You CAN'T play Derrick Wilson. Wilson had the ball with time running out 3 or 4 times during the game. He missed the shot or lost possession everytime. He is the last player on the team that should have the ball with times running out. Wilson is a back- up point guard that should play about 7-8 minutes a game. There is no leader out there. Buzz has to play JJJ or he is gone. He can't do any worse that Wilson and Thomas. Thomas should be playing for Stout or La Crosse. Otule had the play under and had his shot blocked twice by a 6"6 player. They are usually playing 3 on 5 on offense.
JJJ is hurt (ankle). So I guess you're kinda clueless too ;D
Quote from: muwar2003 on January 18, 2014, 03:31:08 PM
You CAN'T play Derrick Wilson. Wilson had the ball with time running out 3 or 4 times during the game. He missed the shot or lost possession everytime. He is the last player on the team that should have the ball with times running out. Wilson is a back- up point guard that should play about 7-8 minutes a game. There is no leader out there. Buzz has to play JJJ or he is gone. He can't do any worse that Wilson and Thomas. Thomas should be playing for Stout or La Crosse. Otule had the play under and had his shot blocked twice by a 6"6 player. They are usually playing 3 on 5 on offense.
This is a Scoop Hall of Fame bad post.
1) Derrik Wilson was probably the best player on the floor for the entirety of the game today.
2) who would you have playing PG?
Derrick Wilson was our best offensive player today. If he was a problem, there were seven or eight larger ones.
Quote from: muwar2003 on January 18, 2014, 03:31:08 PMOtule had the play under and had his shot blocked twice by a 6"6 player.
Will give you this. Always amazed at how many times he gets blocked.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on January 18, 2014, 03:35:45 PM
This is a Scoop Hall of Fame bad post.
1) Derrik Wilson was probably the best player on the floor for the entirety of the game today.
2) who would you have playing PG?
Derrick Wilson will never be the best player on the floor. His shortcomings affect the entire team and will continue to all season. Guards win in college basketball and ours are terrible.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on January 18, 2014, 03:35:45 PM
This is a Scoop Hall of Fame bad post.
1) Derrik Wilson was probably the best player on the floor for the entirety of the game today.
2) who would you have playing PG?
1) Derrick was actually aggressive today, which was good to see. He was not particularly effective after the first few minutes, however.
2) Unfortunately, agree 100%. Still think if we get down by 2 scores with less than 2 minutes, he has to come out to force the defense to play honest.
That stretch when he and Anderson were in together when Butler took off was particularly galling. Butler ignored both of them and we were playing 3 on 5.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on January 18, 2014, 03:35:45 PM
1) Derrik Wilson was probably the best player on the floor for the entirety of the game today.
That, in itself, is a very telling statement. Meminger weeps.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on January 18, 2014, 03:35:45 PM
This is a Scoop Hall of Fame bad post.
1) Derrik Wilson was probably the best player on the floor for the entirety of the game today.
2) who would you have playing PG?
Wilson allows the other team to pack it in. We can't make 3s. Wilson had 4 TO's and was virtually unguarded. Not the best player on the floor.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on January 18, 2014, 03:35:45 PM
This is a Scoop Hall of Fame bad post.
1) Derrik Wilson was probably the best player on the floor for the entirety of the game today.
2) who would you have playing PG?
You are
N E V E R the best player on the floor when the other team doesn't even bother guarding you.
One thing happened for certain today. Dawson proved why he's not getting minutes in important games. It's not that I don't like his potential, it's just that he made too many freshman mistakes.
I wouldn't call him the best player on the floor, but Derrick Wilson wasn't the problem.
How about two off guards that can't hit a shot to save their lives? How about only four bench points, and all four of them were in garbage time?
Where's Juan? Where's Deonte?
Quote from: WarriorFan on January 18, 2014, 03:45:38 PM
One thing happened for certain today. Dawson proved why he's not getting minutes in important games. It's not that I don't like his potential, it's just that he made too many freshman mistakes.
He was strangely slow and tentative in his very few minutes today. I know most of you won't agree, but the one pass he threw into the middle of the lane that was stolen was at least partly Gardner's fault. He assumed he wasn't getting the pass and started through the lane early rather than looking for the pass. Part of that is that he is not used to people hitting him with the pass there.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 03:46:53 PM
I wouldn't call him the best player on the floor, but Derrick Wilson wasn't the problem.
