Hoo boy. All sorts of juicy nuggets in this one: http://www.marquette.edu/magazine/recent.php?subaction=showfull&id=1349369276&archive=&start_from=&ucat=7&
Nice article actually. Win with integrity should be the only direction at Marquette.
Penn State? Really? Penn State?? ::)
Quote from: PTM on October 18, 2012, 03:38:47 PM
Nice article actually. Win with integrity should be the only direction at Marquette.
This implies that we somehow WEREN'T or that Buzz is opposed to doing so. Not sure how these are anything but common sense statements that make it seem like we weren't/aren't until savior boy Larry showed up. Not a fan at all.
I think he really comes across as a bit of an ass with all the talk about how he was studying and his friends aren't doing as we'll as he is. Congrats on your visionary nature, now Get over yourself.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on October 18, 2012, 03:44:26 PM
Penn State? Really? Penn State?? ::)
Yes like didn't the Catholic Church messed up first.
Quote from: Jamailman on October 18, 2012, 04:02:36 PM
This implies that we somehow WEREN'T or that Buzz is opposed to doing so. Not sure how these are anything but common sense statements that make it seem like we weren't/aren't until savior boy Larry showed up. Not a fan at all.
Na, this is how ADs perceive that they have to operate in a post-Penn State scandal world.
Quote from: Jamailman on October 18, 2012, 04:02:36 PM
This implies that we somehow WEREN'T or that Buzz is opposed to doing so. Not sure how these are anything but common sense statements that make it seem like we weren't/aren't until savior boy Larry showed up. Not a fan at all.
Squirmy.
Under/Over 40 page thread...
I'll say over.
Quote from: Jamailman on October 18, 2012, 04:02:36 PM
This implies that we somehow WEREN'T or that Buzz is opposed to doing so. Not sure how these are anything but common sense statements that make it seem like we weren't/aren't until savior boy Larry showed up. Not a fan at all.
If our program was already doing everything by the book, why is their friction between Buzz and the ad? I think Buzz is a great coach, an even better recruiter and a solid guy but I still get the D-1 bball coach feel from him. He says all the right things but I think he let things slide with players and recruiting. May LW is over reacting but he does has a job to be the rule enforcer. Buzz can deal with that or he can head out. I think buzz will stay at mu and adapt.
You can't read anything but "saying the right things" in a fairly eloquent and comprehensive manner.
I've met this guy and he is smart, confident and really believes in kids and Marquette. Yep, it hurts that he is from ND. His family's education success is pretty unbelievable.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on October 18, 2012, 03:44:26 PM
Penn State? Really? Penn State?? ::)
Another ignorant KenoshaWarrior post? Really? You'd better believe it. :-\
No coach, no AD, no school administrators wants to become a Penn State. Good people have to come together and agree on policy to make sure that doesn't happen. It all starts with respect not with someone coming in and saying I'm the only one who knows what to do.
Very misleading subject line in OP
If we were Penn State, would Newbill still transfer to us?
Buzz scares the big brass. Nothing has changed in six months and the same issues exist today. Hopefully they are putting together a good list of possible replacement for Buzz.
Quote from: Goose on October 18, 2012, 07:27:18 PM
Buzz scares the big brass. Nothing has changed in six months and the same issues exist today. Hopefully they are putting together a good list of possible replacement for Buzz.
Define "big brass." The general consensus is that Buzz and LW have something going on... and an AD doesn't exactly seem like a big brass position. Maybe medium brass. Perhaps big pewter. Definitely not big brass though unless the BOT is diamond encrusted platinum.
Larry's boss, Benny B.
Big fan. Completely the right messaging. buzz needs to have a monitor.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 18, 2012, 04:05:04 PM
I think he really comes across as a bit of an ass with all the talk about how he was studying and his friends aren't doing as we'll as he is. Congrats on your visionary nature, now Get over yourself.
There is some of that, PRN, but I'm actually surprised that none of his kids went to ND. That would have been a huge "tell" for me. All that legacy crapola...
Quote from: Jamailman on October 18, 2012, 04:02:36 PM
This implies that we somehow WEREN'T or that Buzz is opposed to doing so. Not sure how these are anything but common sense statements that make it seem like we weren't/aren't until savior boy Larry showed up. Not a fan at all.
This
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 18, 2012, 04:05:04 PM
I think he really comes across as a bit of an ass with all the talk about how he was studying and his friends aren't doing as we'll as he is. Congrats on your visionary nature, now Get over yourself.
And this.
Regardless of intent or right/wrong it makes my stomach turn that this is happening in the press. How childish and frankly I expect more from the admin.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on October 18, 2012, 08:21:54 PM
Regardless of intent or right/wrong it makes my stomach turn that this is happening in the press. How childish and frankly I expect more from the admin.
Ummm ... yeah.
This isn't in the press. It's the quarterly Marquette Magazine. Chances are, this interview was conducted weeks ago.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 18, 2012, 08:26:26 PM
Ummm ... yeah.
