He was hit or miss on Scoop when Howland wanted the Marquette job.
Can't help but notice what he's doing in Starksville of all places; 7 top 100 (2015 & 2016) commits before coaching a game.
Were there ever NCAA infractions broken when Howland was at UCLA or Pitt? I recall the SI article, but was he ever punished for that?
I don't think any of his issues at UCLA were anything that really rose to the NCAA's awareness level.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on November 05, 2015, 10:04:07 AM
He was hit or miss on Scoop when Howland wanted the Marquette job.
Can't help but notice what he's doing in Starksville of all places; 7 top 100 (2015 & 2016) commits before coaching a game.
Were there ever NCAA infractions broken when Howland was at UCLA or Pitt? I recall the SI article, but was he ever punished for that?
I really wanted Howland (and still do?), even over Shaka. All people can ever say is "the guy has stink" but the claim is never substantiated (other than the SI article).
To be fair, there must be reason that MU, along with other schools (including Oregon State...OREGON STATE!!) passed on him.
Quote from: Eldon on November 05, 2015, 10:14:05 AM
I really wanted Howland (and still do?), even over Shaka. All people can ever say is "the guy has stink" but the claim is never substantiated (other than the SI article).
To be fair, there must be reason that MU, along with other schools (including Oregon State...OREGON STATE!!) passed on him.
Based on Howland on Fox Sports TV last year, I think MU passing on him can largely be summed up as "Wojo's a better public speaker."
I don't think Howland has been nailed for any infractions, but he comes across as a pretty terrible human being. If Marquette would stand by the motto of Cura Personalis, it would be pretty hard to justify having someone like Howland on the payroll. Just ask Matt Carlino about his team management.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on November 05, 2015, 10:15:41 AM
Based on Howland on Fox Sports TV last year, I think MU passing on him can largely be summed up as "Wojo's a better public speaker."
And a better power point presenter
Quote from: Eldon on November 05, 2015, 10:14:05 AM
I really wanted Howland (and still do?), even over Shaka. All people can ever say is "the guy has stink" but the claim is never substantiated (other than the SI article).
To be fair, there must be reason that MU, along with other schools (including Oregon State...OREGON STATE!!) passed on him.
Because he is surly. And because he was unfairly maligned by morons like Bill Walton who thought he should have won a certain way at UCLA. But you are right, he has won wherever he has been.
It is much easier to recruit before you coach your first game at a school. You can tell recruits about everything you will do at the school. Wojo is now trying to recruit after a 13-19 season, which is harder than selling future expectations.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on November 05, 2015, 10:04:07 AM
He was hit or miss on Scoop when Howland wanted the Marquette job.
Can't help but notice what he's doing in Starksville of all places; 7 top 100 (2015 & 2016) commits before coaching a game.
Were there ever NCAA infractions broken when Howland was at UCLA or Pitt? I recall the SI article, but was he ever punished for that?
$$$$$$$$$$$$
He didn't build bridges at UCLA. He took some guys of questionable character and had his last couple teams self destruct from within. However, no one has ever doubted he can coach. If he has mellowed, found some humility, and returned to recruiting high character players, he has a lot of ability and experience to offer.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 05, 2015, 10:21:50 AM
If Marquette would stand by the motto of Cura Personalis, it would be pretty hard to justify having someone like Howland on the payroll.
Tom Crean?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on November 05, 2015, 10:45:16 AM
Because he is surly. And because he was unfairly maligned by morons like Bill Walton who thought he should have won a certain way at UCLA. But you are right, he has won wherever he has been.
It wasn't just Walton. That alumni base is one of the most shrill, virulent, and obnoxious this side of Notre Dame. Coaching at UCLA requires diplomatic skills that Howland will never possess.
I thought he would have been a great hire for Marquette. Howland is surly but he's neither an assh0le like Crean nor a f#cking looney like Bert. He would have done great things for us.
We got our guy.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on November 05, 2015, 10:45:16 AM
Because he is surly. And because he was unfairly maligned by morons like Bill Walton who thought he should have won a certain way at UCLA. But you are right, he has won wherever he has been.