How about two off guards that can't hit a shot to save their lives? How about only four bench points, and all four of them were in garbage time?
Where's Juan? Where's Deonte?
Agree that today Derrick was not the biggest problem. He does make it hard for Gardner, but besides Gardner, our other "scorers" got many wide open looks and just couldn't convert.
Mu has to many so called athletes and not enough basketball players.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 03:46:53 PM
I wouldn't call him the best player on the floor, but Derrick Wilson wasn't the problem.
How about two off guards that can't hit a shot to save their lives? How about only four bench points, and all four of them were in garbage time?
Where's Juan? Where's Deonte?
He isn't the only problem we have, but he is a problem every game he plays because he can't/won't shoot outside shots. There is a reason this team is terrible and he is at the top of the list. He is the leader of a stagnant offense and we will be the same team again next year unless we find someone else to play PG.
I'd be interested to see the stats on when MU shoots in the first 15 seconds of the shot clock rather than the last 15. It seems when they shoot early in the possession they have a much high ppp. Marquette has always been athletic which makes sense for them to run the floor quick. The longer they hold the ball (and are in a set) the more clueless they look.
Quote from: mubuzz on January 18, 2014, 03:59:39 PM
He isn't the only problem we have, but he is a problem every game he plays because he can't/won't shoot outside shots. There is a reason this team is terrible and he is at the top of the list. He is the leader of a stagnant offense and we will be the same team again next year unless we find someone else to play PG.
Wilson, Duane. Come on down, you're the next contestant on "Next Season Will Be Right".
And I have said it before, next years team will benefit greatly from the absence of this years senior leadership.
when Derrick, Juan and Thomas are on the court together, this is the one of the worst offenses in Division I.
Quote from: ecompt on January 18, 2014, 04:08:43 PM
when Derrick, Juan and Thomas are on the court together, this is the one of the worst offenses in Division I.
To call what we run with them on the floor a bad "offense" is insulting to bad offenses everywhere.
was mayo playing on Butlers team...
Quote from: MU86NC on January 18, 2014, 04:19:46 PM
was mayo playing on Butlers team...
He played as if he simply didn't care today.
Quote from: muwar2003 on January 18, 2014, 03:31:08 PM
You CAN'T play Derrick Wilson. Wilson had the ball with time running out 3 or 4 times during the game. He missed the shot or lost possession everytime. He is the last player on the team that should have the ball with times running out. Wilson is a back- up point guard that should play about 7-8 minutes a game. There is no leader out there. Buzz has to play JJJ or he is gone. He can't do any worse that Wilson and Thomas. Thomas should be playing for Stout or La Crosse. Otule had the play under and had his shot blocked twice by a 6"6 player. They are usually playing 3 on 5 on offense.
He was a big reason we had the lead.
Quote from: ecompt on January 18, 2014, 04:08:43 PM
when Derrick, Juan and Thomas are on the court together, this is the one of the worst offenses in Division I.
Ding Ding Ding!!! Thomas at least can occasionally get hot, BUT no way should DW and JA play together. Those two are absolutely no offensive threat and don't even get guarded. Just brutal.
Derrick Wilson was the only Warrior to shoot ever 40% today. And he played about 40 minutes of defense on Butler's leading scorer, and actually was outscoring him for most of the game.
Seriously if you are going to criticize Derrick, this isn't exactly the day to do it.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 04:51:21 PM
Derrick Wilson was the only Warrior to shoot ever 40% today. And he played about 40 minutes of defense on Butler's leading scorer, and actually was outscoring him for most of the game.
Seriously if you are going to criticize Derrick, this isn't exactly the day to do it.
Since this year is done, do you believe next year that Derrick should be our stating PG and if yes do you think he is capable of being a net positive player?
Quote from: mubuzz on January 18, 2014, 04:55:49 PM
Since this year is done, do you believe next year that Derrick should be our stating PG and if yes do you think he is capable of being a net positive player?
He will be the starting PG next year. I expect that he will improve. I would love to see Duane or Dawson being so good that they take the reigns from him, but I doubt it will happen.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 05:08:28 PM
He will be the starting PG next year. I expect that he will improve. I would love to see Duane or Dawson being so good that they take the reigns from him, but I doubt it will happen.
