1. JjJ and HC were dreadful today. But maybe HC found something down the stretch.
2. Happ is better than Luke. His play turned the game at the start of the second half.
3. MU played as well as it could in the first half. Unable to sustain and the Badgers are good.
4. Sam played like a freshman up against the big state school today. Learning experience. He will get better.
5. MU is too small to guard a whole bunch of these guys straight up. Double down, kick out, open shot, boom.
6. 16-0 run. 32-10 overall the first 10 minutes of the second half. At home. Nobody running any offense or getting the ball in to Fischer. Easy to blame Wojo, but the players have to run the offense. And play defense. And not make stupid, lazy passes or stupid, lazy fouls. And go after defensive rebounds.
7. FWIW, I had big loss in the poll.
8. KR saved us in the first half. Less so in the second.
9. My 9-year-old.... " Dad, I played better defense than that today."
10. Duane needs a shot to fall so that he can spend more time on the floor. His on-ball defense is the best on the team.
11. When you can't get a blatant elbowing call at home....... The ghost of Bo lingers. The refs DID NOT cost this game. But that call was flat out atrocious. And the Badger players can still whine and plead with the best.
12. But the team didn't quit. 26 solid minutes, 14 crap minutes.
13. Hayes, Koenig, Happ are a really good trio. Talented, experienced, leaders.
14. An old fashioned butt kicking.
15. Someone needs to emerge as a leader. Howard obviously will be and is trying now. But an upperclassman really needs to grow a pair.
Positives: KR hit some shots. HC found his game late. The stage did not look too big for Howard. Scored 80+ against Wisconsin.
Negatives: Lack of size, lack of leadership, no one grabbing the reins when things go sideways. Gave up 90+ to Wisconsin.
15 is a big problem. I think SwaggyDu could be the person, but so many better scorers makes it difficult for him to assert himself....right now leaderless.
Wojo was the reason we lost today. Does not have the players back.
1. howard is a keeper
2. hauser couldn't get a call
3. happ abused fisher
4. their seniors played well, with the exception of reinhardt ours were terrible
5. another big game that is lost. this team will fight to make the nit. very disappointing.
6. yet another meltdown that wojo cannot correct. pretty consistent theme.
7. at least our youngsters seem more talented than buckys. whether that translates into anything in the future i have no idea.
8. i have basically zero confidence in a wojo coached team
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on December 10, 2016, 03:21:20 PM
Wojo was the reason we lost today. Does not have the players back.
You're an idiot.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on December 10, 2016, 03:21:20 PM
Wojo was the reason we lost today. Does not have the players back.
Bullsh!t. The players played in the first half. The players stood around for 12 minutes of the second half. On both ends of the floor.
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on December 10, 2016, 03:22:35 PM
1. howard is a keeper
2. hauser couldn't get a call
3. happ abused fisher
4. their seniors played well, with the exception of reinhardt ours were terrible
5. another big game that is lost. this team will fight to make the nit. very disappointing.
6. yet another meltdown that wojo cannot correct. pretty consistent theme.
7. at least our youngsters seem more talented than buckys. whether that translates into anything in the future i have no idea.
8. i have basically zero confidence in a wojo coached team
Is it Wojo's fault Sam had 0, JJJ had 4, Cheatham had maybe 2 prior to the game being decided, and Luke's matchup had more impact on the game than Luke did despite Luke playing the full game while his matchup played half the game?
Let's be honest. The stat on consecutive games started, with those players being a part of probably the best era in UW history, compared to MU's consecutive games started. Starting two freshman, against a senior dominated team with FF experience.
We lost by only 9, if we had an on floor leader who could have taken over and calmed things down during the 16-0 run, we would have had a shot. That alone is impressive. People expecting much more are delusional.
This had nothing to do with Wojo. This had everything to do with a bigger and more experienced team.
Luke is just getting abused in pick and roll. And MU didn't extend it like the have previously. But he is slow and just can't guard in space. What can Wojo do? There is no other size on the team. A guy like Eke is going to be real asset next year to protect the rim in those situations.
Keep Wojo for recruiting
Find someone to actually coach
When Wisconsin started their run, that is when Luke needs to demand the ball. When Haanif or JjJ need to step up and commit to getting a good shot or making a big defensive stop. That is how Lazar, Jae, Jimmy, DJO, Vander, DJames, Jerel, Wes did it. That is why they are looked upon as legends. Not by pouting and making stupid passes and fouls and whining when they don't get a call and getting beat down the floor.
Disagree with #3. First half was good, but too many stupid turnovers by MU.
fisher has been here how long and he still can't guard a pick and roll? that is coaching
the team starts playing poorly and all our guys panic. wojo has consistently been unable to correct this. he is a terrible game manager and cannot correct things our team is doing wrong. i agree with the statement that we can keep him around (as a head coach) to recruit. find someone else who can coach the games
Hauser, zero points and one shot taken. That being 20 seconds into game
JJJ had 4 points and 3 turnovers and was on/off the bench like a hockey player.
Rowsey is explosive.
Glad to see Cheatham get it going in second half, brutal in first.
Reinhardt bailed out MU in first, but no basket in second, only free throws.
