If he plays more than two minutes a game next season, Buzz is a fool.
How can you be a major NCAA Division I basketball player and not shoot a perimeter jump shot or a free throw?
My favorite play of the game, though, was when he started to run with the ball before dribbling. You see that in peewee hoops.
Good God.
Quote from: Afroman on March 04, 2014, 10:55:11 PM
If he plays more than two minutes a game next season, Buzz is a fool.
How can you be a major NCAA Division I basketball player and not shoot a perimeter jump shot or a free throw?
My favorite play of the game, though, was when he started to run with the ball before dribbling. You see that in peewee hoops.
Good God.
I will give him credit, he did play pretty good defense on cotton most of the game, but his complete and total ineptitude on offense and horrible foul at the end cost us this game. So god damn frustrating to watch.
Walking the ball up the court with 11 seconds left in a tie game so there's no clock left for a shot? And up a score in the second OT and you travel with no one within 20 feet?
I love his heart and effort but mental mistakes like these and a 1 pont, 3 assist box score...
Hands down the worst game of his mu career, and thats saying something
Quote from: Afroman on March 04, 2014, 10:55:11 PM
My favorite play of the game, though, was when he started to run with the ball before dribbling. You see that in peewee hoops.
My EXACT thought at the time.
I didn't see the foul....what exactly happened at the end?
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on March 04, 2014, 11:04:23 PM
I didn't see the foul....what exactly happened at the end?
Derrick treated it like it was a hail mary play in football.
Two consecutive horrible offensive games for Derrick in a season filled with them.
But as for the OP, Derrick will be the starting PG next season and he will play considerably more than 2 mpg.
He's going to get significant minutes next year
watching him play point makes me throw up, one good play, one bad play,and so on and so on.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on March 04, 2014, 11:05:52 PM
Derrick treated it like it was a hail mary play in football.
So he fouled on the inbounds pass?
Quote from: Blueprint on March 04, 2014, 11:06:30 PM
watching him play point makes me throw up, one good play, one bad play,and so on and so on.
Ummm ... what were the good offensive plays?
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on March 04, 2014, 11:07:01 PM
So he fouled on the inbounds pass?
Correct, pass was lofted in the back court and derrick just hammered cotton trying to pick it off
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on March 04, 2014, 11:07:01 PM
So he fouled on the inbounds pass?
Yes sir. He was somewhat close to getting a piece of it, but Cotton had jumped and Derrick his eyes on the ball and took out Cotton's legs, making it an obvious foul. Derrick either should have let Cotton catch it or jumped himself, but that is easy to say from my couch.
But DW's improved this year, so says some posters.
Jesus...I was busy posting to Scoop when that happened. Thanks.
Quote from: Boone on March 04, 2014, 11:10:44 PM
But DW's improved this year, so says some posters.
Well he has. But has seriously regressed the last two games. To be honest, I can't think of a single worst performance by a MU point guard in my lifetime.
I've been silent this season. Just one dissapointment after another... Derrick Wilson is a kid that is in over his head. I never yelled at a TV so much... That travel call was awful.. Why not dribble before driving to the basket?!? We have them in double bonus up one and with a minute to play!!! Even the inbounds to a stationary Thomas was bad. The foul at the end is by far the least bad thing he did in the last half of the game. Good defense by MU as always though.
I'm going to chalk this loss up to Jamil Wilson's pink shoes. Just a long line of bad moves by our Wilson's this year.
I'm for proposing a forum filter that no longer allows people to kid themselves into saying Derrick Wilson is some sort of defensive specialist. MU has gotten burned ALL SEASON by other teams point guards.
Derrick Wilson is also nothing more than an average passer. He also cannot make wide open layups created by his defensive play. He's terrible. I'm sorry, but this game was a giant magnifying glass on what this team's problem is. Derrick cannot play more minutes than Duane and John if this team wants to be good next year. He's useless in nearly every facet of the game.
Also, Jake Thomas played decent and then went full retard at the end. It's almost like a joke sometimes. You could not of made up a more hilariously fitting ending.