I also believe that Buzz will start him next year. I honestly don't think that he will improve much if at all...I would think your progression as a player between your jr and sr years would be the least out of all the years. When your a freshman and sophomore you are still "young" but once you are almost done with your jr year, I think you are the player you're going to be for the most part. Sure he could improve his ft shooting moderately maybe, but won't develop into a playmaker/distributor if he hasn't already. Hope I'm wrong cuz this has been a very hard yr to stomach.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 05:08:28 PM
He will be the starting PG next year. I expect that he will improve. I would love to see Duane or Dawson being so good that they take the reigns from him, but I doubt it will happen.
There is no way in hell Derrick improves. You don't become a good shooter when you are 22 after missing badly the first 21 years of your life. We can get away with his not being as threat as long as Juan is never on the court at the same time and Mayo gets his head out of his derriere.
Quote from: ecompt on January 18, 2014, 05:19:30 PM
There is no way in hell Derrick improves. You don't become a good shooter when you are 22 after missing badly the first 21 years of your life. We can get away with his not being as threat as long as Juan is never on the court at the same time and Mayo gets his head out of his derriere.
??? Where did I say he would become a good shooter. I said he would "improve."
You don't think basketball players can get better after 22?
The only problem with this team is L.O.F.T.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 05:21:36 PM
??? Where did I say he would become a good shooter. I said he would "improve."
You don't think basketball players can get better after 22?
The thing Derrick needs to improve the most is his shooting. He is a solid defensive player and adequate passer but his offense is pretty bad. If he doesn't improve his offense next year then he hasn't improved at all.
That's why next year is not looking so good - Buzz starting Derrick at PG (yes, he'll improve but really how good can he get from where he is now?), we lose Devante. Our Senior leadership is Mayo, Juan Anderson and Derrick - yikes.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 05:08:28 PM
He will be the starting PG next year. I expect that he will improve. I would love to see Duane or Dawson being so good that they take the reigns from him, but I doubt it will happen.
Derrick scores double digits...apparently he's still the reason we lost. I know you all want a single thing to blame for our woes this year, but there isn't one.
Derrick will improve next season. I don't think he will magically be a better scorer, but he will be better than he is this year. This is first year as a stating PG. Ya'll remember how terrible Junior was when he took over the reins as the starting PG? Being a starting PG and a backup PG is two different things. He will learn from this year and be better the next.
Hopefully Duane will be good enough to at least take 15 of Derrick's minutes.
can we get a first round draft pick off this horrible season :'(
How many times was Derrick whistled for traveling in that span where MU blew the lead? Like 2 or 3 times. He's the QB of the offense and instead of settling down he's struggling to get the Offense going. I dont understand what happened to his confidence, he has no belief in his shot. Very strange.
Quote from: Otule's Glass Eye on January 18, 2014, 05:36:09 PM
The thing Derrick needs to improve the most is his shooting. He is a solid defensive player and adequate passer but his offense is pretty bad. If he doesn't improve his offense next year then he hasn't improved at all.
He is not an adequate passer. His assists are swing it around the perimeter types. He was aggressive today, which is good, and he played solid defense until he ran out of gas at the end. He has got to be able to attack in some manner. In football terms, we need more North-South from him and less East-West.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 18, 2014, 06:03:36 PM
Derrick scores double digits...apparently he's still the reason we lost. I know you all want a single thing to blame for our woes this year, but there isn't one.
Derrick will improve next season. I don't think he will magically be a better scorer, but he will be better than he is this year. This is first year as a stating PG. Ya'll remember how terrible Junior was when he took over the reins as the starting PG? Being a starting PG and a backup PG is two different things. He will learn from this year and be better the next.
Hopefully Duane will be good enough to at least take 15 of Derrick's minutes.
In my observations the biggest reasons this team is terrible this year in order
1) Derrick Wilson's shooting
2) Derrick Wilson's playmaking
3) Jamil Wilson's passiveness
4) Todd Mayo's inconsistencies
5) Buzz's lack of in game adjustments
6) Buzz's wacky rotations
7) Davante's attitude/effort
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 05:21:36 PM
??? Where did I say he would become a good shooter. I said he would "improve."
You don't think basketball players can get better after 22?
Of course players can get better. If he could hit one 18-footer and 50 percent of his free throws per game that would be an improvement. Teams can carry a guy like him if there are three scorers on the floor with him.