UW is very good with Happ in there. Senior leadership and very well coached.
Losing leads in second half is contagious, MU needs to find a way to hold.
MU will need a big man next year in worst way. Once Luke is gone, Heldt is not the answer. Even with all of Wisky's height, he hardly saw the floor. Otherwise, expect the same results. Onto the cupcakes and get it back together.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on December 10, 2016, 03:21:20 PM
Wojo was the reason we lost today. Does not have the players back.
Dude, just go away if you are just going to keep spewing nonsense
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on December 10, 2016, 03:32:41 PM
fisher has been here how long and he still can't guard a pick and roll? that is coaching
the team starts playing poorly and all our guys panic. wojo has consistently been unable to correct this. he is a terrible game manager and cannot correct things our team is doing wrong. i agree with the statement that we can keep him around (as a head coach) to recruit. find someone else who can coach the games
He cant guard pick and roll cause he is slow.
Not every loss is Wojo's fault. And people who come here after every loss on Wojo are a joke. He subbed in players like Duane and Katin who carried us in the first half. He went back to JJJ even though he played like junk most of the game. He even went small at the end.
You can blame Wojo for putting together a team that was too small to take on UW. There was not much he could have done today.
Down boys.
1) They are an experienced, senior-led team. We're not.
2) The way things went in the first half -- we were working extremely hard against a talented team -- showed we were going to have problems when the Rodent got his second wind. He did and we were toast.
3) Blame it on Wojo -- are you kidding me? The guy is a keeper and he'll get us there. But anyone who hoped for a deep tournament run (including the BE tournament) better wait a year.
4) Hauser proved to us he is a freshman.
5) I can only imagine how good we would be if Henry had stayed... but he didn't and so....
Markus Howard can really f*cking play. Defensively he is fearless.
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 10, 2016, 03:37:05 PM
Down boys.
1) They are an experienced, senior-led team. We're not.
2) The way things went in the first half -- we were working extremely hard against a talented team -- showed we were going to have problems when the Rodent got his second wind. He did and we were toast.
3) Blame it on Wojo -- are you kidding me? The guy is a keeper and he'll get us there. But anyone who hoped for a deep tournament run (including the BE tournament) better wait a year.
4) Hauser proved to us he is a freshman.
5) I can only imagine how good we would be if Henry had stayed... but he didn't and so....
on number 4: yes we need to wait a year, and then another year, and then another........
The team played really hard today but to offset lack of size, they have to play hard nosed consistent defense. Jjj's was terrible today and Reinhardt was just as bad. KR hit shots in first half but was awful in second half. When your seniors can't play defense in a huge rivalry game, it's hard to win.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 10, 2016, 03:28:23 PM
This had nothing to do with Wojo. This had everything to do with a bigger and more experienced team.
Luke is just getting abused in pick and roll. And MU didn't extend it like the have previously. But he is slow and just can't guard in space. What can Wojo do? There is no other size on the team. A guy like Eke is going to be real asset next year to protect the rim in those situations.
This willl be a constant theme going forward
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on December 10, 2016, 03:42:36 PM
on number 4: yes we need to wait a year, and then another year, and then another........
I think you are referring to number 3, but did you really think we were ready for the big time this year?
I still believe we're a tournament team, but we will not go deep. I think this team needs to grow and I trust it will. If we are playing in March like we did today, then perhaps Wojo needs to feel some warmth. But we have a lot of basketball left to play and we do have talent.
Quote from: warriorstrack on December 10, 2016, 03:48:53 PM
This willl be a constant theme going forward
Someone said this earlier but I think Wojo is going to recruit more quicker bigs like John in the future. Even if it means sacrificing some size.
Tower 912 had the best summary
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 10, 2016, 03:39:40 PM
Markus Howard can really f*cking play. Defensively he is fearless.
According to Wades he's our worst PG (behind Traci and Rowsey) on the offensive end. LOL
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 10, 2016, 03:50:56 PM
I think this team needs to grow and I trust it will.
Hope you're right. If Luke grows to 7'3", Sam to 6'11", JJJ to 6'8", Haani to 6'7" and Markus to 6'3" we'll be awesome!
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 03:16:36 PM
1. JjJ and HC were dreadful today. But maybe HC found something down the stretch.
2. Happ is better than Luke. His play turned the game at the start of the second half.
3. MU played as well as it could in the first half. Unable to sustain and the Badgers are good.
4. Sam played like a freshman up against the big state school today. Learning experience. He will get better.
5. MU is too small to guard a whole bunch of these guys
straight up. Double down, kick out, open shot, boom.
6. 16-0 run. 32-10 overall the first 10 minutes of the second half. At home. Nobody running any offense or getting the ball in to Fischer. Easy to blame Wojo, but the players have to run the offense. And play defense. And not make stupid, lazy passes or stupid, lazy fouls. And go after defensive rebounds.
7. FWIW, I had big loss in the poll.
8. KR saved us in the first half. Less so in the second.
9. My 9-year-old.... " Dad, I played better defense than that today."
10. Duane needs a shot to fall so that he can spend more time on the floor. His on-ball defense is the best on the team.
11. When you can't get a blatant elbowing call at home....... The ghost of Bo lingers. The refs DID NOT cost this game. But that call was flat out atrocious. And the Badger players can still whine and plead with the best.