I like Derrick. He's a good guy and tries his hardest. I think many on this board are too hard on the kid. Is he putting himself out there ? He is forced into too big of a role on this team. I think the only person who doesn't realize that is Buzz. Thats where the frustration should start and end.
Quote from: LAZER on March 04, 2014, 11:06:18 PM
He's going to get significant minutes next year
Yes. Beautiful. I can't wait. First team All-Big East and he will lead us to the National Title. Quote me.
I'm probably the biggest Buzz apologist in the world, but it's on him for playing Derrick so much. After the first half evidence, it was patently obvious that this was a night you ride Dawson down the stretch like the @Georgetown game. I just wish Derrick had the guts to tell Buzz it wasn't his night again. No shame in that. In fact it's what I'd expect a player as smart and team-first as Derrick to do.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on March 04, 2014, 11:12:17 PM
Well he has. But has seriously regressed the last two games. To be honest, I can't think of a single worst performance by a MU point guard in my lifetime.
Thank you Sultan for your unbiased honesty. You typically post like you're directly in contact with Buzz Williams but I appreciate your candid response.
As we've been told over and over and over and over and over, Buzz sees these guys in practice. As Buzz himself said "Derrick can't shoot. Ok. Derrick can't shoot. Got it."
Derrick trapped well tonight, especially in the final minute. And I honestly believe that we don't beat Butler in the tourney last year without Derrick--Brad Stevens even mentioned him in the postgame. Derrick caused huge problems for Rotnei Clark.
Despite those points, Derrick is not a high major starting point guard. I think he is a good situational defensive player. His poor scoring ability and overall low basketball IQ means that he should not start on a high major team. Moreover, we have a point guard on the bench who has shown a higher basketball IQ.
However, it is not Derrick's fault that he starts. It is the fault of the coaching staff, especially Buzz. I don't mind Buzz starting Derrick because it keeps his incentive scheme of practicing hard in place (e.g., Juan Anderson), but I think this game, if not others, is the catalyst to give Dawson the lion share of PG minutes.
I think it is fine to criticize someone's play, but please don't make your comments personal. You represent Marquette University. Personal attacks on a fellow student, especially one whom you've never met, reflect very poorly on you, me, other alums, and, more importantly, the Church.
Quote from: MARQ_13 on March 04, 2014, 11:15:01 PM
I like Derrick. He's a good guy and tries his hardest. I think many on this board are too hard on the kid. Is he putting himself out there ? He is forced into too big of a role on this team. I think the only person who doesn't realize that is Buzz. Thats where the frustration should start and end.
This is, of course, absolutely true. Derrick isn't the one who is playing Derrick. He is what he is. It's not his fault he plays 30-40 mpg.
It doesn't mean we can't be frustrated when he travels 30 feet from the basket with absolutely no intention of going to the hoop or when he misses a layup that moste 7th grade girls can make, though.
Quote from: humanlung on March 04, 2014, 10:59:08 PM
Walking the ball up the court with 11 seconds left in a tie game so there's no clock left for a shot? And up a score in the second OT and you travel with no one within 20 feet?
I love his heart and effort but mental mistakes like these and a 1 pont, 3 assist box score...
I didn't realize he was the only one with mental mistakes. Fouls that result in four point plays, silly turnovers, bad fouls from others were just as bad.
Quote from: mufanatic on March 04, 2014, 11:22:59 PM
I didn't realize he was the only one with mental mistakes. Fouls that result in four point plays, silly turnovers, bad fouls from others were just as bad.
Even with two air fouls on Mayo (and a return air foul that allowed Mayo to send it to OT), we lose by 12+ without him. We probably win in regulation without Derrick missing a 6" shot and going 1-4 from the FT line.
Quote from: MU82 on March 04, 2014, 11:20:19 PM
This is, of course, absolutely true. Derrick isn't the one who is playing Derrick. He is what he is. It's not his fault he plays 30-40 mpg.