Derrick is sub par, no doubt. We have the worst backcourt in the BE, hence our struggles. However, today the problem was not Derrick. The issue was we continue to have alot of bad turnovers and today in the second half we, when we didnt turn it over, actually got good shots. I would like to see a montage of our second half looks, mostly all good looks , but we missed almost every one. Chris, DG, jamil, mayo, jake literally missed everything from layups to 3's. Good looks just a terrible shooting half from a poor shooting collection of players
Derrick's play today was a complete mystery. In the first half he did a very good job of running the offense. He pushed the ball up making Butler pay for the lack of athleticism getting back on D. He took the ball to the hole when it was there. Forced help which opened up DG underneath and got the ball to him. He played very good D. His only mistake was some easily intercepted passes down the wing.
Then about 4 minutes into the second half it was like an alarm went off in his head. "You're playing too well and controlling too much". You could tell he kind stood off by the wing. He stopped doing any penetration. The offense immediately went stagnate. Maybe he was tired exerting too much on defense. Whatever it was it absolutely killed us. By my count MU scored 3 points between the 16 minute mark and the 5 minute mark. that simply can not happen. That is where we lost the game.
Derrick simply must play like he did in the first half for us to have a chance. Otherwise no one penetrates, the other team locks down the base line players and MU starts taking 3s. As soon as we started taking a bunch of 3s I knew it was only a matter of time before we lost.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on January 18, 2014, 06:52:20 PM
Derrick's play today was a complete mystery. In the first half he did a very good job of running the offense. He pushed the ball up making Butler pay for the lack of athleticism getting back on D. He took the ball to the hole when it was there. Forced help which opened up DG underneath and got the ball to him. He played very good D. His only mistake was some easily intercepted passes down the wing.
Then about 4 minutes into the second half it was like an alarm went off in his head. "You're playing too well and controlling too much". You could tell he kind stood off by the wing. He stopped doing any penetration. The offense immediately went stagnate. Maybe he was tired exerting too much on defense. Whatever it was it absolutely killed us. By my count MU scored 3 points between the 16 minute mark and the 5 minute mark. that simply can not happen. That is where we lost the game.
Derrick simply must play like he did in the first half for us to have a chance. Otherwise no one penetrates, the other team locks down the base line players and MU starts taking 3s. As soon as we started taking a bunch of 3s I knew it was only a matter of time before we lost.
How dare you! You are not an alum! Why...why...you are little more than an agent provocateur! J'ACCUSE!
Quote from: NotAnAlum on January 18, 2014, 06:52:20 PM
Derrick's play today was a complete mystery. In the first half he did a very good job of running the offense. He pushed the ball up making Butler pay for the lack of athleticism getting back on D. He took the ball to the hole when it was there. Forced help which opened up DG underneath and got the ball to him. He played very good D. His only mistake was some easily intercepted passes down the wing.
Then about 4 minutes into the second half it was like an alarm went off in his head. "You're playing too well and controlling too much". You could tell he kind stood off by the wing. He stopped doing any penetration. The offense immediately went stagnate. Maybe he was tired exerting too much on defense. Whatever it was it absolutely killed us. By my count MU scored 3 points between the 16 minute mark and the 5 minute mark. that simply can not happen. That is where we lost the game.
Derrick simply must play like he did in the first half for us to have a chance. Otherwise no one penetrates, the other team locks down the base line players and MU starts taking 3s. As soon as we started taking a bunch of 3s I knew it was only a matter of time before we lost.
Derricks mission needs to be revised. Just give us 10 minutes of max effort and let the other guys carry the rest if the load.
Nit..... bound! I live in new york.. i'll be there...
Quote from: mubuzz on January 18, 2014, 04:55:49 PM
Since this year is done, do you believe next year that Derrick should be our stating PG and if yes do you think he is capable of being a net positive player?
Duane Wilson will get a serious look next year.
Quote from: Nevada233 on January 18, 2014, 06:07:53 PM
can we get a first round draft pick off this horrible season :'(
We did not have one last year.
Quote from: Nevada233 on January 18, 2014, 07:09:08 PM
Nit..... bound! I live in new york.. i'll be there...
I would not count on that. I do not think we will finish with an overall winning record, which likely means no NIT bid.