12. But the team didn't quit. 26 solid minutes, 14 crap minutes.
13. Hayes, Koenig, Happ are a really good trio. Talented, experienced, leaders.
14. An old fashioned butt kicking.
15. Someone needs to emerge as a leader. Howard obviously will be and is trying now. But an upperclassman really needs to grow a pair.
Positives: KR hit some shots. HC found his game late. The stage did not look too big for Howard. Scored 80+ against Wisconsin.
Negatives: Lack of size, lack of leadership, no one grabbing the reins when things go sideways. Gave up 90+ to Wisconsin.
I can't help but wonder about the impact of Cohen's decision on the outcome of today's match
Quote from: keefe on December 10, 2016, 04:43:19 PM
I can't help but wonder about the impact of Cohen's decision on the outcome of today's match
Might have helped on Hayes, but it was Happ that swung the game. Sandy wouldn't have done much to help the offense.
Quote from: keefe on December 10, 2016, 04:43:19 PM
I can't help but wonder about the impact of Cohen's decision on the outcome of today's match
Cohen would have helped us win a couple games by scrappy defense and today was a game he would have made an impact on.
None. Not landing a legit 4 in lieu of KR impacted it far more.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on December 10, 2016, 04:47:34 PM
Cohen would have helped us win a couple games by scrappy defense and today was a game he would have made an impact on.
Lol. No.
Clearly keefe was joking.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 10, 2016, 04:01:26 PM
According to Wades he's our worst PG (behind Traci and Rowsey) on the offensive end. LOL
Depends on whether or not you know how to read. To someone who doesn't know how to read and comprehend the written word, yes, I said exactly that.
Not the reason we lost but I was at the game - was there any explanation on how Howard getting elbowed in the face was not changed after they looked at it?
They showed the video at the BC and it was horrendous.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 10, 2016, 04:52:47 PM
Not the reason we lost but I was at the game - was there any explanation on how Howard getting elbowed in the face was not changed after they looked at it?
They showed the video at the BC and it was horrendous.
Yes. They said Howard was crowding him too close and that the offensive player was simply moving in his "cylinder."
Bardo went on a rant about the NCAA changing rules and interpretations to the point that people don't know what a foul is. I have to agree. No idea if that is a foul or not. My guess is that with review it was right.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on December 10, 2016, 04:52:47 PM
Not the reason we lost but I was at the game - was there any explanation on how Howard getting elbowed in the face was not changed after they looked at it?
They showed the video at the BC and it was horrendous.
He was "in the dribbler's sphere."
Problem is, let's pretend you can't call an offensive foul because he was so up in his grill. Fine. But that's simply not a blocking foul at all. The only contact on that entire play was an elbow to the face. That's not a blocking foul on the defender.
The foul that sent Hayes to the line under the hoop down 8 with just inside 2 minutes left was horrendous as well. They said he hit his elbow but there was no contact at all. Every time MU got it from down 17 to within striking distance the whistles came out.
Wisconsin's starters had a combined 20 years in their bb program. That'll change next year when 4 of them go away. Only one player off their bench made any meaningful contribution. Experience matters.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on December 10, 2016, 04:47:34 PM
Cohen would have helped us win a couple games by scrappy defense and today was a game he would have made an impact on.
Start Cohen and utilize a coach from the MAC instead and it's a 18 pt. swing. Sign me up.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 10, 2016, 04:59:11 PM
He was "in the dribbler's sphere."
Problem is, let's pretend you can't call an offensive foul because he was so up in his grill. Fine. But that's simply not a blocking foul at all. The only contact on that entire play was an elbow to the face. That's not a blocking foul on the defender.
The foul that sent Hayes to the line under the hoop down 8 with just inside 2 minutes left was horrendous as well. They said he hit his elbow but there was no contact at all. Every time MU got it from down 17 to within striking distance the whistles came out.
That's the problem on that play. If it's not an offensive foul there's no f'n way it's a blocking foul.
It was blocking. Markus blocked the elbow with his face.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on December 10, 2016, 04:47:34 PM
Cohen would have helped us win a couple games by scrappy defense and today was a game he would have made an impact on.
He would need to be motivated to do that.
Go ahead and ban my profile for all I care. This program deserves to take some crap because this has been a complete derail the last 4 years. idk who to balme coaching, not getting the right talent or something else but my god the mediocre play is getting to be to much. so many silly turnovers and poor shots. the defense was some of the worst ive seen an MU team play. gotta be on the coahing to fix the fundamentals. the talent is there!! I just don't know but its tough
Disagree! Talent level is mediocre. Only Sam, Markus, and possibly Cheatham have da dna ta play da kinda ball we're expectin', ai na?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 10, 2016, 05:16:25 PM
Disagree! Talent level is mediocre. Only Sam, Markus, and possibly Cheatham have da dna ta play da kinda ball we're expectin', ai na?
True dat
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 10, 2016, 05:16:25 PM
Disagree! Talent level is mediocre. Only Sam, Markus, and possibly Cheatham have da dna ta play da kinda ball we're expectin', ai na?
