When is it customary to announce your intentions to either stay in school or go to the draft? How often does it happen this week, during the tournament, after the tournament, etc.? Thanks.
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 15, 2016, 12:26:26 PM
When is it customary to announce your intentions to either stay in school or go to the draft? How often does it happen this week, during the tournament, after the tournament, etc.? Thanks.
IIRC, most typically announce shortly after they are done playing. So an announcement could come soon. But that is not a rule by any stretch. Theres always several who wait until the last couple of days to announce.
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on March 15, 2016, 12:31:38 PM
IIRC, most typically announce shortly after they are done playing. So an announcement could come soon. But that is not a rule by any stretch. Theres always several who wait until the last couple of days to announce.
FWIW it was announced that Ben Simmon's had hired Lebron's agent yesterday.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on March 15, 2016, 12:33:52 PM
FWIW it was announced that Ben Simmon's had hired Lebron's agent yesterday.
Did they make the announcement into a TV show?
He'll likely announce once he signs with an agent, otherwise it will likely come out that he signed with an agent.
Well they now have until after the combine to decide. I don't know why you would declare beforehand. You get hurt in the combine, you can always go back to college and rehab (or rehab while being paid millions - if you're still that good to get drafted high).
More here:
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/01/13/nba-draft-early-entry-deadline-ncaa-extended-combine
But still why not wait.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2016, 12:35:44 PM
Did they make the announcement into a TV show?
Yeah but it got leaked on twitter so nobody watched
Quote from: T-Bone on March 15, 2016, 12:56:46 PM
Well they now have until after the combine to decide. I don't know why you would declare beforehand. You get hurt in the combine, you can always go back to college and rehab (or rehab while being paid millions - if you're still that good to get drafted high).
More here:
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2016/01/13/nba-draft-early-entry-deadline-ncaa-extended-combine
But still why not wait.
I'm guessing some of the guys who declare early haven't been going to class (paging Ben Simmons), so they wouldn't be eligible to return anyway.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2016, 01:13:30 PM
I'm guessing some of the guys who declare early haven't been going to class (paging Ben Simmons), so they wouldn't be eligible to return anyway.
That's a good question: Is Ellenson still attending classes?
I'm not sure why Henry has to announce he's coming back next season to lead us to the Final Four!
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2016, 01:13:30 PM
I'm guessing some of the guys who declare early haven't been going to class (paging Ben Simmons), so they wouldn't be eligible to return anyway.
In Simmons case, it doesn't matter if he was attending classes or not. He is going to be gone very early. Might as well hire an agent to get working on non-basketball deals (shoes, etc.) and to have them front the costs of getting access to the best pre-draft training possible.
If Henry wants to wait to determine his status after the combine that's fine. But that does come at a cost.
Re: Simmons
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/14906627/ben-simmons-lsu-tigers-ineligible-wooden-award
"Consideration should be given to scholastic achievement and aspirations. All candidates must have a cumulative 2.00 grade point average since enrolling in their current university."
Which may be why LSU wouldn't certify him to be eligible for the Woodie.
-----
And yes, that makes sense to start working out with pre-combine/draft trainers. So, plenty of reason to declare early still.
I doubt Simmons really needs to shore up his draft stock via trainers etc. all that much. I have not seen any predictions slotting him lower than #2.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 15, 2016, 01:32:15 PM
In Simmons case, it doesn't matter if he was attending classes or not. He is going to be gone very early. Might as well hire an agent to get working on non-basketball deals (shoes, etc.) and to have them front the costs of getting access to the best pre-draft training possible.
If Henry wants to wait to determine his status after the combine that's fine. But that does come at a cost.
I'm not sure I've seen a mock draft in at least 6 months that has projected Henry as anything but a lottery pick. The exact selection number has varied, but 4-10 seems most common.
Players who expect to be drafted up there rarely take part in the combine, and their agents (or "advisers") usually advise against it. Why risk a poor showing that can drop a guy 3-5 spots when the player is seemingly locked in as a top 10?
So if that really is the case -- and Henry's "advisers" should be able to determine it to some degree of certainty by making some inquiries -- Henry need not wait until the combine to decide if he is going or staying.
And if he need not wait to decide, he need not wait to announce.
I won't "hold it against him" if he waits -- and I'm sure he's concerned about what I think! -- because it is his prerogative. But if he really cares about Wojo and the program, he will not delay his announcement significantly.
Quote from: MU82 on March 15, 2016, 02:31:41 PM
I'm not sure I've seen a mock draft in at least 6 months that has projected Henry as anything but a lottery pick. The exact selection number has varied, but 4-10 seems most common.
Players who expect to be drafted up there rarely take part in the combine, and their agents (or "advisers") usually advise against it. Why risk a poor showing that can drop a guy 3-5 spots when the player is seemingly locked in as a top 10?
So if that really is the case -- and Henry's "advisers" should be able to determine it to some degree of certainty by making some inquiries -- Henry need not wait until the combine to decide if he is going or staying.
And if he need not wait to decide, he need not wait to announce.
I won't "hold it against him" if he waits -- and I'm sure he's concerned about what I think! -- because it is his prerogative. But if he really cares about Wojo and the program, he will not delay his announcement significantly.
I think Wojo will know (see: already knows) well before any announcement comes public.
Quote from: MU82 on March 15, 2016, 02:31:41 PM
I'm not sure I've seen a mock draft in at least 6 months that has projected Henry as anything but a lottery pick. The exact selection number has varied, but 4-10 seems most common.
Players who expect to be drafted up there rarely take part in the combine, and their agents (or "advisers") usually advise against it. Why risk a poor showing that can drop a guy 3-5 spots when the player is seemingly locked in as a top 10?
So if that really is the case -- and Henry's "advisers" should be able to determine it to some degree of certainty by making some inquiries -- Henry need not wait until the combine to decide if he is going or staying.
And if he need not wait to decide, he need not wait to announce.
I won't "hold it against him" if he waits -- and I'm sure he's concerned about what I think! -- because it is his prerogative. But if he really cares about Wojo and the program, he will not delay his announcement significantly.
Depends on which mock...
http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft #17
http://www.si.com/nba/2016/03/11/nba...brandon-ingram #15
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2016/ #8
http://hoopshype.com/2016/02/27/nba-mock-draft-2016/ #18
So, while obviously these things can change based on workouts etc, if you are to believe any of these mocks, 3 of the 4 actually have him outside the lottery.
thinking wojo knows exactly how to handle this type of situation...
Quote from: muguru on March 15, 2016, 02:40:02 PM
Depends on which mock...
http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft #17
http://www.si.com/nba/2016/03/11/nba...brandon-ingram #15
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2016/ #8
http://hoopshype.com/2016/02/27/nba-mock-draft-2016/ #18
So, while obviously these things can change based on workouts etc, if you are to believe any of these mocks, 3 of the 4 actually have him outside the lottery.
Thanks. I hadn't seen those.
I still think Henry's "people" probably will feel he need not participate in all of the physical "measurable" activities.
Those are more for second-rounders trying to get into the first, for lesser prospects trying to get drafted, etc. They are for the Jerel McNeals and the Dee Browns, and the rule allowing them to wait until after the combine before declaring is a very positive step for athletes.
And I agree with others who say Wojo will know how to handle this. He was the top assistant in a program that had 1-and-dones almost every year.
The earliest I saw an underclassman last year declaring was March 30 for Myles Turner of Texas. My guess is Henry will at least give it a week until after the first weekend of the tournament is done. Though as mentioned, until he signs with an agent, he is eligible to return. The cutoff this year isn't until June 13 to come back to school.
One of the reasons I've heard (and it sounds like a good one) that Henry would leave now...is that the draft is relatively weak this year and he would go higher and have more upfront value.
So is 2017 draft better vs 2016? I googled one page that thinks 2017 has a lot of talent. mock drafts have a bunch of now HS seniors and some foreign guys...
So does it make it even more wise for Henry to get out now and get more early money.
Quote from: MUBigDance on March 15, 2016, 04:11:45 PM
One of the reasons I've heard (and it sounds like a good one) that Henry would leave now...is that the draft is relatively weak this year and he would go higher and have more upfront value.
So is 2017 draft better vs 2016? I googled one page that thinks 2017 has a lot of talent. mock drafts have a bunch of now HS seniors and some foreign guys...
So does it make it even more wise for Henry to get out now and get more early money.
I don't follow the mock drafts or the year-to-year comparisons, but that seems to be the feeling.
Not saying this will happen with Henry but I remember a few years back Marcus Smart from OK St was supposed to be a top 3 pick in the very weak 2013 draft, but decided to return for his sophomore year. I remember I was shocked when that happened, and he entered the 2014 draft after his sophomore year in what was supposed to be a much stronger draft and he went in the 5-10 range I believe. I have a gut feeling Henry comes back for his sophomore year, not sure why.
Quote from: keefe on March 15, 2016, 01:19:58 PM
That's a good question: Is Ellenson still attending classes?
Seen him around with a backpack each of the last 2 days, hope thats a good sign
If Henry is going, he should get out of Milwaukee and start working with a trainer.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 15, 2016, 12:35:44 PM
Did they make the announcement into a TV show?
The 30 for 30 debuts thus sunday.
Quote from: MUVander on March 15, 2016, 08:25:39 PM
Not saying this will happen with Henry but I remember a few years back Marcus Smart from OK St was supposed to be a top 3 pick in the very weak 2013 draft, but decided to return for his sophomore year. I remember I was shocked when that happened, and he entered the 2014 draft after his sophomore year in what was supposed to be a much stronger draft and he went in the 5-10 range I believe. I have a gut feeling Henry comes back for his sophomore year, not sure why.
What about Kaminsky? Did his draft position improve or decline because he came back his senior year?
I guess Henry's decision will also be a lot like Kaminsky. His family, like Kaminsky, is not desperate for money. If, like Kaminsky, he really enjoys playing college ball, especially with his brother, he might return.
So, how much fun did Henry have this year?
Quote from: bobnoxious on March 15, 2016, 09:08:59 PM
Seen him around with a backpack each of the last 2 days, hope thats a good sign
Backpack is the new walking boot on Scoop?
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 16, 2016, 07:05:50 AM
Backpack is the new walking boot on Scoop?
Guys WITHOUT backpacks walking around must be declaring for the draft.
Quote from: bobnoxious on March 15, 2016, 09:08:59 PM
Seen him around with a backpack each of the last 2 days, hope thats a good sign
That is where he carries all his cash....must be declaring
Quote from: bobnoxious on March 15, 2016, 09:08:59 PM
Seen him around with a backpack each of the last 2 days, hope thats a good sign
HE keeps his walking boot in his backpack.
Marcus Smart is probably the best example of someone staying who was a top 3 pick. That's what all the optimists should be hoping for.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 16, 2016, 01:17:29 PM
Marcus Smart is probably the best example of someone staying who was a top 3 pick. That's what all the optimists should be hoping for.
Griffin and Barnes
Not sure if this has been discussed, but given Henry comes from a stable home with presumptively stable finances, might some additional motivation to stay be that he'll have two years of college under his belt when he bolts for the draft. Thus, he'll be half way home to a degree should he ever want to graduate in the future. Two more years of school is a heck of lot less daunting than three more years.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 16, 2016, 07:03:08 AM
What about Kaminsky? Did his draft position improve or decline because he came back his senior year?
I guess Henry's decision will also be a lot like Kaminsky. His family, like Kaminsky, is not desperate for money. If, like Kaminsky, he really enjoys playing college ball, especially with his brother, he might return.
So, how much fun did Henry have this year?
Kaminsky is a terrible comparison, he played all 4 years.
What Zeller did is what gives me a sliver of hope that Henry will come back, predicted to be a top 10 pick in 2012, came back for Sophmore year, and went #4.
Reason he gave was that he was enjoying his college experience.
In Chad Ford's first report of who's in/who's out of this year's draft, based on discussions with GM's, scouts, and people close to the players, he lists Henry on his "One foot out the door list" - people leaning toward the draft but not announced. The list also includes Jaylen Brown, Brandon Ingram, Kris Dunn and of course, Ben Simmons.
Quote from: MUMonster03 on March 16, 2016, 01:51:33 PM
Kaminsky is a terrible comparison, he played all 4 years.
What Zeller did is what gives me a sliver of hope that Henry will come back, predicted to be a top 10 pick in 2012, came back for Sophmore year, and went #4.
Reason he gave was that he was enjoying his college experience.
It does happen every once in a while. It also hasnt happened in a few years so college basketball is due for a lottery pick to come back to school for a year ;D
It also looks like the rookie pay scale is not attached to the salary cap. So with salaries going up 20% next year the only thing that matters is getting to UFA's. Henry IMO will be a 10-15 pick but by time he gets to FA the AVG NBA player salary is going to be 10 MIL where now its 5 mil. IE rookie contracts were picked with the idea the Rev would go up 5% a year and not 25%. So Rookie salaries are going to look real Cheap compared to even bench players soon.
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 16, 2016, 01:28:59 PM
Not sure if this has been discussed, but given Henry comes from a stable home with presumptively stable finances, might some additional motivation to stay be that he'll have two years of college under his belt when he bolts for the draft. Thus, he'll be half way home to a degree should he ever want to graduate in the future. Two more years of school is a heck of lot less daunting than three more years.
How close he is to a degree is probably 0.00% of his decision.
Quote from: kmwtrucks on March 16, 2016, 02:15:28 PM
It also looks like the rookie pay scale is not attached to the salary cap. So with salaries going up 20% next year the only thing that matters is getting to UFA's. Henry IMO will be a 10-15 pick but by time he gets to FA the AVG NBA player salary is going to be 10 MIL where now its 5 mil. IE rookie contracts were picked with the idea the Rev would go up 5% a year and not 25%. So Rookie salaries are going to look real Cheap compared to even bench players soon.
Yup (re: the money). He gowne.
That pic of him as SOTG...I always think he's saying, "Sayonara" and salutes MU off.
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 16, 2016, 02:24:31 PM
How close he is to a degree is probably 0.00% of his decision.
Yup (re: the money). He gowne.
I'm hearing it's 90%+ that he's gone....but what if he pulls a shocker and returns? What's your reaction going to be after this act you've been pulling all year?
I think you're right, but if he shocks us you're going to have a ton of backtracking to do.
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on March 16, 2016, 03:21:19 PM
I'm hearing it's 90%+ that he's gone....but what if he pulls a shocker and returns? What's your reaction going to be after this act you've been pulling all year?
I think you're right, but if he shocks us you're going to have a ton of backtracking to do.
He gowne.
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 16, 2016, 03:36:24 PM
He gowne.
I share your confidence that he is leaving but I'm just curious from where your confidence stems. Any inside knowledge or are you just aware of the fact that he's a likely top 10er and as such will almost certainly leave?
