MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on January 02, 2016, 06:36:52 PM
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1. Luke looked small down low. Georgetown is big.
2. Wally plays hard. First to the floor a couple of times. And then, like Kaiser Soze...poof
3. Run for Heldt. He did all right. Not a disaster.
4. I'm not sure who Henry can guard. In man or zone. His perimeter defense ruined the zone.
5. MU played hard all night. They kept attacking the rack. Effort wasn't the problem.
6. Size, defense, free throws and rebounding were the problems. Need some team rebounding
7. Nice bounceback game for Traci. Best MU PG today.
8. How in the hell has Georgetown lost so many games at home?
9. Two straight games where the physicality of the bigs disrupted Luke and Henry. Eventually, they will learn how to do it against guys their own size. How come our bigs never get a foul call in the post? What is Henry's conference shooting percentage?
10. The defense during the second half run was inspiring. G-town helped by being sloppy.
11. The comeback heartened me, but I never felt MU was going to get over the hump. Friggin' DSR.
12. Bottom line..... a marked improvement over the SHU game. MU never quit. They got too far behind, but played their butts off. Winning conference road games is tough. No shame.
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Agree. Answer to 4), no one.
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We started to grow up a little. Hopefully we keep in mind that it doesn't matter who creates the contact, if you attack the rim with reckless abandon you will be rewarded by the refs. If you're timid you'll get owned down low. But you need to make your free throws. And your bunnies.
The Warriors will be alright if they remember to put their head down and attack.
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JJJ was very effective tonight when he got the opportunity. I think it is in our best interests to give him some more run. Not perfect by any means but he adds a dimension of speed and quickness that we don't have in any other player. I think he and Sandy make a nice combination.
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10.5 - the overall play during the 2nd half run... perhaps the team learned how they need to play in the BEAST.
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1. Luke looked small down low. Georgetown is big.
2. Wally plays hard. First to the floor a couple of times. And then, like Kaiser Soze...poof
3. Run for Heldt. He did all right. Not a disaster.
4. I'm not sure who Henry can guard. In man or zone. His perimeter defense ruined the zone.
5. MU played hard all night. They kept attacking the rack. Effort wasn't the problem.
6. Size, defense, free throws and rebounding were the problems. Need some team rebounding
7. Nice bounceback game for Traci. Best MU PG today.
8. How in the hell has Georgetown lost so many games at home?
9. Two straight games where the physicality of the bigs disrupted Luke and Henry. Eventually, they will learn how to do it against guys their own size. How come our bigs never get a foul call in the post? What is Henry's conference shooting percentage?
10. The defense during the second half run was inspiring. G-town helped by being sloppy.
11. The comeback heartened me, but I never felt MU was going to get over the hump. Friggin' DSR.
12. Bottom line..... a marked improvement over the SHU game. MU never quit. They got too far behind, but played their butts off. Winning conference road games is tough. No shame.
Disagree with #4. First half defensive effort was pathetic. 50 points on over 60% shooting?
2nd half was very good defensively. Just couldn't score enough.
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NO effort. A decent high school team would grab 16 rebounds.
Someone needs to remind these guys that it doesn't hurt to try.
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Our game is to much going inside. We need to take more outside shots.
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Have to disagree #5. The first 10 minutes they got out hustled for every 50-50 ball and rebound. 2nd half was how the entire game needs to be.
Problem on defense is we stand straight up and down cannot guard anyone until you get in a stance and move your feet.
Really hope Sam can knock down the open shot next year one shooter would help space the floor so much.
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We played a much better second half. Hopefully this means that they are figuring out how to play in this conference. Luke needs to make his shots. Otherwise play more inside out.
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Our game is to much going inside. We need to take more outside shots.
Should have looked to develop the outside game during the cupcake schedule, instead of pounding inside then hitting outside.
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My thoughts:
1. Maybe starting three freshman isn't the answer. When Wesley Matthew got hurt his freshman year and Marquette had to start upper classman Chapman. Marquette played much better with Wesley coming off the bench. JJJ or Wilson maybe should be the other starter.
2. Sandy Cohen has a very good outside shot but I don't recall a single outside shot this game. Why?
3. When your opponents have a big strong talented front line, going to Fischer constantly seemed pretty inept.
4. Really happy Marquette didn't give up.
5. Lots of season left. The Big East is a very good conference. Follow what Wojo says and don't give up.
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JJJ was very effective tonight when he got the opportunity. I think it is in our best interests to give him some more run. Not perfect by any means but he adds a dimension of speed and quickness that we don't have in any other player. I think he and Sandy make a nice combination.
Zero assists, Zero rebounds, Zero steals.
JJJ and Sandy are soft, soft, soft.
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JJJ had an awesome steal during the run.
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Wait for the final box score. Not a ton, but I know JJ had a steal and I know Cohen had a rebound. Not great, but not zero.
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How indeed has GTown lost 3 others at home?
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JJJ had an awesome steal during the run.
JJJ's steal might get credited to Cheatham.
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How indeed has GTown lost 3 others at home?
Other teams make layups and box out.
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Right now I'd take Luke over Henry, even though Luke gets blamed more than Henry and Luke takes more criticism. Luke bangs down low at least, Henry never did, at least for most of this game he didn't.
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Credit G-Town, they shot 22 of 23 from the line. We shoot a not awful 70%, but they prevented us sneaking back into the game right there.
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Wait for the final box score. Not a ton, but I know JJ had a steal and I know Cohen had a rebound. Not great, but not zero.
Cohen definitely had a steal and dunk, as well.
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Really hope Sam can knock down the open shot next year one shooter would help space the floor so much.
Rowsey
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This team is so challenged on the offensive end. In the 2nd half the defense was there to make a game of it but we simply could not score. I believe these guys are doing what Wojo is telling them to do but it always results in a contested shot. I recall once of the announcers saying "Marquette is very predictable". I think that is true. We can't always work the ball in low or drive. We were 5-10 from 3. Maybe when you're hitting the 3s you have to take more of them. We are an underdog and the only way we are going to pull an upset it to get hot. But when we are hot keep it going.
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1. Traci with a quadruple quadruple: 4 points, 4 assists, 4 steals and 4 fouls.
2. Haanif and Henry 5-19 combined with zero assists. They have been scouted and teams know they don't look to pass when they get the ball. This ain't high school where you can dominate.
3. MU with 11 steals. Only 9 turnovers.
4. MU out rebounded 41-28. Killing MU with all the extended possessions.
5. Great second half defense to make up for the 1st half no show.
6. Duane perfect outside the two lines. Two for nine inside of them.
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400840261
Sandy with 3 rebounds and a steal. JJ with 1 and 1
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http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400840261
Sandy with 3 rebounds and a steal. JJ with 1 and 1
Sandy also had 11 points.
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The boys played hard today. Could have folded when down 19 but pulled back. Make some bunnies and a few more at the line and it's a one possession game. Luke and Henry need to finish down low, but they were fouled multiple times w no calls.
Sorta need to be beat providence now. Losing 3 of 7 or 8 allowable losses would be a tough pill to swallow 3 games in, but the reality is that this team is likely still a year away. Sucks to admit it, but I'm not giving up. Still think the talent is there to win 10 or 11.
No more scoop til Monday am for me.
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Sandy had a nice second half. I was glad to see Wojo throw his arms in the air after Duanes off balance 17 ft runner and replace him with JJ. I was happier to see JJ take advantage. I would have been subbing Luke and Henry offense/defense down the stretch. Can't just sit Luke the last 5 minutes.
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4-14, like last year, may be realistic.
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JJJ had an awesome steal during the run.
He had two awesome steals.
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The boys played hard today. Could have folded when down 19 but pulled back. Make some bunnies and a few more at the line and it's a one possession game. Luke and Henry need to finish down low, but they were fouled multiple times w no calls.
Sorta need to be beat providence now. Losing 3 of 7 or 8 allowable losses would be a tough pill to swallow 3 games in, but the reality is that this team is likely still a year away. Sucks to admit it, but I'm not giving up. Still think the talent is there to win 10 or 11.