Unless that SI piece on him and his final years at UCLA was a piece of fiction, I'd say much of the maligning of Ben Howland was well earned.
Not that it should preclude him from landing another job - including at MU - but he left UCLA a dumpster fire.
This SI article?
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2013/03/25/ucla-ben-howland
Yeah, pretty damning.
I believe Lovell knew Howland from his time at Pittsburgh and chose not to make him the top priority, though I believe he probably would have been considered if Wojo didn't take the job.
Quote from: jpvegas on November 05, 2015, 11:44:29 AM
I believe Lovell knew Howland from his time at Pittsburgh and chose not to make him the top priority, though I believe he probably would have been considered if Wojo didn't take the job.
An interesting angle.
Quote from: tower912 on November 05, 2015, 11:37:05 AM
This SI article?
http://www.si.com/college-basketball/2013/03/25/ucla-ben-howland
Yeah, pretty damning.
I was thinking if this one, but that one's not much better:
http://www.si.com/more-sports/2012/02/29/ucla
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on November 05, 2015, 10:04:07 AM
He was hit or miss on Scoop when Howland wanted the Marquette job.
Can't help but notice what he's doing in Starksville of all places; 7 top 100 (2015 & 2016) commits before coaching a game.
Were there ever NCAA infractions broken when Howland was at UCLA or Pitt? I recall the SI article, but was he ever punished for that?
Who are these 7 top 100 commits to Miss State?
Admittedly not a perfect source but ESPN says one from 2015 to Miss State
http://espn.go.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/344/class/2015
This is biggie in Malik Newman (#1 SG) but he committed before Howland and recommitted once Howland was named. I believe his dad went to Miss State.
And ESPN says 1 from 2016
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/344/class/2016
This is great get Schnider Herard (#8 C)
In Contrast Under WojoESPN says two top 100 commits under Wojo for 2015
http://espn.go.com/colleges/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/269/class/2015
Ellenson and Cheatham
ESPN says two top 100 commits under Wojo for 2016
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/school/_/id/269/class/2016
Hauser and Bailey
By this measure that is Wojo 4 top 100 versus Howland with 2.
What is wrong with this?
Quote from: tower912 on November 05, 2015, 11:47:23 AM
An interesting angle.
The way i remember it Cuonzo was the one we were circling on until the awesome Wojo interview with Ben as the fall back. but that is 100% memory of Scoop.
Howland was never an option for MU. When there are public pictures of you drinking with your underage players you gotta imagine the private pictures are even worse. Howland knows how to win but is not a good human being. Would have been an awful representative of Marquette.
Not as bad as Crean, doe, hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 05, 2015, 02:01:05 PM
Not as bad as Crean, doe, hey?
I'd take Howland as a coach but Crean as a person. Not close on either count.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2015, 01:48:25 PM
Howland was never an option for MU. When there are public pictures of you drinking with your underage players you gotta imagine the private pictures are even worse. Howland knows how to win but is not a good human being. Would have been an awful representative of Marquette.
See the whole drinking with underage players really doesnt bother me at all. I get it from a representing the university standpoint but its not something that bothers me in the slightest.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 05, 2015, 02:33:19 PM
See the whole drinking with underage players really doesnt bother me at all. I get it from a representing the university standpoint but its not something that bothers me in the slightest.
I'm with you on this. I don't think it's something you can call him not a good human being over...
Quote from: Heisenberg on November 05, 2015, 12:06:36 PM
Who are these 7 top 100 commits to Miss State?
2015:
Malik Newman, consensus top 10
Aric Holman, #73 Rivals
Q-Witheraspoon, #116 on Rivals
2016:
Schnider Herald, #34 -Rivals
Tyson Carter, #62 -Rivals
Lamar Peters, #78 -Rivals
Eli Wright, #94 -Rivals
247 has nearly the same
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on November 05, 2015, 05:55:45 PM
2015:
Malik Newman, consensus top 10
Aric Holman, #73 Rivals
Q-Witheraspoon, #116 on Rivals
2016:
Schnider Herald, #34 -Rivals
Tyson Carter, #62 -Rivals
Lamar Peters, #78 -Rivals
Eli Wright, #94 -Rivals
247 has nearly the same
How does MU compare on the same list?