Quote from: muhoops1 on January 18, 2014, 06:10:20 PM
How many times was Derrick whistled for traveling in that span where MU blew the lead? Like 2 or 3 times. He's the QB of the offense and instead of settling down he's struggling to get the Offense going. I dont understand what happened to his confidence, he has no belief in his shot. Very strange.
Yes. The one guy on the team who shot more than 40% has no belief in his shot. ::)
Quote from: Chris Columbo on January 18, 2014, 07:00:21 PM
Derricks mission needs to be revised. Just give us 10 minutes of max effort and let the other guys carry the rest if the load.
I have read enough of your posts to realize that you would be one f*cking awful college basketball coach.
As bilsu pointed out, D. Wilson was MU's leading scorer in the second half and overtime. And he's to blame for this loss? Pathetic analysis.
Quote from: Heisenberg on January 18, 2014, 07:12:57 PM
Duane Wilson will get a serious look next year.
While I agree, the seriously underperforming junior and sophomore classes may open us up to additional possibilities.
Buzz may be a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. Derrick does pine time ASAP.
Quote from: bilsu on January 18, 2014, 07:19:21 PM
I would not count on that. I do not think we will finish with an overall winning record, which likely means no NIT bid.
yeah... this team will prolly be sub .500
Quote from: Nevada233 on January 18, 2014, 07:09:08 PM
Nit..... bound! I live in new york.. i'll be there...
That assumes we finish over .500. Not a sure thing by a mile.
We will finish above .500. Unless they quit on Buzz, which I would be shocked if that happened.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 05:08:28 PM
He will be the starting PG next year. I expect that he will improve. I would love to see Duane or Dawson being so good that they take the reigns from him, but I doubt it will happen.
it won't happen because Buzz is blind about Derrick--not because he "is a game changer"
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 18, 2014, 07:28:11 PM
Buzz may be a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. Derrick does pine time ASAP.
Not so sure about the stupid comment. He is Buzz's gamechanger and leading minute grabber.
MuBuzz Reply 36--- YOU GOT IT RIGHT!
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 07:20:27 PM
I have read enough of your posts to realize that you would be one f*cking awful college basketball coach.
As bilsu pointed out, D. Wilson was MU's leading scorer in the second half and overtime. And he's to blame for this loss? Pathetic analysis.
I would be the leading scorer on this team if I was left unguarded every time down the court.
Do you think an opposing coach cares if Derrick scores 15 points? That just means he has the ball in his hands more often and I would think that is the opposing coaches game plan.
Quote from: mubuzz on January 18, 2014, 06:12:41 PM
In my observations the biggest reasons this team is terrible this year in order
1) Derrick Wilson's shooting
2) Derrick Wilson's playmaking
3) Jamil Wilson's passiveness
4) Todd Mayo's inconsistencies
5) Buzz's lack of in game adjustments
6) Buzz's wacky rotations
7) Davante's attitude/effort
This is mostly spot on. This is also the reason Derrick should be sitting on the bench not only this year but forever... Yeah - he had a good 1st half but he is also the main reason they choked a 12 point lead... lost season... and it looked so good setting up :(
Quote from: Chris Columbo on January 18, 2014, 07:00:21 PM
Derricks mission needs to be revised. Just give us 10 minutes of max effort and let the other guys carry the rest if the load.
Yeah. But how often can Buzz do the sub-in/sub-out to cover DWil's weaknesses?
Quote from: brandx on January 18, 2014, 08:49:47 PM
I would be the leading scorer on this team if I was left unguarded every time down the court.
Do you think an opposing coach cares if Derrick scores 15 points? That just means he has the ball in his hands more often and I would think that is the opposing coaches game plan.
Really?
Simply laughable. Derrick plays a solid game, and it's still his fault they lose.
Our problem is we can't score the basketball. Way into the second half we had 13 points in half two. Not going to win if we can't shoot and score.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 18, 2014, 05:24:32 PM
The only problem with this team is L.O.F.T.
Lack of F ucking Talent?
I hear Ron Jeremy still has eligibility...
(http://purefilmcreative.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/ron_Jeremy.png)
Quote from: chapman on January 18, 2014, 03:37:13 PM
Will give you this. Always amazed at how many times he gets blocked.