He's a lottery pick. Not turning that down for the privilege of playing for room, board, and tuition.
Quote from: RKMU123 on March 16, 2016, 04:20:46 PM
I share your confidence that he is leaving but I'm just curious from where your confidence stems. Any inside knowledge or are you just aware of the fact that he's a likely top 10er and as such will almost certainly leave?
Wades stakes out positions with certainty and never wavers.
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 16, 2016, 04:23:18 PM
He's a lottery pick. Not turning that down for the privilege of playing for room, board, and tuition.
Yep. Nobody EVER has done that.
Except Blake Griffin. And Joakim Noah. And Marcus Smart. And Tim Duncan. And Shaquille O'Neal. And Harrison Barnes. And ...
Nobody!
Quote from: MU82 on March 16, 2016, 04:27:36 PM
Yep. Nobody EVER has done that.
Except Blake Griffin. And Joakim Noah. And Marcus Smart. And Tim Duncan. And Shaquille O'Neal. And Harrison Barnes. And ...
Nobody!
Some need to shield themselves from disappointment.
Quote from: RKMU123 on March 16, 2016, 04:20:46 PM
I share your confidence that he is leaving but I'm just curious from where your confidence stems. Any inside knowledge or are you just aware of the fact that he's a likely top 10er and as such will almost certainly leave?
The second one.
Quote from: RKMU123 on March 16, 2016, 04:20:46 PM
I share your confidence that he is leaving but I'm just curious from where your confidence stems. Any inside knowledge or are you just aware of the fact that he's a likely top 10er and as such will almost certainly leave?
Haha welcome to the internet, this guy is no more of an insider than anyone else pretending to be one on here. He's a graduate of Marquette who has never donated a dollar to MU/ has no connection to MU, aau or high school basketball in Wisconsin. He's just bullcraptin ya and everyone else on here but it's an Internet message board and he can do as he wants with no accountability. Henry told the coaching staff before he even committed that he was gone if he had the opportunity to be a lottery pick, that's where the confidence stems from. Things change so who knows, it's Henry's decision we just need to take a step back and let him make it.
Quote from: Smokin' Jae on March 16, 2016, 05:26:38 PM
Haha welcome to the internet, this guy is no more of an insider than anyone else pretending to be one on here. He's a graduate of Marquette who has never donated a dollar to MU/ has no connection to MU, aau or high school basketball in Wisconsin. He's just bullcraptin ya and everyone else on here but it's an Internet message board and he can do as he wants with no accountability. Henry told the coaching staff before he even committed that he was gone if he had the opportunity to be a lottery pick, that's where the confidence stems from. Things change so who knows, it's Henry's decision we just need to take a step back and let him make it.
He gowne.
Anyhow, your post is pretty contradictory. I'm a grad but don't have any connections to MU? Hmm. Interesting take on that.
Are you my financial advisor? Didn't realize you were interested in Marquette hoops Dan!
Don't really care what people think about my information so not going to bother addressing that. Just figured you might want to edit your post so it at least doesn't contradict itself.
Quote from: Smokin' Jae on March 16, 2016, 05:26:38 PM
Haha welcome to the internet, this guy is no more of an insider than anyone else pretending to be one on here. He's a graduate of Marquette who has never donated a dollar to MU/ has no connection to MU, aau or high school basketball in Wisconsin. He's just bullcraptin ya and everyone else on here but it's an Internet message board and he can do as he wants with no accountability. Henry told the coaching staff before he even committed that he was gone if he had the opportunity to be a lottery pick, that's where the confidence stems from. Things change so who knows, it's Henry's decision we just need to take a step back and let him make it.
Nah, Wades does have some connection to the program. He's proved that before with information he's shared (first one to break the McKay story IIRC). But in this case, he likes stating his opinion/prediction/educated guess as a fact.
In all likelihood, HE is gonna be "gowne." But as of today, he has not made a decision, or at least shared a decision with anyone outside his immediate circle.
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 16, 2016, 04:37:38 PM
Some need to shield themselves from disappointment.
Either way, I don't think we as a fan base can lose.
HE takes the money and runs:
we get to watch the Draft Lottery as proud alums (as if we developed his game to get him here ;-) )...We are happy for his financial windfall, as he will no doubt give a little back to our school and program...Our school will get countless mentions as Henry gets in each NBA contest....our '16-'17 WarriorEagles will no longer stand around watching big Hank operate.....said players will each feel the positive pressure to up their individual "games" and skill-sets...JJJ will have free reign to emerge as "The Man", on his way to 1stTeamBigEast honors...Henry will make a couple trips to the AL as an NBA player as Wojo brings in some key recruits during those visits.
Henry stays: DUH, no need to elaborate. So yes, we all want him back to play one more year and watch his bro graduate, and make a deep NCAA run.
As a fan and horseplayer, It's like having a live pick6 ticket in the final leg at Santa Anita to two horses in a two horse race. One is paying me $50,000, the other is paying $250,000. Sure we want the longshot to stride home, but we'll take the chalk and count our blessings.
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 16, 2016, 01:28:59 PM
Not sure if this has been discussed, but given Henry comes from a stable home with presumptively stable finances, might some additional motivation to stay be that he'll have two years of college under his belt when he bolts for the draft. Thus, he'll be half way home to a degree should he ever want to graduate in the future. Two more years of school is a heck of lot less daunting than three more years.
Lol
Quote from: MUMonster03 on March 16, 2016, 01:51:33 PM
Kaminsky is a terrible comparison, he played all 4 years.
What Zeller did is what gives me a sliver of hope that Henry will come back, predicted to be a top 10 pick in 2012, came back for Sophmore year, and went #4.
Reason he gave was that he was enjoying his college experience.
Yes, Zeller is a better example.
The Kaminsky worked because after his first two years, he was not going anywhere, unless he wanted to transfer to UIC. After his breakout junior year he could have come out and been drafted.
But like Zeller, Kaminsky returned for another year because he liked being in college.
So, how much does Henry like MU and the college experience?
I love the assumption that his parents don't need the money? Why?
They may have been maxing out every credit card they could find to pay for traveling teams, camps, travel etc.
No ones knows. I swear, if Henry was not "from up north" but rather "from Milwaukee" this whole board would call him gone.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 16, 2016, 08:36:20 PM
Yes, Zeller is a better example.
The Kaminsky worked because after his first two years, he was not going anywhere, unless he wanted to transfer to UIC. After his breakout junior year he could have come out and been drafted.
But like Zeller, Kaminsky returned for another year because he liked being in college.
So, how much does Henry like MU and the college experience?
I think the biggest thing working against Henry staying is actually one of the factors many think will influence him to stay. Not many kids come from a family where every single member is an accomplished athlete, all pushing each other from such a young age. It's almost a vocational thing. Both parents' jobs and livelihood have always been 100% based around sports. The pinnacle of basketball success is the NBA, and Henry has stated it's been his dream as long as he can remember. None of us are privy to the Ellensons' family conversations, but I just don't think it's a given the family will lobby him for staying an extra year.
The ellenson's current financial situation will play no factor in his decision to return/go pro. It's significant to note that the family (probably) doesn't "need" the money like some other players though. Last year during the NCAA game, the announcers said something about Stanley Johnson (Arizona) and how he was so happy he would be able to feed and take care of his mom. whether that applies to Henry I'm not sure, but some guys don't have the choice to stay/go.
Well, we have a dozen or so folks here who claim to know things. Do the Ellensons have money? Are they rich? Upper middle class? Solidly middle class? Lower middle and need some dough? Poor as hell and desperate?
It's silly for us to speculate when so many Scoopers are in the know!
Quote from: MU82 on March 16, 2016, 09:40:01 PM
Well, we have a dozen or so folks here who claim to know things. Do the Ellensons have money? Are they rich? Upper middle class? Solidly middle class? Lower middle and need some dough? Poor as hell and desperate?
It's silly for us to speculate when so many Scoopers are in the know!
They are solidly middle class. They live comfortably and certainly aren't struggling to get by or living pay check to pay check, but they're not wealthy like Hank will be in a few months.
I'm 100% certain he is gone.
If I hear different next week at the McDonald's AA festivities, I will come back and say so.
From @DraftExpress: Been told Ellenson camp already scheduling agent meetings, and only a matter of time until we get an official announcement on him entering.
He gone. Let's hope Wojo has something queued up in the wings.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on March 17, 2016, 11:37:29 AM
He gone. Let's hope Wojo has something queued up in the wings.
Sounds like it. It was fun to hang onto hope for as long as possible. Best of luck to HE in the League. He'll be a fine ambassador for MU.
Henry's dad responds:
John Ellenson @jcellenson
Henry got home at 11 last night I haven't even spoken with them yet. Hold your horses Jonathan.
John Ellenson @jcellenson
By the way, in Northern WI we don't have "camps" as you suggest, it's family, camps are for fishing swimming s'mores
Note: I still think he's gone, fwiw.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2016, 11:43:18 AM
Henry's dad responds:
John Ellenson @jcellenson
Henry got home at 11 last night I haven't even spoken with them yet. Hold your horses Jonathan.
John Ellenson @jcellenson
By the way, in Northern WI we don't have "camps" as you suggest, it's family, camps are for fishing swimming s'mores
Note: I still think he's gone, fwiw.
Elite level trolling by Mr. Ellenson
Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2016, 11:43:18 AM
Henry's dad responds:
John Ellenson @jcellenson
Henry got home at 11 last night I haven't even spoken with them yet. Hold your horses Jonathan.
John Ellenson @jcellenson
By the way, in Northern WI we don't have "camps" as you suggest, it's family, camps are for fishing swimming s'mores
Note: I still think he's gone, fwiw.
Haha, that's great! Best of luck to Henry whatever he decides.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 17, 2016, 11:43:18 AM
Henry's dad responds:
John Ellenson @jcellenson
Henry got home at 11 last night I haven't even spoken with them yet. Hold your horses Jonathan.
John Ellenson @jcellenson
By the way, in Northern WI we don't have "camps" as you suggest, it's family, camps are for fishing swimming s'mores
Note: I still think he's gone, fwiw.
That was a great response.
When the family looks at it, one consideration that may come into play is that if Henry leaves, Wally may actually end up with a bigger role next year. We have always speculated that Henry may want to continue playing with Wally, but this other scenario may be something that comes into play. Wally is a competitive guy and I am sure he wants to get on the floor just as much as he wants to see his brother do well for us. Not saying this is a big factor but it may be a factor.
Quote from: ZenyattasTapitColt on March 16, 2016, 08:55:24 PM
I think the biggest thing working against Henry staying is actually one of the factors many think will influence him to stay. Not many kids come from a family where every single member is an accomplished athlete, all pushing each other from such a young age. It's almost a vocational thing. Both parents' jobs and livelihood have always been 100% based around sports. The pinnacle of basketball success is the NBA, and Henry has stated it's been his dream as long as he can remember. None of us are privy to the Ellensons' family conversations, but I just don't think it's a given the family will lobby him for staying an extra year.
I agree with this 100% - probably the best stated explanation of why he'll leave. In Henry's world, this is AAA baseball. He wants to get to The Show.
From SI.com's draft rankings.
Rumor has it that Ellenson isn't set on coming out this year, but as of right now, he's in the lottery if he wants to be. He can run, he can shoot from range and rebound, and with strong workouts has a chance to go higher than this. Multiple scouts expressed concern with his lateral quickness, and as we've seen recently with Kevin Love, defensive limitations can hamper even the most skilled, talented bigs in this mold. There remains a whole lot to like here.
I fully expect HE to go, but I just wanted to get people's hopes up ;)
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 17, 2016, 03:54:17 PM
From SI.com's draft rankings.
Rumor has it that Ellenson isn't set on coming out this year, but as of right now, he's in the lottery if he wants to be. He can run, he can shoot from range and rebound, and with strong workouts has a chance to go higher than this. Multiple scouts expressed concern with his lateral quickness, and as we've seen recently with Kevin Love, defensive limitations can hamper even the most skilled, talented bigs in this mold. There remains a whole lot to like here.
I fully expect HE to go, but I just wanted to get people's hopes up ;)
i'm 5 Ginger Jamo's in right now and can't completely see straight and yale is about to win a NCAA tourney game. But that first sentence turned me on... I don't believe it.. but it really got me excited. Go America! Go MU, Go Ellenson! Go MU!
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 17, 2016, 03:54:17 PM
From SI.com's draft rankings.
Rumor has it that Ellenson isn't set on coming out this year, but as of right now, he's in the lottery if he wants to be. He can run, he can shoot from range and rebound, and with strong workouts has a chance to go higher than this. Multiple scouts expressed concern with his lateral quickness, and as we've seen recently with Kevin Love, defensive limitations can hamper even the most skilled, talented bigs in this mold. There remains a whole lot to like here.
(https://i.imgur.com/7drHiqrh.jpg)
Quote from: fjm on March 17, 2016, 04:23:09 PM
i'm 5 Ginger Jamo's in right now and can't completely see straight and yale is about to win a NCAA tourney game. But that first sentence turned me on... I don't believe it.. but it really got me excited. Go America! Go MU, Go Ellenson! Go MU!
You forgot #MakeMUGreatAgain
Henry is back. Rarely post, but I have a very very good source.
Nm
Quote from: JaJuanOnJuan on March 17, 2016, 10:38:07 PM
Henry is back. Rarely post, but I have a very very good source.
We trust you ;) a month ago you said Henry was gone
Quote from: JaJuanOnJuan on March 17, 2016, 10:38:07 PM
Henry is back. Rarely post, but I have a very very good source.
done deal
Quote from: JaJuanOnJuan on March 17, 2016, 10:38:07 PM
Henry is back. Rarely post, but I have a very very good source.
What's the opposite of Hiroshima?
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 17, 2016, 11:11:08 PM
What's the opposite or Hiroshima?
Berlin Wall comes down?
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 17, 2016, 11:11:08 PM
What's the opposite of Hiroshima?
Being the Allies at Hiroshima.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 17, 2016, 10:44:46 PM
We trust you ;) a month ago you said Henry was gone
Have a good night. Nice use of emojis.
Tis possible to have a wet dream while awake, right?
Quote from: JaJuanOnJuan on March 17, 2016, 10:38:07 PM
Henry is back. Rarely post, but I have a very very good source.
Nah Patrick Foley 07 aka Adam Schefter aka gaysworld says he gowne
Quote from: Smokin' Jae on March 18, 2016, 12:08:29 AM
Nah Patrick Foley 07 aka Adam Schefter aka gaysworld says he gowne
Haha your internet stalking skills are average at best. Plenty of people have known who I am for a long time, and probably know how old I am (unlike you). Not sure what kind of sites you're signing up for that it's so important to stay anonymous. I'm thinking you're my first internet stalker, but have at it!
https://m.facebook.com/?_rdr#~!/Pjfoley4vb?ref=bookmarks
PS If you think you have to be Dick Strong to get MU basketball information you're doing it wrong. ;D
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 17, 2016, 11:11:08 PM
What's the opposite of Hiroshima?
