I know all the sage posters here think we needed two or thee in the BET... But ESPNs recap:
"UP NEXT:
Marquette: good enough for an NIT bid."
Are they smokin the herb or can I have some hope?
ESPN televises the NIT, so if they want us, that might help!
My expectation is the Vegas 16. Not impossible that we sneak into the NIT, but we don't really have a NIT RPI, at least based on the selection the past few years.
I just hope we're playing in some postseason tournament.
My guess is that we're still in the hunt for the NIT bid but can't afford too many more conference upsets including both auto bids and surprise high major conference winners that steal an NCAA bid and move someone off the bubble down.
I agree with brew. The restrictions associated with auto bids seems to mean that Vegas could end up being a decent tournament. Assuming money isn't the issue, I don't know why MU would turn down the chance to a) gain additional practice and game experience, b) gain further high pressure tournament experience, c) legitimately shoot for a second tourney championship this year, and d) provide Markus and Brendan a chance to hang with the guys hopefully further cementing that relationship.
The only two factors working against would be if Henry were to privately express concern about possible injury and the obvious financial commitment necessary.
In reading Matty V's postgame comments it sure sounds like the boys want to keep on playing. Wojo was quoted touting our 20 wins and our quality record against Top 100 opponents. Clearly the goal is the NIT. But I think our guys really want a crack at somebody. I sincerely hope they get a decent invite.
If you assume that 1) St. Mary's and Wichita State are getting NCAA bids, 2.) MU is NOT one of the "Last four out," and 3.) take the NIT auto bids into account, nearly half the NIT field is already spoken for.
4 teams "Last Four Out"
NIT Auto Bids for
Belmont
Bucknell
High Point
Hofstra
IPFW
Monmouth
North Florida
UAB
Valparaiso
Wagner
That right there is 14 out of 32 bids.
Friday games featuring #1 seeds from 1-bid conferences
Stephen F. Austin vs. Houston Baptist (Southland Semifinal)
Hampton vs. Savannah State (MEAC Semifinal)
Akron vs. Bowling Green (MAC Semifinal)
Weber State vs. North Dakota (Big Sky Semifinal)
New Mexico State vs. UMKC (WAC Semifinal)
San Diego State vs. Nevada (Mountain West Semifinal)
Hawaii vs. UC Santa Barbara (Big West Semifinal)
Texas Southern vs. Southern University (SWAC Semifinal)
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on March 11, 2016, 08:08:58 AM
If you assume that 1) St. Mary's and Wichita State are getting NCAA bids, 2.) MU is NOT one of the "Last four out," and 3.) take the NIT auto bids into account, nearly half the NIT field is already spoken for.
4 teams "Last Four Out"
NIT Auto Bids for
Belmont
Bucknell
High Point
Hofstra
IPFW
Monmouth
North Florida
UAB
Valparaiso
Wagner
That right there is 14 out of 32 bids.
Friday games featuring #1 seeds from 1-bid conferences
Stephen F. Austin vs. Houston Baptist (Southland Semifinal)
Hampton vs. Savannah State (MEAC Semifinal)
Akron vs. Bowling Green (MAC Semifinal)
Weber State vs. North Dakota (Big Sky Semifinal)
New Mexico State vs. UMKC (WAC Semifinal)
San Diego State vs. Nevada (Mountain West Semifinal)
Hawaii vs. UC Santa Barbara (Big West Semifinal)
Texas Southern vs. Southern University (SWAC Semifinal)
Outstanding work Spillproof.
MU will get an NIT invite.
In the latest NIT bracketology, Marquette is barely hanging on. And that was before the UAB loss. Simply put, MU needs the #1 seeds to win their tournaments and hope that the selection committee wants the marquee value that a guy like Henry can bring.
Then they will put us on the road to a place like Valpo because they'd draw the crowd.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on March 11, 2016, 08:08:58 AM
If you assume that 1) St. Mary's and Wichita State are getting NCAA bids, 2.) MU is NOT one of the "Last four out," and 3.) take the NIT auto bids into account, nearly half the NIT field is already spoken for.
4 teams "Last Four Out"
NIT Auto Bids for
Belmont
Bucknell
High Point
Hofstra
IPFW
Monmouth
North Florida
UAB
Valparaiso
Wagner
That right there is 14 out of 32 bids.
Friday games featuring #1 seeds from 1-bid conferences
Stephen F. Austin vs. Houston Baptist (Southland Semifinal)
Hampton vs. Savannah State (MEAC Semifinal)
Akron vs. Bowling Green (MAC Semifinal)
Weber State vs. North Dakota (Big Sky Semifinal)
New Mexico State vs. UMKC (WAC Semifinal)
San Diego State vs. Nevada (Mountain West Semifinal)
Hawaii vs. UC Santa Barbara (Big West Semifinal)
Texas Southern vs. Southern University (SWAC Semifinal)
Good work. Some observations:
1. Marquette isn't in the first four out or the next four out per Lunardi. That's probably 8 bids right there.
2. Its really sad the Mountain West has become a 1 bid league
3. The remaining 1 seeds (minus Hampton and Akron) are all far and away better than the rest of their conference. I feel decently confident in their chances to win their autobids.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 11, 2016, 08:40:13 AM
Then they will put us on the road to a place like Valpo because they'd draw the crowd.
This type of scenario, IMHO, is the only thing that keeps the NIT relevant when the tournament is going on. The idea of "Goliath in David's house." See also Kentucky vs. Robert Morris in the NIT a few years back.
Quote from: Buzz Williams' Spillproof Chiclets Cup on March 11, 2016, 08:46:21 AM
This type of scenario, IMHO, is the only thing that keeps the NIT relevant when the tournament is going on. The idea of "Goliath in David's house." See also Kentucky vs. Robert Morris in the NIT a few years back.
We aren't exactly Goliath.
I see the Las Vegas 16 mentioned often as an alternative to the NIT.
Is this tournament expected to be a higher level than the CIT or CBI? I think the only school from a major conference to accept a bid to either of those last season was Colorado with a 15-17 record.
Vegas also is a pay to participate tournament, although all the games will be held in Vegas rather than at campus sites.
FWIW, last season, Richmond, Alabama, Illinois, Arizona State, Pitt, Stanford, and Vanderbilt all got at-large NIT bids with less than 20 wins.
With the NIT being somewhat less formulaic in its selection process, I could see the weight of star power taking hold. ESPN has touted Ben Simmons' greatness all year so I expect LSU will get a bid. I could see them pushing for Marquette for the same reason. Something along the lines of seeing two of the top three freshman in the country in their tournament. So I would say Marquette has a factor going for them that other teams might not.
Ellenson and Simmons definitely have some drawing power. Will the NIT use that as a criteria? I'm not sure. The NCAA owns the NIT now, but do not own Vegas or the CBI. Might they try to get the big names into their own tournament just so any residual ratings the NIT does get goes to them and not the other tournaments?
That said, I'm not sure anyone will bother watching the smaller tournaments regardless who was playing. College hoops junkies, maybe, but I think most people get their basketball fix on weekends in March, not weekdays.
I heard yesterday that only 1 out of the 12 regular season champs had won their conf tournament.
Quote from: oldwarrior81 on March 11, 2016, 08:54:10 AM
I see the Las Vegas 16 mentioned often as an alternative to the NIT.
Is this tournament expected to be a higher level than the CIT or CBI? I think the only school from a major conference to accept a bid to either of those last season was Colorado with a 15-17 record.
Vegas also is a pay to participate tournament, although all the games will be held in Vegas rather than at campus sites.
Pretty sure Oregon State won the CBI last year.
Quote from: jsglow on March 11, 2016, 06:51:40 AM
Vegas could end up being a decent tournament.
legitimately shoot for a second tourney championship this year
I'm fairly certain that not even Tanned Tommy would want to hang that banner from the rafters...
NIT is the lowest we should sink.
It is depressing to think how we are rationalizing what three years ago would have triggered Scoop Armageddon.
I hope the Administration is taking stock because this program is not meeting the mark.
Here's the list of potential at-large bids according to bracket matrix (I removed any that Lunardi has in the NCAAs)
Currently In:
Connecticut: 21-10, RPI 55, SOS 56 (Still alive)
Syracuse: 19-13, RPI 66, SOS 41 (Already lost)
Florida: 19-13, RPI 46, SOS 12 (Still alive)
Tulsa: 20-10, RPI 53, SOS 58 (Still alive)
Michigan: 20-11, RPI 64, SOS 63 (Still alive)
Florida State: 19-13, RPI 77 SOS 84 (Already lost)
Georgia Tech: 19-14, RPI 65, SOS 20 (Already lost)
Houston: 22-8, RPI 72, SOS 134 (Still alive)
George Washington: 23-9, RPI 61, SOS 128 (Still alive)
BYU: 22-10, RPI 78, SOS 133 (Already lost)
Washington: 18-14, RPI 82, SOS 35 (Already lost)
Creighton: 18-14, RPI 98, SOS 89 (Already lost)
Princeton: 21-6, RPI 40, SOS 142 (Already lost)
Ohio State: 20-12, RPI 71, SOS 42 (Still Alive)
Kansas State: 17-16, RPI 83, SOS 19 (Already lost)
Stanford: 14-15, RPI 80, SOS 2 (Already lost)
Clemson: 17-14, RPI 124, SOS 111 (Already lost)
Georgia: 18-12, RPI 68, SOS 28 (Still Alive)
LSU: 18-13, RPI 91, SOS 75 (Still Alive)
Virginia Tech: 19-14, RPI 85, SOS 48 (Already lost)
Alabama:18-13, RPI 63, SOS 26 (Still alive)
Ole Miss: 20-12, RPI 94, SOS 166 (Already lost)
Marquette: 20-13, RPI 107, SOS 123 (Already lost)
On the Bubble:
Arizona State: 15-17, RPI 97, SOS 17 (Already lost)
Arkansas: 16-16, RPI 125, SOS 61 (Already lost)
Boise State: 18-12, RPI 99, SOS 122 (Already lost)
Davidson: 18-11, RPI 62, SOS 68 (Still alive)
Evansville:24-9, RPI 92, SOS 199 (Already lost)
Fresno State: 21-9, RPI 79, SOS 161 (Still alive)
Georgetown:15-18, RPI 104, SOS 14 (Already lost)
IPFW: 22-9, RPI 73, SOS 172 (Already lost)
Long Beach State: 17-13, RPI 89, SOS 92 (Still Alive)
Memphis: 17-14, RPI 146, SOS 106 (Still alive)
Mississippi State: 14-17, RPI 148, SOS 60 (Already lost)
Northwestern: 20-12, RPI 111, SOS 147 (Already lost)
North Carolina State: 16-17, RPI 115, SOS 47 (Already lost)
Rhode Island: 17-15 RPI 112, SOS 79 (Already lost)
Richmond: 16-15, RPI 114, SOS 76 (Still alive)
Texas A&M-CC: 22-6, RPI 87, SOS 284 (Still alive)
UC Irvine: 23-8, RPI 70, SOS 170 (Still alive)
UCLA: 15-17, RPI 100, SOS 18 (Already lost)
UC Santa Barbara: 17-12, RPI 96, SOS 120 (Still alive)
William & Mary 18-11, RPI 67, SOS 64 (Already lost)
Its only one site, but it currently has us as the very last at large bid. With a bunch of auto-bids still left up for grabs, and some teams on the bubble still alive in their conference tournies, I'm not super confident that we will make the NIT. Please some of the teams on the bubble I think have better resumes than we do (Davidson come to mind). I think we are better than a lot of teams in ahead of us (how the hell are Stanford and Clemson considered better candidates?) but our computer numbers aren't great.
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 10:02:03 AM
I'm fairly certain that not even Tanned Tommy would want to hang that banner from the rafters...
NIT is the lowest we should sink.
It is depressing to think how we are rationalizing what three years ago would have triggered Scoop Armageddon.
I hope the Administration is taking stock because this program is not meeting the mark.
I'm praying for teal.
