MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: TallTitan34 on January 05, 2013, 10:48:17 PM
-
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8817624/fleeing-big-east-schools-working-lucrative-tv-deal-basketball (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/8817624/fleeing-big-east-schools-working-lucrative-tv-deal-basketball)
Sources say that Fox, whose Fox Sports 1 channel is set to launch in August, has an initial high offer on the table of more than $500 million for a 12-year deal. Fox Sports 1 will replace the network's motorsports channel Speed, already in 81 million homes. Sources say officials with Fox are scheduled to meet with those representing the interest of the "Catholic 7" in New York City on Wednesday. A Fox spokesman could not immediately be reached for comment. A high-ranking source at NBC Sports Network, which has so far engaged in preliminary discussions with the "Catholic 7," declined comment. ESPN spokesman Josh Krulewitz also declined comment on the network's interest in the "Catholic 7" games.
-
Quick math assuming $500M:
$500M/12yr = $42M a year
7 schools = $6M
8 schools = $5.25M
9 schools = $4.67M
10 schools = $4.2M
11 schools = $3.82M
12 schools = $3.5M
-
At a glance, for a 12-team league, that comes to around $3.5M per school. For 10 teams, it's over $4.1M each. If true, this is setting up to work nicely. And with that much money behind it, you know they'll market it.
-
Plus, it says that only the C7 will share the revenue evenly, with the add-ons taking a lower cut.
-
Rest of the article says the money won't be distributed evenly, the C7 to get $5 mil each.
-
It notes that shares will likely not be even, with the C7 taking closer to $5M for being the founders and doing the negotiating and new invitees getting a lesser payout. A-10 schools might get exit fee assistance and will still be offered 5x or more what they get now to sign up.
-
Plus, it says that only the C7 will share the revenue evenly, with the add-ons taking a lower cut.
That is the most interesting piece of info. For those who said Georgetown was lukewarm, who you crappin?
-
I didn't realize that the network was already in 81 million homes.
-
12 years is a long time for members of a conference to be getting different levels of pay. I can't imagine some schools would be very happy about that over time.
Does Providence deserve more than Xavier or Butler?
-
Be interesting still to see if this is 10 or 12 team league. Now that this info is public, it's huge for the new league. Well played by Georgetown and St. John's.
-
Hooollllyyy crap indeed, if true. Looks like MU will be in a great revenue position when all's said and done if this is true.
-
12 years is a long time for members of a conference to be getting different levels of pay. I can't imagine some schools would be very happy about that over time.
Does Providence deserve more than Xavier or Butler?
It'd be a step up in class/pay from the A10/WCC. Muddle around in those leagues or move up?
-
12 years is a long time for members of a conference to be getting different levels of pay. I can't imagine some schools would be very happy about that over time.
Does Providence deserve more than Xavier or Butler?
Perhaps it'll even out more over time. Even so, if they're getting $400k now and are given maybe $2M to join, plus the C7's supposed cash pile takes care of their A-10 exit fee, plus increased ticket revenue a certainty, plus more national exposure...a huge raise and all of the work already done for them still looks like a really sweet deal.
-
Umm wow.
-
http://www.newscorp.com/news/bunews_206.html (http://www.newscorp.com/news/bunews_206.html) Eric Shanks...one of my former colleagues for five years at DTV is now the President of Fox Sports...he's an IU guy and one of the two brains behind Fox Sports 1.
In terms of Fox Sports 1, it doesn't exist today. http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2012/11/26/Media/FoxSports1.aspx (http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2012/11/26/Media/FoxSports1.aspx) They are hoping to compete with ESPN, that's a tall order but Shanks will make a go of it. Shanks and Hill have done some pretty cool stuff over the years, like the yellow first down line on broadcasts. Of course, they also did the glowing puck, so you can't be right all the time. You'll notice on some providers that Speed Channel has been moved to a lower tier package as a result of recent renegotiation with FOX. That means they are broadening their distribution. We just went through this last year and had to move Speed as well. They've been building up for this for over a year now.
As a result, you can imagine the arms race that could start for rights fees...good for a seller like the C7. Fox is reportedly about to drop $6.5billion on the Dodger rights here in Los Angeles. Bad for the consumer who will be paying for this in MUCH higher cable and satellite fees (cue up Benny B). This is why I kept saying the last few weeks it's all about who owns the rights, not the technology to deliver it. You have to find a way to monetize the amount of money in play here, and that means a known source of revenue. A la carte doesn't give you known sources of revenue so get ready to open up your wallets fellas, but at least you know some of it is going back to MU. :D
Sports is the king for live television because people watch it live. It's a revenue beast.
-
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-dDvUSRKeHbU/UGxYo35BNzI/AAAAAAAAANQ/CNzqGov6LUU/s1600/applause.gif)
-
(http://imgur.com/download/tcno6)
-
(http://cdn1.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/242082/buzz_medium.gif)
-
Screw the bread boys, I just wanna know if we'll see more of Erin?
-
Darren Rovell is a top sports/business insider.
-
12 years is a long time for members of a conference to be getting different levels of pay. I can't imagine some schools would be very happy about that over time.
Does Providence deserve more than Xavier or Butler?
I was thinking that too. And it really makes me think that we're more likely looking at a 10-team league than a 12-team league. After you take the C7 $35M annual cut, here's what you have left for the new teams:
8-team league: $6.67M
9-team league: $3.33M
10-team league: $2.22M
11-team league: $1.67M
12-team league: $1.33M
14-team league: $952K
Considering that right now Xavier, Butler, and any other prospective A-10 schools are in a league where they keep the lion's share of their earned NCAA credits, we need a lucrative TV deal to draw them in. Making more than 2 million per year might be enough to do that. I'm not sure making $1.3 million would be enough, and I certainly don't think less than one million will do the trick.
-
What about Gonzaga now that we have more revenue? We should be hoping the best hoops conference possible as the Big East was founded. I' m sure Fox would want one of the best hoops schools in the West.
-
This is good news, but I'm not sure I like the idea of two tiers of rights though. In the long-run I'm not sure that brings stability.
-
This is good news, but I'm not sure I like the idea of two tiers of rights though. In the long-run I'm not sure that brings stability.
Totally agree. Could breed Texas-like resentment as in the Big 12. Look how well that turned out. It arguably started this whole mess.
-
As a Butler fan, I would be really upset if we knowingly put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage (especially by this great of an amount) for a 12 year period. Schools like Providence and Seton Hall (who have neither good basketball nor a large TV market on their own) don't deserve to have more money than a Butler, Xavier, Creighton, SLU, Dayton, etc. People from those "outsider" schools will not be happy about it if that's the case, regardless if they're making more than they are now because they are already thought of as second-class citizens within the conference, and that is not a good foot to start out on with your fellow conference members.
Obviously if you get this kind of split, good for you and obviously I would take it if you can get it from your end. But don't think for a moment that this kind of thing won't breed instability and dissention from the moment these new schools join.
-
Split the money evenly. The two tier model will not breed stability or good will.
-
I'm ok with two tiers, but put a sunset on it. Say, after 5 years.
-
I'm ok with two tiers, but put a sunset on it. Say, after 5 years.
I can live with that. The C7 are the ones taking the most risk here.
-
I can live with that. The C7 are the ones taking the most risk here.
I'm not sure I'd call it taking a risk when they pretty much already had this deal in place before they left, but I get what you're saying. A sunset period would be more acceptable, but I still wouldn't be thrilled about it.
-
any one who wants an even split is a communist and a traitor to our university and country.
-
That is the most interesting piece of info. For those who said Georgetown was lukewarm, who you crappin?
Hey buddy!
-
I like the two-tier model a lot.
However, I would make moving up early incentive based. Base it off NCAA success,maybe a couple other factors and someone like Butler could be full share in a matter of years.
Except for Dayton, never give them a full share, if they make the cut.
-
I'm not sure I'd call it taking a risk when they pretty much already had this deal in place before they left, but I get what you're saying. A sunset period would be more acceptable, but I still wouldn't be thrilled about it.
Welcome to the board Dawg. While I can see your point, one does need to remember that the C7 have been second class citizens in every respect in the BEast (a league THEY created) for 20 years. My sense is that they'll expect to run the show as they see fit and that 'Take it or leave it' invitations will be issued to a select few, Butler included. Any invitee always has the right to say 'No Thanks'. But if one accepts the invitation, one agrees to happily live by the rules of the invitation. Dawg, I don't mean to be flippant but there's always the Horizon league. Never expect 'Founder' treatment. But that'll all melt away from the eyes of the general public and fanbase once you're playing.
Make no mistake everyone. The C7 will do EXACTLY what they believe to be in THEIR interest and will work to protect that into perpetuity. Schools like Providence and St. John's aren't getting crapped on ever again. If that means equal share, sunset, or life of the deal superiority, it'll be what the C7 decides in consultation with their advisors and TV partner. No invitee gets a vote.
-
It is pretty simple: The C7 can command the cash. The A10 just reupped and got $500k per school. The market has spoken, and if the +3 or the +5 teams don't like $2million more in their pockets, enjoy the A10.
-
I also have to imagine the C7 are fronting costs to start this league, hire advisors, have AD employee overhead working on this process, potentially pay exit fees, the list can go on.
I'd imagine the invitees would rather have a lower share than get a yearly invoice for the C7's efforts.
Great news to wake up to.
-
It is pretty simple: The C7 can command the cash. The A10 just reupped and got $500k per school. The market has spoken, and if the +3 or the +5 teams don't like $2million more in their pockets, enjoy the A10.
Yep. Put on your 'Big Boy' pants.
-
I also have to imagine the C7 are fronting costs to start this league, hire advisors, have AD employee overhead working on this process, potentially pay exit fees, the list can go on.
I'd imagine the invitees would rather have a lower share than get a yearly invoice for the C7's efforts.
Great news to wake up to.
I'd think they'd rather get the invoice but it ain't an option. ;)
-
It is pretty simple: The C7 can command the cash. The A10 just reupped and got $500k per school. The market has spoken, and if the +3 or the +5 teams don't like $2million more in their pockets, enjoy the A10.
