Curious to get everyone's grade on Buzz now that we are 5 years into his tenure. As has been suggested it takes 5 years to fully evaluate a coach, and now that Buzz has all his guys on the roster, mixed with the results of the past 5 years - what grade do you assign?
I'll go with an A+
I'll also give Cottingham and Wild an A+ for having the balls and foresight to realize that Buzz was ultimately the best recruit of the Tom Crean era, and that they had gold sitting right on their bench once TC moved on - and didn't cave to outside influences suggesting the process was flawed, and that we "settled."
+1
Buzz an A.
Corringham/Wild a D.
The AD and Pres never considered the possibility that their coach may leave? Never thought that could happen? They were so ill prepared that they asked the Big East for guidance in their search for a new coach. Buzz deserves all the credit here, these two got lucky or got some good advice that is all.
A
The NCAA violation by Monarch prevents it from being perfect.
Quote from: We R Final Four on September 11, 2013, 01:09:16 PM
Buzz an A.
Corringham/Wild a D.
The AD and Pres never considered the possibility that their coach may leave? Never thought that could happen? They were so ill prepared that they asked the Big East for guidance in their search for a new coach. Buzz deserves all the credit here, these two got lucky or got some good advice that is all.
Smart people ask a lot of people for advice when they conduct searches.
Easy A+ for me. I was a student when he got hired so I went to his opening press conference and walked away scratching my head. He didn't really answer any of the questions and at the time all I had heard about him was that he was a great recruiter. Turns out that was true and then some, plus he's become a hell of an in-game coach. Buzz is the man
A. There is room for marginal improvement to get to A+, and I have no doubt he will make those in his next 5 years. Beyond thrilled with the hire.
Well Crean had gotten us to a Final Four by now so obviously Buzz needs to go! Jk ill give him an A for coaching but C for control over his players/staff between the two rape incidents, Juan Anderson getting suspended, Scott Monarch getting axed, I feel he had some problems in that category but I'd say its getting better.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on September 11, 2013, 01:57:07 PM
Well Crean had gotten us to a Final Four by now so obviously Buzz needs to go! Jk ill give him an A for coaching but C for control over his players/staff between the two rape incidents, Juan Anderson getting suspended, Scott Monarch getting axed, I feel he had some problems in that category but I'd say its getting better.
Rape incidents? You're kidding, right? And Juan getting suspended? So you're blaming Juan accepting tickets from a friend on Buzz? I'll put that 1 on the NCAA. There is no common sense in that institution. And Monarch getting fired is on Buzz? I get players getting in trouble shows some lack of control, but Monarch is an adult who is responsible for his own actions.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on September 11, 2013, 01:57:07 PM
Well Crean had gotten us to a Final Four by now so obviously Buzz needs to go! Jk ill give him an A for coaching but C for control over his players/staff between the two rape incidents, Juan Anderson getting suspended, Scott Monarch getting axed, I feel he had some problems in that category but I'd say its getting better.
Rape? You're either mistaken or using incorrect wording.
Quote from: Terror Skink on September 11, 2013, 01:12:01 PM
A
The NCAA violation by Monarch prevents it from being perfect.
Smart people ask a lot of people for advice when they conduct searches.
Never should have come to that. Ill prepared.
Quote from: We R Final Four on September 11, 2013, 02:29:21 PM
Never should have come to that. Ill prepared.
Come to what? Asking for advice?
Have you ever hired anyone for anything worthwhile?
I'd go with A for coaching...good motivator, tactician, players in the association, recruiting, etc
Of course, being captain of the ship, CEO of the basketball program requires a bit more
C, for transgressions off the court (two sexual assault cases) and the lovely exposure that delivered and ultimately the firing of an AD,the hiroshima nonsense (some of which was coming out of a certain camp), Scott Monarch \ suspension, DJ Newbill, etc
B, for Academics....kids graduating, though APR scores down slightly three straight years and third lowest in the Big East (nothing major, but like to see that trend stay flat at worse)
AB, for spokesman for program and university....the public likes Buzz, he connects with people. Attendance, unfortunately, down again for 5th straight year (zenith was 2008 season). Some of that due to economy last few years, etc.
Could we have gotten a better hire? Maybe..will never know. Could we have gotten him later? Certainly. Could we have gotten a worse hire...absolutely.
He's got a great job, I think he finally realizes it and that SMU \Larry Williams spell was not needed quite frankly. Takes two to tango, so I'm hardly putting this all on him, but some of it definitely is whether. Hope is around for a long period of time. I believe Texas comes open and that will be very interesting to watch....also how well FS1 does for the Big East, etc.
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Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 11, 2013, 02:40:47 PM
C, for transgressions off the court (two...cases)
What is your definition of a "case"? Sounds about as accurate as Crean's buyout only being $8MM last November (was really $16MM).
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 11, 2013, 02:40:47 PM
I'd go with A for coaching...good motivator, tactician, players in the association, recruiting, etc
Of course, being captain of the ship, CEO of the basketball program requires a bit more
C, for transgressions off the court (two sexual assault cases) and the lovely exposure that delivered and ultimately the firing of an AD,the hiroshima nonsense (some of which was coming out of a certain camp), Scott Monarch \ suspension, DJ Newbill, etc
B, for Academics....kids graduating, though APR scores down slightly three straight years and third lowest in the Big East (nothing major, but like to see that trend stay flat at worse)
AB, for spokesman for program and university....the public likes Buzz, he connects with people. Attendance, unfortunately, down again for 5th straight year (zenith was 2008 season). Some of that due to economy last few years, etc.
Could we have gotten a better hire? Maybe..will never know. Could we have gotten him later? Certainly. Could we have gotten a worse hire...absolutely.
He's got a great job, I think he finally realizes it and that SMU \Larry Williams spell was not needed quite frankly. Takes two to tango, so I'm hardly putting this all on him, but some of it definitely is whether. Hope is around for a long period of time. I believe Texas comes open and that will be very interesting to watch....also how well FS1 does for the Big East, etc.