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 10:02:03 AM
I'm fairly certain that not even Tanned Tommy would want to hang that banner from the rafters...
NIT is the lowest we should sink.
It is depressing to think how we are rationalizing what three years ago would have triggered Scoop Armageddon.
I hope the Administration is taking stock because this program is not meeting the mark.
Meaning what, Crash?
Seriously, I'm not sure what you mean by this. That Wojo should be in trouble already, just months after getting an extension from the very administration that should be taking stock?
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 10:02:03 AM
I'm fairly certain that not even Tanned Tommy would want to hang that banner from the rafters...
NIT is the lowest we should sink.
It is depressing to think how we are rationalizing what three years ago would have triggered Scoop Armageddon.
I hope the Administration is taking stock because this program is not meeting the mark.
Agree with your comments. What concerns me more is next season will be a real crapshoot if HE leaves. I laugh at posters who think the team will be fine without him. Wojo needs to recruit some players who can slug it out in the paint. we get manhandled in too many BE games.
I'm borrowing Spillproof's list of games with #1 seeds and adding games featuring other NIT contenders:
Stephen F. Austin vs. Houston Baptist (Autobid)
Hampton vs. Savannah State (Autobid)
Akron vs. Bowling Green (Autobid)
Weber State vs. North Dakota (Autobid)
New Mexico State vs. UMKC (Autobid)
San Diego State vs. Nevada (Autobid)
Hawaii vs. UC Santa Barbara (Autobid vs. potential at large)
Texas Southern vs. Southern University (Autobid)
Long Beach State vs. UC Irvine (Two potential at larges, probably want Long Beach State to win)
Texas A&M-CC vs. Sam Houston State (Potential at large)
Richmond vs. Dayton (potential at large)
Memphis vs. Tulsa (potential at large)
Fresno State vs. Colorado State (potential at large)
Davidson vs. St. Bonaventure (potential at large)
Alabama vs. Kentucky (potential at large)
LSU vs. Tennessee (potential at large)
Georgia vs. South Carolina (potential at large)
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 10:02:03 AM
I'm fairly certain that not even Tanned Tommy would want to hang that banner from the rafters...
NIT is the lowest we should sink.
It is depressing to think how we are rationalizing what three years ago would have triggered Scoop Armageddon.
I hope the Administration is taking stock because this program is not meeting the mark.
We aren't all that good this year. If we don't get into the NIT, we have no complaint. It will be because we didn't earn it. I would not get to excited about entering or winning the Las Vegas 16.
OTOH, we are young and games in a tournament setting can only help our future growth, which is what we're after. So, if the kids want to play and we think the experience is worth it, then go ahead and play. It's not a pride thing. It's a get better thing.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 11, 2016, 10:11:29 AM
Agree with your comments. What concerns me more is next season will be a real crapshoot if HE leaves. I laugh at posters who think the team will be fine without him. Wojo needs to recruit some players who can slug it out in the paint. we get manhandled in too many BE games.
Do the math.
Hank's production this season < Rowsey + Hauser + Howard (potentially) + Hank's replacement (potentially) + improvement by Fischer + improvement by Haanif + improvement by Duane + improvement by JJJ + improvement by Sandy + improvement by Traci +improvement by Wally + improvement by Sacar + improvement by Heldt + improvement by coaching staff.
Henry is a great player. He is not better than everyone else combined. Its funny because it often seems like people complain about Henry's shortcomings this season but talk about how we will never survive without him next season.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 11, 2016, 10:23:02 AM
Henry is a great player. He is not better than everyone else combined. Its funny because it often seems like people complain about Henry's shortcomings this season but talk about how we will never survive without him next season.
Because Henry rebounds and nobody else we have is any good at that. I don't know about anyone else, but that is 90% of my concern about not having him next year. We're a poor defensive team and a poor rebounding team now. While Henry wasn't much of a defender, at least he ended possessions by grabbing rebounds on opponents misses. Imagine our current shoddy defense with a lot more put backs against us. If we find a rebounding PF I think we can be better next year.
Quote from: 79Warrior on March 11, 2016, 10:11:29 AM
I laugh at posters who think the team will be fine without him.
And I laugh at those who think we won't. So here we are, just laughing at each other. People who pass by are going to think we're having a really good time.
Quote from: MU82 on March 11, 2016, 10:11:20 AM
Meaning what, Crash?
Seriously, I'm not sure what you mean by this. That Wojo should be in trouble already, just months after getting an extension from the very administration that should be taking stock?
Mike
I am not suggesting that Wojo get fired. Far from it. But Marquette needs to take stock of the performance of its most valuable asset. Like it or not, Marquette's national reputation is largely predicated on the performance of its men's basketball team.
A lack of success on the hardwood is a very real issue for the strategic aims of the institution.
If this was GE Capital Indonesia the Country Director wouldn't get fired straight away but he also wouldn't last through 8 quarters of subpar performance.
Marquette invests heavily in the Men's Basketball Program because it has paid significant returns. Everyone accepts cyclical dips but I think it is fair to ask if we are witnessing an aberration or a trend.
If we take a hard look at where we are at as a program the future portends more of the same:
- We lose our best player
- We likely lose upper classman talent this off season
- We continue to have a roster with gaping skills deficits
- We remain inexperienced
- Our fan base is defecting in droves
- We can't even get on FS1 consistently
If this was a strategic business unit of GE Capital I guarantee that CT would be asking some tough questions because the shareholders have expectations of performance. I see no reason why Marquette should not have the same standards of excellence.
Personally, I don't see things getting better. Next year could be even worse. I think it is fair for the University to ask current management to stop at the Six Sigma Tollgate.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 11, 2016, 10:23:02 AM
Do the math.
Hank's production this season < Rowsey + Hauser + Howard (potentially) + Hank's replacement (potentially) + improvement by Fischer + improvement by Haanif + improvement by Duane + improvement by JJJ + improvement by Sandy + improvement by Traci +improvement by Wally + improvement by Sacar + improvement by Heldt + improvement by coaching staff.
Henry is a great player. He is not better than everyone else combined. Its funny because it often seems like people complain about Henry's shortcomings this season but talk about how we will never survive without him next season.
You can pretty easily quantify Henry's impact and see how much we will miss him. Sure, others will step up but we have no idea how much those players will improve, if at all. Did Duane, Sandy and Luke take a huge step forward this year? If anything they stayed about the same or regressed. Not to mention that none of those players have anywhere near the same skill set Henry.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 11, 2016, 10:06:17 AM
I'm praying for teal.
Aggie
No teal intended (a convention I have never understood, by the way)
Marquette relies heavily on its basketball program far more than TAMU does its football. It is fair for the University to level set.
Personally, I am not optimistic for next year - in fact, I predict that we have an even more difficult season.
Marquette alums expect to eat at Morton's. For three years now we have been taken to Outback. Outback calls itself a steak house but we know what Morton's calls steak.
Its so sad that we are hoping to make the NIT. And the number of posts with excuses that we are ok, getting better and blind hope that it will get significantly better is just as sad.
Can we add St. Louis to the Big East so we can hopefully get 2 more wins per year and feel better about making the NIT? Just kidding but right now we are closer to becoming DePaul and St. Johns than Villanova and Xavier and I don't see it being much different next year.
"The only thing worse than going to the NIT is going to the NIT and actually trying to win games." - a group of UK fans I was sitting close to at a bar a few years ago. The funny thing was that UL fans were in agreement. First and last time fans from those schools ever agreed on something.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 11, 2016, 10:23:02 AM
Do the math.
Hank's production this season < Rowsey + Hauser + Howard (potentially) + Hank's replacement (potentially) + improvement by Fischer + improvement by Haanif + improvement by Duane + improvement by JJJ + improvement by Sandy + improvement by Traci +improvement by Wally + improvement by Sacar + improvement by Heldt + improvement by coaching staff.
Henry is a great player. He is not better than everyone else combined. Its funny because it often seems like people complain about Henry's shortcomings this season but talk about how we will never survive without him next season.
I'm praying for teal.
Because your syllogism would make Fr Davitt wince.
We are losing Henry Ellenson. We will likely lose more. We are already in a deep deficit. IF everything you posit comes true we MIGHT be better but you can't believe that all of those things will happen.
Fact is, Henry is better than everyone else combined. And he is leaving.
Next year will be worse than this one. People can dream for better but they need to be realistic.
Marquette has gone from being a ranked team that, as Vander Blue opined, made opponents wince when looking at the schedule to a mediocre sub-.500 program.
A man used to Morton's should not ever be satisfied with Outback.
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 10:32:11 AM
Mike
I am not suggesting that Wojo get fired. Far from it. But Marquette needs to take stock of the performance of its most valuable asset. Like it or not, Marquette's national reputation is largely predicated on the performance of its men's basketball team.
A lack of success on the hardwood is a very real issue for the strategic aims of the institution.
If this was GE Capital Indonesia the Country Director wouldn't get fired straight away but he also wouldn't last through 8 quarters of subpar performance.
Marquette invests heavily in the Men's Basketball Program because it has paid significant returns. Everyone accepts cyclical dips but I think it is fair to ask if we are witnessing an aberration or a trend.
If we take a hard look at where we are at as a program the future portends more of the same:
- We lose our best player
- We likely lose upper classman talent this off season
- We continue to have a roster with gaping skills deficits
- We remain inexperienced
- Our fan base is defecting in droves
- We can't even get on FS1 consistently
If this was a strategic business unit of GE Capital I guarantee that CT would be asking some tough questions because the shareholders have expectations of performance. I see no reason why Marquette should not have the same standards of excellence.
Personally, I don't see things getting better. Next year could be even worse. I think it is fair for the University to ask current management to stop at the Six Sigma Tollgate.
What upper classmen talent might we be losing?
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 10:32:11 AM
Mike
I am not suggesting that Wojo get fired. Far from it. But Marquette needs to take stock of the performance of its most valuable asset. Like it or not, Marquette's national reputation is largely predicated on the performance of its men's basketball team.
A lack of success on the hardwood is a very real issue for the strategic aims of the institution.
If this was GE Capital Indonesia the Country Director wouldn't get fired straight away but he also wouldn't last through 8 quarters of subpar performance.
Marquette invests heavily in the Men's Basketball Program because it has paid significant returns. Everyone accepts cyclical dips but I think it is fair to ask if we are witnessing an aberration or a trend.
If we take a hard look at where we are at as a program the future portends more of the same:
- We lose our best player
- We likely lose upper classman talent this off season
- We continue to have a roster with gaping skills deficits
- We remain inexperienced
- Our fan base is defecting in droves
- We can't even get on FS1 consistently
If this was a strategic business unit of GE Capital I guarantee that CT would be asking some tough questions because the shareholders have expectations of performance. I see no reason why Marquette should not have the same standards of excellence.
Personally, I don't see things getting better. Next year could be even worse. I think it is fair for the University to ask current management to stop at the Six Sigma Tollgate.
I won't comment on the comps to GE. Just silly.
I will comment on you stating that we'll lose upperclassmen experience. That narrows down to JJ and Luke. Luke already sat out a year - highly doubt he is going anywhere, and I would be beyond shocked to see JJ leave just as he's hitting his stride. So what exactly are you getting at here? Only logical transfer would be Sandy or Anim, and while I hope neither leaves, we're not exactly taking a step back if they do.
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 10:02:03 AM
I'm fairly certain that not even Tanned Tommy would want to hang that banner from the rafters...
NIT is the lowest we should sink.
It is depressing to think how we are rationalizing what three years ago would have triggered Scoop Armageddon.
I hope the Administration is taking stock because this program is not meeting the mark.
keefe, we won't actually hang anything but tell me that there wasn't ANY pride in winning Brooklyn this year. Our kids need to learn how to win.
And stop talking to me about 3 years ago. That was then and this is now.
Quote from: jsglow on March 11, 2016, 11:14:06 AM
keefe, we won't actually hang anything but tell me that there wasn't ANY pride in winning Brooklyn this year. Our kids need to learn how to win.
And stop talking to me about 3 years ago. That was then and this is now.
