MUScoop

After 5 years Mike Deane's coaching record was 100 wins 55 losses.
1994-95 21-12 NIT Finals
1995-96 23-8  NCAA Second Round
1996-97 22-9  NCAA First Round
1997-98 20-11 NIT Quarter Finals
1998-99 14-15

After 18 games his first year  Deane was 11-7 versus Wojo 10-8

Will Wojo outperform Mike Deane over 5 years? Outperform defined as either a better record or better tournament performance.

FFS.

Quote from: Texas Western on January 23, 2015, 11:04:14 AM
After 5 years Mike Deane's coaching record was 100 wins 55 losses.
1994-95 21-12 NIT Finals
1995-96 23-8  NCAA Second Round
1996-97 22-9  NCAA First Round
1997-98 20-11 NIT Quarter Finals
1998-99 14-15

After 18 games his first year  Deane was 11-7 versus Wojo 10-8

Will Wojo outperform Mike Deane over 5 years? Outperform defined as either a better record or better tournament performance.

No Thanks.

Wojo understands recruiting is the lifeblood of a program, younger than Mike, Mike did not want to recruit.

I voted yes (partly based on expectations of post-season success in future years), but I think the idea of using first-year records is flawed.  Marquette went 24-9 in the year before Deane.  Marquette went 10-8 last year.  O'Neil left a successful program in which he actually coached in his final year.  Buzz?  Not so much.  Revise the poll to judge Wojo starting in year 2, and this makes a lot more sense.  That won't eliminate the entire Buzz hangover, but it gets to the root of the real question more effectively.  

Did Deane ever bring in a top 10 recruiting class? Cause Wojo did that in his first year....

Quote from: sroirraw on January 23, 2015, 11:17:43 AM
I voted yes (partly based on expectations of post-season success in future years), but I think the idea of using first-year records is flawed.  Marquette went 24-9 in the year before Deane.  Marquette went 10-8 last year.  O'Neil left a successful program in which he actually coached in his final year.  Buzz?  Not so much.  Revise the poll to judge Wojo starting in year 2, and this makes a lot more sense.  That won't eliminate the entire Buzz hangover, but it gets to the root of the real question more effectively.  

I thought about that, but I figured Wojo coming in with his Duke pedigree offset. We also know he has a top 10 recruiting class in hand. So I think it is a reasonable question.

Deane could actually coach players. Wojo we don't know yet.

Are these seriously things we are talking about with a coach who hasn't been here a year, has brought in a national top 10 class for next year and has been competitive in a tough conference with 8 players of whom 2 had average more than 15 minutes a game in any previous season????

This definitely goes down as one of the more stupid polls I've seen on here over the years. 

Quote from: mu03eng on January 23, 2015, 11:23:42 AM
Are these seriously things we are talking about with a coach who hasn't been here a year, has brought in a national top 10 class for next year and has been competitive in a tough conference with 8 players of whom 2 had average more than 15 minutes a game in any previous season????

So with all that do you think he can out perform Deane over 5 years?

First, pedigree is irrelevant to my point.  He inherited a considerably worse team.  Pedigree doesn't help that, unless you attribute the recruitment of Carlino to pedigree.  

Second, I'm already convinced that Wojo can coach.  If you're able to access old games, watch Marquette's defense at the beginning of the season.  Then watch the defense in recent games.  Marquette went from awful to one of the best defensive teams in the Big East.  How did they do that?  Wojo took a team that had rarely (if ever) played zone, and taught them to play it...even though Duke historically hasn't had to resort to zone defenses.  

To look at it differently, look at this year's lineup versus last year's lineup.  We lost our two centers and our power forward...and yet our records are remarkably similar, and we haven't been blown out of a single game.  Last game, we were in a position to win in the last minute despite three of our eight players combining for two points in 64 minutes.  I wish we had fewer offensively-challenged players, but that is what Wojo inherited...and I would argue that he's doing pretty well with what he's got.  

Quote from: sroirraw on January 23, 2015, 11:37:40 AM
First, pedigree is irrelevant to my point.  He inherited a considerably worse team.  Pedigree doesn't help that, unless you attribute the recruitment of Carlino to pedigree.  

Second, I'm already convinced that Wojo can coach.  If you're able to access old games, watch Marquette's defense at the beginning of the season.  Then watch the defense in recent games.  Marquette went from awful to one of the best defensive teams in the Big East.  How did they do that?  Wojo took a team that had rarely (if ever) played zone, and taught them to play it...even though Duke historically hasn't had to resort to zone defenses.  

