MUScoop

Let's put a stake in the ground before the season starts and we get caught up in the drama.  What will you find to be an acceptable performance for this team?  Let's try and take some of the "how we got here" out of our arguments.  If we start 0-9 and finish 9-9 vs starting 9-0 and finishing 9-9 makes a difference but in the grand scheme is the result different?

I recognize we haven't seen this team play much, but what are you willing to accept to not be disappointed in this team?

Second weekend. Anything less should be considered a failure.

Wojo is paid for results. Stand and deliver, I say!

This team is a year away.    Not enough experience.    Steady improvement across the board. 

Quote from: keefe on October 27, 2015, 01:51:18 PM
Second weekend. Anything less should be considered a failure.

Wojo is paid for results. Stand and deliver, I say!

I don't buy that this year.  The previous coach flushed the roster so to speak and Wojo had a considerable amount of rebuilding to do.  Don't know how we get to the 2nd weekend with our inexperience.....but I'm willing have whatever you're having :)

Acceptable?  Making the Tournament.  What I'm hoping for?  A Sweet 16 appearance.  What I think is the ceiling?  Elite 8.

My choice isn't up there.  I say somewhere between a 7-10 seed.  They will win their first round game and give their second round opponent a very good game.

If we stay healthy get back into the NCAA tournament (not play-in game so not end of the bubble).

My choice would of been winning one game in NCAA tournament,

I think we will get to the round of 32 this year, which I think is acceptable.

Ceiling: Elite 8

What would make me happy? Making the tournament

Quote from: bilsu on October 27, 2015, 02:11:47 PM
My choice would of been winning one game in NCAA tournament,

I updated the poll to include this choice, feel free to change your vote.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on October 27, 2015, 02:07:56 PM
My choice isn't up there.  I say somewhere between a 7-10 seed.  They will win their first round game and give their second round opponent a very good game.

that's exactly what i was looking for so i went the optimistic and said 2nd weekend.

I will be happy if we are dancing again this year -- disappointed if NIT especially if it isn't after an agonizing selection show.

All bets are off once tourney starts...assuming that is when our freshmen become sophomores

Based on the phrasing of the question, if the team doesn't live up the standard that one votes for, it would be unacceptable (i.e. would put Wojo on the hot seat).

Therefore, "acceptable" would be a solid NIT team as well as being in the conversation as an NCAA Tournament team late in the season. Another season under .500 should put some heat on Wojo. That said, MU has gone 30-34 over the past 2 seasons and this is a very young team who lost basically their only scorer from last season and has no true experienced PG. To find it "unacceptable" for this team to not make the NCAAT just isn't logical.

Obviously I hope that HE is the real deal, Duane becomes a go-to scorer, Fischer dominates the post, etc and the team surprises everyone with a Tourney run, but anything short of that shouldn't be deemed unacceptable.

If we were doing actual predictions, I'd predict that MU spends a lot of the time on the "Last 4 In/Last 4 Out" category and their NCAAT fate will be decided by how they fair in the BET.

Quote from: wadesworld on October 27, 2015, 01:58:06 PM
Acceptable?  Making the Tournament.  What I'm hoping for?  A Sweet 16 appearance.  What I think is the ceiling?  Elite 8.

Agree (except maybe the last part).

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on October 27, 2015, 02:47:14 PM
Based on the phrasing of the question, if the team doesn't live up the standard that one votes for, it would be unacceptable (i.e. would put Wojo on the hot seat).

Therefore, "acceptable" would be a solid NIT team as well as being in the conversation as an NCAA Tournament team late in the season. Another season under .500 should put some heat on Wojo. That said, MU has gone 30-34 over the past 2 seasons and this is a very young team who lost basically their only scorer from last season and has no true experienced PG. To find it "unacceptable" for this team to not make the NCAAT just isn't logical.

Obviously I hope that HE is the real deal, Duane becomes a go-to scorer, Fischer dominates the post, etc and the team surprises everyone with a Tourney run, but anything short of that shouldn't be deemed unacceptable.

If we were doing actual predictions, I'd predict that MU spends a lot of the time on the "Last 4 In/Last 4 Out" category and their NCAAT fate will be decided by how they fair in the BET.

A voice of Reason.

Acceptable: Above .500
Expected: Bubblicous
Ceiling: Elite 8

Kind of a wide range but think it is true. Biggest x factors are injuries and Traci/Haanifs performance at the point. Luke, Henry, and Duane could be the most talented trio in the BEast and it wouldn't make a lick of difference if we don't have at least solid play by our PGs

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on October 27, 2015, 02:47:14 PM
Based on the phrasing of the question, if the team doesn't live up the standard that one votes for, it would be unacceptable (i.e. would put Wojo on the hot seat).

Therefore, "acceptable" would be a solid NIT team as well as being in the conversation as an NCAA Tournament team late in the season. Another season under .500 should put some heat on Wojo. That said, MU has gone 30-34 over the past 2 seasons and this is a very young team who lost basically their only scorer from last season and has no true experienced PG. To find it "unacceptable" for this team to not make the NCAAT just isn't logical.

Obviously I hope that HE is the real deal, Duane becomes a go-to scorer, Fischer dominates the post, etc and the team surprises everyone with a Tourney run, but anything short of that shouldn't be deemed unacceptable.

If we were doing actual predictions, I'd predict that MU spends a lot of the time on the "Last 4 In/Last 4 Out" category and their NCAAT fate will be decided by how they fair in the BET.

I assuming there are no serious injuries with my choice. Injuries would change my expectations. Barring serious injuries I am predicting they will win the Big East tournament.

Quote from: bilsu on October 27, 2015, 03:27:13 PM
I assuming there are no serious injuries with my choice. Injuries would change my expectations. Barring serious injuries I am predicting they will win the Big East tournament.

It's certainly possible but Villanova is a much better team than us. I don't see us beating them. Brunson, Arci, and Hart are way too good of a backcourt. And Luke and Henry are only slightly better than Jenkins Ochefu IMHO.

Again, the question is 'minimally acceptable'.

I voted bubble but headed to the NIT as my floor expectation.  I'd add that making it to MSG and perhaps even winning would be a helluva lot of fun.  Failing to play meaningful post season ball would be a very bitter pill to swallow.

But I'm really thinking we overachieve that by a bit and make the dance on a solid February/March run.  (Seems I heard that somewhere.)

Quote from: jsglow on October 27, 2015, 03:38:05 PM
Again, the question is 'minimally acceptable'.

I voted bubble but headed to the NIT as my floor expectation.  I'd add that making it to MSG and perhaps even winning would be a helluva lot of fun.  Failing to play meaningful post season ball would be a very bitter pill to swallow.

But I'm really thinking we overachieve that by a bit and make the dance on a solid February/March run.  (Seems I heard that somewhere.)

I couldn't agree with you more....you must have tremendous sources of information

My choice isn't up there.  I believe, along with MU03Eng, that there is a real possibility that MU gets shut out every game.


JK (sorry, it's my favorite typo of the year so far).  I chose Bubble Team Express, NIT.

This is the year that MU gets f*cked by the first-four a la UCLA stealing Temple's bid last year.

EDIT: Sorry, just saw that the poll is about what I consider "acceptable" not "where do you think we actually end up."  In that case, Tourney.  We have to make the Tourney at the very least.  Anything else is a failure.

Quote from: tower912 on October 27, 2015, 01:52:47 PM
This team is a year away.    Not enough experience.    Steady improvement across the board.

Agree team may be a year away. The talent is there now, so strike while the iron is hot. In a year many things may change. The improvement has already started, and must snowball this year, from ist game on. take no prisoners.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on October 27, 2015, 03:36:39 PM
It's certainly possible but Villanova is a much better team than us. I don't see us beating them. Brunson, Arci, and Hart are way too good of a backcourt. And Luke and Henry are only slightly better than Jenkins Ochefu IMHO.

Sorry Tamu. Villanova will go down when they get to our place. Screw Jay Wright!

Make it to at least the 2nd weekend of the NCAA tournament

The tournament is generally a crapshoot, but I expect us to be there. Once you're there, you never know. I voted 2nd weekend.

Tourney to start.

Nothing short of tourney is ever "acceptable"

One of surprise teams in country and plays into 2nd weekend.

One of surprise teams in country and plays into 2nd weekend.

Quote from: mu03eng on October 27, 2015, 01:56:26 PM
I don't buy that this year.  The previous coach flushed the roster so to speak and Wojo had a considerable amount of rebuilding to do.  Don't know how we get to the 2nd weekend with our inexperience.....but I'm willing have whatever you're having :)

Navy

My comment was tongue in cheek. If this team makes the Dance I will be thrilled. Any progress into the brackets is gravy.

It's kinda like when an F/A 18 Driver is in a bar and gets the smoking hot woman to at least acknowledge his presence. That way, when he sees her leaving with the Warthog Driver, he can take some satisfaction that the evening wasn't a total crash and burn.

Two different questions for me. I would accept finishing over .500 and being in contention for the NIT. My hopes are for Henry to cut down the nets in April.

As far as reality, I think we go 11-2 in non-conference, 11-7 in conference, and 2-1 at MSG to enter the NCAAs 24-10. I think we'll finish strong, but our RPI drops our seed to the 6-7 range. Any wins in the tourney would be gravy on an unexpectedly good season.

