No more High School players unless you can get an impact player.Need to concentrate on Grad transfers,Jucos and regular transfers that not only can contribute but also to balance classes.
Grad transfer big if possible.
The rest you just get what you can. Balancing classes always sounds good but with transfers is never really works out.
Can't just take players to fill roster if they will never contribute.Need to make sure they have 4 spots available for 2018 class.Going to be a good one.
I should have said "get the best that you can." I meant regardless if high school, Juco or transfer. I agree that you shouldn't fill up for the sake of filling up.
Lets recruit some tough SOB's. Players who play like Wojo played, not the choir boy Wojo has become. Let's get some angry guys. Some cheap shot artists. A Laimbeer, a Mahorn, a Rodman, an Aaron Craft, a Wojo, a Laettner, a player who belongs on a Cinci Huggins team. We are in the F-ing Big East. Let's get some F-ing B-Easts. Lets get some guys that other fanbases hold in contempt and boo and throw crap at, not guys who other fanbases think about twice a year with a chuckle.
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2016, 09:00:24 AM
Lets recruit some tough SOB's. Players who play like Wojo played, not the choir boy Wojo has become. Let's get some angry guys. Some cheap shot artists. A Laimbeer, a Mahorn, a Rodman, an Aaron Craft, a Wojo, a Laettner, a player who belongs on a Cinci Huggins team. We are in the F-ing Big East. Let's get some F-ing B-Easts. Lets get some guys that other fanbases hold in contempt and boo and throw crap at, not guys who other fanbases think about twice a year with a chuckle.
Problem is those kinda guys now are so uncoordinated that it takes them a couple years to be productive. Theres a kid from Northwestern who kinda plays like that now, Gavin Skelly. Hes a pain to play against now but he was so bad his first two years.
I agree Tower but it looks like the recruiting philosophy of the type of student athlete has changed if you know what I mean
I've lost track at this point. We have still have THREE scholarships for next year, after John, Eke and Cain?
EDIT: to answer my own question, yes we have 3 remaining for next year now with Carter and Cohen's departures.
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on December 20, 2016, 09:36:42 AM
I agree Tower but it looks like the recruiting philosophy of the type of student athlete has changed if you know what I mean
If you keep recruiting choir boys, you get choir boy basketball.
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2016, 09:00:24 AM
Lets recruit some tough SOB's. Players who play like Wojo played, not the choir boy Wojo has become. Let's get some angry guys. Some cheap shot artists. A Laimbeer, a Mahorn, a Rodman, an Aaron Craft, a Wojo, a Laettner, a player who belongs on a Cinci Huggins team. We are in the F-ing Big East. Let's get some F-ing B-Easts. Lets get some guys that other fanbases hold in contempt and boo and throw crap at, not guys who other fanbases think about twice a year with a chuckle.
Totally agree. A dude like James Farr on X last year.
Hopefully Eke and John become those guys down the road.
As for next year, I think we need at least one grad transfer big. I'd take 2 grad transfers. And then a traditional transfer would be nice. Get him in the program, but can't play. I think we should use at least one of those every year. Impossible to keep 13 scholarship players who are eligible to play happy, as we've seen 2x this year.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on December 20, 2016, 09:43:05 AM
I've lost track at this point. We have still have THREE scholarships for next year, after John, Eke and Cain?
Yes. We had one remaining before the two transfers.
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2016, 09:00:24 AM
Lets recruit some tough SOB's. Players who play like Wojo played, not the choir boy Wojo has become. Let's get some angry guys. Some cheap shot artists. A Laimbeer, a Mahorn, a Rodman, an Aaron Craft, a Wojo, a Laettner, a player who belongs on a Cinci Huggins team. We are in the F-ing Big East. Let's get some F-ing B-Easts. Lets get some guys that other fanbases hold in contempt and boo and throw crap at, not guys who other fanbases think about twice a year with a chuckle.