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Just think you're wrong about the off the court grade. One bad incident that he learned from and has not had anything close to a repeat since. Excuseable? No. But the people who needed to be held accountable were. As far as Monarch goes, he's an adult who needs to be held accountable and be was. He even had a chance to make up for it but lied about what he did, which is why he was fired. Not much Buzz can do about that. And if Buzz is responsible for the actions of those below him (Monarch), then I find it hard to place blame on Buzz for those above him (firing of our AD...Buzz is the CEO of the hoops program, AD the CEO of the athletic department, including the basketball program and coaches).
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 11, 2013, 02:44:40 PM
What is your definition of a "case"? Sounds about as accurate as Crean's buyout only being $8MM last November (was really $16MM).
My apologies...do you prefer incidents? Cases is relevant, if you do a simple definition look up.
Try this http://lmgtfy.com/?q=definition+of+case
Furthermore.....
Chicago Tribune used "cases" http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-06-21/news/ct-met-marquette-assaults-timeline-20110621_1_sexual-assault-campus-security-student-reports
ESPN used cases http://espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/7220087/marquette-golden-eagles-feds-review-response-sex-assault-allegations
Journal Sentinel used Cases
Etc
Quote from: wadesworld on September 11, 2013, 02:48:23 PM
Just think you're wrong about the off the court grade. One bad incident that he learned from and has not had anything close to a repeat since. Excuseable? No. But the people who needed to be held accountable were. As far as Monarch goes, he's an adult who needs to be held accountable and be was. He even had a chance to make up for it but lied about what he did, which is why he was fired. Not much Buzz can do about that. And if Buzz is responsible for the actions of those below him (Monarch), then I find it hard to place blame on Buzz for those above him (firing of our AD...Buzz is the CEO of the hoops program, AD the CEO of the athletic department, including the basketball program and coaches).
We all have our opinions. It was a BIG incident...and there were actually two, plus some minor ones involving Vander, the team, etc. When you get the coverage those two got, the painful exposure, the firing of an AD, etc, etc....I'd couch it a bit more than one "bad incident". To each their own.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 11, 2013, 02:44:40 PM
What is your definition of a "case"? Sounds about as accurate as Crean's buyout only being $8MM last November (was really $16MM).
Really? We need this topic in here too? Let it go. Or get a copy of the contract and post it. Either way, this isn't the place.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 11, 2013, 02:44:40 PM
What is your definition of a "case"? Sounds about as accurate as Crean's buyout only being $8MM last November (was really $16MM).
Added to my ignore list, sadly.
Quote from: wadesworld on September 11, 2013, 02:11:50 PM
Rape incidents? You're kidding, right? And Juan getting suspended? So you're blaming Juan accepting tickets from a friend on Buzz? I'll put that 1 on the NCAA. There is no common sense in that institution. And Monarch getting fired is on Buzz? I get players getting in trouble shows some lack of control, but Monarch is an adult who is responsible for his own actions.
Yes rape incidents, there were two of them don't know how long it's been since you've been on campus but I was a sophomore and remember vividly reading it on every issue of the scool paper for a month. And the bottom line is I place the blame on him for not explaining to Juan what he can or can't do. And same with monarch, buzz is the head it's up to him to control, just like its up to Larry Williams to control buzz and if he messed up Larry is accountable and so on and so forth.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 11, 2013, 02:52:35 PM
Really? We need this topic in here too? Let it go. Or get a copy of the contract and post it. Either way, this isn't the place.
I have a copy.
This isn't the place for unfounded accusations against the school, individuals, coach, etc. either.
Quote from: Terror Skink on September 11, 2013, 01:12:01 PM
A
The NCAA violation by Monarch prevents it from being perfect.
+1
I actually largely agree with Chico's off the court criticisms, but I think he's wrong that these are deserving of a C in evaluation of Buzz's job. I'd say a B at worst for off the court stuff.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on September 11, 2013, 03:04:56 PM
Yes rape incidents, there were two of them don't know how long it's been since you've been on campus but I was a sophomore and remember vividly reading it on every issue of the scool paper for a month. And the bottom line is I place the blame on him for not explaining to Juan what he can or can't do. And same with monarch, buzz is the head it's up to him to control, just like its up to Larry Williams to control buzz and if he messed up Larry is accountable and so on and so forth.
It was sexual assault allegations, and they never made it to court.
As an aside, you need to separate your thoughts in your post. You're making Juan come out in a very bad light here for just going to a brewers game. Your posts read like Juan's the one you're insinuating was involved in the sexual assault allegations.
A+s are only for national championships.
Jeez, at least leave some room for improvement.
B+ all the way around. Can't wait for the season to start.He should be held accountable for the mens bball program, and I think he has been. Great hire, program positives every year. Minor mistakes are part of the learning curve.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 11, 2013, 03:11:20 PM
+1
I actually largely agree with Chico's off the court criticisms, but I think he's wrong that these are deserving of a C in evaluation of Buzz's job. I'd say a B at worst for off the court stuff.
But giving "off the court" a B wouldn't stir the pot and make Chicos the focus of this thread.
Quote from: Blueprint on September 11, 2013, 03:22:52 PM
B+ all the way around. Can't wait for the season to start.He should be held accountable for the mens bball program, and I think he has been. Great hire, program positives every year. Minor mistakes are part of the learning curve.
Well stated.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on September 11, 2013, 03:34:12 PM
But giving "off the court" a B wouldn't stir the pot and make Chicos the focus of this thread.
Only you seem to want to put that focus on anyone. It's an opinion on the grade, feel free to have your own. A "C" is average. In my opinion the university was damaged with that incident, enough that a high profile employee was fired, major mea culpas given by the university to change the policies they had because they had broken the law, as well as just general bad press from some major outlets. If that deserves a B, fine. In my opinion, a C was generous.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 11, 2013, 02:40:47 PM
I'd go with A for coaching...good motivator, tactician, players in the association, recruiting, etc
Of course, being captain of the ship, CEO of the basketball program requires a bit more
C, for transgressions off the court (two sexual assault cases) and the lovely exposure that delivered and ultimately the firing of an AD,the hiroshima nonsense (some of which was coming out of a certain camp), Scott Monarch \ suspension, DJ Newbill, etc
B, for Academics....kids graduating, though APR scores down slightly three straight years and third lowest in the Big East (nothing major, but like to see that trend stay flat at worse)
AB, for spokesman for program and university....the public likes Buzz, he connects with people. Attendance, unfortunately, down again for 5th straight year (zenith was 2008 season). Some of that due to economy last few years, etc.