I love the fact that we won Brooklyn. That was a great moment which, unfortunately, we were not able leverage into continued, consistent success throughout the year.
As for participating in either the CBI or the Vegas Dirty Dozen I think we need to remain above these for reasons of brand equity.
Let's go home, lick our wounds, and see what happens with our roster. We are probably losing a lot of talent. The key will be in how Wojo replaces whatever it is we lose.
Frankly, I am not happy with where this program is at.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 11, 2016, 10:23:02 AM
Do the math.
Hank's production this season < Rowsey + Hauser + Howard (potentially) + Hank's replacement (potentially) + improvement by Fischer + improvement by Haanif + improvement by Duane + improvement by JJJ + improvement by Sandy + improvement by Traci +improvement by Wally + improvement by Sacar + improvement by Heldt + improvement by coaching staff.
Henry is a great player. He is not better than everyone else combined. Its funny because it often seems like people complain about Henry's shortcomings this season but talk about how we will never survive without him next season.
Good luck with your logic. You sound like Donald Trump telling us everything is going to be great again as soon as he gets elected. How much did SC improve from last year? How much did Duane improve from last year? JJJ did improve. So, if were are fortunate, maybe half of the guys you mention improve. Rowsey has yet to play a game for us so I have no idea how to quantify him and Hauser is a freshman. Still not going to be enough and we will be much smaller and get just as abused by the other BE teams under the basket.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 11, 2016, 09:47:10 AM
Pretty sure Oregon State won the CBI last year.
OSU won it in 2009. They declined a bid last year, and Loyola Chicago won it.
This is really depressing. People here truly believe that one player makes this entire program and he is unreplaceable. Hank is damn good. Best player we have. He is not unreplaceable.
It's all about the optics of trajectory. Yes, who cares about the NIT, but it's a heck of a lot better than where we were last year at this time. Miss the NIT and the step forward doesn't look nearly as big.
The only reason to be optimistic for next year is if you think the coaching will get better. This year's talent should have been NCAA bubble, full stop. When all is said and done three or four of this year's team will probably have laced up in the association. To not be sweating in out on selection Sunday (at worst) with that talent means the coaching underperformed. NIT is just a little bit of underperformance from NCAA bubble (i.e. my B- grade), but missing the NIT is a major underperformance from potential.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 11, 2016, 12:10:01 PM
This is really depressing. People here truly believe that one player makes this entire program and he is unreplaceable. Hank is damn good. Best player we have. He is not unreplaceable.
Agree he is not unreplaceable. But we don't have a replacement. A mish-mash of shooting guards trying to play the 4 is not a replacement.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 11, 2016, 08:40:13 AM
In the latest NIT bracketology, Marquette is barely hanging on. And that was before the UAB loss. Simply put, MU needs the #1 seeds to win their tournaments and hope that the selection committee wants the marquee value that a guy like Henry can bring.
Then they will put us on the road to a place like Valpo because they'd draw the crowd.
I think you hit on a good reason why we probably make it - they want all of the "star power" they can get.
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 11:33:58 AM
We are probably losing a lot of talent. The key will be in how Wojo replaces whatever it is we lose.
You have said this a few times in addition to someone referencing a grad transfer. Is there a thought that we lose Luke, DU or JJJ?
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 11, 2016, 12:14:49 PM
You have said this a few times in addition to someone referencing a grad transfer. Is there a thought that we lose Luke, DU or JJJ?
Luke won't transfer.
Duane won't transfer down to a mid-major.
JJJ has worked hard to be in a position to be one of the go-to-guys next year.
Quote from: mufanatic on March 11, 2016, 10:48:03 AM
Its so sad that we are hoping to make the NIT. And the number of posts with excuses that we are ok, getting better and blind hope that it will get significantly better is just as sad.
Can we add St. Louis to the Big East so we can hopefully get 2 more wins per year and feel better about making the NIT? Just kidding but right now we are closer to becoming DePaul and St. Johns than Villanova and Xavier and I don't see it being much different next year.
I don't think anyone is happy with this season but take a step back and look at the progress. Wojo inherited a crap roster that was a last place team in a power conference. Four of the seven scholarship players on that roster from last year are gone. We had FOUR SCHOLARSHIP PLAYERS RETURNING FROM A TERRIBLE TEAM. Enter one of the youngest teams in the country. What did they do? Added 7 wins overall and 4 conference wins. We went from one of the worst power conference teams in the country to a possible NIT team in one year. We were 4-14 in the Big East last year. The Big East got better. We went 8-10. In one year. With 6 new players on the roster.
The entitlement on this board is unbelievable. Is it frustrating to maybe miss any postseason play for the 3rd consecutive year? Hell yeah it's frustrating. But we went from terrible to average in one year. The only other team to do that, oddly, was Virginia Tech. It's irritating given that we were an E8 team 4 seasons ago and coming off of a run of sustained success, but we're clearly back on the upswing. Maybe Wojo ends up not working out in the end but the program is obviously trending back in the right direction. It doesn't happen overnight.
For fucks sake
Quote from: brandx on March 11, 2016, 12:37:30 PM
Luke won't transfer.
Duane won't transfer down to a mid-major.
JJJ has worked hard to be in a position to be one of the go-to-guys next year.
Sandy, Wally and Anim could all leave.
For all the bashing that Sandy receives on here, he had a good start to the year and was our best 3 point shooter until his game became completely unglued and now has no confidence whatsoever. Losing any or all 3 will only allow for more "we are young/lack of experience" excuses to be used when we struggle next year as we bring in more freshmen.
Quote from: mufanatic on March 11, 2016, 12:48:15 PM
Sandy, Wally and Anim could all leave.
For all the bashing that Sandy receives on here, he had a good start to the year and was our best 3 point shooter until his game became completely unglued and now has no confidence whatsoever. Losing any or all 3 will only allow for more "we are young/lack of experience" excuses to be used when we struggle next year as we bring in more freshmen.
First, we aren't going to lose all three. I would be surprised if we lose more than one.
Second, next year we will be more experienced. Luke and JJJ will be seniors. Duane, Sandy and Rowsey will be juniors. Haanif and Carter will be sophomores.
And really stop with the "experience is just an excuse" mantra. It is a fact. It is important.
Quote from: drewm88 on March 11, 2016, 12:05:45 PM
OSU won it in 2009. They declined a bid last year, and Loyola Chicago won it.
Ahh shows how much I pay attention to the CBI. Thanks for the correction.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 11, 2016, 10:28:40 AM
Because Henry rebounds and nobody else we have is any good at that. I don't know about anyone else, but that is 90% of my concern about not having him next year. We're a poor defensive team and a poor rebounding team now. While Henry wasn't much of a defender, at least he ended possessions by grabbing rebounds on opponents misses. Imagine our current shoddy defense with a lot more put backs against us. If we find a rebounding PF I think we can be better next year.
Henry does not rebound against physical teams. Look at last games against Villanova and Xavier. That is my only hope that Henry stays. He goes to combine and NBA scouts tell him he has not demonstrated he can handle physical players, so he returns since his draft stock is lower than expected.
Quote from: brandx on March 11, 2016, 12:37:30 PM
Luke won't transfer.
Duane won't transfer down to a mid-major.
JJJ has worked hard to be in a position to be one of the go-to-guys next year.
Duane would also burn a year of eligibility. If he transfers, it'll be after next year if he is in a position to be a grad transfer. Duane is going nowhere. Luke and JJ are going nowhere.
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on March 11, 2016, 12:44:13 PM
I don't think anyone is happy with this season but take a step back and look at the progress. Wojo inherited a crap roster that was a last place team in a power conference. Four of the seven scholarship players on that roster from last year are gone. We had FOUR SCHOLARSHIP PLAYERS RETURNING FROM A TERRIBLE TEAM. Enter one of the youngest teams in the country. What did they do? Added 7 wins overall and 4 conference wins. We went from one of the worst power conference teams in the country to a possible NIT team in one year. We were 4-14 in the Big East last year. The Big East got better. We went 8-10. In one year. With 6 new players on the roster.
The entitlement on this board is unbelievable. Is it frustrating to maybe miss any postseason play for the 3rd consecutive year? Hell yeah it's frustrating. But we went from terrible to average in one year. The only other team to do that, oddly, was Virginia Tech. It's irritating given that we were an E8 team 4 seasons ago and coming off of a run of sustained success, but we're clearly back on the upswing. Maybe Wojo ends up not working out in the end but the program is obviously trending back in the right direction. It doesn't happen overnight.
For unnatural carnal knowledges sake
+1
Hard to get wood over anythin' less than the Tourney for those of us who experienced the Al years. And yes, we are capable of woodies, just so you know. None da less, I'm figurin' on a bid to da NIT. Hopin' Wojo gets 'em up enough to consummate a couple wins, ai na?
I want a post season bid of some kind, because I love watching our young players play. It is also a long time to our first game next season and I hate the offseason, especially once recruiting is done. I do think we have a chance to make the NIT, but not based on our RPI. It is based on whether the NIT values having Big East teams in their tournament. If that is important for their image than MU and Creighton are in the NIT. If it is more important to pick the best remaining teams than Creighton & MU will not get a bid. MU has another plus in that the NIT might want Henry, in the hope he is playing in their final 4. I think the Vegas 16 is more likely and I will be very tempted to go to Vegas. Vegas 16 would be more fun than NIT, but NIT could save me a lot of money.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 11, 2016, 12:53:46 PM
Ahh shows how much I pay attention to the CBI. Thanks for the correction.
Roughly as much attention as it deserves.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 11, 2016, 12:10:01 PM
This is really depressing. People here truly believe that one player makes this entire program and he is unreplaceable. Hank is damn good. Best player we have. He is not unreplaceable.
I am not saying he makes the entire program not that he is irreplaceable. But, unless we get another PF this team is not going to make the strides upward that some people think. We are too small and Luke is a foul fest. Everyone will have to be much improved for this team to get to the Top 4 in the BE.
Quote from: drewm88 on March 11, 2016, 01:11:05 PM
Roughly as much attention as it deserves.
Loyola Chicago won the CBI last year. The 2015 CBI "Final Four" was Loyola, Louisiana-Monroe, Seattle U, and Vermont. That tells you everything you need to know.
CBI. Cupcake Bowl
Gracias,no
Hopefully we are invited to the NIT. There are going to be some quality teams in the field and if we do well it will be a benefit to the program. The other events have more downside than upside in my view and I think we should respectfully decline those. Let the guys finish up the academic year strong and get an early start on the weights and skills improvement.
What frustrates me the most about Hank is the same statistic he leads this team in: rebounding.
He SHOULD BE a double-double guy.
But he enjoys shooting the .288 3PT% three-pointer so much, it was sad to see an MU team struggle on the glass and lose games because their best rebounder is favoring the arc over the 5 footer.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on March 11, 2016, 06:27:26 PM
What frustrates me the most about Hank is the same statistic he leads this team in: rebounding.
He SHOULD BE a double-double guy.
But he enjoys shooting the .288 3PT% three-pointer so much, it was sad to see an MU team struggle on the glass and lose games because their best rebounder is favoring the arc over the 5 footer.
He does shoot the three too much, but he is shooting 35.9% (14/39) from beyond the arc in the past 13 games. He's also shooting slightly fewer threes during that time (3.0, previously 3.3 per game).
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 10:32:11 AM
I am not suggesting that Wojo get fired. Far from it. But Marquette needs to take stock of the performance of its most valuable asset. Like it or not, Marquette's national reputation is largely predicated on the performance of its men's basketball team.
A lack of success on the hardwood is a very real issue for the strategic aims of the institution.
If this was GE Capital Indonesia the Country Director wouldn't get fired straight away but he also wouldn't last through 8 quarters of subpar performance.
Marquette invests heavily in the Men's Basketball Program because it has paid significant returns. Everyone accepts cyclical dips but I think it is fair to ask if we are witnessing an aberration or a trend.