It doesn't mean we can't be frustrated when he travels 30 feet from the basket with absolutely no intention of going to the hoop or when he misses a layup that moste 7th grade girls can make, though.
Really? We are going use the elementary/middle school girl can make a layup? Yea because in the history of college basketball, Derrick is the only player to have ever missed a contested layup.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on March 04, 2014, 11:25:32 PM
Even with two air fouls on Mayo (and a return air foul that allowed Mayo to send it to OT), we lose by 12+ without him. We probably win in regulation without Derrick missing a 6" shot and going 1-4 from the FT line.
Yeah, but that guy is capable of making plays, making free throws, and scored 25 more points. Mayo is a much better player than Derrick. Case closed.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on March 04, 2014, 11:25:32 PM
Even with two air fouls on Mayo (and a return air foul that allowed Mayo to send it to OT), we lose by 12+ without him. We probably win in regulation without Derrick missing a 6" shot and going 1-4 from the FT line.
Mayo played a whale of a game but Derrick is not the only player on that team that made mental mistakes. Derrick doesn't score but he did contribute to good and bad plays as did everyone else who stepped on the court tonight.
I'm somewhat confounded and disappointed by Derrick's play today (and other times during the season), but semi-mortified by the over the top negative responses by posters on this board. It's like a feeding frenzy. This is a message board so expressing dissatisfaction at his play is fair game, but the vitriol is unwarranted. So many feel they need to be even nastier than the preceding nasty comment so that it just exponentially mushrooms. Just a sorry spectacle.
It's easy to be a fan when the team is winning; not so much when it is struggling. Try taking a breath before posting and keep it more analytical, less personal.
Quote from: MarkusSharkus on March 04, 2014, 11:28:55 PM
Yeah, but that guy is capable of making plays, making free throws, and scored 25 more points. Mayo is a much better player than Derrick. Case closed.
What are you trying to say here? Mayo is a division one talent so he deserves more scrutiny than a our minute leading PG who contributes nothing and has key turnovers with the lead in both OTs. You really don't have a pulse on this team do you?
mufanatic,
How often do you polish the little league participation trophies that sit proudly on your shelf?
Quote from: mattyv1908 on March 04, 2014, 11:31:29 PM
What are you trying to say here? Mayo is a division one talent so he deserves more scrutiny than a our minute leading PG who contributes nothing and has key turnovers with the lead in both OTs. You really don't have a pulse on this team do you?
meant to qoute post above you, sorry
Quote from: mufanatic on March 04, 2014, 11:22:59 PM
I didn't realize he was the only one with mental mistakes. Fouls that result in four point plays, silly turnovers, bad fouls from others were just as bad.
You are right, totally right. Many, many errors this year by all of the players. These were just particularly hard to handle as there was no reason for them.
(http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/60/6066/A8ZD100Z/posters/harry-bliss-thank-you-mr-mulvaney-but-what-we-re-really-looking-for-is-someone-wit-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg)
MU fan, your mission, should you decide to accept it, is to park your butt and the butts of any associates you choose at any sports book in Las Vegas with 30 or 40 screens and watch every college basketball game (including the NIT) from now until a NCAA Tournament Champion is crowned, and find one point guard worse than Derrick Wilson. As always, should you or any of your team or associates pass out or get kicked out of the casino for drunken disorderly conduct, the secretary will disavow any knowledge of your identity, your bar tab, and your Marquette transcripts. Good luck and don't feel bad if you fail. This could be the most "Impossible Mission" of all time.
Quote from: LAZER on March 04, 2014, 11:06:18 PM
He's going to get significant minutes next year
And this will be the problem.
Quote from: mufanatic on March 04, 2014, 11:27:31 PM
Really? We are going use the elementary/middle school girl can make a layup? Yea because in the history of college basketball, Derrick is the only player to have ever missed a contested layup.
Two points.