Could we have gotten a better hire? Maybe..will never know. Could we have gotten him later? Certainly. Could we have gotten a worse hire...absolutely.
He's got a great job, I think he finally realizes it and that SMU \Larry Williams spell was not needed quite frankly. Takes two to tango, so I'm hardly putting this all on him, but some of it definitely is whether. Hope is around for a long period of time. I believe Texas comes open and that will be very interesting to watch....also how well FS1 does for the Big East, etc.
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I think you nailed it.
I disagree with grading on the personal behavior of 18-21 year olds.
These "cases" are, for the most part (to public knowledge) isolated incidents of kid(s) making terrible decisions.
If a coach was recruiting obvious/consistent trouble-makers, yeah, you can ding him for that. Or you could cut him for the response/discipline after the fact being too lax.
It's more known what the University did in response to these acts, it's only conjecture as to what Buzz may have done, unofficially. My conjecture is that Buzz seriously knocked them upside the head and lectured them ad nauseum .. while letting the official discipline machine do its thing.
I'd use the same theory on academics. I am confident Buzz has zero tolerance for kids not performing in class .. and zero tolerance for the university cheaping out on academic advisors/tutors, etc.
A- for coaching .. A- for recruiting, A for public relations, A for results.
In 5 years he's become the face of our program and the new conferences #1 coach after stevens bolted.
Some off the court issues happen. Coach K's player taking a $100,000 loan is a prime example of that. I still consider it a black eye to the program but it's the player's mistake for the most part...not always the coach's.
Overall b+.
Room to improve. Get us a blue blood recruit and a final four and we're in the A range. Multiple final 4s or a championship will get an A+ IMO.
I really like this topic. It's the first one in a month that I was really excited to see other people's responses.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on September 11, 2013, 03:46:37 PM
I disagree with grading on the personal behavior of 18-21 year olds.
These "cases" are, for the most part (to public knowledge) isolated incidents of kid(s) making terrible decisions.
I agree that Buzz can't/shouldn't be held responsible for every bad off-court act of one of his players. Especially when those acts are not the norm, which has proven to be the case.
But if those incidents occurred as alleged, or even close to as alleged - and who knows what really happened - it's significantly worse than "kids making terrible decisions." More like "grown men committing felonies."
As for Buzz:
Coaching B+ (and getting better)
PR B+
Recruiting A
Results A
A-. Made the transition seamlessly and made sure that almost nobody ever said how much they missed the former coach. Has recruited and developed talent. Has grown as a game coach. Still room to grow. Is able to win with multiple styles. Lands high level talent.
Off court issues? I look at the lawsuit currently outstanding against Xavier by one of their former players. I look at Duke LaCrosse. I look at Johnny Football and the UConn senior who just got popped for DUI. I look at the stories about OK St and their hostesses. It would be nice if MU was exempt from all of that, but I am not naive enough to expect that. Also, some of the offcourt issues are media creations. 20 year olds in a bar NOT drinking?!?! Oooooooh. An 18 year old responding poorly to what may have been a racial epithet? Nope, not worrying about it.
He has improved, he wins, his players go to class. A-
Buzz has really improved on his coaching the past couple of years. There were some frustrating moments early on when it seemed like he over-substituted and didn't design plays very well out of timeouts. I think he's done an excellent job on preparing for opponents though and his play calling is significantly better now. I would give him:
Coaching: B+
PR: A-
Recruiting: A-
Results: A-
As others have said, Final Fours and/or NC would lead to an A+, in my opinion.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on September 11, 2013, 03:46:37 PM
I disagree with grading on the personal behavior of 18-21 year olds.
These "cases" are, for the most part (to public knowledge) isolated incidents of kid(s) making terrible decisions.
If a coach was recruiting obvious/consistent trouble-makers, yeah, you can ding him for that. Or you could cut him for the response/discipline after the fact being too lax.
It's more known what the University did in response to these acts, it's only conjecture as to what Buzz may have done, unofficially. My conjecture is that Buzz seriously knocked them upside the head and lectured them ad nauseum .. while letting the official discipline machine do its thing.
I'd use the same theory on academics. I am confident Buzz has zero tolerance for kids not performing in class .. and zero tolerance for the university cheaping out on academic advisors/tutors, etc.
A- for coaching .. A- for recruiting, A for public relations, A for results.
I humbly disagree. The head coach of a basketball team is responsible for everything that happens with his team. It may not be his fault but he still needs to take responsibility. May seem unfair but that is the burden of the head coach.
When the sexual assault cases (or whatever you word you want to use to pretty them up) occurred, I was in Milwaukee. It was an awful situation and I was not proud of how the university, the athletic department, or the team handled it. It was very hard for me to stomach it. Still love and support the team but I saw a lot of victim blaming from the Marquette community. And while none of us know exactly what happened, I still feel awful for the young womens' situations.
As for my Buzz report card:
In Game Coaching: B+ (this would have been a lot lower before this last season)
Recruiting: B+ (Bringing in good talent, but until we start consistently getting in top 25 recruiting classes every year, I won't call it an A)
Player Development: A+ (Buzz's true strength. Have no complaints)
Off the court: B- (Comments above)
PR: A (Whether you love or hate his personality, you know who he is. Any news is good news!)
Dance Moves: A+++++++++++++++++++++++++
A for basketball and if he gets Stone to campus, its an A +
He gets an A++++ for being a father figure to some of the players, many of whom did not have that opportunity and receiving the appropriate guidance in life.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 11, 2013, 04:50:58 PM
I humbly disagree. The head coach of a basketball team is responsible for everything that happens with his team. It may not be his fault but he still needs to take responsibility. May seem unfair but that is the burden of the head coach.
When the sexual assault cases (or whatever you word you want to use to pretty them up) occurred, I was in Milwaukee. It was an awful situation and I was not proud of how the university, the athletic department, or the team handled it. It was very hard for me to stomach it. Still love and support the team but I saw a lot of victim blaming from the Marquette community. And while none of us know exactly what happened, I still feel awful for the young womens' situations.