Tinian Island, home of the 529th Composite Bombing Group.
Whitehead is testing the waters but hasn't hired an agent yet. That's a pretty quick announcement. I feel even if he comes back, Henry will probably test the waters.
Does HE really need to test the waters? I think his place in the draft is pretty well known.
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 18, 2016, 10:21:57 AM
Does HE really need to test the waters? I think his place in the draft is pretty well known.
You get some pretty sweet NBA Combine gear. It's all about the swag.
He would get more formal feedback from the NBA guys on what he would need to work on. It could prepare him for when he is going pro and have a better combine. I don't think he needs to go to see where he stands. He's clearly a lottery pick.
I would say that when you're in pretty much every first round mock draft out there, you don't need to test the waters. But as those who evaluate these things for sports media start focusing heavily on the draft, you are starting to hear comments on things that might drop Henry's draft stock from lottery to lower lottery or later in the first round - lack of lateral quickness, 3 pointers not falling, etc. IMO If he goes, he is in no danger of falling out of the first round. The decision is his and his alone.
There has recently been a little more media discussion about the salary cap increase coming next year -- that this draft could be the last chance for teams to lock in high quality draftees at "bargain" prices for three to five years. Next year will likely bring a new, higher rookie scale and possibly a quicker path for rookies to the big $$. I know we've had a lot of debates on here about taking the money now and being in line for the big $$ quicker v. waiting for the new bargaining agreement, and I'm not convinced it will play a role in Henry's decision. Just noting that the new articles about the difference between this year's draftees and next year's are making it more clear that the teams are more advantaged with this year's rookie scale, and the draftees may be better off under the new agreement.
As others have mentioned, there's more to it than just "he's a lottery pick so he should go."
What if teams pick apart his game and his stock drops unexpectedly? What if he breaks his hand again and teams are worried about his injury history? What if Rabb or Stone lead their teams deep into the tourney and see their stock soar past HE? What if the Sixers want to draft him?
Sure, I'm just pulling things out of the air but there are a lot of factors to consider. I have to believe he's gone but you never know.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 17, 2016, 10:44:46 PM
We trust you ;) a month ago you said Henry was gone
the source is his dog
If Henry is still going to class then there might be a chance he comes back? I think every player wants to play in an NCAA game or two, maybe he wants to. I do
believe if he comes back they would have a chance with 2 shooters coming in next year.
Quote from: HoopsterBC on March 18, 2016, 11:39:28 AM
If Henry is still going to class then there might be a chance he comes back? I think every player wants to play in an NCAA game or two, maybe he wants to. I do
believe if he comes back they would have a chance with 2 shooters coming in next year.
If he is considering staying, does that mean Markus Howard is coming to MU?
Howard is either a McD AA or close to one. Henry, Howard, and the returners could be a formidable team next year!
Is that why he would be considering a return?
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 18, 2016, 11:42:55 AM
If he is considering staying, does that mean Markus Howard is coming to MU?
Howard is either a McD AA or close to one. Henry, Howard, and the returners could be a formidable team next year!
Is that why he would be considering a return?
Doubt it matters one way or the other. Maybe to Markus it would matter but I doubt it would to Henry.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 18, 2016, 11:54:48 AM
Doubt it matters one way or the other. Maybe to Markus it would matter but I doubt it would to Henry.
Agreed. Henry would have went to Kentucky or Michigan State if his primary interest was being a part of stone cold lock tourney team during his recruitment. However, now that he's proven himself worthy of the NBA, he may want a tourney run before be bolts.
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 18, 2016, 11:59:04 AM
Agreed. Henry would have went to Kentucky or Michigan State if his primary interest was being a part of stone cold lock tourney team during his recruitment. However, now that he's proven himself worthy of the NBA, he may want a tourney run before be bolts.
Perhaps. But I would think the threat of injury—and another year of critics/scouts poking holes in his game—would drive him to leave now. Also, this is an all-time weak draft. Next year, he might not be a sure-fire lottery pick.
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on March 18, 2016, 10:37:57 AM
I would say that when you're in pretty much every first round mock draft out there, you don't need to test the waters. But as those who evaluate these things for sports media start focusing heavily on the draft, you are starting to hear comments on things that might drop Henry's draft stock from lottery to lower lottery or later in the first round - lack of lateral quickness, 3 pointers not falling, etc. IMO If he goes, he is in no danger of falling out of the first round. The decision is his and his alone.
There has recently been a little more media discussion about the salary cap increase coming next year -- that this draft could be the last chance for teams to lock in high quality draftees at "bargain" prices for three to five years. Next year will likely bring a new, higher rookie scale and possibly a quicker path for rookies to the big $$. I know we've had a lot of debates on here about taking the money now and being in line for the big $$ quicker v. waiting for the new bargaining agreement, and I'm not convinced it will play a role in Henry's decision. Just noting that the new articles about the difference between this year's draftees and next year's are making it more clear that the teams are more advantaged with this year's rookie scale, and the draftees may be better off under the new agreement.
Hmm, another good reason to come back next season?
Quote from: HowardsWorld on March 18, 2016, 06:48:35 AM
You have yet to say he gowne to any of the rumors that have been posted in the past day. Therefore I can only assume:
(https://media.giphy.com/media/5mBE2MiMVFITS/giphy.gif)
Echo chamber.
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/03/18/report-potential-top-10-pick-henry-ellenson-to-declare-for-nba-draft/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter (http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/03/18/report-potential-top-10-pick-henry-ellenson-to-declare-for-nba-draft/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter)
Quote from: JaJuanOnJuan on March 17, 2016, 10:38:07 PM
Henry is back. Rarely post, but I have a very very good source.
If your source isn't named H. Ellenson or Henry E., it's pretty much worthless.
Guess Dan Feldman didn't read John Ellenson's response tweets. This is how rumors get started. 8-)
Quote from: Aughnanure on March 17, 2016, 11:11:08 PM
What's the opposite of Hiroshima?
It's still Hiroshima, except the bomb is landing on our opponents.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/d4/d47cb7089db22b7be4108528a53e5f2b7590344f7d6bfcba142ed49059b8936a.jpg)
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on March 18, 2016, 12:05:05 PM
think he meant Ebola Gay
Yup.
That's about as close as Elona Gay
History is a lost art :-\
Quote from: DienerTime34 on March 18, 2016, 03:09:49 PM
If your source isn't named H. Ellenson or Henry E., it's pretty much worthless.
Fair enough. Have a great night.
Quote from: DienerTime34 on March 18, 2016, 03:09:49 PM
If your source isn't named H. Ellenson or Henry E., it's pretty much worthless.
I'd also accept a source of W. Ellenson or Wally E.
Quote from: JaJuanOnJuan on March 18, 2016, 08:26:44 PM
Fair enough. Have a great night.
I must say - I like this dudes confidence.
Quote from: JaJuanOnJuan on March 18, 2016, 08:26:44 PM
Fair enough. Have a great night.
You still feeling confident?
This has hints of "mom's cousin's friend's....." but bare with me.
Kinda echoes the SI draft ranking discussion. One of my good friends from MU met up with a girl we both knew from MU who is now working at SI. She told him "the people in the know" at SI are hearing Henry doesn't think he's ready yet to really contribute and wants to come back for 1 year. Take it for what it's worth, but he's as realist as it gets on #mubb and sounded optimistic for the first time regarding Henry back.
I've had a growing sense of optimism with Henry for about a month now so I'll admittedly grasp at any 1-more-year straws.
Quote from: onepostwarrior on March 21, 2016, 11:55:15 AM
Kinda echoes the SI draft ranking discussion. One of my good friends from MU met up with a girl we both knew from MU who is now working at SI. She told him "the people in the know" at SI are hearing Henry doesn't think he's ready yet to really contribute and wants to come back for 1 year.
Who are the people in the know at SI? I haven't really followed their mock draft coverage
While trying to remain optimistic, I still feel that Henry will declare in the coming weeks. If he stays, it would be an unbelievable momentum builder into next year, not to mention keeping so much of the team intact for next year. While I do think his decision will be harder than most will admit, money almost always wins.
Just a random question that probably doesn't have an easy answer...I am asking generally but this certainly applies to Henry
Is it better to enter the NBA as a highly rated 1 and done prospect who is at 80% potential and have a decent, but not spectacular rookie year?
OR
Stay an extra year, improve, and enter at 90% of your potential and have a bigger impact in your rookie year?
Which is better for financial and long-term career prospects? You are giving up one year's salary up front but if it means you get drafter higher (bigger rookie contract) than you would have, and make a bigger impact right away your next contract will be significantly better.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 21, 2016, 12:59:19 PM
While trying to remain optimistic, I still feel that Henry will declare in the coming weeks. If he stays, it would be an unbelievable momentum builder into next year, not to mention keeping so much of the team intact for next year. While I do think his decision will be harder than most will admit, money almost always wins.
As much as the money almost wins argument is very true, and I've been there with money. There are some people that realize memories and experiences are worth more. This kid will make his millions and will be an NBA player. He knows that, his family knows that. If I knew I was going to make my millions (baring a freak event) I would do what makes me happiest. And maybe for him it's another year with his buddies before its business and agents and chicks that want him for his money and bar fights with Larry Sanders at 720 on Milwaukee st.
That being said, I would be surprised if he stayed. But hey, I wish I had focused more on memories than money when I was a wee bit younger.
Quote from: Coleman on March 21, 2016, 01:16:21 PM
Which is better for financial and long-term career prospects? You are giving up one year's salary up front but if it means you get drafter higher (bigger rookie contract) than you would have, and make a bigger impact right away your next contract will be significantly better.
I think it depends how much higher you go the next year. If you move from the #12 pick to #3, you might be better off waiting. If you move from #5 to #3, you're probably better off taking a slightly smaller contract and investing the money.
Quote from: onepostwarrior on March 21, 2016, 11:55:15 AM
This has hints of "mom's cousin's friend's....." but bare with me.
Kinda echoes the SI draft ranking discussion. One of my good friends from MU met up with a girl we both knew from MU who is now working at SI. She told him "the people in the know" at SI are hearing Henry doesn't think he's ready yet to really contribute and wants to come back for 1 year. Take it for what it's worth, but he's as realist as it gets on #mubb and sounded optimistic for the first time regarding Henry back.
I've had a growing sense of optimism with Henry for about a month now so I'll admittedly grasp at any 1-more-year straws.
My friends in the talent scouting industry have heard the opposite. Specifically they've been 2 wording it with "he gone." It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Quote from: onepostwarrior on March 21, 2016, 11:55:15 AM
This has hints of "mom's cousin's friend's....." but bare with me.
Kinda echoes the SI draft ranking discussion. One of my good friends from MU met up with a girl we both knew from MU who is now working at SI. She told him "the people in the know" at SI are hearing Henry doesn't think he's ready yet to really contribute and wants to come back for 1 year. Take it for what it's worth, but he's as realist as it gets on #mubb and sounded optimistic for the first time regarding Henry back.
I've had a growing sense of optimism with Henry for about a month now so I'll admittedly grasp at any 1-more-year straws.
I'm biting hard on this.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on March 21, 2016, 01:27:49 PM
My friends in the talent scouting industry have heard the opposite. Specifically they've been 2 wording it with "he gone." It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
Darn it, JakeBarnes. That's not what we want to hear :)
I just hope he does not sign with an agent. He can get a good idea where he will be drafted and then if it is not what he was thinking he can comeback. However, it would screw with Wojo's spring recruiting.
Pioneer Press has him in a woofies costume next year. :o
Quote from: JakeBarnes on March 21, 2016, 01:27:49 PM
My friends in the talent scouting industry have heard the opposite. Specifically they've been 2 wording it with "he gone." It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
I'm hearing that whereas people were 99.9% sure he was gone a couple weeks ago, now they are hedging their bets a bit. Lets say 80% confident now (arbitrarily made up number).
Still odds are he leaves, but feedback suggesting he is towards the end of the lottery/middle of the round instead of top 5/10.
Its going to come down to whether he wants to sit on the bench next year, but be able to focus on basketball 24/7 or spend another year being a star at the college level.
Is someone familiar with whether college players are allowed to take out some type of future income insurance policy while in school? If I were Henry and could lock in some portion of my future NBA earnings for a reasonable sum that would allow me to play college basketball without worry about injury, I'd think long and hard about it.
Quote from: Ellenson Guerrero on March 22, 2016, 09:11:36 AM
Is someone familiar with whether college players are allowed to take out some type of future income insurance policy while in school? If I were Henry and could lock in some portion of my future NBA earnings for a reasonable sum that would allow me to play college basketball without worry about injury, I'd think long and hard about it.
Not only can he take out such a policy, but the school can pay for it.
Quote from: real chili 83 on March 21, 2016, 08:08:24 PM
Pioneer Press has him in a woofies costume next year. :o
The NBA kiss of death - being drafted by the Slumberwolves.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 22, 2016, 09:13:18 AM
Not only can he take out such a policy, but the school can pay for it.
Like a lloyds of London type deal?
Any info on particulars?
Ex--it covers knees and ankles, not concussions, etc.
Quote from: forgetful on March 21, 2016, 10:17:45 PM
I'm hearing that whereas people were 99.9% sure he was gone a couple weeks ago, now they are hedging their bets a bit. Lets say 80% confident now (arbitrarily made up number).
Still odds are he leaves, but feedback suggesting he is towards the end of the lottery/middle of the round instead of top 5/10.
Its going to come down to whether he wants to sit on the bench next year, but be able to focus on basketball 24/7 or spend another year being a star at the college level.
He not gowne! He stayne!!!
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 22, 2016, 09:20:47 AM
The NBA kiss of death - being drafted by the Slumberwolves.
Maybe not in Henry's mind.
Last I heard da bread is green no matter what team you be on, hey?
Quote from: We R Final Four on March 22, 2016, 09:25:49 AM
Like a lloyds of London type deal?
Any info on particulars?
Ex--it covers knees and ankles, not concussions, etc.
No idea. Here's an article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/09/sports/ncaafootball/insurance-doesnt-eliminate-risk-for-top-college-athletes-who-forgo-draft.html?_r=0
"Loss-of-value insurance has been available to any college athlete who could afford it, but colleges have recently begun paying for premiums out of their student assistance funds, which the N.C.A.A. allows."
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 22, 2016, 09:32:04 AM
No idea. Here's an article.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/09/sports/ncaafootball/insurance-doesnt-eliminate-risk-for-top-college-athletes-who-forgo-draft.html?_r=0
"Loss-of-value insurance has been available to any college athlete who could afford it, but colleges have recently begun paying for premiums out of their student assistance funds, which the N.C.A.A. allows."