I would love to see this guy. However, IMHO Wojos MU will not even get close to a player like this. I think the admin would rather lose with choir boys than win with.....the players you describe above---if they had to choose between the two.
Quote from: We R Final Four on December 20, 2016, 10:03:01 AM
I would love to see this guy. However, IMHO Wojos MU will not even get close to a player like this. I think the admin would rather lose with choir boys than win with.....the players you describe above---if they had to choose between the two.
I doubt that the MU administration would rather lose with choir boys than win with Laettner 2.0.
I chalk this up entirely to Wojo not understanding the true physicality of the BE. I think he is trying to make up for that with his 2017 class. Remember Tillman and possibly French were possibilities too.
I don't know if Wojo has a free rein to go after JUCOs, and even if he did would he take a couple?
Quote from: ecompt on December 20, 2016, 10:15:08 AM
I don't know if Wojo has a free rein to go after JUCOs, and even if he did would he take a couple?
I am sure that Wojo has free reign to do what he sees best.
When we had tough guys some scoopers begged for "high IQ" guys, traditionals and shooters. The poet and his sidekick took over to move us in that direction. Wojo comes from a program that signed the most skilled players in the country. Elite skill can beat good guys who are tough. Skill guys who are a notch below the elites? Maybe not.
Quote from: ecompt on December 20, 2016, 10:15:08 AM
I don't know if Wojo has a free rein to go after JUCOs, and even if he did would he take a couple?
The "ban" on jucos is something that's been overexagerated on this board. Wojo can and has gone after some jucos. They just have to be able to graduate venue their eligibility expires. That's tough for many because a lot of them study phy ed which Marquette doesn't offer a degree in. Need to be either three year jucos or major in a degree that mu offers.
Plus, I think MU fans have an inflated sense of how many good jucos are out there. We got four of the best jucos in the country in Buycks, JFB, DJO, and Jae. Most don't translate well to high majors. Look at Mulmore at Georgetown. He was the second leading scorer in the NJCAA with 26.1 ppg last season. He's now getting like 10 minutes a game at the end of Georgetown's bench. A three star freshmen and trae Campbell (Georgetown's version of Derrick Wilson) are ahead of him on the depth chart.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 20, 2016, 10:34:42 AM
Look at Mulmore at Georgetown. He was the second leading scorer in the NJCAA with 26.1 ppg last season. He's now getting like 10 minutes a game at the end of Georgetown's bench. A three star freshmen and trae Campbell (Georgetown's version of Derrick Wilson) are ahead of him on the depth chart.
NO! Nope nope nope. Those are facts. Those are not allowed at on Scoop. Keep this crap up TAMU and I'm reporting you to the Mods.
about a junkyard dog like this famous Duke player:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH9gnyosh_w
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2016, 09:00:24 AM
Lets recruit some tough SOB's. Players who play like Wojo played, not the choir boy Wojo has become. Let's get some angry guys. Some cheap shot artists. A Laimbeer, a Mahorn, a Rodman, an Aaron Craft, a Wojo, a Laettner, a player who belongs on a Cinci Huggins team. We are in the F-ing Big East. Let's get some F-ing B-Easts. Lets get some guys that other fanbases hold in contempt and boo and throw crap at, not guys who other fanbases think about twice a year with a chuckle.
I think that you're living in the past. Remember the rules have been changed to emphasize allowing offensive player movement. Maybe if you're considered an elite guard like Ryan Arcidiacono or Aaron Craft you can get enough leeway to get a sneaky cheap shot in, but for the most part the days of the goons are gone. Remember what happened when Ethan Happ tried to control Luke?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 20, 2016, 10:26:20 AM
When we had tough guys some scoopers begged for "high IQ" guys, traditionals and shooters. The poet and his sidekick took over to move us in that direction. Wojo comes from a program that signed the most skilled players in the country. Elite skill can beat good guys who are tough. Skill guys who are a notch below the elites? Maybe not.
We will find out, won't we?