But it's not that simple. The A-10 also allows their schools to keep the lion's share of their earned NCAA credits. So while the TV money would be a boost, even revenue sharing of NCAA credits would be a detriment to Xavier. Butler would only gain as they already left their credits with the Horizon, so this move should be a no-brainer for them, even if we go to 14 and only double their current TV rights payout.
I really think this is a way to divide the conference, especially 10 years from now if Providence, DePaul, Xavier, and Butler have similar NCAA fortunes for the next decade that they have for the past decade. If I were Xavier, I'd only be amenable to that if I got to keep a larger portion of my own earned NCAA credits. Sharing everything I earn equally and kicking up a couple million more to the likes of Providence? I'm not sure that will make them happy.
Putting a sunset on that would likely help, or keeping the league at 10 teams and going forward on even terms after the first television deal expires. But I just feel it breeds discontent, especially when we would all (C7 included) be seeing a significant boost to revenue if we simply went to a 10-team league and divided equally.
-
But it's not that simple. The A-10 also allows their schools to keep the lion's share of their earned NCAA credits. So while the TV money would be a boost, even revenue sharing of NCAA credits would be a detriment to Xavier. Butler would only gain as they already left their credits with the Horizon, so this move should be a no-brainer for them, even if we go to 14 and only double their current TV rights payout.
But that is a separate discussion. Media dollars to media dollars is not even close because the Dayton market cannot deliver like NY or Chicago or DC or Philly....cannot deliver MSG. And when the A10 gets more than 2-3 teams in the NCAA on a normal basis, let me know. That was the A10's gift to keep the Xavier's happy for the St. Bonnie's.
-
But the C7 is not the old Big East. Without Xavier and Butler, how many bids would we get annually? Probably not any more than the 2-3 the A-10 would get.
I'm not saying a disparity wouldn't still be a significant boost for them. And if we can keep a good chunk of the credits earned by departing Big East teams like Syracuse and Louisville, it will help everyone, but I think $5M per might be a big much.
If we go to 10, wouldn't the C7 getting $4.5M each be enough, allowing the other three $3.3M each? If we go to 12, drop us down to $4M each, and allow the other 5 to get $2.7M. It'd still be a bigger chunk for us regardless, and bigger than we expected had we stayed, but without giving them a pittance compared to what we get.
-
a little confused with the $$$ amount without knowing who's in conference. how much effect does adding 3-5 of the teams mentioned make? some on here are simply dividing the ~$500M out between more schools, yet a few weeks ago we read how the tv markets weren't going to be the big $$$ and we'd need schools with solid ticket sales.
that's where the tiered system makes sense to me. if the C7 is worth ~$500M, and the additional schools devalue the per institution value, it wouldn't make sense to add them as full earning memebers.
i'd just question if the $500M number is coming from negotiations in which it is assumed the top A10 school will be joining, or if adding them will add value.
-
I have a feeling that some of the schools are already "known" but are not yet official.
-
No doubt these sharing/invitation issues will be discussed at length by the C7.
Let me go a slightly different direction. Let's assume TV gets negotiated in the next 150 days and that Foxsports-1 is the winner and launches in August as I've read here. In that case, I'd expect them to insist on having immediate marquee product, namely BEast 2.0, beginning ASAP. We're talking huge dollars here guys. I just have to believe that somebody's checkbook comes out to satisfy the Old BEast in order to allow play to begin in 2013, keep the name and copyright/trademark, AND play at MSG in March 2014.
-
I also think that, with that amount of money, they are going to want product and therefore as many members as possible. 10 teams playing a full round robin is 90 conference games. 12 teams playing 18 games is 108.
-
I didn't realize that the network was already in 81 million homes.
This new network will have MLB playoff games on that network starting in 2014. Pac-12 & Big 12 college football.
-
Screw the bread boys, I just wanna know if we'll see more of Erin?
I would think so since she now works for Fox.
-
This new network will have MLB playoff games on that network starting in 2014. Pac-12 & Big 12 college football.
That's some pretty good company. Will they be broadcasting any NASCAR racing? Just wondering how many contracts they have left with the old Speed Channel. Not sure it'd help us that much, but it wouldn't be bad to carry over what audience they do have now.
-
Workplaces that have a two-tier wage scale do produce resentment. The invited schools that "accept" will be happy for a few years, but after that is when it builds. A sunset is a good idea.
-
This new network will have MLB playoff games on that network starting in 2014. Pac-12 & Big 12 college football.
See, this is why I *much* prefer Fox to NBC Sports. Fox IMO has a better understanding of how to promote a product and has a pulse on how to produce quality television. NBC Sports seems stuck in the past...and it's ratings are terrible.
Oh and we might get Gus Johnson doing our games.
-
That's some pretty good company. Will they be broadcasting any NASCAR racing? Just wondering how many contracts they have left with the old Speed Channel. Not sure it'd help us that much, but it wouldn't be bad to carry over what audience they do have now.
Does anybody have a link to a decent article discussing the conversion of Speed to FoxSports? I tried to google but really didn't come up with one.
-
It is pretty simple: The C7 can command the cash. The A10 just reupped and got $500k per school. The market has spoken, and if the +3 or the +5 teams don't like $2million more in their pockets, enjoy the A10.
Not exactly, because what we don't know is if the numbers being talked about assume some of those A10 schools. That's a big detail that is missing.
As I pointed out last week, the A-10 schools that folks are floating out there to come into this league are almost all doing better than every C7 school with the exception of us and Georgetown.
Also, the A10 deal is brought down on a per school basis because of the number of schools they have and the dregs at the bottom of their league.
-
Yep. Put on your 'Big Boy' pants.
Have to wonder how many MU fans here would be saying this if we were the ones being shorted? The posts would write themselves how unfair it is, and how the conference can go "f themselves", etc, etc. :o
-
That's some pretty good company. Will they be broadcasting any NASCAR racing? Just wondering how many contracts they have left with the old Speed Channel. Not sure it'd help us that much, but it wouldn't be bad to carry over what audience they do have now.
I don't believe SPEED had any actual races anymore. Just 'Raceday' pre/post race shows and qualifying. They also lost the F-1 contract a couple months ago, so they don't have much left.
-
I have a feeling that some of the schools are already "known" but are not yet official.
Yep, otherwise there'd be no way we'd have that big of a TV bid.
-
Does anybody have a link to a decent article discussing the conversion of Speed to FoxSports? I tried to google but really didn't come up with one.
I posted one last night to some extent, problem is that none of it is official so you aren't going to find much, if anything on this. It's all speculation in the public sphere right now. Look at the first response I gave, there's a link there.
-
Have to wonder how many MU fans here would be saying this if we were the ones being shorted? The posts would write themselves how unfair it is, and how the conference can go "f themselves", etc, etc. :o
Yep. It's all a matter of perspective Chicos.
-
As a Butler fan, I would be really upset if we knowingly put ourselves at a competitive disadvantage (especially by this great of an amount) for a 12 year period. Schools like Providence and Seton Hall (who have neither good basketball nor a large TV market on their own) don't deserve to have more money than a Butler, Xavier, Creighton, SLU, Dayton, etc. People from those "outsider" schools will not be happy about it if that's the case, regardless if they're making more than they are now because they are already thought of as scandals citizens within the conference, and that is not a good foot to start out on with your fellow conference members.
Obviously if you get this kind of split, good for you and obviously I would take it if you can get it from your end. But don't think for a moment that this kind of thing won't breed instability and dissention from the moment these new schools join.
As an MU grad I agree. Gonzalo, Butler and X bring in a very strong programs. Let's not get greedy and sour the milk. As Ben Franklin said either we all hang together or We'll all hang separately.
-
I posted one last night to some extent, problem is that none of it is official so you aren't going to find much, if anything on this. It's all speculation in the public sphere right now. Look at the first response I gave, there's a link there.
Maybe I misspoke. I was talking about the overall creation of Fox Sports 1 out of the ashes of Speed. Frankly, I had not known. I did find this:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1423414-fox-sports-one-what-the-upcoming-all-sports-network-could-mean-for-the-ufc
-
Not exactly, because what we don't know is if the numbers being talked about assume some of those A10 schools. That's a big detail that is missing.
As I pointed out last week, the A-10 schools that folks are floating out there to come into this league are almost all doing better than every C7 school with the exception of us and Georgetown.
Also, the A10 deal is brought down on a per school basis because of the number of schools they have and the dregs at the bottom of their league.
Nonsense. Are they doing better at delivering TV markets or brand value? Come on...the A10 teams can stay where they are if they can get a better deal. The media companies are paying for the BE. Period. The A10 makes a concession to the Xavier's of their world by giving the them more of the NCAA credits because the rest of the brand is low major. Free market...if the A10 schools don't like the deal, stay we're they are at...simple as that. If they were so valuable as a media market, it would have been reflected in their new media deal just inked.
-
Have to wonder how many MU fans here would be saying this if we were the ones being shorted? The posts would write themselves how unfair it is, and how the conference can go "f themselves", etc, etc. :o
How fair is it that DePaul cashed our NCAA credit checks each year?
-
as fair as us cashing UCONNs
-
as fair as us cashing UCONNs
Yeah, LW is banking on that UCONN check from this year.
-
Have to wonder how many MU fans here would be saying this if we were the ones being shorted? The posts would write themselves how unfair it is, and how the conference can go "f themselves", etc, etc. :o
Depends on who you're talking about. If you're Butler, this is a no-brainer decision, even if you're making less. They just left all their NCAA credits behind in the Horizon and get a reduced share in the A-10. Come to the New Big East and you'll get more money in NCAA credits and make at least 3-4 times as much in television revenue. Going forward you may not keep as much of future earned NCAA credits, but sharing with schools like Marquette, Georgetown, and Villanova (assuming they right the ship) should more than offset that. Regardless, Butler fans should see that this move for them would be nothing but benefit, even if they're taking a lesser cut.
For Xavier, it's not so easy. They make a ton in NCAA credits. Leaving those behind won't be easy, and I think we need to be able to offer them a lot to offset that. Tripling their television revenue probably won't be enough, unless they value the added exposure that much. Multiply what they are making by fivefold and it might be a different story since they too will be sharing NCAA credits with us. But as a Xavier fan, I'm not sure I'd be happy to leave just to break even.