No more scoop til Monday am for me.
No way 10 or 11. I think 8 would be great at this point.
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JJJ was very effective tonight when he got the opportunity. I think it is in our best interests to give him some more run. Not perfect by any means but he adds a dimension of speed and quickness that we don't have in any other player. I think he and Sandy make a nice combination.
Are you related to JJJ?
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Are you related to JJJ?
Ask the more important question. Are you related to Ners?
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No way 10 or 11. I think 8 would be great at this point.
Perhaps, but it's gonna take 10 minimum to dance. That's always my goal. Two losses don't change that...yet. But it's very unlikely at this point, unfortunately.
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Perhaps, but it's gonna take 10 minimum to dance. That's always my goal. Two losses don't change that...yet. But it's very unlikely at this point, unfortunately.
Never expected this team to dance. Way to young. Getting some post season play in the NIT would be nice to build on.
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Perhaps, but it's gonna take 10 minimum to dance. That's always my goal. Two losses don't change that...yet. But it's very unlikely at this point, unfortunately.
MU is not going to make the dance this year. Right now they are not a good team and their McDonald All American is not playing like one. It's gonna be another long season, as the Big Eadt has a lot of good teams that we just do not match up against right now.
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Just back from game, had great seats behind bench.
The size and quickness of Georgetown players as opposed to MU is remarkable. Everyone with exception of Carter are so much smaller in physical size. A Georgetown fan sitting next to me even asked why MU has so many skinny kids and farm boys and asked didn't they recruit the city kids. I told him one farm boy is a prep All American and he responded by saying "Tell that to Marcus (Derrickson). Couldn't say much at that.... Don't know what rebounding margin was but sure it was Georgetown by a boatload. Cohen, Wilson, JJJ, Fischer, Cheatham all very lean. Amazing.
Never seen so many close-in misses by a bigman than Fischer has. He has one shot and that is a little hook. He has no face up shot and that it probably why he is a poor free throw shooter and the opposition knows that. Wojo yelled at him something to the effect, "Can't you make anything" and sat him the last five minutes.
Changing point in game was when MU down 8 with like 10 to go. Henry missed a three, Fischer a hook, and Wilson had three or four drives that missed. The whole time, Georgetown did not score. Then Cohen fouled on three pointer, up by 12. Very poor possessions and that was it. Henry continues to shoot threes and probably around 20% for the year.
Again, MU won the turnover war big time, but lost the game just like SH.
Scoreboard said MU missed 9 free throws and Georgetown went 22 for 23. Impressive, but 9 point difference.
DSR had last 12 Georgetown points.
Henry has the skill set, you can see it in a kid his size. But his defense was horrible, that Derrickson killed him in first half and was so much stronger physically. He continues to struggle, but you can see potential in his size and ability.
Last thing, some may get on Carter, but he was the only vocal one calling out his teammates, urging them on like a mad man, especially in first half. Didn't know if any of it was caught on camera. Good for him.
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Tower, I've got to admit that I look forward to your "thoughts" posts and find that I agree with most of your observations. Like most of you, I am sure, I am frustrated with where we are and what we have done so far this year (I suppose I should confine that to BE play since the Sno-Balls were tasty).
A few "thoughts"of my own. Outrebounded again. Too many missed FT's.
Thought Traci had a good start but Wojo glued him to the bench in the second half after a couple (or more) blow-bys. Duane, God bless him, does take up the offense when o one else seems to want to, but a lot of his efforts seem out of control. Luke and HE were 8-26 - neither seems, at this point, to be able to finish with the kind of BE body contact (certainly not called today) that is par for the course. I wonder what their FG% is in BE vs. the cupcakes. Of course, all I had to do was criticize SCIII and Hani at halftime and they picked it up.
It just seems tat every time we need a key bucket, or stop, or rebound, it just doesn't happen. Growth will happen, but our tournament hopes are at this point delusional.
Will be able to see the squad at Prov on Tuesday - I'll root 'em on cuz they're my team. But I'll probably lay the points.
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Rowsey
Thanks forgot about him
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Agree with nyg regarding HE shooting three's. He still thinks he is in HS. He has no business playing out there and he can't make them. Get near the basket and stop playing the perimeter. He is not using his size playing outside.
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Ask the more important question. Are you related to Ners?
He and Texas Western on game chat.
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I think some changes need to be really considered in the SC program. Guys are not progressing.
JJJ looks the same as when he entered the program 3 years ago. Ditto for Duane. Luke is now 2 years in and I don't see much of an improvement in strength and athleticism.
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He and Texas Western on game chat.
Starts thread about Dawson at Liberty...... wants JJ to get more time...... just a little over the top verbosity and I am sold.
edit: Just went through his posting history. Now very skeptical.
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Derrickson was a tank. And he lost weight before the season! I don't think Luke has seen any wide-bodies this year and he needs to learn to power up to the rim. Henry has a good midrange jumper but didn't take it on several opportunities. Sandy wasn't really taking open 3's either. They all need to get back to doing the things they do best, just with a couple bodies hanging on them.
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I think some changes need to be really considered in the SC program. Guys are not progressing.
JJJ looks the same as when he entered the program 3 years ago. Ditto for Duane. Luke is now 2 years in and I don't see much of an improvement in strength and athleticism.
In my opinion JJJ and DW are much improved. Does anyone remember how awkward JJJ jump shot was his first year. Vast improvement now.
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In my opinion JJJ and DW are much improved. Does anyone remember how awkward JJJ jump shot was his first year. Vast improvement now.
My comment is on strength and conditioning only. I just don't see an improvement in the physique and strength from the returning guys.
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My comment is on strength and conditioning only. I just don't see an improvement in the physique and strength from the returning guys.
Watch some tape of Sandy from last season. Noticeably stronger this year.
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Watch some tape of Sandy from last season. Noticeably stronger this year.
Sandy in high school:
(http://bcdownload.gannett.edgesuite.net/greenbay/41823006001/201401/3216/41823006001_3064618283001_S-GPG-West-De-Pere-vs--Seymour-basketball-1-16-140442--1-.jpg?pubId=41823006001)
Sandy this season:
(http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/marq/sports/m-baskbl/auto_action/11549222.jpeg)
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Watch some tape of Sandy from last season. Noticeably stronger this year.
I agree on Sandy, but what about the others?
And, I believe this issue goes back a few years too. I didnt think Steve Taylor and Juan Anderson progressed all that much in terms of SC.
This was a staple of the program in the Crean and early Buzz years. Guys would transform themselves physically over their careers.
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Dumb question but who is the strength and conditioning coach? Couldn't find it on the basketball site
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Watch some tape of Sandy from last season. Noticeably stronger this year.
Really? He does not seem that much bigger to me.
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Dumb question but who is the strength and conditioning coach? Couldn't find it on the basketball site
Todd Smith. The same SC guy from the late Crean era and during all of Buzz's tenure. That's the part that puzzles me, but this is a noticeable issue.
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My middle son volunteered in the weight room this fall. MU has a very rigorous, high tech weight training regimen for each sport.
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Then maybe MU is just recruiting guys who are pretty skinny with high metabolisms that just won't put on weight. Compared to Georgetown today we looked very skinny in comparison.
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Really? He does not seem that much bigger to me.
Freshmen Year: 180 lbs.
http://www.anonymouseagle.com/2015/4/14/8410037/marquette-basketball-2014-2015-player-review-sandy-cohen
Sophomore Year: 200 lbs.
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/sandy_cohen_iii_903476.html
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Then maybe MU is just recruiting guys who are pretty skinny with high metabolisms that just won't put on weight. Compared to Georgetown today we looked very skinny in comparison.
I have been down in the weight room and seen the guys working out. Everyone on the team has put on muscle. Sandy and JJJ are both up to 200. They were bean poles to start with so progress comes over time. Hard to put on muscle and keep on weight during season.
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Just back from game, had great seats behind bench.