To look at it differently, look at this year's lineup versus last year's lineup.  We lost our two centers and our power forward...and yet our records are remarkably similar, and we haven't been blown out of a single game.  Last game, we were in a position to win in the last minute despite three of our eight players combining for two points in 64 minutes.  I wish we had fewer offensively-challenged players, but that is what Wojo inherited...and I would argue that he's doing pretty well with what he's got.  

Good points

This whole notion of Wojo having inherited a program in such shambles simply needs to stop.  What other MU coach came into a situation that had:

9 NCAA appearances in prior 10 years
3 Sweet 16's in three of the four prior years to taking over at MU
A roster with 7, Top 100 players on it upon arrival: Cohen, JJJ, Duane, Burton, Luke, Steve, Juan

I believe Wojo can coach X's and O's, and believe he'll be successful at MU in the way of getting to the NCAA tourney pretty consistently.  I do not think he will exceed what Buzz accomplished.  Nor will he exceed Deane's win/loss record his first 5 years.

Quote from: sroirraw on January 23, 2015, 11:37:40 AM

Second, I'm already convinced that Wojo can coach.  If you're able to access old games, watch Marquette's defense at the beginning of the season.  Then watch the defense in recent games.  Marquette went from awful to one of the best defensive teams in the Big East.  How did they do that?  Wojo took a team that had rarely (if ever) played zone, and taught them to play it...even though Duke historically hasn't had to resort to zone defenses.  

+1

18 games into his first season, we have someone legitimately asking if Wojo is going to be better than Mike Deane.  I mean, you can't make this sh*t up.

This place is like watching a home video show that shows people getting whacked in the nuts over and over.  You find yourself laughing, wondering why you find it funny, yet you continue to watch.

Remind us: Who transferred when KO left MU?

You are all focusing on Dino's skills on the hardwood. What about his skills as a womanizer? That is the crucial measure we are all forgetting. This Wojo guy seems like he's far too happy with his wife. Some might even suggest he's whipped. I would dare suggest that after 5 years Wojo will fall short of Mike Deane's prodigious accomplishments as a Lothario.  

Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on January 23, 2015, 11:27:24 AM
This definitely goes down as one of the more stupid polls I've seen on here over the years. 

Not sure about that.. maybe we need a poll to find out?

Ners...10 Big East coaches voted that Marquette would tie for 7th-8th in the Big East.  These are the same guys who scouted and battled against those top 100 players last year.  Sometimes high school rankings don't tell the story.  I don't want to call specific players out, but I think we can agree that at least two of those players probably shouldn't have been in the top 100, or their confidence has been beaten down so much in prior years that they are not playing that way.  Also, college coaches know...players learn from experience on the court.  Just 3 of those 7 top 100 guys had played meaningful college basketball minutes, and meaningful is a bit of a stretch for all three of them.  

And here I thought it couldn't get any more inane than Ners' Derrick obsession...  ::)

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 23, 2015, 12:00:42 PM
18 games into his first season, we have someone legitimately asking if Wojo is going to be better than Mike Deane.  I mean, you can't make this sh*t up.

This place is like watching a home video show that shows people getting whacked in the nuts over and over.  You find yourself laughing, wondering why you find it funny, yet you continue to watch.

So give us your point of view. Deane won 437 games in his career. I am just asking if Wojo will be better in the first five years than Deane was while he was here . You have the benefit of knowing that Wojo recruited Henry and Company.

I want to know if people think Wojo will be better than K was after five years at Duke.

85-65 overall
1 NIT (2 wins)
2 NCAAs (1 win total)

Also note that K inherited a program that was coming off three straight NCAA tournaments under Bill Foster, including a Final Four in 1978 and an Elite Eight in 1980.

I went ahead and voted for both because the poll is set to allow that. That way I can tell you all in five years that I knew it all along!

Quote from: sroirraw on January 23, 2015, 12:09:18 PM
Ners...10 Big East coaches voted that Marquette would tie for 7th-8th in the Big East.  These are the same guys who scouted and battled against those top 100 players last year.  Sometimes high school rankings don't tell the story.  I don't want to call specific players out, but I think we can agree that at least two of those players probably shouldn't have been in the top 100, or their confidence has been beaten down so much in prior years that they are not playing that way.  Also, college coaches know...players learn from experience on the court.  Just 3 of those 7 top 100 guys had played meaningful college basketball minutes, and meaningful is a bit of a stretch for all three of them.  