Yep. For all the talk about talent on the team it is not showing up in the big games. Sam and Markus are the real deal, it is why they are starting. HC is clearly struggling, but he will come around. The rest of the players just seem lost. Occasional bright spots, but not enough to be a serious threat. Shaping up to be another long season for Warrior fans.
Guess we just get the fluke players that are top 100 top 50 out of highschool but end up being talentless.... EX. JJJ(27th) Duane(39th) Luke(31st) Hell KR was highly ranked.. say whatever you want about rankings but my god when we have so many highly rated players its hard to accept they all were flukes and don't have the talent to contend. I mean why are hauser and howard the real deal? Duane looked like the real deal his frosh year. so did luke. Guess every player MU gets is highly rated out of HS but has no talent.
YAWN. MUFINY is a dummy, PFheros whatever dude.
Was at the game. An awesome crowd (yes many UW fans but I was at the UW game last year and there were plenty MU fans).
The team needs to stop being flat in second half. I told my friend "we are going to lose because we play flat early in the second half."
Blame Wojo all you want, but if you want to blame him for recruiting a team that was beating a team that is starting 4 seniors with multiple final four appearances... then good for you MUFINY and PFheros. Buy yourself a Kentucky shirt so we don't have to listen to your sappy WHOA IS ME, BUZZ WON THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP AND CREAN IS SECOND COMING OF CHRIST. Take your negativity elsewhere.
Face it... we are young and played against hard against a team that is MUCH better than their #17 rank.
Thought we did quite well.
Quote from: Johnny B on December 10, 2016, 05:29:24 PM
Guess we just get the fluke players that are top 100 top 50 out of highschool but end up being talentless.... EX. JJJ(27th) Duane(39th) Luke(31st) Hell KR was highly ranked.. say whatever you want about rankings but my god when we have so many highly rated players its hard to accept they all were flukes and don't have the talent to contend. I mean why are hauser and howard the real deal? Duane looked like the real deal his frosh year. so did luke. Guess every player MU gets is highly rated out of HS but has no talent.
Luke barely played his freshman year....
Quote from: Newsdrms on December 10, 2016, 05:32:37 PM
Luke barely played his freshman year....
Excuse me. I mean his first year at MU
Quote from: Johnny B on December 10, 2016, 05:33:58 PM
Excuse me. I mean his first year at MU
Don't agree his best stats so far this year, his problem he is too slow on D out of position too often.
Players have good games, they have bad games. Coaches have good games, coaches have bad games. Wojo had a worse game than Sam. Sam is a Freshman, Wojo is a red-shirt Junior.
folks keep saying we need to upgrade the talent but i don't know what more we can do. this team is full of top 100 recruits. we have recruited some of the best in-state talent. either these kids are overhyped (in that case the talent evaluation skills of our recruiters isn't up to par), are just plain busts, or the players do not develop (ex: duane, looked great his freshman year, but really hasn't drastically improved....maybe somewhat defensively).
i'm not going to look it up but i bet that there are more top 100 players on this team than the team that made the elite 8 under buzz
I feel like Cheat took a step in the right direction with coming out of his slump.
Sam had an off day, he's a fresh.
Howard played fearless, he'll have some great games.
Where was JJJ in the 2nd?
This was what? Game number 10 and we still have huge defensive issues. On top of defensive issues that we have had the last 2 years. They exploited the pick and roll over and over again. And when they didn't, they just took it right by the defender. Way too many layups. Way to many open shots.
Either (1) Wojo doesn't know how to coach defense
(2) Wojo's defensive message to the players is not getting through
(3) Wojo's defensive schemes are just bad
Don't know but that is all on coaching. Why not pack it in defensively, go into a zone or some other defensive scheme? There was like 2 plays that the Badgers were running all game long and we were unable to stop them.
Besides that, Howard is a stud. He will be viewed as one of the best players ever to wear a MU uniform.
Quote from: tower912 on December 10, 2016, 03:16:36 PM
2. Happ is better than Luke. His play turned the game at the start of the second half.
10. Duane needs a shot to fall so that he can spend more time on the floor. His on-ball defense is the best on the team.
11. When you can't get a blatant elbowing call at home....... The ghost of Bo lingers. The refs DID NOT cost this game. But that call was flat out atrocious. And the Badger players can still whine and plead with the best.
1. We all knew before the game that Happ was better than Luke.
10. Duane is awful on offense right now.
11. Maybe there shoulda been a 'T' for the elbow, but the foul was clearly on Howard. Great effort though.
Quote from: brandx on December 10, 2016, 06:23:04 PM
1. We all knew before the game that Happ was better than Luke.
10. Duane is awful on offense right now.
11. Maybe there shoulda been a 'T' for the elbow, but the foul was clearly on Howard. Great effort though.
11. Did his face foul his elbow?
My understanding is that a player is allowed to move within their cylinder and any contact is the fault of the defender. I would blame the rule. Not the ref.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on December 10, 2016, 04:47:34 PM
Cohen would have helped us win a couple games by scrappy defense and today was a game he would have made an impact on.
1. Congrats for being too stupid to realize that keefe was yanking your chain.
2. Congrats for the Warriors losing. Otherwise you wouldn't have been able to be the happy whiner again.
3. Seriously, what does "Wojo doesn't have their backs" even mean ... besides you being good at spewing meaningless cliches?