The size and quickness of Georgetown players as opposed to MU is remarkable. Everyone with exception of Carter are so much smaller in physical size. A Georgetown fan sitting next to me even asked why MU has so many skinny kids and farm boys and asked didn't they recruit the city kids. I told him one farm boy is a prep All American and he responded by saying "Tell that to Marcus (Derrickson). Couldn't say much at that.... Don't know what rebounding margin was but sure it was Georgetown by a boatload. Cohen, Wilson, JJJ, Fischer, Cheatham all very lean. Amazing.
Never seen so many close-in misses by a bigman than Fischer has. He has one shot and that is a little hook. He has no face up shot and that it probably why he is a poor free throw shooter and the opposition knows that. Wojo yelled at him something to the effect, "Can't you make anything" and sat him the last five minutes.
Changing point in game was when MU down 8 with like 10 to go. Henry missed a three, Fischer a hook, and Wilson had three or four drives that missed. The whole time, Georgetown did not score. Then Cohen fouled on three pointer, up by 12. Very poor possessions and that was it. Henry continues to shoot threes and probably around 20% for the year.
Again, MU won the turnover war big time, but lost the game just like SH.
Scoreboard said MU missed 9 free throws and Georgetown went 22 for 23. Impressive, but 9 point difference.
DSR had last 12 Georgetown points.
Henry has the skill set, you can see it in a kid his size. But his defense was horrible, that Derrickson killed him in first half and was so much stronger physically. He continues to struggle, but you can see potential in his size and ability.
Last thing, some may get on Carter, but he was the only vocal one calling out his teammates, urging them on like a mad man, especially in first half. Didn't know if any of it was caught on camera. Good for him.
Thanks for these interesting observations, nyg. I agree wholeheartedly about the turning point. When GT got that 4-point play, I said, "Man, we had about 1,000 chances to get within 6 when we were playing some pretty solid D but we just couldn't get the hoop. And now we're down 12 ... just like that."
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Our defense is an issue. We have given up 40 &'49 points in the first halves of conference. And would have given up more in GTown second half but we turned them over. Wonder if the defense should focus on steals and creating transition baskets going forward as our half court defense is weak.
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Our defense is an issue. We have given up 40 &'49 points in the first halves of conference. And would have given up more in GTown second half but we turned them over. Wonder if the defense should focus on steals and creating transition baskets going forward as our half court defense is weak.
Yes they should.
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Thanks for these interesting observations, nyg. I agree wholeheartedly about the turning point. When GT got that 4-point play, I said, "Man, we had about 1,000 chances to get within 6 when we were playing some pretty solid D but we just couldn't get the hoop. And now we're down 12 ... just like that."
Second half defense was excellent. Got boards, created turnovers, and made stops. Had our offense been just okay we would have beat them clean going away. But too many missed two-footers, too many wasted offensive possessions, too many out of rhythm forced shots, and too many missed free throws to make a comeback.
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4-14, like last year, may be realistic.
We didn't have a NBA lottery pick last year. 4-14 would be shameful.
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We didn't have a NBA lottery pick last year. 4-14 would be shameful.
We don't have one this year either.
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We don't have one this year either.
Lol. You're on a roll tonight.
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Kinda surprised people here are mentioning the S&C coach like that's the issue. Sandy, Duane, and JJJ have all improved, but they just don't have the frame to be Deonte, and it probably wouldn't help their game. I don't know how Luke has changed since he got here, but having an injured shoulder + surgery more than likely affected what he could do in the weight room.
There's a video on MU's Youtube channel where they get into what MU does in the weight room, and the focus is on increasing power, aka weight lifted + speed. Their emphasis seems to be on Olympic type lifts. As an outsider that seems like the right focus for basketball, and strength + speed under the bar doesn't necessarily translate to size, especially when you're conditioning as hard as they are.
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I have been down in the weight room and seen the guys working out. Everyone on the team has put on muscle. Sandy and JJJ are both up to 200. They were bean poles to start with so progress comes over time. Hard to put on muscle and keep on weight during season.
I never thought Dekker would transform his body like he did so quickly, so it's definitely possible:
(http://i.imgur.com/glMXS3l.png)
Left: Freshman. Right: summer before Junior year
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Missed bunnies was the difference in this game. Gotta believe those will fall more in the future. Thought Wojo did a good job keeping the boys' heads in the game. Loved the defensive adjustment in the second half. Nuetralized DSR for the first 38 minutes of the game. A lot of good things in this loss. Make some more bunnies and we win.
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I never thought Dekker would transform his body like he did so quickly, so it's definitely possible:
(http://i.imgur.com/glMXS3l.png)
Left: Freshman. Right: summer before Junior year
Two words. Steroids and HGH.
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Missed bunnies was the difference in this game. Gotta believe those will fall more in the future. Thought Wojo did a good job keeping the boys' heads in the game. Loved the defensive adjustment in the second half. Nuetralized DSR for the first 38 minutes of the game. A lot of good things in this loss. Make some more bunnies and we win.
It is all about adjustments. Does the coach talk to the assistants during in game? Does coach "K" talk it over with his assistants during the game?
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Two big keys.
When GTown begged us to take the lead in the second half, we puked on our shoes.
We let DSR wake up and score 12 points in the last two minutes of the game.
This game was winnable.
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My comment is on strength and conditioning only. I just don't see an improvement in the physique and strength from the returning guys.
It's the frames. Sandy could lift weights continuously and he will never look like Jae or DJO.
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Agree with nyg regarding HE shooting three's. He still thinks he is in HS. He has no business playing out there and he can't make them. Get near the basket and stop playing the perimeter. He is not using his size playing outside.
Someone said it in another thread, but he needs to be used as a stretch 4. Mid range is where he can make his shots.
I also don't understand all the complaining about his game. Even McD AAs are inconsistent. Were people expecting a 20/15 guy?
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Our second half yesterday was no better than our first half vs SH. I saw little to no improvement honestly. And if GU hadn't gone ice cold in the second half this would've been a 20+ point loss. I didn't jump off the bridge after SH, but the reality is we're not good right now and our ceiling is really low.
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Someone said it in another thread, but he needs to be used as a stretch 4. Mid range is where he can make his shots.
I also don't understand all the complaining about his game. Even McD AAs are inconsistent. Were people expecting a 20/15 guy?
Probably more that we need him to be a 20/15 guy right now, and the first couple conference games have been disappointing, as the points not achieved on Henry's 22 misses were more than enough in each game to make up the margin of defeat.
Henry's playing young, just like much of our team. My biggest disappointment after two conference games is that he is shooting below 25% from the floor and still averaging 13 ppg. If your shots aren't falling, maybe it's time to be willing to defer more. I fully understand that probably isn't in his DNA.
What we're seeing is similar to the complaints about Carlino last year when he shot poorly. Takes too many shots, can't defend, should just give up the ball. The problem for Hank right now is he's had two of those games back to back and they are arguably the two most important games of the season.
Me personally, I'm okay with most of his game. Rebounding is very good, capable of making some highlight reel plays, and many of his shots inside the arc are good looks that just aren't falling.
My main problem is he shoots the three way too much for my liking, and almost never in flow of the offense. Usually, when he takes a three, the ball comes to him, you see him hesitate for a second, think about his options, then shoot the three. Great three point shooters don't hesitate, they catch and fire. If he can't do that, he should be moving the ball on, because we're doing a terrible job of getting those long rebounds on threes, especially with him not in position under the hoop.
Otherwise...this team is what it is. The cupcake schedule coupled with wins over some teams that were overrated in the preseason probably elevated expectations a bit much. I still believe we'll see this team improve as the year goes on. I still think we can win 8-10 in league and get to the NIT, and don't think a late run is impossible if these guys do improve. This start sucks, but if we can get to 3-5 (looking at the schedule it's very doable), there are winnable games down the stretch.
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Someone said it in another thread, but he needs to be used as a stretch 4. Mid range is where he can make his shots.
I also don't understand all the complaining about his game. Even McD AAs are inconsistent. Were people expecting a 20/15 guy?