As for my Buzz report card:
In Game Coaching: B+ (this would have been a lot lower before this last season)
Recruiting: B+ (Bringing in good talent, but until we start consistently getting in top 25 recruiting classes every year, I won't call it an A)
Player Development: A+ (Buzz's true strength. Have no complaints)
Off the court: B- (Comments above)
PR: A (Whether you love or hate his personality, you know who he is. Any news is good news!)
Dance Moves: A+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Well said.
I agree with all of this.
Also, I'll add that I'm really impressed with Buzz's analytical and measured approach to the game. Basketball has a lot of moving parts, so it seems really random... but I like that Buzz has found the key indicators that he wants, and works towards those. It's not a groundbreaking concept, but I'm impressed with coaches who can utilize analytics and mix it with the "gut" side of coaching.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 11, 2013, 04:50:58 PM
I humbly disagree. The head coach of a basketball team is responsible for everything that happens with his team. It may not be his fault but he still needs to take responsibility. May seem unfair but that is the burden of the head coach.
Yup....that's why you get the big bucks. Just like a CEO gets nailed or "damaged" if someone on the frontlines is doing something wrong like peeing in the slurpee machine. Even more so for a coach when you only have to monitor 12 to 15 kids and need to set the tone from day one what is acceptable and what is not. Definitely tough and why so many of these guys are complete control freaks because you are relying on 18-22 year old horny dudes that don't always think properly, but that's the deal...especially when their actions can really damage the school.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on September 11, 2013, 01:51:11 PM
A. There is room for marginal improvement to get to A+, and I have no doubt he will make those in his next 5 years. Beyond thrilled with the hire.
+1
Quote from: Skatastrophy on September 11, 2013, 03:11:30 PM
It was sexual assault allegations, and they never made it to court.
As an aside, you need to separate your thoughts in your post. You're making Juan come out in a very bad light here for just going to a brewers game. Your posts read like Juan's the one you're insinuating was involved in the sexual assault allegations.
I'm usually on my phone posting here which makes grammar and separated statements a pain. And regarding sexual assault vs rape I just read up on the definitions and from what I recall of the story I'm pretty sure it was rape or something damn well close. But I'm sorry that the posts read like that.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on September 11, 2013, 07:23:11 PM
I'm usually on my phone posting here which makes grammar and separated statements a pain. And regarding sexual assault vs rape I just read up on the definitions and from what I recall of the story I'm pretty sure it was rape or something damn well close. But I'm sorry that the posts read like that.
Wow. Bagping continues to have trouble getting his point across using the English language. What a surprise.
And it was alleged rape...two sides to the story and nothing was proven.
Concerning player behavior - Well i am happy we won't have to see Blue around campus any more.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 11, 2013, 04:50:58 PM
I humbly disagree. The head coach of a basketball team is responsible for everything that happens with his team. It may not be his fault but he still needs to take responsibility. May seem unfair but that is the burden of the head coach.
Yeah, we're going to disagree.
Buzz is about character. He pounds that message constantly, and I think he looks at himself as a father figure, raising his boys to a high standard. That those sons might stray from the high standards he exudes should not reflect on a guy honestly and extraordinarily trying to make them solid citizens. Sometimes the honest preacher's son breaks bad.
I believe you simply can't dock someone for something that happened WAY beyond their control, and egregiously against the rules set forth.
Would I feel differently if I thought Buzz was even remotely indifferent to the character of his program, players, and coaches? Yes.
Quote from: Terror Skink on September 11, 2013, 07:42:08 PM
Wow. Bagping continues to have trouble getting his point across using the English language. What a surprise.
And it was alleged rape...two sides to the story and nothing was proven.
You really need to learn to relax and let things go. I mean seriously I'm sure it's easy to troll me and be a prick behind an online alias.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on September 11, 2013, 08:49:16 PM
You really need to learn to relax and let things go. I mean seriously I'm sure it's easy to troll me and be a prick behind an online alias.
I know right?
Quote from: Terror Skink on September 11, 2013, 09:13:27 PM
I know right?
If you're trying to imply I'm hiding as well it's really not true. There's only two ranked boxers at MU, one of them plays the babpipes and is a super senior while the other is a junior and much much better than me. Thus not hiding.
Okay...actually going to address the topic now.
Coaching: What has most impressed me about Buzz's coaching is his ability to adapt his style to his personnel. He won with Tom Crean's players. He won at a dinosaur pace with sharpshooters and a midget Hayward at center. We won at a blistering pace with DJO and Crowder. And we made an Elite Eight with virtually no three-point threats. While that's impressive, the inconsistency in tactics makes it hard to really evaluate what Buzz will be as a coach in 5-10 years. I expect him to continue to improve. I want to see more consistency and I want to see this team make it to the next level (Final Four). B+
Public Relations: This one is a double-edged sword. Buzz has created a brand and given Marquette a tough reputation. He is one of the best interviews in the business and always shines come March. At the same time, we've had off-court incidents from the SAs to an assistant coach. I get that the mistakes weren't made by Buzz, but he was the visible face of incidents that put us in a negative light on the front page of newspapers in Milwaukee and Chicago, our two most fertile recruiting areas. I think the pros outweigh the cons, but I hope to see more of the former and less of the latter as we go forward. B
Recruiting: I love Buzz's consistency. He has brought in at least 1 top-100 RSCI player in every class from 2009 through 2015 (assuming Cohen and Noskowiak will be on that list). He's done a great job of filling holes with JUCOs. He still hasn't landed that big stud prospect (I don't mean stud big, I mean McD's AA, 5-star type player) but you get the sense it will be coming eventually. A-
Results: This ties into coaching in that no matter the personnel, Buzz has won. 5 straight years in the tournament, 1 shared Big East title, 2 Sweet 16s, 1 Elite 8. By far that exceeds what I expected when he was hired. Like hilltopper, the lack of a NC/Final Four is the only thing missing. A-
Academics: Most of our guys are graduating, which is a definite positive and something not every perennial top-25 team can say (*cough* look 60 miles west *cough*). There have been some guys that didn't get there, and a number of two-year JUCOs did make it difficult to get guys to cross that stage, but I feel Buzz is getting better at bringing in good kids that are on track academically. At the end of the day, the most important thing Marquette does is educate, and our basketball players should not be an exception to that. B+
Player Development: The obvious answer is that Buzz has taken unheralded guys like Jimmy Butler, Darius Johnson-Odom, and Dwight Buycks and put them in the NBA. Adding in Matthews, Lockett, Hayward, and Crowder and you have a program that is becoming a NBA factory. But what is more important is the growth of these guys as people. I really feel like our players have been great representatives by the time they left Marquette. Everyone that graduated seems to have been better off personally by the time they left. That's something to be proud of. A
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OVERALL: I think we hit a home run with the hire of Buzz Williams. There are still areas for Buzz to improve, but there's no shame in that whatsoever. We have seen fewer embarrassing off-court incidents of late, Buzz is clearly getting better as a game coach, and I have to believe the consistently improving results will pay off in terms of recruiting. I feel really good that I didn't grade anything below a B because I feel I'm normally a bit more harsh of a critic when it comes to grading. B+
Solid A.