NIT team.  Have to be stronger at the guard position...stronger and more experienced.  Hope I'm wrong.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 27, 2015, 09:13:37 PM
NIT team.  Have to be stronger at the guard position...stronger and more experienced.  Hope I'm wrong.

Wow. Your Tanned Tommy Man Love is showing

Quote from: keefe on October 27, 2015, 10:00:37 PM
Wow. Your Tanned Tommy Man Love is showing

Exactly.

Quote from: Goose on October 27, 2015, 07:11:59 PM
One of surprise teams in country and plays into 2nd weekend.

You can say that again!

Quote from: Goose on October 27, 2015, 07:12:12 PM
One of surprise teams in country and plays into 2nd weekend.

Well, um, ok.

Quote from: rocky_warrior on October 28, 2015, 01:10:57 AM
You can say that again!

Well, um, ok.

LOL.  Sigh.  I love Scoop.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 27, 2015, 09:13:37 PM
NIT team.  Have to be stronger at the guard position...stronger and more experienced.  Hope I'm wrong.

Agreed.

Quote from: keefe on October 27, 2015, 08:07:37 PM
Navy

My comment was tongue in cheek. If this team makes the Dance I will be thrilled. Any progress into the brackets is gravy.

It's kinda like when an F/A 18 Driver is in a bar and gets the smoking hot woman to at least acknowledge his presence. That way, when he sees her leaving with the Warthog Driver, he can take some satisfaction that the evening wasn't a total crash and burn.

(http://media.giphy.com/media/n988gduPMFC8w/giphy.gif)

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on October 27, 2015, 02:47:14 PM
Based on the phrasing of the question, if the team doesn't live up the standard that one votes for, it would be unacceptable (i.e. would put Wojo on the hot seat).

Therefore, "acceptable" would be a solid NIT team as well as being in the conversation as an NCAA Tournament team late in the season. Another season under .500 should put some heat on Wojo. That said, MU has gone 30-34 over the past 2 seasons and this is a very young team who lost basically their only scorer from last season and has no true experienced PG. To find it "unacceptable" for this team to not make the NCAAT just isn't logical.

Obviously I hope that HE is the real deal, Duane becomes a go-to scorer, Fischer dominates the post, etc and the team surprises everyone with a Tourney run, but anything short of that shouldn't be deemed unacceptable.

If we were doing actual predictions, I'd predict that MU spends a lot of the time on the "Last 4 In/Last 4 Out" category and their NCAAT fate will be decided by how they fair in the BET.

This.  We are extremely inexperienced, and a solid NIT bid/discussion about the big dance is acceptable at this point in the rebuild.  Obviously we are all hoping for better than that.

So if an NIT or bubble team and being a year away with Henry....what will MU be a year from now without him?

Second weekend or bust

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on October 28, 2015, 08:01:46 AM
So if an NIT or bubble team and being a year away with Henry....what will MU be a year from now without him?

Second weekend or bust

So we can file you in the strongly believe Hank is a one and done category I take it?  :)

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on October 28, 2015, 08:01:46 AM
So if an NIT or bubble team and being a year away with Henry....what will MU be a year from now without him?

Second weekend or bust

I agree. If we're an NIT team with a guy projected to be the 8th player taken in the NBA draft can we hope for any more the first year or two after he leaves? Those are Mike Deane expectations.

First off, sorry for double post last night. Lenny and Dr. Blackheart we are on the same page. If Henry is one and one, which I believe 100%, we better have success with him now. He will make everyone, especially Luke, much better. I firmly believe we will be surprise team in the country. Henry is a special talent.

Quote from: keefe on October 27, 2015, 10:00:37 PM
Wow. Your Tanned Tommy Man Love is showing

?????  I have no idea what you are even saying here or why you would bring him into this.

Quote from: wadesworld on October 27, 2015, 10:04:49 PM
Exactly.

Now, with WW, I have every idea why he brings it up, because he isn't capable of original thought.


Keefe, I expect way WAY more from you.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 28, 2015, 08:35:13 AM
I agree. If we're an NIT team with a guy projected to be the 8th player taken in the NBA draft can we hope for any more the first year or two after he leaves? Those are Mike Deane expectations.

Agree, this is why I said minimum is making the tourney, barring injury.

Third in the table. HE is best player in conference but will be passed over for recognition in place of an average player on the best squad. Wojo will get COY since Dapper Jay has too many of them. Lose spectacularly in the NCAA Tournament and then spend 13 days sweating Rocky Mountain Oysters on Ellenson playing with Hauser.

Quote from: Goose on October 27, 2015, 07:11:59 PM
One of surprise teams in country and plays into 2nd weekend.

That's my view.

I think even with our youthfulness, we will surprise people. If half the posters are right and Henry is a first round NBA selection, we will by definition be into the second round. To be otherwise suggests we have some real problems elsewhere on the team.

That said, I think we are talented and that talent will shine. Villanova is good but we're long past the days when only one conference team makes the NCAA. I think we're as good as just about anyone in our conference outside Villanova and we'll do well.

Quote from: dgies9156 on October 28, 2015, 10:14:38 AM
To be otherwise suggests we have some real problems elsewhere on the team.

Two true freshmen running the point. That could potentially be the real problem elsewhere on the team. They could be studs and tc looked promising in Italy but we are overlooking how important having a quality pg is. If they aren't at least solid we won't be good

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on October 28, 2015, 10:36:34 AM
Two true freshmen running the point. That could potentially be the real problem elsewhere on the team. They could be studs and tc looked promising in Italy but we are overlooking how important having a quality pg is. If they aren't at least solid we won't be good

Agree that point guard play must be "solid" if by solid you mean the Cadougan/Derrick combo that took us to the second weekend of the tournament three straight years. To many here that would be somewhere between adequate and bad - shouldn't be too high a hurdle.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 28, 2015, 09:33:55 AM
?????  I have no idea what you are even saying here or why you would bring him into this.

Jams, I'm just funnin' ya, man

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 28, 2015, 10:48:58 AM
Agree that point guard play must be "solid" if by solid you mean the Cadougan/Derrick combo that took us to the second weekend of the tournament three straight years. To many here that would be somewhere between adequate and bad - shouldn't be too high a hurdle.

I never once saw Cadougan as "adequate." I know he caught a lot of grief here but I never understood that. That guy could play.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 28, 2015, 10:48:58 AM
Agree that point guard play must be "solid" if by solid you mean the Cadougan/Derrick combo that took us to the second weekend of the tournament three straight years. To many here that would be somewhere between adequate and bad - shouldn't be too high a hurdle.

Cadougan/Derrick levels is exactly what I think this team needs in order to be good. Like Keefe, I always though Cadougan was a good point guard. Not great, but certainly didn't deserve the level of criticism he got. Derrick was a very good backup PG but wasn't strong enough to be a starting PG. If TC and Haanif can be as good as junior year junior and freshman year Derrick than I will be pretty confident moving forward.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on October 28, 2015, 11:05:26 AM
Cadougan/Derrick levels is exactly what I think this team needs in order to be good. Like Keefe, I always though Cadougan was a good point guard. Not great, but certainly didn't deserve the level of criticism he got. Derrick was a very good backup PG but wasn't strong enough to be a starting PG. If TC and Haanif can be as good as junior year junior and freshman year Derrick than I will be pretty confident moving forward.

I think The Engine will be more than adequate on the offensive end....might be a few freshman mistakes but I have no doubt we will see a revolution in PG play on the offensive end as compared to at least the last 2 years.

Defense is where I'm concerned.  If he can play solid, non-fouling defense we'll be ok.  If he gets into foul trouble=bad and if he is a turnstile on defense forcing a lot of help(and fouls down low)=very bad.

We need him to be competent on the defensive end, something we haven't had to worry about in 5 or 6 years at the PG spot.

Best case: 2nd weekend

Worst case: Wojo can't coach

What I'd be happy with: a team like 05-06 or 09-10 that's a lot of fun to watch but gets bounced in heartbreaking fashion in the 1st round

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on October 28, 2015, 08:01:46 AM
So if an NIT or bubble team and being a year away with Henry....what will MU be a year from now without him?

Second weekend or bust

Even if HE leaves, I'm of the mind the team will improve the following year.  The nine remaining guys will improve simply through more experience and getting stronger, particularly the current freshmen that have zero college experience.  Then add in more talent coming in the door the following year including an experienced guard that can light it up from deep and I think you have a better team even if HE goes to the NBA.

Quote from: TSmith34 on October 28, 2015, 11:36:45 AM
Even if HE leaves, I'm of the mind the team will improve the following year.  The nine remaining guys will improve simply through more experience and getting stronger, particularly the current freshmen that have zero college experience.  Then add in more talent coming in the door the following year including an experienced guard that can light it up from deep and I think you have a better team even if HE goes to the NBA.

Yes, Sam Hauser and Andrew Rousey will be quality additions who can contribute immediately.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on October 27, 2015, 03:36:39 PM
It's certainly possible but Villanova is a much better team than us. I don't see us beating them. Brunson, Arci, and Hart are way too good of a backcourt. And Luke and Henry are only slightly better than Jenkins Ochefu IMHO.

I am not afraid of the March flame outs, which is what Villanova is.

Quote from: rocky_warrior on October 28, 2015, 01:10:57 AM
You can say that again!

Well, um, ok.

Haha this is hilarious.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 28, 2015, 09:34:48 AM
Now, with WW, I have every idea why he brings it up, because he isn't capable of original thought.


Keefe, I expect way WAY more from you.