Nothing will ever be as amazing as the amount of times a 6' 9" Dan Fitzgerald got blocked on three point attempts.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 18, 2014, 07:57:45 PM
We will finish above .500. Unless they quit on Buzz, which I would be shocked if that happened.
I am not so sure this team will finish over .500 in conference. I actually don't remember a Marquette team that has gone this deep into the season without a true road win.
What is going on with Buzz this year? He really seems clueless and the team seems to lack direction and motivation. It seems that Buzz has lost the players. It's a real mess.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 19, 2014, 09:04:45 AM
What is going on with Buzz this year? He really seems clueless and the team seems to lack direction and motivation. It seems that Buzz has lost the players. It's a real mess.
How dare you question the guy who has taken us to two Sweet 16's and an Elite 8? He is just having a slump and needs to keep doing what he is doing to get out of the slump.
Hope it is only a slump. Do you really think so?
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 19, 2014, 09:45:15 AM
Hope it is only a slump. Do you really think so?
No, but obviously he does.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 19, 2014, 09:04:45 AM
It seems that Buzz has lost the players. It's a real mess.
Always fascinated by the Coach X has lost the team comments (not specific to MU). What exactly does that mean? What is the evidence to suggest it is the case?
When there are no easy answers (ie., the talent just isn't there), try to rationalize it away by saying that the coach has "lost the team."
Quote from: willie warrior on January 19, 2014, 09:11:41 AM
How dare you question the guy who has taken us to two Sweet 16's and an Elite 8? He is just having a slump and needs to keep doing what he is doing to get out of the slump.
Sometimes, everyone can be doing their job and the company still doesn't succeed.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 19, 2014, 09:45:15 AM
Hope it is only a slump. Do you really think so?
way more than a slump... and a georgetown/villanova are almost needed wins..... to turn this thing around.....
this team has no leadership..... when it counts there is no go to guy.....
mayos inconsistent, jamil is too passive and no one can get the ball to gardner..... so win one lose one... win two lose one.. is how this year will continue to go..
Quote from: forgetful on January 19, 2014, 10:41:27 AM
Sometimes, everyone can be doing their job and the company still doesn't succeed.
Yup, and when that happens significant changes are implemented.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 04:51:21 PM
Derrick Wilson was the only Warrior to shoot ever 40% today. And he played about 40 minutes of defense on Butler's leading scorer, and actually was outscoring him for most of the game.
Seriously if you are going to criticize Derrick, this isn't exactly the day to do it.
Why? Because he was the least bad? This is Derrick Wilson's team. As the PG he is the leader. And leadership has nothing to do with FG %. It is only about winning. And this team is not just losing we are not even competitive. Our real record is 3-8.
Meminger, McGuire, Walton, Boylan, Rivers, Johnson, Smith, Hutchins, Henry, Diener, and James were leaders. I don't expect you to get that concept but please stop being so obtuse in your logic.
Quote from: keefe on January 19, 2014, 02:55:33 PM
Why? Because he was the least bad? This is Derrick Wilson's team. As the PG he is the leader. And leadership has nothing to do with FG %. It is only about winning. And this team is not just losing we are not even competitive. Our real record is 3-8.
Meminger, McGuire, Walton, Boylan, Rivers, Johnson, Smith, Hutchins, Henry, Diener, and James were leaders. I don't expect you to get that concept but please stop being so obtuse in your logic.
A loss in OT isn't competitive? A road loss at Xavier that was a one-possession game with 70 seconds to play wasn't competitive? Good logic there.
Quote from: keefe on January 19, 2014, 02:55:33 PM
Why? Because he was the least bad? This is Derrick Wilson's team. As the PG he is the leader. And leadership has nothing to do with FG %. It is only about winning. And this team is not just losing we are not even competitive. Our real record is 3-8.
Meminger, McGuire, Walton, Boylan, Rivers, Johnson, Smith, Hutchins, Henry, Diener, and James were leaders. I don't expect you to get that concept but please stop being so obtuse in your logic.
Oh good. Now we are stooping to using made up "real" records? JHC
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 09:15:51 PM
Really?
Simply laughable. Derrick plays a solid game, and it's still his fault they lose.
Gotta disagree. If teams aren't bothering to even guard the guy (and we
know they aren't), he is hurting the offensive flow every time down the floor.