If we take a hard look at where we are at as a program the future portends more of the same:
- We lose our best player
- We likely lose upper classman talent this off season
- We continue to have a roster with gaping skills deficits
- We remain inexperienced
- Our fan base is defecting in droves
- We can't even get on FS1 consistently
If this was a strategic business unit of GE Capital I guarantee that CT would be asking some tough questions because the shareholders have expectations of performance. I see no reason why Marquette should not have the same standards of excellence.
Personally, I don't see things getting better. Next year could be even worse. I think it is fair for the University to ask current management to stop at the Six Sigma Tollgate.
Even if I agree with everything here -- and I don't, but I agree with much of it -- there isn't anything I can do about it.
I have learned over the years to stop worrying about crap I can't control. I also have learned over the years to not get any kind of self-worth from the doings of a college basketball team.
I was proud to say I went to Marquette even during the Dukiet years. Did I puff out my chest a little more in 2003 and 2013? Yes I did. But I still knew it was only basketball, not real life.
So I'll let others take "a hard look" at this stuff. I just know that sports are cyclical. We'll be good again. And then almost surely bad again after that.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 11, 2016, 10:16:20 AM
I'm borrowing Spillproof's list of games with #1 seeds and adding games featuring other NIT contenders:
Stephen F. Austin vs. Houston Baptist (Autobid)
Hampton vs. Savannah State (Autobid)
Akron vs. Bowling Green (Autobid)
Weber State vs. North Dakota (Autobid)
New Mexico State vs. UMKC (Autobid)
San Diego State vs. Nevada (Autobid)
Hawaii vs. UC Santa Barbara (Autobid vs. potential at large)
Texas Southern vs. Southern University (Autobid)
Long Beach State vs. UC Irvine (Two potential at larges, probably want Long Beach State to win)
Texas A&M-CC vs. Sam Houston State (Potential at large)
Richmond vs. Dayton (potential at large)
Memphis vs. Tulsa (potential at large)
Fresno State vs. Colorado State (potential at large)
Davidson vs. St. Bonaventure (potential at large)
Alabama vs. Kentucky (potential at large)
LSU vs. Tennessee (potential at large)
Georgia vs. South Carolina (potential at large)
Good NewsStephen F. Austin kills Houston Baptist
Hampton destroys Savannah State
Akron beats Bowling Green
Weber State sneaks past North Dakota in OT
New Mexico State wins over UMKC
San Diego State defeats Nevada
Hawaii routs UC Santa Barbara
Long Beach State over UC Irvine
Richmond bows out to Dayton
Alabama embarrassed by Kentucky
Bad NewsTexas Southern upset by Southern (Why did Big Chris let us down Jay Bee?) Another spot gone
Texas A&M-CC snuck past Sam Houston State
Memphis destroys Tulsa
Fresno State gets past Colorado State
Davidson beats St. Bonaventure in OT (might push them past us)
LSU womps Tennessee
Georgia upsets South Carolina
The autobids did well tonight. 7/8 of them advanced. The other NIT bubble teams unfortunately did well tonight. Davidson beating St. Bonaventure's might push them past us, and LSU/Georgia winning guarantees that they won't fall behind us.
Tomorrow's games with NIT implications:
Stephen F. Austin vs. Texas A&M-CC (Autobid vs. Potential At Large
Hampton vs. South Carolina State (Autobid)
Akron vs. Buffalo (Autobid)
Weber State vs. Montana (Autobid)
New Mexico State vs. CSU Bakersfield (Autobid)
San Diego State vs. Fresno State (Autobid vs. Potential At Large)
Hawaii vs. Long Beach State (Autobid vs. Potential At Large)
Memphis vs. Tulane (Potential At Large)
Davidson vs. VCU (Potential At Large)
LSU vs. Texas A&M (Potential At Large)
Georgia vs. Kentucky (Potential At Large)
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 11, 2016, 12:57:55 PM
+1
The Big East was also a lot better this year than last.
Quote from: bilsu on March 11, 2016, 12:55:23 PM
Henry does not rebound against physical teams.
You are nearly reaching Ners levels in pounding a dead (and inaccurate) horse.
Quote from: bilsu on March 11, 2016, 12:55:23 PM
Henry does not rebound against physical teams. Look at last games against Villanova and Xavier. That is my only hope that Henry stays. He goes to combine and NBA scouts tell him he has not demonstrated he can handle physical players, so he returns since his draft stock is lower than expected.
In the four regular season games v. X and Nova, he averaged 7.0 rebounds. If he only played those four games, he would have still been Marquette's rebounding leader and tied for seventh in the Big East.
Are we done with this stupid talking point now?
If MU makes the NIT but has to play TX Southern I will cry.
It's hard for me to square some of the depressing comments with the few posters that at the beginning of the season predicted 20 or more Wins. Please don't play the "If Game", things happened the way they happened. (No Injuries). For me I'm enjoying my sandwich and hoping for a better menu next year.
Oh, if those predicted 20 win posters would like to raise their hand, please do.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 12, 2016, 08:33:53 AM
If MU makes the NIT but has to play TX Southern I will cry.
Big Chris NBA vs Big Hank NBA?
Quote from: Loose Cannon on March 12, 2016, 09:47:32 AM
It's hard for me to square some of the depressing comments with the few posters that at the beginning of the season predicted 20 or more Wins. Please don't play the "If Game", things happened the way they happened. (No Injuries). For me I'm enjoying my sandwich and hoping for a better menu next year.
Oh, if those predicted 20 win posters would like to raise their hand, please do.
OK, I kinda thought they would win 20+ and make the NCAA tournament. I plead guilty and tell the world I see things with blue and gold Warrior glasses.
Objectively, we had too many freshmen and still lacked depth. Anim did not come along as fast as I suspected he would and for most of the season we were seven or eight deep. The Xavier game exposed the fact we were winded, especially when St. john's pressed us harder than they should have.
Bad news was Henry was not Jabari Parker. Bad news was our freshmen were freshmen and made a lot of mistakes that I blindly thought they would not make. The good news is we probably found ourselves a point guard in Traci Carter. Hanni looks like the real thing and between Hanni and JjJ, we appear to have a strong offensive basis for next year.
To be objective, we're improving and I feel pretty good that we should be a tournament team next year. Should Henry come back, looooook out! Wojo is growing with a team that's young and if his recruiting prowess continues, we're well set.
As mentioned Henry doesn't rebound against physical teams. Luke is becoming a non-factor.
SO, JUST GET ME 2 OR 3 BIGS WHO CAN REBOUND, REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY STARS BEHIND
THEIR NAME. Don't know where but find them.Other teams do.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on March 12, 2016, 11:36:58 AM
As mentioned Henry doesn't rebound against physical teams.
And, as mentioned, that just isn't true.
The guy's the leading rebounder in the BE and his accomplishment is diminished by his own fan base. Very, very strange.
Oh by the way, Angel Delgado, finished #2 to Henry in BE rebounding. He only got 27 rebounds v. X and Nova in the four BE conference games he played them. So he did worse than Henry did against those teams.
Do you think the Seton Hall fanbase is lamenting that only gets easy rebounds?
One other stat. In the two games that Delgado and Ellenson played against one another, they both totaled 24 rebounds. So in games that Henry played against the second leading rebounder in the BE, he averaged 12 rpg. As much as Delgado.
So Earl and bilsu, do you need me to go on?
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 10:40:06 AM
Aggie
No teal intended (a convention I have never understood, by the way)
Marquette relies heavily on its basketball program far more than TAMU does its football. It is fair for the University to level set.
Personally, I am not optimistic for next year - in fact, I predict that we have an even more difficult season.
Marquette alums expect to eat at Morton's. For three years now we have been taken to Outback. Outback calls itself a steak house but we know what Morton's calls steak.
We arent even eating at outback. We are currently eating steaks at george webbs
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on March 11, 2016, 12:44:13 PM
I don't think anyone is happy with this season but take a step back and look at the progress. Wojo inherited a crap roster that was a last place team in a power conference. Four of the seven scholarship players on that roster from last year are gone. We had FOUR SCHOLARSHIP PLAYERS RETURNING FROM A TERRIBLE TEAM. Enter one of the youngest teams in the country. What did they do? Added 7 wins overall and 4 conference wins. We went from one of the worst power conference teams in the country to a possible NIT team in one year. We were 4-14 in the Big East last year. The Big East got better. We went 8-10. In one year. With 6 new players on the roster.
The entitlement on this board is unbelievable. Is it frustrating to maybe miss any postseason play for the 3rd consecutive year? Hell yeah it's frustrating. But we went from terrible to average in one year. The only other team to do that, oddly, was Virginia Tech. It's irritating given that we were an E8 team 4 seasons ago and coming off of a run of sustained success, but we're clearly back on the upswing. Maybe Wojo ends up not working out in the end but the program is obviously trending back in the right direction. It doesn't happen overnight.
For unnatural carnal knowledges sake
It happened over night for bucky. They lost 2 best players from last year" started season off by losing to WIU UWM Marq Gtown all non ncaa teams. Than literally overnight coach quits and they get way better with freshman stud and are in tourney. O yea a rookie head coach to boot
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 12, 2016, 11:39:10 AM
And, as mentioned, that just isn't true.
The guy's the leading rebounder in the BE and his accomplishment is diminished by his own fan base. Very, very strange.
these are the people that believe pointing out Henry flaws will make him stay
Quote from: Earl Tatum on March 12, 2016, 11:36:58 AM
As mentioned Henry doesn't rebound against physical teams. Luke is becoming a non-factor.
SO, JUST GET ME 2 OR 3 BIGS WHO CAN REBOUND, REGARDLESS OF HOW MANY STARS BEHIND
THEIR NAME. Don't know where but find them.Other teams do.
I disagree with the first part of your analysis.
I agree with the second bolded part Need some Michigan State,Cincinnati, Xavier , Seton Hall type bigs. 6-8 235 types
I predicted 22 I think? Could have easily gotten it with the Belmont, DePaul, creighton loses. But I thought this year was a success. Problem is we lost games we should have won.
I did predict the NCAA but NIT is a good take!
This season was a success!
Quote from: fjm on March 12, 2016, 12:46:07 PM
This season was a success!
We'll find out tomorrow.
Quote from: fjm on March 12, 2016, 12:46:07 PM
I predicted 22 I think? Could have easily gotten it with the Belmont, DePaul, creighton loses. But I thought this year was a success. Problem is we lost games we should have won.
I did predict the NCAA but NIT is a good take!
This season was a success!
Multiple projections now have us out of the NIT. D'oh!
Quote from: fjm on March 12, 2016, 12:46:07 PM
I predicted 22 I think? Could have easily gotten it with the Belmont, DePaul, creighton loses. But I thought this year was a success. Problem is we lost games we should have won.
I did predict the NCAA but NIT is a good take!
This season was a success!
The increasing number of posts like this on this board make me truly sad. Does anyone even care that MU is falling completely off the map in the college basketball landscape?
I was at most of the games this year and the general feeling of apathy among the fan base (for the ones that did show up) is worrisome to say the least. Most are content with years like this. That's the worst part.
Quote from: fjm on March 12, 2016, 12:46:07 PM
I predicted 22 I think? Could have easily gotten it with the Belmont, DePaul, creighton loses. But I thought this year was a success. Problem is we lost games we should have won.
I did predict the NCAA but NIT is a good take!
This season was a success!
We won more games we should have lost than the alternative.
Quote from: AirPunch on March 12, 2016, 01:59:44 PM
The increasing number of posts like this on this board make me truly sad. Does anyone even care that MU is falling completely off the map in the college basketball landscape?
I was at most of the games this year and the general feeling of apathy among the fan base (for the ones that did show up) is worrisome to say the least. Most are content with years like this. That's the worst part.
Would you feel better if we ranted and raved about it?
Quote from: AirPunch on March 12, 2016, 01:59:44 PM
The increasing number of posts like this on this board make me truly sad. Does anyone even care that MU is falling completely off the map in the college basketball landscape?
I was at most of the games this year and the general feeling of apathy among the fan base (for the ones that did show up) is worrisome to say the least. Most are content with years like this. That's the worst part.
