Not a good time for bulldogs, it seems. At Butler, the mascot has heart problems:
http://bleacherreport.com/tb/daXrG?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=big-east-basketball
At Georgetown, the mascot didn't pass the probation period:
http://bleacherreport.com/tb/daX8X?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=big-east-basketball
"I did not see this coming," said the head of the student group that cares for the mascot.
Yeah, well, pay attention next time.
In an act of solidarity, and to further honor our new conference brethren, I suggest we lay down to rest, for good, our own mascot, the wonderfully generic and completely uninspiring Golden Eagle.
Quote from: MUCam on August 03, 2013, 12:42:26 PM
In an act of solidarity, and to further honor our new conference brethren, I suggest we lay down to rest, for good, our own mascot, the wonderfully generic and completely uninspiring Golden Eagle.
What a generous thought. Let's start a petition.
Quote from: MUCam on August 03, 2013, 12:42:26 PM
In an act of solidarity, and to further honor our new conference brethren, I suggest we lay down to rest, for good, our own mascot, the wonderfully generic and completely uninspiring Golden Eagle.
I'll buy that. Time to go back to the Warriors, which will never happen in this PC world. However, we still have the
Redskins, Braves, Chippewas, Fighting Irish, Seminoles, Red Storm, Reds, etc. etc.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 03, 2013, 01:00:32 PM
I'll buy that. Time to go back to the Warriors, which will never happen in this PC world. However, we still have the
Redskins, Braves, Chippewas, Fighting Irish, Seminoles, Red Storm, Reds, etc. etc.
Umm what's wrong with the Reds? They used to be the Cincinnati Red Stockings it has nothing to do with native Americans.
And the "Red Storm" is because SJU dropped "Redmen."
And nobody will touch the Blackhawks. That logo is too cool.
First dog needs to go paleo, and fast.
And Orange because Cuse dropped "orangemen"
Quote from: Slim on August 03, 2013, 01:46:28 PM
And nobody will touch the Blackhawks. That logo is too cool.
Plus the government likes and uses it.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on August 03, 2013, 01:35:28 PM
Umm what's wrong with the Reds? They used to be the Cincinnati Red Stockings it has nothing to do with native Americans.
Nothing wrong with the Reds-maybe somebody could construe it to be a slur for Chicoms. And red Storm is just a PC ripoff of Redmen. Wish we could go back to the old Mascots.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 03, 2013, 12:59:49 PM
What a generous thought. Let's start a petition.
And then we can be the gold again!
If we are not going back to Warriors don't mess with it.
Quote from: MUMonster03 on August 03, 2013, 03:03:14 PM
And then we can be the gold again!
If we are not going back to Warriors don't mess with it.
Gold>>>>>>>>>>>Golden Eagles
At least they try to have real dogs. I'm still waiting for a falconer to unleash a real golden eagle to fly around the BC.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 03, 2013, 01:00:32 PM
I'll buy that. Time to go back to the Warriors, which will never happen in this PC world. However, we still have the
Redskins, Braves, Chippewas, Fighting Irish, Seminoles, Red Storm, Reds, etc. etc.
Since we can't go back to Warriors, we should go with Worriers... at least it would fit for most of the people on this board.
Would Warrior be a bad ass mascot to have? Yes. But as of right now, its not going to happen. And its our own fault. Have you looked at how racist our mascot was back in the day? Willie Wampum is potentially, to this day, the most racist mascot this side of Chief Wahoo. I get it, back then we weren't as PC. But we continue to immortalize the racism by wearing our Willie Wampum memorabilia, by having our users names and profile pictures be Willie Wampum related, and blaming the tribes for standing up for themselves. The students carry this on too, every game there is at least one student in war paint and a headdress standing in the front row.
The tribes have repeatedly stated that the reason they don't want us using Warriors anymore is because they are afraid that alumni specifically will start bringing back some of the old racist traditions. Who can blame them? We still use some Native American imagery even though our mascot has nothing to do with Native Americans. If we change back to the Warriors, all of that could come back in force.
Are other mascots more racist than the Warriors? Absolutely. I mean Redskins? Seriously? But that doesn't give us permission to add to the hate. We are a Jesuit institution, we are supposed to be better than the rest.
I want to be the Warriors again and I think it can happen. First we need to prove that we are no longer glorifying our racist days of the past. Take down your pictures of Willie Wampum. Change your user names. Stop whining about how unfair the tribes are. And most importantly, acknowledge that our past actions were racist and will not be tolerated in the future.
If we do all that, may be the tribes would actually be comfortable with letting us use the Warriors with a knight or Trojan or something as our mascot.
Reading this, I could see some people take this as inflammatory or as a betrayal. Please keep an open mind. I want Warriors back as much as anybody. I just think the better strategy is to treat the tribes with respect rather than continually bashing them and the administration.
Quote from: Analytical Eagle on August 03, 2013, 04:10:58 PM
If we do all that, may be the tribes would actually be comfortable with letting us use the Warriors with a knight or Trojan or something as our mascot.