This isn't in the press. It's the quarterly Marquette Magazine. Chances are, this interview was conducted weeks ago.
Doesn't that make it more peculiar?
Quote from: Pakuni on October 18, 2012, 08:26:26 PM
Ummm ... yeah.
This isn't in the press. It's the quarterly Marquette Magazine. Chances are, this interview was conducted weeks ago.
I stand corrected --- through MU's mouthpiece. If something was done wrong; expose it and fire the individual. This just seems passive aggressive.
I expect the steady "drip campaign" of passive aggressive crap to continue from Admin/LW. Even referencing Penn State in this article, and that even a coach of Joe Paterno's tenure and accomplishment - isn't immune from being fired - is setting the stage. What's ALLEGEDLY happened at MU and Penn State are so different, to even associate the 2 in an article is just silly.
It is going to be absolutely comical to watch what happens with MU hoops if Buzz leaves at the end of this year. Buzz's network is LARGE...don't think for a minute candidates considering the job might put in a call to Buzz and see what's up. At this rate, doubt he'd give a wringing endorsement of the situation. Goose's point months ago about us returning to the level of a SLU may ring frighteningly true. Have to be an absolute idiot to be handed the keys to a Ferrari program and trash it into a Kia.
Only hope I see in this is that the recruiting class Buzz has coming in, along with his loyalty to current players, along with his kids being 5-6 years into Milwaukee, and wife reportedly liking it - that those factors are enough to remain....and deal with a guy who was proud to proclaim he was studying and his friends aren't doing so well. The guy acts like he's a coach, yet he hasn't coached sh*t. Why didn't they guy go into coaching if he were such a great leader of men? Most guys satisfy their competitive thirst when leaving the game by coaching....not as an A.D., who has nothing to do with recruiting the players that make a team a winner or loser.
What in the H--- is going on with you guys. Buzz has brought MU to heights it has not been before since Al. "Tan Tommy" was a fluke. Buzz has not done anything wrong. (Not Proven) It's exciting basketball. Whatever Buzz has done wrong is heresay until proven wrong. Don't tell me SEC teams, ACC teams and some BE teams lose players or players are released by coaches. I think Calipari,Donovan and Pitino are the biggest cheaters. I think the biggest JERK IS WILLIAMS. Where in hell did we find this guy and
whoever hired him doesn't care for sports and BASKETBALL is the biggest sport MU has. Until some wrongdoing is done--just
SIMMERDOWN! PENN STATE, I don't think so.
Goose, i'm not up on my MU hierarchy. Who exactly is Benny B? Are you saying that LW is just his puppet and BB is the one we have to worry about?
you guys are making a mountain over a mole hill. This isn't anything to get excited about.
People love Buzz, but he's going to leave at some point, probably in the next two years -- let's just enjoy it while he is here.
And give Larry a break. He's a Domer (and I hate Domers) but he's our Domer and wants the best for MU basketball. And he came from the University of Portland... he's still got something to prove too.
Sick of the negativity here. Please let this season begin so we can start talking about basketball again... PLEASE!
Quote from: Earl Tatum on October 18, 2012, 10:03:38 PM
What in the H--- is going on with you guys. Buzz has brought MU to heights it has not been before since Al. "Tan Tommy" was a fluke. Buzz has not done anything wrong. (Not Proven) It's exciting basketball. Whatever Buzz has done wrong is heresay until proven wrong. Don't tell me SEC teams, ACC teams and some BE teams lose players or players are released by coaches. I think Calipari,Donovan and Pitino are the biggest cheaters. I think the biggest JERK IS WILLIAMS. Where in hell did we find this guy and
whoever hired him doesn't care for sports and BASKETBALL is the biggest sport MU has. Until some wrongdoing is done--just
SIMMERDOWN! PENN STATE, I don't think so.
Couldn't the same be said about posters like you regarding LW? He has done nothing wrong and has only said he is looking to make sure Marquette stays a school with high integrity. Anything that is said otherwise is heresay.
Quote from: JoBo2756 on October 18, 2012, 11:41:41 PM
you guys are making a mountain over a mole hill. This isn't anything to get excited about.
People love Buzz, but he's going to leave at some point, probably in the next two years -- let's just enjoy it while he is here.
And give Larry a break. He's a Domer (and I hate Domers) but he's our Domer and wants the best for MU basketball. And he came from the University of Portland... he's still got something to prove too.
Sick of the negativity here. Please let this season begin so we can start talking about basketball again... PLEASE!