When he takes us to a Final Four (this coming season?), it goes up to A+.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 11, 2013, 03:13:15 PM
A+s are only for national championships.
Jeez, at least leave some room for improvement.
+1
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on September 11, 2013, 09:17:23 PM
If you're trying to imply I'm hiding as well it's really not true. There's only two ranked boxers at MU, one of them plays the babpipes and is a super senior while the other is a junior and much much better than me. Thus not hiding.
No. I really don't care enough to figure out who you are. I was simply acknowledging your statement.
Quote from: Terror Skink on September 12, 2013, 08:27:27 AM
No. I really don't care enough to figure out who you are. I was simply acknowledging your statement.
Get over yourself dude
The short, quick, and easy answer is an "A," thus far.
I am a believer in evaluating a variety of categories that go into the job. First, it's the first 5 years. It takes many coaches that long just to get started to get it going. Buzz has had some advantages there, of inheriting a good situation, great budget, support, fan base etc...to make that easier. But, he still had to take a situation and make it better and he did that.
Making the NCAA's every year, and getting to the second weekend 3 of those 5 years, stands out. The biggest one for me is accomplishing first place in what was the previous Big East with all of those great teams and programs. I wasn't sure if that would ever get accomplished. It's easily the biggest highlight on the court for me. Top 5 league finishes every year but one. Being successful against rival type opponents. Adding a couple of sweet 16's and an elite 8. The trend of better recruiting. Conference tourney success or lack of it, would be an area for improvement. For many this takes a back seat to regular season results and NCAA results.
Off the court, he's done well in many areas. He is not a conservative traditionalist, which I like. The AD situation has died down as both adjust to one another. It's an adjustment for the AD to understand that Buzz is a bigger figure than him and always will be. And, it's an adjustment for Buzz to work with the AD without unlimited free reign.
5 years ago one of the back of my mind thoughts was that if Buzz could limit mistakes when taking chances on recruits, he will be successful. By this I mean problem kids with talent. Some can be saved so to speak and some can't. That's how Buzz is going to do it. He's going to see something in someone that many others don't see and take a chance on them. I get that and do that myself. But, if you have too many misses in this area, it can be a big problem. Mostly hits there.
The grade would change and lower if Buzz left any time soon. It would change and lower if more off court problems occur that affect the program. It would change and lower if the on court success wasn't there.
Not giving him an A for on court success thus far is head scratching for me. It's only been 5 years. To give him a B+ or B because there hasn't been a FF or better is unrealistic. My expectations have been met and exceeded to this point. Informal evaluations occur after every year for me. Buzz would have to do a lot wrong in a short amount of time to lower his progress report grade.
I can't give him anything higher than an A- until he gets 4ever to forget about Crean.
Quote from: LittleMurs on September 12, 2013, 11:03:44 PM
I can't give him anything higher than an A- until he gets 4ever to forget about Crean.
What does he get when he gets Chicos to forget about Crean?
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on September 12, 2013, 11:11:10 PM
What does he get when he gets Chicos to forget about Crean?
Moot point - it will never happen. Buzz could led us to multiple National Championships and it wouldn't happen. I'm grateful for what Tom Crean did while at MU, absolutely turned the program around when it was headed into the abyss under Mike Deane - most grateful that Crean recruited Buzz prior to leaving for IU.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on September 12, 2013, 11:11:10 PM
What does he get when he gets Chicos to forget about Crean?
What do MUScoop frequenters get when people stop ruining threads by dragging Chicos through the mud?
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on September 12, 2013, 11:11:10 PM
What does he get when he gets Chicos to forget about Crean?
Chicos didn't just go to Marquette, he went to Indiana as well. Kind of natural for a guy who went to IU to also follow his other team and coach's progress.
With an NCAA appearance in the 2013-2014 season, Buzz would be alone in second place in NCAA appearances for a Marquette coach with 6. I think that tells you something.
Quote from: TedBaxter on September 13, 2013, 08:06:17 AM
With an NCAA appearance in the 2013-2014 season, Buzz would will be alone in second place in NCAA appearances for a Marquette coach with 6. I think that tells you something.
FIFY
Buzz has already eclipsed Crean IMO. #1 Al, #2 Buzz, #3 Crean
Ok, a Final Four would end all argument, but I think he's already done it, based on his ability to develop NBA talent and deliver an NCAA appearance every single year, with 3 Sweet 16s including an Elite 8. 2003 was a great year and I will readily admit it is what got us an invitation to the Big East, but it was the exception of Crean's tenure, not the rule. More common were 1 and dones or the NIT. Buzz is getting us to the 2nd weekend of the tournament year in and year out. If Buzz sticks around at MU, a Final Four is just a matter of time.
For Grins:
Crean in 9 seasons: 1 No postseason; 3 NITs, 5 NCAAs: 3 one and dones, 1 round of 32, 1 Final Four (5 NCAA wins) - 2003 Conference USA champs
Buzz in 6 seasons: 6 straight NCAAs, 1 one and done, 1 round of 32, 2 Sweet 16s, 1 Elite 8 (8 NCAA wins) - 2013 Big East Champs
Quote from: Ners on September 12, 2013, 11:58:25 PM
Moot point - it will never happen. Buzz could led us to multiple National Championships and it wouldn't happen. I'm grateful for what Tom Crean did while at MU, absolutely turned the program around when it was headed into the abyss under Mike Deane - most grateful that Crean recruited Buzz prior to leaving for IU.