I can't speak to what "people" were expecting, only this one particular people that is me.
I actually had fairly low expectations. I had never seen him play one second before I watched the Belmont game, and I am a skeptic at heart so I thought he was probably overhyped.
I then watched each of our games and attended the Brooklyn event in person. And, yes, I was generally impressed with his offensive versatility and basketball IQ. By the end of November, I wasn't expecting 20 and 15 but I was expecting 16 and 10, and he mostly has delivered.
I like to think I'm not "complaining about his game," just discussing my observations. Saying he needs to improve his man-to-man defense, isn't effective as a wing in our zone defense and should probably be taking fewer 3s is not "complaining." Every player can improve -- Jordan was still improving into his 30s -- and I expect Henry will.
I think most of our fellow Scoopers do similar "complaining." We want Henry to do well and the team to succeed. Just because we discuss what we see doesn't mean we are bitchin'.
Now, I grant you that some are, but I think they are in the distinct minority. I hope so, anyway.
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Agree with nyg regarding HE shooting three's. He still thinks he is in HS. He has no business playing out there and he can't make them. Get near the basket and stop playing the perimeter. He is not using his size playing outside.
It's hard not to think that some of that comes from his wanting to "display" his versatility
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I can't speak to what "people" were expecting, only this one particular people that is me.
I actually had fairly low expectations. I had never seen him play one second before I watched the Belmont game, and I am a skeptic at heart so I thought he was probably overhyped.
I then watched each of our games and attended the Brooklyn event in person. And, yes, I was generally impressed with his offensive versatility and basketball IQ. By the end of November, I wasn't expecting 20 and 15 but I was expecting 16 and 10, and he mostly has delivered.
I like to think I'm not "complaining about his game," just discussing my observations. Saying he needs to improve his man-to-man defense, isn't effective as a wing in our zone defense and should probably be taking fewer 3s is not "complaining." Every player can improve -- Jordan was still improving into his 30s -- and I expect Henry will.
I think most of our fellow Scoopers do similar "complaining." We want Henry to do well and the team to succeed. Just because we discuss what we see doesn't mean we are bitchin'.
Now, I grant you that some are, but I think they are in the distinct minority. I hope so, anyway.
No you and I are on the same page. There are just other people saying "he's not playing like a AA" or "HE is overrated" and it annoys me. I expected him to be a freshman with growing pains.
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According to Pomeroy, MU is the lowest ranked offense in conference play. Lowest in eFG%, 2P%, but fastest in tempo. Defensively, MU is sixth (106.7), #1 in steal percent and #2 in turnover rate. (Butler's defensive efficiency is a whopping (124.5)). Again, only two games but MU has at least played two halves of decent defense in league play, despite playing no halves of offense.
Wojo's style of play is finesse-driven on offense and defense. That is how he is recruiting. The team is green and immature. This is an urban, physical league in contrast, not the old ACC. Until these guys mature and grow, both physically and mentally, there will be ups and downs. The number one thing now is that MU is too predictable on offense, opponents have been able target and out physical our strengths, and we have guys trying to make things happen on their own. MU needs to find their team identity pretty quickly, unfortunately.
MU has the talent, but they need to learn, adjust and adapt--or die. Wojo in his presser after the game was at a loss of why they were not ready to start, and I know he was frustrated after a tough conference start, but it is time for his leadership and answers. PC is another tough one upcoming with a quick turnaround. This league is brutal and unforgiving, especially on a young, inexperienced roster.
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MU has the talent, but they need to learn, adjust and adapt--or die. Wojo in his presser after the game was at a loss of why they were not ready to start, and I know he was frustrated after a tough conference start, but it is time for his leadership and answers. PC is another tough one upcoming with a quick turnaround. This league is brutal and unforgiving, especially on a young, inexperienced roster.
I am very skeptical that PC is going to be a positive outcome.
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I am very skeptical that PC is going to be a positive outcome.
I am too, but I'm curious if playing a much smaller providence roster will allow us to utilize more of our strengths. Providence isn't as good as their record suggests IMHO
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Wojo's style of play is finesse-driven on offense and defense. That is how he is recruiting.
You've hit the root of my largest concern. Its becoming clear that this will be another rebuilding year. While I, like most, am impatient I can live with another rebuilding year if they'll be a payoff. We need to view Buzz's departure almost as if he was fired for non-performance. If you look at it that way (which is similar to what Cooley encountered at Providence) then a team isn't competitive until its 3rd season. But Cooley built a tough urban team that can win in the BE. Its not always about getting the highest rated players, Buzz showed us that. Duke can win with a certain style of player because they are getting the top 5-10 nationally of that style. MU will never recruit at that level. So will the style of players Wojo wants to recruit be able to win in this knife fight style league. I'm a little worried.
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I am too, but I'm curious if playing a much smaller providence roster will allow us to utilize more of our strengths. Providence isn't as good as their record suggests IMHO
Here's hoping, because in Charlotte our MU group has scheduled a co-watching party with the Providence group. So there will be much banter and trash-talking ... and I'm pretty sure we Warriors will be on the receiving end.
I have been reading for at least a month now that PC isn't as good as its record suggests. Maybe one of these days, that will be proven!
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HE is 16/10 guy right now. He shoots more than anyone on this team by far. He is shooting 42% from the floor and 26% from 3. If HE is a 'good' 3 point shooter as some have called him--he needs to make more or take less of them. His D is bad. Wojo will continue to allow HE to do what he wants, so this years team needs him for that reason--regardless of incoming expectaions.
IMO, his baseline play from inside of 15' is where he is most dominant.
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I wonder if the two bigs give the Warriors their most competitive line-up. That is, does the big line-up have enough speed and efficiency to be competitive in the Big East? As correctly underlined by many, the BE is a physical, fast, urban league that leans heavy on guards.
Or, said in another way, should Coach Wojo more tightly define the roles of his two bigs?
I don't pretend to know the answer. However, the second half run, keyed by the defence, only had one of the two bigs in the game. Once the second big came back into the game, the Warriors went flat.
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You've hit the root of my largest concern. Its becoming clear that this will be another rebuilding year. While I, like most, am impatient I can live with another rebuilding year if they'll be a payoff. We need to view Buzz's departure almost as if he was fired for non-performance. If you look at it that way (which is similar to what Cooley encountered at Providence) then a team isn't competitive until its 3rd season. But Cooley built a tough urban team that can win in the BE. Its not always about getting the highest rated players, Buzz showed us that. Duke can win with a certain style of player because they are getting the top 5-10 nationally of that style. MU will never recruit at that level. So will the style of players Wojo wants to recruit be able to win in this knife fight style league. I'm a little worried.
Part of this IMO is a body-type issue. I mentioned this after Seton Hall, but we have a lot of slender players. Some of whom Wojo inherited no doubt. Duane, JJJ and Juan were all tough, urban players, but they are slight. Luke, Sandy and Haanif aren't exactly bulky either.
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Wojo's presser from yesterday.
http://youtu.be/xeTe_RSLDH8
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I can't speak to what "people" were expecting, only this one particular people that is me.
I actually had fairly low expectations. I had never seen him play one second before I watched the Belmont game, and I am a skeptic at heart so I thought he was probably overhyped.
I then watched each of our games and attended the Brooklyn event in person. And, yes, I was generally impressed with his offensive versatility and basketball IQ. By the end of November, I wasn't expecting 20 and 15 but I was expecting 16 and 10, and he mostly has delivered.
I like to think I'm not "complaining about his game," just discussing my observations. Saying he needs to improve his man-to-man defense, isn't effective as a wing in our zone defense and should probably be taking fewer 3s is not "complaining." Every player can improve -- Jordan was still improving into his 30s -- and I expect Henry will.
I think most of our fellow Scoopers do similar "complaining." We want Henry to do well and the team to succeed. Just because we discuss what we see doesn't mean we are bitchin'.
Now, I grant you that some are, but I think they are in the distinct minority. I hope so, anyway.