If Buzz leaves in the next couple years, where is he going to go? Obviously it's pointless to speculate which jobs will be open, but there aren't too many schools out there willing to fork over ~2.5mm a year on their hoops coach. That ones that are, will be looking at candidates just as qualified, if not more qualified as Buzz.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on October 18, 2012, 10:03:38 PM
What in the H--- is going on with you guys. Buzz has brought MU to heights it has not been before since Al. "Tan Tommy" was a fluke. Buzz has not done anything wrong. (Not Proven) It's exciting basketball. Whatever Buzz has done wrong is heresay until proven wrong. Don't tell me SEC teams, ACC teams and some BE teams lose players or players are released by coaches. I think Calipari,Donovan and Pitino are the biggest cheaters. I think the biggest JERK IS WILLIAMS. Where in hell did we find this guy and
whoever hired him doesn't care for sports and BASKETBALL is the biggest sport MU has. Until some wrongdoing is done--just
SIMMERDOWN! PENN STATE, I don't think so.
This isnt even .0000000000000000000001 percent of what Penn State was. For Larry to even say that is tacky
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on October 19, 2012, 01:03:47 AM
Couldn't the same be said about posters like you regarding LW? He has done nothing wrong and has only said he is looking to make sure Marquette stays a school with high integrity. Anything that is said otherwise is heresay.
Nope - Other than either being directed by Pilarz, or on his own - taking the relationship from Buzz wanting to be a lifer at MU, to seriously considering leaving for SM-freaking U.
MU hoops is about to hit its pinnacle since the days of Al, and Pilarz and LW are making mountains out of molehills with regard to Buzz doing a 2-step after a win at WVU, and a few scrapes with the law some of his players have had with the law. Granted, no college students at other universities go to bars and DON'T DRINK, but hang out illegally due to being under 21. The occasional scrape with the law is par for the course at virtually every high major university, mid major, and D-3 university - because we are dealing with 18-22 year old men...which is the time most men get into a little trouble in life. Jesus. Even the amazing Larry Williams had some self admitted academic and defiance issues.
This article was 1,550 words. It is SOOOO Scoop to nit-pick the 122 words on Penn State, which is a HUGE story on how athletics can blind everyone at a University to what its primary mission should be, and largely gloss over this one.
"We are NOT de-emphasizing basketball," he declares. "I expect us to compete for national championships, and I believe we'll have the means to do it at Marquette, but there's more to it than that. We're going to do it the right way. We can be a beacon for what's good in college athletics."
How often do you think that LW brings up that he went to Notre Dame?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 19, 2012, 09:07:39 AM
This article was 1,550 words. It is SOOOO Scoop to nit-pick the 122 words on Penn State, which is a HUGE story on how athletics can blind everyone at a University to what its primary mission should be, and largely gloss over this one.
"We are NOT de-emphasizing basketball," he declares. "I expect us to compete for national championships, and I believe we'll have the means to do it at Marquette, but there's more to it than that. We're going to do it the right way. We can be a beacon for what's good in college athletics."
Whoa whoa whoa- why would anyone quote something that doesn't support their tin foil hat conspiracy?
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 18, 2012, 04:05:04 PM
I think he really comes across as a bit of an ass with all the talk about how he was studying and his friends aren't doing as we'll as he is. Congrats on your visionary nature, now Get over yourself.
I read a real sadness on LW's part re. his friends.
I was as big a believer in JoePa as anyone. Thought the guy really had perspective, but it is obvious now that he was bigger than the program. I think all ADs need to examine their programs with a post PSU view now.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 19, 2012, 09:07:39 AM
This article was 1,550 words. It is SOOOO Scoop to nit-pick the 122 words on Penn State, which is a HUGE story on how athletics can blind everyone at a University to what its primary mission should be, and largely gloss over this one.
"We are NOT de-emphasizing basketball," he declares. "I expect us to compete for national championships, and I believe we'll have the means to do it at Marquette, but there's more to it than that. We're going to do it the right way. We can be a beacon for what's good in college athletics."
Nor does it seem to matter that nothing LW said remotely compares the MU situation to Penn State.
Funny that no one seems to mind that Buzz stands before the press and repeatedly volunteers his story of camping out in hotel lobbies, writing hundreds of coaches and sweeping gym floors (I don't mind either, it's a great story)yet when LW tells his story in an interview for a school publication, he's an arrogant tool?
Pretty obvious some of you are going to twist your balls in a knot to be critical with whatever the guy does.
This is the first time I've seen Larry Williams... I had no Jim Cramer was our AD!
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on October 19, 2012, 08:56:24 AM
This isnt even .0000000000000000000001 percent of what Penn State was. For Larry to even say that is tacky
When people refer to "Penn State" in this context, they aren't referring to child molestation.
They are referring to a university culture that valued it's athletic program so much that the coach was given absolute power in order to keep the wins coming and the reputation in tact.
After seeing the Penn State's demise, other athletic departments are putting checks and balances in place to ensure this type of leadership and culture doesn't develop.
Penn State isn't a lesson is molestation. It's a lesson in a corrupt culture that
allowed the molestation to happen over and over.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on October 19, 2012, 09:29:58 AM
When people refer to "Penn State" in this context, they aren't referring to child molestation.
They are referring to a university culture that valued it's athletic program so much that the coach was given absolute power in order to keep the wins coming and the reputation in tact.