VCU is in the same boat as Butler. No-brainer if offered. Dayton and St. Louis don't have enough NCAA credits to have the same financial vestment in the A-10 that Xavier does, so I'm sure leaving would be an easy decision for them, and I'd hope their fans appreciate how much of a revenue boost they'd get from this. Gonzaga could finally stop sharing checks with the WCC when they are making pretty much all the money. If the travel costs make sense, it's an easy choice. That's a big if, however.
Really, the only school that might have pause with this is Xavier. No one else has the investment in a tiered scale like they do with the A-10. But I'm guessing whatever the deal, they are on board. I find it hard to believe we'd be getting that kind of deal without the network knowing Xavier and Butler were in the mix, and honestly, that much money makes me think Gonzaga might be a go as well.
-
Nonsense.The media companies are paying for the BE. Period.
I'm with the good doctor here. Fox Sports 1 is seemingly convinced that BEast 2.0 can be a flagship product. It's core is the C7, MSG, the BEast name, etc. THAT just got priced. Xavier and Butler just got priced too. But no doubt this is a situation where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. So Xavier/Butler get a nice raise. I do understand Brew's discussion about the value of NCAA credits. But I don't recall many teams being invited to a significantly more prestigious conference turning down that invitation. Butler is an excellent example as recently as 2012. They left their credits behind.
-
This new network will have MLB playoff games on that network starting in 2014. Pac-12 & Big 12 college football.
One other positive to this: from a scheduling perspective, this may make it easier to broker a conference series between the New Big East and either Pac-12 or Big 12. If Fox has deals in place with them, it could grease the wheels to have all of our teams play one of those league's top-10 (or 12) every year. I'd prefer the Big 12 as they are a much better basketball league, but if Gonzaga is in, it might be nice to let them play a Pac-12 opponent every year.
-
One other positive to this: from a scheduling perspective, this may make it easier to broker a conference series between the New Big East and either Pac-12 or Big 12. If Fox has deals in place with them, it could grease the wheels to have all of our teams play one of those league's top-10 (or 12) every year. I'd prefer the Big 12 as they are a much better basketball league, but if Gonzaga is in, it might be nice to let them play a Pac-12 opponent every year.
Good idea. I can see the advertising now during football games. Launch vehicle for their valuable brands.
-
Also one thing we glossed over with the tiered hypothesis was the C7 would pay the other schools' exit fees, future credits, legal bills, etc. with their BE windfall to make them whole.
-
I would think so since she now works for Fox.
Yes, but so does Joe Buck.
-
Nonsense. Are they doing better at delivering TV markets or brand value? Come on...the A10 teams can stay where they are if they can get a better deal. The media companies are paying for the BE. Period. The A10 makes a concession to the Xavier's of their world by giving the them more of the NCAA credits because the rest of the brand is low major. Free market...if the A10 schools don't like the deal, stay we're they are at...simple as that. If they were so valuable as a media market, it would have been reflected in their new media deal just inked.
+Lots
If some of the A-10 schools want to cut off their nose to spite their face, let 'em. Bottom line, 3-5 teams out there will be getting invites to the new league. If Xavier, for example, wants to stay in a lesser league in lesser markets with a far smaller TV deal that gives them much less exposure because they think the C7 is being oh so unfair, they can.
But I doubt very much they will. Because playing Marquette, Georgetown, St. John's, etc. with $2 million TV revenue is a heckuva lot better than playing Fordham, George Washington and Duquesne for $500,000.
The argument about Xavier leaving their credits behind is shortsighted. Yes, it's a lot of money to be leaving behind. But that's a short-term hit that's got to be weighed against the long-term benefits of being the member of a new conference that's going to command better TV deals, more exposure, more stability (knock on wood), etc.
And as a Xavier fan, why would I care about the credits? What fan is sitting in Cincy right now saying, "Yeah, I'll be buying season tickets for a schedule headlined St. Joe's, Fordham and St. Bonnies, but at least we'd have those credits!"
-
In what Universe does DuhPaul deserve $5 mill a year?? $5 a year MAYBE.
-
At $2.5M it's a 486% raise, with undoubtedly more ticket revenue and brand recognition as well, the C7's BE exit fee cash wad takes care of their exit fees and maybe makes up X's shortfall. So not getting an extra $1-$1.5M that makes it even is unfair? Now they'd be the greedy ones. And instability? Ha...what would they do, leave for 1/5 the pay? It may not be even, but the work is done for them and the situation is a gift.
-
Somebody has to lose basketball games for someone to win it. Gotta subsidize the losers so that they still win 8-10 OOC games to keep that RPI up for their league play curb stomping.
-
Aren't most of these 2 tiered approaches only for a specific period of time? I thought I read somewhere that's how the ACC was bringing in teams. As in X and Butler might only get a smaller share for the first 5 years. As long as you know once you pay your dues you'll have a full seat at the table I don't see where the instability would creep in.
-
Aren't most of these 2 tiered approaches only for a specific period of time? I thought I read somewhere that's how the ACC was bringing in teams. As in X and Butler might only get a smaller share for the first 5 years. As long as you know once you pay your dues you'll have a full seat at the table I don't see where the instability would creep in.
Yeah, the Big Ten's new members have a scale before they get full shares. I am pretty sure this is going to be the case here too. The more I think about this, the more I think this really isn't that big of a deal.
-
In what Universe does DuhPaul deserve $5 mill a year?? $5 a year MAYBE.
This one: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2008/09/10/nielsen-local-television-market-universe-estimates/5037/
It really appears, again if true, that the BE basketball schools were undervalued by the BE football schools....even before the announced C7 break away, the best the basketball schools were being talked about in any media deal was maybe a $500k increase...if that...and now it is double. Competition and timing of the split was the Perfect Storm.
-
In what Universe does DuhPaul deserve $5 mill a year?? $5 a year MAYBE.
Am I the only one sick of this whole "DuhPaul" thing that is going on constantly? I realize people don't like their lack of success, but if not for "DuhPaul", we never would have been invited to the Great Midwest back in 1991. Consequently, we also probably wouldn't have been part of the C-USA setup a few years after that, and never would have been admitted to the Big East.
20 years and change ago, our program was absolutely down in the dumps, arguably lower than where DePaul is now, and because of our association with them, we were able to build up to where we're at right now. I think we owe them the same benefit right now while their program has taken a turn towards the depths we were at back in the late 1980s.
Without DePaul, we're probably UW-Milwaukee's punching bag, assuming we even still have a D1 basketball team. They deserve our thanks and patience, not our mockery. And it's not just you, guru, just tired of seeing it constantly these past few months. For any Marquette fans, DePaul deserves everything they're getting and then some.
-
Without DePaul, we're probably UW-Milwaukee's punching bag, assuming we even still have a D1 basketball team. They deserve our thanks and patience, not our mockery. And it's not just you, guru, just tired of seeing it constantly these past few months. For any Marquette fans, DePaul deserves everything they're getting and then some.
Since Marquette decided some time ago to put more resources in b-ball I don't think we would have sunk too low but I do agree that the C7 has to stick together.
Just because DePaul and Providence are down now doesn't mean it will stay that way forever. Let's not be like Badger fans and pretend basketball started in 2000. All of the C7 schools have had success for sustained periods in the past. This new media deal could really help all of the programs that are a bit down right now.
-
Nonsense. Are they doing better at delivering TV markets or brand value? Come on...the A10 teams can stay where they are if they can get a better deal. The media companies are paying for the BE. Period. The A10 makes a concession to the Xavier's of their world by giving the them more of the NCAA credits because the rest of the brand is low major. Free market...if the A10 schools don't like the deal, stay we're they are at...simple as that. If they were so valuable as a media market, it would have been reflected in their new media deal just inked.
Again, you don't know this. If, and it's a gigantic IF, the numbers are correct none of us here know if that number is tied to a 10 team league that includes some of these very A10 schools or Zaga or whatever. Or are you suggesting that $500 million is tied to the C7...period...as you state? That is pure speculation, nothing more. If the C7 can get $500 million juston their own, then adding Xavier, Butler, etc should yield MORE.
-
Am I the only one sick of this whole "DuhPaul" thing that is going on constantly? I realize people don't like their lack of success, but if not for "DuhPaul", we never would have been invited to the Great Midwest back in 1991. Consequently, we also probably wouldn't have been part of the C-USA setup a few years after that, and never would have been admitted to the Big East.
20 years and change ago, our program was absolutely down in the dumps, arguably lower than where DePaul is now, and because of our association with them, we were able to build up to where we're at right now. I think we owe them the same benefit right now while their program has taken a turn towards the depths we were at back in the late 1980s.
Without DePaul, we're probably UW-Milwaukee's punching bag, assuming we even still have a D1 basketball team. They deserve our thanks and patience, not our mockery. And it's not just you, guru, just tired of seeing it constantly these past few months. For any Marquette fans, DePaul deserves everything they're getting and then some.
Can we still count them for two wins this year?
I respect DePaul, they will be back. One stadium away from resurgence, but it's okay to slop some mud on them from time to time.
-
Again, you don't know this. If, and it's a gigantic IF, the numbers are correct none of us here know if that number is tied to a 10 team league that includes some of these very A10 schools or Zaga or whatever. Or are you suggesting that $500 million is tied to the C7...period...as you state? That is pure speculation, nothing more. If the C7 can get $500 million juston their own, then adding Xavier, Butler, etc should yield MORE.
While we don't know, I would guess that if they have started negotiating figures, then both the C7 and Fox know who teams 8, 9, and 10 are. If we're going to 12, they may not know exactly, but they have a pretty good guess of who they want and who'll say yes.
I have no doubt that to get a figure that big, Xavier and Butler are definitely agreed, and honestly, I think there's a better than 50% chance Gonzaga is in as well. Part of the reason we made so much in the old Big East was because they were paying for two sports, and mediocre football draws better than good basketball. So if we're doubling our take-home, my guess is we're offering great basketball. Which means at least a couple times a week we have to be able to offer a game like Xavier/Georgetown, Villanova/Marquette, or Butler/Gonzaga. Which means either 3 great teams or 5 that they expect can regularly compete for tourney bids.