Please, no reality. It distorts the narrative.

Quote from: NersEllenson on January 23, 2015, 11:53:38 AM
This whole notion of Wojo having inherited a program in such shambles simply needs to stop.  What other MU coach came into a situation that had:

9 NCAA appearances in prior 10 years
3 Sweet 16's in three of the four prior years to taking over at MU
A roster with 7, Top 100 players on it upon arrival: Cohen, JJJ, Duane, Burton, Luke, Steve, Juan

I believe Wojo can coach X's and O's, and believe he'll be successful at MU in the way of getting to the NCAA tourney pretty consistently.  I do not think he will exceed what Buzz accomplished.  Nor will he exceed Deane's win/loss record his first 5 years.

Not sure how the bolded above is relevant in the team that Wojo inherited.  3 players on the current team had a tiny part in those numbers.

Fact of the matter is that he inherited a team that was picked to finish 7th-8th in the Big East and had lost the majority of its scoring and rebounding.

Quote from: dinger on January 23, 2015, 01:08:06 PM
I went ahead and voted for both because the poll is set to allow that. That way I can tell you all in five years that I knew it all along!

+1

Quote from: NersEllenson on January 23, 2015, 11:53:38 AM
This whole notion of Wojo having inherited a program in such shambles simply needs to stop.  What other MU coach came into a situation that had:

9 NCAA appearances in prior 10 years
3 Sweet 16's in three of the four prior years to taking over at MU
A roster with 7, Top 100 players on it upon arrival: Cohen, JJJ, Duane, Burton, Luke, Steve, Juan

I believe Wojo can coach X's and O's, and believe he'll be successful at MU in the way of getting to the NCAA tourney pretty consistently.  I do not think he will exceed what Buzz accomplished.  Nor will he exceed Deane's win/loss record his first 5 years.

It's actually 8 ncaa appearances in 9 years.  06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 11, 12, 13. I'll also accept 10/13 years.  

In any case Id say Raymonds but even he had much better players to work with and more balance than Wojo currently does.

Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on January 23, 2015, 01:17:45 PM

In any case Id say Raymonds but even he had much better players to work with and more balance than Wojo currently does.

Yep.  Not even close.

Hank inherited Lee, Whitehead, Boylan and Toone, Payne and Rosey.  And I believe the team was coming off a fairly successful season and a pretty good decade overall.

Based on:

How much fun I had drinking Bud Lights with Deano at Turner's after a win.  Deano is the clear winner.

Long time vision to build a quality program.  Wojo without a doubt.

As much fun as drinking with MD was,  I hope I never drink a beer with Wojo in my life.

I'm not even going to dignify this idiocy by voting. 

And the 12 who voted Deane are too stupid to comment on anything basketball.

Quote from: NersEllenson on January 23, 2015, 11:53:38 AM
This whole notion of Wojo having inherited a program in such shambles simply needs to stop.  What other MU coach came into a situation that had:

9 NCAA appearances in prior 10 years
3 Sweet 16's in three of the four prior years to taking over at MU
A roster with 7, Top 100 players on it upon arrival: Cohen, JJJ, Duane, Burton, Luke, Steve, Juan

1. It 8 out 9 NCAAs, not 9 out of 10, small mistake.
2. The more accurate statement is Wojo inherited a team that didn't make the NIT the previous season

3. I have a case study for you. Take a look at the 2014-2015 Florida Gator men's basketball team. Here is a powerhouse of a program. They have 8 top 100 players on their team (Frazier II, Finney-Smith, Murphy, Hill, C Walker, Chiozza, Francis, and Robinson. More than even Marquette has. Not only that, they have 4 players who were ranked higher than Marquette's highest rated player (Finney-Smith, Hill, C Walker, and Robinson).  Two of those four were consensus top 10 players coming out high school (Hill and C Walker). Their coach, Billy Donovan is a man of irreproachable reputation. I mean he's won two national championships. Obviously he can coach. As an added bonus, they have a full roster of players and 6 players taller than Steve Taylor to start the season. So by your assertion that high school rankings matter so much, they must be a final four caliber team. Or at least top 25.