Derrick scoring 15 points is in no way similar to, say, a Peyton Siva scoring 15 points. Two completely different worlds.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 19, 2014, 03:36:06 PM
Oh good. Now we are stooping to using made up "real" records? JHC
I removed the cupcakes because those games are not indicative of genuine competition. It is a legitimate analytical method.
Against actual competition this team is now 3-8. Would you disagree?
Quote from: keefe on January 19, 2014, 02:55:33 PM
Why? Because he was the least bad? This is Derrick Wilson's team. As the PG he is the leader. And leadership has nothing to do with FG %. It is only about winning. And this team is not just losing we are not even competitive. Our real record is 3-8.
Meminger, McGuire, Walton, Boylan, Rivers, Johnson, Smith, Hutchins, Henry, Diener, and James were leaders. I don't expect you to get that concept but please stop being so obtuse in your logic.
McGuire wasn't a PG, but was still an outstanding passer.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 19, 2014, 03:03:12 PM
A loss in OT isn't competitive? A road loss at Xavier that was a one-possession game with 70 seconds to play wasn't competitive? Good logic there.
Let me ask: were we competitive in OT? I didn't see that part of the game but it sure sounds like we got our asses kicked. My conclusion is that we were anything but competitive in OT.
Quote from: brandx on January 19, 2014, 03:54:19 PM
McGuire wasn't a PG, but was still an outstanding passer.
Nice catch. I included him because the coach was sleeping with his mom.
Quote from: keefe on January 19, 2014, 03:56:44 PM
Nice catch. I included him because the coach was sleeping with his mom.
I remember hearing rumors about that.
Quote from: keefe on January 19, 2014, 03:55:57 PM
Let me ask: were we competitive in OT? I didn't see that part of the game but it sure sounds like we got our asses kicked. My conclusion is that we were anything but competitive in OT.
Wow - have things have gotten so bad that being competitive against the league's last place team is what we are striving for?
Quote from: keefe on January 19, 2014, 03:53:49 PM
I removed the cupcakes because those games are not indicative of genuine competition. It is a legitimate analytical method.
Against actual competition this team is now 3-8. Would you disagree?
Cupcakes beat good teams every year.
They are actual competition.
The games count and are part of our record.
Remove them if you want. Presenting it as our real record is dumb and inaccurate IMO.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 18, 2014, 07:20:27 PM
I have read enough of your posts to realize that you would be one f*cking awful college basketball coach.
As bilsu pointed out, D. Wilson was MU's leading scorer in the second half and overtime. And he's to blame for this loss? Pathetic analysis.
To be fair we would all be terrible coaches at DI level
Quote from: NotAnAlum on January 18, 2014, 06:52:20 PM
Derrick's play today was a complete mystery. In the first half he did a very good job of running the offense. He pushed the ball up making Butler pay for the lack of athleticism getting back on D. He took the ball to the hole when it was there. Forced help which opened up DG underneath and got the ball to him. He played very good D. His only mistake was some easily intercepted passes down the wing.
Then about 4 minutes into the second half it was like an alarm went off in his head. "You're playing too well and controlling too much". You could tell he kind stood off by the wing. He stopped doing any penetration. The offense immediately went stagnate. Maybe he was tired exerting too much on defense. Whatever it was it absolutely killed us. By my count MU scored 3 points between the 16 minute mark and the 5 minute mark. that simply can not happen. That is where we lost the game.
Derrick simply must play like he did in the first half for us to have a chance. Otherwise no one penetrates, the other team locks down the base line players and MU starts taking 3s. As soon as we started taking a bunch of 3s I knew it was only a matter of time before we lost.
I 100% agree with this. And i've seen it posted in a few different threads. My question though is this: Why the change? If Derrick made the change himself, he should have seen the bench. But what if Derrick didn't choose to change the style of play? What if Buzz made that call? I actually think it was most likely Buzz. If Buzz made the change, I can't even begin to understand why. And if he did, I'd almost put the loss on him.
Quote from: keefe on January 19, 2014, 03:55:57 PM
Let me ask: were we competitive in OT? I didn't see that part of the game but it sure sounds like we got our asses kicked. My conclusion is that we were anything but competitive in OT.
That's not what you originally said though. You said that "this team is not just losing we are not even competitive."
Quote from: keefe on January 19, 2014, 03:53:49 PM
I removed the cupcakes because those games are not indicative of genuine competition. It is a legitimate analytical method.