After seeing the Penn State's demise, other athletic departments are putting checks and balances in place to ensure this type of leadership and culture doesn't develop.
Penn State isn't a lesson is molestation. It's a lesson in a corrupt culture that allowed the molestation to happen over and over.
Yep. And I truly believe that LW and Fr. P are committed to the concept that Athletics should never 'run' the university nor is it the most important facet, by far. I fully believe Buzz wholeheartedly supports that notion. Lastly, everything I've heard directly is that our top Freshman is a darn serious and capable student and is thrilled with the opportunity to get a top notch education at a great institution while simultaneously striving for basketball greatness. Isn't that exactly what we all want for him (and the others) too? Wanna bet that the moms at MM where telling Jajuan's mom exactly that?
I understand the concern some have that Buzz may leave. However there must be checks and balances. Our country is founded on checks and balances. We may not always like what the courts do, senate, president, etc. but none of them has total power.
That is what is required in an athletics department as well. If Buzz doesn't like it then he may leave. I am sure there are plenty of schools out there that will give Buzz total control and the A.D. is just a puppet. And that is the type of school that is destined to be the next Penn State.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on October 19, 2012, 09:52:36 AM
I understand the concern some have that Buzz may leave. However there must be checks and balances. Our country is founded on checks and balances. We may not always like what the courts do, senate, president, etc. but none of them has total power.
That is what is required in an athletics department as well. If Buzz doesn't like it then he may leave. I am sure there are plenty of schools out there that will give Buzz total control and the A.D. is just a puppet. And that is the type of school that is destined to be the next Penn State.
Wait, so you're saying Buzz is a pedophile??
Quote from: Bieberhole69 on October 19, 2012, 09:56:12 AM
Wait, so you're saying Buzz is a pedophile??
Yeah, that is what I am saying. :o
No. What I am saying is that the type of school that allows it Head Basketball coach to do what whatever he wants is destined to be the next Penn State.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 19, 2012, 09:23:54 AM
Nor does it seem to matter that nothing LW said remotely compares the MU situation to Penn State.
Funny that no one seems to mind that Buzz stands before the press and repeatedly volunteers his story of camping out in hotel lobbies, writing hundreds of coaches and sweeping gym floors (I don't mind either, it's a great story)yet when LW tells his story in an interview for a school publication, he's an arrogant tool?
Pretty obvious some of you are going to twist your balls in a knot to be critical with whatever the guy does.
Buzz's is a Cinderella story, the epitome of the American Dream of something from nothing. And in every chapter the gratitude Buzz feels toward those who helped him realize it is palpable.
Larry's story (as he himself tells it) is of a gifted athlete from priviledge (Mater Dei) who suceeds on his own. The only gratitude he expresses is to himself for having the foresight and work ethic that his peers lacked.
They're both successful and their accomplishments should be admired but if you can't see stark differences in who these guys are, well....
"We're not a minor league for pro sports franchises,"
Apparently Williams is unaware that pro sports leagues do indeed bar high school seniors from direct entry. Thus, they have indeed put the pressure on the NCAA to be their minor league system.
Gag me!
Let's recognize the facts:
1) Marquette isn't close to being Penn State. Never has been and with the Catholic Church's recent commitment to the protection of our youth, it never will be. Given what has happened at Catholic institutions in recent years, our church is out front at making sure this does not happen. IT GOES TO EVERY CATHOLIC ENTITY, including those not graced with Larry Williams.
2) Larry, in case you haven't looked, our graduation rate among student athletes is among the best in the United States. I think even better than your vaunted Notre Dame. Our kids come here, get educated and go out into the world. Sure, we have our screw-ups, but that's part of being a pluralistic society. Our ballplayers are lawyers, entrepreneurs, engineers, teachers, dentists etc. We don't need no uppity Domer to mess with success. Have you checked with Ulice Payne lately? Or how about Bo Ellis and the work he has done? Or Dr. Jerry Homan? Or Glenn Rivers? Bet you have met him... haven't you!
3) Let's face it Larry, your beloved Domers were known by their football. You think 100 people from outside the State of Indiana would give a cr_p about anything Notre Dame if it weren't for football. And your beloved Domers were dumb enough to send a young man up on a portable lift in a heavy windstorm. I don't believe they're still debating that issue today. And we won't talk about St. Mary's, Larry!
Bottom line: Don't mess with Happy! If you have to, remember where the cash flow for your job comes from.
This thread got me thinking about the intersection between APR and RPI, does it exist?
I put together a spreadsheet and color-coded it for APR-RPI values from the 2010-11 season. While the APR numbers are not necessarily indicative of how good any University is academically, I think it shows some interesting trends.
It does seem that there may be some correlation (coincidental or not [which may be using terminology loosely - who cares]) between a schools APR and the school's success on the court.
As APR is a rolling 4 year, it might make sense to put together an averaged RPI for four years and see if that changes what it looks like.
This ain't scientific.
There's tons of other information not here.
- How much money a university dedicates to their program; academic support is probably better funded at Kansas than Alabama State.