A Warrior doesn't have to be a Native American. There are LOTS of possibilities.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&authuser=0&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1247&bih=637&q=warriors+logo&oq=warrior&gs_l=img.1.6.0l10.1712.3482.0.10149.7.7.0.0.0.0.83.409.7.7.0.ehm_pq_signedout%2Chmss2%3Dfalse%2Chmmql%3D2...0...1.1.23.img..0.7.409.z4cEoLM3uME (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&authuser=0&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1247&bih=637&q=warriors+logo&oq=warrior&gs_l=img.1.6.0l10.1712.3482.0.10149.7.7.0.0.0.0.83.409.7.7.0.ehm_pq_signedout%2Chmss2%3Dfalse%2Chmmql%3D2...0...1.1.23.img..0.7.409.z4cEoLM3uME)
Quote from: mr.MUskie on August 03, 2013, 04:23:36 PM
A Warrior doesn't have to be a Native American. There are LOTS of possibilities.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&authuser=0&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1247&bih=637&q=warriors+logo&oq=warrior&gs_l=img.1.6.0l10.1712.3482.0.10149.7.7.0.0.0.0.83.409.7.7.0.ehm_pq_signedout%2Chmss2%3Dfalse%2Chmmql%3D2...0...1.1.23.img..0.7.409.z4cEoLM3uME (https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&authuser=0&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1247&bih=637&q=warriors+logo&oq=warrior&gs_l=img.1.6.0l10.1712.3482.0.10149.7.7.0.0.0.0.83.409.7.7.0.ehm_pq_signedout%2Chmss2%3Dfalse%2Chmmql%3D2...0...1.1.23.img..0.7.409.z4cEoLM3uME)
Yes, and if we brought back Warriors, we would have to use a non-native American. But the administration has said they won't change back unless the tribes give their blessing. And the tribes have said they won't give their blessing because even if we go to a non-native american warrior they are worried some of the old racist traditions will come back
Quote from: Analytical Eagle on August 03, 2013, 04:36:02 PM
Yes, and if we brought back Warriors, we would have to use a non-native American. But the administration has said they won't change back unless the tribes give their blessing. And the tribes have said they won't give their blessing because even if we go to a non-native american warrior they are worried some of the old racist traditions will come back
It doesn't help when students are wearing "headdresses" that are shown on television.
Quote from: Analytical Eagle on August 03, 2013, 04:10:58 PM
Would Warrior be a bad ass mascot to have? Yes. But as of right now, its not going to happen. And its our own fault. Have you looked at how racist our mascot was back in the day? Willie Wampum is potentially, to this day, the most racist mascot this side of Chief Wahoo. I get it, back then we weren't as PC. But we continue to immortalize the racism by wearing our Willie Wampum memorabilia, by having our users names and profile pictures be Willie Wampum related, and blaming the tribes for standing up for themselves. The students carry this on too, every game there is at least one student in war paint and a headdress standing in the front row.
The tribes have repeatedly stated that the reason they don't want us using Warriors anymore is because they are afraid that alumni specifically will start bringing back some of the old racist traditions. Who can blame them? We still use some Native American imagery even though our mascot has nothing to do with Native Americans. If we change back to the Warriors, all of that could come back in force.
Are other mascots more racist than the Warriors? Absolutely. I mean Redskins? Seriously? But that doesn't give us permission to add to the hate. We are a Jesuit institution, we are supposed to be better than the rest.
I want to be the Warriors again and I think it can happen. First we need to prove that we are no longer glorifying our racist days of the past. Take down your pictures of Willie Wampum. Change your user names. Stop whining about how unfair the tribes are. And most importantly, acknowledge that our past actions were racist and will not be tolerated in the future.
If we do all that, may be the tribes would actually be comfortable with letting us use the Warriors with a knight or Trojan or something as our mascot.
Reading this, I could see some people take this as inflammatory or as a betrayal. Please keep an open mind. I want Warriors back as much as anybody. I just think the better strategy is to treat the tribes with respect rather than continually bashing them and the administration.
Man that is one big crock of PC jargon. There is no "hate" or "racism" in warrior as you stipulate. People can remember the Marquette Warriors without any thought of racism or hate. Then the PC Warriors begin to dictate to others their agenda, and make it into something that is not real.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 03, 2013, 04:46:20 PM
Man that is one big crock of PC jargon. There is no "hate" or "racism" in warrior as you stipulate. People can remember the Marquette Warriors without any thought of racism or hate. Then the PC Warriors begin to dictate to others their agenda, and make it into something that is not real.
Compromise time! We could be the PC Warriors!! We could somehow tie our mascot into all the stuff going on in Washington that Chicos is ranting about.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 03, 2013, 04:46:20 PM
Man that is one big crock of PC jargon. There is no "hate" or "racism" in warrior as you stipulate. People can remember the Marquette Warriors without any thought of racism or hate. Then the PC Warriors begin to dictate to others their agenda, and make it into something that is not real.
You can disagree all you want, I respect your opinion. Personally I agree we get a little to caught up in being PC. But look at it this way, which path is more likely to get the Warriors back?