I'm surprised that the colleges are allowed to pay for it and I'm not sure that they are the best ones to be negotiating with insurance companies for benefits ultimately to be collected by the player. But if it helps HE feel comfortable in returning, I'm all for it.
The policy terms certainly get complicated quick, especially when you have to account for the varying strength of NBA draft classes.
Quote from: forgetful on March 21, 2016, 10:17:45 PM
I'm hearing that whereas people were 99.9% sure he was gone a couple weeks ago, now they are hedging their bets a bit. Lets say 80% confident now (arbitrarily made up number).
Still odds are he leaves, but feedback suggesting he is towards the end of the lottery/middle of the round instead of top 5/10.
Its going to come down to whether he wants to sit on the bench next year, but be able to focus on basketball 24/7 or spend another year being a star at the college level.
That is fair. I haven't heard much since last Thursday when it was reiterated to me that he was gone. But that's from people who have a theoretical interest in him being gone. Maybe he goes the Blossomgame route and tries to see what his prospects look like first (a lot of people iffy on Blossomgame and his size).
That said, I would personally (and selfishly) love to see him in a Marquette uniform next year if only for the fact that kids should be allowed to be kids for a little bit longer. Be a college kid. Enjoy high level ball with you buddies, etc.
Quote from: Ellenson Guerrero on March 22, 2016, 10:25:57 AM
I'm surprised that the colleges are allowed to pay for it and I'm not sure that they are the best ones to be negotiating with insurance companies for benefits ultimately to be collected by the player. But if it helps HE feel comfortable in returning, I'm all for it.
The policy terms certainly get complicated quick, especially when you have to account for the varying strength of NBA draft classes.
I view it as no different than providing health insurance, disability insurance, etc., which universities already provide to student-athletes.
As long as he does not hire an agent he can wait a while. He probably waits for sure
until after the NCAA s to get a better feel as to where he might get drafted. In addition WOJO will work the pro guys to get a feel as to what's going on and what pre draft camps he will attend. I don't think he has to declare for the draft until late May.
Quote from: Huge guy on March 22, 2016, 12:15:03 PM
As long as he does not hire an agent he can wait a while. He probably waits for sure
until after the NCAA s to get a better feel as to where he might get drafted. In addition WOJO will work the pro guys to get a feel as to what's going on and what pre draft camps he will attend. I don't think he has to declare for the draft until late May.
I think the date's June 13 but I'm just going from memory.
Quote from: BrewCity83 on March 22, 2016, 12:29:59 PM
I think the date's June 13 but I'm just going from memory.
according to this it's April 29. Though if he declares after the 10th he cannot undeclare apparently.
http://www.ncaa.org/remaining-eligible-professional-draft-inquiries
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 22, 2016, 12:32:27 PM
according to this it's April 29. Though if he declares after the 10th he cannot undeclare apparently.
http://www.ncaa.org/remaining-eligible-professional-draft-inquiries
that's not from this year (Tuesday April 10th?) and things were changed this year
Dunn is going pro according to CBS. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25526556/providence-guard-kris-dunn-will-declare-for-the-2016-nba-draft
It is selfish to want Henry to stay; he has money to make. Just wondering, as Dunn and others declare, do you think that it could be part of the decision? Is there a point in which enough declare that this "weak" class becomes stronger and waiting until next year helps? A fellow can dream ...
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on March 22, 2016, 12:35:48 PM
that's not from this year (Tuesday April 10th?) and things were changed this year
My bad may 25th
http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2016/1/12/10754458/nba-draft-early-entry-deadline
May 25th confirmed for this year. It's ten days after the end of the NBA combine.
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25448359/ncaa-moves-withdrawal-deadline-for-nba-draft-to-after-combine
Quote from: radome on March 22, 2016, 12:37:32 PM
Dunn is going pro according to CBS. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25526556/providence-guard-kris-dunn-will-declare-for-the-2016-nba-draft
It is selfish to want Henry to stay; he has money to make. Just wondering, as Dunn and others declare, do you think that it could be part of the decision? Is there a point in which enough declare that this "weak" class becomes stronger and waiting until next year helps? A fellow can dream ...
Dunn has been on every draft board since Nov.
To clarify, Henry would have to declare for the draft by April 24, the Early Entry Eligibility Deadline. As long as he does not hire an agent, he can withdraw from the draft up to 10 days after the combine.
NCAA used to require players to declare by one day before the start of the April signing season, and that decision was irrevocable. This change seems to be designed to allow college players time to get a realistic view of their probability of being drafted. Wish it was around when Vander left....
Quote from: We R Final Four on March 22, 2016, 09:25:49 AM
Like a lloyds of London type deal?
Any info on particulars?
Ex--it covers knees and ankles, not concussions, etc.
LofL deal for sure.
Type(s) of coverage, benefits, qualifications, etc. are all negotiable, but typically they cover only the catastrophic stuff (i.e. career-ending injuries). If you suffer a major injury but are still able to play after reasonable recovery (i.e. you end up being a journeyman instead of an all-star and/or delay your entry to the NBA by a couple years), those usually don't pay off.
Keep in mind, the odds of a career-ending or materially-detrimental injury are astronomically low (unless you have a known condition or pre-disposition to injury), so Lloyd's loves this kind of stuff.
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on March 22, 2016, 12:50:38 PM
To clarify, Henry would have to declare for the draft by April 24, the Early Entry Eligibility Deadline. As long as he does not hire an agent, he can withdraw from the draft up to 10 days after the combine.
NCAA used to require players to declare by one day before the start of the April signing season, and that decision was irrevocable. This change seems to be designed to allow college players time to get a realistic view of their probability of being drafted. Wish it was around when Vander left....
Don't think that ever really mattered.
I traded texts with Malik Newman today. He declared without an agent. In short, he believes he's NBA ready, but his family advised him to not hire an agent yet. His thinking is go to the combine and see what happens, zero to lose.
Quote from: Benny B on March 22, 2016, 01:03:07 PM
LofL deal for sure.
Type(s) of coverage, benefits, qualifications, etc. are all negotiable, but typically they cover only the catastrophic stuff (i.e. career-ending injuries). If you suffer a major injury but are still able to play after reasonable recovery (i.e. you end up being a journeyman instead of an all-star and/or delay your entry to the NBA by a couple years), those usually don't pay off.
Keep in mind, the odds of a career-ending or materially-detrimental injury are astronomically low (unless you have a known condition or pre-disposition to injury), so Lloyd's loves this kind of stuff.
And if Lloyd's is like other insurance companies, there's also a chance they might get out of paying by keeping HE on hold until he gives up.
Quote from: MUDish on March 22, 2016, 01:06:50 PM
I traded texts with Malik Newman today. He declared without an agent. In short, he believes he's NBA ready, but his family advised him to not hire an agent yet. His thinking is go to the combine and see what happens, zero to lose.
Has anyone ever torn a ligament or broken something at the combine?
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 22, 2016, 01:40:25 PM
Has anyone ever torn a ligament or broken something at the combine?
You know if that happened, he'd just go back to school, right?
Quote from: radome on March 22, 2016, 12:37:32 PM
Dunn is going pro according to CBS. http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/eye-on-college-basketball/25526556/providence-guard-kris-dunn-will-declare-for-the-2016-nba-draft
It is selfish to want Henry to stay; he has money to make. Just wondering, as Dunn and others declare, do you think that it could be part of the decision? Is there a point in which enough declare that this "weak" class becomes stronger and waiting until next year helps? A fellow can dream ...
It is considered a weak class even after assuming that most of these guys declare.
When guys like Diallo and Labissierre will probably be lottery picks - that is the definition of a very weak class. There weren't good enough to earn minutes on a college team, so how will they do professionally next year? No chance whatsoever to play. Small chance that they will ever be factors in the league. Just 8th or 9th players in the rotation at best.
Quote from: brandx on March 22, 2016, 02:46:38 PM
When guys like Diallo and Labissierre will probably be lottery picks - that is the definition of a very weak class.
I think it's more a definition of the NBA's longtime preference for tools over production.
Quote from: brandx on March 22, 2016, 02:46:38 PM
It is considered a weak class even after assuming that most of these guys declare.
When guys like Diallo and Labissierre will probably be lottery picks - that is the definition of a very weak class. There weren't good enough to earn minutes on a college team, so how will they do professionally next year? No chance whatsoever to play. Small chance that they will ever be factors in the league. Just 8th or 9th players in the rotation at best.
Most recent draft classes have been weak because of guys with "potential and upside" like Diallo and Labissierre. There hasn't been a good draft class since 2012 with Davis, Lillard, Beal, Drummond and Green. Most NBA Draft picks have no business being in the NBA their rookie year.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 22, 2016, 02:52:08 PM
Most recent draft classes have been weak because of guys with "potential and upside" like Diallo and Labissierre. There hasn't been a good draft class since 2012 with Davis, Lillard, Beal, Drummond and Green.
Too soon to say for certain, but 2015 class is looking very, very good with Towns, Okafor, Porzingis, Turner, Russell, Mudiay, etc.
I like to look at the Mock draft where Henry is rated lowest, He is now rising in that mock draft and is up to 15th.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft
This one also has good scouting reports of the players involved so it is kind of fun to watch.
Will be interesting to see how Henry does at the NBA combine. I wonder if he will be able to demonstrate some of his high basketball IQ.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 22, 2016, 02:52:08 PM
Most recent draft classes have been weak because of guys with "potential and upside" like Diallo and Labissierre. There hasn't been a good draft class since 2012 with Davis, Lillard, Beal, Drummond and Green. Most NBA Draft picks have no business being in the NBA their rookie year.
And most importantly Crowder!
But I don't think 2013 was as bad as people claim. Though Bennett was clearly a massive flop.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 22, 2016, 02:50:25 PM
I think it's more a definition of the NBA's longtime preference for tools over production.
Reminds me of when the old baseball scouts would call a guy "toolsy".
In other words, a great athlete, but sucks as a player.
Quote from: brandx on March 22, 2016, 06:28:06 PM
Reminds me of when the old baseball scouts would call a guy "toolsy".
In other words, a great athlete, but sucks as a player.
Better yet, "Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane."
So, like when Henry comes back next year, what will be our preseason ranking?
Quote from: real chili 83 on March 23, 2016, 05:33:10 AM
So, like when Henry comes back next year, what will be our preseason ranking?
#1 in our hearts
Quote from: real chili 83 on March 23, 2016, 05:33:10 AM
So, like when Henry comes back next year, what will be our preseason ranking?
24. But seriously. When was the last time a MU team brought back 100% of its points and minutes (ok 99.9%).
Quote from: Shark on March 23, 2016, 09:42:57 AM
24. But seriously. When was the last time a MU team brought back 100% of its points and minutes (ok 99.9%).
Not sure you brought that decimal point out far enough. 99.995%
Quote from: warriorchick on March 23, 2016, 10:23:17 AM
Not sure you brought that decimal point out far enough. 99.995%
He was using significant digits to represent a scientifically accurate number.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Tyr3dQRS37gu4/giphy.gif)
Twitter:
James E. Causey @jecausey 1h1 hour ago
Another season at MU would do him some good. via Henry Ellenson's NBA decision looming http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/henry-ellensons-nba-decision-remains-known-only-to-him-b99692370z1-373170921.html ...
*Editorial writer, columnist & blogger for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Wisconsin Black Media Association president. Member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity Inc.
EDIT: Yes, yes, I am grasping at anything that relates to HE staying.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 23, 2016, 10:31:02 AM
He was using significant digits to represent a scientifically accurate number.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Tyr3dQRS37gu4/giphy.gif)
Yeah, that's exactly what I did 8-)
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 22, 2016, 01:40:25 PM
Has anyone ever torn a ligament or broken something at the combine?
That happen a few years ago. I do not remember who, but I am thinking a Florida player.
Well, are you more likely to tear something playing a full season of college bball or for a few hours at a combine? I don't need the nerds for this one.
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 24, 2016, 11:49:17 AM
Well, are you more likely to tear something playing a full season of college bball or for a few hours at a combine? I don't need the nerds for this one.
Maybe we could start a poll. The results might help Henry with his decision. ;)
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 23, 2016, 11:27:11 AM
Twitter:
James E. Causey @jecausey 1h1 hour ago
Another season at MU would do him some good. via Henry Ellenson's NBA decision looming http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/henry-ellensons-nba-decision-remains-known-only-to-him-b99692370z1-373170921.html ...
*Editorial writer, columnist & blogger for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Wisconsin Black Media Association president. Member of Phi Beta Sigma Fraternity Inc.
EDIT: Yes, yes, I am grasping at anything that relates to HE staying.
Don't let go, Jack... Don't eve let go!
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 24, 2016, 11:49:17 AM
Well, are you more likely to tear something playing a full season of college bball or for a few hours at a combine? I don't need the nerds for this one.
How about tearing an achilles tendon try to max out your vertical leap? Or straining a neck muscle trying to appear as tall as possible?
Quote from: warriorchick on March 24, 2016, 01:03:38 PM
How about tearing an achilles tendon try to max out your vertical leap? Or straining a neck muscle trying to appear as tall as possible?
Good points. Also can't forget about slipping on the tile floor during a bathroom break at the combine.
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 24, 2016, 01:09:19 PM
Good points. Also can't forget about slipping on the tile floor during a bathroom break at the combine.
(http://)
For what it's worth (no idea who these guys are)...
Joe Brennan @JBren22 4h4 hours ago
Per @Twooters1 and other source at major sports agency in LA, #HenryEllenson was spotted this morning. Bad news for #mubb. @DraftExpress
@Twooters1 has a robust 198 followers--so probably utter nonsense.
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 24, 2016, 04:35:46 PM
For what it's worth (no idea who these guys are)...
Joe Brennan @JBren22 4h4 hours ago
Per @Twooters1 and other source at major sports agency in LA, #HenryEllenson was spotted this morning. Bad news for #mubb. @DraftExpress
@Twooters1 has a robust 198 followers--so probably utter nonsense.
#Donedeal
Figured I would beat Ganzer to it
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 24, 2016, 04:35:46 PM
For what it's worth (no idea who these guys are)...
Joe Brennan @JBren22 4h4 hours ago
Per @Twooters1 and other source at major sports agency in LA, #HenryEllenson was spotted this morning. Bad news for #mubb. @DraftExpress
@Twooters1 has a robust 198 followers--so probably utter nonsense.
Both Twooters and Joe Brennan are college age kids from Milwaukee. They have less than 400 followers between them and from what I can tell have never made a basketball prediction before. Also, judging from their tweets, they are UWM students.