Not capable of original thought?  Haha.  Outstanding, Chicos!

One "original thought" I would certainly not be capable of is coming up with a story of Disney dreams and cold brews flowing in the Southern California back yard of some random MUScooper and with the wife and kids, finding a common love of (magically) the same 3 schools, and just happened to be around for the exact time frame that you were banned from MUScoop.

Now that is some original thought for you, people!

Quote from: keefe on October 28, 2015, 10:55:10 AM
I never once saw Cadougan as "adequate." I know he caught a lot of grief here but I never understood that. That guy could play.

Yup.

Quote from: mu03eng on October 28, 2015, 11:18:35 AM
I think The Engine will be more than adequate on the offensive end....might be a few freshman mistakes but I have no doubt we will see a revolution in PG play on the offensive end as compared to at least the last 2 years.

Defense is where I'm concerned.  If he can play solid, non-fouling defense we'll be ok.  If he gets into foul trouble=bad and if he is a turnstile on defense forcing a lot of help(and fouls down low)=very bad.

We need him to be competent on the defensive end, something we haven't had to worry about in 5 or 6 years at the PG spot.

Cadougan wasn't a good defender at all.

Quote from: mu03eng on October 28, 2015, 11:18:35 AM
Defense is where I'm concerned.  If he can play solid, non-fouling defense we'll be ok.  If he gets into foul trouble=bad and if he is a turnstile on defense forcing a lot of help(and fouls down low)=very bad.

I wouldn't worry too much about his defense.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 27, 2015, 09:13:37 PM
NIT team.  Have to be stronger at the guard position...stronger and more experienced.  Hope I'm wrong.

I agree with you. I'm not sure our team is seasoned enough to consistently win this season. I also hope I'm wrong.

We have a lot of freshmen.

Acceptable to me would be above .500 NIT or CBI. This is only Wojo's second year. I don't think you can expect more than incremental improvement. Do I think Marquette can make the NCAAs of course. And that's obviously the goal, but to act like it would be unacceptable for a second year coach to not make the NCAAs is pretty ridiculous. Very little experience on the court and on the bench. The talent is there but it could be a year away and that's ok. Now I'm predicting Marquette to make the NCAA tournament as a bubble team, but I don't think it would be unacceptable or a failure on wojo's part if they don't get there.

Quote from: hoyasincebirth on October 28, 2015, 04:54:02 PM
Acceptable to me would be above .500 NIT or CBI. This is only Wojo's second year. I don't think you can expect more than incremental improvement. Do I think Marquette can make the NCAAs of course. And that's obviously the goal, but to act like it would be unacceptable for a second year coach to not make the NCAAs is pretty ridiculous. Very little experience on the court and on the bench. The talent is there but it could be a year away and that's ok. Now I'm predicting Marquette to make the NCAA tournament as a bubble team, but I don't think it would be unacceptable or a failure on wojo's part if they don't get there.

Second well thought out post tonight!  "This is only Wojo's second year." Will have to be said more than a few times this season.

In an effort to help you not get banned by making it 3 in a row.......what seed do the Hoyas get?  and Do you see a BE POY on your roster?

I don't follow G'Town close enough to guess on the seed but I think Smith-Rivera comes close (top 3) but can't out do Dunn.

Quote from: MUfan12 on October 28, 2015, 12:21:27 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about his defense.

Not worried per se, especially long term but Wojo's man defense is predicated on face guarding, no gambling and limiting the need for help.  Can Engine do that against veteran players as a freshman, not sure.  McNeal and DJ were two of the best guard defenders of the last 20 years and they didn't become above average ball defenders until at least their sophomore years

One other note, I do think Hank stays for two years for the following reasons with no real inside information:

1.  I want him to
2.  He will need refinement on his 3pt shot and rebounding to be NBA ready...don't think he masters that out NBA speed in one season
3.  He wants to play with his brother, one year is good, two is great
4.  It will be far better to be a rookie, financially in 2017-18 than it would in 2016-2017(new tv contract for salary cap explosion in 2016 which is why players like Durant are going to sign one year contracts after this season.)

So I don't put it all on this season.

Quote from: mu03eng on October 28, 2015, 07:57:51 PM
One other note, I do think Hank stays for two years for the following reasons with no real inside information:

1.  I want him to

Haha that's awesome. Honesty is the best policy.

Quote from: mu03eng on October 28, 2015, 06:52:54 PM
Not worried per se, especially long term but Wojo's man defense is predicated on face guarding, no gambling and limiting the need for help.  Can Engine do that against veteran players as a freshman, not sure.  McNeal and DJ were two of the best guard defenders of the last 20 years and they didn't become above average ball defenders until at least their sophomore years

McNeal was a great defender until about his junior year.  At that point he became more worried about scoring the basketball and forgot there was a 2nd side of a basketball court.

Guard's game, we will go as far as our guards take us.  If the guards can't break down the defense or get the ball to Henry, etc in the right spot, hit a decent percentage to open up the middle and keep defenses honest, then it will be difficult.

I think Henry stays for two years primarily because our guards won't be good enough to allow him to shine.  If the guards are good enough, then the team and Henry will do quite well. 

Quote from: mu03eng on October 28, 2015, 07:57:51 PM
One other note, I do think Hank stays for two years for the following reasons with no real inside information:

1.  I want him to
2.  He will need refinement on his 3pt shot and rebounding to be NBA ready...don't think he masters that out NBA speed in one season
3.  He wants to play with his brother, one year is good, two is great
4.  It will be far better to be a rookie, financially in 2017-18 than it would in 2016-2017(new tv contract for salary cap explosion in 2016 which is why players like Durant are going to sign one year contracts after this season.)

So I don't put it all on this season.

This is one of the many reasons it is very logical for him to leave.  Rookie contracts are rookie contracts.  The faster you get to your 2nd contract the faster you get to the big money.

Quote from: wadesworld on October 28, 2015, 10:23:25 PM
This is one of the many reasons it is very logical for him to leave.  Rookie contracts are rookie contracts.  The faster you get to your 2nd contract the faster you get to the big money.

That's a good point.  By skipping one year in the NBA, he may never recoup the opportunity cost of a full season's foregone earnings.  He's got some present value calculations to make for sure.

Anticipated - Sweet Sixteen, possible E8 if we draw an evenly sized team.  Dark horse for FF after Selection Sunday.

Best Case - Henry and DuWil are playing in the NBA in 2016.

Minimally Acceptable - Both of them are on the team next year.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 28, 2015, 10:22:11 PM
Guard's game, we will go as far as our guards take us.  If the guards can't break down the defense or get the ball to Henry, etc in the right spot, hit a decent percentage to open up the middle and keep defenses honest, then it will be difficult.

I think Henry stays for two years primarily because our guards won't be good enough to allow him to shine.  If the guards are good enough, then the team and Henry will do quite well.

Henry has a lot of ball-handling/perimeter skills. The guards won't have as much of an impact on his performance as they would a traditional big man, like Luke (traditional meaning traditional, not "traditional"...even though both players are "traditionals"). Quite frankly, if Henry truly is a one-and-done top 8 NBA Draft pick, he's going to shine regardless. If he doesn't appear ready yet, it won't be because of the guards. It'll be because he's not ready yet.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on October 29, 2015, 08:36:13 AM
Henry has a lot of ball-handling/perimeter skills. The guards won't have as much of an impact on his performance as they would a traditional big man, like Luke (traditional meaning traditional, not "traditional"...even though both players are "traditionals"). Quite frankly, if Henry truly is a one-and-done top 8 NBA Draft pick, he's going to shine regardless. If he doesn't appear ready yet, it won't be because of the guards. It'll be because he's not ready yet.

If Henry is a top 8 NBA pick, he will make the guards look better.  I think Henry will help Luke shine as well since space in the post should be significant as Henry is a stretch 4 and will only post up if he's got a significant height advantage.

I think Hank will play a lot of the way we all wanted Ox to be capable of playing when we were going insane with Oxtule love on the board, but Ox was definitely a 5 in a stretch 4s clothing

Quote from: mu03eng on October 29, 2015, 08:56:42 AM
If Henry is a top 8 NBA pick, he will make the guards look better.  I think Henry will help Luke shine as well since space in the post should be significant as Henry is a stretch 4 and will only post up if he's got a significant height advantage.

I think Hank will play a lot of the way we all wanted Ox to be capable of playing when we were going insane with Oxtule love on the board, but Ox was definitely a 5 in a stretch 4s clothing

Gardner would have stretched a lot of 5's clothing as well  ;)

I'm not sure that Gardner and stretch 4 have ever been in the same sentence before. 

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on October 29, 2015, 09:04:21 AM
Gardner would have stretched a lot of 5's clothing as well  ;)

(http://new4.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/Wow+that+story+was+quite+the+journey+_c3cf6baef63b44f9e7e08e05f4021e5d.gif)

Quote from: tower912 on October 29, 2015, 09:28:46 AM
I'm not sure that Gardner and stretch 4 have ever been in the same sentence before.

No, but that's what the whole Oxtule thing was whether we call it that or not.  Gardner could play the 4 and take mid-range jumpers or "drive" while Otule posted up(with the space of Gardner especially Gardner not tying up the lane).

I see us sweating it out on selection Sunday but making the field only to lose our first game in a close one.

Quote from: frozena pizza on October 29, 2015, 11:51:26 AM
I see us sweating it out on selection Sunday but making the field only to lose our first game in a close one.