Quote from: Heisenberg on November 05, 2015, 05:59:35 PM
How does MU compare on the same list?
2014:
Sandy, #98
2015:
Henry, #11
Cheatham, #78
T.Carter, #90
2016:
Hauser, #133
2016/2018 B.Bailey, #48
Strong wanted Ben after Shaka
Cords wanted a young coach like Brian
Broeker wanted Cuanzo
Doc wanted Shaka then Wojo
Lovell and Ferraro wanted Wojo
Wojo won them over.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on November 05, 2015, 07:37:06 PM
Strong wanted Ben after Shaka
Cords wanted a young coach like Brian
Broeker wanted Cuanzo
Doc wanted Shaka then Wojo
Lovell and Ferraro wanted Wojo
Wojo won them over.
Is that why rumblings of Strong being less involved exist?
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 05, 2015, 07:56:05 PM
Is that why rumblings of Strong being less involved exist?
He wasn't consulted
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2015, 02:15:31 PM
Crean as a person
You're kidding I hope... Crean is one of the biggest assh0les to ever set foot in a gym.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2015, 02:15:31 PM
I'd take Howland as a coach but Crean as a person. Not close on either count.
I don't know what Howland is like "as a person". But if he's Crean's inferior he's a very, very, very bad man.
Quote from: keefe on November 05, 2015, 08:06:56 PM
You're kidding I hope... Crean is one of the biggest assh0les to ever set foot in a gym.
I'm not going to argue Crean's A$$holeness with you. I know you have your mind made up. But Crean never did anything to public embarrass the university like Howland did at UCLA.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 05, 2015, 02:33:19 PM
See the whole drinking with underage players really doesnt bother me at all. I get it from a representing the university standpoint but its not something that bothers me in the slightest.
Drinking with underage players is an embarrassment for a man in his position.
There is a very true story about Marquette beating Loyola on New Year's Eve in Chicago--at the Chicago Stadium in 1975 or 1976. It was a double header and we were the klate game. After the game, Al tells two managers to go buy a couple of cases of beer. The two managers searched from bar to bar in what was a pretty bad neighborhood at the time. They find a place, buy the beer--crapping in their pants the whole time. As they walk out of the bar, the team bus pulls up, to their delight. The whole team and coaching staff polished 'em off on the way back to Milwaukee.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2015, 08:22:51 PM
Drinking with underage players is an embarrassment for a man in his position.
Quote from: Gato78 on November 05, 2015, 09:04:22 PM
There is a very true story about Marquette beating Loyola on New Year's Eve in Chicago--at the Chicago Stadium in 1975 or 1976. It was a double header and we were the klate game. After the game, Al tells two managers to go buy a couple of cases of beer. The two managers searched from bar to bar in what was a pretty bad neighborhood at the time. They find a place, buy the beer--crapping in their pants the whole time. As they walk out of the bar, the team bus pulls up, to their delight. The whole team and coaching staff polished 'em off on the way back to Milwaukee.
It was a lot easier to get away with things like that when there wasn't camera phones taking pictures of everything. Still, It's a cool story.
Quote from: Gato78 on November 05, 2015, 09:04:22 PM
There is a very true story about Marquette beating Loyola on New Year's Eve in Chicago--at the Chicago Stadium in 1975 or 1976. It was a double header and we were the klate game. After the game, Al tells two managers to go buy a couple of cases of beer. The two managers searched from bar to bar in what was a pretty bad neighborhood at the time. They find a place, buy the beer--crapping in their pants the whole time. As they walk out of the bar, the team bus pulls up, to their delight. The whole team and coaching staff polished 'em off on the way back to Milwaukee.
Drinking age was lower in Al's day. Participating in and encouraging an illegal act is an embarrassing thing to do for a head coach to do to his players.