- Overall academic performance
- Other sports APR
- etc, etc, etc.
Interesting bits:
UConn surrounded by a sea of red at the bottom of the chart.
Missouri State??? 39 RPI??? That year Cuonzo Martin led them into the second round of the NIT before taking off to Tennessee.
SDSU went to the Sweet 16, which was part of the 3rd ranked RPI.
If anyone wants a copy of the original spreadsheet to run more data, PM me.
Also, if anyone knows of better information out there, please post it.
Quote from: dgies9156 on October 19, 2012, 12:57:32 PM
Gag me!
1) Marquette isn't close to being Penn State. Never has been and with the Catholic Church's recent commitment to the protection of our youth, it never will be. Given what has happened at Catholic institutions in recent years, our church is out front at making sure this does not happen. IT GOES TO EVERY CATHOLIC ENTITY, including those not graced with Larry Williams.
I think people are too focused on the sexual abuse at Penn State. I don't think LW is stating if we are not careful a coach will molest someone. I think Penn State serves as a reminder of what happens when there are not checks and balances within the athletic department. For that matter, ANY department.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on October 19, 2012, 01:33:07 PM
I think people are too focused on the sexual abuse at Penn State. I don't think LW is stating if we are not careful a coach will molest someone. I think Penn State serves as a reminder of what happens when there are not checks and balances within the athletic department. For that matter, ANY department.
+1000.
Some of you guys are really fucking dense sometimes.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on October 19, 2012, 01:33:07 PM
I think people are too focused on the sexual abuse at Penn State. I don't think LW is stating if we are not careful a coach will molest someone. I think Penn State serves as a reminder of what happens when there are not checks and balances within the athletic department. For that matter, ANY department.
This is what I believe the point LW is making. Not turning into SLU, or ND, or anyone else for that matter. There is the ability to run a program that is successful on and off the court, and that seems to be his goal.
Quote from: T-Bone on October 19, 2012, 01:42:27 PM
This is what I believe the point LW is making. Not turning into SLU, or ND, or anyone else for that matter. There is the ability to run a program that is successful on and off the court, and that seems to be his goal.
I'd prefer he doing it without implicitly throwing his coach under the bus when he is interviewed.
Quote from: StillWarriors on October 19, 2012, 02:16:08 PM
I'd prefer he doing it without implicitly throwing his coach under the bus when he is interviewed.
What did he say in this article that implies throwing Buzz under the bus?
Where does this whole idea of no checks and balances at Penn State come from? The allegations against Sandusky made their way through the proper channels from coaches to AD to Vice President to President. Once they reached the President's desk he decided PSU didn't need that kind of publicity. Should all the others gone outside the chain of command once the President decided to not follow through? Absolutely. But the biggest culprit, the guy who let this stuff languish on his desk, was the head of the school, not someone in the athletic department. Lots of checks, plenty of balances, and ultimately one big cover-up in spite of them.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 19, 2012, 03:01:04 PM
Where does this whole idea of no checks and balances at Penn State come from? The allegations against Sandusky made their way through the proper channels from coaches to AD to Vice President to President. Once they reached the President's desk he decided PSU didn't need that kind of publicity. Should all the others gone outside the chain of command once the President decided to not follow through? Absolutely. But the biggest culprit, the guy who let this stuff languish on his desk, was the head of the school, not someone in the athletic department. Lots of checks, plenty of balances, and ultimately one big cover-up in spite of them.
Its a fair point, but the culture at Penn State was such that Joe was the king, and that's the problem.
School's are now ensuring that the head coach has a boss with (real) authority and a hierarchy that functions properly.
This isn't to say MU hasn't had a proper hierarchy in the past, but the topic is coming up with every school and every AD right now. I'm fine with MU commenting on it.
Can we just slap a muzzle on Larry? We're hearing way too much from him. This clown craves the spotlight...not what you want in an AD.
Quote from: Groin_pull on October 19, 2012, 03:13:24 PM
Can we just slap a muzzle on Larry? We're hearing way too much from him. This clown craves the spotlight...not what you want in an AD.
He was interviewed by Marquette Magazine. Obviously they *want* him saying what he said.
And again, he didn't say anything bad....people's biases make it that way though.
Quote from: Guns n Ammo on October 19, 2012, 03:12:04 PM
Its a fair point, but the culture at Penn State was such that Joe was the king, and that's the problem.
School's are now ensuring that the head coach has a boss with (real) authority and a hierarchy that functions properly.
This isn't to say MU hasn't had a proper hierarchy in the past, but the topic is coming up with every school and every AD right now. I'm fine with MU commenting on it.
I would argue that the problem was that the President didn't do his job and that nobody went over his head when he didn't. Ironic that university President's are acting like the PSU guy didn't do his job because he was intimidated by Paterno. Grabbing the moral highground because one of their own ceded it - go figure.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 19, 2012, 03:24:26 PM
I would argue that the problem was that the President didn't do his job and that nobody went over his head when he didn't. Ironic that university President's are acting like the PSU guy didn't do his job because he was intimidated by Paterno. Grabbing the moral highground because one of their own ceded it - go figure.