A) We admit we had a racist mascot in the past and agree to be diligent about keeping all native american imagery out of Marquette events in the future.
B) We continue the fight against political correctness and repeatedly tell the native Americans that they have no right to be offended by our choice of mascot
I'm not trying to make a comment on what's right. I just think this is the only way we could ever get Warriors back
Knights are offensive to English people, and Trojans are offensive to Turks. Or is it not offensive because nobody in those ethnic groups seem to mind?
We will NEVER bring Warriors back, I'm 100% sure of it. EVEN IF we had every Native American in the US AND Canada say that it's okay that MU uses Warriors, it's gone forever.
Why is that? Because even though that group may not find our use of it offensive, the perception generally is that it is racist. See, North Dakota, for example. Changed the Fighting Sioux name DESPITE the fact that the tribe said that they actually liked ND using it--they said it made the Sioux tribe proud and looked upon the mascot/name as a badge of honor. In any case, it's no longer used because it simply makes the university appear racist, even though the supposed offended race is not offended whatsoever.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on August 03, 2013, 06:35:09 PM
Knights are offensive to English people, and Trojans are offensive to Turks.
Is that true?
Quote from: ElDonBDon on August 03, 2013, 06:35:09 PM
See, North Dakota, for example. Changed the Fighting Sioux name DESPITE the fact that the tribe said that they actually liked ND using it--they said it made the Sioux tribe proud and looked upon the mascot/name as a badge of honor. In any case, it's no longer used because it simply makes the university appear racist, even though the supposed offended race is not offended whatsoever.
Pretty sure the NCAA is the one that forced them to change. Something about not letting them participate in postseason events and/or hosting postseason events.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on August 03, 2013, 06:35:09 PM
Knights are offensive to English people, and Trojans are offensive to Turks. Or is it not offensive because nobody in those ethnic groups seem to mind?
We will NEVER bring Warriors back, I'm 100% sure of it. EVEN IF we had every Native American in the US AND Canada say that it's okay that MU uses Warriors, it's gone forever.
Why is that? Because even though that group may not find our use of it offensive, the perception generally is that it is racist. See, North Dakota, for example. Changed the Fighting Sioux name DESPITE the fact that the tribe said that they actually liked ND using it--they said it made the Sioux tribe proud and looked upon the mascot/name as a badge of honor. In any case, it's no longer used because it simply makes the university appear racist, even though the supposed offended race is not offended whatsoever.
Actually there are multiple Sioux tribes and not all were for it.
Quote from: Analytical Eagle on August 03, 2013, 04:10:58 PM
Would Warrior be a bad ass mascot to have? Yes. But as of right now, its not going to happen. And its our own fault. Have you looked at how racist our mascot was back in the day? Willie Wampum is potentially, to this day, the most racist mascot this side of Chief Wahoo. I get it, back then we weren't as PC. But we continue to immortalize the racism by wearing our Willie Wampum memorabilia, by having our users names and profile pictures be Willie Wampum related, and blaming the tribes for standing up for themselves. The students carry this on too, every game there is at least one student in war paint and a headdress standing in the front row.
The tribes have repeatedly stated that the reason they don't want us using Warriors anymore is because they are afraid that alumni specifically will start bringing back some of the old racist traditions. Who can blame them? We still use some Native American imagery even though our mascot has nothing to do with Native Americans. If we change back to the Warriors, all of that could come back in force.
Are other mascots more racist than the Warriors? Absolutely. I mean Redskins? Seriously? But that doesn't give us permission to add to the hate. We are a Jesuit institution, we are supposed to be better than the rest.
I want to be the Warriors again and I think it can happen. First we need to prove that we are no longer glorifying our racist days of the past. Take down your pictures of Willie Wampum. Change your user names. Stop whining about how unfair the tribes are. And most importantly, acknowledge that our past actions were racist and will not be tolerated in the future.
If we do all that, may be the tribes would actually be comfortable with letting us use the Warriors with a knight or Trojan or something as our mascot.
Reading this, I could see some people take this as inflammatory or as a betrayal. Please keep an open mind. I want Warriors back as much as anybody. I just think the better strategy is to treat the tribes with respect rather than continually bashing them and the administration.
You just hit the nail on the head. Does "Warriors" have to be racist? Nope, but we sure as unnatural carnal knowledge made it racist and as such, we lost the privilege of using the name Warriors. I know that sucks for alumn but it isn't changing.
That said, Golden Eagles blows.
Quote from: Analytical Eagle on August 03, 2013, 04:10:58 PM
Would Warrior be a bad ass mascot to have? Yes. But as of right now, its not going to happen. And its our own fault. Have you looked at how racist our mascot was back in the day? Willie Wampum is potentially, to this day, the most racist mascot this side of Chief Wahoo. I get it, back then we weren't as PC. But we continue to immortalize the racism by wearing our Willie Wampum memorabilia, by having our users names and profile pictures be Willie Wampum related, and blaming the tribes for standing up for themselves. The students carry this on too, every game there is at least one student in war paint and a headdress standing in the front row.