Curious about the details regarding the concussion, are they practicing with more junk yard intensity?
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on December 20, 2016, 10:41:29 AM
about a junkyard dog like this famous Duke player:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH9gnyosh_w
Unbelievable what a Duke homer Billy Packer was.
Quote from: 4everCrean on December 20, 2016, 10:58:19 AM
Remember what happened when Ethan Happ tried to control Luke?
I remember that the Badgers won.
So with these three schollies if Wojo can only recruit high school projects or marginal transfers who don't change the dynamic over the next two seasons, does he get more time to "rebuild" the program?
Not sure how much quality is left but there has to be a Juco that can rebound and play post defense.He does not have to be a big scorer.We are bankrupt inside.Until this changes we will not compete in the Big East.Hopefully Theo John is ready from day 1.Wojo needs to hit a Home Run with the 2018 recruiting class.
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2016, 09:00:24 AM
Lets recruit some tough SOB's. Players who play like Wojo played, not the choir boy Wojo has become. Let's get some angry guys. Some cheap shot artists. A Laimbeer, a Mahorn, a Rodman, an Aaron Craft, a Wojo, a Laettner, a player who belongs on a Cinci Huggins team. We are in the F-ing Big East. Let's get some F-ing B-Easts. Lets get some guys that other fanbases hold in contempt and boo and throw crap at, not guys who other fanbases think about twice a year with a chuckle.
LOL!! you almost listed the Pistons starting lineup from back in the day...also Isaiah Thomas was tough (but very unlikable >:( )...Dumars and the microwave were solid too. Of course we're talking the NBA champs here....not Grad students and Jucos.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 20, 2016, 10:08:24 AM
I doubt that the MU administration would rather lose with choir boys than win with Laettner 2.0.
I chalk this up entirely to Wojo not understanding the true physicality of the BE. I think he is trying to make up for that with his 2017 class. Remember Tillman and possibly French were possibilities too.
I'm not holding my breath that a lambeer type or an SOB or a cheap shot artist as Tower suggests is walking through that door on Wojos watch even if he eventually begins to understand the Beasts toughness and physicality.
Is the Big East really that much more physical than the ACC? I don't think it is. We sound like Iowa football fans defending three yards and a cloud of dust as some trade secret brand of B10 football no one else could understand.
We need "athletes". Was it just me, but St.FU's player were quicker and were getting rebounds away from Sam and Luke. We need guys who can CRASH THE BOARDS.
I'm hoping Theo John fills that roll. I've watched some of the highlights of him as a sophomore blocking McD's All-American Henry Ellenson a few times in their game.
I watch the other teams and wonder a lot where is our 6'8"-6'9" guy that just likes to rebound, finish with dunks, and block shots. Then when you look at those other team's guys they are juniors/seniors. So they obviously need time to develop and the willingness to stay in a program to develop instead of transfer. Think a player like Faisal Abraham (aging myself). Guy was limited offensively but he sure as hell made a difference defensively!
It is unrealistic to expect our interior players to compete with Big East and higher level teams when for the last two years you have a 6'4" Sandy Cohen playing the 4 position when he is a guy that played point guard in high school. You recruit a Matt Heldt that is going to be a solid body and rotational player one day. He is what he is though. He isn't going to block a lot of shots or grab rebounds and just slam them home!
You have to have some players up front that can rebound,play post defense and rim protect.We have nobody at either Center or Power forward that can do that on a consistent basis.Until you get somebody you will not win playing High Major teams.I say we only win 6 or 7 games in the league this year.We can not compete up front.
Quote from: Aircraftcarrier on December 20, 2016, 12:03:48 PM
You have to have some players up front that can rebound,play post defense and rim protect.We have nobody at either Center or Power forward that can do that on a consistent basis.Until you get somebody you will not win playing High Major teams.I say we only win 6 or 7 games in the league this year.We can not compete up front.