-
Am I the only one sick of this whole "DuhPaul" thing that is going on constantly? I realize people don't like their lack of success, but if not for "DuhPaul", we never would have been invited to the Great Midwest back in 1991. Consequently, we also probably wouldn't have been part of the C-USA setup a few years after that, and never would have been admitted to the Big East.
20 years and change ago, our program was absolutely down in the dumps, arguably lower than where DePaul is now, and because of our association with them, we were able to build up to where we're at right now. I think we owe them the same benefit right now while their program has taken a turn towards the depths we were at back in the late 1980s.
Without DePaul, we're probably UW-Milwaukee's punching bag, assuming we even still have a D1 basketball team. They deserve our thanks and patience, not our mockery. And it's not just you, guru, just tired of seeing it constantly these past few months. For any Marquette fans, DePaul deserves everything they're getting and then some.
Agree wholeheartedly.
Also, people are foolish if they think the C7's value doesn't take a nose dive without a presence in the country's third-largest media market, or without the country's largest Catholic school in the fold.
-
Agree wholeheartedly.
Also, people are foolish if they think the C7's value doesn't take a nose dive without a presence in the country's third-largest media market, or without the country's largest Catholic school in the fold.
Marquette would be fine with them. MU is their own school. Fortunately they aren't DePaul. Ask their fans, or go visit their message board and see how tired they are of being, in their own words "A mid major". They are. You are what you act like. They don't want to stick the resources into their BB program, so no amount of money they bring in will change that, or it would have already. Their President and their AD simply don't care enough. As long as they are there, or one or the other, the fact is, things won't change. They deserve all the mocking they get.
-
Marquette would be fine with them. MU is their own school.
First, I'm assuming you meant "without". And we sure as hell wouldn't have been fine without them 22 years ago. Honestly, I'm not sure Marquette basketball or this forum would even exist if not for DePaul getting us into the GMC. If it did, we'd probably be in the Horizon League dreaming of one day turning into Butler.
DePaul has earned their share of mockery, but let's save it for the week we have a game with them. Piling on all year round is tiresome and needless.
-
Again, you don't know this. If, and it's a gigantic IF, the numbers are correct none of us here know if that number is tied to a 10 team league that includes some of these very A10 schools or Zaga or whatever. Or are you suggesting that $500 million is tied to the C7...period...as you state? That is pure speculation, nothing more. If the C7 can get $500 million juston their own, then adding Xavier, Butler, etc should yield MORE.
Here is what we know...the A10 teams get $500 k per year. The market has valued them recently with Butler and their two NC appearances just jumping in. Here is also what we know, the C7 schools on a very old deal are getting about $2mm plus...with these reports saying now up to $5mm. Pretty sure one can assume the A10 schools are not the ones driving the inflation...especially when this news that says those who were just valued in the A10 are now worth five times that joining with the C7.
-
Here is what we know...the A10 teams get $500 k per year. The market has valued them recently with Butler and their two NC appearances just jumping in. Here is also what we know, the C7 schools on a very old deal are getting about $2mm plus...with these reports saying now up to $5mm. Pretty sure one can assume the A10 schools are not the ones driving the inflation...especially when this news that says those who were just valued in the A10 are now worth five times that joining with the C7.
Well, the thing is that I think the deal goes to the average. For every Butler or Xavier in the A-10, you have two Fordhams or Rhode Islands. They've had some success, but out of 16 current teams, you can only really count on Butler, Xavier, Temple, and VCU to be good. Of course, Temple is leaving (and I'm pretty sure the new TV deal anticipated that) so you've got 3/16 legitimately good teams.
While the C7 does have Providence, DePaul, Seton Hall, and St. John's that have been more down than up of late, they're generally on par with the mid-level A-10 teams like Dayton, St. Louis, St. Joe's, and Richmond. So with the A-10 let's say you regularly have 4 good teams, 4 decent teams, and 8 bad teams. In the new league, you'll have 6 good teams and 4 decent teams, or maybe 7 good teams and 5 decent teams. Sure, the C7 may be responsible for about half of those good teams, but it's also responsible for 80-100% of the lower tier, or "decent" teams.
I have no doubt that while we are driving the bus, the teams we are partnering up with are bringing a lot of credit to that deal. Because regardless of the markets, Fox isn't paying half-a-billion dollars to broadcast DePaul v Providence as their marquee weeknight game.
-
Marquette would be fine with them. MU is their own school. Fortunately they aren't DePaul. Ask their fans, or go visit their message board and see how tired they are of being, in their own words "A mid major". They are. You are what you act like. They don't want to stick the resources into their BB program, so no amount of money they bring in will change that, or it would have already. Their President and their AD simply don't care enough. As long as they are there, or one or the other, the fact is, things won't change. They deserve all the mocking they get.
This actually isn't all that true. DePaul invests fairly significantly in their program, just not all that wisely or effectively.
Oliver Purnell reportedly makes about $1.8 million a year, which would put him in the top 20-25 coaches in the country.
And, according to Forbes' numbers (which, yes, I know, can't be counted upon for 100 percent accuracy because different schools account differently) DePaul spent $6.5 million on its basketball program in 2010, sixth most in the big East, including more than Nova, Notre Dame, Pitt and West Virginia.
There's no evidence the president or AD don't care.
-
This actually isn't all that true. DePaul invests fairly significantly in their program, just not all that wisely of effectively.
Oliver Purnell reportedly makes about $1.8 million a year, which would put him in the top 20-25 coaches in the country.
And, according to Forbes' numbers (which, yes, I know, can't be counted upon for 100 percent accuracy because different schools account differently) DePaul spent $6.5 million on its basketball program in 2010, sixth most in the big East, including more than Nova, Notre Dame, Pitt and West Virginia.
There's no evidence the president or AD don't care.
Perhaps one day some* people will get it through their heads that the "program" is largely a function of the head coach - if you have a strong head coach, you have a strong program. Just because you spend a lot on your "program," if you don't have a coach worth a lick - it doesn't matter. Yet some seem to think that just because a school spends money it will have a good program. From your above post...DePaul certainly proves you can't overcome poor coaching hires (though I think Purnell was about as good as they could hope for), just by spending money.
-
DePaul's problems lie much deeper than poor coaching hires.
-
I for one plan on fully supporting all of our C7 brothers. If there is no visible light between any of us, we will all benefit. Sure DePaul is down now and sure we rode their coattails 20+ years ago. One thing that ought to be non-negotiable in this entire process is that the C7 stick together, decide their future together in private meetings where differences of opinion can be discussed and hashed out, and the speak with one and only one voice once those issues are resolved.
Providence and DePaul simply are not getting smaller shares or anything else that diminishes their Founding Member status. Absolute non-starter. Now might their ADs be smart enough in these private discussions to ever so slightly subordinate their individual selfish interests? Yep. But we'll never hear it.
-
Well, the thing is that I think the deal goes to the average. For every Butler or Xavier in the A-10, you have two Fordhams or Rhode Islands. They've had some success, but out of 16 current teams, you can only really count on Butler, Xavier, Temple, and VCU to be good. Of course, Temple is leaving (and I'm pretty sure the new TV deal anticipated that) so you've got 3/16 legitimately good teams.
While the C7 does have Providence, DePaul, Seton Hall, and St. John's that have been more down than up of late, they're generally on par with the mid-level A-10 teams like Dayton, St. Louis, St. Joe's, and Richmond. So with the A-10 let's say you regularly have 4 good teams, 4 decent teams, and 8 bad teams. In the new league, you'll have 6 good teams and 4 decent teams, or maybe 7 good teams and 5 decent teams. Sure, the C7 may be responsible for about half of those good teams, but it's also responsible for 80-100% of the lower tier, or "decent" teams.
I have no doubt that while we are driving the bus, the teams we are partnering up with are bringing a lot of credit to that deal. Because regardless of the markets, Fox isn't paying half-a-billion dollars to broadcast DePaul v Providence as their marquee weeknight game.
So under this scenario, SLU and Dayton are off the table as adds...and Butler and VCU were fiscally irresponsible for joining the A10 because they didn't receive fair market value by jumping to their new conference where they just helped get their new media deal done??? Look at what the Zags deliver in a similar conference scenario if not bleaker...and look at the A10.
Listen, I am a believer in equal revenue sharing because parity brings better competition and ratings. But, you just don't give away the keys to the estate to the new 22 year old fourth wife. It has to be earned with future investments and performance....not given given away without value being added. If Pilarz or LW would agree to this out of the box, they should be fired for not maximizing their school's value.
-
So under this scenario, SLU and Dayton are off the table as adds...and Butler and VCU were fiscally irresponsible for joining the A10 because they didn't receive fair market value by jumping to their new conference where they just helped get their new media deal done???
No. I think the hope is to add 3 high-level teams if you go to 10 and 4 high-level teams if you go to 12. Realistically, it may be adding 2 and 3. Butler and Xavier are obvious. For 10, I think Gonzaga is the next best team (but of course, depends on travel) with Dayton as the backup plan. If you go to 12, you add whichever of those two didn't make the cut and hope to get a VCU or Creighton but accept a St. Louis or Richmond.
And Butler and VCU moved for what at the time was the most realistic money they could get and increased NCAA shares. It was a good move at the time, they didn't know this would come along a year later. But under the circumstance, because they moved when they did, they have less to lose, making this move an even better one.
Listen, I am a believer in equal revenue sharing because parity brings better competition and ratings. But, you just don't give away the keys to the estate to the new 22 year old fourth wife. It has to be earned with future investments and performance....not given given away without value being added. If Pilarz or LW would agree to this out of the box, they should be fired for not maximizing their school's value.
All I'm saying is I don't believe this deal gets done at this level if we aren't bringing in some big names from other conferences. They should be compensated for that. And I'm also not saying we don't deserve a bigger share to start since we're getting the ball rolling. But if we go to 12 teams and the 7 of us are making $5M for the first 12 years while the other 5 make $1.3M or so...well, I can't see everyone remaining happy bedfellows for the duration of the deal.