I absolutely do care that it's been a rough 3 years.
But does anyone not realize that rebuilding a team is tough? We had multiple mid season transfers out last year. We brought in a great class this year. People seem to forget that even Kentucky, Mich state etc... Can have great freshman classes but still not be successful.
The key is having those freshman become sophomores... Then they become juniors (and surprise! The class below them is now sophomores!!) and so on and so forth... That's how you build a great team.
Am I the only one that remembers Kentucky's amazing freshman class a few years back!? Yeah the one that barely made the NIT and then lost in the first or second round? Now some of those fresh are juniors and seniors and they have great freshmen also, but they also have great upper class support.
This is an MU team that was decimated when Buzz left. Wojo brought in a great class. So maybe remember that it takes time, or don't. Just don't forget that the Badgers (who I hate) didn't have huge frosh classes that made their success, they built it up. So some dummies on here who are saying we are done, then fine think that way... Or maybe think about how the sausage is made, not just how it tastes at the end.
Just sick of the puss bags that are afraid of seeing how the sausage is made and just expect results.
Quote from: AirPunch on March 12, 2016, 01:59:44 PM
The increasing number of posts like this on this board make me truly sad. Does anyone even care that MU is falling completely off the map in the college basketball landscape?
I was at most of the games this year and the general feeling of apathy among the fan base (for the ones that did show up) is worrisome to say the least. Most are content with years like this. That's the worst part.
I'm certainly not content with it, but it's a process, and one that's headed in the right direction. Wojo needs to continue to make strides, and I'm confident that he will.
Quote from: fjm on March 12, 2016, 02:17:30 PM
I absolutely do care that it's been a rough 3 years.
But does anyone not realize that rebuilding a team is tough? We had multiple mid season transfers out last year. We brought in a great class this year. People seem to forget that even Kentucky, Mich state etc... Can have great freshman classes but still not be successful.
The key is having those freshman become sophomores... Then they become juniors (and surprise! The class below them is now sophomores!!) and so on and so forth... That's how you build a great team.
Am I the only one that remembers Kentucky's amazing freshman class a few years back!? Yeah the one that barely made the NIT and then lost in the first or second round? Now some of those fresh are juniors and seniors and they have great freshmen also, but they also have great upper class support.
This is an MU team that was decimated when Buzz left. Wojo brought in a great class. So maybe remember that it takes time, or don't. Just don't forget that the Badgers (who I hate) didn't have huge frosh classes that made their success, they built it up. So some dummies on here who are saying we are done, then fine think that way... Or maybe think about how the sausage is made, not just how it tastes at the end.
Just sick of the puss bags that are afraid of seeing how the sausage is made and just expect results.
Nice post. I agree, sausages and all.
Latest bracket projections have us as "also considered" for the nit
Quote from: GWSwarrior on March 12, 2016, 05:17:48 PM
Latest bracket projections have us as "also considered" for the nit
On the outside looking in right now
http://bracketmatrix.com/nit
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 12, 2016, 05:29:38 PM
On the outside looking in right now
http://bracketmatrix.com/nit
There's three teams on that list that jump out to me...Temple...Lunardi has them as in the NCAAs right now even with their loss today. Michigan might be in the dance as well, and Memphis will be if they win the American championship, though I suppose that could knock Temple out. Same with Monmouth, they might be in the dance as well.
IF MU doesn't make the NIT, this will be 3 straight years of no postseason.
Also not sure how Houston would get in ahead of MU, let alone be a #2 seed. They have 3 top 50 wins, and a non con SOS worse than MU's.
Nebraska is opting out of the CBI and Vegas tourney, said the fact that they took an overseas trip last summer was part of the decision. Wonder if MU will feel the same way assuming we don't make the NIT?
Quote from: JTBMU7 on March 12, 2016, 05:53:29 PM
Wonder if MU will feel the same way assuming we don't make the NIT?
"NIT or bust", non è?
if not for anything else, i'd hate see henry go out with that 90-72 taste in his mouth. not to mention probably one of his worst games of the year-wait, you mean we still have a chance?? of henry staying one more for the gipper that is :'(
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 12, 2016, 11:47:34 AM
One other stat. In the two games that Delgado and Ellenson played against one another, they both totaled 24 rebounds. So in games that Henry played against the second leading rebounder in the BE, he averaged 12 rpg. As much as Delgado.
So Earl and bilsu, do you need me to go on?
I will be happy to respond to this. Henry gets some rebounds, because the rest of the players on MU's team are not good rebounders. You point out that in two games Delgado and Henry had the same amount of rebounds. However, if you would look at the box score Seton Hall in those two games out rebounded MU 89 to 64. Delgado got 26.97% of his teams rebounds and Henry got 37.5% of his teams rebounds. A clear indication that Delgado is surrounded by much better rebounders than Henry is. From day one I have been counting Henry's rebounds in games. The biggest problem he has is he is not able to play through contact. You easily notice it on his drives, because he usually does not finish if he is met with contact on the drive. This is contact that the refs do not even call fouls on. If you have been following his rebounding you would of notice that 90% of the time when he has two hands on a rebound and receives body contact from another player he loses the rebound. He gets rebounds by his great size and hands. He does not get rebounds by banging or jumping. I think if he would comeback next year with some added muscle and learn to play through contact he could put up numbers close to 25 pts 14 rbs a game, but right now even though he gets a lot of rebounds he is not a great rebounder.
Quote from: bilsu on March 12, 2016, 09:19:15 PM
I will be happy to respond to this. Henry gets some rebounds, because the rest of the players on MU's team are not good rebounders. You point out that in two games Delgado and Henry had the same amount of rebounds. However, if you would look at the box score Seton Hall in those two games out rebounded MU 89 to 64. Delgado got 26.97% of his teams rebounds and Henry got 37.5% of his teams rebounds. A clear indication that Delgado is surrounded by much better rebounders than Henry is. From day one I have been counting Henry's rebounds in games. The biggest problem he has is he is not able to play through contact. You easily notice it on his drives, because he usually does not finish if he is met with contact on the drive. This is contact that the refs do not even call fouls on. If you have been following his rebounding you would of notice that 90% of the time when he has two hands on a rebound and receives body contact from another player he loses the rebound. He gets rebounds by his great size and hands. He does not get rebounds by banging or jumping. I think if he would comeback next year with some added muscle and learn to play through contact he could put up numbers close to 25 pts 14 rbs a game, but right now even though he gets a lot of rebounds he is not a great rebounder.
90% huh?
That is one bullsh*t stat right there.
Quote from: bilsu on March 12, 2016, 09:19:15 PM
I will be happy to respond to this. Henry gets some rebounds, because the rest of the players on MU's team are not good rebounders. You point out that in two games Delgado and Henry had the same amount of rebounds. However, if you would look at the box score Seton Hall in those two games out rebounded MU 89 to 64. Delgado got 26.97% of his teams rebounds and Henry got 37.5% of his teams rebounds. A clear indication that Delgado is surrounded by much better rebounders than Henry is. From day one I have been counting Henry's rebounds in games. The biggest problem he has is he is not able to play through contact. You easily notice it on his drives, because he usually does not finish if he is met with contact on the drive. This is contact that the refs do not even call fouls on. If you have been following his rebounding you would of notice that 90% of the time when he has two hands on a rebound and receives body contact from another player he loses the rebound. He gets rebounds by his great size and hands. He does not get rebounds by banging or jumping. I think if he would comeback next year with some added muscle and learn to play through contact he could put up numbers close to 25 pts 14 rbs a game, but right now even though he gets a lot of rebounds he is not a great rebounder.
All right already! You win!
Henry is a horsecrap rebounder. He should be embarrassed to have been the conference's top rebounder and should renounce that statistic immediately.
Furthermore, NBA teams should take note of this horsecrap rebounding and tell Hank they will not draft him at all. Not even in the second round.
Once that happens, we will be stuck with him and his horsecrap rebounding for another season. Tough break for Marquette!
Quote from: bilsu on March 12, 2016, 09:19:15 PM
I will be happy to respond to this. Henry gets some rebounds, because the rest of the players on MU's team are not good rebounders. You point out that in two games Delgado and Henry had the same amount of rebounds. However, if you would look at the box score Seton Hall in those two games out rebounded MU 89 to 64. Delgado got 26.97% of his teams rebounds and Henry got 37.5% of his teams rebounds. A clear indication that Delgado is surrounded by much better rebounders than Henry is. From day one I have been counting Henry's rebounds in games. The biggest problem he has is he is not able to play through contact. You easily notice it on his drives, because he usually does not finish if he is met with contact on the drive. This is contact that the refs do not even call fouls on. If you have been following his rebounding you would of notice that 90% of the time when he has two hands on a rebound and receives body contact from another player he loses the rebound. He gets rebounds by his great size and hands. He does not get rebounds by banging or jumping. I think if he would comeback next year with some added muscle and learn to play through contact he could put up numbers close to 25 pts 14 rbs a game, but right now even though he gets a lot of rebounds he is not a great rebounder.
I think You are looking at Henry's board through a Don Kojis prism. Henry is not a Don Kojis style rebounder. I think he is a rebounding genius because he understands positioning very well. He has an incredible instinct for where the ball is going to go and positions himself to be there without competition. Dennis Rodman had a lot of theatrics, but at his core he was a student of the angles and would get a lot of the same type rebounds Henry gets.
The only thing I would say about Henrys boarding is that if he stayed closer to the basket on offense he would get a few more offensive rebounds. Which would also increase his scoring. He should really be a 20 12 kind of guy.
Is bilsu a bad person? Maybe
NMSU loses on a last second shot, another bid for the NIT is spoken for.
NYC Buckets and Dratings updated their NCAA and NIT brackets overnight.
Fork meet MU. See ya at Madness.
http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/
http://www.dratings.com/predictor/bracketology/
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 11, 2016, 12:55:31 PM
Duane would also burn a year of eligibility. If he transfers, it'll be after next year if he is in a position to be a grad transfer. Duane is going nowhere. Luke and JJ are going nowhere.
You realize that someone could transfer and not burn any eligibility because they can graduate this year,
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 10:02:03 AM
I'm fairly certain that not even Tanned Tommy would want to hang that banner from the rafters...
NIT is the lowest we should sink.
It is depressing to think how we are rationalizing what three years ago would have triggered Scoop Armageddon.
I hope the Administration is taking stock because this program is not meeting the mark.
All about trajectory
Quote from: keefe on March 11, 2016, 10:32:11 AM
Mike
I am not suggesting that Wojo get fired. Far from it. But Marquette needs to take stock of the performance of its most valuable asset. Like it or not, Marquette's national reputation is largely predicated on the performance of its men's basketball team.
A lack of success on the hardwood is a very real issue for the strategic aims of the institution.
If this was GE Capital Indonesia the Country Director wouldn't get fired straight away but he also wouldn't last through 8 quarters of subpar performance.
Marquette invests heavily in the Men's Basketball Program because it has paid significant returns. Everyone accepts cyclical dips but I think it is fair to ask if we are witnessing an aberration or a trend.
If we take a hard look at where we are at as a program the future portends more of the same:
- We lose our best player
- We likely lose upper classman talent this off season
- We continue to have a roster with gaping skills deficits
- We remain inexperienced
- Our fan base is defecting in droves
- We can't even get on FS1 consistently
If this was a strategic business unit of GE Capital I guarantee that CT would be asking some tough questions because the shareholders have expectations of performance. I see no reason why Marquette should not have the same standards of excellence.
Personally, I don't see things getting better. Next year could be even worse. I think it is fair for the University to ask current management to stop at the Six Sigma Tollgate.
And the solution? I'm being serious....the solution?
In the mean time, HE leaves (if he does), we will see the impact...plenty of teams over the years in pro and college have lost their best player and done fine...plenty have not.
Trajectory is key. Bumsteer leftus in a bad spot with non shooters and without a point guard. Is what it is. I'd love to hear a solution...
Quote from: MU82 on March 12, 2016, 10:28:18 PM
All right already! You win!