1. It really wasn't contested much. A regular D-I NCAA guard makes that layup 99% of the time.
2. Was anybody really surprised that he missed it? I sure wasn't.
Now, I am not a Derrick Wilson fan and never have been and he was beyond useless with the ball yesterday. But I thought that was the best defensive performance by an MU player at any position that I have seen all year.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 05, 2014, 07:00:58 AM
Now, I am not a Derrick Wilson fan and never have been and he was beyond useless with the ball yesterday. But I thought that was the best defensive performance by an MU player at any position that I have seen all year.
For the first time last night, I actually was thinking his defense does not justify his lack of offense. Would Cotton have scored 4 more points if someone else was guarding him? Probably so. But someone else may have scored 6 and not one.
Frustrating game.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 05, 2014, 07:00:58 AM
Two points.
1. It really wasn't contested much. A regular D-I NCAA guard makes that layup 99% of the time.
2. Was anybody really surprised that he missed it? I sure wasn't.
Now, I am not a Derrick Wilson fan and never have been and he was beyond useless with the ball yesterday. But I thought that was the best defensive performance by an MU player at any position that I have seen all year.
Come on man. I'm not a Derrick hater on this board, but his primary responsibility went for 25 & 9 and combined the backcourt went for 40 & 12. He put forth max effort which I can appreciate, but at a certain point it doesn't matter if you can't stop the guy from putting the ball in the hoop, or from helping his teammates do the same.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 05, 2014, 07:19:58 AM
Come on man. I'm not a Derrick hater on this board, but his primary responsibility went for 25 & 9 and combined the backcourt went for 40 & 12. He put forth max effort which I can appreciate, but at a certain point it doesn't matter if you can't stop the guy from putting the ball in the hoop, or from helping his teammates do the same.
On 5 -16 shooting and at least 3 (maybe more) of his makes came either after switching and being guarded by someone else or while Derrick was on the bench. He played 50 minutes and only got 16 shots and most of them not good looks.
Look, I don't think Derrick is a great defender normally (good, not great) and I agree that whatever he provides on defense is more than nullified by his ineptitude on offense, but I think he had a great night on defense.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 05, 2014, 07:00:58 AM
Two points.
1. It really wasn't contested much. A regular D-I NCAA guard makes that layup 99% of the time.
2. Was anybody really surprised that he missed it? I sure wasn't.
Now, I am not a Derrick Wilson fan and never have been and he was beyond useless with the ball yesterday. But I thought that was the best defensive performance by an MU player at any position that I have seen all year.
I agree with every word of this.
That layup was barely contested and simply has to be made.
And Derrick did a very nice job on Cotton last night. The announcers said so repeatedly, and I said so during the game on several occasions to the person I watched the game with.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 05, 2014, 07:28:21 AM
On 5 -16 shooting and at least 3 (maybe more) of his makes came either after switching and being guarded by someone else or while Derrick was on the bench. He played 50 minutes and only got 16 shots and most of them not good looks.
Look, I don't think Derrick is a great defender normally (good, not great) and I agree that whatever he provides on defense is more than nullified by his ineptitude on offense, but I think he had a great night on defense.
Therein lies the problem. Even when Derrick has a great night on defense he is outscored by the opposing PG by 10-15 points (or more) on a consistent basis. You cannot win when opponents don't have to ever guard your PG or when your PG is one of the worst FT-shooting point guards in the world. He plays hard but simply does not have the talent to play 35 minutes at this level. If he plays above Dawson and Duane Wilson next year, it is not going to matter who the other starters are.
Quote from: ecompt on March 05, 2014, 07:41:10 AM
Therein lies the problem. Even when Derrick has a great night on defense he is outscored by the opposing PG by 10-15 points (or more) on a consistent basis. You cannot win when opponents don't have to ever guard your PG or when your PG is one of the worst FT-shooting point guards in the world. He plays hard but simply does not have the talent to play 35 minutes at this level. If he plays above Dawson and Duane Wilson next year, it is not going to matter who the other starters are.
No argument from me on any of the above. He was a big net negative last night no matter how you slice it. Just saying I thought that his defense was really good.