Won't disagree with your assessment as it is very reasonable. I see us getting to 9 wins though (and the NIT), and possibly stealing an extra by shooting lights out against a team we shouldn't beat to get to 10-8 and an NCAA birth.
If we had the C/PF you are talking about 10-8 may be the floor for this team.
Quote from: forgetful on December 20, 2016, 12:11:04 PM
Won't disagree with your assessment as it is very reasonable. I see us getting to 9 wins though (and the NIT), and possibly stealing an extra by shooting lights out against a team we shouldn't beat to get to 10-8 and an NCAA birth.
If we had the C/PF you are talking about 10-8 may be the floor for this team.
I could see that too. I could also see MU losing a few where they shoot very poorly and their Defense is... well their defense and they lose to say Depaul.
I don't think wojo would want a mid season transfer
Liambeer played at notre dame ... He can go frack himself!!!
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on December 20, 2016, 12:23:43 PM
I don't think wojo would want a mid season transfer
I suspect if the right fit came along , Wojo would take one. Especialy if he was a solid 6'8" PF who was a freshman.
Recruiting JUCO's and especially grad transfers can cause issue's with existing players and the only way I'd recruit either is if there is a clear spot on the roster where there is a need. The additions of Reinhardt and Rowsey likely played a part in Carter and Cohen leaving.
How do you plan to recruit a grad transfer when you may not know for 3-4 months whether someone is going to go that route and when they do, you've got other schools vying for the player and you really have to have an inside connection is some cases.
I don't want to speculate on JUCO's and Marquette since I don't know who they are looking at. That said, there are 3 big guys who have been at D1 schools who are now at the NJCAA D1 level. There's a player at Salt Lake (UT) Community College who played a year at Tulane. There's a PF/C who redshirted at Utah and who is now a freshman at New Mexico Junior College and there's VCU transfer Jonathan Nwankwo at the College of Southern Idaho. Nwankwo redshirted as a freshman at VCU and may have 3 years left at D1 like the kid at New Mexico Junior College.
Here is a question. . . .would you be happy with a Jon Harris / Osman Barro type of a player on this team? Is that what type of player you are looking at?
Realistically, someone like that probably would help this team a lot. Back in their time, a lot where focused so much on what they couldn't do instead of what they did bring to the table.
Quote from: TedBaxter on December 20, 2016, 12:46:19 PM
Recruiting JUCO's and especially grad transfers can cause issue's with existing players and the only way I'd recruit either is if there is a clear spot on the roster where there is a need. The additions of Reinhardt and Rowsey likely played a part in Carter and Cohen leaving.
How do you plan to recruit a grad transfer when you may not know for 3-4 months whether someone is going to go that route and when they do, you've got other schools vying for the player and you really have to have an inside connection is some cases.
I don't want to speculate on JUCO's and Marquette since I don't know who they are looking at. That said, there are 3 big guys who have been at D1 schools who are now at the NJCAA D1 level. There's a player at Salt Lake (UT) Community College who played a year at Tulane. There's a PF/C who redshirted at Utah and who is now a freshman at New Mexico Junior College and there's VCU transfer Jonathan Nwankwo at the College of Southern Idaho. Nwankwo redshirted as a freshman at VCU and may have 3 years left at D1 like the kid at New Mexico Junior College.
I am 100% okay with a player on the roster decides they want to leave because better talent is joining the roster at their positions. Talent wins.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 20, 2016, 12:50:23 PM
I am 100% okay with a player on the roster decides they want to leave because better talent is joining the roster at their positions. Talent wins.
You have to do a cost/benefit analysis though.
If you are talking only a one year grad transfer, is it worth it for that one year if it stunts another player's growth or causes them to transfer?
If one year of Katin caused Sandy to transfer, I am OK with that because I don't think Sandy's upside is that high.
If Rowsey caused Traci to transfer, I *think* I am fine with that because we get two years of Rowsey.
If Rowsey were a grad transfer and caused Traci to leave, *that * is where I might have a problem.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 20, 2016, 12:54:51 PM
You have to do a cost/benefit analysis though.