+1
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Lol. You're on a roll tonight.
Is he wrong? I guess it only takes one team to prove he is wrong, but right now...is he wrong?
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Is he wrong? I guess it only takes one team to prove he is wrong, but right now...is he wrong?
Considering I have yet to see any mock draft out there that has him anywhere outside of a top 10 pick, have seen multiple where he's approaching a top 5 pick, have heard multiple stories of NBA scouts drooling over him this season, and there have been 20+ NBA scouts in the stands of multiple games with him being the main reason, yes, he is wrong.
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Considering I have yet to see any mock draft out there that has him anywhere outside of a top 10 pick, have seen multiple where he's approaching a top 5 pick, have heard multiple stories of NBA scouts drooling over him this season, and there have been 20+ NBA scouts in the stands of multiple games with him being the main reason, yes, he is wrong.
We will see if that changes as more body of work comes in, who actually declares, etc. Many of those projections are like early season rankings, they just don't mean much right now. Later, sure, but not right now.
Most have Henry above Diamond Stone right now....do you think that will change? Most have Valentine behind Henry, do you think that will change.
Just to note, NBA Draft Net has him not as a lottery pick and down at 22. DraftExpress hasn't updated anything since Dec 18th. Walter group does not have him as a lottery pick and they haven't updated since Dec. 8th. Others have him in. We'll see. I hope he has the year to make it happen. Really like the kid, he's working hard, but with my eyes sure looks like he needs strength, a lot of work on his outside shot and on defense. Has to get quicker, more explosive as well.
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Don't pay much attention to NBA Draft Net. Not considered a real reliable site.
When DraftExpress updates, that will give you a clearer picture. Very connected site and is usually pretty accurate.
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The Georgetown game was the first time I thought Henry might not go pro, because he was physically getting beaten up. Having an off shooting game is not going to effect Henry's decision, but he may not be mentally willing to take the daily beating in the NBA.
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Don't pay much attention to NBA Draft Net. Not considered a real reliable site.
When DraftExpress updates, that will give you a clearer picture. Very connected site and is usually pretty accurate.
I know them well. Good friend of mine is a scout for them and I've interviewed the owner for Cracked Sidewalks on several occasions. He's still shaking his head over Vander's decision......that's for you MU82. ;)
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I really liked seeing how Cohen attacked the rim a few times. 3 dunks in one game....haven't seen that since Wade?? Glad to see him avoid settling for 3's.
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I thought Wally gave us some toughness on defense and liked his offensive contribution
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I am too, but I'm curious if playing a much smaller providence roster will allow us to utilize more of our strengths. Providence isn't as good as their record suggests IMHO
Neither are we.
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I know them well. Good friend of mine is a scout for them and I've interviewed the owner for Cracked Sidewalks on several occasions. He's still shaking his head over Vander's decision......that's for you MU82. ;)
A scout for Draftexpress.com? Really? Now there's a big job. What do they give him, a premium sport's package and control of the clicker? Hilarious.
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Need to play with a little fire right out of the gate. I don't know why this isn't happening, seems counter to what Wojo wants the culture to be. I see a general lack of toughness, how do you remedy that? I don't know if you can teach that?
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Wojo acts like a hard-ass and wants their identity to be a tough/competitive team but so far in this young Big East season it is apparent that our opponents are much tougher, both physically and mentally. And that is on the coach and his approach to preparing the team. Wojo, the staff and the players need to man the F up.
Just win baby.
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Wojo acts like a hard-ass and wants their identity to be a tough/competitive team but so far in this young Big East season it is apparent that our opponents are much tougher, both physically and mentally. And that is on the coach and his approach to preparing the team. Wojo, the staff and the players need to man the F up.
Just win baby.
I thought you died, then you had to enter Jerrah Jones body. Damn it!!!
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2 Big East games...two good halves and two bad halves. I see it that simply....put two good halves together....tough, consistent 40 minutes of basketball and we will be fine. Young teams and coaches tend to be inconsistent. The bad halves bring out the doom reactions...the good halves should give us some hope...still lots of basketball left in this season.
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Wojo is quickly learning the difference between ACC tough and BEAST tough. Soon he'll stop walking past 6'7 240-250 pounders during his recruiting visits.
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Or muscular JUCO's with chips on their shoulders and attitudes.
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Wojo is quickly learning the difference between ACC tough and BEAST tough. Soon he'll stop walking past 6'7 240-250 pounders during his recruiting visits.
Bingo! Absolutely...made them look soft as butter. There is no 3rd bruiser up front.
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Wojo acts like a hard-ass and wants their identity to be a tough/competitive team but so far in this young Big East season it is apparent that our opponents are much tougher, both physically and mentally. And that is on the coach and his approach to preparing the team. Wojo, the staff and the players need to man the F up.
Just win baby.
This is nuts....you are still in the foundational phase of his program. Go sit down. They are fine. They are only behind in the physical tough part that even took Buzz Williams two or three years to instill in his program as I am sure it took even Tom Izzo at MSU....its a process.
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I wonder if the two bigs give the Warriors their most competitive line-up. That is, does the big line-up have enough speed and efficiency to be competitive in the Big East? As correctly underlined by many, the BE is a physical, fast, urban league that leans heavy on guards.
Or, said in another way, should Coach Wojo more tightly define the roles of his two bigs?
I don't pretend to know the answer. However, the second half run, keyed by the defence, only had one of the two bigs in the game. Once the second big came back into the game, the Warriors went flat.
Define "Urban?" Please...
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Bingo! Absolutely...made them look soft as butter. There is no bruiser up front.
FIFY
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No you and I are on the same page. There are just other people saying "he's not playing like a AA" or "HE is overrated" and it annoys me. I expected him to be a freshman with growing pains.
Not as the #2 rated PF in the entire country you didn't...He has had 10 non conference games. Kentucky even looked at him. In fact it came down to either here or there. He has to step up ...quickly or he will be looked at as such.
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Watch some tape of Sandy from last season. Noticeably stronger this year.
Um.....no he's not... I agree with the quote. No he is not. None of them are.
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For the first time in his life, Henry is facing defenders as big as he is, as quick as he is, stronger than he is, more physical than he is. There is going to be an adjustment. It isn't easy right now. I expect that he will adjust and get better. But this, too, was predictable. The preseason expectations from so many MU fans for this kid and this team were simply unrealistic.
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I know them well. Good friend of mine is a scout for them and I've interviewed the owner for Cracked Sidewalks on several occasions. He's still shaking his head over Vander's decision......that's for you MU82. ;)
Uh ... thanks?
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For the first time in his life, Henry is facing defenders as big as he is, as quick as he is, stronger than he is, more physical than he is. There is going to be an adjustment. It isn't easy right now. I expect that he will adjust and get better. But this, too, was predictable. The preseason expectations from so many MU fans for this kid and this team were simply unrealistic.
My expectations were a lot less than many. I felt his trajectory was a four year player and Big East Player of the Year as a senior. Still feel that is about right.
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if henry is for sure one and done i have to question what was even the point on wasting 2 scholarships on him when our team sucks anyway. seems like a waste
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if henry is for sure one and done i have to question what was even the point on wasting 2 scholarships on him when our team sucks anyway. seems like a waste
Sure we shouldn't call you "rodentfan 14"?
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Sure we shouldn't call you "rodentfan 14"?
Ha! Exactly.
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Not as the #2 rated PF in the entire country you didn't...He has had 10 non conference games. Kentucky even looked at him. In fact it came down to either here or there. He has to step up ...quickly or he will be looked at as such.
Actually yes I do. You apparently haven't seen that a number of Kentucky freshmen struggle too. If you have different expectations, that's not Henry's problem.
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Sure we shouldn't call you "rodentfan 14"?
cute....but didn't respond to my thought at all.
hopefully henry stays, but his shot selection certainly looks like he has his mind on another level. with how bad this team is right now, i'd rather have another 4 year freshman. might as well play for the future as this looks like yet another rebuilding year
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cute....but didn't respond to my thought at all.
hopefully henry stays, but his shot selection certainly looks like he has his mind on another level. with how bad this team is right now, i'd rather have another 4 year freshman. might as well play for the future as this looks like yet another rebuilding year
You are correct Henry is all about Henry. When he focuses on the team he will actually become a much better player.