Quote from: CTWarrior on March 05, 2014, 07:28:21 AM
On 5 -16 shooting and at least 3 (maybe more) of his makes came either after switching and being guarded by someone else or while Derrick was on the bench. He played 50 minutes and only got 16 shots and most of them not good looks.
Look, I don't think Derrick is a great defender normally (good, not great) and I agree that whatever he provides on defense is more than nullified by his ineptitude on offense, but I think he had a great night on defense.
I agree that he harassed Cotton and made life difficult for him. But in no way was that the best defensive performance at any position this season. Cotton was the difference make for PC. And no was was it the best ESPECIALLY when his foul on Cotton 40 feet from the basket put the game from +1 good guys to +1 bad guys.
Quote from: LAZER on March 04, 2014, 11:06:18 PM
He's going to get significant minutes next year
Nope. He'll fall back into his appropriate role--a defensive specialist to spell either Duane Wilson or Noskowiak or Dawson. I love that that those guys are going to be pushing each other for minutes next year. One of them will emerge as the starter--likely Duane or Dawson.
The PG position is simply too crowded next year to give Derrick Wilson big minutes in good conscience. Fine, give him minunts against some cupcakes early on, but then let the true PGs step up in the Old Spice Classic and beyond.
I would love if Wilson assumed his role from last year. I didn't mind him in that capacity at all--he gave us valuable minutes. Problem is, diminishing returns and then counterproductivity kick in after around the 10 minute mark.
Quote from: The Sultan of Slurpery on March 04, 2014, 11:07:01 PM
So he fouled on the inbounds pass?
Tried to pick off an inbound pass, liked the aggression, he played to win the game.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 05, 2014, 09:20:16 AM
Nope. He'll fall back into his appropriate role--a defensive specialist to spell either Duane Wilson or Noskowiak or Dawson. I love that that those guys are going to be pushing each other for minutes next year. One of them will emerge as the starter--likely Duane or Dawson.
The PG position is simply too crowded next year to give Derrick Wilson big minutes in good conscience. Fine, give him minunts against some cupcakes early on, but then let the true PGs step up in the Old Spice Classic and beyond.
I would love if Wilson assumed his role from last year. I didn't mind him in that capacity at all--he gave us valuable minutes. Problem is, diminishing returns and then counterproductivity kick in after around the 10 minute mark.
Agree with this completely, except for the Noskowiak part. He'll be a senior in HS next year.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on March 05, 2014, 09:23:52 AM
Tried to pick off an inbound pass, liked the aggression, he played to win the game.
Sorry, that's not playing to win the game. That was an utterly carless play. 7.2 seconds on the clock and Cotton is going away from the basket to catch the inbound pass about 30 feet from the tin. You play lock down defense on that play and don't dare risk a foul in that situation especially given Cotton's proficiency at the FT line.
Also, what happens when Wilson steals it--he gets hacked, misses 2 FTs and they get it right back.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 05, 2014, 09:31:48 AM
Agree with this completely, except for the Noskowiak part. He'll be a senior in HS next year.
Oops, I meant Cohen. I know he's a SG coming out of high school, but who knows what Buzz will do with him.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 05, 2014, 09:33:19 AM
Oops, I meant Cohen. I know he's a SG coming out of high school, but who knows what Buzz will do with him.
I'll allow it.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on March 05, 2014, 09:23:52 AM
Tried to pick off an inbound pass, liked the aggression, he played to win the game.
I'm not discounting his aggression, but it was a bonehead play and it cost us. As soon as Derrick committed to the ball, you knew the result would be a foul. He really wasn't close to intercepting the pass. Just a critical error. You've got to know better than to lunge towards a kid that shoots 85% from the stripe with the game on the line.
The simple fact is that Derrick hurts us more than he helps us. It's time to cut our losses and move on with Duane, JD, and Sandy.