In short
(http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/03/Trollers-gonna-troll-GIF.gif?gs=a)
Hey, it's spring break! Go to LA, hang out at the beach, visit some sports management agencies -- isn't that what most college students do for spring break?
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on March 24, 2016, 05:16:22 PM
Both Twooters and Joe Brennan are college age kids from Milwaukee. They have less than 400 followers between them and from what I can tell have never made a basketball prediction before. Also, judging from their tweets, they are UWM students.
In short
(http://gifsec.com/wp-content/uploads/GIF/2014/03/Trollers-gonna-troll-GIF.gif?gs=a)
Yes, it would make very little sense based on the trajectory of this process to date.
Would have more cred if da agents were seen in Rice Lake, ai na?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 24, 2016, 06:13:01 PM
Would have more cred if da agents were seen in Rice Lake, ai na?
Preferably, in Rice Lake making s'mores over an open fire at a camp site.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 24, 2016, 06:13:01 PM
Would have more cred if da agents were seen in Rice Lake, ai na?
Probably have been. LA types would blend in pretty well up there.
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 24, 2016, 04:35:46 PM
For what it's worth (no idea who these guys are)...
Joe Brennan @JBren22 4h4 hours ago
Per @Twooters1 and other source at major sports agency in LA, #HenryEllenson was spotted this morning. Bad news for #mubb. @DraftExpress
@Twooters1 has a robust 198 followers--so probably utter nonsense.
Whatever. Henry leaving will not exactly be a shock. This isn't another Vander Blue situation. I don't know anyone who thinks Henry will be back for his sophomore year.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 24, 2016, 06:13:01 PM
Would have more cred if da agents were seen in Rice Lake, ai na?
Getting some pie at the Nook.
3,2,1.....
Think it's a mistake. Henry should enjoy college. Make a great memory by being a great player at Marquette. Let's face it, the NBA is very boring. We don't watch it much because they play too many games and don't play hard until the last five minutes. College ball is much more entertaining.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on March 24, 2016, 07:19:24 PM
Think it's a mistake. Henry should enjoy college. Make a great memory by being a great player at Marquette. Let's face it, the NBA is very boring. We don't watch it much because they play too many games and don't play hard until the last five minutes. College ball is much more entertaining.
During the regular season, NBA ratings way outpace college ratings. The NCAA tournament is really the only time significant numbers watch college basketball.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on March 24, 2016, 07:19:24 PM
Think it's a mistake. Henry should enjoy college. Make a great memory by being a great player at Marquette. Let's face it, the NBA is very boring. We don't watch it much because they play too many games and don't play hard until the last five minutes. College ball is much more entertaining.
It's especially boring for a talented player who is glued to the bench. Hell, Doug McDermott was glued to the bench in Chicago for his first year after being the freakin' College Basketball POY as a
senior. And he and HE are not that dissimilar as players. If anything, McDermott was much more prepared to operate as a stretch four on the perimeter.
I was certain that HE was going to be a one and done until recently. It's still the more likely course, but maybe now there's some credence to the HE staying another year to better prepare for the NBA. Another year in college will allow him a greater chance to enter the NBA with some impact. Of course, the same argument could be made for the DNBA.
Borin' as all hell to just keep countin' them shekels, ai na?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 24, 2016, 06:54:46 PM
Probably have been. LA types would blend in pretty well up there.
I'm in West Hollywood/Beverly Hills right now (really am!) and have not seen Henry. Does that mean he is coming back?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 24, 2016, 07:27:02 PM
During the regular season, NBA ratings way outpace college ratings. The NCAA tournament is really the only time significant numbers watch college basketball.
Lots of boring stuff gets good ratings. How else do you explain American Idol?
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 24, 2016, 07:40:17 PM
I'm in West Hollywood/Beverly Hills right now (really am!) and have not seen Henry. Does that mean he is coming back?
Hangin' at da Four Seasons on Doheny, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 24, 2016, 07:35:51 PM
Borin' as all hell to just keep countin' them shekels, ai na?
Shekels or no shekels, if you're competitive enough to get into the NBA, it
has to hurt to watch game after game knowing that you have next to no chance to get get in and play.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on March 24, 2016, 07:55:35 PM
Shekels or no shekels, if you're competitive enough to get into the NBA, it has to hurt to watch game after game knowing that you have next to no chance to get get in and play.
True, but after the game, you can go home and roll around in your money.
Depends if ya know your day is comin', ai na?
Quote from: warriorchick on March 24, 2016, 07:57:13 PM
True, but after the game, you can go home and roll around in your money.
I'm skying! I can't believe that I beat the gif master to the rolling in the money gif!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/14vTnFcC3Oom4M/giphy.gif)
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on March 24, 2016, 08:08:04 PM
I'm skying! I can't believe that I beat the gif master to the rolling in the money gif!
(https://media.giphy.com/media/14vTnFcC3Oom4M/giphy.gif)
Too bad Huell is still sitting waiting on Hank to come back....
(http://cdn.collider.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/breaking-bad-huell-safe-house-slice-600x200.jpg)
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 24, 2016, 07:40:17 PM
I'm in West Hollywood/Beverly Hills right now (really am!) and have not seen Henry. Does that mean he is coming back?
What are you doing in West Hollywood? 8-)
A buck says he's at da Rage or Adonis Bar, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 24, 2016, 08:51:54 PM
A buck says he's at da Rage or Adonis Bar, hey?
You lose.
I love Huell. 'Huell, will you be happy if Henry returns to Marquette? Reasonably.'
Why in the heck hasnt he said he will go to the combine? At the very least.
Quote from: jaygall31 on March 27, 2016, 10:39:38 PM
Why in the heck hasnt he said he will go to the combine? At the very least.
Because he wants a little time to enjoy his spring break, maybe?
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 27, 2016, 10:49:39 PM
Because he wants a little time to enjoy his spring break, maybe?
Yep. Classes begin again on Tuesday. If there are going to be departures of any kind, I'd imagine we'd start hearing about them soon. Though not necessarily.
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on March 27, 2016, 11:09:53 PM
Yep. Classes begin again on Tuesday. If there are going to be departures of any kind, I'd imagine we'd start hearing about them soon. Though not necessarily.
agree ... if he is, or is not, in classes Tuesday I think we'll have our answer.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 27, 2016, 11:38:03 PM
agree ... if he is, or is not, in classes Tuesday I think we'll have our answer.
Stop, H. For all that is holy, please stop.
Thank you.
Quote from: wildbillsb on March 27, 2016, 11:43:22 PM
Stop, H. For all that is holy, please stop.
Thank you.
Stop what?
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 27, 2016, 11:38:03 PM
agree ... if he is, or is not, in classes Tuesday I think we'll have our answer.
Well, I don't know about that. I think the most likely scenario is HE declares but doesn't hire an agent. In which case, he would still be in class but is still undecided.
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on March 28, 2016, 12:27:36 AM
Well, I don't know about that. I think the most likely scenario is HE declares but doesn't hire an agent. In which case, he would still be in class but is still undecided.
He is projected to be a lottery pick. He just needs to decide if he is in our out.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 28, 2016, 05:49:14 AM
He is projected to be a lottery pick. He just needs to decide if he is in our out.
But some have him projected as a low lottery pick. HE might not want to leave if that's the case. I think he will declare without an agent
The simple reality is that Henry will announce his decision on his timetable, not the timetable of the fans. We all want to know, but we're going to have to wait. That's just the way it is.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 28, 2016, 08:45:00 AM
The simple reality is that Henry will announce his decision on his timetable, not the timetable of the fans. We all want to know, but we're going to have to wait. That's just the way it is.
All I'm suggesting is if he knows what he is going to do (and I'll bet he knows by now) why would he go to class for one more week if he knows he is quitting school.
Still think if he is, or is not, in class when school resumes tomorrow that says something about his decision.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 28, 2016, 08:55:00 AM
All I'm suggesting is if he knows what he is going to do (and I'll bet he knows by now) why would he go to class for one more week if he knows he is quitting school.
Still think if he is, or is not, in class when school resumes tomorrow that says something about his decision.
If he isn't class than yes. If he is, all it means it's he hasn't decided yet.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 28, 2016, 08:55:00 AM
All I'm suggesting is if he knows what he is going to do (and I'll bet he knows by now) why would he go to class for one more week if he knows he is quitting school.
Still think if he is, or is not, in class when school resumes tomorrow that says something about his decision.
If he knew for sure what he was going to do, I imagine that we'd also know what he was going to do. My guess is that he'll declare without an agent, go to individual workouts, get some feedback and then make his final decision based off of that. If he was deadset on going (or staying), why not announce it by now?
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 28, 2016, 08:55:00 AM
All I'm suggesting is if he knows what he is going to do (and I'll bet he knows by now) why would he go to class for one more week if he knows he is quitting school.
Still think if he is, or is not, in class when school resumes tomorrow that says something about his decision.
Even if he's decided to declare, why is it a certainty he wouldn't finish out the year? My guess is both he and his parents would probably want him to finish the year (5-6 more weeks til the end) so he's got his first year completed. I get the fact that he's about to have millions, but it seems silly not to get the entire first year done.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on March 28, 2016, 10:03:36 AM
Even if he's decided to declare, why is it a certainty he wouldn't finish out the year? My guess is both he and his parents would probably want him to finish the year (5-6 more weeks til the end) so he's got his first year completed. I get the fact that he's about to have millions, but it seems silly not to get the entire first year done.
I agree with Lighthouse. Because I think it unlikely that he'll do the combine but would rather do individual workouts, I really believe he'll finish the semester. This isn't Vander we're talking about. I can almost picture the conversation at home. Now if it were to materially impact his draft prospects that's another story but his body of work speaks for itself. And he has plenty of time for 'drills' now that formal hoops are over.
Jeeze if Henry skips class on Tuesday it'll be hiroshima here.
I know I've been spending too much time on this board because everytime I saw HE is Risen this weekend, my first thought was: "Where is Henry going?"
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 28, 2016, 10:38:26 AM
Jeeze if Henry skips class on Tuesday it'll be hiroshima here.
"My dentist's cousin's niece is in a class with Henry, and she said he missed his Philosophy class on Tuesday."
#donedeal
Woelfel says he's gone...which means he is probably staying..... 8-)
http://journaltimes.com/sports/gery-woelfel-mu-fans-have-seen-the-last-of-ellenson/article_93b89a18-47ad-54f2-a63f-5364709c5b56.html?utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=user-share
You mean all this angst and wonderment about HE's plans and all we had to do was ask Gery???
Lots of stories out there how Buddy Hield was a 1st round pick last year but came back to raise his draft status this year. Consensus is he accomplished that. (Hope HE having the same thoughts.) I don't follow this closely enough but is there anyone out there who was a consensus first rounder last year, came back, and that ended up hurting their draft status?
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 28, 2016, 01:32:41 PM
Lots of stories out there how Buddy Hield was a 1st round pick last year but came back to raise his draft status this year. Consensus is he accomplished that. (Hope HE having the same thoughts.) I don't follow this closely enough but is there anyone out there who was a consensus first rounder last year, came back, and that ended up hurting their draft status?
Nigel Hayes comes to mind, but I don't know that he was a consensus first rounder. He was more of a fringe first rounder and decided to come back and now is a mid 2nd rounder.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on March 28, 2016, 01:32:41 PM
Lots of stories out there how Buddy Hield was a 1st round pick last year but came back to raise his draft status this year. Consensus is he accomplished that. (Hope HE having the same thoughts.) I don't follow this closely enough but is there anyone out there who was a consensus first rounder last year, came back, and that ended up hurting their draft status?
Carl Levert, for sure.
Maybe Melo Trimble.
Henry has already moved out of the dorm and is Florida training.
Quote from: mugoose on March 28, 2016, 01:55:37 PM
Henry has already moved out of the dorm and is Florida training.
Where did you hear this from?
reliable sources.
Don't buy that at all. If that were the case we would have heard publicly. If he moved out then he's not coming back to school, so he's hiring an agent. And we would have heard.
believe what you want. you'll hear quite soon enough. Not starting rumors here...just sharing what I've been told.
Quote from: mugoose on March 28, 2016, 02:14:46 PM
believe what you want. you'll hear quite soon enough. Not starting rumors here...just sharing what I've been told.
I'm not saying he's not gone. I'd bet on it actually. But there's no way he's "already training in Florida" and it didn't come out publicly.
and I am saying what would I have to gain by making that up?
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on March 28, 2016, 02:16:48 PM
I'm not saying he's not gone. I'd bet on it actually. But there's no way he's "already training in Florida" and it didn't come out publicly.
Can confirm HE currently in south of Spain. Moved out of dorms last week, currently training to become bull fighter.
#reliablesource
Quote from: mugoose on March 28, 2016, 01:59:10 PM
reliable sources.
This is hilarious. There's literally nothing out there to even remotely indicate that happened. In 2016, there would be smoke.
Quote from: mugoose on March 28, 2016, 02:29:48 PM
and I am saying what would I have to gain by making that up?
Same as the other few dozen or so people who have claimed to know something about Henry's decision.
You may be right. I have no idea. But as others have said, I'd be very surprised if HE could make it down to Florida to train without some media outlet getting wind of it.
Quote from: mugoose on March 28, 2016, 02:29:48 PM
and I am saying what would I have to gain by making that up?
Not saying you are making it up. You may have misheard or just passed along bad info.
No biggie. We will find out soon enough.
Quote from: Windyplayer on March 28, 2016, 02:39:36 PM
This is hilarious. There's literally nothing out there to even remotely indicate that happened. In 2016, there would be smoke.
This... And Howard's response...
+1's
I love how "reliable source" is supposed to be a respected term. There are some on these boards that can say anything and I'll believe it (see:BD, and others).
I've been on this board long enough to not discount stuff like this out of hand. People have come up with stuff out of nowhere that have turned out to be correct.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 28, 2016, 02:49:33 PM
I've been on this board long enough to not discount stuff like this out of hand. People have come up with stuff out of nowhere that have turned out to be correct.
+1 Considering there is no info out there - who knows with any certainty.
Not doubting it but it seems a waste for HE not to finish the year. Didn't even Shaq go back and finish his degree?
Quote from: elephantraker on March 28, 2016, 02:52:28 PM
Not doubting it but it seems a waste for HE not to finish the year. Didn't even Shaq go back and finish his degree?
Shaquille not only finished his education, but he has a PhD.
He graduated Muchum Come Lousy from Trump University, ai na?
Quote from: Pakuni on March 28, 2016, 01:45:39 PM
Carl Levert, for sure.
Maybe Melo Trimble.
Levert wasn't going round 1.
He got hurt which is gonna hurt him more. But needed to comeback. He wasn't gonna be on a roster
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 28, 2016, 02:49:33 PM
I've been on this board long enough to not discount stuff like this out of hand. People have come up with stuff out of nowhere that have turned out to be correct.