And you call yourself a fan...

Quote from: keefe on October 29, 2015, 01:01:57 PM
And you call yourself a fan...

And a walk-on fan at that....

If they don't make the NCAA tournament the season would be a failure! Wojo and crew need to deliver results (WINS)!!!

Go Warriors

Now I know almost only counts in hand grenades and horse shoes... But last year we could have easily been 19-13 if not for two OT losses (butler and GTown) and 4 games we couldn't close (loses within two possessions agains Depaul, St. John's and Xavier x2). Mix that with injuries to Carlino and Fischer missing the first half of the season and then a bum shoulder...
So based on this I am hopeful for at least an NCAA tourney bid and hopefully 1 win in the tourney.

Quote from: naginiF on October 28, 2015, 05:49:15 PM
Second well thought out post tonight!  "This is only Wojo's second year." Will have to be said more than a few times this season.

In an effort to help you not get banned by making it 3 in a row.......what seed do the Hoyas get?  and Do you see a BE POY on your roster?

I don't follow G'Town close enough to guess on the seed but I think Smith-Rivera comes close (top 3) but can't out do Dunn.

Heart: Hoyas get a 1 seed as they win both the regular season and BET.

More realistically: Hoyas get a 3 seed.

POY is Dunn's to lose. Unless Providence totally tanks and finishes below 6th I don't see how you don't give it to him. He's going to have multiple triple doubles. DSR is clearly a first team player and would be more deserving of a Co-POY than Archidiacino ever was, but I'll stick with just Dunn.

Quote from: hoyasincebirth on October 29, 2015, 03:43:52 PM
Heart: Hoyas get a 1 seed as they win both the regular season and BET.

More realistically: Hoyas get a 3 seed.

POY is Dunn's to lose. Unless Providence totally tanks and finishes below 6th I don't see how you don't give it to him. He's going to have multiple triple doubles. DSR is clearly a first team player and would be more deserving of a Co-POY than Archidiacino ever was, but I'll stick with just Dunn.

And you think Marquette fans are in fantasy land? Hah!

Quote from: hoyasincebirth on October 28, 2015, 04:54:02 PM
Acceptable to me would be above .500 NIT or CBI. This is only Wojo's second year. I don't think you can expect more than incremental improvement. Do I think Marquette can make the NCAAs of course. And that's obviously the goal, but to act like it would be unacceptable for a second year coach to not make the NCAAs is pretty ridiculous. Very little experience on the court and on the bench. The talent is there but it could be a year away and that's ok. Now I'm predicting Marquette to make the NCAA tournament as a bubble team, but I don't think it would be unacceptable or a failure on wojo's part if they don't get there.

Go piss in someone else's Cheerios!

I've never understood why someone would post on another teams message board.  You've always come off as fairly knowledgeable, but I just don't get it. You must have a lot of time on your hands!

Quote from: hoyasincebirth on October 29, 2015, 03:43:52 PM
Heart: Hoyas get a 1 seed as they win both the regular season and BET.

More realistically: Hoyas get a 3 seed.

POY is Dunn's to lose. Unless Providence totally tanks and finishes below 6th I don't see how you don't give it to him. He's going to have multiple triple doubles. DSR is clearly a first team player and would be more deserving of a Co-POY than Archidiacino ever was, but I'll stick with just Dunn.

You're talking 3 seed in the BET, right?

Quote from: hoyasincebirth on October 29, 2015, 03:43:52 PM
Heart: Hoyas get a 1 seed as they win both the regular season and BET.

More realistically: Hoyas get a 3 seed.

POY is Dunn's to lose. Unless Providence totally tanks and finishes below 6th I don't see how you don't give it to him. He's going to have multiple triple doubles. DSR is clearly a first team player and would be more deserving of a Co-POY than Archidiacino ever was, but I'll stick with just Dunn.

You're knowledgeable and seem like a good guy, but you have a history of overrating the Hoyas - by a lot.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 29, 2015, 10:18:28 PM
You're knowledgeable and seem like a good guy, but you have a history of overrating the Hoyas - by a lot.

*reads post*
*nods in full agreement*
*looks in mirror*

- 90% of Scoop

Quote from: naginiF on October 30, 2015, 07:15:55 AM
*reads post*
*nods in full agreement*
*looks in mirror*

- 90% of Scoop

Haha, well done.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 29, 2015, 10:18:28 PM
You're knowledgeable and seem like a good guy, but you have a history of overrating the Hoyas - by a lot.

What Lenny is trying to say is, "Hello Pot, welcome to the Kettle store"

Quote from: hoyasincebirth on October 29, 2015, 03:43:52 PM
Hoyas get a 1 seed as they win both the regular season and BET.

So this is the year the 16 beats a 1?

Quote from: keefe on October 29, 2015, 01:01:57 PM
And you call yourself a fan...

Just trying to be realistic.  How much can you really expect from a team that went 13-19 last year and lost it's top scorer and top 2 rebounders?  Yes we have a nice freshman class coming in but to expect us to win games in the dance would be highly optimistic.

Quote from: frozena pizza on October 30, 2015, 10:11:31 AM
Just trying to be realistic.  How much can you really expect from a team that went 13-19 last year and lost it's top scorer and top 2 rebounders?  Yes we have a nice freshman class coming in but to expect us to win games in the dance would be highly optimistic.

I get that.  But lasts year's team was just so flawed.  First off, there were only 6 or 7 healthy players for a good chunk of the year.  The leading scorer was a chucker.  The leading rebounders you mentioned were mid-major level players at best.  The PG was comically bad offensively.  Our stud C that missed half the year was constantly double teamed because he was the only guy that could really hurt you.  There is some legitimate addition by subtraction from last year, before you even consider the newcomers and the improvement from Duane, Luke, Sandy and JJJ.

I am pretty confident that despite being a very young team, this team is going to be leaps and bounds ahead of last years team, even in the early going. Wojo has said as much already.  Much more depth.  A couple PGs who can shoot. A stud SG who won't have to worry about playing out of position and can focus on his game.  A likely top 20 talent in the NCAAs at PF who will open things up for Luke.  I don't think that can be understated. 

Bottom line, the two teams are so different that you can't really compare them.  I may be ignorant and totally wrong, but I really like the way things are looking and I am excited as hell. 

Quote from: MUfan12 on October 30, 2015, 09:42:19 AM
So this is the year the 16 beats a 1?

Well played.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 29, 2015, 10:18:28 PM
You're knowledgeable and seem like a good guy, but you have a history of overrating the Hoyas - by a lot.

Quite the history indeed--he's been doing it since birth.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on October 29, 2015, 04:09:50 PM
You must have a lot of time on your hands!

Aren't you the guy who was pissed off about not being able to visit Scoop during the work day?

Quote from: keefe on October 30, 2015, 12:15:02 PM
Aren't you the guy who was pissed off about not being able to visit Scoop during the work day?

No, I was the guy that thought you're a creepy old man who for some strange reason felt it necessary to post half naked women on here constantly, resulting in making scoop NSFW.

You can get back to the game show network now!

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on October 30, 2015, 12:26:09 PM
No, I was the guy that thought you're a creepy old man who for some strange reason felt it necessary to post half naked women on here constantly, resulting in making scoop NSFW.

You can get back to the game show network now!

Game Show Network, huh?

You couldn't even begin to comprehend...

Quote from: keefe on October 30, 2015, 12:42:43 PM
Game Show Network, huh?

You couldn't even begin to comprehend...

Just how vast is your library of VHS recordings of Press Your Luck and Match Game?

Quote from: keefe on October 30, 2015, 12:42:43 PM
Game Show Network, huh?

You couldn't even begin to comprehend...

I don't care to comprehend anything about your pretentious self. 

Carry on, bud.

Quote from: Benny B on October 30, 2015, 12:52:44 PM
Just how vast is your library of VHS recordings of Press Your Luck and Match Game?

VHS??? BetaMAx!

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on October 30, 2015, 10:47:42 AM
There is some legitimate addition by subtraction from last year

There is no such thing as addition by subtraction in basketball, unless you replace their scholarships with better players. Any player is better than an empty seat on the bench, which we have two of.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on October 30, 2015, 12:26:09 PM
No, I was the guy that thought you're a creepy old man who for some strange reason felt it necessary to post half naked women on here constantly, resulting in making scoop NSFW.

You can get back to the game show network now!

You must be the only guy on Scoop who doesn't appreciate the Israeli hotties.  I'm sure Chick doesn't appreciate them, but she doesn't pee in our Cheerios.  Go yell at the kids on your lawn.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on October 29, 2015, 04:08:10 PM
And you think Marquette fans are in fantasy land? Hah!

Hoyas were a 4 seed last year, how is moving up to a 3 seed fantasy? If you're talking about 1 seed yes that's more of a stretch, but if the BE regular season champ also wins the BET they'll get a 1 seed and as the team picked second in the preseason, winning the BE is not a stretch.

Just watched MU win the National Championship again on the Internet. I AM CHARGED!
LET'S GET IT ON!

It's October. Might as well start it early. They gotta fill the field.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on October 30, 2015, 02:18:28 PM
There is no such thing as addition by subtraction in basketball, unless you replace their scholarships with better players. Any player is better than an empty seat on the bench, which we have two of.

I am fairly confident that the newcomers will be more effective basketball players than Juan, Derrick and Steve Taylor JR. Is that better?