By the way, for those lauding Derrick's defensive efforts against Bryce Cotton (who dropped 25/9/7), get a grip. If you want to know what a praise worthy defensive effort looks like, see:
Jimmy Butler v. Tu Holloway 3.18.11 (38 min, 1-8 FG, 1-5 3P, 5 TO, 5 Pts)
Quote from: kilbournave on March 05, 2014, 09:52:48 AM
I'm not discounting his aggression, but it was a bonehead play and it cost us. As soon as Derrick committed to the ball, you knew the result would be a foul. He really wasn't close to intercepting the pass. Just a critical error. You've got to know better than to lunge towards a kid that shoots 85% from the stripe with the game on the line.
The simple fact is that Derrick hurts us more than he helps us. It's time to cut our losses and move on with Duane, JD, and Sandy.
By the way, for those lauding Derrick's defensive efforts against Bryce Cotton (who dropped 25/9/7), get a grip. If you want to know what a praise worthy defensive effort looks like, see:
Jimmy Butler v. Tu Holloway 3.18.11 (38 min, 1-8 FG, 1-5 3P, 5 TO, 5 Pts)
Exactly. That has been the familiar stat line for far too many of the opposition's PGs this year in a loss we could have won. If you're going to be a defensive specialist for 30+ minutes, you need to have games where you completely shut down your man. It doesn't matter how hard he has to work for his points if he still ends up scoring/distributing in the end.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 04, 2014, 11:18:10 PM
I'm probably the biggest Buzz apologist in the world, but it's on him for playing Derrick so much. After the first half evidence, it was patently obvious that this was a night you ride Dawson down the stretch like the @Georgetown game. I just wish Derrick had the guts to tell Buzz it wasn't his night again. No shame in that. In fact it's what I'd expect a player as smart and team-first as Derrick to do.
You were EXPECTING that Derrick was going to go up to Buzz at halftime or early in the second half and say " Hey Coach......its not my night....again. Being the team first guy that I am, I think that I should sit down."??????
That is absurd. If any player told Buzz that he isnt going to fight with everything that he has in the second half in a game that MU desperately needs, that would be the last time that he or anyone wore an MU uniform for Buzz.
Quote from: We R Final Four on March 05, 2014, 11:12:33 AM
You were EXPECTING that Derrick was going to go up to Buzz at halftime or early in the second half and say " Hey Coach......its not my night....again. Being the team first guy that I am, I think that I should sit down."??????
That is absurd. If any player told Buzz that he isnt going to fight with everything that he has in the second half in a game that MU desperately needs, that would be the last time that he or anyone wore an MU uniform for Buzz.
Guy, it happened in the Gtown game. So not as absurd as it may seem.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 05, 2014, 11:28:33 AM
Guy, it happened in the Gtown game. So not as absurd as it may seem.
What he said.
Wow--I stand corrected if true.
Now I am more disappointed than ever.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 05, 2014, 11:28:33 AM
Guy, it happened in the Gtown game. So not as absurd as it may seem.
Mostly true. Derrick did not say it was not his night. He said it was Dawson's night.
How has nobody brought this up yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHtgKIFoQfE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHtgKIFoQfE)
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 05, 2014, 05:13:16 PM
Mostly true. Derrick did not say it was not his not. He said it was Dawson's night.
Thanks. Less disappointed, We R Final Four?
Quote from: kilbournave on March 05, 2014, 09:52:48 AM
By the way, for those lauding Derrick's defensive efforts against Bryce Cotton (who dropped 25/9/7), get a grip. If you want to know what a praise worthy defensive effort looks like, see:
Jimmy Butler v. Tu Holloway 3.18.11 (38 min, 1-8 FG, 1-5 3P, 5 TO, 5 Pts)
I don't think anyone is saying it is the best defensive performance MU has ever seen (the one you quoted is one of the top 10 in MU history IMHO), they are just saying he was solid.
Cotton averages 22 points in 40 minutes. Last night he got 25 in 50, pretty much his season average. He was held to 5-16 shooting (32%) which is 10% lower than his season average. All those misses is why we had so many defensive rebounds. AND, as was already noted, at least 3 of Cotton's FGs occurred while Derrick was not guarding him. So while Derrick was guarding him, he was shooting worse than 32%. Cotton also had 4 turnovers and Derrick had 2 steals.