The tribes have repeatedly stated that the reason they don't want us using Warriors anymore is because they are afraid that alumni specifically will start bringing back some of the old racist traditions. Who can blame them? We still use some Native American imagery even though our mascot has nothing to do with Native Americans. If we change back to the Warriors, all of that could come back in force.
Are other mascots more racist than the Warriors? Absolutely. I mean Redskins? Seriously? But that doesn't give us permission to add to the hate. We are a Jesuit institution, we are supposed to be better than the rest.
I want to be the Warriors again and I think it can happen. First we need to prove that we are no longer glorifying our racist days of the past. Take down your pictures of Willie Wampum. Change your user names. Stop whining about how unfair the tribes are. And most importantly, acknowledge that our past actions were racist and will not be tolerated in the future.
If we do all that, may be the tribes would actually be comfortable with letting us use the Warriors with a knight or Trojan or something as our mascot.
Reading this, I could see some people take this as inflammatory or as a betrayal. Please keep an open mind. I want Warriors back as much as anybody. I just think the better strategy is to treat the tribes with respect rather than continually bashing them and the administration.
That's the attitude! "We're Jesuit, so we're better than you!"
Quote from: Slim on August 03, 2013, 01:46:28 PM
And nobody will touch the Blackhawks. That logo is too cool.
Blackhawks are named after one individual guy, Chief Blackhawk, who is held in esteem.
The Blackhawks' name is not a reference to an entire people and is certainly not derogatory.
Quote from: Terror Skink on August 03, 2013, 04:46:13 PM
It doesn't help when students are wearing "headdresses" that are shown on television.
Give them the Warriors name associated with a knight or spartan or something else, and that goes away very quickly. They'll adopt the persona.
Quote from: EnderWiggen on August 03, 2013, 07:35:08 PM
You just hit the nail on the head. Does "Warriors" have to be racist? Nope, but we sure as unnatural carnal knowledge made it racist and as such, we lost the privilege of using the name Warriors. I know that sucks for alumn but it isn't changing.
That said, Golden Eagles blows.
::)
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=7479527
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 03, 2013, 08:29:47 PM
http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/local&id=7479527
It comes down to respect. When the students wear headdresses or do the tomahawk chant I alternate between wanting to punch them and shaking my head at their lack of awareness that these actions are the root of the problem.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on August 03, 2013, 09:52:34 PM
It comes down to respect. When the students wear headdresses or do the tomahawk chant I alternate between wanting to punch them and shaking my head at their lack of awareness that these actions are the root of the problem.
The Seminole tribe endorses the Tomahawk tribe....I guess not all tribes feel it is disrespectful. Some might argue having a casino is, but to each their own.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 03, 2013, 08:22:17 PM
Give them the Warriors name associated with a knight or spartan or something else, and that goes away very quickly. They'll adopt the persona.
Eventually yes. But everytime they dress like that now, it simply reinforces their decision. They will never get there.
I've never understood how saying "We admire you so much that we want to name ourselves after you" is hateful or disrespectful or racist.
Quote from: mr.MUskie on August 03, 2013, 10:08:48 PM
I've never understood how saying "We admire you so much that we want to name ourselves after you" is hateful or disrespectful or racist.
It's not the naming that was the problem. It's the imagery.
Quote from: mr.MUskie on August 03, 2013, 10:08:48 PM
I've never understood how saying "We admire you so much that we want to name ourselves after you" is hateful or disrespectful or racist.
Think about it this way, would you consider it respectful if you named a team the Africans and everyone wore blackface to the games? Its the same as naming a team after a native american tribe and wearing war paint or headdresses. We've simply been naming teams after native americans for so long that we've normalized it.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on August 03, 2013, 06:35:09 PM
Knights are offensive to English people, and Trojans are offensive to Turks. Or is it not offensive because nobody in those ethnic groups seem to mind?
Knights are a profession, not a people. Trojans were residents of a single city, not an entire race. Also, there were knights in several cultures and Trojans are long extinct. I would argue that the Brits could be offensive, or the Turks, but not the knights or the Trojans.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on August 03, 2013, 06:35:09 PM
Knights are offensive to English
We will NEVER bring Warriors back, I'm 100% sure of it. EVEN IF we had every Native American in the US AND Canada say that it's okay that MU uses Warriors, it's gone forever.
Maybe true. What I have heard in the past is that during the 2003 Gold debaucle, the administration sincerely looked into returning the Warriors but the tribes said no. If they had given the blessing, I think we would be the Warriors again.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on August 03, 2013, 06:35:09 PM
Why is that? Because even though that group may not find our use of it offensive, the perception generally is that it is racist. See, North Dakota, for example. Changed the Fighting Sioux name DESPITE the fact that the tribe said that they actually liked ND using it--they said it made the Sioux tribe proud and looked upon the mascot/name as a badge of honor. In any case, it's no longer used because it simply makes the university appear racist, even though the supposed offended race is not offended whatsoever.