Far from confirming any rumor. But wally did mention in an Instagram post last week he was in Florida. But could have just been a family trip to Florida over break.
Quote from: MUpugnacity on March 28, 2016, 05:32:04 PM
Far from confirming any rumor. But wally did mention in an Instagram post last week he was in Florida. But could have just been a family trip to Florida over break.
That was most likely with the Track team. I had some friends on the Track team and they would usually go on a trip during Spring Break.
Hayes is awful and not NBA caliber. He's too slow. Can't shoot and can't jump. If I drafted him as a GM I would be fired.
Henry needs to grow and get better. He has the potential to be very good. Patience my son.
Why is this thread so long?
Henry is long gone.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on March 28, 2016, 06:37:11 PM
Hayes is awful and not NBA caliber. He's too slow. Can't shoot and can't jump. If I drafted him as a GM I would be fired.
Agree. Don't understand how anyone can think he's an NBA player.
Quote from: fjm on March 28, 2016, 02:31:33 PM
Can confirm HE currently in south of Spain. Moved out of dorms last week, currently training to become bull fighter.
#reliablesource
With the questions around his lateral quickness.......even with the $ associated with the highest levels of bull fighting, he's going to get gored. Much safer in Milwaukee.
Quote from: naginiF on March 28, 2016, 08:47:02 PM
With the questions around his lateral quickness.......even with the $ associated with the highest levels of bull fighting, he's going to get gored. Much safer in Milwaukee.
Don't worry. Henry only fights the easy bulls.
Haha both great responses
Quote from: mugoose on March 28, 2016, 02:29:48 PM
and I am saying what would I have to gain by making that up?
you could very well have a point there, but remember, shaka was a done deal too-ein'a so? that's where the guarded skepticism comes from-just sayin
Fwiw Chad Ford released his updated top 100 list tonight. HeNBA came in at #6:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/top100/_/year/2016
#6 eh....
Well it was fun while it lasted! Hope
HE has an amazing NBA career!
Well, is HE in his 8 am class, hey?
no diamond stone?? what? must not have done well on the wonderlic ein'a?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 29, 2016, 08:31:21 AM
Well, is HE in his 8 am class, hey?
The most debated post ever as to whether to use teal or not?
Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 29, 2016, 08:46:15 AM
no diamond stone?? what? must not have done well on the wonderlic ein'a?
Stone is #18.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 28, 2016, 09:46:14 PM
Fwiw Chad Ford released his updated top 100 list tonight. HeNBA came in at #6:
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft/results/top100/_/year/2016
Well we have given HE 11 pages of excuses (some good | some not so good), but my guess is the sources that make-up Chad Ford's mock draft is the only advice he needs to make his decision.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 29, 2016, 09:02:05 AM
Well we have given HE 11 pages of excuses (some good | some not so good), but my guess is the sources that make-up Chad Ford's mock draft is the only advice he needs to make his decision.
Well, considering that the actual results won't be known for months, the majority of Ford's "sources" aren't really helping right now.
Quote from: Benny B on March 29, 2016, 09:08:05 AM
Well, considering that the actual results won't be known for months, the majority of Ford's "sources" aren't really helping right now.
My bad, I assume he speaks with GMs
Quote from: mugoose on March 28, 2016, 02:14:46 PM
believe what you want. you'll hear quite soon enough. Not starting rumors here...just sharing what I've been told.
But wasn't he already spotted wearing a backpack?
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 29, 2016, 09:09:33 AM
My bad, I assume he speaks with GMs
Sorry... I thought this was more widely known.
http://deadspin.com/espns-chad-ford-has-been-retroactively-editing-draft-bo-1681631642
Quote from: Benny B on March 29, 2016, 09:15:25 AM
Sorry... I thought this was more widely known.
http://deadspin.com/espns-chad-ford-has-been-retroactively-editing-draft-bo-1681631642
That is pretty funny
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on March 29, 2016, 09:10:33 AM
But wasn't he already spotted wearing a backpack?
For Scoop purposes:
Backpack = No boot?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 29, 2016, 09:31:05 AM
For Scoop purposes:
Backpack = No boot?
Backpack = Staying in school.
In my day backpack meant sneaking beer or alcohol into the dorms. Maybe he'll be celebrating going pro?
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 29, 2016, 10:03:30 AM
In my day backpack meant sneaking beer or alcohol into the dorms. Maybe he'll be celebrating going pro?
Nothing has changed. Cans. Much quieter.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 29, 2016, 10:03:30 AM
In my day backpack meant sneaking beer or alcohol into the dorms. Maybe he'll be celebrating going pro?
When I was a freshman, every Thursday I would go to my 9:30 AM English class, stop by Dany's on 17th Street afterwards for a case of something since he never carded, and walked right into McCormick. They never checked backpacks on a Thursday morning.
I didn't get as far as I have in this world without a little forethought.
Henry has been Top 10 in NBA Draft Express's mock since at least Sept 2014. I doubt seeing his name at 6 is going to change alter his decision. He and his family have been anticipating this decision for years.
As for Ford's reliability, I follow the draft closely and he is usually on. I actually believe him when he says ESPN changed the mocks afterwards.
1) ESPN never disputed it / fired him
2) writers submit copy, then it goes thru various channels before being posted. He might be able to self publish blogs but I highly doubt he can self publish a mock draft given the coding / graphics etc
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 29, 2016, 10:08:20 AM
When I was a freshman, every Thursday I would go to my 9:30 AM English class, stop by Dany's on 17th Street afterwards for a case of something since he never carded, and walked right into McCormick. They never checked backpacks on a Thursday morning.
I didn't get as far as I have in this world without a little forethought.
Dany's was the spot and a great man running the ship. Hope all is well with him. The 48 pack's of classic ice with two energy drinks he sold were a staple in my
group.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 29, 2016, 10:08:20 AM
When I was a freshman, every Thursday I would go to my 9:30 AM English class, stop by Dany's on 17th Street afterwards for a case of something since he never carded, and walked right into McCormick. They never checked backpacks on a Thursday morning.
I didn't get as far as I have in this world without a little forethought.
I thought Dany should have been my graduation speaker.
So many students would not have survived pre-21 without him!
Quote from: BobWildLoyalist on March 29, 2016, 11:54:13 AM
Dany's was the spot and a great man running the ship. Hope all is well with him. The 48 pack's of classic ice with two energy drinks he sold were a staple in my
group.
You guys musta been a bunch of drunks. Classic Ice is some nasty sh!t
I was a Miller Lite guy. Unless I went for the 40 oz of Olde English 800.
Quote from: swoopem on March 29, 2016, 01:46:51 PM
You guys musta been a bunch of drunks. Classic Ice is some nasty sh!t
The beer company I worked for in College made/distributed Classic Ice 48 packs. Sometimes when we packaged those, we would slip a bag of pretzels/beer nuts in too (to mask the flavor probably).
You are Welcome.
Pretty good run of 10 or so pages before this thread went in another direction. Color me impressed.
I follow this mock draft as it consistently has Henry ranked lower than the others.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft
He is currently 16th.
The Money is good, but not necessarily set for life as the top 5 or so are.
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 29, 2016, 03:46:35 PM
I follow this mock draft as it consistently has Henry ranked lower than the others.
Yes, but is it accurate? Or are you saying you just want to look at info that projects HE lower?
Quote from: lessthannick11 on March 29, 2016, 01:58:40 PM
The beer company I worked for in College made/distributed Classic Ice 48 packs. Sometimes when we packaged those, we would slip a bag of pretzels/beer nuts in too (to mask the flavor probably).
You are Welcome.
After 12 Classic Ice's I didn't care or know what I was drinking. Swoopem always had to carry that massive case home from Dany's because he wasn't quick enough on the "not carrying" draw. Home was also like 3 blocks away on 20th and Michigan. Probably explains his girlish figure and constant need to take off his shirt looking for some reassurance
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 29, 2016, 03:52:35 PM
Yes, but is it accurate? Or are you saying you just want to look at info that projects HE lower?
It is also the one that performed historically the weakest. I have no idea why he chooses to follow that one.
Data from last year's 2015 NBA Draft
(http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/123/files/2015/06/Untitled1.png)
OK so not *the* weakest, but behind ones like Draft Express and Ford at ESPN.
What's up with Aldridge? NBA.com's own insider doesn't have the connections?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 29, 2016, 05:14:58 PM
OK so not *the* weakest, but behind ones like Draft Express and Ford at ESPN.
Sultan, just to clarify im with you. Have heard Nbadraft.net is pretty bad over the years.
No I very much appreciate the stats. Thanks.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 29, 2016, 03:46:35 PM
I follow this mock draft as it consistently has Henry ranked lower than the others.
http://www.nbadraft.net/2016mock_draft
He is currently 16th.
The Money is good, but not necessarily set for life as the top 5 or so are.
http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/info/rookie_scale
The number 1 draft pick get $13m total. That is not enough to fund your life after basketball the next 50 to 60 years (one and done has no other skill other than HS basketball coach).
Again, for a guy like HE, the first contract is a purgatory that much we waited out until the second and third contact. That is the money. The first contract is just noise ... if he is really as good as everyone says.
So, again, it is irrelevant where he gets drafted. I would argue going 10 to 15 might be better as you go to a better team that might he develop you more for the second contract. You really want to go the that mess known as the Nets, Suns or Knicks? That is a jail sentence. Better to be drafted by Dallas or Washington, organizations that actually have a clue
Did anyone see HE on campus today? Did he return to school from Springbreak?
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 29, 2016, 07:45:20 PM
The number 1 draft pick get $13m total. That is not enough to fund your life after basketball the next 50 to 60 years (one and done has no other skill other than HS basketball coach).
If you have a decent financial guy, that's more than enough. Before increasing that's over $200k per year for 60 years. Before taxes, but still, enough if you don't live like an idiot.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 29, 2016, 08:14:36 PM
If you have a decent financial guy, that's more than enough. Before increasing that's over $200k per year for 60 years. Before taxes, but still, enough if you don't live like an idiot.
I was just gonna say that, 13 million is way more than enough. Pretty sure my parents will never see anywhere close to that amount but we're still able to live very comfortably.
If you can average a 5% rate of return, $13 million gets you $650,000 per year.
Was told no Henry in class today.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 29, 2016, 08:18:25 PM
I was just gonna say that, 13 million is way more than enough. Pretty sure my parents will never see anywhere close to that amount but we're still able to live very comfortably.
That is before tax. More than 40% will go for taxes. There will not be much left to save, if player cannot control his spending.
Quote from: onepostwarrior on March 29, 2016, 08:25:30 PM
Was told no Henry in class today.
Oh.
(Not directed at you)
As Patrick Ewing said, "Sure we make a lot of money. But we spend a lot too"
Quote from: onepostwarrior on March 29, 2016, 08:25:30 PM
Was told no Henry in class today.
Anything else you can add or is this third hand?
Hey New York Warrrior!
NBA Draft Net is literally the WORST
DraftExpress is the best. Jonathon Giviney (top editor) is a regular on Woj's site + many others. And years ago Chicos bragged on him.
STOP looking at NBA draft Net. It sucks.
It would be like a few years ago me saying Cam Newton sucked and you saying he was Top 5.
The more you quote NBA draft Net the worst you sound.
Henry was top 10 his senior year of HS, and he's stayed there.
WAKE UP TO REALITY!!!!!
You guys don't get it...whether Henry stays or goes, he HAS to finish class...otherwise it will affect MU's APR in future years..That's the bottom line. He's not going to just stick it to MU like that.
Quote from: muguru on March 29, 2016, 08:43:05 PM
You guys don't get it...whether Henry stays or goes, he HAS to finish class...otherwise it will affect MU's APR in future years..That's the bottom line. He's not going to just stick it to MU like that.
He doesn't have to do anything. Many of our 4 yr pros did the same thing
Quote from: muguru on March 29, 2016, 08:43:05 PM
You guys don't get it...whether Henry stays or goes, he HAS to finish class...otherwise it will affect MU's APR in future years..That's the bottom line. He's not going to just stick it to MU like that.
How do you know? Why does he care about MU?
Quote from: The Lens on March 29, 2016, 08:44:49 PM
How do you know? Why does he care about MU?
His parents care...in case you forget, his dad is an Alum. His mom is a teacher. I'm pretty sure education is important to them.
Henry doesn't have to be physically in class to continue with school. I feel confident that even if Henry enters the draft, he will find a way to retain his academic eligibility and therefore not harm MU's APR score.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 29, 2016, 08:54:02 PM
Henry doesn't have to be physically in class to continue with school. I feel confident that even if Henry enters the draft, he will find a way to retain his academic eligibility and therefore not harm MU's APR score.
Exactly my point.
Quote from: bilsu on March 29, 2016, 08:34:00 PM
That is before tax. More than 40% will go for taxes. There will not be much left to save, if player cannot control his spending.
Yes plus 20% to his agent. After tax/agent that is about $7.5 to $8 million
Remember, this is the #1 pick, halve it for the 10th pick.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 29, 2016, 08:23:20 PM
If you can average a 5% rate of return, $13 million gets you $650,000 per year.
Lifetime annuities are offering about 3%, not 5%. But these start at age 40, not 22. The rate is probably lower at 22 (more risk for the annuity writer) but let's use 3%
So if Henry is the 10th pick, completely busts out of basketball and never gets a second contract, he can get an annuity giving him about $100k, a year. Now this assumes no stupid spending, no cars, girls, clothes, posse, bad investments, giant fish tanks that look like boom boxes (calling you out Jimmy!) ... Basically all the stuff Pakuni said he will blow his Money on above (Pakuni, I'm agreeing with you). In other words he needs to enter the NBA as a 19 year old from Rice Lake living in his parents house on a 19 year old Rice lake budget. Anyone believe this will happen?
So if Henry is concerned he will be a bust, I would argue a four year free MU degree would be worth more than a rookie contract, stay in school.
My point is this is NOT a financial decision. The first contract is not that important. It is a lifestyle decision.
So the question is when do you want to start the clock to getting to your second or third contract? Now (this year) or do you want to play another year with your brother at the college ranks. Whatever is important to you.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 29, 2016, 09:11:39 PM
Yes plus 20% to his agent. After tax/agent that is about $7.5 to $8 million
Remember, this is the #1 pick, halve it for the 10th pick.
Lifetime annuities are offering about 3%, not 5%. But these start at age 40, not 22. The rate is probably lower at 22 (more risk for the annuity writer) but let's use 3%
So if Henry is the 10th pick, completely busts out of basketball and never gets a second contract, he can get an annuity giving him about $100k, a year. Now this assumes no stupid spending, no cars, girls, clothes, posse, bad investments, giant fish tanks that look like boom boxes (calling you out Jimmy!) ... Basically all the stuff Pakuni said he will blow his Money on above (Pakuni, I'm agreeing with you). In other words he needs to enter the NBA as a 19 year old from Rice Lake living in his parents house on a 19 year old Rice lake budget. Anyone believe this will happen?