Say all you want about Derrick's offense. It was abysmal last night and negatively impacted us for sure. But without his defense we don't even sniff OT. If only we could put Dawson's offensive ability into Derrick's body...
Holy slurperness - "missed A contested layup?" The next contested layup he makes may be his first. Said before - he should not go to the hoop if a defender is within 3 feet of him.
Quote from: mufanatic on March 04, 2014, 11:27:31 PM
Really? We are going use the elementary/middle school girl can make a layup? Yea because in the history of college basketball, Derrick is the only player to have ever missed a contested layup.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 05, 2014, 05:13:16 PM
Mostly true. Derrick did not say it was not his night. He said it was Dawson's night.
As it was again last night. This changes nothing about what I said, but I sincerely thank you for the clarification. It was a carbon copy of the Georgetown game in my mind with Derrick & John. Buzz & Derrick had a template to go by; a path that led to victory had been set. Both chose to ignore it, and now the season depends on three nights in New York. Hope we can pull it out!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 05, 2014, 05:20:58 PM
I don't think anyone is saying it is the best defensive performance MU has ever seen (the one you quoted is one of the top 10 in MU history IMHO), they are just saying he was solid.
Cotton averages 22 points in 40 minutes. Last night he got 25 in 50, pretty much his season average. He was held to 5-16 shooting (32%) which is 10% lower than his season average. All those misses is why we had so many defensive rebounds. AND, as was already noted, at least 3 of Cotton's FGs occurred while Derrick was not guarding him. So while Derrick was guarding him, he was shooting worse than 32%. Cotton also had 4 turnovers and Derrick had 2 steals.
Say all you want about Derrick's offense. It was abysmal last night and negatively impacted us for sure. But without his defense we don't even sniff OT. If only we could put Dawson's offensive ability into Derrick's body...
PG is not a defensive position. Nobody ever said, "Boy, that Magic Johnson, what a defender!" or "Wow, Chris Paul sure is a lock-down defender!" or "How 'bout the defense Nash played tonight?!?!"
A defense-first PG is like a defensive-minded first baseman. Sure, it's nice if the guy can scoop a few errant throws, but I (and every GM in baseball) really want a guy who can hit 40 HRs.
Any defense the PG plays is a bonus. I love your positive attitude, but saying "without his defense we don't even sniff OT" doesn't work for me. Because if he had just scored 2 or 3 points instead of 1 -- one!!! -- maybe we don't have to sniff OT!
Quote from: MU82 on March 05, 2014, 09:58:09 PM
A defense-first PG is like a defensive-minded first baseman. Sure, it's nice if the guy can scoop a few errant throws, but I (and every GM in baseball) really want a guy who can hit 40 HRs.
I think this a very good comparison. Unfortunatley we are stuck with James Loney instead of Miguel Cabrera (or even Corey Hart for that matter)
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 05, 2014, 05:20:58 PM
I don't think anyone is saying it is the best defensive performance MU has ever seen (the one you quoted is one of the top 10 in MU history IMHO), they are just saying he was solid.
Cotton averages 22 points in 40 minutes. Last night he got 25 in 50, pretty much his season average. He was held to 5-16 shooting (32%) which is 10% lower than his season average. All those misses is why we had so many defensive rebounds. AND, as was already noted, at least 3 of Cotton's FGs occurred while Derrick was not guarding him. So while Derrick was guarding him, he was shooting worse than 32%. Cotton also had 4 turnovers and Derrick had 2 steals.
Say all you want about Derrick's offense. It was abysmal last night and negatively impacted us for sure. But without his defense we don't even sniff OT. If only we could put Dawson's offensive ability into Derrick's body...
Man, you Derrick guys act as though Dawson rolls on his back on the defensive end.
So if Derrick "the glove" Wilson doesn't play, Cotton goes all LeBron and drops 61 on us? Give me a break.