I don't see why you would want to forget any of them. Some of you guys want to pretend things didn't happen. I prefer to remember them all. There will be a day when Buzz isn't here, and I'll still remember his accomplishments fondly. Not sure why it is a zero sum game for so many of you.
Chicos, simple question: Who do you like more Crean or Buzz? This can easily be a one word answer so no beating around the bush.
Quote from: swoopem on September 13, 2013, 10:34:44 AM
Chicos, simple question: Who do you like more Crean or Buzz? This can easily be a one word answer so no beating around the bush.
Why does it matter? He likes both of them, and he's entitled to his own opinion.
Quote from: g0lden3agle on September 13, 2013, 07:03:58 AM
What do MUScoop frequenters get when people stop ruining threads by dragging Chicos through the mud?
+1
Quote from: JerseyWarrior on September 13, 2013, 10:40:01 AM
Why does it matter? He likes both of them, and he's entitled to his own opinion.
Because I was wondering. It's not like I'm asking him to tell us how much money he makes, what his political views are, etc. I'm just asking out of two basketball coaches who does he like
more. I agree that it is okay to like both.
Quote from: swoopem on September 13, 2013, 11:04:28 AM
Because I was wondering. It's not like I'm asking him to tell us how much money he makes, what his political views are, etc. I'm just asking out of two basketball coaches who does he like more. I agree that it is okay to like both.
If you don't know what Chicos' political views are by now, you haven't been paying attention.
Quote from: swoopem on September 13, 2013, 10:34:44 AM
Chicos, simple question: Who do you like more Crean or Buzz? This can easily be a one word answer so no beating around the bush.
Are we still in Junior High or what? I don't understand all the Chico bashing. Sometimes I agree with the guy on sports issues - sometimes not. I basically never agree on political issues.
So what?
My bad guys didn't mean to twist another thread had some beers and didnt think through what would happen with my post with Chicos and Crean
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on September 13, 2013, 11:29:35 AM
My bad guys didn't mean to twist another thread had some beers and didnt think through what would happen with my post with Chicos and Crean
From my end, it worked out well. I am getting tired of wading through the "CBB is F-O-S" posts, and this thread shows other people are too, and becoming vocal. If we keep up this type of response to those posts, it will, IMO, reduce these tired old posts make for a better board.
Quote from: swoopem on September 13, 2013, 10:34:44 AM
Chicos, simple question: Who do you like more Crean or Buzz? This can easily be a one word answer so no beating around the bush.
It's not a simple question, nor is the answer. I appreciate what they have both done for my alma mater. Each had a totally different mission and starting point. Different facilities, different leagues, different expectations. Both did a great job, both have their failings. I'm thrilled with what Crean did to put MU back on the map, a major influence to getting us into the Big East, proving we belonged in the Big East, going to the Final Four, hiring Buzz Williams, etc....all of which helped Buzz tremendously. I'm equally thrilled that Buzz has done the job he has done....could have gone sideways and he didn't allow that to happen.
Why are we making this into a 6th grade do you like Sally more than Jenny? I want both chicks! ;D
Quote from: swoopem on September 13, 2013, 11:04:28 AM
Because I was wondering. It's not like I'm asking him to tell us how much money he makes, what his political views are, etc. I'm just asking out of two basketball coaches who does he like more. I agree that it is okay to like both.
If he says Buzz, will you get some satisfaction out of "winning"? If he says Crean, will you feel hurt and spiteful? This has to be one of the most juvenile requests I've seen on a message board.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on September 13, 2013, 11:15:21 AM
If you don't know what Chicos' political views are by now, you haven't been paying attention.
Depends on the issues.....I refuse to be bucketed and vote straight ticket like all the drones out there. In the last 6 presidential elections, I have voted for the GOP ticket
TWICE....I'll bet that didn't exactly fit with what your impression of my views are, now did it. ;)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 13, 2013, 11:46:37 AM
Depends on the issues.....I refuse to be bucketed and vote straight ticket like all the drones out there. In the last 6 presidential elections, I have voted for the GOP ticket TWICE....I'll bet that didn't exactly fit with what your impression of my views are, now did it. ;)
NONE OF THE ABOVE is a pretty easy cop-out
Quote from: Jajuannaman on September 13, 2013, 12:12:27 PM
NONE OF THE ABOVE is a pretty easy cop-out
He didn't say none of the above. You could have a similar voting record - although you've voted in each election and have never voted democrat. Still, certainly haven't voted Republican all the time either.
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 13, 2013, 12:21:38 PM
He didn't say none of the above. You could have a similar voting record - although you've voted in each election and have never voted democrat. Still, certainly haven't voted Republican all the time either.
Oh trust me, he proudly wrote in NONE OF THE ABOVE in '08.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on September 13, 2013, 12:12:27 PM
NONE OF THE ABOVE is a pretty easy cop-out
Not a cop out at all. If your choice is a douche and a turd and both are ill equipped, giving either the vote is an endorsement. No thanks. I'm not the kind of person that says "just because" or "I had to pick one of them". No you don't. Not even close.
(http://i.qkme.me/36bun8.jpg)
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 13, 2013, 12:21:38 PM
He didn't say none of the above. You could have a similar voting record - although you've voted in each election and have never voted democrat. Still, certainly haven't voted Republican all the time either.
So does this reflect your political views? Lower case 'd' and upper case 'R'?
Just joking - not looking for a political argument ;D
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 13, 2013, 12:30:43 PM
Not a cop out at all. If your choice is a douche and a turd and both are ill equipped, giving either the vote is an endorsement. No thanks. I'm not the kind of person that says "just because" or "I had to pick one of them". No you don't. Not even close.
(http://i.qkme.me/36bun8.jpg)
So by voting for not even a write-in or minority party candidate, you get to say about whoever wins "I didn't vote for him." That's a cop-out, Striped Tomato.
So Hitler and Mao are on the ballot, who do you vote for...have to pick one, otherwise it is a cop out.
I love your logic.
