). Common sense time.
If you read the WSJ article and another by Barron's (I believe that was the publisher), people have boycotted brands like Papa John's, Ford, Budweiser, Direct Tv, ESPN, FOX, CBS, NBC and others because fans think it puts money in players pockets. They aren't wrong, but it also hurts the sales of the brand. This is why those companies are considering going in another direction. Papa John's clearly has made that decision.
The pizza is the same. The founder is the same. What changed is people are boycotting NFL and guess what two days are the most popular in pizza sales? Saturday and Sunday. If less football is watched, less need to buy pizza.
So in Q1 and Q2, Pizza hut was losing share to Domino's and some to Papa Johns. Because of a loss in business they started a vigorous new ad campaign and price war, to regain marketshare by targeting largely Papa Johns business. Domino's continued their recent fight to regain market share.
Papa Johns did nothing. They stayed idle, while being targeted by the two other big players in the market. They lost market share as a result.
That is how business works. If you don't react to a market move, you lose. Apparently you do not understand that simple concept...and neither does Papa John.
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Oh God. The “people who point out racism are responsible for Trump” line. Yes. The poor who’re people of the world. So oppressed.
And I’m not playing the “race card.” It’s a protest about racial injustice. Race is inherent in the discussion.
Actually, you very much are. We can't have discussion in this country today without that card being played. You have done it several times yourself, maybe you don't realize you are doing it. More importantly, why do you get decide if it is racist or intent? Are you in another person's heart to be able to make those claims? The term is being weaponized and that is the intent.
Justice Thomas' comments the other day were right on target. Civil commentary without this kind of innuendo and charges is no longer possible, which is very troubling.
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We still have rituals however, that doesn't mean we are forcing people to think or act the same way. We all have to file our federal taxes, at least the 55% that actually pay federal taxes. That act is required of us by law. Should we not have to do that because it's anti-USA as you put it?
Should the Pledge of Allegiance be banned in schools?
How about having an American flag in classrooms to begin with? That was a mainstay when I was growing up.
I have no idea what any of this means.
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Let's use common sense.
Papa John's sales were up in Q2 of '17 per their earnings report. Also up in Q1 of '17. And Q4 of '16. And Q3 of '16. I didn't go back further than that.
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x929076/6B0A8A3B-507B-46AC-A821-05EF1E8AF37F/Q4_2016_Press_Release_-_Final.pdf
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x940487/B63B6F31-67A1-4A23-BE25-664A101E5FDA/Q1_2017_Press_Release_-_Final.pdf
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x951830/A7F5E22F-1D57-4C4C-B2BB-C1451CF51DEB/PJI_Q2_2017_Press_Release_Final.pdf
http://files.shareholder.com/downloads/PZZA/5509086779x0x961890/7DEAFE74-363E-4109-9370-869D15F2ABB6/Press_Release_-_Q3_2017_-_Final.pdf
What has changed? The pizza got crappy this quarter? The recipe changed? The founder just now said he was a Trump supporter (he has been a supporter since last year). Common sense time.
If you read the WSJ article and another by Barron's (I believe that was the publisher), people have boycotted brands like Papa John's, Ford, Budweiser, Direct Tv, ESPN, FOX, CBS, NBC and others because fans think it puts money in players pockets. They aren't wrong, but it also hurts the sales of the brand. This is why those companies are considering going in another direction. Papa John's clearly has made that decision.
The pizza is the same. The founder is the same. What changed is people are boycotting NFL and guess what two days are the most popular in pizza sales? Saturday and Sunday. If less football is watched, less need to buy pizza.
To be fair, not everyone is boycotting Papa Johns
http://www.newsweek.com/papa-john-alt-right-nazis-white-supremacists-nfl-pizza-701648 (http://www.newsweek.com/papa-john-alt-right-nazis-white-supremacists-nfl-pizza-701648)
As always, Nihilist Arby's summed up the Papa Johns situation perfectly (NSFW)
https://twitter.com/nihilist_arbys/status/926238595412905985 (https://twitter.com/nihilist_arbys/status/926238595412905985)
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Please stop it with "the rules". It has been mentioned several times in this thread that it is NOT in the "rules". The NFL's rulebook says nothing about player conduct during the pre-game playing of the U.S. national anthem.
Don't confuse the rulebook (the rules of the game) with the requirements of behavior, etc on and off the field. Yes, the game operations manual being one of them. Does the rulebook say if a player skips a media interview he's in trouble? No, it doesn't, yet that's what happens because there are multiple requirements and rulebooks (as it were) for the players.
If you would like me to phrase it as policy and not a rule, I'm happy to do that. The NFL already has a policy, they just refuse to enforce it. The policy says players shall stand for the national anthem. The NFL has chosen not to enforce that policy.