Quote from: mu-rara on October 30, 2015, 02:50:14 PM
You must be the only guy on Scoop who doesn't appreciate the Israeli hotties.  I'm sure Chick doesn't appreciate them, but she doesn't pee in our Cheerios.  Go yell at the kids on your lawn.

I doubt that.

If I want to see half naked girls, there is that thing called Google. I don't care to see it when I come to scoop to read about Marquette basketball. Not really that outrageous.

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on October 30, 2015, 06:13:04 PM

If I want to see half naked girls, there is that thing called Google. I don't care to see it when I come to scoop to read about Marquette basketball. Not really that outrageous.

-1.  Respect the meme!

We're adding a lottery pick, a top 10 talent. I don't think most fans know how to process this.

That plus Tony Miller 2.0, has me thinking Sweet 16.  If TC was still here, I'd say NIT, or first round, but I don't think Wojo will hinder us like TC would.   

Quote from: The Lens on October 31, 2015, 12:46:58 AM
We're adding a lottery pick, a top 10 talent. I don't think most fans know how to process this.

That plus Tony Miller 2.0, has me thinking Sweet 16.  If TC was still here, I'd say NIT, or first rigid, but I don't think Wojo will hinder us like TC would.

Or, it could be that some of us think he is potentially really good, but not a top 10 talent or a lottery pick.  That doesn't mean not good enough to be a first rounder, that doesn't mean he isn't really good....and maybe he is truly that good, but I'm really looking forward to seeing him play against quality competition.

AND, even if he is that good, do we have the talent at the guard spots to compete for the year?

I hope we do, but those are two areas of concern for me.  I think HE is probably really good and at times will be great, and at times like a freshman.  The guard play has me more worried.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 31, 2015, 12:56:58 AM
Or, it could be that some of us think he is potentially really good, but not a top 10 talent or a lottery pick.  That doesn't mean not good enough to be a first rounder, that doesn't mean he isn't really good....and maybe he is truly that good, but I'm really looking forward to seeing him play against quality competition.

AND, even if he is that good, do we have the talent at the guard spots to compete for the year?

I hope we do, but those are two areas of concern for me.  I think HE is probably really good and at times will be great, and at times like a freshman.  The guard play has me more worried.

Marquette is young and will play young many times this season. I think there is a lot of time between now and Selection Sunday. We'll know by mid-Feb what we have in this year's team.

Basketball is a game of runs and experience is a key ingredient in not just manufacturing them but, more importantly, in stopping another team's momentum. Let's see how they deal with legitimate adversity.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 31, 2015, 12:56:58 AM
Or, it could be that some of us think he is potentially really good, but not a top 10 talent or a lottery pick.  That doesn't mean not good enough to be a first rounder, that doesn't mean he isn't really good....and maybe he is truly that good, but I'm really looking forward to seeing him play against quality competition.

AND, even if he is that good, do we have the talent at the guard spots to compete for the year?

I hope we do, but those are two areas of concern for me.  I think HE is probably really good and at times will be great, and at times like a freshman.  The guard play has me more worried.

I believe in Traci. And Duane is a 3rd year player.   

I fear our lack of frontcourt depth will come back to bite us.

I think Henry is going to be very good.      I just don't understand how anyone can predict that a team with.....

(A) 10 scholarship players.
(B) 3 of whom are taller than 6'6
(C) 5 of whom are freshmen
(D)  off of a 13-19 team that lost a lot of scoring and rebounding
(E) with two freshman point guards, one of whom was not a point guard in high school

....is a second weekend of the tournament team.   Pure homerism.   I would never predict those kind of things for a team that wasn't MU, unless it was another one of Kentucky's ridiculous freshman classes.    Too many things have to go right along with no injuries to Luke, Henry, Duane, or Traci for this team to sniff the big dance.    I hope this gets thrown in my face as the worst prediction ever in 4 months.   But for now, I am going not going to set the bar too high. 

Quote from: tower912 on October 31, 2015, 10:14:05 AM
I think Henry is going to be very good.      I just don't understand how anyone can predict that a team with.....

(A) 10 scholarship players.
(B) 3 of whom are taller than 6'6
(C) 5 of whom are freshmen
(D)  off of a 13-19 team that lost a lot of scoring and rebounding
(E) with two freshman point guards, one of whom was not a point guard in high school

....is a second weekend of the tournament team.   Pure homerism.   I would never predict those kind of things for a team that wasn't MU, unless it was another one of Kentucky's ridiculous freshman classes.    Too many things have to go right along with no injuries to Luke, Henry, Duane, or Traci for this team to sniff the big dance.    I hope this gets thrown in my face as the worst prediction ever in 4 months.   But for now, I am going not going to set the bar too high.

Agreed.  I'm hopeful for this team, but there are a lot of ifs, ands or buts.

I agree with Sultan that I'm thinking 7-10 seed range. It was just the Madness scrimmage, but our outside shooting looked much better (couldn't really get worse). Henry is better than anyone we had last year. I think Wally could give us a lot of what Juan did (and Juan was a starter and people are talking about Wally as a 7th man).

Luke being healthy. I don't have any stats to back it up, but I assume Luke blocked many shots with his good arm. Fighting for position and going up with two hands for a rebound would be much more difficult with a bum shoulder than blocking shots.

I'm still worried about defense and turnovers from our guards. Freshman PG and JJJ hasn't been great at taking care of the ball. However, there's a lot to be optimistic about this team. If we get some breaks and players have developed well, we could be in for a fun year.

Quote from: tower912 on October 31, 2015, 10:14:05 AM
I think Henry is going to be very good.      I just don't understand how anyone can predict that a team with.....

(A) 10 scholarship players.
(B) 3 of whom are taller than 6'6
(C) 5 of whom are freshmen
(D)  off of a 13-19 team that lost a lot of scoring and rebounding
(E) with two freshman point guards, one of whom was not a point guard in high school

....is a second weekend of the tournament team.   Pure homerism.   I would never predict those kind of things for a team that wasn't MU, unless it was another one of Kentucky's ridiculous freshman classes.    Too many things have to go right along with no injuries to Luke, Henry, Duane, or Traci for this team to sniff the big dance.    I hope this gets thrown in my face as the worst prediction ever in 4 months.   But for now, I am going not going to set the bar too high.

Or you could see a...
(A) A Top 10 freshman who could start on any team in the country
(B) A surgically repaired, highest rated Big East center in the coaches' preseason poll
(C) An All-Big Freshman shooting guard who led all conference freshmen in scoring
(D) A true pass and shoot point freshman guard who dropped deeply in the recruiting ratings because of knee surgery that he is now 100% recovered from finally and who has been the highest flyer in Italy and preseason in terms of development.
(E) Two top 100 threes who have vastly improved in the off season aspects of their frame or game...notably shooting in space which there will be plenty off with A-D in place this season.
(F) Throw in three freshmen who can adequately play significant roles off the bench as part of a Top 10 recruiting class.
(G) These are Wojo's guys

Quote from: tower912 on October 31, 2015, 10:14:05 AM
I think Henry is going to be very good.      I just don't understand how anyone can predict that a team with.....

(A) 10 scholarship players.
(B) 3 of whom are taller than 6'6
(C) 5 of whom are freshmen
(D)  off of a 13-19 team that lost a lot of scoring and rebounding
(E) with two freshman point guards, one of whom was not a point guard in high school

....is a second weekend of the tournament team.   Pure homerism.   I would never predict those kind of things for a team that wasn't MU, unless it was another one of Kentucky's ridiculous freshman classes.    Too many things have to go right along with no injuries to Luke, Henry, Duane, or Traci for this team to sniff the big dance.    I hope this gets thrown in my face as the worst prediction ever in 4 months.   But for now, I am going not going to set the bar too high.

Yup.  As I was reading your post I thought to myself "man, this is going to be the first post on Brew's 3-page long boast post when MU makes the Sweet 16."

Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on October 30, 2015, 06:13:04 PM
I am fairly confident that the newcomers will be more effective basketball players than Juan, Derrick and Steve Taylor JR. Is that better?

I doubt that.

If I want to see half naked girls, there is that thing called Google. I don't care to see it when I come to scoop to read about Marquette basketball. Not really that outrageous.

Not even close.  C'mon man.   Mostly fully clothed attractive women.
Never trolled Google and never will. 

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on October 31, 2015, 10:54:42 AM
Or you could see a...
(A) A Top 10 freshman who could start on any team in the country
(B) A surgically repaired, highest rated Big East center in the coaches' preseason poll
(C) An All-Big Freshman shooting guard who led all conference freshmen in scoring
(D) A true pass and shoot point freshman guard who dropped deeply in the recruiting ratings because of knee surgery that he is now 100% recovered from finally and who has been the highest flyer in Italy and preseason in terms of development.
(E) Two top 100 threes who have vastly improved in the off season aspects of their frame or game...notably shooting in space which there will be plenty off with A-D in place this season.
(F) Throw in three freshmen who can adequately play significant roles off the bench as part of a Top 10 recruiting class.
(G) These are Wojo's guys

Glass 100% full attitude. I love it. I am cautiously feeling the same way.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on October 31, 2015, 10:54:42 AM
Or you could see a...
(A) A Top 10 freshman who could start on any team in the country
(B) A surgically repaired, highest rated Big East center in the coaches' preseason poll
(C) An All-Big Freshman shooting guard who led all conference freshmen in scoring
(D) A true pass and shoot point freshman guard who dropped deeply in the recruiting ratings because of knee surgery that he is now 100% recovered from finally and who has been the highest flyer in Italy and preseason in terms of development.
(E) Two top 100 threes who have vastly improved in the off season aspects of their frame or game...notably shooting in space which there will be plenty off with A-D in place this season.
(F) Throw in three freshmen who can adequately play significant roles off the bench as part of a Top 10 recruiting class.
(G) These are Wojo's guys

That is the ceiling and certainly the preferred scenario.   Just like everybody else, I would prefer for you to be right and for me to be that guy who was a real Debbie-downer in the preseason.    But it isn't where I would place my money.   