They aren't. They are 10-8, same as us. They don't have a signature bad loss like ours to Omaha, but the loss to Florida State wasn't good. And their best win is over Yale.

The point is, high school rankings mean jack sh*t. It's about what you can do on the court. The rankings are sometimes (quite often) wrong. Sometimes the rankings are right in the moment but for whatever reason, the players don't develop. Some of that is on the coaches, some of it is on the players.

I can give you more examples of teams with several top 100 players on the roster who still ended up performing poorly. It's not a very uncommon phenomenon. Plus, in most of the other cases the team wasn't dealing with the challenges of having literally only 10 scholarship players, having a 6"7 starting center for most of the non-conference, having the parent of one of their star players passing away right before the season, or bringing in a brand new coach.

Quote from: Ellenson for an mu-rara on January 23, 2015, 01:29:15 PM
Based on:

How much fun I had drinking Bud Lights with Deano at Turner's after a win.  Deano is the clear winner.

Long time vision to build a quality program.  Wojo without a doubt.

As much fun as drinking with MD was,  I hope I never drink a beer with Wojo in my life.

Were you there when Dino bit the female attorney in the buttocks?

Deane did inherit a team that lost 3 starters, but he also inherited quite a bit of talent and only had 1 NCAA win to show for it.  It won't take much to beat his post season record.  And it's pretty safe to say that the talent in Wojo's 5th year will be light year's ahead of Deane's 5th year.

He inherited:
2 NBA players (Crawford and McCaskill)
2 of MU's top 3 shot blockers (McCaskill and Abraham)
2 of MU's top 4 assist leaders (Miller and Hutchins)
2 of MU's top 12 rebounders (Eford and McCaskill)
3 of MU's top 10 3pt shooters (Pieper, Hutchins, Eford)

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on January 23, 2015, 01:55:28 PM
I'm not even going to dignify this idiocy by voting. 

And the 12 who voted Deane are too stupid to comment on anything basketball.

So say that Wojo has a rough five years and has a worse record than Deane - are they still stupid?

Quote from: Norm on January 23, 2015, 02:22:47 PM
So say that Wojo has a rough five years and has a worse record than Deane - are they still stupid?

Yes then they didn't have a positive attitude toward our new coach or any of the highly rated players.

Quote from: keefe on January 23, 2015, 02:08:50 PM
Were you there when Dino bit the female attorney in the buttocks?

I missed out on that fun.

Quote from: HutchwasClutch on January 23, 2015, 01:55:28 PM
I'm not even going to dignify this idiocy by voting. 

And the 12 who voted Deane are too stupid to comment on anything basketball.

So I guess that means if you were to vote you would vote for Wojo. Stuff the ballot box.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 23, 2015, 02:02:22 PM
1. It 8 out 9 NCAAs, not 9 out of 10, small mistake.
2. The more accurate statement is Wojo inherited a team that didn't make the NIT the previous season

3. I have a case study for you. Take a look at the 2014-2015 Florida Gator men's basketball team. Here is a powerhouse of a program. They have 8 top 100 players on their team (Frazier II, Finney-Smith, Murphy, Hill, C Walker, Chiozza, Francis, and Robinson. More than even Marquette has. Not only that, they have 4 players who were ranked higher than Marquette's highest rated player (Finney-Smith, Hill, C Walker, and Robinson).  Two of those four were consensus top 10 players coming out high school (Hill and C Walker). Their coach, Billy Donovan is a man of irreproachable reputation. I mean he's won two national championships. Obviously he can coach. As an added bonus, they have a full roster of players and 6 players taller than Steve Taylor to start the season. So by your assertion that high school rankings matter so much, they must be a final four caliber team. Or at least top 25.

They aren't. They are 10-8, same as us. They don't have a signature bad loss like ours to Omaha, but the loss to Florida State wasn't good. And their best win is over Yale.

Obviously Billy Donovan needs help allocating minutes. Put Mojo, Tex and Ners in charge of playing time and the Gators are final four bound!

After watching us stumble all over against St John's.   I couldn't believe how terrible we were.  St John's offensive boards.  No one on our team following their shots.  Terrible turn overs.  We should have won that game.  I can't believe we only lost by 3.  Fischer has to dunk and use his weight.  JJJ can't shoot.  Anderson gets a lot of shots blocked.  Duane must think he is in highschool and can take a layup or drive over some small players.  I feel sorry for Wojo and hope he is looking to the future.