North Dakota changed because the NCAA said it wasn't ok. They were banned from hosting postseason events and using their mascot at away postseason events. There is also potential talk of harsher penalties in the future. It was a pre-emptive move.
The other difference is that they used an actual race as their mascot. We are using a profession. If we completely changed the imagery, I think we could avoid bad publicity...but who knows.
Quote from: wadesworld on August 03, 2013, 07:48:52 PM
That's the attitude! "We're Jesuit, so we're better than you!"
We are supposed to hold ourselves to a higher standard. Better?
Quote from: mr.MUskie on August 03, 2013, 04:10:16 PM
Since we can't go back to Warriors, we should go with Worriers... at least it would fit for most of the people on this board.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on August 03, 2013, 07:50:44 PM
Blackhawks are named after one individual guy, Chief Blackhawk, who is held in esteem.
The Blackhawks' name is not a reference to an entire people and is certainly not derogatory.
These two posts gave me an idea. Let's get around the problem by naming our mascot after an individual whose name represents most MU fans who post on Scoop, myself included, Sitting Bull.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 03, 2013, 04:46:20 PM
Man that is one big crock of PC jargon. There is no "hate" or "racism" in warrior as you stipulate. People can remember the Marquette Warriors without any thought of racism or hate. Then the PC Warriors begin to dictate to others their agenda, and make it into something that is not real.
No kidding. Thanks, Obama.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 03, 2013, 09:57:53 PM
The Seminole tribe endorses the Tomahawk tribe....I guess not all tribes feel it is disrespectful. Some might argue having a casino is, but to each their own.
Tomahawk chant. Atlanta Braves, etc.
Not Tomahawk tribe.
We are the golden eagles, get over it already. Sheesh.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on August 04, 2013, 12:03:55 PM
We are the golden eagles, get over it already. Sheesh.
No, we are not.
We are Warriors.
I'm surprised no one brought up the payoff yet from the Native American trines to MU.
Probably because it's never been made public.
many of us will always be warriors..., many of our college memories are of the drums beating and the fans doing the 'thunderclap' while Dean 'the dream' drove the offense. I still remember the article in Sports Illustrated where an opposing coach talked of how hard it was to play at the arena "...and the drums, those damn drums!".
I also remember Hank Raymonds polling representatives of the 5 major tribes in Wisconsin and they unanimously stated they took NO offense by the Warriors. In spite of this we changed to the 'First' Warrior. It was a one man vote by Fr. DiUlio to drop the Warriors. All the previous pc stuff is crap.
Quote from: MARQKC on August 03, 2013, 11:50:28 AM
Not a good time for bulldogs, it seems. At Butler, the mascot has heart problems:
http://bleacherreport.com/tb/daXrG?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=big-east-basketball
At Georgetown, the mascot didn't pass the probation period:
http://bleacherreport.com/tb/daX8X?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=big-east-basketball
"I did not see this coming," said the head of the student group that cares for the mascot.
Yeah, well, pay attention next time.
What do they call Creaning/Buzzcutting at Georgetown?
The administration is terrible with regards to transparency. This is not new. This whole thing is BS and really disappointing. People will get over it if they just replace JJ with another dog, but if they actually discontinue having a live bulldog on campus... well I just pray it doesn't come to that.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on August 03, 2013, 07:50:44 PM
Blackhawks are named after one individual guy, Chief Blackhawk, who is held in esteem.
The Blackhawks' name is not a reference to an entire people and is certainly not derogatory.
I do not believe the Blackhawks are named after Black Hawk.
I believe it was McLaughlin, founder of the Blackhawks, who served in the 86th Infantry Division also known as "Blackhawk" Division. He named the team after the Division.
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on August 04, 2013, 03:52:34 PM
The administration is terrible with regards to transparency.
Welcome to another organ of the Catholic Church.
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 04, 2013, 12:44:30 PM
No, we are not.
We are Warriors.
Yeah, but we have been the golden eagles for almost a decade. Time to move on.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on August 04, 2013, 08:55:38 PM
Yeah, but we have been the golden eagles for almost a decade. Time to move on.
Huh? When did WE become the golden eagles? Ask anyone on this board.
Quote from: MUCam on August 03, 2013, 12:42:26 PM
In an act of solidarity, and to further honor our new conference brethren, I suggest we lay down to rest, for good, our own mascot, the wonderfully generic and completely uninspiring Golden Eagle.
No kidding! The Marquette Golden Eagle is the world's first furry bird!
Furry Birds? Yeah right. We need a Warrior again!
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 04, 2013, 09:16:08 PM
Huh? When did WE become the golden eagles? Ask anyone on this board.