So if Henry is concerned he will be a bust, I would argue a four year free MU degree would be worth more than a rookie contract, stay in school.
My point is this is NOT a financial decision. The first contract is not that important. It is a lifestyle decision.
So the question is when do you want to start the clock to getting to your second or third contract? Now (this year) or do you want to play another year with your brother at the college ranks. Whatever is important to you.
I personally know a guy who works for a pretty big time sports agency. 20% is insane. It's closer to 4-6%
Quote from: Shark on March 29, 2016, 09:16:11 PM
I personally know a guy who works for a pretty big time sports agency. 20% is insane. It's closer to 4-6%
20%, as I understand it, is a full service firm, contracts, money, investments, sponsorships, making hookers and arrest records disappear, etc.
4% to 6% sound like basic services.
Heck your typically crappy underperforming hedge fund takes 2% fee and 20% of the profits.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 29, 2016, 09:11:39 PM
Yes plus 20% to his agent. After tax that is about $7.5 to $8 million
Remember, this is the #1 pick, halve it for the 10th pick.
Lifetime annuities are offering about 3%, not 5%. But these start at age 40, not 22. The rate is probably lower at 22 (more risk for the annuity writer) but let's use 3%
So if Henry is the 10th pick, completely busts out of basketball and never gets a second contract, he can get an annuity giving him about $100k, a year. Now this assumes no stupid spending, no cars, girls, clothes, posse, bad investments, giant fish tanks that look like boom boxes (calling you out Jimmy!) ... Basically all the stuff Pakuni said he will blow his Money on above (Pakuni, I'm agreeing with you). In other words he needs to enter the NBA as a 19 year old from Rice Lake living in his parents house on a 19 year old Rice lake budget. Anyone believe this will happen?
So if Henry is concerned he will be a bust, I would argue a four year free MU degree would be worth more than a rookie contract, stay in school.
My point is this is NOT a financial decision. The first contract is not that important. It is a lifestyle decision.
So the question is when do you want to start the clock to getting to your second or third contract? Now (this year) or do you want to play another year with your brother at the college ranks. Whatever is important to you.
This is purely a finance decision, and your attempt at separating lifestyle vs fiances is absurd, especially considering the source. So he stays for 4 years and then what? Gets a degree he won't use (unless he's washed up, in which case he should have left as a freshman) and a slightly larger rookie paycheck, which doesn't consider potential losses from an injury? What's equally absurd is your 20% agent cut claim. If Ellenson's agent were to take a 20% cut he would be raked harder than nearly any player in recent history. The average agent cut is less than 10%.
If Henry's concerned he'll be a bust now, he should be considerably more concerned he'll be a bust at the end of his senior year, which at that point he would get nothing at all. If his rookie contract doesn't work out, he's terrible, and Europe won't pay him, he'd still have enough money to come back to MU and finish his degree.
Today's USA Today has Henry going 9th. Today.
Quote from: hepennypacker5000 on March 29, 2016, 09:26:32 PM
This is purely a finance decision, and your attempt at separating lifestyle vs fiances is absurd, especially considering the source. So he stays for 4 years and then what? Gets a degree he won't use (unless he's washed up, in which case he should have left as a freshman) and a slightly larger rookie paycheck, which doesn't consider potential losses from an injury? What's equally absurd is your 20% agent cut claim. If Ellenson's agent were to take a 20% cut he would be raked harder than nearly any player in recent history. The average agent cut is less than 10%.
If Henry's concerned he'll be a bust now, he should be considerably more concerned he'll be a bust at the end of his senior year, which at that point he would get nothing at all. If his rookie contract doesn't work out, he's terrible, and Europe won't pay him, he'd still have enough money to come back to MU and finish his degree.
Fine, the agent cut is 5%, so after tax is 4 to 4.5 or 115k/year for life.
If Henry is being driven by the decision of the money won't be there in a year because he might get hurt, than he is not gonna take a charge, he's not to be asked to put back into our second overtime game when his body doesn't feel right, yes not going to play with injury. In other words, he's going to play not to lose and will be a bust.
My point is Henry WILL make $200 million in his career whether he starts it this year next year or the year after. It simply doesn't matter what year he comes out. He'll get paid, and the rookie contract is not that important because it is the second and third contract that will make him the real money. So it becomes a lifestyle decision. Does he want to play basketball with his brother in college one more year, or is he ready to go to the show now?
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 29, 2016, 09:20:24 PM
20%, as I understand it, is a full service firm, contracts, money, investments, sponsorships, making hookers and arrest records disappear, etc.
4% to 6% sound like basic services.
Heck your typically crappy underperforming hedge fund takes 2% fee and 20% of the profits.
What? I hope that's not your personal funds. If so, you need to meet different fund managers.
Quote from: naginiF on March 29, 2016, 09:59:17 PM
What? I hope that's not your personal funds. If so, you need to meet different fund managers.
That is their standard fee
our agreement isn't that cut and dry but (without crunching numbers) we're about 2.5-3% fee and 10-12.5% profit. it may be different for institutional investors (i have no idea).
this is also the most derailed a thread could be ---- totally my fault.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 29, 2016, 09:50:16 PM
Fine, the agent cut is 5%, so after tax is 4 to 4.5 or 115k/year for life.
If Henry is being driven by the decision of the money won't be there in a year because he might get hurt, than he is not gonna take a charge, he's not to be asked to put back into our second overtime game when his body doesn't feel right, yes not going to play with injury. In other words, he's going to play not to lose and will be a bust.
My point is Henry WILL make $200 million in his career whether he starts it this year next year or the year after. It simply doesn't matter what year he comes out. He'll get paid, and the rookie contract is not that important because it is the second and third contract that will make him the real money. So it becomes a lifestyle decision. Does he want to play basketball with his brother in college one more year, or is he ready to go to the show now?
Guys at this level are going to play hard regardless of what league they're in, that has nothing to do with it. I'm not questioning his heart. Like I said, the idea that he will make it to his senior season without a career ending or draft stock hurting injury simply isn't true. Injurys happen and they have nothing to do with heart, they just happen. Yes the second and third contract are more important if he wants to make $200 million, but talking about the second and third contract is useless if he risks injury in a no-money league just to get his first.
Look as an MU fan I want Henry to stay, but seeing posts in this thread where he looks top 15, I won't begrudge him for making a business decision.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 29, 2016, 09:50:16 PM
Fine, the agent cut is 5%, so after tax is 4 to 4.5 or 115k/year for life.
If Henry is being driven by the decision of the money won't be there in a year because he might get hurt, than he is not gonna take a charge, he's not to be asked to put back into our second overtime game when his body doesn't feel right, yes not going to play with injury. In other words, he's going to play not to lose and will be a bust.
My point is Henry WILL make $200 million in his career whether he starts it this year next year or the year after. It simply doesn't matter what year he comes out. He'll get paid, and the rookie contract is not that important because it is the second and third contract that will make him the real money. So it becomes a lifestyle decision. Does he want to play basketball with his brother in college one more year, or is he ready to go to the show now?
The NBA allows a maximum of 3% commission on the players salary. They can place different commissions on endorsements etc (typically in the range of 4-10%), but the max is 3% on salary. Same for the NFL.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 29, 2016, 10:02:19 PM
That is their standard fee
No it's not. You're either getting fleeced or you don't have much to invest if you're finding that to be typical.
You realize it's because of guys like you why Ponzi's were invented.
Heisenberg has four dollars to his name.. the percentages don't mean much, a''ina??
Quote from: Benny B on March 29, 2016, 11:00:44 PM
No it's not. You're either getting fleeced or you don't have much to invest if you're finding that to be typical.
You realize it's because of guys like you why Ponzi's were invented.
Completely wrong ... Start a new thread if you want to be corrected here, not hijacking this thread to educate you.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 29, 2016, 08:38:49 PM
Anything else you can add or is this third hand?
Third hand. Same friend who told me he was looking at suits and trucks in mid-January ("looks like we officially know what Northern Sconnies do with substantial amounts of money" was the joke at the time) during class told me that he wasn't in class today. Neither of us is treating it like a death sentence, but it certainly stands out.
I think the longer he's taking the better our odds, especially with literally any college player with pro aspirations seemingly declaring within the past week. My assumption there was that when he finally does state something it would be more definitive than any of these other guys ("testing the waters" and not hiring an agent). My guess is when he comes out and states his intentions it will either be "I'm coming back for another year" (obviously definitive) or "I am declaring for the draft and hiring an agent". While yeah you assume the worst hearing he wasn't in class none of us are totally resigned to him leaving quite yet.
Until he says he is coming back it is 100% chance he is going. Not really true statistics, but that is how I see it. Basically he has not announced that he is staying, so he is gone.
So, he hasn't been spotted walking around campus with his backpack on post spring break?
Quote from: bilsu on March 30, 2016, 07:21:42 AM
Until he says he is coming back it is 100% chance he is going. Not really true statistics, but that is how I see it. Basically he has not announced that he is staying, so he is gone.
That is totally backwards...if you're staying, you wouldn't have to announce anything, it's just business as usual.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 29, 2016, 11:34:34 PM
Completely wrong ... Start a new thread if you want to be corrected here, not hijacking this thread to educate you.
H is right; he said
Hedge Fund, not any investment fund, mutual fund, ETF etc. Hedge Fund (or most any private equity type fund) is a different ball game.
Quote from: muguru on March 30, 2016, 07:35:51 AM
That is totally backwards...if you're staying, you wouldn't have to announce anything, it's just business as usual.
Henry needs to announce something, one way or another, or this place is gonna implode
Quote from: The Lens on March 29, 2016, 08:41:36 PM
Hey New York Warrrior!
NBA Draft Net is literally the WORST
DraftExpress is the best. Jonathon Giviney (top editor) is a regular on Woj's site + many others. And years ago Chicos bragged on him.
STOP looking at NBA draft Net. It sucks.
It would be like a few years ago me saying Cam Newton sucked and you saying he was Top 5.
The more you quote NBA draft Net the worst you sound.
Henry was top 10 his senior year of HS, and he's stayed there.
WAKE UP TO REALITY!!!!!
I look at that particular Mock Draft as it consistently has had Henry lower although he has trended up. Earlier in the year he was in the 22-24 range and he has slowly worked way up to 15-16 range. Henry is now 9th on the Draft Express list so he has been trending slightly down on that. Both Mock sites have detailed scouting reports on Henry that are remarkably very similar. In a nutshell,Praise his offense and question his defense.
My view is Henry is gone if he and the family are confident he is a high enough first round pick. i put in the salary chart to show that Middle of the first round money is not a no brainer.
By the way I am not a Cam Newton fan. He has is not a very accurate passer ( in addition to being a dick). Have seen him work out many times.I was at the Super Bowl this year and a more accurate quarterback would have completed many more of the critical passes. Yes he is tall and athletic but he has other limitations . Ron Jaworski is a friend of mine and I look at his quarterback rankings pretty closely and he had Cam 18th last year going into the season. Obviously in the right circumstance he was able to get Carolina into the championship game so that is the offset as well.
Henry will pay his agent a max of 3%.
For endorsements he will pay about 20% but obviously that is bonus money.
I would guess between shoes / basketball cards & stickers as a top 10 pick he could make about $750,000 to $1,000,000 off the court in his rookie year.
The memorabilia won't keep up (rookies have highest values) but the shoe deal should grow as he gets better.
And all of that is before getting a real endorsement like being used by Kia, T Mobile, State Farm, etc, etc.
My guess is he is deciding between putting his name with an agent or without and that is why there has been no announcement. If it looks like he is going to be 12-16 (the bottom of his projections) maybe he puts in without a agent to gather more info. I think if he looks to fall to 15 he might stay and get stronger and round out a few rough edges in his game. put on more strength, play in the NCAA once with his brother and if he goes #5-#8 he makes up al the money he lost in the 1st 3 years. there is a trend of older NCAA players going higher. NBA teams seem to look at this as the safer route. Henry is rated right around Heldt and Dunn. If I was drafting who would you take of those 3 assuming you needed everything? And as Fresh go Henry is one of the safer one and dones at around #6-#10.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 30, 2016, 07:50:52 AM
I look at that particular Mock Draft as it consistently has had Henry lower although he has trended up.
So you look at that particular site, even though it has a history of not being as accurate, simply because he has him going lower?
How on earth does that make sense?
Marquette..................... 30 42 - 72 FINAL SCORE 90-72
Xavier........................ 46 44 - 90
2016 Big East Tournament - Quarterfinals
13 Ellenson, Henry..... f 4-9 1-3 5-6 0 3 3 4 14 0 1 2 0 28
my thoughts/hopes-this may have been(above) the biggest game to enter in to HE's decision making process. add this to
20-13 Conf.
8-10 Home
12-7 Away
6-5 Neutral
2-1
plus a wisconsin guy wants to go out on a higher note and show that he can make the players around him better. barring an injury or a "life event", his draft status will not change much, only his maturity and educational level.
i point this out as, yes, i know HE is young, but check out the part where brewtown andy notes HE's struggling with players of similar size-at the college level. now, multiply that by 100 for the NBA...hmmmmm. i don't think the D-league is an option here, but there are a number of things that will be taken in to consideration here. yes, HE's potential is the BIG VARIABLE
Offensive fouls are killing this team's offensive efficiency. Straight up murdering it in its sleep, suffocating possessions before they have a chance to live to their best possible potential: a made field goal.
Who are the biggest offenders? Well, let's look, shall we?
Player Off. Fouls % of Team OffFouls % of PF % of TO
Henry Ellenson 16 23.2 27.6 26.2
Luke Fischer 12 17.4 18.5 30
Haanif Cheatham 9 13 16.7 12.7
Sandy Cohen 7 10.1 10.1 22.6
Traci Carter 6 8.7 8.8 10.7
Matt Heldt 6 8.7 37.5 75
Duane Wilson 5 7.2 9.4 9.3
Jajuan Johnson 4 5.8 12.9 13.3
Wally Ellenson 3 4.3 10.3 60
Sacar Anim 1 1.4 11.1 20
In addition to pointing out who has the most offensive fouls and the percentage of the team's offensive fouls that they account for, I also threw in a column showing you how many of their own personal fouls are occupied by those offensive fouls, and the same thing for their personal turnover total.
I don't know if there's really any kind of official trends or statistical analysis to be pulled out of this, but these are the things that jumped out at me from these numbers:
It's not exactly a secret that Henry Ellenson isn't the most efficient player on the face of the planet, but accounting for 20+% of the team's offensive fouls is really not helping his whole deal. Also not helping: spending more than 25% of his fouls and turnovers on offensive fouls.