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on December 10, 2016, 03:21:20 PM
Wojo was the reason we lost today. Does not have the players back.
Seriously, what does this mean? Explain please.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 10, 2016, 03:37:00 PM
He cant guard pick and roll cause he is slow.
But he can't guard a traditional low post player, either. He's just not a very good defender.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 10, 2016, 03:52:18 PM
Someone said this earlier but I think Wojo is going to recruit more quicker bigs like John in the future. Even if it means sacrificing some size.
This guy did. And yes. Wojo is learning.
Quote from: CTWarrior on December 10, 2016, 07:14:29 PM
But he can't guard a traditional low post player, either. He's just not a very good defender.
And when he is your only decent big guy, you are going to get killed at the rim.
Quote from: CTWarrior on December 10, 2016, 07:14:29 PM
But he can't guard a traditional low post player, either. He's just not a very good defender.
I think he can. He just needs to be much more aggressive. But he is also afraid of failing as he knows that leads to serious lack of height on the team.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 10, 2016, 07:29:23 PM
I think he can. He just needs to be much more aggressive. But he is also afraid of failing as he knows that leads to serious lack of height on the team.
You have a good point here and I think you are absolutely correct, but it doesn't change the fact that a dump down to a competent low post player is usually two points for the opposition. That can't continue if we are to be successful. If we are going to continue to have Luke play hands up defense, we have to double down more or something to help him out.
Quote from: Newsdrms on December 10, 2016, 05:32:37 PM
Luke barely played his freshman year....
Yeah, he had surgery on his shoulder.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 10, 2016, 03:28:23 PM
This had nothing to do with Wojo. This had everything to do with a bigger and more experienced team.
Luke is just getting abused in pick and roll. And MU didn't extend it like the have previously. But he is slow and just can't guard in space. What can Wojo do? There is no other size on the team. A guy like Eke is going to be real asset next year to protect the rim in those situations.
[/quot
I'll believe it when i see it.
Why luke hasn't bulked up over the years is beyond me. hes like a tall stick out there. Happ and other stronger bigs shove him around. Look at the builds of outule ochefu etc. you need be tough. play with a chip on your shoulder
Too many turnovers, but I actually don't think that was the reason we lost. We only had 12 for the game, versus 9 for Wisconsin.
This was our worst defensive performance of the season. Wisconsin shot 65% on 2-pointers and 44% from beyond the arc. Can't blame Luke alone for the total breakdown of pick-and-roll defense. It takes two players. Hannif tried everything he could, but simply couldn't guard Bronson Koenig. The Badgers set good screens all over the court, ran the pick-and-roll to perfection and exploited every opportunity.
KenPom now ranks our offense 3rd best in the Big East. Our defense: 8th. Not good. That might still be good enough for a 5th place conference finish and an NCAA bid. But hopefully this game serves as a wake-up call for the team.
JJJ needs to step up. KR needs to play with that energy every game
Quote from: fjm on December 10, 2016, 05:32:23 PM
YAWN. MUFINY is a dummy, PFheros whatever dude.
Was at the game. An awesome crowd (yes many UW fans but I was at the UW game last year and there were plenty MU fans).
The team needs to stop being flat in second half. I told my friend "we are going to lose because we play flat early in the second half."
Blame Wojo all you want, but if you want to blame him for recruiting a team that was beating a team that is starting 4 seniors with multiple final four appearances... then good for you MUFINY and PFheros. Buy yourself a Kentucky shirt so we don't have to listen to your sappy WHOA IS ME, BUZZ WON THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP AND CREAN IS SECOND COMING OF CHRIST. Take your negativity elsewhere.
Face it... we are young and played against hard against a team that is MUCH better than their #17 rank.
Thought we did quite well.
Losing by 9 at home is "doing quite well?"
MU bball has truly turned into an irrelevant program.
How do you explain Butlers success???? a bunch of 3 and boarder line 4 star recruits. not very athletic but still they are pretty damn good.
Quote from: Johnny B on December 10, 2016, 08:01:49 PM
How do you explain Butlers success???? a bunch of 3 and boarder line 4 star recruits. not very athletic but still they are pretty damn good.
Consistency. Since Licklighter took the job in '01, they have promoted from within and had the same philosophy. They know the types of guys they want, target them and they perform.
Marquette has to be patient. Running guys out of here isn't going to help.
When does Wojo find his defense?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 10, 2016, 08:08:08 PM
When does Wojo find his defense?
Maybe during the offseason he will find a good defensive minded assistant. Get some experience on that staff instead.of a.bunch of 30-somethings.
Where (Who) is missing the communication with Cheatham... he ran into a standing block, 3 straight times.
I woke up next to a gorgeous blond 21 years my junior and squeezed in a zesty session before my morning coffee. Today was a great day as I look back.
Quote from: keefe on December 10, 2016, 09:31:43 PM
I woke up next to a gorgeous blond 21 years my junior and squeezed in a zesty session before my morning coffee. Today was a great day as I look back.
I hope you tipped her well.