Lighten up Francis.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2015, 08:20:13 PM
I'm not going to argue Crean's A$$holeness with you. I know you have your mind made up. But Crean never did anything to public embarrass the university like Howland did at UCLA.
He did plenty to embarrass the university. Just as he has done plenty to embarrass IU. The man is a walking penis
Quote from: keefe on November 05, 2015, 09:41:05 PM
He did plenty to embarrass the university.
Such as? Anything that landed him as a feature story on Sports Illustrated or another major publication?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2015, 09:42:20 PM
Such as? Anything that landed him as a feature story on Sports Illustrated or another major publication?
Is your definition of embarrassment limited to an article in Sports Illustrated?
But if you insist on finding broad-based reporting of Crean's absurdly outrageous behavior Bing "Tom Crean Jeff Meyer" and you'll find ample evidence of what an assh0le he is.
Praising "SI" or "another major publication" is wrong in 2015 (or 2013).
Most media gets crap wrong daily and it's disgraceful.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2015, 09:42:20 PM
Such as? Anything that landed him as a feature story on Sports Illustrated or another major publication?
The man allowed us to to get our doors blown off against Kansas in the Final Four for goodness sake! How much more embarrassing can it get as an institution?
Quote from: keefe on November 05, 2015, 10:07:34 PM
Is your definition of embarrassment limited to an article in Sports Illustrated?
But if you insist on finding broad-based reporting of Crean's absurdly outrageous behavior Bing "Tom Crean Jeff Meyer" and you'll find ample evidence of what an assh0le he is.
So he embarrassed Marquette with something he did as the coach of Indiana? I'll take yelling at someone on national tv over being caught breaking the law with the young men he's supposed to be mentoring.
Quote from: Jay Bee on November 05, 2015, 10:21:48 PM
Praising "SI" or "another major publication" is wrong in 2015 (or 2013).
Most media gets crap wrong daily and it's disgraceful.
Absolutely agree that the media gets crap wrong daily. What did they get wrong in the Howland article?
Quote from: cheebs09 on November 05, 2015, 11:12:53 PM
The man allowed us to to get our doors blown off against Kansas in the Final Four for goodness sake! How much more embarrassing can it get as an institution?
See Ben Howland, Rick Pitino, Roy Williams, Bob Knight, etc. That's embarrassing for an institution. Getting your a$$ handed to you on national television sucks but it happens. People accept that.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2015, 11:16:26 PM
So he embarrassed Marquette with something he did as the coach of Indiana? I'll take yelling at someone on national tv over being caught breaking the law with the young men he's supposed to be mentoring.
He treated Marquette employees like crap. In public. Humiliated them.
He gave his own son every award at his basketball camp. In front of all the other parents who paid for their kids to attend. In public.
He shoved a manager for no reason. In front of the entire team.
Things don't need to be in the press in order to be embarrassing for his employer.
Quote from: keefe on November 05, 2015, 11:35:16 PM
He treated Marquette employees like crap. In public. Humiliated them.
He gave his own son every award at his basketball camp. In front of all the other parents who paid for their kids to attend. In public.
He shoved a manager for no reason. In front of the entire team.
Things don't need to be in the press in order to be embarrassing for his employer.
Again, will take all that over Howland's crap. Wouldn't think twice about it. Would I take Crean again? Absolutely not. But I'd take him before Howland.
If you have a moral objection to Crean, then you should have that for Howland as well.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2015, 11:40:06 PM
Again, will take all that over Howland's crap. Wouldn't think twice about it. Would I take Crean again? Absolutely not. But I'd take him before Howland.
If you have a moral objection to Crean, then you should have that for Howland as well.
\
I'll be honest. I did not read the SI article. So I have no idea if Howland has a moral deficiency. And since he never had anything to do with any aspect of my life I really don't care. The world is full of scum bags.
But I do know Crean does. My wife witnessed it first hand more than once. He once pushed a female employee whose effort displeased him. He did this in front of a group of people, including my wife. That was her last visit with Marquette Athletics until after after Crean slithered out of town. The guy is devoid of couth, honor, or dignity.