Quote from: tower912 on October 31, 2015, 03:23:34 PM
That is the ceiling and certainly the preferred scenario.   Just like everybody else, I would prefer for you to be right and for me to be that guy who was a real Debbie-downer in the preseason.    But it isn't where I would place my money.

Both of you are right. The difference is most of Tower's points are cold hard facts. A lot of the good doctor's points are speculation. I think somewhere in the middle is the actual right answer. Hoping Dr. B is the more correct of the two

I'll be very happy with a .500 record in conference play and a thorough drubbing of Wisconsin.

Quote from: DoggyDaddy on October 31, 2015, 06:04:28 PM
I'll be very happy with a .500 record in conference play and a thorough drubbing of Wisconsin.

I'll co-sign. Frankly, assuming the remainder of the schedule goes as such:

Beat all non-Power 6 Opponents (Belmont, IUPUI, Jackson St., Grambling, Maine, SJ State, Chgo St, Presby, Stetson)
Go no worse than 1-2 against non-UW Power 6 (Iowa, LSU, NC St/AZ St)
One-and-Done in Big East Tournament

MU would be heading into Selection Sunday with a record of 20-12, with wins over Wisconsin, Iowa, and perhaps 1-2 of the Big East's elite. You might not make the tournament with that mark, but you'd definitely be in the conversation.

Quote from: tower912 on October 31, 2015, 10:14:05 AM
I think Henry is going to be very good.      I just don't understand how anyone can predict that a team with.....

(A) 10 scholarship players.
(B) 3 of whom are taller than 6'6
(C) 5 of whom are freshmen
(D)  off of a 13-19 team that lost a lot of scoring and rebounding
(E) with two freshman point guards, one of whom was not a point guard in high school

....is a second weekend of the tournament team.   Pure homerism.   I would never predict those kind of things for a team that wasn't MU, unless it was another one of Kentucky's ridiculous freshman classes.    Too many things have to go right along with no injuries to Luke, Henry, Duane, or Traci for this team to sniff the big dance.    I hope this gets thrown in my face as the worst prediction ever in 4 months.   But for now, I am going not going to set the bar too high.

Out of curiosity, which team would you feel better about?  The team above or the team below.....

1) Lost their (honorable mention) All-American point guard - and the team's top scorer last year - to graduation,
2) Lost two other starters, and the team's top rebounders, who averaged >14 RPG between them last year,
3) Is returning only one starter who averaged double-digits scoring last year,
4) Aside from one other starter averaged 8.1 pts and 2.0 rebounds per game last year, is returning a bunch of "role players," led by an undersized sophomore power-forward who averaged 6 points & 4 rebounds in 15 minutes last year,
5) Is projecting to start three freshmen, whose consensus ratings are 36, 57 & 61, at PG/SG/SF, respectively,
6) Doesn't have a center on the roster who's good for more than a few minutes off the bench, and
7) Is coming off a disappointing 19-12 campaign last year (7-9 in conference) that was capped off by an early exit from the NIT.

We're not them.  And the amigos turned out better than anyone anticipated and combined to make Novak a hero.   

Quote from: tower912 on November 02, 2015, 12:30:18 PM
We're not them.

Duane, Luke, and Henry will all be better this year than any of the 3 Amigos were as freshmen.  If only we had Novak...

Quote from: tower912 on November 02, 2015, 12:30:18 PM
We're not them.  And the amigos turned out better than anyone anticipated and combined to make Novak a hero.   

All I'm saying is that, 10 years ago today, if the lot of us were predicting that team to finish with a 4-seed in the BET and make the dance as a 7-seed, I'm sure you would've been calling us homers back then, too.

Homers?   Maybe.   Overly optimistic?    To be sure.   IMO, the best coaching job Crean did.    May lightning strike twice.   

Quote from: tower912 on November 02, 2015, 01:32:38 PM
Homers?   Maybe.   Overly optimistic?    To be sure.   IMO, the best coaching job Crean did.    May lightning strike twice.

Well, I'm hoping for it to strike a few more times than twice (at least before my bottle breaks), but I'll concede starting with "twice" and seeing how things go from there.

http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php?id=men_s_basketball:2005

Ten years, looking back at that roster..... other than the stars, I would take Fitz, Lott, or Chapman on this team.  Although Lott WAS a JUCO, as was Kinsella.   (gasp! 2 on one roster!)  Amo's one-hit wonder in the Great Alaskan Shootout.    Of course, Novak against UConn.

Quote from: tower912 on November 02, 2015, 01:52:13 PM
http://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php?id=men_s_basketball:2005

Ten years, looking back at that roster..... other than the stars, I would take Fitz, Lott, or Chapman on this team.  Although Lott WAS a JUCO, as was Kinsella.   (gasp! 2 on one roster!)  Amo's one-hit wonder in the Great Alaskan Shootout.    Of course, Novak against UConn.

I'd take any of those guys, too.  Hell, I'd take two since we've got a couple scholarships available.

Quote from: tower912 on October 31, 2015, 10:14:05 AM
I think Henry is going to be very good.      I just don't understand how anyone can predict that a team with.....

(A) 10 scholarship players.
(B) 3 of whom are taller than 6'6
(C) 5 of whom are freshmen
(D)  off of a 13-19 team that lost a lot of scoring and rebounding
(E) with two freshman point guards, one of whom was not a point guard in high school

....is a second weekend of the tournament team.   Pure homerism.   I would never predict those kind of things for a team that wasn't MU, unless it was another one of Kentucky's ridiculous freshman classes.    Too many things have to go right along with no injuries to Luke, Henry, Duane, or Traci for this team to sniff the big dance.    I hope this gets thrown in my face as the worst prediction ever in 4 months.   But for now, I am going not going to set the bar too high.

My current outlook is 9-4 out of conference. 7-11 in conference (6-3 home 1-8 away) and 1 and 1 in BET overall record 17-16 and no tournament. That is providing no major injuries.

I like our team, but reality is the Big East is a tough conference  where every game will be a battle.

I think some people are 1) vastly under rating our talent and 2) vastly overrating our conference.

Quote from: wadesworld on November 03, 2015, 10:36:16 PM
I think some people are 1) vastly under rating our talent and 2) vastly overrating our conference.

1) Agree and 2) Agree

Quote from: wadesworld on November 03, 2015, 10:36:16 PM
I think some people are 1) vastly under rating our talent and 2) vastly overrating our conference.

Also think that fans will extrapolate a conclusion from the non-conference that will not reflect reality of the conference season.  The few tough games we have in non-con will likely be losses as this team figures out it's talent but by the time conference season rolls around they should be playing at their best and will have a strong BEast campaign.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on October 30, 2015, 02:18:28 PM
There is no such thing as addition by subtraction in basketball, unless you replace their scholarships with better players. Any player is better than an empty seat on the bench, which we have two of.

Anthony Mason, meet TAMU. TAMU, meet Anthony Mason.

Quote from: mu03eng on November 04, 2015, 08:23:37 AM
Also think that fans will extrapolate a conclusion from the non-conference that will not reflect reality of the conference season.  The few tough games we have in non-con will likely be losses as this team figures out it's talent but by the time conference season rolls around they should be playing at their best and will have a strong BEast campaign.

Yup, agreed.

There's a lot of agreeing going on in here lately.  Am I on the right board?

Quote from: WarriorInNYC on November 04, 2015, 12:18:03 PM
There's a lot of agreeing going on in here lately.  Am I on the right board?

What the hell are you talking about?

Quote from: WarriorInNYC on November 04, 2015, 12:18:03 PM
There's a lot of agreeing going on in here lately.  Am I on the right board?

I disagree.

Quote from: WarriorInNYC on November 04, 2015, 12:18:03 PM
There's a lot of agreeing going on in here lately.  Am I on the right board?

Apparently no one here played high school basketball

Revisiting this heading into the BE.  My expectations are still the same. 

Discuss...

I said 11-2 non-con (check), 11-7 Big East (feels realistic), and 2-1 at MSG. Still feel that's pretty realistic.

Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on December 28, 2015, 08:25:56 AM
Revisiting this heading into the BE.  My expectations are still the same. 

Discuss...

Agree, mine haven't changed a bit. 

To me the Seton Hall game will set the tone for the Big East season. I think Seton Hall right now is the favorite for the 5th bid, which might be the last Big East bid. I see it as a must win. We are in a world of hurt, if we cannot win this game. Lose this game and we are looking to at a 4-5 home record in conference. There is no reason to believe we can beat any at the top four teams at our place, if we cannot beat Seton Hall.

Had us at 10-2 at this point of the season.  Think I had us for a big BE season.  I don't think we get as many BE wins as I originally predicted, as the BE is tougher than I thought it was going to be, but I still expect a top 4 BE finish and to be dancing, being a dangerous team come Tourney time.