Henry is a horsecrap rebounder. He should be embarrassed to have been the conference's top rebounder and should renounce that statistic immediately.
Furthermore, NBA teams should take note of this horsecrap rebounding and tell Hank they will not draft him at all. Not even in the second round.
Once that happens, we will be stuck with him and his horsecrap rebounding for another season. Tough break for Marquette!
I do not think he is a horse crap rebounder. However, my point is that if he was a great rebounder he be averaging 14 game instead of 10. He is not fulfilling his potential as a rebounder. He gets the easy rebounds. Have you ever seen Henry sky above someone to get a rebound. Most of his rebounds are flat footed. He has great size and is very smart, so he gets a lot of rebounds. He is not an aggressive rebounder and therefore in my book should not be called a great rebounder.
Quote from: bilsu on March 13, 2016, 09:26:40 AM
I do not think he is a horse crap rebounder. However, my point is that if he was a great rebounder he be averaging 14 game instead of 10. He is not fulfilling his potential as a rebounder. He gets the easy rebounds. Have you ever seen Henry sky above someone to get a rebound. Most of his rebounds are flat footed. He has great size and is very smart, so he gets a lot of rebounds. He is not an aggressive rebounder and therefore in my book should not be called a great rebounder.
His issue is that he is not a good leaper as he has a limited vertical game. He relies more on his height and reach.
Quote from: Nukem2 on March 13, 2016, 09:37:44 AM
His issue is that he is not a good leaper as he has a limited vertical game. He relies more on his height and reach.
Which might be a problem in the next league where so many have his reach and height, but also can jump.
Mike Broeker tweet from last night:
"After L4 out; Top 100 RPI Ws by NIT at-large candidates - #mubb, Bama, LSU, LBSU, Va Tech - 7; FSU, Georgia, Houston - 6; Ga Tech, Wash - 5."
https://twitter.com/mikebroeker/status/708733655515062272
Hopefully the NIT selection committee follows Broeker on Twitter
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 13, 2016, 09:50:19 AM
Mike Broeker tweet from last night:
"After L4 out; Top 100 RPI Ws by NIT at-large candidates - #mubb, Bama, LSU, LBSU, Va Tech - 7; FSU, Georgia, Houston - 6; Ga Tech, Wash - 5."
https://twitter.com/mikebroeker/status/708733655515062272
Hopefully the NIT selection committee follows Broeker on Twitter
We beat LSU which should account for something.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 13, 2016, 09:50:19 AM
Mike Broeker tweet from last night:
"After L4 out; Top 100 RPI Ws by NIT at-large candidates - #mubb, Bama, LSU, LBSU, Va Tech - 7; FSU, Georgia, Houston - 6; Ga Tech, Wash - 5."
https://twitter.com/mikebroeker/status/708733655515062272
Hopefully the NIT selection committee follows Broeker on Twitter
Looks like a partial list of the teams we will see in Vegas
Quote from: bilsu on March 13, 2016, 09:26:40 AM
I do not think he is a horse crap rebounder. However, my point is that if he was a great rebounder he be averaging 14 game instead of 10. He is not fulfilling his potential as a rebounder. He gets the easy rebounds. Have you ever seen Henry sky above someone to get a rebound. Most of his rebounds are flat footed. He has great size and is very smart, so he gets a lot of rebounds. He is not an aggressive rebounder and therefore in my book should not be called a great rebounder.
Wojo plays a four out and one in offense (Buzz ran a three out and two in offense). The one in is primarily Luke. Luke is #61 in the nation in offensive rebounding rate, but MU, as a team under Wojo both years, are the worst MU offensive rebounding teams in recorded KPom history, however--one year with HE and one without. This is by design so MU gets back to set up on defense (like Wisconsin under Bo).
On defense, Henry is #2 in the Big East in defensive rebounding rate. This is also by design as Wojo has Luke seal on defense, freeing HE to board and turn to lead the break out on transition, with a dribble or quick pass. HE gets "easy" (your word, not mine) rebounds as that is exactly what Wojo wants to free him to lead the break out (with Henry's unique skill set).
When Luke is in foul trouble, Henry becomes that physical battler on both ends, if you notice. "Mad Henry" appears and is doing damage. The kid is a freak and is very talented as he can play many roles. MU will miss him greatly. Understand, what you are complaining about is by the coach's design, so bitch about Wojo then.
Quote from: warriorstrack on March 13, 2016, 09:59:50 AM
Looks like a partial list of the teams we will see in Vegas
If MU does not receive an NIT invite, their season will be over.
Quote from: muguru on March 13, 2016, 10:25:30 AM
If MU does not receive an NIT invite, their season will be over.
In your mind, or in reality? Likely two different things
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 10:28:15 AM
In your mind, or in reality? Likely two different things
I think the poster is implying MU will not accept any other bid.
Quote from: bilsu on March 13, 2016, 09:26:40 AM
I do not think he is a horse crap rebounder. However, my point is that if he was a great rebounder he be averaging 14 game instead of 10. He is not fulfilling his potential as a rebounder. He gets the easy rebounds. Have you ever seen Henry sky above someone to get a rebound. Most of his rebounds are flat footed. He has great size and is very smart, so he gets a lot of rebounds. He is not an aggressive rebounder and therefore in my book should not be called a great rebounder.
I guess it depends upon how one defines "great."
If a college player must average 14 rebounds to be "great," then there is exactly one great rebounder in the entire country, Egidijus Mockevicius of Evansville, who averaged exactly 14.0 rebounds. I haven't seen him, so I don't know if I would have traded Henry for him straight up. But looking at probable NBA drafts, it doesn't appear scouts and GMs would have traded Hank for Edgy!
So what is "very good"? Or "good"?
In my estimation, based upon having watched every Marquette game this season and dozens of other college basketball games, Henry is a very good rebounder. I wouldn't call him "great," either, but I am very reluctant to use that word. Bill Russell was a great rebounder. Schindler's List was a great movie. The Beatles were a great rock band.
As for Henry not skying above the world for rebounds, more than 90% of all rebounds are gathered in below the rim. How many rebounds did Wes Unseld "sky" for?
The bigger issue here is that you are so anxious to tear down the best freshman Marquette has had in years (or ever) that you repeatedly get into semantic scraps over how good he isn't.
I'm not one who goes back and looks up posts Scoopers made years ago -- I leave that to Chicos and others. But I don't remember you being so knee-jerk negative in the past, bilsu. Maybe I'm wrong and you've always been this way. Or maybe a few less-satisfying years have turned you into a grump.
Whatevs. It's your life. If you want to be pissed off about Marquette basketball, enjoy!
Aside from a half-dozen or so games, I enjoyed watching this team. I enjoyed watching Henry, even though he didn't rebound like Rodman or shoot like Bird. I saw significant improvement almost across the board, including the coaching staff. And I think Marquette basketball has a bright future.
If I ending up having been wrong about that last sentence, I can live with that. I enjoy my life as a "realistic optimist."
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 10:28:15 AM
In your mind, or in reality? Likely two different things
Reality. Vegas doesn't make much sense for this team. I think the last game of the year was against Xavier.
Quote from: AirPunch on March 13, 2016, 10:46:55 AM
Reality. Vegas doesn't make much sense for this team. I think the last game of the year was against Xavier.
In YOUR opinion. If you're claiming inside knowledge I submit you're not BD. Marquette has given no hint whatsoever about Plan B.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2016, 10:39:22 AM
I think the poster is implying MU will not accept any other bid.
I guess we will find out.
If MU misses the NIT this year whoever finalized such an RPI killing schedule needs to be fired! That being said...I think HE star might be bright enough to pull us into the field.
Da NIT used ta be all 'bout $. If day figured yo team could sell more tix @ home or on da road, you'd be in. We'll see if anythin's changed, hey?
Quote from: muguru on March 13, 2016, 10:25:30 AM
If MU does not receive an NIT invite, their season will be over.
Hate to say it because I'd love to see us play in Vegas, but I suspect this is correct.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 13, 2016, 11:21:52 AM
Da NIT used ta be all 'bout $. If day figured yo team could sell more tix @ home or on da road, you'd be in. We'll see if anythin's changed, hey?
Other than our RPI I think we have a good profile. Probably more "good wins" and fewer "bad losses" most other teams in the convo. Plus a lottery pick. Plus a coach from the K tree, who ESPN adores. Plus a fan base that travels relatively well. I'm optimistic.
Our scheduling really wasn't that terrible, IMO. It's just that the RPI sees it as terrible because our easy games were 10's on the easy scale. Could have had other easy games that were 6's and been better off.
PS ---
Kansas' opp RPI in their losses on average: 54
MU's avg RPI loss: 51
Virginia... 55
Oregon.. 70
Xavier.. 51
Miami (FL)...65
Kentucky.. 83
In other words, CROWN US! NIT, please consider average RPI loss.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2016, 07:23:04 AM
NYC Buckets and Dratings updated their NCAA and NIT brackets overnight.
Fork meet MU. See ya at Madness.
http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/
http://www.dratings.com/predictor/bracketology/
Irony of ironies, all predictions have Beauregard and VaTec in the NIT. Have to give Brent his due. He seems to be turning around a program with no real history, at a football school. Of course, he is living in West Succotash, Virginia, with its lack of distractions, unless you drive up to Roanoke for a 3.2 beer.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 12, 2016, 11:47:59 PM
Is bilsu a bad person? Maybe
He only makes the easy posts
So, this is the worst Marquette OOC SOS rank in the fifteen years of Pomeroy (#344 worst nationally). For the previous 14 years, MU's average rank was #236.
MU's overall SOS (OOC + Conference) was #83 this season, contrasted to to a #42 average over the previous fourteen years, or about 100% worse.
These double-frosted cupcakes, coupled with home losses to Belmont (in), Creighton (in), and DePaul killed our RPI as a result, and killed our chances with the NIT. I too hope for miracles, but the modern day NIT follows similar criteria today as the March Madness selection committee. In the past, commercial viability also was a big NIT weight. No more which is why we are on the sidelines looking to get in.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2016, 10:00:58 AM
Wojo plays a four out and one in offense (Buzz ran a three out and two in offense). The one in is primarily Luke. Luke is #61 in the nation in offensive rebounding rate, but MU, as a team under Wojo both years, are the worst MU offensive rebounding teams in recorded KPom history, however--one year with HE and one without. This is by design so MU gets back to set up on defense (like Wisconsin under Bo).
I want to make sure I understand what you are saying....the worst MU offensive rebounding team in KPom recorded history? How far back does that go?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 01:07:12 PM
I want to make sure I understand what you are saying....the worst MU offensive rebounding team in KPom recorded history? How far back does that go?
Kenpom started in 2002.
I haven't looked up the rebounding stats though
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 01:07:12 PM
I want to make sure I understand what you are saying....the worst MU offensive rebounding team in KPom recorded history? How far back does that go?
Worst MU offensive rebounding rate team. KPom goes back fifteen seasons, and it isn't even really close.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 08:46:17 AM
You realize that someone could transfer and not burn any eligibility because they can graduate this year,
Of course I do.
Do you realize that Duane, JJJ and Luke are all juniors school wise and are extremely unlikely to be in a position to graduate after 3 years of college.
What a dumb comment.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 13, 2016, 01:32:33 PM
Of course I do.
Do you realize that Duane, JJJ and Luke are all juniors school wise and are extremely unlikely to be in a position to graduate after 3 years of college.
What a dumb comment.
You sure about that.....
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 13, 2016, 01:32:33 PM
Of course I do.
Do you realize that Duane, JJJ and Luke are all juniors school wise and are extremely unlikely to be in a position to graduate after 3 years of college.
What a dumb comment.
Or they put in extra hours and will be eligible to graduate.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2016, 01:29:40 PM
Worst MU offensive rebounding rate team. KPom goes back fifteen seasons, and it isn't even really close.
I might put an asterisks in there..
When we had a 6'6" center named Lazar, the team's OR% as a percentage of the average D-I team's OR% was actually worse than this year. (OR% is doooooowwwwwnnnn this year.)