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You are correct Henry is all about Henry.
Ridiculous statement. A freshman with poor shot selection doesn't mean selfish.
I can't believe some of the stuff I read here.
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Just back from game, had great seats behind bench.
. Last thing, some may get on Carter, but he was the only vocal one calling out his teammates, urging them on like a mad man, especially in first half. Didn't know if any of it was caught on camera. Good for him.
I seen that, and though Finally maybe a glint of some type of leadership!
Thanks for Posting.
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Ridiculous statement. A freshman with poor shot selection doesn't mean selfish.
I can't believe some of the stuff I read here.
He is one of the more selfish players I have seen in some time. He played the same way before college. Everyone in the house knows he is going to shoot the minute he gets the ball. That is one of the reasons his production has been poor against the better teams.
He is using our program as an attempt to showcase for himself, that is why he came here. I don't attribute it to freshman growing pains.
Wojo needs to grow a set of cajones and treat him the same way he treats JJJ. Bench him when he misses a shot.
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Define "Urban?" Please...
Untraditional
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He is one of the more selfish players I have seen in some time. He played the same way before college. Everyone in the house knows he is going to shoot the minute he gets the ball. That is one of the reasons his production has been poor against the better teams.
He is using our program as an attempt to showcase for himself, that is why he came here. I don't attribute it to freshman growing pains.
Wojo needs to grow a set of cajones and treat him the same way he treats JJJ. Bench him when he misses a shot.
Doubling down on ridiculousness.
Maybe Wojo should treat him differently, but I don't see much evidence that he doesn't care about the team and is all about Henry.
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Doubling down on ridiculousness.
Maybe Wojo should treat him differently, but I don't see much evidence that he doesn't care about the team and is all about Henry.
Next game carefully watch how many times he looks for an open man before shooting. Seriously there are guys wide open on the wings almost every time he forces some of his silly shots. He appears to me the type of kid who doesn't care if we lose as long as he got "his". Wojo just got his six year deal so he should actually be a lot more of disciplinarian with this kid. It will earn him a thousand times more credibly than going on the radio with Homer and ripping Fischer.
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Next game carefully watch how many times he looks for an open man before shooting. Seriously there are guys wide open on the wings almost every time he forces some of his silly shots. He appears to me the type of kid who doesn't care if we lose as long as he got "his". Wojo just got his six year deal so he should actually be a lot more of disciplinarian with this kid. It will earn him a thousand times more credibly than going on the radio with Homer and ripping Fischer.
What did Wojo say about Fischer? Assuming you don't have a photographic memory, a reasonable paraphrase will do.
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He appears to me the type of kid who doesn't care if we lose as long as he got "his".
lol
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He is one of the more selfish players I have seen in some time. He played the same way before college. Everyone in the house knows he is going to shoot the minute he gets the ball. That is one of the reasons his production has been poor against the better teams.
He is using our program as an attempt to showcase for himself, that is why he came here. I don't attribute it to freshman growing pains.
Wojo needs to grow a set of cajones and treat him the same way he treats JJJ. Bench him when he misses a shot.
I would not bench him for missing a shot. I would sit his ass down with all is ill advised three point shooting.
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Or, said in another way, should Coach Wojo more tightly define the roles of his two bigs?
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Spot-on Barn.
I like Luke cutting or on the pick and roll, or back to the basket from the post when his defender has one foul in the first half or 3 + fouls in the 2nd half, or when his defender is smaller/weaker.
I like Henry facing the basket from 15 feet in. He should be free to do whatever he can from that position. Beyond 15 feet - pass and re-postion. Back to the basket - pass and re-position.
We need more pick and roll, and we need more guys positioned on the weak side base line for the relief pass when the bigs get doubled.
And we need more drive & dish.
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He is one of the more selfish players I have seen in some time. He played the same way before college. Everyone in the house knows he is going to shoot the minute he gets the ball. That is one of the reasons his production has been poor against the better teams.
He is using our program as an attempt to showcase for himself, that is why he came here. I don't attribute it to freshman growing pains.
Wojo needs to grow a set of cajones and treat him the same way he treats JJJ. Bench him when he misses a shot.
Slow down NY. He's a freshman. Passing requires understanding the movements of 9 other players. Shooting or driving requires understanding self and possibly the defender. These are acquired skills that he's never had to learn yet. Problem is, the offense leaves Henry stranded quite often, with no-one to kick to if he drives and no secondary cutter to get the ball when Henry is doubled. I hope Wojo is seeing this. We need Henry to continue learning... and Wojo to tweak a few things so he has option.
No assassination attempts yet, please!
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He is one of the more selfish players I have seen in some time. He played the same way before college. Everyone in the house knows he is going to shoot the minute he gets the ball. That is one of the reasons his production has been poor against the better teams.
He is using our program as an attempt to showcase for himself, that is why he came here. I don't attribute it to freshman growing pains.
Wojo needs to grow a set of cajones and treat him the same way he treats JJJ. Bench him when he misses a shot.
Your JJJ obsession is bordering Ners-levels
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Slow down NY. He's a freshman. Passing requires understanding the movements of 9 other players. Shooting or driving requires understanding self and possibly the defender. These are acquired skills that he's never had to learn yet. Problem is, the offense leaves Henry stranded quite often, with no-one to kick to if he drives and no secondary cutter to get the ball when Henry is doubled. I hope Wojo is seeing this. We need Henry to continue learning... and Wojo to tweak a few things so he has option.
Exactly. Especially since he went to a high school where he was pretty much the entire offense. MU Fan in NY is complaining that he did the same thing in high school. Well that's because he had to. It's frickin' Rice Lake!!!
I have absolutely no problem with Wojo defining his role better. I have no problem with Wojo sitting him down at times and talking to him about bad shots. That doesn't mean he is a selfish player or only looking out for himself. Nothing I have heard about him or his attitude indicates that is the case. Not even close.
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Exactly. Especially since he went to a high school where he was pretty much the entire offense. MU Fan in NY is complaining that he did the same thing in high school. Well that's because he had to. It's frickin' Rice Lake!!!
I have absolutely no problem with Wojo defining his role better. I have no problem with Wojo sitting him down at times and talking to him about bad shots. That doesn't mean he is a selfish player or only looking out for himself. Nothing I have heard about him or his attitude indicates that is the case. Not even close.
That's because this really has nothing to do with Henry. This is MUNY's clear obsession with JJJ and his interpretation of unfair treatment of JJJ
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That's because this really has nothing to do with Henry. This is MUNY's clear obsession with JJJ and his interpretation of unfair treatment of JJJ
What I am saying is what is good for the goose is good for the gander. JJJ was a highly touted recruit with exceptional skills. Nonetheless, he made bad decisions and found his way to the bench . JJJ is now making much better decisions and playing within the structure the coach has devised. I think Henry deserves similar treatment. He has terrible shot selection, makes a lot of bad choices and it is my point of view that he is showcasing himself at the expense of the team. Coach Wojo is willing to point the finger of blame at everyone else on the team except Henry, who is sacrosanct.
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What I am saying is what is good for the goose is good for the gander. JJJ was a highly touted recruit with exceptional skills. Nonetheless, he made bad decisions and found his way to the bench . JJJ is now making much better decisions and playing within the structure the coach has devised. I think Henry deserves similar treatment. He has terrible shot selection, makes a lot of bad choices and it is my point of view that he is showcasing himself at the expense of the team. Coach Wojo is willing to point the finger of blame at everyone else on the team except Henry, who is sacrosanct.
I realize i'm like the 5th person to request this....but can you provide the instances where Wojo points the finger of blame at people on the team and specifically Luke?