1994 as I recall. Just as we became Warriors in 1954. If people truly care about our roots, why not push for Hilltoppers? Don't get me wrong, Warriors is a fine mascot name, and I prefer it to Golden Eagles (though Warriors still isn't my first choice) but acting like we never became GEs is just silly. It happened. It happened almost 2 decades ago. We have players who weren't even born when we were Warriors. Time to move on and support Marquette regardless what the mascot is.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 05, 2013, 08:24:25 AM
1994 as I recall. Just as we became Warriors in 1954. If people truly care about our roots, why not push for Hilltoppers? Don't get me wrong, Warriors is a fine mascot name, and I prefer it to Golden Eagles (though Warriors still isn't my first choice) but acting like we never became GEs is just silly. It happened. It happened almost 2 decades ago. We have players who weren't even born when we were Warriors. Time to move on and support Marquette regardless what the mascot is.
IF we had dropped the Native American logo and kept the name Warriors in 1994, all would have just moved on. The mistake was in the way everything was handled in 1994. I don't think anyone but Fr. DiUlio disputes this.
The answer to all of this was to have returned to Hilltoppers back in 2005 or whenever it was there was the "vote" on what the name would be post the Gold Debacle.
By the way, I prefer Gold to Golden Eagles. At least Gold is unique.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 05, 2013, 08:24:25 AM
1994 as I recall. Just as we became Warriors in 1954. If people truly care about our roots, why not push for Hilltoppers? Don't get me wrong, Warriors is a fine mascot name, and I prefer it to Golden Eagles (though Warriors still isn't my first choice) but acting like we never became GEs is just silly. It happened. It happened almost 2 decades ago. We have players who weren't even born when we were Warriors. Time to move on and support Marquette regardless what the mascot is.
I will never support Golden Eagles.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on August 05, 2013, 09:16:34 AM
The answer to all of this was to have returned to Hilltoppers back in 2005 or whenever it was there was the "vote" on what the name would be post the Gold Debacle.
Or even back in '94. Unique name speaks to tradition.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on August 05, 2013, 09:16:34 AM
IF we had dropped the Native American logo and kept the name Warriors in 1994, all would have just moved on. The mistake was in the way everything was handled in 1994. I don't think anyone but Fr. DiUlio disputes this.
The answer to all of this was to have returned to Hilltoppers back in 2005 or whenever it was there was the "vote" on what the name would be post the Gold Debacle.
By the way, I prefer Gold to Golden Eagles. At least Gold is unique.
I prefer gold as well but the way they approached it was stupid with a childlike mascot named Goldie. I just think the name on the front of the jersey is a hell of a lot more important that anything else and that name is Marquette not golden eagles not warriors not gold not hilltoppers
Quote from: Terror Skink on August 05, 2013, 09:27:23 AM
I will never support Golden Eagles.
Or even back in '94. Unique name speaks to tradition.
The basketball program doesn't even support the Golden Eagles.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on August 05, 2013, 09:16:34 AM
The answer to all of this was to have returned to Hilltoppers back in 2005 or whenever it was there was the "vote" on what the name would be post the Gold Debacle.
There it is. Our new name. The Gold Debacle.
Quote from: MUCam on August 03, 2013, 12:42:26 PM
In an act of solidarity, and to further honor our new conference brethren, I suggest we lay down to rest, for good, our own mascot, the wonderfully generic and completely uninspiring Golden Eagle.
We should have been the marquette gold. That way when we wore gold in the stands
we would be the team's mascot.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 05, 2013, 08:24:25 AM
Time to move on and support Marquette regardless what the mascot is.
My support for Marquette has never wavered. Never will. That does not translate into accepting the edict of one very bad president who deep sixed Warriors and gave us Golden Eagles.
Quote from: PTM on August 04, 2013, 07:41:15 PM
I do not believe the Blackhawks are named after Black Hawk.
I believe it was McLaughlin, founder of the Blackhawks, who served in the 86th Infantry Division also known as "Blackhawk" Division. He named the team after the Division.
True. But the division was named after Chief Blackhawk.
Plus, look at the sweaters
I would not be a complete summer if we were not having yet another "Warriors", "Hilltoppers", "Gold" and "Golden Eagles" debate!
Was Father DiUlio not particularly smart when he made the decision? Of course! Does Golden Eagles have any connection to us at Marquette? Well, until I see some Furry Birds flying over Milwaukee (those old Delta jets with moss on them don't count), probably not!
Look, I'll always be a Warrior but times change. It's been 20 years since we became the Furry Birds and we Warriors are dying off, slowly perhaps, but most of us are three decades or more out of college. It's time to let this one go, folks and move on to more important things.
I have thought for a long time the simple answer that would appease everyone would be to drop the mascot. No Golden Eagles, no Hilltoppers, no Gold, no Warriors, just Marquette. After all, through all of these nicknames, the only constant is Marquette.
Also...Hilltoppers wouldn't be unique. Western Kentucky are also the Hilltoppers.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 05, 2013, 08:24:25 AM
1994 as I recall. Just as we became Warriors in 1954. If people truly care about our roots, why not push for Hilltoppers? Don't get me wrong, Warriors is a fine mascot name, and I prefer it to Golden Eagles (though Warriors still isn't my first choice) but acting like we never became GEs is just silly. It happened. It happened almost 2 decades ago. We have players who weren't even born when we were Warriors. Time to move on and support Marquette regardless what the mascot is.