It's a good thing the season starts in 4 days. The offseason threads have really run their course.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on November 05, 2015, 06:24:50 PM
2014:
Sandy, #98
2015:
Henry, #11
Cheatham, #78
T.Carter, #90
2016:
Hauser, #133
2016/2018 B.Bailey, #48
So using Rivals and assuming Bailey is 2016 (for these purposes), Howland has 6 top 100 2015/2016 recruits (Whiterspoon was 116) and Wojo has 5 (and is still not done with 2016).
Where is the uptick in Howland over Wojo?
Quote from: Heisenberg on November 06, 2015, 06:09:28 AMWhere is the uptick in Howland over Wojo?
There are two arguments I can think of. Howland is a proven coach. When it comes to on court coaching (something many have questioned Wojo on) you know Howland is top notch. Second, for a fanbase that is always looking over its shoulder when it comes to coaches, it seems far more likely that Howland (58 years old) is going to retire from his current job than Wojo (39 years old).
Personally, I'd take Wojo. I think he has more upside and frankly I am just not a fan of the way Howland has run things in the past. I will happily take the players' coach that creates an environment guys want to be in rather than the mercurial disciplinarian that treats his stars differently than his bench and allows bullying.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 06, 2015, 01:00:00 AM
It's a good thing the season starts in 4 days. The offseason threads have really run their course.
I know I contribute to it but I couldn't agree with you more
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 06, 2015, 07:08:42 AM
There are two arguments I can think of. Howland is a proven coach. When it comes to on court coaching (something many have questioned Wojo on) you know Howland is top notch. Second, for a fanbase that is always looking over its shoulder when it comes to coaches, it seems far more likely that Howland (58 years old) is going to retire from his current job than Wojo (39 years old).
Personally, I'd take Wojo. I think he has more upside and frankly I am just not a fan of the way Howland has run things in the past. I will happily take the players' coach that creates an environment guys want to be in rather than the mercurial disciplinarian that treats his stars differently than his bench and allows bullying.
I agree with this. But this thread is about Howland being a master recruiter, implying he is much better than Wojo. The numbers are not really bearing that out. They are both pretty close to each other.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 05, 2015, 11:19:32 PM
See Ben Howland, Rick Pitino, Roy Williams, Bob Knight, etc. That's embarrassing for an institution. Getting your a$$ handed to you on national television sucks but it happens. People accept that.
I have never been embarrassed about our loss to Kansas in the Final Four. I would be embarrassed if Marquette had an assistant coach hiring hookers for our recruits.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 06, 2015, 01:00:00 AM
It's a good thing the season starts in 4 days. The offseason threads have really run their course.
Howland is evil and must be destroyed
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on November 06, 2015, 08:31:33 AM
I have never been embarrassed about our loss to Kansas in the Final Four. I would be embarrassed if Marquette had an assistant coach hiring hookers for our recruits.
Why would you be embarrassed? If anyone is so invested in a sport/team, that they allow themselves to be personally embarrassed by the actions of a coach or program, the coach or the program are not the problem, that individual is.
The list of "embarrassing" coaches, programs, players, etc. is long and exhaustive, whether we are talking NCAA, NFL, MLB, etc. Those negative acts do not reflect on you as a fan anymore than winning or "doing things the right way" does. People who use the terms,
we, our, us, etc. in reference to the teams they cheer for, set themselves up for disappointment, that inevitably comes along at some point. Wearing team colors does not mean you are part of the team. It's all professional sports. It's entertainment, and it is driven by money. Rick Pitino, Wojo, Tom Crean, Patrick Kane, Ray Rice, Lamar Odom...do not represent you or your families. They are not your friends. We don't even know them. We know what we see on TV. They are paid to make money for their employers. The sooner people accept that, the sooner they will stop being disappointed or "embarrassed" time after time.
Quote from: Heisenberg on November 06, 2015, 08:22:14 AM
But this thread is about Howland being a master recruiter, implying he is much better than Wojo.