Against actual competition this team is now 3-8. Would you disagree?
Does Indiana get to not count their loss at home to Northwestern since it was against a cupcake?
I can't imagine Buzz telling Derrick to quit being aggressive at the 14 minute mark. I think its far more likely that Derrick either.
1. Got tired due to his defensive assignment and the minutes he had played to that point. Penetrating takes more energy. Our past leaders have played through it. Maybe he couldn't.
2. Started thinking that with a 12 point lead he could revert to being more careful and avoid doing anything negative. In other words he started to over think the situation.
Who knows it could have been anything but something changed and it was clearly visible. Its also very similar to what happened the home game before with SH.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 19, 2014, 09:32:13 PM
That's not what you originally said though. You said that "this team is not just losing we are not even competitive."
It is my opinion that this team is not competitive. We have not beaten a team of note, save for a mildly talented GWU. We have had leads against some teams but have failed to close out the wins. In other contests we were never a threat to win.
I think it was Vander Blue who said he wanted opponents to look at the schedule and mutter, "Sh1t, we gotta play
those guys..." or words to that effect. Do you think anyone in our conference is saying that about Marquette now? This team no longer strikes fear in the hearts of adversaries. We are not a competitive threat.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 19, 2014, 05:19:22 PM
Cupcakes beat good teams every year.
They are actual competition.
The games count and are part of our record.
Remove them if you want. Presenting it as our real record is dumb and inaccurate IMO.
I will remove them. Because a more accurate gauge of our competitiveness is to look at reasonable match ups. Lopsided victories against Grambling and IUPUI are indicative of nothing from a competitiveness stand point.
Our record against all competition is 10-8. But our record against viable opponents is 3-8. And I am being generous as regards Seton Hall, a game we almost lost.
Believing we have 10 victories this season against legitimate competition is delusional. I shudder to think how we would fare if we were in last year's Big East.
Quote from: keefe on January 19, 2014, 11:20:48 PM
Our record against all competition is 10-8. But our record against viable opponents is 3-8.
Regardless whether one uses 10-8 or 3-8 as MU's record, the fact is that neither is good. Both are piss poor.
Quote from: slingkong on January 20, 2014, 10:30:20 AM
Regardless whether one uses 10-8 or 3-8 as MU's record, the fact is that neither is good. Both are piss poor.
We are really arguing over the arrangement of the deck chairs at this point. I want to be optimistic, but this damn reality thing keeps popping up.
Quote from: keefe on January 19, 2014, 11:14:23 PM
It is my opinion that this team is not competitive. We have not beaten a team of note, save for a mildly talented GWU. We have had leads against some teams but have failed to close out the wins. In other contests we were never a threat to win.
I think it was Vander Blue who said he wanted opponents to look at the schedule and mutter, "Sh1t, we gotta play those guys..." or words to that effect. Do you think anyone in our conference is saying that about Marquette now? This team no longer strikes fear in the hearts of adversaries. We are not a competitive threat.
You claim that MU hasn't beaten a team of note, yet you consider the team to be 3-8 against viable competition. Please, enlighten us on the difference between "a team of note" and "viable competition."
You don't believe that MU is a "threat to win" in games that come down to the final possession or in one-possession games with under 2 minutes to play. Interesting. Please, enlighten us on what you believe constitutes being a "threat to win."
Or better yet, stick to what you do best and post long, embellished stories and pictures of mildly attractive women in military garb.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 20, 2014, 10:49:25 AM
Or better yet, stick to what you do best and post long, embellished stories and pictures of mildly attractive women in military garb.
IDF chicks are much more than mildly attractive!!!
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 20, 2014, 10:49:25 AM
You claim that MU hasn't beaten a team of note, yet you consider the team to be 3-8 against viable competition. Please, enlighten us on the difference between "a team of note" and "viable competition."
You don't believe that MU is a "threat to win" in games that come down to the final possession or in one-possession games with under 2 minutes to play. Interesting. Please, enlighten us on what you believe constitutes being a "threat to win."
Or better yet, stick to what you do best and post long, embellished stories and pictures of mildly attractive women in military garb.
How many Top 50 wins do we have? How many Top 100-150 wins do we have? Beyond that, Keefe considers the wins meaningless and I think that is a fair assessment.