Clearly, we all support MU.
It's as much about how it happened more than anything else.
If it's true that the school took a big payout, that is equally frustrating. That one is a head scratcher.
Quote from: Terror Skink on August 05, 2013, 09:27:23 AM
I will never support Golden Eagles.
Or even back in '94. Unique name speaks to tradition.
Gold > Golden Eagles. Thanks everyone for freaking out so much that that was ruined. But no, we couldn't handle the simple, predictable, and easy jokes for the first 2 weeks.
I'd still take Jumpin' Jesuits...who's with me! Time to start a petition on petitions.whitehouse.gov
Quote from: Aughnanure on August 06, 2013, 10:50:36 AM
I'd still take Jumpin' Jesuits...who's with me! Time to start a petition on petitions.whitehouse.gov
That would offend members of the Jesuit order who are mobility impaired.
Shame on you for hurting Fr. Naus's feelings!
I prefer the name Warriors but I have no problem with Golden Eagles.
In 30 years or so, the pro-Warriors crowd will die off and it won't be an issue anymore.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on August 06, 2013, 12:42:03 PM
I prefer the name Warriors but I have no problem with Golden Eagles.
In 30 years or so, the pro-Warriors crowd will die off and it won't be an issue anymore.
I don't think people would care so much if the name wasn't something as in your face worthless as "golden eagles." Might as well have gone with another goddam wildcat mascot.
Quote from: warrior07 on August 06, 2013, 01:02:38 PM
I don't think people would care so much if the name wasn't something as in your face worthless as "golden eagles." Might as well have gone with another goddam wildcat mascot.
I don't think people would care if the name was Warriors with a golden eagle mascot.
Blackhawks and Seminoles are tribe names and the logos are just of Native American faces. What about either of those is offensive?
Quote from: TallTitan34 on August 06, 2013, 01:07:14 PM
I don't think people would care if the name was Warriors with a golden eagle mascot.
Could the eagle have warpaint and a tomahawk? That would be cool....
Quote from: klyrish on August 06, 2013, 01:45:43 PM
Blackhawks and Seminoles are tribe names and the logos are just of Native American faces. What about either of those is offensive?
You are using an actual living people as a mascot. Imagine your entire culture being reduced down to a sideshow attraction at a sporting event. Think about it this way, would you name a team the Africans? Or the Mexicans? Or the Arabs? If that's not ok, why is it ok to name it after Native Americans?
We don't mind the stereotype of "The Fighting Irish" Nicknames are something meant to instill pride not demean anybody. What would be the point. Who would want to be the Dribbling Doofusses?
Sitting tonight at Bearcat stables in Edwards, Colorado, at the barbecue.
Sportin' the blue and gold MU sweatshirt.
Stepped out from the bar and started watching the singer. He stopped his song I front of the whole crowd and proclaimed "Go Warriors"!
Can't make that sh1t up.
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 04, 2013, 12:44:30 PM
No, we are not.
We are Warriors.
If you entered Marquette in or after 1994, you're a Golden Eagle. Like it or not (which is your perogative), it is fact.
The last Warriors were the class of 1997 who were Freshmen in the fall of 1993 and in their second semester when the name change occurred.
Quote from: klyrish on August 06, 2013, 01:45:43 PM
Blackhawks and Seminoles are tribe names and the logos are just of Native American faces. What about either of those is offensive?
No, Chief Blackhawk is one individual guy and he was of the Sauk Tribe.
Hence, "Fear the Chief" and other Blackhawks slogans/expression about "the Chief".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Hawk_%28Sauk_leader%29
Quote from: Avenue Commons on August 06, 2013, 08:32:43 PM
If you entered Marquette in or after 1994, you're a Golden Eagle. Like it or not (which is your perogative), it is fact.
The last Warriors were the class of 1997 who were Freshmen in the fall of 1993 and in their second semester when the name change occurred.
I weep for those post '94 people. It's like going from a solid pick up truck and being given a Prius. Emasculated.
In many ways this is what the university is doing with the usage of the new MU interlocking logo. They don't use the GE bird logo at all anymore. You'll never see the bird logo anywhere.
Quote from: brewcity77 on August 06, 2013, 09:34:42 AM
I have thought for a long time the simple answer that would appease everyone would be to drop the mascot. No Golden Eagles, no Hilltoppers, no Gold, no Warriors, just Marquette. After all, through all of these nicknames, the only constant is Marquette.
Also...Hilltoppers wouldn't be unique. Western Kentucky are also the Hilltoppers.
Interesting vehicle choice.
If you live in the city (especially if you park on the street), you'd take a Prius over a pickup truck all day every day.
Times change.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on August 06, 2013, 08:35:47 PM
I weep for those post '94 people. It's like going from a solid pick up truck and being given a Prius. Emasculated.
Quote from: real chili 83 on August 06, 2013, 07:50:50 PM
Sitting tonight at Bearcat stables in Edwards, Colorado, at the barbecue.
Sportin' the blue and gold MU sweatshirt.