Here is how I said:
He was hit or miss on Scoop when Howland wanted the Marquette job.
Can't help but notice what he's doing in Starksville of all places; 7 top 100 (2015 & 2016) commits before coaching a game.
Were there ever NCAA infractions broken when Howland was at UCLA or Pitt? I recall the SI article, but was he ever punished for that?
--------------------------------------------
Wojo is the man. I was just wondering how & why he ended up in Starksville. Subsequent follow up posts have cleared that up.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on November 06, 2015, 09:01:18 AM
Why would you be embarrassed? If anyone is so invested in a sport/team, that they allow themselves to be personally embarrassed by the actions of a coach or program, the coach or the program are not the problem, that individual is.
To a certain extent i'd be embarrassed too. Your university experience helps in shaping who you are as an adult and people have expectations on you based (partially) on those developmental experiences. If i wasn't proud of the influence Marquette had on me I wouldn't wear the shirt/fly the flag/root for the team.
If one of your developmental influences is perceived as corrupt, egregiously fallible, or just plain lackadaisical it tarnishes your connection to the institution.
Would a Louisville or UNC like situation at MU change who i am? No. But i wouldn't broadcast my association with MU as much.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on November 06, 2015, 09:01:18 AM
Why would you be embarrassed? If anyone is so invested in a sport/team, that they allow themselves to be personally embarrassed by the actions of a coach or program, the coach or the program are not the problem, that individual is.
Because they represent my alma mater. Getting your doors blown off on a competitive field happens. No biggie. Having people employed by my alma mater, one I am proud to say I graduated from, engage in illegal activity to improve the basketball program, is embarrassing to me.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on November 06, 2015, 09:51:52 AM
Because they represent my alma mater. Getting your doors blown off on a competitive field happens. No biggie. Having people employed by my alma mater, one I am proud to say I graduated from, engage in illegal activity to improve the basketball program, is embarrassing to me.
We took it one step further: we stopped giving to one Marquette program because of what my wife witnessed.
We weren't embarrassed by Crean's behavior as an employee of the University - we were disgusted.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on November 06, 2015, 09:51:52 AM
Because they represent my alma mater. Getting your doors blown off on a competitive field happens. No biggie. Having people employed by my alma mater, one I am proud to say I graduated from, engage in illegal activity to improve the basketball program, is embarrassing to me.
I understand what you're saying, but I guess that's where we see things differently. That basketball program (as with all) should really be considered a separate for-profit entity. A marketing tool. The basketball program is about as much a part of Marquette University (Louisville, Wisconsin, UK, UCLA, etc.), as the Milwaukee Bucks. Ok, I know that's an exaggeration, but college athletics really needs to be viewed as the professional sport that it is. It happens to bear the same name, but that's really where the similarities end.
I would be no more embarrassed by some scandal involving MU's bball team, as I would by the Green Bay Packers. I follow for the entertainment value, but they don't represent me in any way. A hooker/recruit scandal would not diminish my education, nor devalue my experience one but.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on November 06, 2015, 11:20:12 AM
I understand what you're saying, but I guess that's where we see things differently. That basketball program (as with all) should really be considered a separate for-profit entity. A marketing tool. The basketball program is about as much a part of Marquette University (Louisville, Wisconsin, UK, UCLA, etc.), as the Milwaukee Bucks. Ok, I know that's an exaggeration, but college athletics really needs to be viewed as the professional sport that it is. It happens to bear the same name, but that's really where the similarities end.
I would be no more embarrassed by some scandal involving MU's bball team, as I would by the Green Bay Packers. I follow for the entertainment value, but they don't represent me in any way. A hooker/recruit scandal would not diminish my education, nor devalue my experience one but.
I get what you're trying to say but, like it or not, we are each a representative of Marquette University and Marquette is also a representative of us. If the institution at which we chose to get the most important education of our lifetimes shows itself to make poor decisions, whether that's in terms of funding, personnel decisions, programs offered, athletics, etc it makes the university look bad and that reflects poorly on the alumni and their education.