You're right. The president is definitely to blame.
What happened at PSU isn't all Paterno's fault. It was cultural problem that the school set in motion long before Uncle Jerry was ever in the shower.
When you start letting athletic success determine your moral compass, it's going to end poorly.
Schools are going out of their way to make sure this doesn't happen.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 19, 2012, 03:18:38 PM
He was interviewed by Marquette Magazine. Obviously they *want* him saying what he said.
And again, he didn't say anything bad....people's biases make it that way though.
I agree. He was sent out there to trumpet administration talking points. Along the way he revealed some things about how he views himself and the world around him.
Nothing bad, I guess, but some stuff that reinforces the fact that he's not my cup of tea.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 19, 2012, 03:41:44 PM
I agree. He was sent out there to trumpet administration talking points. Along the way he revealed some things about how he views himself and the world around him.
Nothing bad, I guess, but some stuff that reinforces the fact that he's not my cup of tea.
He didn't "reveal" anything. You are choosing to interpret his words based on your own biases and pre-existing opinions.
EDIT: Not just you Lenny...others are doing the same.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 19, 2012, 03:01:04 PM
Where does this whole idea of no checks and balances at Penn State come from? The allegations against Sandusky made their way through the proper channels from coaches to AD to Vice President to President. Once they reached the President's desk he decided PSU didn't need that kind of publicity. Should all the others gone outside the chain of command once the President decided to not follow through? Absolutely. But the biggest culprit, the guy who let this stuff languish on his desk, was the head of the school, not someone in the athletic department. Lots of checks, plenty of balances, and ultimately one big cover-up in spite of them.
You're right in part, but the problem is that while the official chain of command at PSU went from asst. coach to head coach to AD all the way to president, the reality was that JoePa sat atop the food chain. Perhaps not in name, but Paterno held and wielded far more power on that campus than the president or anyone else. Officially speaking, the president held authority over JoePa. And officially speaking, Erik Spoelstra has authority over LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade. In reality, neither statement is true.
It's obvious that the administration shouldn't have sacrificed a bunch of kids for the good of the football program, but the culture there dictated that nothing mattered more than the good of the football program, including those kids being molested. Football was the identity of Penn State, how it was known on the national stage, the biggest engine for donations, etc., and the Sandusky situation happened because that mentality was allowed (and encouraged) to flourish.
I think that's what has some of us questioning the mentality sometimes present here that says nothing matters at Marquette more than keeping Buzz happy, or that basketball is the "soul" of Marquette. Yes, basketball is hugely important and yes, the administration should make all reasonable efforts to keep a successful coach. And clearly nobody thinks Buzz or anyone else associated with the program has done (or will do) anything comparable to the PSU situation. But the mentality that says nothing matters more than a sports program is inviting trouble.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on October 19, 2012, 04:04:27 PM
He didn't "reveal" anything. You are choosing to interpret his words based on your own biases and pre-existing opinions.
EDIT: Not just you Lenny...others are doing the same.
So, when I or others who share my conclusions interpret his words we are biased. When you and others of your ilk do the same you're being objective. How fortunate for you and the other clear headed, fair minded people who share your opinion. Talk about bias....
Quote from: Pakuni on October 19, 2012, 04:17:11 PM
You're right in part, but the problem is that while the official chain of command at PSU went from asst. coach to head coach to AD all the way to president, the reality was that JoePa sat atop the food chain. Perhaps not in name, but Paterno held and wielded far more power on that campus than the president or anyone else. Officially speaking, the president held authority over JoePa. And officially speaking, Erik Spoelstra has authority over LeBron James, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade. In reality, neither statement is true.
It's obvious that the administration shouldn't have sacrificed a bunch of kids for the good of the football program, but the culture there dictated that nothing mattered more than the good of the football program, including those kids being molested. Football was the identity of Penn State, how it was known on the national stage, the biggest engine for donations, etc., and the Sandusky situation happened because that mentality was allowed (and encouraged) to flourish.
I think that's what has some of us questioning the mentality sometimes present here that says nothing matters at Marquette more than keeping Buzz happy, or that basketball is the "soul" of Marquette. Yes, basketball is hugely important and yes, the administration should make all reasonable efforts to keep a successful coach. And clearly nobody thinks Buzz or anyone else associated with the program has done (or will do) anything comparable to the PSU situation. But the mentality that says nothing matters more than a sports program is inviting trouble.
Well, if you're right that this thing went up the chain of command and then the president went back to Paterno for his instructions then I agree with you. I wasn't aware that's how it happened.
As regards MU, I don't think anyone want Buzz running a renegade or unsupervised program - but I've not seen any evidence that was the case.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 19, 2012, 05:18:30 PM
So, when I or others who share my conclusions interpret his words we are biased. When you and others of your ilk do the same you're being objective. How fortunate for you and the other clear headed, fair minded people who share your opinion. Talk about bias....