Further, MU got to the line a relatively healthy amount this year -- this hurts a team's OR%. In the 2009-10 season, MU didn't get to the line as often.
So... lowest OR% this year? Sure. Worst OR team this year? Would argue otherwise...
93.9
94.3
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2016, 01:29:40 PM
Worst MU offensive rebounding rate team. KPom goes back fifteen seasons, and it isn't even really close.
I guess I'm reading it differently than you.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 01:37:06 PM
You sure about that.....
So who of JJ or Luke have taken a full course load for their three years in college plus a full slate of summer classes to be able to graduate after 3 years?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2016, 01:37:30 PM
Or they put in extra hours and will be eligible to graduate.
They'd have to take a full course load of 15-18 credits each semester plus at least 9 credits each summer to even be remotely close. I bet most D1 athletes in major sports take 12 credits a semester. I think it is incredibly unlikely that Luke or JJJ or Duane are in that position.
Wally could potentially be ready to graduate this year - he's been in school for four years. And he can actually jump for rebounds. But I'm not sure he's a crucial piece of the team as you're talking about it.
Interesting thought on one of the juniors being ready to graduate in three years. Losing one of those three would be tough to overcome.
Well....San Diego State with a #41 RPI missed the NCAA tourney
NIT is going to be damn hard to make
Quote from: Goose on March 13, 2016, 05:07:33 PM
Interesting thought on one of the juniors being ready to graduate in three years. Losing one of those three would be tough to overcome.
Unless someone has been preparing for this for a couple years, it seems extremely unlikely to lose any of the juniors, besides maybe Wally who IMO wouldn't be much of a loss. Go grab a grad transfer or freshman project with that schollie if he decides to go. Still seems unlikely.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 13, 2016, 05:48:46 PM
Unless someone has been preparing for this for a couple years, it seems extremely unlikely to lose any of the juniors, besides maybe Wally who IMO wouldn't be much of a loss. Go grab a grad transfer or freshman project with that schollie if he decides to go. Still seems unlikely.
Graduate transfer exception is for those who have not had a 4-year to 4-year transfer in the past. Still, (Wally) could apply for a waiver, but not under the grad transfer EXCEPTION.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 13, 2016, 05:36:04 PM
Well....San Diego State with a #41 RPI missed the NCAA tourney
NIT is going to be damn hard to make
Don't forget Saint Mary's with a 38 RPI.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 13, 2016, 05:52:34 PM
Graduate transfer exception is for those who have not had a 4-year to 4-year transfer in the past. Still, (Wally) could apply for a waiver, but not under the grad transfer EXCEPTION.
For people who need an explanation:
http://www.athleticscholarships.net/2013/05/09/the-graduate-transfer-exception-vs-the-graduate-transfer-waiver.htm
At least Hoop Dreams is on Comcast Sports Chicago. Haven't seen it in ages.
NIT selection show is at 8:30 Eastern on ESPNU>
First Four out were st bonnies, momnouth , valpo and south carolina. By the NIT rules those 4 will automatically get the top seeds in the NIT
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 13, 2016, 06:06:44 PM
NIT selection show is at 8:30 Eastern on ESPNU>
First Four out were st bonnies, momnouth , valpo and south carolina. By the NIT rules those 4 will automatically get the top seeds in the NIT
how many Auto bids in addition to these? 12-14?
When is the Vegas 16 selection show a''inal?
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 13, 2016, 01:53:20 PM
They'd have to take a full course load of 15-18 credits each semester plus at least 9 credits each summer to even be remotely close. I bet most D1 athletes in major sports take 12 credits a semester. I think it is incredibly unlikely that Luke or JJJ or Duane are in that position.
Probably doesn't happen often. That said, I'd be very careful making definitive statements in this regard.
When is Louisville's next player 'party'?
LSU just announced they won't play in the NIT.
After that performance against A&M, I wouldn't want to play anymore either.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 13, 2016, 06:30:14 PM
LSU just announced they won't play in the NIT.
They have massive budget problems at LSU they aren't going to spend money on basketball.
Quote from: forgetful on March 13, 2016, 06:35:01 PM
They have massive budget problems at LSU they aren't going to spend money on basketball.
Maybe a top player would be suspended and unable to play?
Quote from: forgetful on March 13, 2016, 06:35:01 PM
They have massive budget problems at LSU they aren't going to spend money on basketball.
So no more Ben Simmons because the price of oil crashed (LA's state budget is heavily dependent on oil prices and LSU budget is getting butchered)
Has the bracket leaked yet?
So you are saying there's a chance?
These NIT brackets just updated after the NCAAs announced, but still have MU (and now, LSU out).
http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/
http://bracketmatrix.com/nit
(http://www.theinquirer.net/IMG/340/276340/fat-lady-sings.jpg)
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 13, 2016, 06:40:53 PM
Maybe a top player would be suspended and unable to play?
That's a secondary concern.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2016, 06:52:55 PM
These NIT brackets just updated after the NCAAs announced, but still have MU (and now, LSU out).
http://www.nycbuckets.com/current-nit-bracketology/
http://bracketmatrix.com/nit
Hey, at least MU is on the "also considered" lists...
Unveiling the 1 seeds now. On edge of seat...
Creighton Alabama might be good.
Barney a 3 seed.
Damn not playing Buzz.
When does Vegas 16 announce?
Creighton with a #4. Va Tech with a #3. Higher seeds than one might expect.
Valo vs. Big Chris
No Hank vs Big Chris NBA.
Not many slots left. Trying to stay positive.
How pathetic is it that Bryce Drew turned down DePaul to stay at Valpo?
Doable, we got this, ai na?
Las Vegas Selection Show on Homie Shopping Network, if this one doesn't work out.
haha. But do we know when we will know about Vegas?
Rumor out there that KState and Ole Miss(two supposed NIT teams) are going to be playing in Vegas instead.
Quote from: jaygall31 on March 13, 2016, 07:44:57 PM
haha. But do we know when we will know about Vegas?
I think it is officially announced in the AM tomorrow but maybe leaked before that.
Was hoping we would play at Houston. In Houston this week for biz.
3 years of no NIT lol
Quote from: muguru on March 13, 2016, 07:46:00 PM
Rumor out there that KState and Ole Miss(two supposed NIT teams) are going to be playing in Vegas instead.
It would be nice if ADs would get on the horn with the LV committee. Maybe they have.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on March 13, 2016, 07:49:10 PM
3 years of no NIT lol
That is actually disappointing.....next year can't come soon enough
This one is less disappointing than 2014. At least this year I expected us to miss the NIT.
15 auto bids didn't help. That can be our excuse.
The two ex-Dookie coaches hosed themselves with their double-cupcake OOC schedules.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 13, 2016, 07:50:30 PM
That is actually disappointing.....next year can't come soon enough
I'm not so sure next year is going to be any better than this year.
Not suprising
Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 13, 2016, 07:51:38 PM
Ugh.
meanwhile wisconsin has had its best seasons ever in the same time period
After that interview, it sure seemed like LSU was in.
Actually sounds like Vegas teams announced tonight at some point but no bracket til later....
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on March 13, 2016, 07:54:01 PM
meanwhile wisconsin has had its best seasons ever in the same time period
(http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/spongebob/images/1/1d/Nobody_cares.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20121006035330)
Bummer. Hoping Vegas is an option.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on March 13, 2016, 07:54:01 PM
meanwhile wisconsin has had its best seasons ever in the same time period
And is still being out-recruited by Marquette.
Bazz got in, we totally suck it
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on March 13, 2016, 07:54:01 PM
meanwhile wisconsin has had its best seasons ever in the same time period
Stop faking being an MU fan and just go to the badger boards.
Think about this folks...Long beach State...got in the NIT and MU didn't...stop and think about that for a minute.
Quote from: Blueprint on March 13, 2016, 07:56:01 PM
Bazz got in, we totally suck it
That does hurt that a rebuilding Va Tech team gets in, and we don't. Salt in the wound.
Quote from: jsglow on March 13, 2016, 07:53:17 PM
Not suprising
Not surprising but still very disappointing when you take a step back and look at the talent on our roster. I've been a big defender of wojo but no doubt in my mind that next year is tourney or bust.
Quote from: muguru on March 13, 2016, 07:56:35 PM
Think about this folks...Long beach State...got in the NIT and MU didn't...stop and think about that for a minute.
OK.
<thinks hard>
Now what?
So did buzz. Vegas?
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on March 13, 2016, 07:52:36 PM
15 auto bids didn't help. That can be our excuse.
I don't think you're entitled to an excuse for missing the NIT. Broeker's head should be on the chopping block
Quote from: Norm on March 13, 2016, 07:52:55 PM
I'm not so sure next year is going to be any better than this year.
Yeah but next year we won't have people talking us off the ledge
Buzz got in and we didn't. That should be a cause for reflection.
Creighton fan base really helps their cause. Given they are only Big East team in the field I will be rooting for them.
MU sports administration group hurt our cause with their poor OOC scheduling. No excuses for what they did.
Also congrats to Gabe Levin and Long Beach State. He had a good year and so did the team.
Is there really a break down show on the NIT?
Quote from: tower912 on March 13, 2016, 07:58:45 PM
So did buzz. Vegas?
Nah. It's over. Use this as motivation for next year.
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on March 13, 2016, 07:55:23 PM
Actually sounds like Vegas teams announced tonight at some point but no bracket til later....
From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Vegas_16_Tournament
Participants will be announced Sunday, March 13 after the NCAA Selection Show.
Maybe we can scrimmage K-State.
Quote from: Babybluejeans on March 13, 2016, 07:55:50 PM
And is still being out-recruited by Marquette.
Yes because it's all about recruiting!?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 13, 2016, 08:01:52 PM
Maybe we can scrimmage K-State.
Especially since Michael Beasley isn't around to affect our seeding for next year.
Buzz finally got into the NIT...3 years too late...
Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 13, 2016, 07:56:59 PM
That does hurt that a rebuilding Va Tech team gets in, and we don't. Salt in the wound.
Lol
Not one bit
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 08:03:25 PM
Buzz finally got into the NIT...3 years too late...
They playing Western Michigan?
Fooked, not one of da top 100 teams, ai na? Feel bad for students who don't know what great Warriors hoops is all 'bout, hey?
Marquette hasn't tweeted its obligatory "we will not be partaking in any post-season basketball tournaments" as it has done the past two years...Vegas anyone?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 08:06:11 PM
Lol
Not one bit
Va tech got in with no burger boys and half the talent we have. You still dont think buzz is a good coach? What about greg guard in his first 6 weeks doing better than wojo has in 2 years?
4ever
My son is senior and enjoyed E8 year and my daughter a junior and is 0-3 thus far. Lot of money spent by Pops sending them to a basketball school
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 08:06:11 PM
Lol
Not one bit
That's ridiculous. We had all the infrastructure, and we're waiting to see if we get in a bottom-barrel tournament.
Never thought Bazz wasn't a good coach, thought he bailed on the program for whatever reason.
Jury still out on Gard, I'm sure he knew Bo was poison at some point and he would get it if he won
some games.
Quote from: GB Warrior on March 13, 2016, 08:14:11 PM
That's ridiculous. We had all the infrastructure, and we're waiting to see if we get in a bottom-barrel tournament.
All the infrastructure. Not enough experience on the court, including the coaches.
69-77. Team in da midst of 81 straight at da Arena. NIT champs, 74 runner up, 77 Champs--I saw it all up close and personal. A special bond with friends and my University. Priceless memories 4ever, ai na?
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on March 13, 2016, 08:11:31 PM
Va tech got in with no burger boys and half the talent we have. You still dont think buzz is a good coach? What about greg guard in his first 6 weeks doing better than wojo has in 2 years?
Amen...and if it weren't for Larry and Pilarsz, Buzz might very well be here. He got a raw deal, yet everyone here beats him up...That's one of those be careful what you wish for things...well you got it...and it isn't pretty.