For example, the Louisville scandal gives off the impression that the school cares more about making money by running a successful basketball program than about being an educational institution that values its students' and prospective students' values and safety. That, in turn, reflects poorly on the students and alums.
Quote from: Gato78 on November 05, 2015, 09:04:22 PM
There is a very true story about Marquette beating Loyola on New Year's Eve in Chicago--at the Chicago Stadium in 1975 or 1976. It was a double header and we were the klate game. After the game, Al tells two managers to go buy a couple of cases of beer. The two managers searched from bar to bar in what was a pretty bad neighborhood at the time. They find a place, buy the beer--crapping in their pants the whole time. As they walk out of the bar, the team bus pulls up, to their delight. The whole team and coaching staff polished 'em off on the way back to Milwaukee.
Sorry, but the timing can't be true. Marquette never played Loyola on New Year's Eve in Chicago during Al's tenure. They didn't play Loyola at all during calendar year 1975 and the 1976 game was in Chicago, but on January 31st. From 1969 through 1974 MU played Loyola in Chicago but all those games were in late January, as well. Funny thing about time and memories.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on November 06, 2015, 01:03:45 PM
Sorry, but the timing can't be true. Marquette never played Loyola on New Year's Eve in Chicago during Al's tenure. They didn't play Loyola at all during calendar year 1975 and the 1976 game was in Chicago, but on January 31st. Funny thing about time and memories.
New Year's Eve, New Month's Eve...same difference.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on November 06, 2015, 01:03:45 PM
Sorry, but the timing can't be true. Marquette never played Loyola on New Year's Eve in Chicago during Al's tenure. They didn't play Loyola at all during calendar year 1975 and the 1976 game was in Chicago, but on January 31st. From 1969 through 1974 MU played Loyola in Chicago but all those games were in late January, as well. Funny thing about time and memories.
And the 1/31/76 game was not at the Chicago Stadium, but the International Amphitheatre.
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1976/01/31/page/209/article/walton-gang-hits-town-tonight
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on November 06, 2015, 02:22:17 PM
And the 1/31/76 game was not at the Chicago Stadium, but the International Amphitheatre.
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1976/01/31/page/209/article/walton-gang-hits-town-tonight
Filed under: "Wow! I'm old"
Two pages below the article: a) IBM is being investigated for having a monopoly on typewriters and b) the prime rate is
cut to 6.25%
The National Semi-Final exposed Coach Crean for da bsin' fraud he is, hey?
I need to defend myself and take some shots. First, same story from the two managers at different times. I think, based on the description, this would be the right game. Second, for God's sake, the nitpickers failed to understand the purpose of the story--Al could get away with this stuff and it was not even questioned and entirely normal. Now, it raises the hackles of the resident puritans. Again, lighten up.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on November 06, 2015, 02:22:17 PM
And the 1/31/76 game was not at the Chicago Stadium, but the International Amphitheatre.
http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1976/01/31/page/209/article/walton-gang-hits-town-tonight
Quote from: Gato78 on November 06, 2015, 09:34:26 PM
I need to defend myself and take some shots. First, same story from the two managers at different times. I think, based on the description, this would be the right game. Second, for God's sake, the nitpickers failed to understand the purpose of the story--Al could get away with this stuff and it was not even questioned and entirely normal. Now, it raises the hackles of the resident puritans. Again, lighten up.
Again drinking age was lower then. Problem is Howland was caught breaking the law with his players. You can't do that as a head coach
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 06, 2015, 11:14:35 PM
Again drinking age was lower then. Problem is Howland was caught breaking the law with his players. You can't do that as a head coach
Unless Howland supplied the alcohol, he didn't break any laws. He certainly wasn't under 21 years old.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on November 06, 2015, 06:57:28 PM
The National Semi-Final exposed Coach Crean for da bsin' fraud he is, hey?
I thought exiting in the round of 16 with two lottery picks did that too.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 06, 2015, 11:25:05 PM
Unless Howland supplied the alcohol, he didn't break any laws. He certainly wasn't under 21 years old.