Of course not. We all inject our own biases into how we interpret information. You (and group of others) believe Larry Williams is out to run Buzz off and destroy MU basketball, the crown jewel of his new empire, the process. When presented with seemingly innocuous statements in the school's own magazine, you interpret them as Larry "revealing something about himself and the world around him".
I (and a group of others) who don't buy into the Larry Williams is an egomaniacal bumbling Satan-worshipper intent on destroying MU basketball bullsh!t don't have the same bias (we have others I am sure) so we interpret those same statements differently.
Who's right? Who knows.
Why would LW use Penn State as an example of people in power having the ability to sweep things (like sexual abuse) under the rug when he could use the Catholic Church?
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on October 19, 2012, 06:26:36 PM
Why would LW use Penn State as an example of people in power having the ability to sweep things (like sexual abuse) under the rug when he could use the Catholic Church?
Perhaps because Penn State is more relevant to an athletic director answering questions about an athletic department. Now, if Larry were a bishop your point might be well taken.
the cult of Buzz makes me really uncomfortable.
I see Buzz as a fallible human being who is a really good coach, a true spiritual successor to Al. I see Larry Williams as the unholy offspring of a mating between Bob Dukiet and Matt Millen.
So why was the last AD fired if everything is perfect at MU?
Quote from: tower912 on October 19, 2012, 07:10:40 PM
I see Buzz as a fallible human being who is a really good coach, a true spiritual successor to Al. I see Larry Williams as the unholy offspring of a mating between Bob Dukiet and Matt Millen.
I guess you fall in the group with Lenny then ;D
Not always, but I can't say that Larry has done much that hasn't irked me since he became AD. I continue to try to view everything he does objectively, because I don't want to have an irrational dislike of the guy that clouds everything he does. He just continues to do and say thinks that rankle. I just thought the Dukiet-Millen thing was funny.
But to the crux of Chico's article. Winning the right way is important. And maybe he believes that we need 5 years to judge AD's too. But MU lost it's way from a basketball standpoint once. There were mutterings as the program spiraled downward under Dukiet that maybe MU should drop to D2. A series of bad coaches and AD's can do that. Ask DePaul. Ask ND football as of 3 years ago. Ask St. John's. Ask Boston College. MU is fortunate to have recovered. A series of good choices by an AD brought the basketball program back to a high level. That guy has retired. A series of poor decisions by the current AD can, to borrow an overused cliche, take us to SLU's level. Or Loyola's. As a Detroit Lion's fan, I know what a bad GM can do. So, yeah, I sense a Millen-esque aura around Larry. Just like our former bailbondsman on our current coach, I hope I am proven wrong.
MU survived the reign of Sam Sauceda, who as an AD, made an ok foreign language teacher.
To me an issue that keeps on being swept under the rug is that the way the whole sexual assault incident was handled was done as per MU's institutional policy. Thus the failure was institutional, and not the responsibility of individuals. Those responsible on keeping institutional policies up to date with federal/local laws failed the institution. Besides the sexual assault issue nothing else is a major problem at least from my perspective. Everything else has been blown out of proportion due to the sexual assault incident.
Quote from: tower912 on October 19, 2012, 07:10:40 PM
I see Buzz as a fallible human being who is a really good coach, a true spiritual successor to Al. I see Larry Williams as the unholy offspring of a mating between Bob Dukiet and Matt Millen.
Dead right on Buzz. I fear you'll prove right on LW.
LW strikes me as the kinda guy who is book smart, can spew the proper quotes from his text book, flaunts his pedigree, but doesn't understand that we are all laughing at him because he has no credibility.
Quote from: real chili 83 on October 20, 2012, 12:29:49 AM
LW strikes me as the kinda guy who is book smart, can spew the proper quotes from his text books, flaunt his pedigree, but is doesnt understand that we are all laughing at him because he has no credibility.
I think you give him too much credit.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on October 19, 2012, 05:18:30 PM
So, when I or others who share my conclusions interpret his words we are biased. When you and others of your ilk do the same you're being objective. How fortunate for you and the other clear headed, fair minded people who share your opinion. Talk about bias....
Just food for thought, but it doesn't seem like there is a Anti-Larry vs Pro-Larry thing going on here.
It's more like "Larry is terrible!" vs "Larry seems qualified.(?)"
I don't recall anybody coming out and saying Larry is great and Buzz is an terrible.
Now, that doesn't mean both "sides" don't have their inherent biases, but it's something to consider when we divide people into "groups".
Quote from: MUBurrow on October 19, 2012, 06:53:36 PM
the cult of Buzz makes me really uncomfortable.
+1
What will this board look like when the inevitable happens? A silly little article like this hits which is actually very positive for Marquette and men's basketball and people start freaking out about nothing. When Buzz leaves in two years, I'll most likely deactivate my account as the foaming at the mouth and hyperventilating will be too much to handle.