Quote from: bilsu on December 28, 2015, 10:26:00 AM
To me the Seton Hall game will set the tone for the Big East season. I think Seton Hall right now is the favorite for the 5th bid, which might be the last Big East bid. I see it as a must win. We are in a world of hurt, if we cannot win this game. Lose this game and we are looking to at a 4-5 home record in conference. There is no reason to believe we can beat any at the top four teams at our place, if we cannot beat Seton Hall.

We are going to lose a game we "shouldn't" somewhere along the way, and we are going to win a game we "shouldn't" somewhere along the way.  A loss at home to a team that you consider the 5th best team in the BE does not at all mean we can't beat 1 of the 4 teams above them in the pecking order at home.  Nor does a win on Wednesday mean we can't lose to a team like Creighton at home.

My expectations for how the team will play haven't changed but I think the results are a little more pessimistic.  I think top to bottom, the Big East is better than I thought and I think Marquette is about where I thought they'd be, ergo they will not perform quite as well as I thought.  I think they go 10-8 and 2-1 in MSG and miss the tournament as the first four out.

I'm still worried about how our PGs will do against the likes of DSR and Dunn. I predicted we would be "bubblicious" (direct quote) and I still think thats right. I predict a 5th or 6th place BEast finish.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 28, 2015, 12:22:46 PM
I'm still worried about how our PGs will do against the likes of DSR and Dunn. I predicted we would be "bubblicious" (direct quote) and I still think thats right. I predict a 5th or 6th place BEast finish.

KenPom has us projected as 8th which I think is overly pessimistic.  Currently has Creighton, Seton Hall and Georgetown ahead of us....I think we can certainly top 2 of the 3 of those....the trick will be topping all 3.

I do have concerns at the PG spot, but other teams have to be concerned with our front court as well so it'll be a real chess match in conference play.

Quote from: wadesworld on December 28, 2015, 10:29:26 AM
We are going to lose a game we "shouldn't" somewhere along the way, and we are going to win a game we "shouldn't" somewhere along the way.  A loss at home to a team that you consider the 5th best team in the BE does not at all mean we can't beat 1 of the 4 teams above them in the pecking order at home.  Nor does a win on Wednesday mean we can't lose to a team like Creighton at home.

With our strength of schedule we have no room to lose a game we should not lose. Besides that, if the RPI means anything, this is a game we should not win.

I think we can all agree a 3 seed for the Hoyas is out of the question  ;D

This is going to be a damned fun year to be a Marquette fan. I think there is no margin for error and that is the problem. But I like how far we have come since Bert left the cupboard bare.

Quote from: keefe on December 28, 2015, 04:42:50 PM
This is going to be a damned fun year to be a Marquette fan. I think there is no margin for error and that is the problem. But I like how far we have come since Bert left the cupboard bare.

Even a zoomie gets it 100% right every once in a while.

MU is better than I thought they would be at the start of the season.   The Big East is much better than I thought it would be at the start of the season.    Net push.  Still feeling NIT.   

I would be very surprised if this squad makes it to the dance.

Quote from: mu03eng on December 28, 2015, 05:04:22 PM
Even a zoomie gets it 100% right every once in a while.

Worth calling out but not worth its own thread in the Superbar........I'm a big fan of Navy's helmets today (plus a nice Win over an ACC team)

Quote from: tower912 on December 28, 2015, 05:08:24 PM
MU is better than I thought they would be at the start of the season.   The Big East is much better than I thought it would be at the start of the season.    Net push.  Still feeling NIT.

You hit on it, Tower. At the beginning of the season, if I knew MU would be this good, I would have said NCAAs. But, like you, I thought the BE would be down a little this year.

It's gonna be tough. I think we will have a little better handle on how things might turn out after the game tomorrow. Seton Hall is 10-2. Their schedule has been much tougher than ours. We cannot lose to them at home.

Quote from: brandx on December 28, 2015, 10:23:12 PM
You hit on it, Tower. At the beginning of the season, if I knew MU would be this good, I would have said NCAAs. But, like you, I thought the BE would be down a little this year.

It's gonna be tough. I think we will have a little better handle on how things might turn out after the game tomorrow. Seton Hall is 10-2. Their schedule has been much tougher than ours. We cannot lose to them at home.

No game tomorrow  ;).

I won't be overly concerned if we lose Wednesday because we are so young. We may get blown out...and then return the favor at their place later in the season. They have talent, we have talent, they will play above their norm at times this season and so will we, they'll play really bad at times this season and so will we. We'll see which team shows up ready to go Wednesday.

Quote from: wadesworld on December 28, 2015, 10:50:21 PM
No game tomorrow  ;).

I won't be overly concerned if we lose Wednesday because we are so young. We may get blown out...and then return the favor at their place later in the season. They have talent, we have talent, they will play above their norm at times this season and so will we, they'll play really bad at times this season and so will we. We'll see which team shows up ready to go Wednesday.

We have Henry,I think he's just starting to hit his stride playing with his teammates!

If Wojo plays to win this year and not develop a PG for the future I think we are surprise team of BE. My gut tells me he plays to win and goes with experienced guys at PG. This is big year for program and believe he swings for fences to win at all cost.

Quote from: Goose on December 29, 2015, 11:19:29 AM
If Wojo plays to win this year and not develop a PG for the future I think we are surprise team of BE. My gut tells me he plays to win and goes with experienced guys at PG. This is big year for program and believe he swings for fences to win at all cost.

Yep. I know Duane is 3rd in minutes, but every time he's out there I find myself saying "he needs to play more."

Quote from: Goose on December 29, 2015, 11:19:29 AM
If Wojo plays to win this year and not develop a PG for the future I think we are surprise team of BE. My gut tells me he plays to win and goes with experienced guys at PG. This is big year for program and believe he swings for fences to win at all cost.

Under that mindset, how would you break down minutes at the point per game?

Windy

Only know that if I were coach Carter would be a role player moving forward as competition gets much better. Whoever can play composure, is capable to score and get the ball moving in transition would be my guy. We have guys that can score and we need to push the ball and get some easy buckets.

Quote from: Goose on December 29, 2015, 12:36:38 PM
Windy

Only know that if I were coach Carter would be a role player moving forward as competition gets much better. Whoever can play composure, is capable to score and get the ball moving in transition would be my guy. We have guys that can score and we need to push the ball and get some easy buckets.

I get what goose is saying. I like the idea of Cheat playing point in BE play cause of his slashing ability. But then again he is TO prone.
I do think Carter is the PG of the future for this team so he should continue to start.
I think Woj keeps with the lineup we have been playing with, but wouldn't be surprised to see DWil come in earlier than normal in these games.

I have no problem with how Wojo has deployed his PGs these last 5 weeks (and yes, I'm sure he's glad to hear I approve).

He has started Carter. When Carter has done well, Wojo has stayed with him longer. When Carter has struggled, Wojo hasn't hesitated going with a Duane-Haanif combo (or Duane-Haanif-JJJ combo).

It makes sense to continue doing it that way.

Quote from: fjm on December 29, 2015, 12:39:53 PM
I get what goose is saying. I like the idea of Cheat playing point in BE play cause of his slashing ability. But then again he is TO prone.
I do think Carter is the PG of the future for this team so he should continue to start.
I think Woj keeps with the lineup we have been playing with, but wouldn't be surprised to see DWil come in earlier than normal in these games.

This sounds like the Right approach to me.

I still feel the same with my prediction, maybe too optimistic but I compared this team to last years that lost some very close games in BE and lost two OT games as well. I still think we win 11 games, make the tourney and maybe snag a win in the tourney.
We are younger than last year but more talented. And last year had we not had a hurt carlino and blown close games we could have easily been an 18 or 19 win team.
21 wins, we make the tourney barely and get a W.

The problem with Traci not playing the point is we don't really have anyone else that does play the point.

Cheatham is great at slashing along the baseline or pulling up for a three, but he isn't a great distributor and turns it over too much to be the point.

Duane is better at both aspects, but still plays more like a volume scorer than a point. Maybe he'd be better at it now, but it seemed like in the first three games, the coaches were expecting him to run the point and Traci to be the point off the bench. That didn't work out so well for us.

The simple reality is the only point guard on our roster is a freshman. When it comes to providing for others, breaking the press, and demonstrating the willingness to let others shoot, Traci is the only guy that fits the bill.

I really hope Rowsey can take some of that pressure next year, and would be over the moon if we could land Markus Howard in 2017 to give us another legit PG on the roster.

Quote from: Goose on December 29, 2015, 12:36:38 PM
Only know that if I were coach Carter would be a role player moving forward as competition gets much better. Whoever can play composure, is capable to score and get the ball moving in transition would be my guy. We have guys that can score and we need to push the ball and get some easy buckets.

I know you're not a Carter fan, but like others, I don't think Wojo is going to suddenly change the lineup -- especially since it's been working.  If we go on a losing streak, all bets are off.

Rocky

Really am neutral on Carter at this point. Just feel with the two big boys and some athletic combo players that can score I would prefer experience to on the job training. Again, no bad Carter feelings here.

So where do the 14 of us pick up our prizes?

Quote from: keefe on October 27, 2015, 10:00:37 PM
Wow. Your Tanned Tommy Man Love is showing

You were saying?   8-)   

Quote from: tower912 on October 31, 2015, 10:14:05 AM
I think Henry is going to be very good.      I just don't understand how anyone can predict that a team with.....