1. Incorrect. If you allow underage drinking to occur on a property you own, lease, or otherwise control you can be cited for violating a social host ordinance. I have no idea where Ben Howland drank with his recruits so I don't know if this happened or not.
2. Allow me to rephrase, Ben Howland was caught encouraging his players to break the law and may have been breaking the law himself.
And this all a happened after he fired an undergraduate student manager for drinking with the players. What a hypocrite.
Quote from: Heisenberg on November 07, 2015, 02:40:12 AM
I thought exiting in the round of 16 with two lottery picks did that too.
(http://d13beo3f7vpmvd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/tomcrean-358x158.jpg)
I'm with Chitown. The season needs to start. But I will say the most ridiculous thing I've read here is that somehow #mubb is separate from the core university is some way and should therefore be held to a lower standard. That's pure horse crap. In some ways, as visible representatives of the school, standards should begin there. Part of the problem with our two coaches before Wojo is that they believed themselves to be bigger than the university.
This is the strangest debate I have read on Scoop yet.
Howland is the coach at Mississippi State. Let's all wish him well, just not too well. And will there be the hand-wringing if Cuanzo Martin at Cal does really well too?
Here's the reality. Wojo is our coach. He has an absolutely outstanding recruiting class with a wonderful headliner recruit building on the core of what was already here (which wasn't much, but a little). And we're doing things the right way that we hope reflects our values as a people and as a university.
We need to see what Wojo can do as a floor coach and motivator. And, his long-term highest level success depends on how well Henry Ellenson does this year -- and maybe for all or parts of the next two -- and whether he puts his players in the NBA.
I expect Wojo to be here for many years and I am optimistic that the banner in the NE corner of the Bradley Center soon will have some friends. I don't care about Howland, Cuanzo or Tommy Crean and the Hillbilly for that matter. You Scoopers shouldn't either unless you are Bulldog, Bear, Hoosier or Hillbilly fans.
Quote from: jsglow on November 07, 2015, 12:48:11 PM
I'm with Chitown. The season needs to start. But I will say the most ridiculous thing I've read here is that somehow #mubb is separate from the core university is some way and should therefore be held to a lower standard. That's pure horse crap. In some ways, as visible representatives of the school, standards should begin there. Part of the problem with our two coaches before Wojo is that they believed themselves to be bigger than the university.
There have been people here (some) that have believed this for many years. Win at all costs, academics mean nothing, basically a minor league sports situation.
Blows my mind, but just win baby is it for many
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 07, 2015, 03:23:34 PM
There have been people here (some) that have believed this for many years. Win at all costs, academics mean nothing, basically a minor league sports situation.
Blows my mind, but just win baby is it for many
Kind of remind me of what's going on at Bloomington. Only hold kids responsible when the public/media gets a hold of the police reports.
Blows my mind.
Quote from: Gato78 on November 06, 2015, 09:34:26 PM
I need to defend myself and take some shots. First, same story from the two managers at different times. I think, based on the description, this would be the right game. Second, for God's sake, the nitpickers failed to understand the purpose of the story--Al could get away with this stuff and it was not even questioned and entirely normal. Now, it raises the hackles of the resident puritans. Again, lighten up.
Calm down.
I thoroughly understand the purpose of the story. I also understand that it occurred 40 years ago when there was a lower drinking age, no social media and a different understanding of what the responsibilities were between students and employees of a university.
So it wasn't just Al that could get away with this stuff. Many coaches could. Many coaches did. Al would never get away with this stuff now.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 07, 2015, 03:23:34 PM
There have been people here (some) that have believed this for many years. Win at all costs, academics mean nothing, basically a minor league sports situation.
Blows my mind, but just win baby is it for many
+1
@jeffborzello: This is the fourth straight week that Mississippi State has landed a four-star prospect -- third straight week getting an ESPN 100 prospect.
@jeffborzello: With Abdul Ado in the fold, Mississippi State now has the No. 6-ranked recruiting class in the country.
Howland paying kids $$$? Starksville is crap
Could you imagine if DePaul had nabbed him?