If not for Dwight Clay that 81 would have been a lot more.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 13, 2016, 08:17:22 PM
All the infrastructure. Not enough experience on the court, including the coaches.
Who's fault is that?? I hate to say it, but I think they reached on Wojo.
Quote from: muguru on March 13, 2016, 08:20:18 PM
Who's fault is that?? I hate to say it, but I think they reached on Wojo.
Too early to tell. There's progress - though it's slow and steady.
Our BB program right now is in a shambles. To many "cupcakes". Our big game next will against
the "Little Sisters of the Poor". We will have to wear "Habits"
69-77! Can't beat it,but its getting late for me to witness it again.
Quote from: Blueprint on March 13, 2016, 08:17:03 PM
Never thought Bazz wasn't a good coach, thought he bailed on the program for whatever reason.
Jury still out on Gard, I'm sure he knew Bo was poison at some point and he would get it if he won
some games.
Buzz never bailed until the higher ups bailed on him. Higher ups wanted to be some lilly white suburban program; wanted cake and eat it too. This is what we got. Next year, no henry? Not looking good. We will have same discussion 365 days from now.
Quote from: VegasWarrior77 on March 13, 2016, 08:01:09 PM
From wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Vegas_16_Tournament
Participants will be announced Sunday, March 13 after the NCAA Selection Show.
Am I reading this right, that the first round games aren't even televised?
It feels like just 3 years ago that we had the 2nd longest current home win streak... Oh wait.... =(
Hopefully the effects from the decimated roster that Buzz left will soon be ready to win.
Bad week to stop smoking. Gave up most of my bad habits.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 13, 2016, 08:23:34 PM
Am I reading this right, that the first round games aren't even televised?
They will be streamed...
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 13, 2016, 08:23:34 PM
Am I reading this right, that the first round games aren't even televised?
Looks like they can be watched on vegas16.com.
The guy who didn't give good PowerPoint is a four seed in the Big Dance. Just sayin.
No word from MU, smellin Vegas in the wind.
Non con killed our RPI. We performed well.
Let's see how Vegas looks. I'd rather play k state than Akron.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2016, 08:26:28 PM
The guy who didn't give good PowerPoint is a four seed in the Big Dance. Just sayin.
Yeah I have noticed that. He has done a real good job with that team this year.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 13, 2016, 08:29:10 PM
Yeah I have noticed that. He has done a real good job with that team this year.
With tougher academics...
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 13, 2016, 08:29:10 PM
Yeah I have noticed that. He has done a real good job with that team this year.
Would he have brought their two one and dones to Marquette ? Probably not
Hypothetically...would MU hang a Vegas 16 banner?
Quote from: AirPunch on March 13, 2016, 08:30:20 PM
Would he have brought their two one and dones to Marquette ? Probably not
He can recruit. He did at Tennessee. No reason to expect he couldn't have here.
Evansville (25-9) has just declined the CBI, CIT, and Vegas 16. Same with Northwestern (20-12)
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on March 13, 2016, 08:23:21 PM
Buzz never bailed until the higher ups bailed on him. Higher ups wanted to be some lilly white suburban program; wanted cake and eat it too. This is what we got. Next year, no henry? Not looking good. We will have same discussion 365 days from now.
The higher ups were tired of seeing the university sullied by the basketball team. There is a difference between the absurdity you just stated and reality. MU is hardly some Lilly white suburban program, but not are the going to accept the drip drip drip of players getting in trouble and the university being blasted all over the news because they couldn't control themselves.
One thing is for sure, if we don't do well next year I expect you to be here for sure. If we bounce back, I expect you to be incredibly quiet and nowhere to be found.
How 'bout Cardinal Strich and MSOE, hey?
Expecting it or not, this one still stings.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on March 13, 2016, 08:11:31 PM
Va tech got in with no burger boys and half the talent we have. You still dont think buzz is a good coach? What about greg guard in his first 6 weeks doing better than wojo has in 2 years?
You are laughable in your comparisons. That same Buzz that couldn't get into the same NIT with some of these same players on the team he constructed?
Gard's team lost to Wojo...he was the Asst coach and couldn't figure it out...at home.
Vegas16 website:
http://www.vegas16.com/#home
Quote from: GB Warrior on March 13, 2016, 08:14:11 PM
That's ridiculous. We had all the infrastructure, and we're waiting to see if we get in a bottom-barrel tournament.
Infrastructure? Infrastructure doesn't make up for experience of players or coaches...hate to break it to you.
Don't like the situation we are in....ask why Buzz tanked his last year and didn't want to be accountable to anyone.
Lol @ broekers tweet talking about our wins:
We have 3 including 2 on the road. More than others. Hope NIT committee looking at its field same way. #mubb
The only thing he should be tweeting now is apologies for the schedule he put together this year. Robbed season ticket holders of their money and the chance for MU to play in at least the NIT. That will catch up to them next year with the non-renewals. They will get what they deserve there.
Quote from: VegasWarrior77 on March 13, 2016, 08:42:25 PM
Vegas16 website:
http://www.vegas16.com/#home
Just bought myself a sweet Vegas 16 sweatshirt & hat ;)
http://vegas16.cbscollegestore.com/mobile//store.cfm?store_id=565
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 08:36:57 PM
The higher ups were tired of seeing the university sullied by the basketball team. There is a difference between the absurdity you just stated and reality. MU is hardly some Lilly white suburban program, but not are the going to accept the drip drip drip of players getting in trouble and the university being blasted all over the news because they couldn't control themselves.
One thing is for sure, if we don't do well next year I expect you to be here for sure. If we bounce back, I expect you to be incredibly quiet and nowhere to be found.
This higher ups thought they were punishing Buzz and it turns out the were punishing us. Great deal.
Quote from: AirPunch on March 13, 2016, 08:48:31 PM
Lol @ broekers tweet talking about our wins:
We have 3 including 2 on the road. More than others. Hope NIT committee looking at its field same way. #mubb
Here is the visual for anyone interested:
(https://i.imgflip.com/10sgsk.jpg)
MU season officially done:
https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/709195800644075522
68 teams to NCAA
32 to NIT
Guess not one of 100 best teams.
This Vegas 16 thing will be just another CBI with teams turning them down in a few years.
Well damn. See you guys next year. Out.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 13, 2016, 08:54:59 PM
MU season officially done:
https://twitter.com/marquettembb/status/709195800644075522
I knew it was coming but the reality still hurts my fragile heart.
Probably confirms Hank is gone
Good night fellow warriors, time to take down the flag. See you next season. :-\ Let's hope for happier trails ahead.
I see that Washington and Ohio State made the field, two teams that were as young as were. This year has been a disappointment overall.
Creighton beats Alabama. They are now 19-14. I would like to see them get up to 20 wins. If they did that would be 7 Big East teams with 20.
Quote from: mufanatic on March 13, 2016, 10:45:20 PM
I see that Washington and Ohio State made the field, two teams that were as young as were. This year has been a disappointment overall.
tOSU ain't as young...
Washington, led by 27% usage, 177 ORtg senior Andrew Andrews who has logged millions of minutes over his career, a''inal?
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 15, 2016, 10:10:43 PM
tOSU ain't as young...
Washington, led by 27% usage, 177 ORtg senior Andrew Andrews who has logged millions of minutes over his career, a''inal?
Methinks you may have mistyped a digit there ;)
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on March 13, 2016, 08:53:41 PM
Here is the visual for anyone interested:
(https://i.imgflip.com/10sgsk.jpg)
How embarrassing. Lobbying to get into the NIT.
Caught half of the OSU/Akron game and it was ugly. Also saw that Creighton slammed Alabama. It's too bad, we definitely could have made a little run there.
Honestly, even that Wich/Vandy game was just ugly basketball.
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on March 16, 2016, 07:55:41 AM
Caught half of the OSU/Akron game and it was ugly. Also saw that Creighton slammed Alabama. It's too bad, we definitely could have made a little run there.
Honestly, even that Wich/Vandy game was just ugly basketball.
Plenty of ugly basketball at the college level. Didn't watch a lot this year, but what I did see was poorly played and horribly officiated.
If MU was smart, they would look at the teams in the NIT that were champs of there conference, and play them. Lots of teams that MU could beat, after watching Alabama and Vandy, boy I question what is going on in that conference, both got stomped!
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 16, 2016, 08:55:55 AM
Plenty of ugly basketball at the college level. Didn't watch a lot this year, but what I did see was poorly played and horribly officiated.
I agree with this. I have been watching less and less of it because it just isn't good basketball. Last night's Wichita v. Vanderbilt game made my eyes bleed in the first half. Just terrible.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 16, 2016, 09:06:08 AM
I agree with this. I have been watching less and less of it because it just isn't good basketball. Last night's Wichita v. Vanderbilt game made my eyes bleed in the first half. Just terrible.
Glad I wasn't the only one who thought this.
Wichita State did have some nice stretches in the second half, though.
I know Vandy "deserved" a bid more than we did, so I'm not arguing that at all, but that was not a tournament team, and I'm quite sure we're the better team. We'll never know, though!
I would rather see teams like Monmouth and Valparaiso who consistently did work during the year to build up their resume, versus teams like Vanderbilt and Syracuse who are just mediocre P6 teams who got in due to a high RPI.
And this is my essential issue with using RPI. It "rewards" teams that perform simply OK in great conferences due to strength of schedule. Maybe non-conference RPI should be adjusted higher or given a greater weight? That way teams are encouraged even more to schedule top teams non-conference.
Quote from: MU82 on March 16, 2016, 09:29:41 AM
Glad I wasn't the only one who thought this.
Wichita State did have some nice stretches in the second half, though.
I know Vandy "deserved" a bid more than we did, so I'm not arguing that at all, but that was not a tournament team, and I'm quite sure we're the better team. We'll never know, though!
I would argue that in watching our last 3 games of the year (2 blowouts and hanging on to beat an 8 win team) that we are no where near the caliber of Vandy but you are right, we'll never know because of that non-conference schedule that was put together.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 16, 2016, 09:36:39 AM
I would rather see teams like Monmouth and Valparaiso who consistently did work during the year to build up their resume, versus teams like Vanderbilt and Syracuse who are just mediocre P6 teams who got in due to a high RPI.
And this is my essential issue with using RPI. It "rewards" teams that perform simply OK in great conferences due to strength of schedule. Maybe non-conference RPI should be adjusted higher or given a greater weight? That way teams are encouraged even more to schedule top teams non-conference.
Agree completely.
Wagner beats St. Bonaventure so Creighton gets another home game and a great shot at a 20th win vs. an #8 seed Saturday at 11 on ESPN.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 15, 2016, 10:45:40 PM
Methinks you may have mistyped a digit there ;)
Woah.. 117.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 16, 2016, 09:36:39 AM
I would rather see teams like Monmouth and Valparaiso who consistently did work during the year to build up their resume, versus teams like Vanderbilt and Syracuse who are just mediocre P6 teams who got in due to a high RPI.
And this is my essential issue with using RPI. It "rewards" teams that perform simply OK in great conferences due to strength of schedule. Maybe non-conference RPI should be adjusted higher or given a greater weight? That way teams are encouraged even more to schedule top teams non-conference.
Vanderbilt was smart about the cupcakes they scheduled. All winnable but much lower RPI than what we scheduled. They scheduled exactly the way many people on this site advocate we should schedule.
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_363_Men.html
I don't think RPI is the primary factor used, but it is something that sorts teams into the possibility category. It is like SAT / ACT in college admissions. You need to be at a certain threshold to get in the discussion. As some one pointed out, RPI comes into play at the beginning and then at the end of the process.
We have to be smarter about playing the RPI game as it is devised.
Creighton drew 6305 for the Alabama game late game tuesday night.
Demonstrates how little fan interest there is in the NIT. Creighton was drawing 16- 17,000 all year even for teams like North Texas State.
Will be interesting to see how many they draw Saturday against Wagner.
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 15, 2016, 10:58:46 PM
How embarrassing. Lobbying to get into the NIT.
Beginning to question if that is the new state of MU bball.