How much of this is just Ellenson struggling with physicality against players that are more similar to him in size? Did you watch him play for Rice Lake? Let's put it this way: There wasn't a lot of dudes that had any chance of defending a player of Henry Ellenson's size and agility in the north woods of Wisconsin. Look at Matt Heldt's line in that table. He only has six offensive fouls on the season, but that's 38% of his total fouls (a lot) and 75% of his turnovers (a whole hell of a lot). Heldt's kind of in the same circumstance as Ellenson as far as the size goes, and he seems to be struggling with the offensive end of things just as much, if not more. In Neenah's games, was it easier for Heldt to make a quick move with his long legs and arms and suddenly be just way past some poor 6'5" sap who got stuck defending Heldt because he was the tallest guy at his school? Absolutely. Same thing for Ellenson. But now they've got the James Farrs of the world defending them, and it's a wholly different issue when they make that quick move and they slam into the dude and it's a charge.
Marquette's three post players - Henry Ellenson, Luke Fischer, and Matt Heldt - are responsible for 34 of MU's offensive fouls, which is essentially half of them. I just pulled these stats from box scores, not from any kind of video review, so I don't know how many of these fouls are charges and how many are illegal screens. But, from seeing half the offensive fouls come from the three tallest players on the team, I'm left with a possible conclusion: Given that Wojo was responsible for coaching the post players at Duke, he and his staff are struggling to coach the post players given the new emphasis on cleaning up physicality on both sides of post play this season.
Marquette's two worst players in terms of individual turnover rate are Traci Carter (30.5%) and Haanif Cheatham (27.8%). For the most part, their problems are not offensive fouls. 11% and 13% respectively are not that significant for guys who are turning it over as much as those two dudes are relative to their time on the court. Carter is also getting whistled for five fouls per 40 minutes, which is a ton, but only 9% of his fouls are of the offensive variety, which isn't that significant either.
Of the guys on the team who are playing more than 10% of MU's minutes, Luke Fischer has the second lowest turnover rate. His 16.1% is only surpassed by Wally Ellenson's 10.7%. But 30% of Fischer's turnovers are offensive fouls. He's remarkably surehanded with the ball, probably even more so for a guy his size, and he'd be AMAZING if he wasn't getting hooked for an offensive foul every other game on average.
Did I miss anything interesting there? What jumps out at you?
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just saying these numbers plus a legacy are going through the ellensons heads(note-plural, as in family) i think HE knows HE can and wants to leave on a higher note and knows HE can do better. just saying this is all playing a part. we are talking about a close knit, proud, midwestern family here. that's why we haven't heard anything yet. everyone is talking number$. i'm sure they have crunched these long ago. now it comes down to a "life decision" brass tacks baby. something HE is and they are ALL IN on. no looking back, no regrets. how does HE want to be seen looking back?? biggest decision of HE's life tic tic tic tic
Offensive fouls are killing this team's offensive efficiency. Straight up murdering it in its sleep, suffocating possessions before they have a chance to live to their best possible potential: a made field goal.
I love this
Quote from: LloydsLegs on March 30, 2016, 07:36:37 AM
H is right; he said Hedge Fund, not any investment fund, mutual fund, ETF etc. Hedge Fund (or most any private equity type fund) is a different ball game.
Perhaps a straight-up, 2% asset management fee/20% pref may be the standard for the funds which the
typical investor has access to, but what the industry would term as a
typical PE fund has minimum requirements that very few investors meet. The fee structure is drastically different between a PE fund where the average investor can plop down $25,000 vs. a fund where $1,000,000 is the price of admission.
Believe what you want; however, 'H' is unequivocally wrong that 2/20 is any sort of standard for "typically crappy, underperforming" funds, and I'll bet my carried interest on it.
BTW - If you're investing seven figures into an underperforming fund that's taking 2/20, send a PM to JayBee for some hot stock tips. But please don't PM me unless you want to experience the uncontrollable urge to strangle your current investment manager.
/end hijack*
* This should be teal, but I'm at least seasoned enough to know that Scoop is an airplane full of infidels and most Scoopers can't wait to meet their 40 virgins.
Quote from: Benny B on March 30, 2016, 09:03:14 AM
Perhaps a straight-up, 2% asset management fee/20% pref may be the standard for the funds which the typical investor has access to, but what the industry would term as a typical PE fund has minimum requirements that very few investors meet. The fee structure is drastically different between a PE fund where the average investor can plop down $25,000 vs. a fund where $1,000,000 is the price of admission.
Believe what you want; however, 'H' is unequivocally wrong that 2/20 is any sort of standard for "typically crappy, underperforming" funds, and I'll bet my carried interest on it.
BTW - If you're investing seven figures into an underperforming fund that's taking 2/20, send a PM to JayBee for some hot stock tips. But please don't PM me unless you want to experience the uncontrollable urge to strangle your current investment manager.
/end hijack*
* This should be teal, but I'm at least seasoned enough to know that Scoop is an airplane full of infidels and most Scoopers can't wait to meet their 40 virgins.
Marc Lasry Bucks co-owner is a hedge fund manager, Third Avenue Capital. He charges 2% and 20%. Same with the other co-owner of the Bucks, Wes Eden, he is of Fortress Investments. Stark capital in Milwaukee charges 2% and 20%.
Yes, hedge funds are for well-heeled investor ... Henry will qualify as one the day he is drafted. So the guy managing his money will make almost as much as his agent.
And yes they mostly suck, industry averages are not good. Same as mutual funds, they suck too. Active manager (hedge or mutual) is undergoing an exastential crisis, their entire purpose is being questioned. Index funds are taking over for them.
Done hijacking this thread, start another thread if you want to discuss further.
Quote from: Heisenberg on March 30, 2016, 12:11:06 PM
Marc Lasry Bucks co-owner is a hedge fund manager, Third Avenue Capital. He charges 2% and 20%. Same with the other co-owner of the Bucks, Wes Eden, he is of Fortress Investments. Stark capital in Milwaukee charges 2% and 20%.
Yes, hedge funds are for well-heeled investor ... Henry will qualify as one the day he is drafted. So the guy managing his money will make almost as much as his agent.
And yes they mostly suck, industry averages are not good. Same as mutual funds, they suck too. Active manager (hedge or mutual) is undergoing an exastential crisis, their entire purpose is being questioned. Index funds are taking over for them.
Done hijacking this thread, start another thread if you want to discuss further.
HOLD UP
Third Avenue =/= Avenue Capital
Third Avenue HY fund done 'sploded. Avenue Capital seems to be doin' A-okay
Marc Lasry runs Avenue Capital. Not Third Avenue.
The hell happened to this thread?
Quote from: Howard's Eagle on March 30, 2016, 01:27:51 PM
The hell happened to this thread?
If you want, I can derail it more about how my former company funded litigation against a ton of corrupt hedge funds.
Or we can just keep talking about what our Scoop spy sees from the Subway on Wells.
Quote from: JakeBarnes on March 30, 2016, 01:32:57 PM
If you want, I can derail it more about how my former company funded litigation against a ton of corrupt hedge funds.
Or we can just keep talking about what our Scoop spy sees from the Subway on Wells.
There's already another uncorrupted thread on the original topic.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=51332.0
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on March 30, 2016, 01:05:55 PM
HOLD UP
Third Avenue =/= Avenue Capital
Third Avenue HY fund done 'sploded. Avenue Capital seems to be doin' A-okay
Marc Lasry runs Avenue Capital. Not Third Avenue.
My bad third avenue is Marty Whitman
Yes their HY fund blew up
But so did avenue capital distressed fund, about the same time, which is why they get jumbled together.
Fun fact about Marc lasry, he was the inspiration for one of the characters in Rounders, he he bets poker to the point of an addiction. Sometimes millions of dollars per hand.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2016, 08:45:18 AM
Marquette..................... 30 42 - 72 FINAL SCORE 90-72
Xavier........................ 46 44 - 90
2016 Big East Tournament - Quarterfinals
13 Ellenson, Henry..... f 4-9 1-3 5-6 0 3 3 4 14 0 1 2 0 28
my thoughts/hopes-this may have been(above) the biggest game to enter in to HE's decision making process. add this to
20-13 Conf.
8-10 Home
12-7 Away
6-5 Neutral
2-1
plus a wisconsin guy wants to go out on a higher note and show that he can make the players around him better. barring an injury or a "life event", his draft status will not change much, only his maturity and educational level.
i point this out as, yes, i know HE is young, but check out the part where brewtown andy notes HE's struggling with players of similar size-at the college level. now, multiply that by 100 for the NBA...hmmmmm. i don't think the D-league is an option here, but there are a number of things that will be taken in to consideration here. yes, HE's potential is the BIG VARIABLE
[a giant swath of stuff C&P'd from an article (http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2016/2/10/10957204/marquette-basketball-offensive-fouls-turnovers-ellenson-fischer-carter-cheatham-heldt) from early February]
just saying these numbers plus a legacy are going through the ellensons heads(note-plural, as in family) i think HE knows HE can and wants to leave on a higher note and knows HE can do better. just saying this is all playing a part. we are talking about a close knit, proud, midwestern family here. that's why we haven't heard anything yet. everyone is talking number$. i'm sure they have crunched these long ago. now it comes down to a "life decision" brass tacks baby. something HE is and they are ALL IN on. no looking back, no regrets. how does HE want to be seen looking back?? biggest decision of HE's life tic tic tic tic
Hey. I wrote all of that stuff that I edited out of your post. I wasn't noting Henry's struggling with guys his size, I was asking if it's the case. I don't have access to video of every single one of Henry's offensive fouls this season, so I can't tell you if he actually is struggling. Since Heldt has an offensive foul problem and is much more of a traditional post, his O-fouls are much more likely to be the kind that I described.
It's possible that very few of Henry's offensive fouls are a result of struggling with size. Illegal screens would be noted as offensive fouls in the play-by-play, and I can think of more than one offensive foul on Henry this season that was a result of him either A) bullrushing someone over or B) a stiff arm clear out.
I also don't think that any of that has anything to do with whether or not Henry should enter the draft. NBA scouts and GMs who are much smarter than me when it comes to basketball are telling Draft Express that he's a top 10 pick, so they're not really worried about him measuring up against NBA players.
Quote from: LAMUfan on March 30, 2016, 08:57:28 AM
Offensive fouls are killing this team's offensive efficiency. Straight up murdering it in its sleep, suffocating possessions before they have a chance to live to their best possible potential: a made field goal.
I love this
Thanks!
Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 30, 2016, 08:45:18 AM
Offensive fouls are killing this team's offensive efficiency. Straight up murdering it in its sleep, suffocating possessions before they have a chance to live to their best possible potential: a made field goal.
lol, what? Absolutely bizarre claim.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on March 30, 2016, 05:31:55 PM
Hey. I wrote all of that stuff that I edited out of your post. I wasn't noting Henry's struggling with guys his size, I was asking if it's the case. I don't have access to video of every single one of Henry's offensive fouls this season, so I can't tell you if he actually is struggling. Since Heldt has an offensive foul problem and is much more of a traditional post, his O-fouls are much more likely to be the kind that I described.
It's possible that very few of Henry's offensive fouls are a result of struggling with size. Illegal screens would be noted as offensive fouls in the play-by-play, and I can think of more than one offensive foul on Henry this season that was a result of him either A) bullrushing someone over or B) a stiff arm clear out.
I also don't think that any of that has anything to do with whether or not Henry should enter the draft. NBA scouts and GMs who are much smarter than me when it comes to basketball are telling Draft Express that he's a top 10 pick, so they're not really worried about him measuring up against NBA players.
The whole point of my post was more along the lines that HE isn't exactly going out on a high note. All the other stuff is ancillary. I'm trying to approach this whole mystery by guessing what could go thru the ellensons minds as they are debating the inevitable. I'm sure they've beat up the money scenario. The next biggest thing to focus on is making a decision that will not be regretted. Making sure every possible scenario is reviewed. For example, Am I going to kick myself for not living one more year as a college kid and making my team and those around me better players. Footwork. Better 3 point shot(remember the NBAs is roughly 2 feet further, etc etc
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 30, 2016, 06:08:37 PM
lol, what? Absolutely bizarre claim.
At the time that I wrote that, slightly less than 20% of the team's very high number of turnovers were a result of offensive fouls.
http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2016/2/10/10957204/marquette-basketball-offensive-fouls-turnovers-ellenson-fischer-carter-cheatham-heldt
Quote from: JaJuanOnJuan on March 17, 2016, 10:38:07 PM
Henry is back. Rarely post, but I have a very very good source.
You should get a new very very good source. And go back to posting rarely.
Quote from: DienerTime34 on April 04, 2016, 09:52:23 AM
You should get a new very very good source. And go back to posting rarely.
Oh lay off the guy. Things change. Kids change their mind. It is what it is.
Quote from: Shark on April 04, 2016, 09:59:00 AM
Oh lay off the guy. Things change. Kids change their mind. It is what it is.
Respect the process, and such?
Quote from: Shark on April 04, 2016, 09:59:00 AM
Oh lay off the guy. Things change. Kids change their mind. It is what it is.
The point is nothing "changed."
I'm just saying
1. It really doesn't matter if his prediction or "source" was right or wrong. His Scoop ego took a hit, big deal.
2. There's no reason for people to jump down each other's throats on here so often. We are, mostly, all here for the same reasons.
Quote from: Shark on April 04, 2016, 11:24:30 AM
I'm just saying
1. It really doesn't matter if his prediction or "source" was right or wrong. His Scoop ego took a hit, big deal.
2. There's no reason for people to jump down each other's throats on here so often. We are, mostly, all here for the same reasons.
Gotcha. Don't disagree with this.
". There's no reason for people to jump down each other's throats on here so often..."
yeah-that's for the politics board-heyyyn'a? ;D
belling just announced HE hired an agent and he's.......gone
Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2016, 06:30:58 PM
belling just announced HE hired an agent and he's.......gone
sorry, i must be in a different time zone-good luck HE.
Belling was for once highly complinentary and touched on the Howard committ as being a really big deal
Quote from: HowardsWorld on April 04, 2016, 11:28:54 AM
Gotcha. Don't disagree with this.
Henry taking the long road...
Quote from: rocket surgeon on April 04, 2016, 06:30:58 PM
belling just announced HE hired an agent and he's.......gone
Other than reading yesterday's newspaper, what does Belling know?
He has no new news ... he has opinions.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on March 30, 2016, 11:07:35 PM
At the time that I wrote that, slightly less than 20% of the team's very high number of turnovers were a result of offensive fouls.
http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2016/2/10/10957204/marquette-basketball-offensive-fouls-turnovers-ellenson-fischer-carter-cheatham-heldt
...and? Guess what the D-I average is?