If you are talking only a one year grad transfer, is it worth it for that one year if it stunts another player's growth or causes them to transfer?
If one year of Katin caused Sandy to transfer, I am OK with that because I don't think Sandy's upside is that high.
If Rowsey caused Traci to transfer, I *think* I am fine with that because we get two years of Rowsey.
If Rowsey were a grad transfer and caused Traci to leave, *that * is where I might have a problem.
It also depends on who you bring in with the open scholarship that the grad transfer would be creating in that situation.
95% of the time if a kid is transferring out because of playing time issues that's a good sign to me. We are getting better.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 20, 2016, 12:54:51 PM
You have to do a cost/benefit analysis though.
If you are talking only a one year grad transfer, is it worth it for that one year if it stunts another player's growth or causes them to transfer?
If one year of Katin caused Sandy to transfer, I am OK with that because I don't think Sandy's upside is that high.
If Rowsey caused Traci to transfer, I *think* I am fine with that because we get two years of Rowsey.
If Rowsey were a grad transfer and caused Traci to leave, *that * is where I might have a problem.
I agree with this analysis.
Quote from: tower912 on December 20, 2016, 09:00:24 AM
Lets recruit some tough SOB's. Players who play like Wojo played, not the choir boy Wojo has become. Let's get some angry guys. Some cheap shot artists. A Laimbeer, a Mahorn, a Rodman, an Aaron Craft, a Wojo, a Laettner, a player who belongs on a Cinci Huggins team. We are in the F-ing Big East. Let's get some F-ing B-Easts. Lets get some guys that other fanbases hold in contempt and boo and throw crap at, not guys who other fanbases think about twice a year with a chuckle.
Agree 100%. We need to recruit dominant players. That is, athletes that can out play opponents. History shows that when Marquette has had players we who can dominate like George Thompson, Dean Memminger, Butch Lee, Maurice Lucas, Jim Chones, Bo Ellis, Jerome Whitehead, we win big time.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 20, 2016, 03:53:06 PM
Agree 100%. We need to recruit dominant players. That is, athletes that can out play opponents. History shows that when Marquette has had players we who can dominate like George Thompson, Dean Memminger, Butch Lee, Maurice Lucas, Jim Chones, Bo Ellis, Jerome Whitehead, we win big time.
Agreed. We need more good players and not bad players. Ultimately good players have a better opportunity to play good than bad players, usually leading to scoring more points than the other team. When you have more points than the other team, you usually win. Wojo needs more wins, and therefore players that are good as opposed to bad.
We have good players now. I am talking about players that are not only good, but, who are dominant and can out play their opponents. Dominant meaning strong, confident and play with an edge.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 20, 2016, 12:54:51 PM
You have to do a cost/benefit analysis though.
If you are talking only a one year grad transfer, is it worth it for that one year if it stunts another player's growth or causes them to transfer?
If one year of Katin caused Sandy to transfer, I am OK with that because I don't think Sandy's upside is that high.
If Rowsey caused Traci to transfer, I *think* I am fine with that because we get two years of Rowsey.
If Rowsey were a grad transfer and caused Traci to leave, *that * is where I might have a problem.
I think timing is everything. I'm not exactly sure on the order but there was a time when we had no PG. Nick was out of the picture and Wojo signed Traci in the Spring. Shortly thereafter, Rowsey tossed his hat in the ring by transferring in. Later, Wojo recruited a kid who had led his U17 international team and was recruited 'over' both prior players. I'm confident you'd agree that's fine.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on December 20, 2016, 03:53:06 PM
Agree 100%. We need to recruit dominant players. That is, athletes that can out play opponents. History shows that when Marquette has had players we who can dominate like George Thompson, Dean Memminger, Butch Lee, Maurice Lucas, Jim Chones, Bo Ellis, Jerome Whitehead, we win big time.