Quote from: Johnny B on December 10, 2016, 08:01:49 PM
How do you explain Butlers success???? a bunch of 3 and boarder line 4 star recruits. not very athletic but still they are pretty damn good.
Can you imagine what this board would look like if our loss today hadn't been to Becky but instead the almighty Sycamores of Indiana...State? And no, not with 60 year old Larry Bird either.
Yeesh.
Looking only at MU's offensive stats, you'd think it'd be a comfortable double-digit win.
Unfortunately, the D is absolutely horrid. There are slow rotations, no help, constant confusion on screens, finger-pointing, etc. It's literally high school JV level defense. That has to get corrected but I don't have a whole lot of confidence that it will be.
The outcome wasn't really a surprise but the continued terrible defense is what I fear is going to hold this team back all season.
Quote from: Johnny B on December 10, 2016, 08:01:49 PM
How do you explain Butlers success???? a bunch of 3 and boarder line 4 star recruits.
Were they paying to rent space at Hinkle Fieldhouse? Or were they dogs whose owners were boarding them at the kennel?
Dumping to Luke was not the solution. Happ stoned him and just waited on the hook into the lane to challenge and make him miss. KR defense poor and guys got around him quite easily. HC could not guard Bronson. Good plan by Bucky to not lose Sammy in the pick and roll and close out on him quick every time.
Vito Brown showed up to be the x factor. Howard looked fantastic! Last, freshmen vs seniors.
Ran the numbers. We lost all four factors this game. First time all season, didn't even happen during the Michigan debacle.
eFG%: 65.5% UW 55.2% MU
TO%: 12.9% UW 16.5% MU
OR%: 29.6% UW, 24.2% MU
FTR: 52.7% UW, 39.7% MU
UW is one of the best rebounding teams in the country so the OR% differential is a lot better than I would have expected. The FTR doesn't bother me either. UW's was inflated due to all the intentional fouls at the end.
Having an eFG% of 55.2% against one of the best defenses in the country is not too shabby. But allowing a 65.5% eFG% is going to lose you most games. To nobody's surprise, defense is an issue.
The one that concerns me the most is the TO%. We had won that factor in every game until the Fresno State game. We've now lost it twice in a row. We've seen more unforced errors and we've been forcing less turnovers. I'm hoping its just the result of a trap game and playing a very disciplined opponent. I think its fair to guess that this is also affecting our eFG differential as well. Losing that factor means less easy buckets in transition for us and more for our opponents. Gotta bring the disruption back. JJJ may make some of the most boneheaded plays but that is one area that he can help in.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 10, 2016, 04:50:30 PM
Depends on whether or not you know how to read. To someone who doesn't know how to read and comprehend the written word, yes, I said exactly that.
You're exact quote: "He might be the third best offensive point guard on the current roster" In another post: "As of now, he's the third best offensive point guard on our roster"
We have 3 PGs on the current roster. Third "best" = worst. So yeah, you said exactly that.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 10, 2016, 09:47:16 PM
I hope you tipped her well.
Hardly. She is tracking to be the next Mrs Crash
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 10, 2016, 06:57:02 PM
My understanding is that a player is allowed to move within their cylinder and any contact is the fault of the defender. I would blame the rule. Not the ref.
Who defines the cylinder? Is that like the ump defining the strike zone? If the defender can't violate the cylinder while the offensive player is moving then the ref always has to call a blocking foul and there is no such thing as a charging foul; but I guess the rule leaves it up to the ref.
Keefe
Sounds like life is treating you well. I am very happy to hear that, my friend.
Quote from: mufanatic on December 10, 2016, 06:20:36 PM
This was what? Game number 10 and we still have huge defensive issues. On top of defensive issues that we have had the last 2 years. They exploited the pick and roll over and over again. And when they didn't, they just took it right by the defender. Way too many layups. Way to many open shots.
Either (1) Wojo doesn't know how to coach defense
(2) Wojo's defensive message to the players is not getting through
(3) Wojo's defensive schemes are just bad
Don't know but that is all on coaching. Why not pack it in defensively, go into a zone or some other defensive scheme? There was like 2 plays that the Badgers were running all game long and we were unable to stop them.
Besides that, Howard is a stud. He will be viewed as one of the best players ever to wear a MU uniform.
What am I missing? Why not a zone or switch back aund forth? I know, because what is not what Duke does.
Awful game. Hate losing, especially to the rodents. Enjoyed the first half. It seemed like we were clueless in the second half. It was like a time warp. What happened to JJJ. He looked out of it, except for one good steal. Howard tried to fill the senior lack of leadership role but it's hard for a freshman to lead a disjointed team.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on December 11, 2016, 05:34:14 AM
Who defines the cylinder? Is that like the ump defining the strike zone? If the defender can't violate the cylinder while the offensive player is moving then the ref always has to call a blocking foul and there is no such thing as a charging foul; but I guess the rule leaves it up to the ref.
But that's the point right? Bardo was going off on that during the game - how the rules and interpretations change every year and we expect the refs to make split second decisions.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 11, 2016, 12:22:46 AM
You're exact quote: "He might be the third best offensive point guard on the current roster" In another post: "As of now, he's the third best offensive point guard on our roster"
We have 3 PGs on the current roster. Third "best" = worst. So yeah, you said exactly that.