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Or over-saturation.
http://awfulannouncing.com/nfl/cbs-sports-chairman-sean-mcmanus-reverses-stance-blames-dilution-saturation-nfl-ratings-dip.html
Last night was a great example. Too many flags. Too much poor play. It's a bad product right now. That's why Deshaun Watson's injury is so terrible. It takes one of the young players, who can REALLY play, out of the game. And gives you...Tom Savage. And the Texans will still have a decent shot at the playoffs in a conference where only three teams are two games over .500 or better.
College football is much more watchable. You don't need a great NFL-style passer to succeed.
Another bad common sense argument. Over saturation. Thursday night football started more than 10 years ago with 8 games a year. In 2014 it ramped even more. Ratings in 2014 were strong, in 2015 strong, each beating out the previous years. So now, suddenly it's over saturation after a decade?
The data doesn't lie.
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Jamie from Orange County on the case!
Sounds Hispanic from a county that went to Clinton in the election.
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Sad this keeps being the go to by so many. We just can't have conversations anymore without this nonsense.
May I ask you a question, since you seem to imply someone that hasn't walked in someone else's shoes can't have an opinion any longer. Are women allowed to have comments about men since they aren't men? How about middle class people about the rich? Where does this race logic that is used start and end? Especially since many people, regardless of race, have been poor at one time in their lives and some for their entire life, yet the broad brush that you are painting with is odd. If you don't think these attitudes which are widely used in discussion these days do not influence how people vote and turn people off, you aren't paying attention in my opinion.
Holy christ.
Shall we see which one you are today?
(https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/system/App/Settings/poster_image_highs/000/000/001/original/FallaciesPosterHigherRes.jpg)
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How can people actually with a straight face say this isn't a political protest by the players, specifically Mr. Kap?
The New York Times calls his intent and actions a political protest. As does the Washington Post, Slate, etc.
He was protesting police brutality. Are the police not the state, gov't representatives? Of course it is political and there is no other rational way to define it. Then you just have to read his words then and now. Or Eric Reid's words, or Michael Bennett's words. Of course it is political protest.
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Another bad common sense argument. Over saturation. Thursday night football started more than 10 years ago with 8 games a year. In 2014 it ramped even more. Ratings in 2014 were strong, in 2015 strong, each beating out the previous years. So now, suddenly it's over saturation after a decade?
The data doesn't lie.
Just going to remove this. Was unnecessary.
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Yes, pointing out he we are failing as a society and challenging to improve can cause some to vote to embrace those failings.
No, accusing someone of being a racist because of the race they were born into and had no choice in the matter can turn off a lot of people. They vote, too. If you think blanketly calling people racist or not allowing their voices to be heard or diminishing their voices by shaming them is a winning strategy, well all I can say is good luck. I'd prefer honest conversation without the racial attacks that keep coming up.
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Another bad common sense argument. Over saturation. Thursday night football started more than 10 years ago with 8 games a year. In 2014 it ramped even more. Ratings in 2014 were strong, in 2015 strong, each beating out the previous years. So now, suddenly it's over saturation after a decade?
The data doesn't lie.
Weren't the games more widely distributed back then? In 2014 and 2015 they had a lot of games on CBS and NBC. Frankly, I couldn't tell you where they are now. Streamed through Twitter or Amazon?
Maybe that's already factored into the ratings, but not sure.
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So in Q1 and Q2, Pizza hut was losing share to Domino's and some to Papa Johns. Because of a loss in business they started a vigorous new ad campaign and price war, to regain marketshare by targeting largely Papa Johns business. Domino's continued their recent fight to regain market share.
Papa Johns did nothing. They stayed idle, while being targeted by the two other big players in the market. They lost market share as a result.
That is how business works. If you don't react to a market move, you lose. Apparently you do not understand that simple concept...and neither does Papa John.
Except Pizza Hut and Domino's aren't NFL sponsors. Again, people are specifically boycotting NFL sponsors to hurt the players. Apparently you do not understand that simple concept - Papa John's does. Ford does. Budweiser does. Direct TV does. CBS does. Fox does. ESPN does, including the article this week they may abandon NFL altogether in a few years).
And to say Papa John's did nothing, is that your opinion or do you have actual factual evidence to suggest this?
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To be fair, not everyone is boycotting Papa Johns
http://www.newsweek.com/papa-john-alt-right-nazis-white-supremacists-nfl-pizza-701648 (http://www.newsweek.com/papa-john-alt-right-nazis-white-supremacists-nfl-pizza-701648)
As always, Nihilist Arby's summed up the Papa Johns situation perfectly (NSFW)
https://twitter.com/nihilist_arbys/status/926238595412905985 (https://twitter.com/nihilist_arbys/status/926238595412905985)
And in the same Newsweek article you see where someone is saying boycott PapaJohn's pizza, which is exactly what the NFL Boycott sponsors movement has been doing the last 6 weeks, attacking NFL sponsors. I think you are catching on, people will boycott brands if they see them supporting certain causes. NFL fans boycotted NFL brands and it hurt those brands sales.