Those are all 5 star players during the 10 years we were Duke. those days are over. Hank got a few, Buzz a few, that is all I can remember the last 35 years. Not that
easy. In there high school career, they were all Top 5 kids in America except Jerome and George. We might go after a top 50 kid today, but even those kids are not
looking at MU. I do believe once the new area is build and the Bucks becomes a dominant team, that might impress some new recruits. It will be the best building in
America.
Quote from: Badgerhater on December 20, 2016, 11:07:26 AM
I remember that the Badgers won.
You should have seen the game. Badgers won because Happ stopped trying to muscle Luke, and was able to play the second half as a result.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 20, 2016, 12:54:51 PM
You have to do a cost/benefit analysis though.
If you are talking only a one year grad transfer, is it worth it for that one year if it stunts another player's growth or causes them to transfer?
If one year of Katin caused Sandy to transfer, I am OK with that because I don't think Sandy's upside is that high.
If Rowsey caused Traci to transfer, I *think* I am fine with that because we get two years of Rowsey.
If Rowsey were a grad transfer and caused Traci to leave, *that * is where I might have a problem.
Agreed. I doubt that Rowsey was the reason Carter left, when a guy a year behind you moves into your spot its time to reassess.
Quote from: 4everCrean on December 20, 2016, 04:41:09 PM
You should have seen the game. Badgers won because Happ stopped trying to muscle Luke, and was able to play the second half as a result.
Nah. Happ's first half fouls came on reach-ins when he was out of position. I recall Happ receiving the ball near the elbow with his back to the basket more than once in the second half, and backing Luke damn near into the standard supporting the hoop. Not that I think Happ is the kind of bad boy this thread is daydreaming about.
Quote from: 4everCrean on December 20, 2016, 04:48:40 PM
Agreed. I doubt that Rowsey was the reason Carter left, when a guy a year behind you moves into your spot its time to reassess.
A grad transfer is when you lose a player of substance and you have an open starting spot for a year. Reinhardt was that, Carlino, Lockett, they fit a need. Next year
MU has a need at the two guard or power forward, either spot is available. Sorry, Duane, right now you do not cut it, nor Eke, not yet. Sam can play the 4, but not
really, need a banger. There is room until as Sams brother can start at the 4 the following year, and Eke will have some improvement. They do need a good 2 guard
to recruit as well. Bailey can play the 2 or 3, much like Cheatham, but looks to be a better shooter.
I hear that Charles Manson, The Incredible Hulk and Clubber Lang each still has a couple years of eligibility left.
That would solve our need for bad-arses and put us right back in the top-10, but that wuss Wojo is passing on them to recruit Chaz Bono, Pee-wee Herman and Screech.
Quote from: MU82 on December 20, 2016, 10:31:17 PM
I hear that Charles Manson, The Incredible Hulk and Clubber Lang each still has a couple years of eligibility left.
That would solve our need for bad-arses and put us right back in the top-10, but that wuss Wojo is passing on them to recruit Chaz Bono, Pee-wee Herman and Screech.
Charlie goes about 5'4'', 130. Chaz, Pee Wee or Screech are younger and more physical.
By all accounts, Screech is kind of a badass.
Dustin Diamond Dallas Page.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 20, 2016, 10:55:34 PM
Charlie goes about 5'4'', 130.
Earlier in this thread, Wojo's toughness as a player was brought up. Dom James was tough in a small package.
Manson wouldn't even need to move. He'd just show his crazy, evil eyes and offensive players would hand him the ball.
Hey, maybe that was Henry's secret to getting all of those easy rebounds!
Quote from: MU82 on December 20, 2016, 10:31:17 PM
I hear that Charles Manson, The Incredible Hulk and Clubber Lang each still has a couple years of eligibility left.
That would solve our need for bad-arses and put us right back in the top-10, but that wuss Wojo is passing on them to recruit Chaz Bono, Pee-wee Herman and Screech.
Troy Bolton got any eligibility left?