Oh. So "might" and "as of now" are in there. Weird.
As I said, to someone who can't read, yes, I may have said exactly that. Thank you for furthering that exact point.
Quote from: vogue65 on December 11, 2016, 05:36:19 AM
What am I missing? Why not a zone or switch back aund forth? I know, because what is not what Duke does.
Or because we're small enough as it is, would we ever get an offensive possession without the other team scoring? And would we ever get out in transition and create turnovers?
Has nothing to do with Duke and everything to do with the fact that this team would get smoked every game if they played a zone defense.
There's a reason when Wojo had a very offensively challenged team his first season he played a lot of zone. Guess what? Wojo had still had a Duke background that year! Zones slow the pace and turn games into half court games. With the personnel that season our only hope was to go Bad News Bears and ugly up games to win. This season slowing the tempo and turning it into half court games would be disastrous. Thankfully Wojo
does have his Duke background and is a pretty smart guy and understands this.
Quote from: keefe on December 11, 2016, 01:53:53 AM
Hardly. She is tracking to be the next Mrs Crash
You go dude. Younger broads keep da heart healthy, ai na?
Quote from: wadesworld on December 10, 2016, 04:59:11 PM
He was "in the dribbler's sphere."
Problem is, let's pretend you can't call an offensive foul because he was so up in his grill. Fine. But that's simply not a blocking foul at all. The only contact on that entire play was an elbow to the face. That's not a blocking foul on the defender.
The foul that sent Hayes to the line under the hoop down 8 with just inside 2 minutes left was horrendous as well. They said he hit his elbow but there was no contact at all. Every time MU got it from down 17 to within striking distance the whistles came out.
The problem with the play was that the "sphere" moved because he dragged his pivot foot in order to reach Howard with the elbow. This was a horrible call. Refs should have reversed it, called a travel, and given the ball to MU. Unfortunately it seems they can only review the specific call that was made... and this needs to be fixed. if you're going to take the time to review a call, review the play.
Wisconsin- 1.53 point per possession in the 2nd half
Gasaway tweeted this this morning:
https://twitter.com/JohnGasaway/status/807954446990929921
Morning after thoughts.... we've lived through ass-kickings before and survived. We'll survive this one, too.
The offense looked really good for 30 minutes. Scored >80 points with a 10 minute dry spell against Wisconsin. Wow.
Two games in 18 days. If ever there was a time for Wojo to change his defensive structure, this is it.
It is time for the upperclassmen to step up and assume the mantle of leadership. Channel their inner dirtbags.
Accept that there are going to be more games where MU puts up a lot of points and loses. The tourney is not out of reach. It comes down to whether this team ever plays defense.
Quote from: tower912 on December 11, 2016, 09:30:58 AMAccept that there are going to be more games where MU puts up a lot of points and loses. The tourney is not out of reach. It comes down to whether this team ever plays defense.
Good points. Hate to lose to Wisconsin, but this game didn't end our tournament chances. We don't have a bad loss yet — with 8 conference games against Top 25 teams ahead to build our resume. Need the defense to start trending the other way.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 11, 2016, 08:16:37 AM
Oh. So "might" and "as of now" are in there. Weird.
As I said, to someone who can't read, yes, I may have said exactly that. Thank you for furthering that exact point.
Sorry, but anyone who has seen these three guys play and has a good eye knows that "at this point Markus is our 3rd best (worst) offensive point guard" was wrong a week ago, is wrong today and will be wrong forever going forward.
I can read fine. You, however, evidently can't see.
Quote from: tower912 on December 11, 2016, 09:30:58 AM
The tourney is not out of reach. It comes down to whether this team ever plays defense.
No it comes down to can Wojo strategize and coach defense.
It's a consistent theme over his tenure so I won't hold my breathe. While tourney is not out of reach, I don't see us being there as the defense is just that bad.
Quote from: mufanatic on December 11, 2016, 10:26:06 AM
No it comes down to can Wojo strategize and coach defense.
It's a consistent theme over his tenure so I won't hold my breathe. While tourney is not out of reach, I don't see us being there as the defense is just that bad.
We were a solid defensive team his first year. We were a solid defensive team last year until the last 6 games or so. We have been bad all year this season. But it hasn't been a problem his whole tenure.
Quote from: keefe on December 11, 2016, 01:53:53 AM
Hardly. She is tracking to be the next Mrs Crash
So your dating a girl that is about to crash.
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on December 11, 2016, 10:32:02 AM
We were a solid defensive team his first year. We were a solid defensive team last year until the last 6 games or so. We have been bad all year this season. But it hasn't been a problem his whole tenure.
I would say it has been though. We looked okay defensively the first year and part of the second because we played zone. Zone can make a bad defensive team look okay. But it killed our offense. When we've used Wojos defense, we've been bad. I think it's a personnel issue. Luke is too slow footed to be effective in this scheme. For better or worse, Wojo has decided to stay the course this season and teach his system. Hopefully it pays off next season.
Buzz was better at matching his schemes to his personnel. I don't know that Wojo can do that yet.
My Quick overview:
1) Loss a game we were predicted to Lose.