-
But, you just don't give away the keys to the estate to the new 22 year old fourth wife.
I'm starting a rumor that Dr. B is speaking from experience. ;D
-
Honestly, I'm not sure Marquette basketball or this forum would even exist if not for DePaul getting us into the GMC. If it did, we'd probably be in the Horizon League A-10dreaming of one day turning into Butler.
Made a couple of corrections....and boom, Dayton.
-
Made a couple of corrections....and boom, Dayton.
And getting invited to the BEast 2.0 happily taking our fractional share.
-
At the end of the day, timing is what is good. Sports fees are out of control but that is a good thing for the new league, just as it was huge for the Angels last year, the Dodgers this year, the PAC 12 network, etc.
It is a sellers market for the leagues because Fox, NBC, etc need content and live sports is the only thing advertisers can guarantee viewership on in real time.
Comparing deals to the past are somewhat skewed as the landscape has changed. I'm at a conference this week and hope to get a few more details on this stuff. If the C7 are getting $500 million then the football conferences are wetting their pants at how much they are going to get next round. It will be so huge to make heads spin.
-
At the end of the day, timing is what is good. Sports fees are out of control but that is a good thing for the new league, just as it was huge for the Angels last year, the Dodgers this year, the PAC 12 network, etc.
It is a sellers market for the leagues because Fox, NBC, etc need content and live sports is the only thing advertisers can guarantee viewership on in real time.
Comparing deals to the past are somewhat skewed as the landscape has changed. I'm at a conference this week and hope to get a few more details on this stuff. If the C7 are getting $500 million then the football conferences are wetting their pants at how much they are going to get next round. It will be so huge to make heads spin.
There go my satellite fees!
-
And getting invited to the BEast 2.0 happily taking our fractional share.
Boo! Dayton's at the very bottom of my list.
-
Boo! Dayton's at the very bottom of my list.
They were for me too until I saw the numbers that Georgetown fan put up in the thread that turned into a debate about Marquette's attendance. Dayton may not be elite on the court, but they are a monster off it. Their revenue is larger than any C7 school other than Marquette (over $10M) and they draw more in attendance than anyone save us as well.
Add in that they have been in the top-100 RPI for the past decade and while they may not be a juggernaut, they're one of those teams that is solid year-in and year-out. My guess is if they moved up, you'd see them make the tourney with more regularity, maybe once every two years rather than every 5.
The guys at UDPride are absolute D-bags, but I think they'd be that fanbase we all love to hate and wouldn't bring the level of play down, like St. Louis would in many years.
-
With this kind of money being offered, one would think the additional teams have pretty much been identified. As has been pointed out on this board by several people, our TV partner will have a lot to say about what teams are added to the mix.
One sort of rhetorical comment/question on the new network. Since the Speed channel is typically part of a sports pack, I'm hoping the end plan is to move Fox Sports 1 to the basic channel tier for a larger audience. Especially if the plan is to compete with ESPN.
-
Equal shares after some reimursement of up-front league formation costs or MU and the C7 are no better than the football greedmongers. Let's not be greedy hypocrites. Also, let's give Xavier and Butler their just due for their performance over the last decade. From their perspective, the C-7 is really the C-2 plus a bunch of Daytons. How can anyone in good conscience not consider them equals? If the dollar figures floated in the original article argument are accurate, there is plenty to go around. MU and the C7 would be fools to do something (read: get greedy and not instantly make them equal partners) that keeps X and BU from joining.
-
Equal shares after some reimursement of up-front league formation costs or MU and the C7 are no better than the football greedmongers. Let's not be greedy hypocrites. Also, let's give Xavier and Butler their just due for their performance over the last decade. From their perspective, the C-7 is really the C-2 plus a bunch of Daytons. How can anyone in good conscience not consider them equals? If the dollar figures floated in the original article argument are accurate, there is plenty to go around. MU and the C7 would be fools to do something (read: get greedy and not instantly make them equal partners) that keeps X and BU from joining.
Who is the C-2? Gtown and MU? Gtown and Nova? There seem to be a big 3 to me, with Nova being a bit down currently, but they are a great program with a great coach.
-
Maybe I misspoke. I was talking about the overall creation of Fox Sports 1 out of the ashes of Speed. Frankly, I had not known. I did find this:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1423414-fox-sports-one-what-the-upcoming-all-sports-network-could-mean-for-the-ufc
Here's another article on the FS1 start-up. I really like the idea of doing a "soft" launch in August with a full-scale unveiling during the Super Bowl in NYC.
-
any one who wants an even split is a communist and a traitor to our university and country.
spoken like a true MU grad
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/mccarthyism-3.jpg)
-
Equal shares after some reimursement of up-front league formation costs or MU and the C7 are no better than the football greedmongers. Let's not be greedy hypocrites. Also, let's give Xavier and Butler their just due for their performance over the last decade. From their perspective, the C-7 is really the C-2 plus a bunch of Daytons. How can anyone in good conscience not consider them equals? If the dollar figures floated in the original article argument are accurate, there is plenty to go around. MU and the C7 would be fools to do something (read: get greedy and not instantly make them equal partners) that keeps X and BU from joining.
This point to me isn't about greed but good business as to what brings value. There are two parts of the buying brain: The rational and the emotional. DePaul brings in rational benefits with TV market and enrollment size. Those are worth a lot to a conference. Georgetown adds a lot on the rational side as well...but it also adds a lot more on the emotional side to add brand equity to a conference based on its continued success. SJU adds on both...with the emotional side being its history and location. Each adds value to a conference because media companies will pay for it.
Dayton has a strong, internally run athletics program. It is successful from a business sense for that school. But what do they add to a conference in terms of value? A shrinking TV market that already bleeds over with Xavier's? A great national following that adds on the emotional side like Georgetown or Gonzaga? Nope. Great for Dayton, not so great for a major conference.
SLU seems to add something on the rational side...not much on brand equity for a conference. If Biondi gets $5mm a year for joining, will he sweep it from athletics like he did from the Law School? Make them earn it for the conference. Why pay them $5mm when you can get them for $2mm until they prove they build their own conference equity? That is not greed, that is a solid long-term business model.
-
Equal shares after some reimursement of up-front league formation costs or MU and the C7 are no better than the football greedmongers. Let's not be greedy hypocrites. Also, let's give Xavier and Butler their just due for their performance over the last decade. From their perspective, the C-7 is really the C-2 plus a bunch of Daytons. How can anyone in good conscience not consider them equals? If the dollar figures floated in the original article argument are accurate, there is plenty to go around. MU and the C7 would be fools to do something (read: get greedy and not instantly make them equal partners) that keeps X and BU from joining.
<Imperfect analogy alert>
Let's say you were to start a restaurant. You come up with the concept, the theme, find a location, design the exterior and interior, create the menu, foot the initial startup costs, negotiate deals with vendors, hire a lawyer to draw up contracts, hire a marketing consultant, etc. The last thing you need is a few investors to get the restaurant off the ground.
Now, given those circumstances, would you be greedy and unfair by not making those investors equal partners, but instead insisting that you get a disproportionate share of the restaurant's future earnings to reflect your respective contributions?
Now, I recognize this is an imperfect analogy (see above alert), as Xavier, Butler, etc. offer more value to this new enterprise than simply a financial investment.
But still, the C7 schools are the ones that are taking the initiative and risks in setting up a new conference, bearing the initial costs, negotiating TV deals and sponsorships, hiring attorneys and marketers, etc. They're also, hopefully, the keeper of the Big East (TM) brand that adds value to the league.
All of this should be recognized in at least the initial distribution of revenues. To what extent, I'm not sure, but suggesting that Butler ought to be treated as equals in this regard - when they're risking very little and have much to gain - seems, if anything, unfair to the C7.
It also seems to work under the (IMO) mistaken notion that Xavier, Butler, etc. would be doing the C7 a favor by joining up, when the reality is the C7 is doing them a favor by allowing them to migrate from a lesser (competitively, economically and exposure-wise) conference.
Lastly, I don't think these schools turn down an opportunity to improve their programs (competitively, economically and exposure-wise) based on some misguided principle that they ought to be equal partners from the onset of this enterprise.
Down the line? Absolutely. Right now? No.
I mean, would you turn down a 300 percent raise and corner office with a view to remain underpaid in your cubby because someone else in your company got an even better raise and larger office?
-
Imperfect analogy alert: Let's pretend the Beatles were negotiating a record deal. The record company makes an interesting offer, so they call up Hendrix and Jagger and tell them that they are invited to join the Beatles, the record company will pay them all a lot more if they join, but they will get paid less than Ringo.
-
I mean, would you turn down a 300 percent raise and corner office with a view to remain underpaid in your cubby because someone else in your company got an even better raise and larger office?
This is what it's about to me as well. Actually, they'd be turning down a base salary that dwarfs anything they'll get elsewhere. With bonuses (tournament shares, ticket and merchandising increases, etc.), there's no reason X and Butler don't surpass Providence and Seton Hall in total program revenue since television is just one part of the package and they excel at the other parts. It would be silly to pass on a job offer that gives you a salary more than 4x what you currently make, increases your bonus potential, and gives you a better title simply because the company's founders who have done most of the work to date and live in more desirable locations command a higher base salary than you do.
-
Imperfect analogy alert: Let's pretend the Beatles were negotiating a record deal. The record company makes an interesting offer, so they call up Hendrix and Jagger and tell them that they are invited to join the Beatles, the record company will pay them all a lot more if they join, but they will get paid less than Ringo.
Except at the time, the Beatles, Ringo included, are all making about 5 times what Jagger and Hendrix make, and both Jagger and Hendrix would get a 400%+ raise to join the Beatles while Ringo would only get a 100% raise (albeit to his already more lucrative salary).
-
Imperfect analogy alert: Let's pretend the Beatles were negotiating a record deal. The record company makes an interesting offer, so they call up Hendrix and Jagger and tell them that they are invited to join the Beatles, the record company will pay them all a lot more if they join, but they will get paid less than Ringo.