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Weren't the games more widely distributed back then? In 2014 and 2015 they had a lot of games on CBS and NBC. Frankly, I couldn't tell you where they are now. Streamed through Twitter or Amazon?
Maybe that's already factored into the ratings, but not sure.
They are also still on NFL Network and CBS. In addition the NFL did a one year test with Twitter last year and a one year test this year with Amazon, but the person paying for television (which is still the overwhelming majority in this country by a mile) has the same saturation they've had for years.
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Same old, same old.
The lunatic is carpetbombing threads again. We all realize what he is after the first post. Then he goes on to prove it over and over, ad nauseum.
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Holy christ.
Shall we see which one you are today?
Do you think it appropriate that the race card is played incessantly whenever conversations become political? That's ultimately what I am asking?
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Except Pizza Hut and Domino's aren't NFL sponsors. Again, people are specifically boycotting NFL sponsors to hurt the players. Apparently you do not understand that simple concept - Papa John's does. Ford does. Budweiser does. Direct TV does. CBS does. Fox does. ESPN does, including the article this week they may abandon NFL altogether in a few years).
And to say Papa John's did nothing, is that your opinion or do you have actual factual evidence to suggest this?
No, you apparently don't know business, or are pretending not to.
Let's go through proven business principles. People buy items based on quality and price. If there are 3 major competitors in your market, and two of them make concerted efforts to improve quality, and decrease prices, while the third does not make changes. What will happen?
The natural conclusion is that the two that improved quality and price will gain market share and the one that didn't act will lose market share.
That well established principle accurately predicts the current market. It is the simplest and most rational conclusion.
You want people to throw out the proven, established predictable models to go with a more complicated unproven idea of people not buying Papa Johns (owned by a Trump supporter and outspoken GOP supporter) because they were a sponsor of the NFL. That is illogical, and an unnecessarily complicated argument.
It would be equally valid to state that he is losing market share, because people are protesting his personal outspoken beliefs. But again, that is unnecessarily complex. There is a simpler and well established principle which satisfactorily explains the drop in sales. You just don't want to accept it, because 1) You like arguing. 2) You will never admit to being wrong. 3) They don't agree with your political beliefs.
As for the price war/Papa John's late response. Yes, I do have evidence. And Papa John's has recently (last month) started to do price cuts/promotions to compete with Pizza Hut's moves. It was just way too late.
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Do you think it appropriate that the race card is played incessantly whenever conversations become political? That's ultimately what I am asking?
What is the central argument being discussed here?
It involves a protest by a racial minority, over systematic mistreatment by society, which is disliked by a racial majority.
So yes, in this case it is perfectly reasonable to discuss race/racism. It is the central tenet of the protest and movement.
Why is that hard for you to understand?
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Me reading this thread:
(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz9ioacxt71qdwjb5o8_r1_250.gif)(http://25.media.tumblr.com/f4d3bc7d67e00c3f2860f3f24c79aeb8/tumblr_n063gr3tA91qec5vxo1_r1_250.gif)(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz9ioacxt71qdwjb5o12_r1_250.gif)
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No, accusing someone of being a racist because of the race they were born into and had no choice in the matter can turn off a lot of people. They vote, too. If you think blanketly calling people racist or not allowing their voices to be heard or diminishing their voices by shaming them is a winning strategy, well all I can say is good luck. I'd prefer honest conversation without the racial attacks that keep coming up.
And yet, a few years ago, you routinely called people baby killers who disagreed with you on abortion. I remember. I was one of them. Nor have I forgotten the names you used, the accusations you tossed when MU basketball players were accused of sexual assault. You were on the other side of that debate then. Weird. Must of been Buzz related. It is one of the reasons I did not miss you when you were banned.
And yes, it is very apparent that people who say and do things that can easily be interpreted as racist resent being called racist. And that they vote. Clearly, their voice has not been diminished, though to hear many of them tell it, they are the most persecuted people around.
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I'm just going to shut this down.
Banny! Try to stick to basketball! You're obsessive over the other stuff.
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Sad this keeps being the go to by so many. We just can't have conversations anymore without this nonsense.
May I ask you a question, since you seem to imply someone that hasn't walked in someone else's shoes can't have an opinion any longer. Are women allowed to have comments about men since they aren't men? How about middle class people about the rich? Where does this race logic that is used start and end? Especially since many people, regardless of race, have been poor at one time in their lives and some for their entire life, yet the broad brush that you are painting with is odd. If you don't think these attitudes which are widely used in discussion these days do not influence how people vote and turn people off, you aren't paying attention in my opinion.
I never implied anything of the sort. Stop deflecting. Feigning ignorance of the real issue and preaching about how people should protest is a tale as old as time.
You are the one who doesn’t want to have an honest discussion about race.