++ Stupid poll?

-OR-

++ Really stupid poll?

You decide!

No thanks

Quote from: dinger on January 23, 2015, 01:08:06 PM
I went ahead and voted for both because the poll is set to allow that. That way I can tell you all in five years that I knew it all along!

Chicos? Is that you?

Quote from: dinger on January 23, 2015, 01:08:06 PM
I went ahead and voted for both because the poll is set to allow that. That way I can tell you all in five years that I knew it all along!

I did as well. I voted twice because that's me.  But if the idiotic poll was set to allow only one vote, I'd say of course he'll out perform Deane.  By next year's class alone he'll out perform him.

Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on January 23, 2015, 03:36:06 PM
I did as well. I voted twice because that's me.  But if the idiotic poll was set to allow only one vote, I'd say of course he'll out perform Deane.  By next year's class alone he'll out perform him.

Why?  Top 100 recruits don't matter.  Wake up 84 - do you not read TAMU and other's posts informing you of as much?

Quote from: NersEllenson on January 23, 2015, 03:47:28 PM
Why?  Top 100 recruits don't matter.  Wake up 84 - do you not read TAMU and other's posts informing you of as much?

I actually agree with the premise that it isn't a given that every player will be as good of a college player as their high school ranking.  But given the class as a whole Ners, I'm fairly certain it won't be a class of 100% misses.

Maybe the poll should be:  Wojo versus Brunt.  Since Brunt recruited Derrick, it's a no brainer that Wojo wins that one right Ners?

Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on January 23, 2015, 03:55:48 PM
I actually agree with the premise that it isn't a given that every player will be as good of a college player as their high school ranking.  But given the class as a whole Ners, I'm fairly certain it won't be a class of 100% misses.

Maybe the poll should be:  Wojo versus Brunt.  Since Brunt recruited Derrick, it's a no brainer that Wojo wins that one right Ners?

I agree.  Henry should be a lock for a star.  I like Haanif from what I've seen as well.  Think Nick/Heldt won't make an impact till junior year.

I feel Burton will be a star, and wasn't a miss.  Pretty sure Duane won't prove to be a miss.  Nor Luke Fischer.  Nor JJJ.  Nor Cohen.  Buzz also had Marial Shayok - who looks strong.  Ahmed Hill looking promising too.  Let's keep in mind that Wojo had a chance to seal a re-committ from both of those players, yet couldn't get that done - albeit a challenging sell when you aren't their initial coach or recruitment.

Quote from: NersEllenson on January 23, 2015, 04:07:40 PMThink Nick/Heldt won't make an impact till junior year.

Where will that happen? Because clearly they will need to get major minutes from the start if they are ever going to grow to become anything, and if they can't do it here, they'll have to transfer.

Quote from: MU82 on January 23, 2015, 03:04:04 PM
++ Stupid poll?

-OR-

++ Really stupid poll?

You decide!

Ding! Ding! Ding! Where is Al in that poll. His first two seasons were horrid. Wojo is starting with a short deck of cards. Yes this season is painful but I still watch the games and cheer the team on. Just like I did when Al was the coach. I am also not expecting much from next years team as well...they are all frosh coming in.

Quote from: brewcity77 on January 23, 2015, 04:56:35 PM
Where will that happen? Because clearly they will need to get major minutes from the start if they are ever going to grow to become anything, and if they can't do it here, they'll have to transfer.

You fail to understand context.  IN Heldt's case, he likely will be apprenticing behind Luke Fischer - a Top 60 recruit himself coming out of high school, who is contributing at a very nice level.  Additionally, I don't see a guy like Heldt being ready to contribute as a freshman - he is the type of player like what Bo Ryan has had success with at Madison.  A multi-skilled big guy, that needs time to add strength, and be ready to play.  Bigs generally aren't as developed as guards.

As for Nick - who knows how that will go down.  But again, context.  If you are on a team of 10-12 scholarship players, your expectations for PT should go down (than being on a team of 8).  Furthermore, if the team is winning and you are sitting, and the guy in front of you is performing - you can stomach that better.

I think the younguns who never witnessed the dark-glassed one prowl and scowl on the sidelines are skewing this poll.

Deane was a gamer but he made Dukiet look like a high D-1 recruiter.