2) Team never Folded even with a 17 points to overcome late in the game.
3) Even with our Bad defense, if Sam could have played more our 3's shooters (Markus, Andrew & Sam) might have overcome our defensive weakness.
4) It's History, I'm spending more time looking out the Windshield, not so much the Rearview mirror.
Quote from: keefe on December 10, 2016, 09:31:43 PM
I woke up next to a gorgeous blond 21 years my junior and squeezed in a zesty session before my morning coffee. Today was a great day as I look back.
I've always wanted a golden retriever, but I hear they shed.
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on December 11, 2016, 10:32:02 AM
We were a solid defensive team his first year. We were a solid defensive team last year until the last 6 games or so. We have been bad all year this season. But it hasn't been a problem his whole tenure.
As the season goes along offenses get better and I think most teams offenses improve more than the same teams' defenses. This would be in line with your statement. It is not that our defense got worse the last 6 games, it just did not keep up with the overall improvement in the other teams' offenses. There are some posters that did not think Henry was a good defensive player and they have been right when it came to covering certain players one on one, but Henry's 6'11 size greatly helped MU's team defense last year. Hauser would be a better defender, if he was 4" taller.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 11, 2016, 10:18:25 AM
Sorry, but anyone who has seen these three guys play and has a good eye knows that "at this point Markus is our 3rd best (worst) offensive point guard" was wrong a week ago, is wrong today and will be wrong forever going forward.
I can read fine. You, however, evidently can't see.
Yeah...no. Howard had not shown anything at all against teams that were better than his Findlay Prep team. So if you were impressed by his 8 combined points in 3 games against high majors to that point than more power to you.
To that point, Howard had been our 3rd best point guard against any team that mattered. Your inability to read leads you to misinterpret what was accurately stated, that to that point he was our 3rd best point guard.
Quote from: Loose Cannon on December 11, 2016, 10:39:26 AM
My Quick overview:
3) Even with our Bad defense, if Sam could have played more our 3's shooters (Markus, Andrew & Sam) might have overcome our defensive weakness.
4) It's History, I'm spending more time looking out the Windshield, not so much the Rearview mirror.
And if Happ didn't pick up 2 fouls, less then 2 minutes into the game, we might have been losing at halftime. Hauser had an awful game. An extra 5 minutes of playing time was not going to solve our defensive problems.
Yes we never gave up and that is great but there was no way we were going to sustain the success we had in the first half for the entire game. We were giving up layups all game long and the only reason we had the lead was Katin being red hot for 5 minutes and Happ being on the pine for 18 minutes of the first half.
That we looked bad offensively for 10 minutes is not the problem although it is turning into a trend. That we can't stop anyone defensively on a consistent basis is a huge problem.
And you look at history to learn from it. Otherwise problems never get fixed.
Happ's two quick fouls were do the Gard's game plan not working. I do not remember a team going so aggresively for a steal everytime Fischer had the ball. It was obvious that UW thought they could get Fischer to turn over the ball and the game plan backfired. Happ got two quick fouls and later on in the half Brown also got in foul trouble.
In the second half I thought Fischer played good defense on Happ without fouling. I still do not know how Happ was able to make those two shots he threw almost straight up off the back board. The first I thought was luck, but then he made the same shot again.
Hauser simply couldn't guard Hayes on the drive. He couldn't stay in front of him.
Markus, Haanif, Sam and the rest of the team need to be better man-to-man defenders. The problem isn't that they too slow or too small. Maurice Acker, David Cubillan and Lazar Hayward were all undersized for their defensive positions. And to cite a past Wisconsin example, Mike Kelley was far from the world's greatest athlete. Effort is part of it. But good face-up defense is about knowing your opponent, anticipation, technique — and effective help from the other four guys on the floor.
This team isn't playing good defense individually, and they're not playing together as a team. In my view, that's far more important than scheme. Fortunately, defensive technique, communication and help are all correctable.
Quote from: Marcus92 on December 11, 2016, 11:23:35 AM
Hauser simply couldn't guard Hayes on the drive. He couldn't stay in front of him.
Markus, Haanif, Sam and the rest of the team need to be better man-to-man defenders. The problem isn't that they too slow or too small. Maurice Acker, David Cubillan and Lazar Hayward were all undersized for their defensive positions. And to cite a past Wisconsin example, Mike Kelley was far from the world's greatest athlete. Effort is part of it. But good face-up defense is about knowing your opponent, anticipation, technique — and effective help from the other four guys on the floor.
This team isn't playing good defense individually, and they're not playing together as a team. In my view, that's far more important than scheme. Fortunately, defensive technique, communication and help are all correctable.
I have watched on TV plenty of Big Ten players who could not cover Hayes.
Quote from: bilsu on December 11, 2016, 12:11:42 PMI have watched on TV plenty of Big Ten players who could not cover Hayes.
Good point. Driving to the basket is the strongest part of Hayes' game. He's one of the best in the Big Ten. And the rules of college basketball favor the offense. Everybody gets beat.
If you go by DRtg, Sam is one of the team's top 3 defenders (after JaJuan and Luke). But Sam can definitely improve here. Beyond that, communication and help defense has to get better for the entire team. Let's see how they respond.