BTW - i'm hoping you are referring to his post GT interview with Homer where he says Luke 'needs to play better and is capable of playing better' because if that is "ripping into" Luke i feel really bad for anyone that's had to give you a performance review.
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I do not think Ellenson is a selfish player. In fact I do not think MU utilizes him enough. The three point shots, outside of the fact they did not go in, generally are good shots. He needs to take more 5 to 15th foot shots and probably should be shooting 5 more times a game. Utilizing him more will make things easier for Fischer. I see his drives to the basket as more of a problem than his three point shooting. He misses a lot of drives and part of that is he gets hit and refs do not give him the foul. It also puts him at risk for an offensive foul. Wojo coaches his players not to foul and as a consequence defense can be less aggressive. Until MU designs it offense to take good three point shots the inside game is going to suffer as the other teams are going to pack it in. The was the whole Derrick Wilson argument and the problem the last two games still exists.
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What I am saying is what is good for the goose is good for the gander. JJJ was a highly touted recruit with exceptional skills. Nonetheless, he made bad decisions and found his way to the bench . JJJ is now making much better decisions and playing within the structure the coach has devised. I think Henry deserves similar treatment. He has terrible shot selection, makes a lot of bad choices and it is my point of view that he is showcasing himself at the expense of the team. Coach Wojo is willing to point the finger of blame at everyone else on the team except Henry, who is sacrosanct.
I don't think JJJ has exceptional skills. He's not touted as anything close to an NBA draft pick much less a lottery pick. And I trust that Wojo knows how to instruct and motivate his players much more than you or I do.
And regardless, what does Wojo's handling of JJJ have to do with Henry being "selfish" in your mind?
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You are correct Henry is all about Henry. When he focuses on the team he will actually become a much better player.
Thanks Tex
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Wojo is quickly learning the difference between ACC tough and BEAST tough. Soon he'll stop walking past 6'7 240-250 pounders during his recruiting visits.
Someone mentioned this elsewhere, but I think this is a HUGE problem for the Big East. Look at the difference in officiating between November/December and the start of conference play. Not just against the cupcakes, but all around. Physical play was discouraged. Charges were down as refs were calling more blocks, especially when players weren't well established. When Luke and Henry were swatted at in the post, fouls were called and they went to the line.
Suddenly, conference play starts and all that ends. Refs go back to allowing the guys to play. We get whistled for 6 charges in one game, maybe 2 of which would have been charges a week earlier. Big men are constantly harassing us down low with no fouls being called. This is not a Marquette problem, this is a Big East problem, and frankly, if this league has any designs on long-term success, it needs to be fixed.
This goes back to the Old Big East. We have always had that rough and tumble, physical league that allows teams to play, looks the other way for fouls, and is overly generous to the defense. I truly think that come March, this is a huge negative. When these teams get into tournament play, they will be expecting to get away with stuff that has been allowed for 3 months. They will figure they can slide in late and draw a charge, not get called when they body a guy up on defense, and generally throw themselves around while the refs inhale their whistles. Suddenly tourney time comes and those are all fouls, you end up with 2-3 key players in foul trouble, and you're packing your bags.
I wish our league had refs that called games more like the ACC. I have a feeling it'd be far more valuable come March when games really matter.
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I wish our league had refs that called games more like the ACC. I have a feeling it'd be far more valuable come March when games really matter.
The league made a huge mistake when it hired Cahill to select the officials.
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What I am saying is what is good for the goose is good for the gander. JJJ was a highly touted recruit with exceptional skills. Nonetheless, he made bad decisions and found his way to the bench . JJJ is now making much better decisions and playing within the structure the coach has devised. I think Henry deserves similar treatment. He has terrible shot selection, makes a lot of bad choices and it is my point of view that he is showcasing himself at the expense of the team. Coach Wojo is willing to point the finger of blame at everyone else on the team except Henry, who is sacrosanct.
For the sake of discussion, let's assume your arguments about decision-making, shot selection and bad choices are correct. [For the record, I don't think they are, but I'll indulge you for discussion's sake.]
Throughout JJJ's career, we have always had other guys capable of playing the 2/3, so benching him for mistakes has always been a viable option.
Henry, on the other hand, is our best option - our only true option - at the 4. If Wojo benches him, who will get max minutes at the 4? Wally? Sandy? JJJ?
You treat players the same if the circumstances are the same. If the circumstances are different, you adjust accordingly.
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One thing that stood out
MU 10 assists
GT 20 assists (IIRC)
MU had a couple of really nice possessions when they used quick ball movement around the perimeter. Not enough of a coach to know why that does not happen more frequently.
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The league made a huge mistake when it hired Cahill to select the officials.
I think this is a very important point and why the BIG EAST never goes far in the tournament. We play rough and tumble all season and then in the tournament with run off the mill refs. it's time to pack up and go home.
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For the sake of discussion, let's assume your arguments about decision-making, shot selection and bad choices are correct. [For the record, I don't think they are, but I'll indulge you for discussion's sake.]
Throughout JJJ's career, we have always had other guys capable of playing the 2/3, so benching him for mistakes has always been a viable option.
Henry, on the other hand, is our best option - our only true option - at the 4. If Wojo benches him, who will get max minutes at the 4? Wally? Sandy? JJJ?
You treat players the same if the circumstances are the same. If the circumstances are different, you adjust accordingly.
Oooo nooo, Gooo ... you beat me to this! I was going to make the exact same point.
I also was going echo Sultan's point about JJJ being nowhere near as highly thought of as Henry -- not even close -- so equal treatment is a quaint but dopey notion. You show me a coach who says he truly treats all of his players equally, and I'll show you a coach who is a liar.
MarqNY also refuses to state what Wojo said on-air to Homer about Luke that constitutes "ripping." I didn't hear it, but nagin said in a post a little while ago that Wojo simply said Luke "needs to play better and is capable of playing better." Given that MarqNY won't address specifics but keeps throwing out the "rip" line, I assume nagin is correct and MarqNY is misrepresenting Wojo's words and intent.
Pretty pathetic, MarqNY. Reminds me of the desperation heaves the folks on our politics board constantly make in their lame efforts to prove they are right.
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So is MarqNY the 2nd incarnation of Tex or Ners?
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Someone mentioned this elsewhere, but I think this is a HUGE problem for the Big East. Look at the difference in officiating between November/December and the start of conference play. Not just against the cupcakes, but all around. Physical play was discouraged. Charges were down as refs were calling more blocks, especially when players weren't well established. When Luke and Henry were swatted at in the post, fouls were called and they went to the line.
Suddenly, conference play starts and all that ends. Refs go back to allowing the guys to play. We get whistled for 6 charges in one game, maybe 2 of which would have been charges a week earlier. Big men are constantly harassing us down low with no fouls being called. This is not a Marquette problem, this is a Big East problem, and frankly, if this league has any designs on long-term success, it needs to be fixed.
This goes back to the Old Big East. We have always had that rough and tumble, physical league that allows teams to play, looks the other way for fouls, and is overly generous to the defense. I truly think that come March, this is a huge negative. When these teams get into tournament play, they will be expecting to get away with stuff that has been allowed for 3 months. They will figure they can slide in late and draw a charge, not get called when they body a guy up on defense, and generally throw themselves around while the refs inhale their whistles. Suddenly tourney time comes and those are all fouls, you end up with 2-3 key players in foul trouble, and you're packing your bags.
I wish our league had refs that called games more like the ACC. I have a feeling it'd be far more valuable come March when games really matter.
Interesting dichotomy between marketing and post season performance. Big East markets and prides itself on tough, physical basketball but I agree in the post season that is generally a detriment. I thought the officiating was good and even handed in the Georgetown game but they were definitely calling that game different than anything we saw in the non-conference. So our non-conference schedule hurt us for Big East play and Big East play hurts everyone for the tournament.....awesome.
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So is MarqNY the 2nd incarnation of Tex or Ners?
Tex always showed some self-control, as we know Ners was incapable, so....
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MU is not going to make the dance this year. Right now they are not a good team and their McDonald All American is not playing like one. It's gonna be another long season, as the Big Eadt has a lot of good teams that we just do not match up against right now.