Stepped out from the bar and started watching the singer. He stopped his song I front of the whole crowd and proclaimed "Go Warriors"!
Can't make that sh1t up.
Here's a pic from the singer tonight.
He's from Green Bay, and a UWM grad. His bro is an MU grad, and a recently retired Commander from the Navy. Thank you for your service.
Warrior roots run deep.
Quote from: elephantraker on August 06, 2013, 05:30:46 PM
We don't mind the stereotype of "The Fighting Irish" Nicknames are something meant to instill pride not demean anybody. What would be the point. Who would want to be the Dribbling Doofusses?
We don't mind the Fighting Irish because Notre Dame has always been an Irish serving institution. Back in the days when Irish were second class citizens, Notre Dame catered to them. Since so many Irishmen went there (and for awhile they had a football team of almost all Irishmen) they took on the name fighting Irish. It is still ok because a very significant percentage of students there are actually Irish.
We are not a Native American serving institution. We are a bunch of white men and women yelling that we are Indian Warriors. That's the difference. UNC Pembroke (one of the few tribal schools that plays NCAA ball) can call themselves the Braves.
You may not agree, but I think it is demeaning to another culture. But regardless of that, the imagery we used in the past makes the point moot. Willie Wampum was flat out racist.
We lost the privilege to call ourselves Warriors because of our past racism. I really think we can earn that priviledge back. Stop glorifying Willie Wampum (and similar traditions), change the imagery to something else, and get rid of that stupid headdress the student section always wears. It will take time, but I think the administration/tribes will eventually change their mind.
Great post, Analytical Eagle.
Quote from: Analytical Eagle on August 07, 2013, 12:19:49 AM
We don't mind the Fighting Irish because Notre Dame has always been an Irish serving institution. Back in the days when Irish were second class citizens, Notre Dame catered to them. Since so many Irishmen went there (and for awhile they had a football team of almost all Irishmen) they took on the name fighting Irish. It is still ok because a very significant percentage of students there are actually Irish.
We are not a Native American serving institution. We are a bunch of white men and women yelling that we are Indian Warriors. That's the difference. UNC Pembroke (one of the few tribal schools that plays NCAA ball) can call themselves the Braves.
You may not agree, but I think it is demeaning to another culture. But regardless of that, the imagery we used in the past makes the point moot. Willie Wampum was flat out racist.
We lost the privilege to call ourselves Warriors because of our past racism. I really think we can earn that priviledge back. Stop glorifying Willie Wampum (and similar traditions), change the imagery to something else, and get rid of that stupid headdress the student section always wears. It will take time, but I think the administration/tribes will eventually change their mind.
I see...since we are a bunch of white men and women yelling, them maybe we should be the Howling Honkies or the White Warriors
Quote from: warrior07 on August 06, 2013, 01:02:38 PM
I don't think people would care so much if the name wasn't something as in your face worthless as "golden eagles." Might as well have gone with another goddam wildcat mascot.
Exactly. In retrospect they should have just reverted back to Hilltoppers.
Quote from: Terror Skink on August 07, 2013, 09:19:38 AM
Exactly. In retrospect they should have just reverted back to Hilltoppers.
What would our mascot be? I guy in Liederhosen, wielding a walking stick? That would certainly pull in Milwaukee's German heritage.
Quote from: warriorchick on August 07, 2013, 09:42:44 AM
What would our mascot be? I guy in Liederhosen, wielding a walking stick? That would certainly pull in Milwaukee's German heritage.
I know this is going to strike at the heart of all you hold dear, but I don't think you need one.
And if you do, make it a ram.
Quote from: Terror Skink on August 07, 2013, 09:19:38 AM
Exactly. In retrospect they should have just reverted back to Hilltoppers.
Hilltoppers is just goofy. Had that at MUHS and the chant was "Go Toppers"....lame.
Quote from: willie warrior on August 07, 2013, 09:07:40 AM
I see...since we are a bunch of white men and women yelling, them maybe we should be the Howling Honkies or the White Warriors
Now THAT would be worse than Golden Eagles
Quote from: Analytical Eagle on August 07, 2013, 12:19:49 AM
You may not agree, but I think it is demeaning to another culture. But regardless of that, the imagery we used in the past makes the point moot. Willie Wampum was flat out racist.
We lost the privilege to call ourselves Warriors because of our past racism. I really think we can earn that priviledge back. Stop glorifying Willie Wampum (and similar traditions), change the imagery to something else, and get rid of that stupid headdress the student section always wears. It will take time, but I think the administration/tribes will eventually change their mind.
Marquette did the right thing before it was the popular thing. Willie was gone in 1971. I have argued that if MU kept Willie till 1988 or so, and dropped him, taking on a totally different mascot, we may have been able to keep Warrior as our nickname. As it was, we did the right thing so early, we received no credit.
Quote from: Nukem2 on August 07, 2013, 10:00:23 AM
Hilltoppers is just goofy. Had that at MUHS and the chant was "Go Toppers"....lame.
Don't tell that to a WKU alum.