If the person isn't qualified, or you feel will do a poor job, you like voting for them anyway otherwise it is a cop out? Good for you. I don't reward people with votes that they will then turn around and say they have a "mandate" to do certain things. You have a different point of view. That's cool, but don't call mine a cop out. Plenty of people choose this right....in fact many people choose not to vote at all. I, actually, vote in every election, but that doesn't mean I vote in every office contest, or vote for only someone from the two main parties. And I certainly don't just fill in the bubble for an office because they are running unopposed. Just like when I get shareholder votes for various stocks I own, most people just check the box to go along with whatever the board recommends. Sometimes I do, sometimes I vote for some officers, but not all. Is that a cop out, too? I thought the whole point was for people to decide. Go figure.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 13, 2013, 12:30:43 PM
Not a cop out at all. If your choice is a douche and a turd and both are ill equipped, giving either the vote is an endorsement. No thanks. I'm not the kind of person that says "just because" or "I had to pick one of them". No you don't. Not even close.
(http://i.qkme.me/36bun8.jpg)
What election was Crean runnin' in unopposed?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 13, 2013, 12:46:51 PM
So Hitler and Mao are on the ballot, who do you vote for...have to pick one, otherwise it is a cop out.
I love your logic.
If the person isn't qualified, or you fell will do a poor job, you feel like voting for them anyway otherwise it is a cop out? Good for you. I don't reward people with votes that they will then say they have a "mandate" to do certain things. You have a different point of view. That's cool, but don't call mine a cop out. Plenty of people choose this right....in fact many people choose not to vote at all. I, actually, vote in every election, but that doesn't mean I vote in every office contest, or vote for only someone from the two main parties. And I certainly don't just fill in the bubble for an office because they are running unopposed. Just like when I get shareholder votes for various stocks I own, most people just check the box to go along with whatever the board recommends. Sometimes I do, sometimes I vote for some officers, but not all. Is that a cop out, too? I thought the whole point was for people to decide. Go figure.
I like how you ignored the third party or write-in option that I specifically addressed. Either/or is not the only option. Taking the time out of your day to actually write NONE OF THE ABOVE on a ballot and submit it is the dumbest option.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on September 13, 2013, 02:03:32 PM
I like how you ignored the third party or write-in option that I specifically addressed. Either/or is not the only option. Taking the time out of your day to actually write NONE OF THE ABOVE on a ballot and submit it is the dumbest option.
You're building quite the straw man. Where did he ever say he goes in there and votes NONE OF THE ABOVE and not a third party or write-in as you mentioned?
Quote from: g0lden3agle on September 13, 2013, 06:01:55 PM
You're building quite the straw man. Where did he ever say he goes in there and votes NONE OF THE ABOVE and not a third party or write-in as you mentioned?
Beleive me, he did it, and posted it publicly & proudly.
Entertainment factor A ( both coach's and team's style)
Recruiting effort A
Recruiting success B-
Player development A
regular season coaching B+
Big East tournament coaching D
NCAA tournament coaching B+
AS far as the trouble some players have gotten into all of them were admitted by MU. The admissions department should have denied them, if there were any indications of past serious prior problems.
Wow...the shock that a thread about how Buzz did his first five years degrades to an argument about Crean. Color me amazed! :o :o :o
Quote from: Jajuannaman on September 13, 2013, 02:03:32 PM
I like how you ignored the third party or write-in option that I specifically addressed. Either/or is not the only option. Taking the time out of your day to actually write NONE OF THE ABOVE on a ballot and submit it is the dumbest option.
I'd call it an affirmative doubling down. After all, writing NONE OF THE ABOVE takes as long as writing a person's name, but it feels so much better. Especially knowing 5 years later how right that decision is.
(http://i1.cpcache.com/product/702174420/vote_none_of_the_above_2012_yard_sign.jpg?height=160&width=160)
(http://i1.cpcache.com/product/653229029/vote_none_of_the_above_tshirt.jpg?color=Royal&height=460&width=460) (http://i1.cpcache.com/product/653229026.jpg?color=White&height=225&width=225)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 13, 2013, 11:46:37 AM
Depends on the issues.....I refuse to be bucketed and vote straight ticket like all the drones out there. In the last 6 presidential elections, I have voted for the GOP ticket TWICE....I'll bet that didn't exactly fit with what your impression of my views are, now did it. ;)
Fair enough Mr. Bailbonds. I meant it was pretty obvious you lean one way, that's all. It wasn't an insult, just that you wear it on your sleeve.
FWIW, I've never voted a straight Dem ticket either. And I rather like the Mike Bloombergs of the world.
This was a really good thread until it descended into Politics.
I'm not in favor of multiple grades. Buzz is at B+.
Would be higher if there was a higher academic rating.
Would be higher if there were no negative news reports regarding player "activities" whether alleged or true.
Would be higher with final four appearance(s).
... and the only way to get an A+ is to win it all.
Quote from: jtbh6b1 on September 14, 2013, 02:48:29 AM
This was a really good thread until it descended into Politics.
I'm not in favor of multiple grades. Buzz is at B+.
Would be higher if there was a higher academic rating.
Would be higher if there were no negative news reports regarding player "activities" whether alleged or true.
Would be higher with final four appearance(s).
... and the only way to get an A+ is to win it all.
Is the academic rating hurt by some of players quiting school in March to prepare for NBA draft?
Quote from: bilsu on September 14, 2013, 08:47:58 AM
Is the academic rating hurt by some of players quiting school in March to prepare for NBA draft?
If by "academic rating" you mean the APR, then absolutely yes. 0/2 for the semester. Hefty blow (no ZFB).
Back to the topic at hand.
A overall, but closer to an A - than an A +. Need to be playing the final weekend to remove any thought of the minus, and need to win it all to get the +.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 14, 2013, 12:27:01 AM
I'd call it an affirmative doubling down.
It's not affirmative anything. It's the ultimate negative. Gives you (in your mind) the high ground to rip whoever gets the job. For someone who wishes it was still 1955 that's valuable territory.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 14, 2013, 05:45:44 PM
It's not affirmative anything. It's the ultimate negative. Gives you (in your mind) the high ground to rip whoever gets the job. For someone who wishes it was still 1955 that's valuable territory.
Amen brother.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on September 13, 2013, 06:02:58 PM
Beleive me, he did it, and posted it publicly & proudly.