Probably not, but I am not giving up 2 games into the season. Still a lot of ball to be played, and until they hit the 9 loss mark in the BE, I am not losing hope.
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You do not bench a potential one & done, if you want to recruit more one & dones.
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You do not bench a potential one & done, if you want to recruit more one & dones.
I am not saying to nail him to the bench a la JJJ. Rather , pull him out for a series to show some discipline. Then put him back in . In the greater scheme of things that is not a big deal .
Al never coddled Bernard Toone.
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You do not bench a potential one & done, if you want to recruit more one & dones.
+1. Right or wrong, this is the way it is. HE did not come to MU not to sit on the bench. It may be unfortunate, but what Wojo needs to get future players that are similar to HE's hype is to allow HE to do what he wants.
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Someone mentioned this elsewhere, but I think this is a HUGE problem for the Big East. Look at the difference in officiating between November/December and the start of conference play. Not just against the cupcakes, but all around. Physical play was discouraged. Charges were down as refs were calling more blocks, especially when players weren't well established. When Luke and Henry were swatted at in the post, fouls were called and they went to the line.
Suddenly, conference play starts and all that ends. Refs go back to allowing the guys to play. We get whistled for 6 charges in one game, maybe 2 of which would have been charges a week earlier. Big men are constantly harassing us down low with no fouls being called. This is not a Marquette problem, this is a Big East problem, and frankly, if this league has any designs on long-term success, it needs to be fixed.
This goes back to the Old Big East. We have always had that rough and tumble, physical league that allows teams to play, looks the other way for fouls, and is overly generous to the defense. I truly think that come March, this is a huge negative. When these teams get into tournament play, they will be expecting to get away with stuff that has been allowed for 3 months. They will figure they can slide in late and draw a charge, not get called when they body a guy up on defense, and generally throw themselves around while the refs inhale their whistles. Suddenly tourney time comes and those are all fouls, you end up with 2-3 key players in foul trouble, and you're packing your bags.
I wish our league had refs that called games more like the ACC. I have a feeling it'd be far more valuable come March when games really matter.
This is a huge misconception. A pitt fan crunched the numbers and showed that BE teams fouled at the same rate in conference play as they did in the NCAA tournament. There was no increase in foul rate like you would expect if your assumption was true. There was not a difference in terms of people picking up more early fouls or any of that. This oh the BE is too physical in conference and it hurts us in the tournament sounds right but the numbers don't back it up.
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You do not bench a potential one & done, if you want to recruit more one & dones.
I would generally agree with this. However, one must question if his shooting, decision making and interior defense are one and done quality. He has a lot of potential but also a lot to learn.
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What I am saying is what is good for the goose is good for the gander. JJJ was a highly touted recruit with exceptional skills. Nonetheless, he made bad decisions and found his way to the bench . JJJ is now making much better decisions and playing within the structure the coach has devised. I think Henry deserves similar treatment. He has terrible shot selection, makes a lot of bad choices and it is my point of view that he is showcasing himself at the expense of the team. Coach Wojo is willing to point the finger of blame at everyone else on the team except Henry, who is sacrosanct.
Fine. It seems your philosophy has changed. But, you must now admit this. You must state one of 2 things.
1) You were wrong on Wojo last season, or at least support his decision-making therefore you have no problem with his benching JJJ last year and so now must also do the same to Henry.
*or*
2) You were right that Wojo should never have benched JJJ and therefore now shouldn't be benching Henry.
Which is it going to be?
Because if you believe that JJJ shouldn't have been benched last year, but since Wojo did anyway, that he must bench Henry this year - even to the detriment of the team - then you're just a petty person with a VERY clear bias.
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Probably not, but I am not giving up 2 games into the season. Still a lot of ball to be played, and until they hit the 9 loss mark in the BE, I am not losing hope.
I'm with you. It ain't over 'till it's over.
But even with 9 BE losses, it won't be over until we also lose in the BET. Given all the youth on this team, anything is possible. On the one hand, the young guys could wear down and get worse late in the season...or they could come together just in time for NYC.
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You do not bench a potential one & done, if you want to recruit more one & dones.
You do not bench a potential one & done, if you want to give your team the best chance to win, period.
Any of the mudslingers on the board feel Henry was being too selfish when he took over late in the UW game? nah...didn't think so.
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Fine. It seems your philosophy has changed. But, you must now admit this. You must state one of 2 things.
1) You were wrong on Wojo last season, or at least support his decision-making therefore you have no problem with his benching JJJ last year and so now must also do the same to Henry.
*or*
2) You were right that Wojo should never have benched JJJ and therefore now shouldn't be benching Henry.
Which is it going to be?
Because if you believe that JJJ shouldn't have been benched last year, but since Wojo did anyway, that he must bench Henry this year - even to the detriment of the team - then you're just a petty person with a VERY clear bias.
I would be more along the line of the second half of point 1 as outlined above. The benching of JJJ came with a clear set of missions of how Wojo wanted him to play. As we have seen since then JJJ has been delivering on what Wojo has asked of him. He worked doggedly this summer to improve his shot and his been a model citizen.
I believe Wojo needs to take a similar type of approach with Henry. Focus him on shots in the short to mid range etc. When Henry deviates from that, I would like to see Wojo make a big show of it , just like he does with everyone else, stand up and pull the substitute off the bench to go in for him for a series. Take Henry down a notch, it will be in the best interest of Henry and the team.
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I would be more along the line of the second half of point 1 as outlined above. The benching of JJJ came with a clear set of missions of how Wojo wanted him to play. As we have seen since then JJJ has been delivering on what Wojo has asked of him. He worked doggedly this summer to improve his shot and his been a model citizen.
I believe Wojo needs to take a similar type of approach with Henry. Focus him on shots in the short to mid range etc. When Henry deviates from that, I would like to see Wojo make a big show of it , just like he does with everyone else, stand up and pull the substitute off the bench to go in for him for a series. Take Henry down a notch, it will be in the best interest of Henry and the team.
OK ... and I'll take one more stab at the question you've ignored at least a half-dozen other times ...
Why did you repeatedly and seriously overstate Wojo's comments about Luke in an attempt to make a point about Henry?
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I would be more along the line of the second half of point 1 as outlined above. The benching of JJJ came with a clear set of missions of how Wojo wanted him to play. As we have seen since then JJJ has been delivering on what Wojo has asked of him. He worked doggedly this summer to improve his shot and his been a model citizen.
I believe Wojo needs to take a similar type of approach with Henry. Focus him on shots in the short to mid range etc. When Henry deviates from that, I would like to see Wojo make a big show of it , just like he does with everyone else, stand up and pull the substitute off the bench to go in for him for a series. Take Henry down a notch, it will be in the best interest of Henry and the team.
So you still disagree with Wojo's treatment of JJJ yet you want him to apply that treatment to Henry. Wow.
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So you still disagree with Wojo's treatment of JJJ yet you want him to apply that treatment to Henry. Wow.
I get that you disagree with me. But actually take two seconds to read my response that is not what I said.
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I get that you disagree with me. But actually take two seconds to read my response that is not what I said.
Either you feel Wojo is treating his players correctly or you feel he should treat all his players the same because you feel JJJ was slighted.
Wojo did the correct thing last year, IMO. And he's doing the correct thing this year, IMO. JJJ is playing much better this year. Was it what Wojo did? Maybe, maybe not. But the results are there.
Henry is far and away our best 4. JJJ wasn't the best 2/3 last year. That's why Henry is playing this year and JJJ wasn't last year.
It's not a disagreement. You're just too close to JJJ or for other reasons too biased.
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OK ... and I'll take one more stab at the question you've ignored at least a half-dozen other times ...
Why did you repeatedly and seriously overstate Wojo's comments about Luke in an attempt to make a point about Henry?
Not only that, why does he insist on linking Henry's apparent "selfishness" with Wojo's coaching of Henry and JJJ. It is an illogical argument.