Wojo is a young coach - Deane actually came from Siena with EIGHT years as HC (and that's not counting his two years at SUNY Oswego) - but he has the cojones to be a great coach.

Deane's first 5 at Siena?
17-12
23-6 NIT 1st
25-5 NCAA 2nd
16-13
25-10 NIT Quarterfinals

Not bad for a much smaller school...

Quote from: NersEllenson on January 23, 2015, 05:19:28 PMYou fail to understand context.  IN Heldt's case, he likely will be apprenticing behind Luke Fischer - a Top 60 recruit himself coming out of high school, who is contributing at a very nice level.  Additionally, I don't see a guy like Heldt being ready to contribute as a freshman - he is the type of player like what Bo Ryan has had success with at Madison.  A multi-skilled big guy, that needs time to add strength, and be ready to play.  Bigs generally aren't as developed as guards.

As for Nick - who knows how that will go down.  But again, context.  If you are on a team of 10-12 scholarship players, your expectations for PT should go down (than being on a team of 8).  Furthermore, if the team is winning and you are sitting, and the guy in front of you is performing - you can stomach that better.

No, actually I don't. Yous Mbao was behind Lazar, who was performing, he opted to transfer. E-Will and Jamail Jones were behind Jimmy and Jae, who were producing, and both opted to transfer. Jamal Ferguson was behind Vander and Lockett, who were producing, and opted to transfer. And whether you choose to accept it or not, Dawson was behind Derrick, who was at the very least producing at a higher level (ORtg not even close last year, Derrick has been productive this year) and opted to transfer.

So why would these guys be different if forced to wait until their junior years?

Ners, I'm curious what you think about the University of Florida.

I think it is fair to look at a player's high school ranking when evaluating what an incoming freshman. I think after their first season of playing, it becomes pretty irrelevant. What they've produced on the court is what you need to look at.

Quote from: MU82 on January 23, 2015, 03:04:04 PM
++ Stupid poll?

-OR-

++ Really stupid poll?

You decide!

In the meantime we would like your opinion. Enquiring minds want to know.

This poll relies on one thing and one thing only. What does MikeDeanesDarkGlasses think?  The ultimate insider.

Quote from: Texas Western on January 23, 2015, 07:38:00 PM
In the meantime we would like your opinion. Enquiring minds want to know.

I vote neither of the above, because it's obviously a really, really stupid poll!

Quote from: MU82 on January 23, 2015, 10:46:44 PM
I vote neither of the above, because it's obviously a really, really stupid poll!

Deane was one of our best coaches in MU history. Why wouldn't we want to compare Wojo to him? All you keep saying it is stupid but give no reason? I thought MU taught you better than that.

Quote from: Texas Western on January 23, 2015, 10:51:08 PM
Deane was one of our best coaches in MU history. Why wouldn't we want to compare Wojo to him? All you keep saying it is stupid but give no reason? I thought MU taught you better than that.

I would rank Deane as our 2nd worst coach in the post Al era.

Quote from: Texas Western on January 23, 2015, 10:51:08 PM
Deane was one of our best coaches in MU history.

Sure. With another guy's recruits.

Ladaryl Billingsley.

Did not vote--should have one that said Hopefully. Deane's record for 5 years was pretty good, and he did well for the resources he had. Different eras. Different conferences. Wojo definitely has better resources. Bigger budget, bigger staff, still has Buzz's old jet I assume, and better connections.

Wojo will likely do better than Deane, and hopefully significantly better, but this first year is not looking good. Wojo should be able to recruit a heck of a lot better. Have not heard that he spends a lot of his recruiting time in the watering holes, and his first real class is looking good. Deane did do a decent job, all things considered.

Quote from: Texas Western on January 23, 2015, 10:51:08 PM
Deane was one of our best coaches in MU history. Why wouldn't we want to compare Wojo to him? All you keep saying it is stupid but give no reason? I thought MU taught you better than that.

Huh???

Quote from: Ellenson for an mu-rara on January 23, 2015, 01:29:15 PM
Based on:

How much fun I had drinking Bud Lights with Deano at Turner's after a win.  Deano is the clear winner.

Long time vision to build a quality program.  Wojo without a doubt.

As much fun as drinking with MD was,  I hope I never drink a beer with Wojo in my life.

There is no fun drinking Bud Light! It is horse piss! Wait--there would be some fun drinking Bud Light with kate Upton, hoping wistfully for a score at the end of the drinking session with her.