Key question .... How much will Hendrix and Jagger make if they don't join the Beatles?
My guess is that if joining the Beatles means 400 percent more income than if they don't, they won't care all that much about Ringo's salary.
And why does everyone pick on poor Ringo?
-
Let's not be like Badger fans and pretend basketball started in 2000.
Thank you for one of the best comments I've ever read on this board.
-
This is what it's about to me as well. Actually, they'd be turning down a base salary that dwarfs anything they'll get elsewhere. With bonuses (tournament shares, ticket and merchandising increases, etc.), there's no reason X and Butler don't surpass Providence and Seton Hall in total program revenue since television is just one part of the package and they excel at the other parts. It would be silly to pass on a job offer that gives you a salary more than 4x what you currently make, increases your bonus potential, and gives you a better title simply because the company's founders who have done most of the work to date and live in more desirable locations command a higher base salary than you do.
And 3 years after you got your 300% raise, the gratefulness starts to ebb and you look at the guy who got the bigger raise and the bigger office and start thinking about how you're doing as much for the company as he is and that is when the resentment starts to build. That is why a sunset is a good idea. Need to think longer term. The C7 should be rewarded for their initiative, but not in perpetuity.
-
And 3 years after you got your 300% raise, the gratefulness starts to ebb and you look at the guy who got the bigger raise and the bigger office and start thinking about how you're doing as much for the company as he is and that is when the resentment starts to build. That is why a sunset is a good idea. Need to think longer term. The C7 should be rewarded for their initiative, but not in perpetuity.
Yep. That is why any revenue disparity can only be short-term...for the reasons that jsglow and others listed earlier in this thread. In the long-term they should be equal partners.
-
While it has been an interesting discussion, I think everyone needs to relax when discussing the profit tiers.
1.) No one knows how long they will be set for.
2.) No one knows what the break downs will be.
3.) The ACC and B1G are also following this model which hasn't upset any of those schools.
4.) The C7 are not likely to be looking to piss off Butler, Xavier, whoever else. I would imagine if Butler and X are as concreted into this league as it has been reported, they are probably on board with a proposed tier system.
5.) Can everyone just enjoy that we are almost doubling our TV revenue? Especially when a lot of people said we wouldn't come close to our current payout?
-
spoken like a true MU grad
(http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/mccarthyism-3.jpg)
A great American! ;D
-
5.) Can everyone just enjoy that we are almost doubling our TV revenue? Especially when a lot of people said we wouldn't come close to our current payout?
http://www.youtube.com/v/sZHCVyllnck
-
http://www.youtube.com/v/sZHCVyllnck
+1, money talks.
-
5.) Can everyone just enjoy that we are almost doubling our TV revenue? Especially when a lot of people said we wouldn't come close to our current payout?
(http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m5fda0D9D11r7wyi4.gif)
-
I'm starting a rumor that Dr. B is speaking from experience. ;D
I just bought a new a pipe and a bathrobe...
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/03/hugh-hefner-crystal-harris-prenup-playboy-founder-new-bride-iron-clad-prenup_n_2403577.html
-
Yes, but so does Joe Buck.
EA is the studio host for cfb on fox. Buck just does mlb & nfl.
-
While it has been an interesting discussion, I think everyone needs to relax when discussing the profit tiers.
1.) No one knows how long they will be set for.
2.) No one knows what the break downs will be.
3.) The ACC and B1G are also following this model which hasn't upset any of those schools.
4.) The C7 are not likely to be looking to piss off Butler, Xavier, whoever else. I would imagine if Butler and X are as concreted into this league as it has been reported, they are probably on board with a proposed tier system.
5.) Can everyone just enjoy that we are almost doubling our TV revenue? Especially when a lot of people said we wouldn't come close to our current payout?
Pac-12 as well. Utah and Colorado are not getting the same amount of money.
In the Big 12, Texas, OU & OSU make more money than Iowa State & Kansas.
-
Pac-12 as well. Utah and Colorado are not getting the same amount of money.
In the Big 12, Texas, OU & OSU make more money than Iowa State & Kansas.
Actually, Colorado gets a full share, Utah is staggered until 2014-2015....that's what was reported in 2010.
In 2011, however, the LA Times reported all 12 schools have equal revenue splits. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/may/04/sports/la-sp-pac-12-tv-20110505
-
CBB:
What is your guess here ... Assuming the reporting on the fox deal is accurate, does NBC Sports counter and the number goes higher. Or is this a lock-out bid and this is as good as it gets?
-
We will know soon what is and what is not a "fair deal".....if Butler and X accept what is offered it is fair to all parties involved...if they decline then from their point of view it's not......
-
We will know soon what is and what is not a "fair deal".....if Butler and X accept what is offered it is fair to all parties involved...if they decline then from their point of view it's not......
Yep. The C7 is not an established league and is based on the premise that 3-5 schools will join for startup. Smaller shares for "new" schools sounds far fetched to me. Need to attract strong partners.
-
EA is the studio host for cfb on fox. Buck just does mlb & nfl.
Right. And if the Fox deal happens it will be Buck who stays away from CBB and not EA.
-
You should probably take a report by ESPN on a FOX deal with a grain of salt, but if accurate Xavier and Butler will not join the conference.
Fox would then be unwilling to pay the same amount for a different inventory.
No one of consequence is going to take those terms on anything other than a very short-term basis. The new teams aren't being added for "numbers" but for credibility. These 1/3 of the conference teams.
-
From an X prospective I imagine we would still join the league. However it really should be only for a limited period of time to allow the c7 to pay off exit fees etc. Xavier is going to be marketed as a premier team and our games will be marketed as big conf games for the network georgetown/Xavier marquette/Xavier etc will be huge games more so than most of the other teams in the league anyway.
For me personally it's less about the money and more about respect. It would kind of suck to feel like second class citizens in a new conf.
-
Just a thought re: Xavier and other top level schools in mid-major conferences. If Butler, Dayton, and SLU join the C7, but Xavier was hesitant to leave its NCAA credits behind, wouldn't their analysis change on account of the changed A10 membership? Would they give up moving to a better conference and higher TV money in exchange for keeping NCAA credits and playing in a gutted A10?
-
From an X prospective I imagine we would still join the league. However it really should be only for a limited period of time to allow the c7 to pay off exit fees etc. Xavier is going to be marketed as a premier team and our games will be marketed as big conf games for the network georgetown/Xavier marquette/Xavier etc will be huge games more so than most of the other teams in the league anyway.
For me personally it's less about the money and more about respect. It would kind of suck to feel like second class citizens in a new conf.
So from your prospective, would you rather be the top A-10 team with mediocore to below par competition, or would you rather play in a conference with the likes of Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova and be known as "second class citizens" I don't think Xavier is at the level of those 3 schools, but i don't think they're that far behind either.
Your scenario kind of reminds me of Marquette when they left CUSA, obviously MU wasn't the powerhouse, UCONN, Cuse,Georgetown, etc were, but over time they earned the respect throughout competing every year with those bigger name schools. The payday wouldn't be too bad either if you were in the new conference.
-
Xavier isn't "behind" any of those programs
-
as fair as us cashing UCONNs
UConn's 2012 check to the Big East was $200,000 more (about 7% higher) than MU's check.
EDIT: In addition, the Big East is due $11.6M over the next 5 years from MU's tourney shares to date. Only three other schools - UCONN (12.9M), Louisville (14.3M), and Syracuse (13.4M) will earn more for the Big East.
As a matter of comparison amongst the C7 (over the next 5 years): MU $11.6M, Villanova $8.5M, Georgetown $7.3M, St. John's $1.3M. Nobody else breaks the $250,000 mark.
Who is getting screwed most by the C7 breakaway.... that's right: Marquette.
-
Just a thought re: Xavier and other top level schools in mid-major conferences. If Butler, Dayton, and SLU join the C7, but Xavier was hesitant to leave its NCAA credits behind, wouldn't their analysis change on account of the changed A10 membership? Would they give up moving to a better conference and higher TV money in exchange for keeping NCAA credits and playing in a gutted A10?
This
Based on everything that's been discussed in this thread, the only school that really has any reason to hesitate on pulling the trigger is Xavier. And I can't see how holding on to the credits is worth having an even lower payout when the reduced value of the A-10 comes up for renegotiation at the end of the current contract.
Ultimately, the C7 get a founders share of initial revenue and then say year 4 or 5 of a 12 year contract that sunsets and everyone is equal. They could even put in a performance clause in the contract that the sunset disappears sooner based on certain achievements within the athletic realm(number of tourney appearances, etc)
-
Who is getting screwed most by the C7 breakaway.... that's right: Marquette.
Considering the C7 has been said to be taking $42M or $60M in collected BE exit fee money with them, I think it's pretty safe to say they will also be taking their tournament shares.
-
I love the idea of joining forces with the Fox Sports Network platform. You get establish faces(EA, Gus, etc), cross promotion with other sports, proven content delivery team, and you can create cross league matches like B1G-ACC challenge that ESPN does.
This makes almost entirely too much sense. Also think this means we are definitely going 12 and leaving the BEAST after this season.
-
This
Based on everything that's been discussed in this thread, the only school that really has any reason to hesitate on pulling the trigger is Xavier. And I can't see how holding on to the credits is worth having an even lower payout when the reduced value of the A-10 comes up for renegotiation at the end of the current contract.
Ultimately, the C7 get a founders share of initial revenue and then say year 4 or 5 of a 12 year contract that sunsets and everyone is equal. They could even put in a performance clause in the contract that the sunset disappears sooner based on certain achievements within the athletic realm(number of tourney appearances, etc)
Agreed.
I don't think anyone is suggesting a permanent imbalance in the distribution of revenues, but the C7 schools deserve some added compensation initially for being the ones funding the startup costs, negotiating deals, and taking on the risks associated with founding a new conference. Making the new additions equal partners from day one - at least on revenue sharing - would be unfair to the C7 schools that are doing all the legwork to make this happen.
-
This is no different than a real estate developer or business creator. I'd expect the C7 to get more initially. For the sake of stability, I'd expect it to level out over time and for sure by the time next TV contract comes up for negotiation.