Let's get a grip people. It's amateur athletics and haven't won a championship in 35 years.
Quote from: JoBo2756 on October 20, 2012, 02:55:59 PM
Let's get a grip people. It's amateur athletics and haven't won a championship in 35 years.
LALALALALA
(http://i.imgur.com/eIS6c.jpg)
Random thoughts after reading the article.
Article seems written to please a specific audience - professors and administrators.
Penn State reference was way over the top.
Reminds me a lot of dealing with uncompromising state high school administrators. The school administrators and members of the media who are cut from the same cloth like them very much. The public-at-large? Not so much.
A lot of politically-correct stuff in there. If you disagree with the overbearing tone that seems to come across, you're anti-kids and anti-doing it the right way. In a perfect world, MU would have 13 players who all get 4.0s, stay out of trouble and play in the NBA. But if I I have to drop one of those standards to a reasonable level, I'll take the GPA dropping to 2.5 if they're out of trouble and high-level D1 basketball players. The first one is great to strive for in principle. The concern of some is that we keep the GPA high in lieu of average students who are high-level D1 basketball players.
I don't want MU to be Butler. MU is in the Big East. I have no problem with MU being seen as the Villanova of the Midwest, a high-level basketball team that could win another title someday, with a high-level coach, players who go to class the vast majority of the time and players who stay out of major trouble with the occassional minor trouble that all college students seem to get into at times.
Also seems like a guy who tries to win press conferences.
Why is it the job of Larry Williams to decide what the biggest day of my life is? For some people, it'd be that basketball game. For others, it'd be getting married, having childen and graduating from college. But that's not for him to decide. It's my personal choice.
Change the names and the places and I'd hope this article could be written about whoever is MU's AD. The article implies that the background of Williams is one that's unique. It's not. You could write the same article about thousands of other equally-qualified people in the US.
I talked to the AD at Viterbo, an NAIA school in La Crosse, for about an hour a few weeks ago. His department has if I recall the number he gave me correctly 282 players in 17 different sports. I'd have more confidence in him running MU's athletic department and how it relates to the basketball program right now, and that's not good.
Quote from: Eye on October 21, 2012, 09:47:41 AM
I talked to the AD at Viterbo, an NAIA school in La Crosse, for about an hour a few weeks ago. His department has if I recall the number he gave me correctly 282 players in 17 different sports. I'd have more confidence in him running MU's athletic department and how it relates to the basketball program right now, and that's not good.
::)
Quote from: Eye on October 21, 2012, 09:47:41 AM
I talked to the AD at Viterbo, an NAIA school in La Crosse, for about an hour a few weeks ago. His department has if I recall the number he gave me correctly 282 players in 17 different sports. I'd have more confidence in him running MU's athletic department and how it relates to the basketball program right now, and that's not good.
I understand some people don't like Larry, but let's not get retarded over him. This is just insanely idiotic.
Quote from: PTM on October 21, 2012, 11:48:39 AM
I understand some people don't like Larry, but let's not get retarded over him. This is just insanely idiotic.
+1
I can't wait until the season starts and we start talking about basketball instead of internal MU politics.
Quote from: Eye on October 21, 2012, 09:47:41 AM
Why is it the job of Larry Williams to decide what the biggest day of my life is? For some people, it'd be that basketball game.
I had the exact same thought. I am married and have three kids. I can confidently say that if I had played in the NCAA championship it'd be the most memorable...and possibly the most important...day of my life. To say otherwise is a cliche. The fact that Butler made those kids go to class that day is absurd, overbearing and pious as hell.
Lets put it another way...was Obama's election the biggest day of his life or was it his wedding day?
One can always get another wife.
It speaks volumes about our AD that we have a 4 page thread about the AD.
Quote from: real chili 83 on October 21, 2012, 03:38:04 PM
It speaks volumes about our AD that we have a 4 page thread about the AD.
Actually, it speaks volumes about those that spend their time on here. It says nothing about the AD.
Quote from: real chili 83 on October 20, 2012, 12:29:49 AM
LW strikes me as the kinda guy who is book smart, can spew the proper quotes from his text book, flaunts his pedigree, but doesn't understand that we are all laughing at him because he has no credibility.
But he played football for ND, everyone knows back then football players didn't have to study.
Quote from: Eye on October 21, 2012, 09:47:41 AM
Why is it the job of Larry Williams to decide what the biggest day of my life is? For some people, it'd be that basketball game. For others, it'd be getting married, having childen and graduating from college. But that's not for him to decide. It's my personal choice.
In August before my sophomore year at MU I played in the championship game of the American Legion World Series. That day was much more important to me than my graduation (a foregone conclusion) 3+years later. But again, I never had my stuff together like LW. Had he been there to make me a better, more mature person I'm sure I'd see things his way.
Even using the Words "Penn State" in the article is trying to evoke a certain type of feeling. I understand what he means in regards to having to control a situation and having some recourse but to use the words Penn State just gives the average reader bad vibes.