(A) 10 scholarship players.
(B) 3 of whom are taller than 6'6
(C) 5 of whom are freshmen
(D)  off of a 13-19 team that lost a lot of scoring and rebounding
(E) with two freshman point guards, one of whom was not a point guard in high school

....is a second weekend of the tournament team.   Pure homerism.   I would never predict those kind of things for a team that wasn't MU, unless it was another one of Kentucky's ridiculous freshman classes.    Too many things have to go right along with no injuries to Luke, Henry, Duane, or Traci for this team to sniff the big dance.    I hope this gets thrown in my face as the worst prediction ever in 4 months.   But for now, I am going not going to set the bar too high.

Halloween!   I only wish I could predict lottery numbers this well.

I just re-read the first few pages of this - very interesting thread - we should do it every year.  Here is what I took away

1. We didn't know yet how much experience would trump talent/potential (except for a few)
2. The trajectory of improvement throughout the year was probably the biggest miss -- the magnitude was somewhat expected - we just all thought we would catch that March lightning in a bottle by peaking late
3. We broadly didn't meet the most pessimistic 'call' - I didnt see a lot saying NO Postseason
4. There were a lot bringing up their concerns about 16/17 pretty early -- saw a few worried about what happens when HE leaves

For all those bumping the thread -- we arent going to the CBI or NIT so your partial credit prize was not having to watch the CBS selection show and worry about MU's seed (great prize).

Lot's of work to do for next year -- go Wojo.

Went back and saw that I expected the NIT.  Missed that by a DePaul home loss probably.  Not going to harp on that individual game because we won more than our share of super close ones too.  The three highlights for me had to be winning NYC, beating Bucky, and the great GTown finish.  Far too many low lights, especially at home, for my taste however.

I made it to 17 games.  Chick got to 18.  For the first time in several years we didn't do an annual road-trip.  We also skipped the DePaul 'home' game.  I would have enjoyed Vegas on TV and/or in person but it wasn't to be.  Last year at this time I was pumped about Henry and the rest of the Frosh.  This year, not so much.  I guess we'll see what Wojo pulls off to relight the fire.

Quote from: jsglow on March 14, 2016, 07:37:14 AM
Went back and saw that I expected the NIT.  Missed that by a DePaul home loss probably.  Not going to harp on that individual game because we won more than our share of super close ones too.  The three highlights for me had to be winning NYC, beating Bucky, and the great GTown finish.  Far too many low lights, especially at home, for my taste however.

I made it to 17 games.  Chick got to 18.  For the first time in several years we didn't do an annual road-trip.  We also skipped the DePaul 'home' game.  I would have enjoyed Vegas on TV and/or in person but it wasn't to be.  Last year at this time I was pumped about Henry and the rest of the Frosh.  This year, not so much.  I guess we'll see what Wojo pulls off to relight the fire.

It was a tough pill to swallow to have the season go the way it did. To be frank, I've felt exhausted...it's the opposite of the year for TBW with Jimmy. Lost a lot of close games and got hit hard in others.

I truly believe that a PF grad or signing goes a long way into making me feel pretty good about next year. If Markus Howard comes here, I've even more stoked. The team was young, but it's a hell of a foundation to build from. Next year is a tourney team. Unfortunately we have a lot of time to mull over that fact with the offseason.

Quote from: jsglow on March 14, 2016, 07:37:14 AM
Went back and saw that I expected the NIT.  Missed that by a DePaul home loss probably.  Not going to harp on that individual game because we won more than our share of super close ones too.  The three highlights for me had to be winning NYC, beating Bucky, and the great GTown finish.  Far too many low lights, especially at home, for my taste however.

I made it to 17 games.  Chick got to 18.  For the first time in several years we didn't do an annual road-trip.  We also skipped the DePaul 'home' game.  I would have enjoyed Vegas on TV and/or in person but it wasn't to be.  Last year at this time I was pumped about Henry and the rest of the Frosh.  This year, not so much.  I guess we'll see what Wojo pulls off to relight the fire.

The amount of spots taken by conference auto bids really hurt.  Those of us saying NIT team, probably would have nailed it if so many conference champions hadn't lost in their tourney.  It is funny reading some of the NCAA hopefuls in this thread....fandom does crazy things to logic and people's brains.   

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 14, 2016, 11:29:21 AM
The amount of spots taken by conference auto bids really hurt.  Those of us saying NIT team, probably would have nailed it if so many conference champions hadn't lost in their tourney.  It is funny reading some of the NCAA hopefuls in this thread....fandom does crazy things to logic and people's brains.

The double edged sword of fandom: the highs are higher, but the lows sure do feel low.

Quote from: JakeBarnes on March 14, 2016, 11:47:57 AM
The double edged sword of fandom: the highs are higher, but the lows sure do feel low.

Yup, though I have found that age mellows out the highs and lows quite a bit. 

Quote from: JakeBarnes on March 14, 2016, 11:47:57 AM
The double edged sword of fandom: the highs are higher, but the lows sure do feel low.

Amen.

I don't feel bad about how I felt about this team.  I overestimated the development of some of the returning players, but mostly, I completely missed the mark on both 3pt. shooting and T/O expectations.

In short, Henry lived up to expectations, which I had anticipated would have a two-pronged benefit: both Fischer and Henry would have more favorable matchups and better looks at the hoop and our guards would have more wide open looks from the perimeter.  As it turned out:

1) The needle didn't actually move at all on Fischer's FG%, FGA, PPG or APG.
2) As a team, MU had fewer 3PA's (1 less per game, on average) and fell 50 bps on team 3P% year-over-year.

Moreover, MU had three* guys (JJJ, HC & SCIII) whose individual 3P% was better than the NCAA average, yet collectively, they had a mere 6.5 attempts per game; Henry - on the other hand - had nearly half as many attempts as those three combined (3.2) despite shooting 28.8%.  NCAA team average was 20 3PA per game, MU only attempted 17.3.

(*excluding Sacar who had 5 attempts on the season)

My opinion is simply that the game plan at the beginning of the season was not executed.  Henry put up some gaudy stats, but unfortunately, the guys around him didn't improve.  Why?  I have no clue... whether that's on Henry, his teammates or the coaching staff, I have no opinion, but it certainly wasn't the result I was expecting.

As to the T/O's... I simply expected them to be somewhere near where they were last year (12.5) or at least the NCAA average (12.7); as it turned out, only 23 teams in all of D-I had more T/O's per game than Marquette (14.7).  Though somewhat mitigated by the fact MU ended #29 in the country in SPG, two fewer T/O's per game all but covers the differential in the Creighton, DePaul and Belmont losses.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 14, 2016, 11:49:53 AM
Yup, though I have found that age mellows out the highs and lows quite a bit.

Yup. Even 5 years ago I was a lot more bummed out by the highs and lows. Pushing 40, I just take it as it comes. Honestly, my hope is just to see Marquette win a title in my lifetime. Not sure that will happen, but no sense in getting overly worked up. Not worth the stress.

Quote from: brewcity77 on March 15, 2016, 04:53:40 PM
Yup. Even 5 years ago I was a lot more bummed out by the highs and lows. Pushing 40, I just take it as it comes. Honestly, my hope is just to see Marquette win a title in my lifetime. Not sure that will happen, but no sense in getting overly worked up. Not worth the stress.

At 40, the sweater vest arrives in the mail, it shrinks in the wash, and the midriff is tighter. Every loss, every empty student seat, every obscene cheer becomes a personal offense. The crocheted seams bust out one after the other with each and every yeast encapsulated beer. The good old days of Dukiet become more fondly remembered.  TC's and Buzz's personality disorders become quaint.  And then you die.

But $2 pitchers at Caff's with a game ticket followed by a Marquette special with extra onions, cheese and sour cream provide the Bittersweet Symphony needed to again reup on your season tickets every June.

Quote from: brewcity77 on March 15, 2016, 04:53:40 PM
Yup. Even 5 years ago I was a lot more bummed out by the highs and lows. Pushing 40, I just take it as it comes. Honestly, my hope is just to see Marquette win a title in my lifetime. Not sure that will happen, but no sense in getting overly worked up. Not worth the stress.

I always assumed that you were class of 77 or just repping the championship year in your monicker (clearly not focusing on the context of what I'm sure have been dozens of posts about your MU history etc). Kind of took me aback - put MU BBall history in perspective for you to say that MU had not won in your lifetime.

Quote from: LloydsLegs on March 15, 2016, 10:36:21 PM
I always assumed that you were class of 77 or just repping the championship year in your monicker (clearly not focusing on the context of what I'm sure have been dozens of posts about your MU history etc). Kind of took me aback - put MU BBall history in perspective for you to say that MU had not won in your lifetime.

Born in '77, been using that moniker before I even got to Marquette ;)

They did technically win in my lifetime, but as I was only 35 days old on the day Al wept and we cut down nets at the Omni, it's not exactly the freshest of memories for me.

Quote from: brewcity77 on March 15, 2016, 04:53:40 PM
Yup. Even 5 years ago I was a lot more bummed out by the highs and lows. Pushing 40, I just take it as it comes. Honestly, my hope is just to see Marquette win a title in my lifetime. Not sure that will happen, but no sense in getting overly worked up. Not worth the stress.

I feel ya. I used to live and die with every MU win and loss. Now, not so much. Heck, I don't even watch every game that's available to me. Too many other things to do. Does that make me a bad fan/alum? Maybe, but I can live with that.