And posted the picture of the ballot.
Doit again. Doit again.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on September 14, 2013, 05:45:44 PM
It's not affirmative anything. It's the ultimate negative. Gives you (in your mind) the high ground to rip whoever gets the job. For someone who wishes it was still 1955 that's valuable territory.
I'm going to rip on both of the crack candidates anyway. If one or both was worth voting for, I would. See how easy this is? Sorry, voting for someone who is inept, can't do the job, isn't qualified to do the job is not my idea of using one's intelligence. Feel free to exercise yours any way you wish. My country allows me to do this. Some years I vote for people, ones I actually think can do the job. Other years I do not....I'm not supporting someone that can't do it.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 18, 2013, 09:05:46 PM
My country allows me to do this.
Your country "allows" you to do all sorts of things that range from bad ideas to self destructive ones. It's a free country - if you want to vote "none of the above" just so you can be different and scream "look at me" fine - but remember, if it's "your country" the winner of the election is also "your president". Grown ups realize this, so sometimes, for the good of their country, they vote for what they perceive to be the less poor choice.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 14, 2013, 12:27:01 AM
I'd call it an affirmative doubling down. After all, writing NONE OF THE ABOVE takes as long as writing a person's name, but it feels so much better. Especially knowing 5 years later how right that decision is.
(http://i1.cpcache.com/product/702174420/vote_none_of_the_above_2012_yard_sign.jpg?height=160&width=160)
Some people are just ahead of their time. ;)
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/02/01/bill-would-allow-nh-voters-to-vote-none-of-the-above/
B
For the following:
~~5 years in with all his players and our record this year is near .500, and the team is much more inconsistent than prior years. Well below average and expectations this year takes the grade down
~~Fairly good recruiting but did not land a quality big until mid season next year, and that through a transfer
~~Way too many recruiting mistakes: Mbao; Roseboro; Taylor; Newbill; Williams; Smith; Durley; McKay and some others probably forgotten. How about Maymon?
~~With the excellent salary and resources Buzz has, this should be an A- and would be if it were not for this very subpar year.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 03, 2014, 09:42:55 AM
Some people are just ahead of their time. ;)
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2014/02/01/bill-would-allow-nh-voters-to-vote-none-of-the-above/
Yeah, nothing better for a democracy than for the most informed to cede the decision making to the least informed and think it's funny/cute. A solid, grown up way to solve our problems.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 13, 2013, 11:44:15 AM
It's not a simple question, nor is the answer. I appreciate what they have both done for my alma mater. Each had a totally different mission and starting point. Different facilities, different leagues, different expectations. Both did a great job, both have their failings. I'm thrilled with what Crean did to put MU back on the map, a major influence to getting us into the Big East, proving we belonged in the Big East, going to the Final Four, hiring Buzz Williams, etc....all of which helped Buzz tremendously. I'm equally thrilled that Buzz has done the job he has done....could have gone sideways and he didn't allow that to happen.
Why are we making this into a 6th grade do you like Sally more than Jenny? I want both chicks! ;D
Because there are some likely 6th graders here, Chico's. Can't you tell by their posts?
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 13, 2013, 10:49:53 PM
Wow...the shock that a thread about how Buzz did his first five years degrades to an argument about Crean. Color me amazed! :o :o :o
By the way, is this Buzz's 6th year? I did not check. But somebody posted that he has 6 straight NCAA appearances. If it is his 6th year, that guy sure is confident about where we are headed this year.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 03, 2014, 10:18:57 AM
By the way, is this Buzz's 6th year? I did not check. But somebody posted that he has 6 straight NCAA appearances. If it is his 6th year, that guy sure is confident about where we are headed this year.
It is. This thread was hoopalooped
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 18, 2013, 09:05:46 PM
I'm going to rip on both of the crack candidates anyway. If one or both was worth voting for, I would. See how easy this is? Sorry, voting for someone who is inept, can't do the job, isn't qualified to do the job is not my idea of using one's intelligence. Feel free to exercise yours any way you wish. My country allows me to do this. Some years I vote for people, ones I actually think can do the job. Other years I do not....I'm not supporting someone that can't do it.
Then why don't you simply write someone in?
I will add to the A category.
The dude was not dealt the best hand outside of MU being a rich basketball-only school (resources, fan base, etc). The truth is this. MU is not a Kansas or Kentucky so its not like we have elite talent (or coaching) crawling to get in. It takes alot of work to get talented kids to sign on the dotted line. Crean did not leave Buzz a full cupboard. The first year was great with the three amigos. By Buzz's third year, it was basically all of Buzz's players. To add to this, even though I know every program goes through injuries and tough breaks, Buzz has had A WHOLE bunch in the last 5 years. Injuries to Junior, Du. Wilson, Fulce, Otule, Taylor, James, I am sure I am missing more. Blue leaving was tough because he was not projected to get drafted at all and most kids would have stayed. With all of that, we will had really good success.
This year totally sucks but this year would have been different had we had Blue, full strength Taylor, and a healthy Du. Wilson. This year is bad but I don't think the future has looked this promising in some time. All the freshmen look like ballers and Du. Wilson was suppose to be one of the best ones in the class. Next year's class looks rock solid. And as a MU fan, I am happy with the state of the program.
- Years 1 - 4 on the court, A+
- Year 5 on the court - C
- Off the court / Player Turnover - B- too much drama, too many recruits never making it to the season, too many surprise transfers...
I would say that averages to a B+ overall for 5 years...
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 03, 2014, 12:46:59 PM
- Years 1 - 4 on the court, A+
- Year 5 on the court - C
- Off the court / Player Turnover - B- too much drama, too many recruits never making it to the season, too many surprise transfers...
I would say that averages to a B+ overall for 5 years...
Year 5 on the court we won the BEast championship and made the elite 8. This is year 6, which is what I'm assuming you're giving the C to.
yep - one year off on the C
Quote from: Jajuannaman on February 03, 2014, 12:56:23 PM
Year 5 on the court we won the BEast championship and made the elite 8. This is year 6, which is what I'm assuming you're giving the C to.
I had it has an A, closer to an A- than A+ at the time of the original post. Would consider this year a D to this point, dropping the overall grade to a B, closer to a B+ than a B-.