I'd suspect this reaction is a fan thing, not people that know how conferences and business work.
-
UConn's 2012 check to the Big East was $200,000 more (about 7% higher) than MU's check.
EDIT: In addition, the Big East is due $11.6M over the next 5 years from MU's tourney shares to date. Only three other schools - UCONN (12.9M), Louisville (14.3M), and Syracuse (13.4M) will earn more for the Big East.
As a matter of comparison amongst the C7 (over the next 5 years): MU $11.6M, Villanova $8.5M, Georgetown $7.3M, St. John's $1.3M. Nobody else breaks the $250,000 mark.
Who is getting screwed most by the C7 breakaway.... that's right: Marquette.
Maybe strictly in terms of ncaa shares, yes. IMO, the team that is getting screwed the most is Georgetown. Then probably Nova and SJU. Those three teams have way more history with the football playing members and their rivalries are, for the most part, dead. Plus, you have to look at the impact of attendance. Nova plays MU on campus most of the time IIRC. I think they will end up playing more games there than the Wachovia Center because they wont draw as well. GU received a lot of notoriety and because of it rivalry with SU. That is now OOC and prob wont be as big as it has been. SJU always receved a nice little bump in attendance due to the fact that they were located in the heart of the conference. I think the center of the new conference is more midwestern now.
-
Maybe strictly in terms of ncaa shares, yes. IMO, the team that is getting screwed the most is Georgetown. Then probably Nova and SJU. Those three teams have way more history with the football playing members and their rivalries are, for the most part, dead. Plus, you have to look at the impact of attendance. Nova plays MU on campus most of the time IIRC. I think they will end up playing more games there than the Wachovia Center because they wont draw as well. GU received a lot of notoriety and because of it rivalry with SU. That is now OOC and prob wont be as big as it has been. SJU always receved a nice little bump in attendance due to the fact that they were located in the heart of the conference. I think the center of the new conference is more midwestern now.
Yeah but you are comparing against things that weren't happening anyway. It's not Georgetown is choosing C7, X, Butler versus games against Cuse and Pitt. Those teams are gone regardless, Georgetown is taking the best remaining teams, adding some new life blood and excitement making a better deal than what they have. Nobody is getting screwed in this deal, the tide is raising all boats including DePaul, Seton Hall, etc.
-
Maybe strictly in terms of ncaa shares, yes. IMO, the team that is getting screwed the most is Georgetown. Then probably Nova and SJU. Those three teams have way more history with the football playing members and their rivalries are, for the most part, dead. Plus, you have to look at the impact of attendance. Nova plays MU on campus most of the time IIRC. I think they will end up playing more games there than the Wachovia Center because they wont draw as well. GU received a lot of notoriety and because of it rivalry with SU. That is now OOC and prob wont be as big as it has been. SJU always receved a nice little bump in attendance due to the fact that they were located in the heart of the conference. I think the center of the new conference is more midwestern now.
Understood... I was speaking strictly in terms of the tournament shares with respect to who is "contributing" vs. who is on "conference welfare." MU has been disproportionately paying into the conference kitty since joining the Big East, so barring some sort of A-10 model where teams retain the lion's share of their own shares in the C7+5, this is simply the price of success.
Believe me, in the grand scheme, everyone is better off in the C7+5.
-
Xavier isn't "behind" any of those programs
I'm not going to spend much time on this but here's a head to head comparrison on NCAA tournament success alone.
Xavier:
Tournament Appearances: 23
Final Fours: 0
Championships: 0
Win-Loss: 21-23
Marquette:
Tournament Appearances: 30
Final Fours: 3
Championships: 1 (1977)
Win-Loss: 38-31
-
So from your prospective, would you rather be the top A-10 team with mediocore to below par competition, or would you rather play in a conference with the likes of Georgetown, Marquette, and Villanova and be known as "second class citizens" I don't think Xavier is at the level of those 3 schools, but i don't think they're that far behind either.
I don't know if you realize this, but if the C7 was their own league right now, it would be ranked one spot ahead of the A-10 in the power ratings and behind the Pac 12. Though the Big East is 2nd overall, the C7 on their own would rate out at .5494 while the A-10 (including their dregs) is at .5440. The A10 right now is rated higher than the SEC, MVC, WCC, etc. These are based on expected finishes.
Most of the A-10 schools we are talking about adding to the C7 are doing better than the C7, at least this year. Xavier is having a down year and they are one that is underperforming at this point.
-
CBB:
What is your guess here ... Assuming the reporting on the fox deal is accurate, does NBC Sports counter and the number goes higher. Or is this a lock-out bid and this is as good as it gets?
You could see a bidding war, who knows. I'm not wired into NBC's stuff at all. I'm sure I'll hear some interesting quips this week at the conference. At this point, I don't even know how accurate the original story is and what does it include in terms of rights, how many teams it assumed, etc. So many unknowns.
-
I don't know if you realize this, but if the C7 was their own league right now, it would be ranked one spot ahead of the A-10 in the power ratings and behind the Pac 12. Though the Big East is 2nd overall, the C7 on their own would rate out at .5494 while the A-10 (including their dregs) is at .5440. The A10 right now is rated higher than the SEC, MVC, WCC, etc. These are based on expected finishes.
Most of the A-10 schools we are talking about adding to the C7 are doing better than the C7, at least this year. Xavier is having a down year and they are one that is underperforming at this point.
What's your point? It's one year... If you're trying to say the A-10 is better than the C7 you're f**** nuts. So far this year, maybe. I don't understand what you're trying to say. So because the A-10 is projected to finish better than the assuming C7, should MU go to the A-10 since it's obviously better?
Hope i don't need teal on that last part.
-
I don't know if you realize this, but if the C7 was their own league right now, it would be ranked one spot ahead of the A-10 in the power ratings and behind the Pac 12. Though the Big East is 2nd overall, the C7 on their own would rate out at .5494 while the A-10 (including their dregs) is at .5440. The A10 right now is rated higher than the SEC, MVC, WCC, etc. These are based on expected finishes.
We probably ought to judge these things by a broader set of criteria than the power ratings at the start of conference play in one particular season. Factors like recent success trends, long-term success, tournament success, market size, fanbase size, tradition, national profile, revenue potential, etc., might fit into the equation somewhere.
And, if it does, Xavier, Butler, etc. will compare their current conference mates with their potential conference mates and find the equation leans heavily in the C7's favor.
-
What's your point? It's one year... If you're trying to say the A-10 is better than the C7 you're f**** nuts. So far this year, maybe. I don't understand what you're trying to say. So because the A-10 is projected to finish better than the assuming C7, should MU go to the A-10 since it's obviously better?
Hope i don't need teal on that last part.
Did you even read his post? He said specifically that the C7 would be rated ahead of the A10. The cream of the A10 might be better than the C7, but taken as a whole we would be better than them and with them we will be a top league. Pretty sure that's what CBB was trying to say, can't really see how anyone would take umbridge with that.
-
Not much new, but here you go
http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Daily/Issues/2013/01/07/Media/Catholic-Seven.aspx
-
Did you even read his post? He said specifically that the C7 would be rated ahead of the A10. The cream of the A10 might be better than the C7, but taken as a whole we would be better than them and with them we will be a top league. Pretty sure that's what CBB was trying to say, can't really see how anyone would take umbridge with that.
In other news the sky is blue....
Again, not sure what projections at the end of the year have to do with anything relating to what conference is better.
-
I don't know if you realize this, but if the C7 was their own league right now, it would be ranked one spot ahead of the A-10 in the power ratings and behind the Pac 12. Though the Big East is 2nd overall, the C7 on their own would rate out at .5494 while the A-10 (including their dregs) is at .5440. The A10 right now is rated higher than the SEC, MVC, WCC, etc. These are based on expected finishes.
Most of the A-10 schools we are talking about adding to the C7 are doing better than the C7, at least this year. Xavier is having a down year and they are one that is under performing at this point.
This is like the whining that the B1G is far behind the SEC, B12 and Pac012 in FB. That they are the fourth conference? Wrong from a media and attention standpoint, they are number 1. Fact that they are 1-9 in the ten Rose Bowls and 4 - 13 in all January bowls is irrelevant.
Likewise the A-10's record is irrelevant. The C7 generate more media attention and will be a more important conference.
-
The Catholic schools voted to dissolve the BE. However, Im not sure that means that we can simply walk out the door with the tournament credits earned by UConn, USF and UC. My guess is that all of their credits will be given back to them.
If that isnt the case, then we can assume a lengthy and costly lawsuit. At the end of the day, how many credits will essentially go towards paying attorneys? They always win in the end.
I think the same goes for the accumulated exit fees. Those three schools will likely get some of the pie.
-
The C7 didn't vote to dissolve the Big East. The voted to leave the Big East. Everything from there on is up for negotiation...tourney credits, exit fees, etc.
-
The C7 didn't vote to dissolve the Big East. The voted to leave the Big East. Everything from there on is up for negotiation...tourney credits, exit fees, etc.
If we voted to dissolve the BEast, what would happened to the remaining teams in the conference that were unable to latch onto another conference? Independent? On a similar note, what does "dissolve" in fact mean in this context?
-
The C7 didn't vote to dissolve the Big East. The voted to leave the Big East. Everything from there on is up for negotiation...tourney credits, exit fees, etc.
The C7 has been carrying forward as though they have some leverage, but if they truly did announce that they were leaving, they have no leverage because their voting rights would be terminated.
Frankly, I believe one of two things happened:
1) The dissolution vote did take place as a matter of the C7 reserving its rights; however, since nobody wants to be bogged down in litigation, they effectively suspended dissolution (and put a gag-order on announcing anything) pending negotiation of departure terms.
2) The C7 did not vote to dissolve, but voted to suspend the bylaws in order to preserve their voting rights in the Big East until the "negotiations" are complete.
-
Yeah Benny, you are right. They didn't actually vote. I think technically they basically informed the Big East that they intend to leave the conference and are essentially seeking an amicable divorce.