Look, Derrick plays better D than he does O. He also plays better D than Dawson, but is it THAT much better? Especially when he plays extremely long stretches with no break?
It is very difficult to measure the counterfactual so this argument could go on forever (you: wo Dwil, cotton drops 61, me: wo Dwil cotton drops 28).
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 05, 2014, 07:19:58 AM
Come on man. I'm not a Derrick hater on this board, but his primary responsibility went for 25 & 9 and combined the backcourt went for 40 & 12. He put forth max effort which I can appreciate, but at a certain point it doesn't matter if you can't stop the guy from putting the ball in the hoop, or from helping his teammates do the same.
I'd rather give him 30 and 12 and have our guy score 12 with 8 assists and 5 boards.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 05, 2014, 05:17:49 PM
Thanks. Less disappointed, We R Final Four?
Depends how you look at it , I guess. I am more disappointed that any player would step aside and say "take me out coach, its not my night." However, as you eluded to......not all that disappointed when DW is on the bench and JD is driving the lane.
Quote from: MU82 on March 05, 2014, 09:58:09 PM
PG is not a defensive position. Nobody ever said, "Boy, that Magic Johnson, what a defender!" or "Wow, Chris Paul sure is a lock-down defender!" or "How 'bout the defense Nash played tonight?!?!"
A defense-first PG is like a defensive-minded first baseman. Sure, it's nice if the guy can scoop a few errant throws, but I (and every GM in baseball) really want a guy who can hit 40 HRs.
Any defense the PG plays is a bonus. I love your positive attitude, but saying "without his defense we don't even sniff OT" doesn't work for me. Because if he had just scored 2 or 3 points instead of 1 -- one!!! -- maybe we don't have to sniff OT!
What about Gary Payton.......just saying.
Quote from: Sunbelt15 on March 06, 2014, 08:16:49 AM
What about Gary Payton.......just saying.
Gary Payton averaged 20+ ppg & 7 apg during a 9 year NBA span. He also averged 25 & 8 his senior year of college. So I'm not sure exactly what you're just saying.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 06, 2014, 08:59:08 AM
Gary Payton averaged 20+ ppg & 7 apg during a 9 year NBA span. He also averged 25 & 8 his senior year of college. So I'm not sure exactly what you're just saying.
Exactly!
Some folks act like offense and defense have to be mutually exclusive.
This just in: Some guys are good at both!!!!!
And most high-major PGs aren't god-awful at the more important of the two.
Quote from: MU82 on March 06, 2014, 03:26:06 PM
Exactly!
Some folks act like offense and defense have to be mutually exclusive.
This just in: Some guys are good at both!!!!!
And most high-major PGs that get more minutes than any other player on the team aren't god-awful at the more important of the two.
Fixed.
Also look at the effect his lack of offense has on the opposing PG. They can basically rest on d and save energy for offense. They do not have to work nearly as hard as they would guarding someone who is a threat to score.
They also never have to worry about foul trouble. They can go to the hoop hard the entire game and know the refs will never call 5 offensive fouls on them in one game.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 06, 2014, 08:59:08 AM
Gary Payton averaged 20+ ppg & 7 apg during a 9 year NBA span. He also averged 25 & 8 his senior year of college. So I'm not sure exactly what you're just saying.
He said PG is not a defensive position. Gary was known as "The Glove" because of his defense. All positions are defensive positions.
Quote from: starting5 on March 06, 2014, 03:42:13 PM
Also look at the effect his lack of offense has on the opposing PG. They can basically rest on d and save energy for offense. They do not have to work nearly as hard as they would guarding someone who is a threat to score.
They also never have to worry about foul trouble. They can go to the hoop hard the entire game and know the refs will never call 5 offensive fouls on them in one game.
How dare you make such a suggestion?? You mean being able to stand relatively stationary in the lane isn't exerting energy or putting a defender in harms way of picking up a personal foul??
If you didn't detect sarcasm - good point.