-
This is like the whining that the B1G is far behind the SEC, B12 and Pac012 in FB. That they are the fourth conference? Wrong from a media and attention standpoint, they are number 1. Fact that they are 1-9 in the ten Rose Bowls and 4 - 13 in all January bowls is irrelevant.
Likewise the A-10's record is irrelevant. The C7 generate more media attention and will be a more important conference.
Never said the C7 won't generate more media attention or that it wouldn't be an important conference. I also disagree with you on the Big Ten being number 1...you likely live in the Midwest so you are getting hit by regional impressions. I would put them as a strong #2, however.
I'm merely pointing out that there's a good chunk of the C7 right now that needs to get their crap cleansed because they aren't doing any of us any favors. Fortunately, the A-10 schools that are rumored to be coming in are doing very well, better than almost every C7 school sans us and G'Town. We're going to need it because most of the C7 right now...to put it mildly...is lacking.
-
Yeah Benny, you are right. They didn't actually vote. I think technically they basically informed the Big East that they intend to leave the conference and are essentially seeking an amicable divorce.
However it happened, the C7 still holds all or most of the chips at this table. That's why this might happen sooner than we all think.
-
Never said the C7 won't generate more media attention or that it wouldn't be an important conference. I also disagree with you on the Big Ten being number 1...you likely life in the Midwest so you are getting hit by regional impressions. I would put them as a strong #2, however.
I'm merely pointing out that there's a good chunk of the C7 right now that needs to get their crap cleansed because they aren't doing any of us any favors. Fortunately, the A-10 schools that are rumored to be coming in are doing very well, better than almost every C7 school sans us and G'Town. We're going to need it because most of the C7 right now...to put it mildly...is lacking.
Agree...There should be some form of a contractual agreement comitting all the participating schools in the new league to playing High Major D1 basketball.
-
Agree...There should be some form of a contractual agreement comitting all the participating schools in the new league to playing High Major D1 basketball.
How would such an agreement work and be measured? Wins? Tourney appearances? Program expenditures? Attendance?
What would be the consequences of not meeting the standards? Relegation?
I mean, do you really want to leave the Chicago or New York markets because DePaul and St. John's aren't winning enough games? Think the conference's TV partners would sign on to such an arrangement?
-
Never said the C7 won't generate more media attention or that it wouldn't be an important conference. I also disagree with you on the Big Ten being number 1...you likely live in the Midwest so you are getting hit by regional impressions. I would put them as a strong #2, however.
I'm merely pointing out that there's a good chunk of the C7 right now that needs to get their crap cleansed because they aren't doing any of us any favors. Fortunately, the A-10 schools that are rumored to be coming in are doing very well, better than almost every C7 school sans us and G'Town. We're going to need it because most of the C7 right now...to put it mildly...is lacking.
First, could the offer by Fox be a move to screw CBS and NBC on their recent A10 deal? By giving the C7 enough money to entice Butler & Xavier (possibly others) to move, they deprive CBS and NBC the most marketable teams in the A10.
Second, would you expect that CBS and NBC to proactively sweeten their deal with A10 to give them funding to try to keep Xavier, Butler, VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, etc. in the conference? Or do they just suffer their losses and live with whatever the A10 turns into?
-
How would such an agreement work and be measured? Wins? Tourney appearances? Program expenditures? Attendance?
What would be the consequences of not meeting the standards? Relegation?
I mean, do you really want to leave the Chicago or New York markets because DePaul and St. John's aren't winning enough games? Think the conference's TV partners would sign on to such an arrangement?
It would be interesting, but you could do an arrangement sort of like the Premier League in soccer, but do it for revenue sharing. If your school doesn't go to the NCAA tournament X times in Y period of time, your % goes down. Something of that nature. Some leagues now have basement or entry level financial commitments as part of their CBAs, requiring that teams not free load but spend a minimum on their team payrolls. That's another way to look at it...minimum expenditure.
I don't know of any collegiate conference that is doing this, but it would be an interesting exercise. It would, at least in theory, attempt to hold some schools feet to the fire. Make them put some significant skin in the game in terms of resources and commitment to play at the highest level. I'm sure there are a number of downsides to it.
I'm just glad that if the rumored schools outside of the C7 come into the league, it's a good thing because we need the help. There's a lot of dead wood right now at the bottom of the C7 over the past decade.
-
First, could the offer by Fox be a move to screw CBS and NBC on their recent A10 deal? By giving the C7 enough money to entice Butler & Xavier (possibly others) to move, they deprive CBS and NBC the most marketable teams in the A10.
Second, would you expect that CBS and NBC to proactively sweeten their deal with A10 to give them funding to try to keep Xavier, Butler, VCU, Dayton, St. Louis, etc. in the conference? Or do they just suffer their losses and live with whatever the A10 turns into?
Both great questions. If I am the A10, I'm absolutely having those conversations BUT (big BUT) there may already be some protections in the contract that don't help the A10. Some of the contracts I've seen over the years on the television side for conferences have clauses in them when teams are added or subtracted which allow some remedies for the broadcaster. So if the A10 were to lose teams, it might kick in a provision already for the rights holder (ESPN) to reduce their payment. If that's the case, A10 doesn't have a lot of leverage because the rights holder is already protected. Again, no idea if this is in there, but pretty common for clauses such as this to be in there.
Fox and ESPN love to piss all over each other, though of late they've largely played nice...even co-bidded on some content. Lots of possibilities, but not knowing what is in the A10 deal leaves me hogtied to give you a concrete answer.
-
Never said the C7 won't generate more media attention or that it wouldn't be an important conference. I also disagree with you on the Big Ten being number 1...you likely live in the Midwest so you are getting hit by regional impressions. I would put them as a strong #2, however.
When all is said and done, I'd guess the ACC will be #1 and the B1G will be #2.
ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Maryland, Georgia Tech
Of those teams, all have either won a title, been to a Final Four, or been a #1 or 2 seed in the past 11 years. And NC State and Florida State are both very solid programs that seem to be on an upward trajectory.
B1G: Indiana, Michigan State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Illinois
Pretty sure those are the only teams that can claim that distinction. Michigan and Minnesota seem to be on the rise, but other than Purdue the B1G generally stinks.
I do think depending on who's in the league, the C7+ can be right there in the next tier with the SEC and Big 12.
-
Also Xavier tv money is different than the rest if the a10 because currently and for e past 5 years at least we have had our own individual and separate contract with fox sports Ohio. Every single x game is on tv and has been. Basically if you have direct tv sports package as most sports bars do you can get the x games anywhere in the nation.
-
Also Xavier tv money is different than the rest if the a10 because currently and for e past 5 years at least we have had our own individual and separate contract with fox sports Ohio. Every single x game is on tv and has been. Basically if you have direct tv sports package as most sports bars do you can get the x games anywhere in the nation.
MU also has their deal with Time Warner...UCONN and a few others with SNY I believe. That won't change other than to make that local deal potentially more valuable. Most interesting for X is the local deal is with Fox...which provides incentive to tie in their local with national properties.
-
Also Xavier tv money is different than the rest if the a10 because currently and for e past 5 years at least we have had our own individual and separate contract with fox sports Ohio. Every single x game is on tv and has been. Basically if you have direct tv sports package as most sports bars do you can get the x games anywhere in the nation.
That's what it's like being in Big East.
-
When all is said and done, I'd guess the ACC will be #1 and the B1G will be #2.
ACC: North Carolina, Duke, Louisville, Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Maryland, Georgia Tech
Of those teams, all have either won a title, been to a Final Four, or been a #1 or 2 seed in the past 11 years. And NC State and Florida State are both very solid programs that seem to be on an upward trajectory.
B1G: Indiana, Michigan State, Ohio State, Wisconsin, Illinois
Pretty sure those are the only teams that can claim that distinction. Michigan and Minnesota seem to be on the rise, but other than Purdue the B1G generally stinks.
I do think depending on who's in the league, the C7+ can be right there in the next tier with the SEC and Big 12.
Maryland should be listed under the B1G.
-
Maryland should be listed under the B1G.
If we are talking Basketball, yeah no doubt the new ACC is tops then a big gap and the BiG.
-
That's what it's like being in Big East.
Except nationwide, not just across Ohio.
-
It would be interesting, but you could do an arrangement sort of like the Premier League in soccer, but do it for revenue sharing. If your school doesn't go to the NCAA tournament X times in Y period of time, your % goes down. Something of that nature. Some leagues now have basement or entry level financial commitments as part of their CBAs, requiring that teams not free load but spend a minimum on their team payrolls. That's another way to look at it...minimum expenditure.
I don't know of any collegiate conference that is doing this, but it would be an interesting exercise. It would, at least in theory, attempt to hold some schools feet to the fire. Make them put some significant skin in the game in terms of resources and commitment to play at the highest level. I'm sure there are a number of downsides to it.
I'm just glad that if the rumored schools outside of the C7 come into the league, it's a good thing because we need the help. There's a lot of dead wood right now at the bottom of the C7 over the past decade.
I think the minimum expenditure route is the way they will and should go. Put bench marks around % of budget spent on the athletic department and some level of infrastructure spending, etc. Also likely a commitment to X number of teams in non-revenue sports.
-
If we are talking Basketball, yeah no doubt the new ACC is tops then a big gap and the BiG.
The problem with any of these types of comparisions is that the statistical differentiation tends to occur at the bottom--not the top.
If the top of the ACC is Duke and UNC and Syracuse, and the top of the Big Ten is Indiana, Michigan State and Ohio State, and all those teams are ranked in the top 10, then from a perception standpoint there really isn't that much difference there. Someone is going to go to the RPI or Sagarain or Poermor ratings, avererage every team, and declare a winner.
Which means the debate devloves to whether Boston College or Wake Forest are better than Penn State or Northewestern, which I think is an essentially uninteresting debate.
So is there a big gap? Not at the top.
When this applies to us, there there will be a bunch of statistical navel gazing around the C7, the perception of strength will be where our top teams wind up vis-a-vis Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, MSU, Indiana, etc. We may get bragging rights on our average ranking higher than a Big 6 conference, but perception will be whether we acheive the same top 10 ranking.